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Old 09-01-2006, 09:50 AM   #16
Lascar78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie Outcast
Joe Johnson Needs to stay for sure
This is correct. He didn't shoot that well, which was very bizarre, but he did all the rest. He arguably played the best D on the entire squad (with Kirk Hinrich), got the ball moving, didn't hog the ball, etc... He needs to stay.
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Old 09-01-2006, 10:04 AM   #17
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How are you guys forgetting Battier? He played well and did exactly what people wanted: hustle plays and scoring without needing to dribble first.
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Old 09-01-2006, 10:12 AM   #18
Joey Zaza
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Could we just not send a team. I am extremely serious about this. Lets just not go to the WC's or Olympics, or anything else anymore. Or if we do, send a bunch of NBDL'ers, take the loss, and call it a day.

Why I am right -again:

I can guaranty at least one of Wade, 'Melo, or James missing 2-3 weeks in Nov-Dec due to some naging injury. That's bad, its unfair to the NBA, its unfair to the teams that pay their salaries, its unfair to the fans of those teams. Denver is going to be in a tight-race for a playoff spot - they don't need hobbled Carmelo until Jan. Don't beleive me, ask Duncan why he won't participate anymore.

For some reason Int'l ball is played differently than the NBA and the NCAA. I do not know why. Its not just the traveling, its the lane size, its the contact (which they allow more), its the defensive rules. The subtle differences take away our slimming talent-advantage. Our best players do not play the game they are being asked to play Intl, so why go do it? Do we send Jeter to play T-Ball (no stealing).

There is nowhere near enough time to prepare. These other countries have a national basketball system. The don't have "college", they identify their best players and play them together. "This is how we play in Greece, these are our plays and these are your teammates" from the time they are teens. You expect Bosh, Howard, Miller and Jamison - who probably never met - to have some type of chemistry. Even the first Dream Team had Pippen and MJ, who knew how to play together. None of these guys are teammates. Should have kept Arenas just to play him with Jamison.

The expectation is just too damn high. Every loss is not just a loss, it is a national travesty and embarassment. Other teams can play well and lose and go home saying "Hey we played well and lost but at least we played well". In the U.S. its, why can't we shoot, why can't we defend, we don't play fundamental, this guy should have gone, etc. Why have this charade every off-season? I concede we cannot shoot, but we sure as hell can play.

So, in other words, we are sending our best players to play a different game, hurt their teams/franchise, without preparation, yet with every expection to not just win -- but dominate.

Screw it. I am pro-NBA. Want to win the worlds? Send the NBDL champs. They've played together all year, they want the extra exposure, and most of them have played in Europe...and if we lose, its only our minor leaguers that lost.
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Old 09-01-2006, 10:17 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Zaza
Could we just not send a team. I am extremely serious about this. Lets just not go to the WC's or Olympics, or anything else anymore. Or if we do, send a bunch of NBDL'ers, take the loss, and call it a day.

Why I am right -again:

I can guaranty at least one of Wade, 'Melo, or James missing 2-3 weeks in Nov-Dec due to some naging injury. That's bad, its unfair to the NBA, its unfair to the teams that pay their salaries, its unfair to the fans of those teams. Denver is going to be in a tight-race for a playoff spot - they don't need hobbled Carmelo until Jan. Don't beleive me, ask Duncan why he won't participate anymore.

For some reason Int'l ball is played differently than the NBA and the NCAA. I do not know why. Its not just the traveling, its the lane size, its the contact (which they allow more), its the defensive rules. The subtle differences take away our slimming talent-advantage. Our best players do not play the game they are being asked to play Intl, so why go do it? Do we send Jeter to play T-Ball (no stealing).

There is nowhere near enough time to prepare. These other countries have a national basketball system. The don't have "college", they identify their best players and play them together. "This is how we play in Greece, these are our plays and these are your teammates" from the time they are teens. You expect Bosh, Howard, Miller and Jamison - who probably never met - to have some type of chemistry. Even the first Dream Team had Pippen and MJ, who knew how to play together. None of these guys are teammates. Should have kept Arenas just to play him with Jamison.

The expectation is just too damn high. Every loss is not just a loss, it is a national travesty and embarassment. Other teams can play well and lose and go home saying "Hey we played well and lost but at least we played well". In the U.S. its, why can't we shoot, why can't we defend, we don't play fundamental, this guy should have gone, etc. Why have this charade every off-season? I concede we cannot shoot, but we sure as hell can play.

So, in other words, we are sending our best players to play a different game, hurt their teams/franchise, without preparation, yet with every expection to not just win -- but dominate.

Screw it. I am pro-NBA. Want to win the worlds? Send the NBDL champs. They've played together all year, they want the extra exposure, and most of them have played in Europe...and if we lose, its only our minor leaguers that lost.

So your a pro-manufactured league with manufactured players that can't shoot or play defense. Or do anything other than jump for that matter.

The same missed ft's and missed shots is the samething that goes on in the NBA and makes the games unwatchable. Heck, I'm on the site more than I actually watch the games now.
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Old 09-01-2006, 10:25 AM   #20
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Joey Zaza said it nicely.
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Old 09-01-2006, 10:31 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotlantadude81
So your a pro-manufactured league with manufactured players that can't shoot or play defense. Or do anything other than jump for that matter.

No I'm pro the league that brings in all players based solely on their ability to play basketball - regardless of national origin. Its just the best compilation of players. That makes it the best league.

...but the Greeks play like a "team", not like the fat lazy americans.

You know who else pays like a team - the SA Spurs, Det Pistons, Pho Suns and Mia. Heat. Hell the Atl. Haws played like a "team" for the most part last year too. How arethese guys supposed to play like a team anyway.
"Hi I'm Chris"
"Hi I'm Brad"
"Ummm...so where do you like to get the ball"
"I don't know. Y'know, wherever. Right around here is fine"
"Is that inside the the in'tl lane or outside"
"I don't know - haha"
"Yeah, hahah, OK, well, see you later"

...but this is really the bestin the world..

No its not. The best in the world is when you get all the players in the world together, pick them based on skill, and let them play against each other. The winner is the best in the world. That's the NBA. This determines the country that sent the best team for this tournament.

...but Americans can't shoot.

I think that's been established. But, there is more to the game than shooting. If anything, our guy's biggest flaw is poor decision making. They shoot too many 3's for guys who can't shoot, especially when it appears that they can always get to the rim.
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Old 09-01-2006, 10:40 AM   #22
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[quote]No I'm pro the league that brings in all players based solely on their ability to play basketball - regardless of national origin. Its just the best compilation of players. That makes it the best league.

What ability? To Dunk? What else can NBA players do? If they have so much ability, how come the games are so hard to watch? How come teams can't even score 100PPG? (Other than 3 or 4)

Great teams make a league great. Not players manufactured by refs. Just like the finals. Dwayne Wade isn't a star... He was made out to be one due to the ref;s letting him get away with anything.

The NBA isn't much different than the WWE. The refs just influence things instead of totally fixing them.



Quote:
I think that's been established. But, there is more to the game than shooting. If anything, our guy's biggest flaw is poor decision making. They shoot too many 3's for guys who can't shoot, especially when it appears that they can always get to the rim.

Yeah.

How about passing... Where are the PG's? Where are the legit 7 footers that will play inside. I mean legit tough 7 footers. Not dyckless coward players like Kevin Garnett.

What about defense? How come they can't do anything againest the pick n roll.
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Old 09-01-2006, 10:42 AM   #23
don juan de marco
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MIAMI<<<<<<<<<<<LOSANGELES

hey as long as u know kobe is better than ur lil wade..the refs aint here to save ur wade boy now
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Old 09-01-2006, 10:46 AM   #24
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[quote=Hotlantadude81]
Quote:
No I'm pro the league that brings in all players based solely on their ability to play basketball - regardless of national origin. Its just the best compilation of players. That makes it the best league.

What ability? To Dunk? What else can NBA players do? If they have so much ability, how come the games are so hard to watch? How come teams can't even score 100PPG? (Other than 3 or 4)

Great teams make a league great. Not players manufactured by refs. Just like the finals. Dwayne Wade isn't a star... He was made out to be one due to the ref;s letting him get away with anything.

The NBA isn't much different than the WWE. The refs just influence things instead of totally fixing them.





Yeah.

How about passing... Where are the PG's? Where are the legit 7 footers that will play inside. I mean legit tough 7 footers. Not dyckless coward players like Kevin Garnett.

What about defense? How come they can't do anything againest the pick n roll.

great Post I couldn't agree more.
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Old 09-01-2006, 10:53 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotlantadude81
What ability? To Dunk? What else can NBA players do? If they have so much ability, how come the games are so hard to watch? How come teams can't even score 100PPG? (Other than 3 or 4)

Are games really so hard to watch? Redd can only dunk. KG and Duncan can only dunk? Nash can only dunk? Bowen can only dunk? the skill sets in the NBA are remarkable. The big complaint is that NBA temas rely on a single diverse "star", who really only dunks - and then 11 specialists. Their skills go beyond dunking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotlantadude81
Great teams make a league great. Not players manufactured by refs. Just like the finals. Dwayne Wade isn't a star... He was made out to be one due to the ref;s letting him get away with anything.

The NBA isn't much different than the WWE. The refs just influence things instead of totally fixing them.

If you beleive that - the question is why? Why do they want a champ from Miami? Why do they want Wade ot be a star? Why not throw the Det series to make LeB the star. Or throw the NYC games to keep the Knicks a strong franchise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotlantadude81
How about passing... Where are the PG's? Where are the legit 7 footers that will play inside. I mean legit tough 7 footers. Not dyckless coward players like Kevin Garnett.

Paul, Nash, Brevin Knight, even J.Williams - D.Willaims and Felton have potential. Shaq, Howard, Yao plays inside.

I like the way in one paragraph you critize the limited skill of nBA players, then you criticize KG, who has the most diverse skill set in the league - because he isn't inside and dunking enough for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotlantadude81
What about defense? How come they can't do anything againest the pick n roll.

Spurs defend the p/r well, as do the Pistons, Miami did a great job defneidng the p/r v. Dallas.

Also, while every team tries ot stop the p/r, it is impossible to stop a well-executed p/r.
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Old 09-01-2006, 10:59 AM   #26
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The Celtics could beat Team Greece.

Heck, the Hawks could do it.

Its all about team continuity and chemistry. You cant just throw a team together and expect them to win. People expect results like the '92 team, but those days are long gone. The world has teaken big strides, and its their rules, their court, their game, with players that practically grew up together.

So please lay off the US players.
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Old 09-01-2006, 11:01 AM   #27
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Remember the Captains, LeBron, Carmello and Dwyane. Do not forget them. Do not let history repeat itself. These guys were in 2004, now in 2006. And the same result. But they should get protected by the NBA marketing department so i guess the blame goes to guys like Battier, Hinrich, and so on.
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Old 09-01-2006, 11:09 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnySic
The Celtics could beat Team Greece.

Heck, the Hawks could do it.

Its all about team continuity and chemistry. You cant just throw a team together and expect them to win. People expect results like the '92 team, but those days are long gone. The world has teaken big strides, and its their rules, their court, their game, with players that practically grew up together.

So please lay off the US players.

nowdays Celtics and Hawks would lose from Qatar and Nigeria.
the Hawks of Dominique or Celtics of Bird would win easilly
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Old 09-01-2006, 11:13 AM   #29
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Are games really so hard to watch? Redd can only dunk. KG and Duncan can only dunk? Nash can only dunk? Bowen can only dunk? the skill sets in the NBA are remarkable. The big complaint is that NBA temas rely on a single diverse "star", who really only dunks - and then 11 specialists. Their skills go beyond dunking.

Yes, games are hard to watch. You can name a few exceptions. I'm very proud of you... However, the league has a whole lacks shooters, passers, and inside players. Exceptions don't change the rule man. A team might have one or two players that can shoot. There's 12-15 players per team.

The games show how it is. Teams struggle to shoot... It's obvious in TEAM's shooting percentage and PPG scoring average. Watch games and how crappy teams look on offense. How inconsistant. If the NBA players overall were skilled shooters teams wouldn't struggle againest the zone.

Some people feel zone has actually hurt the NBA more than helped it. Cause now, we a team is on a run, the other team can go to zone... and bam! the game gets ugly.

The games are often slowed down because teams don't have the PG's that can run and uptempo team.

The skill sets aren't amazing.... Anything but amazing. If they were, the games wouldn't be hard to watch... Teams wouldn't struggle to shoot and push the ball down court now would they?

Quote:
If you beleive that - the question is why? Why do they want a champ from Miami? Why do they want Wade ot be a star? Why not throw the Det series to make LeB the star. Or throw the NYC games to keep the Knicks a strong franchise?

Influence and totally fixing are two different things. Some of calls that Wade got were not earned. And for one thing, Wade plays with Shaq. The Lakers were given calls when Shaq played for LA... H*ll Lebron James go away with a game winner in one of those games againest Washington when it clearly shouldn't ahve counted.

Quote:
Paul, Nash, Brevin Knight, even J.Williams - D.Willaims and Felton have potential. Shaq, Howard, Yao plays inside.

It's 29+ team league and you given me 3 or 4 names at PG? Brevin Knight is a backup. Shaq is about out of the league and Yao Ming is soft like KG.

Like I said, there's going to be a few exceptions here and there in a 350+ player league... But the thing is that they are a few exceptions.

Quote:
I like the way in one paragraph you critize the limited skill of nBA players, then you criticize KG, who has the most diverse skill set in the league - because he isn't inside and dunking enough for you.

I attack KG because he lacks toughness and is a 3 qr player.

Last edited by Hotlantadude81 : 09-01-2006 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 09-01-2006, 11:22 AM   #30
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why some need to overstate the reasons for the loss especially when most of those doing that probably didn't even watch the game... there was not a problem with the inherent skill level (shooting) or fundamentals offensively of the guys there... we scored plenty enough to win though the ft shooting definitely hurt us...

we lost simply because it is near impossible to play team defense well enough to stop a well oiled offense with a group of players thrown together for a couple months... it's not a matter of fundamentals, desire, or coaching but rather a fact of the limited prep time... end of story

could changes be made to the roster to help defensively... yes

could changes be made to make the offense even better... yes...

my quick thought would be to go with almost completely centers or really big mobile 4's... guys like Brand (a decent team defender in the NBA), Miller, and Jamison are pretty useless defensively in a game against the best international teams...

also in judging the offensive games of guys the ideal should be guys that can get the ball and do something with it quickly whether it's shoot or create... that's why Melo (a guy many view as a hog) was so effective but LeBron and Wade (thought of as better NBA offensive players) were less effective in the halfcourt because they typically need the ball to set up their offense in the halfcourt... a guy like Arenas would help in this area because he can catch and shoot or get the ball and attack the rim immediately without dribbling first to set up dribble penetration...
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