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Old 09-01-2006, 10:33 AM   #31
Hotlantadude81
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Originally Posted by trenttucker
why some need to overstate the reasons for the loss especially when most of those doing that probably didn't even watch the game... there was not a problem with the inherent skill level (shooting) or fundamentals offensively of the guys there... we scored plenty enough to win though the ft shooting definitely hurt us...

we lost simply because it is near impossible to play team defense well enough to stop a well oiled offense with a group of players thrown together for a couple months... it's not a matter of fundamentals, desire, or coaching but rather a fact of the limited prep time... end of story

could changes be made to the roster to help defensively... yes

could changes be made to make the offense even better... yes...

my quick thought would be to go with almost completely centers or really big mobile 4's... guys like Brand (a decent team defender in the NBA), Miller, and Jamison are pretty useless defensively in a game against the best international teams...

also in judging the offensive games of guys the ideal should be guys that can get the ball and do something with it quickly whether it's shoot or create... that's why Melo (a guy many view as a hog) was so effective but LeBron and Wade (thought of as better NBA offensive players) were less effective in the halfcourt because they typically need the ball to set up their offense in the halfcourt... a guy like Arenas would help in this area because he can catch and shoot or get the ball and attack the rim immediately without dribbling first to set up dribble penetration...

It worked in 1992 and worked in 1996... Ok, so these guys have got better. However, NBA players are now much worse than they used to be. You don't even have to watch these games. Watch NBA games and it;'s easy to see.
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Old 09-01-2006, 10:53 AM   #32
Joey Zaza
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Originally Posted by Hotlantadude81
It worked in 1992 and worked in 1996... Ok, so these guys have got better. However, NBA players are now much worse than they used to be. You don't even have to watch these games. Watch NBA games and it;'s easy to see.

Its ahrd to arguewith you Hotlants because you really hate the NBA so much. Maybe its because your team has been bad for so long. There have always been good NBA players and mediocre-limited players.

Yes the Celts and Lakers were awesome i the 80's, but almost every other team was sh!t, loaded with players that could only dunk - or lacked toughness - or whatever your problem is. The Nuggets of that era didn't defend. The Knicks of that era couldn't shoot.

Even the very good Knicks teams of the 90's couldn't shoot. The greatest Atl player ever- 'Nique - was just a dunker and terrible defender and a 3 qtr player and a ball-hog...but he was a dominating nBA player. The pg complaint. Tell me an era where there were alot of pass first pg's. In the 90's we had Price, Stockton, Mark Jackson...KJ was a shooter/passer, D.Harper, BJ Armstrong were more shooter than passers. Rod Strickland, Timmy Hardaway - all shooters - at least as much shooters as T.Parker and M.James.

The history of limited players in the NBA is long and distinguished. If it bothers you so much, you really shouldn't watch. I'm not exactly sure what better baketball you are looking for - maybe the NCAA's are better for you.
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Old 09-01-2006, 11:08 AM   #33
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[quote]Its ahrd to arguewith you Hotlants because you really hate the NBA so much. Maybe its because your team has been bad for so long. There have always been good NBA players and mediocre-limited players.

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Yes the Celts and Lakers were awesome i the 80's, but almost every other team was sh!t, loaded with players that could only dunk - or lacked toughness - or whatever your problem is. The Nuggets of that era didn't defend. The Knicks of that era couldn't shoot.


Look at the team that won the NBA title. Can we really say that Heat team is great? Or even very good? heck, I believe they had a losing record againest teams with a winning record. That alone suggest they were not a great team.

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Even the very good Knicks teams of the 90's couldn't shoot. The greatest Atl player ever- 'Nique - was just a dunker and terrible defender and a 3 qtr player and a ball-hog...but he was a dominating nBA player. The pg complaint. Tell me an era where there were alot of pass first pg's. In the 90's we had Price, Stockton, Mark Jackson...KJ was a shooter/passer, D.Harper, BJ Armstrong were more shooter than passers. Rod Strickland, Timmy Hardaway - all shooters - at least as much shooters as T.Parker and M.James.

Don't forget... Kidd played in the 90's aswell.

Price/Stockton/Jackson/KG/Penny/Timmy Those guys are better than Paul/J Williams/Brevin Knight. Rod Strickland was alot better playmaker than most of the PG's now.

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The history of limited players in the NBA is long and distinguished. If it bothers you so much, you really shouldn't watch. I'm not exactly sure what better baketball you are looking for - maybe the NCAA's are better for you.

My view is that it's simply become more and more limited by the years.

Things have been different for me since 1999. Believe it or not, I was a very positive fan at one time. Is it partly due to the Hawks lack of success? Probably, but that's not all.

I watched basketball at the tail end of the 80's... But 90's NBA will always be what I know. MJ, Hakeem, Clyde, Stockton, Malone, Barkley, Mutombo, Payton, Timmy H, Zo, Larry Johnson, Kevin Johnson, Dan Marjerle etc....

So, the change in era has left me behind somewhat, but I still don't like the quality of the league and I struggle to get behind the players like I got behind the players I watched growing up.

I guess that's all I got left to say about the whole thing now. Not anything else left for me to say.
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Old 09-01-2006, 11:38 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotlantadude81
It worked in 1992 and worked in 1996... Ok, so these guys have got better. However, NBA players are now much worse than they used to be. You don't even have to watch these games. Watch NBA games and it;'s easy to see.


for the newsflash! You're really going out on a limb by saying that the first dream teams were better than the current group. Bird, Magic, and Jordan were obviously awesome (MJ still in his prime) but that team had 2 anchors in Hakeem and DRob... 2 long athletic big men that could play offensively and defensively... which is exactly what this team lacked...

i don't like Kobe as a guy but as a player he will help this team not so much with his O but more importantly the ball pressure he'll be able to put if he chooses while playing limited minutes and not having to carry the O...

talking about and comparing this squad to the old teams is moot and counter productive.... those were veteran teams... and all this would be moot if the best players simply always played (if physically able) like all of the other nations... in '04 do we lose if we have KG, Kobe, Shaq... no

if the best guys did play we wouldn't have to worry about getting primarily young guys to play the WC's and make a 3 year commitment but could have rather just sent the team with the best chance to win this year (AI, KG, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Ben Wallace, Ray Allen, etc.)
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Old 09-01-2006, 12:06 PM   #35
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Ya there is but it would probably include a few Americans who are currently playing in Europe and understand the international game.

why were none of them even considered for Team USA? Again it was only established names or rising stars. They are still trying to sell jerseys over winning.

Also, zone is good for the NBA. right now, players have been able to get away with not being able to shoot for quite a while so its uglying up the game. but in the long term, players will be forced to learn how to shoot to get by it. well, that is if they let you hand check again. thats the rule that killed this team. Wade and Bron are used to not being touched so when it doesnt go their way....

did you guy see Wade hanging back and complaining after a blown dunk late in the game? friggin hilarious.
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Old 09-01-2006, 12:08 PM   #36
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when Jordan himself sees an NBA game and is shocked into saying "Even I never got those calls", there is something wrong with the NBA.
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Old 09-01-2006, 12:22 PM   #37
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The USA : a bunch of superstars who only train together 2 months before the world tournament...

Europe and South America : a few superstars, some stars, and common players, who know each other very well and are used to play a a TEAM.

The sum of individuals will never be equivalent to a genuine team spirit.

The gap between the US individual players and the European/South American players exists, but it's not as huge as it used to be (1992, 1996, 1996 for instance). I mean, the US players are still EXCELLENT, but the foreigners have hugely improved (just compare the number of non-Americans in the NBA : now and 15 years ago).
So it's not enough anymore to beat a good international team, nowdays !

When will the US really select its best players, and keep the main frame (some adjusments are possible though, but from one year to another, the US team is totally different), and above all train regularly (I mean, a training camp every year would be good)??
They could organize blanc games against other teams too.

I'm waiting for it, and then the US team will be the Dream Team anew !

Last edited by Albator102004 : 09-01-2006 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 09-01-2006, 12:24 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by kentatm
when Jordan himself sees an NBA game and is shocked into saying "Even I never got those calls", there is something wrong with the NBA.

there's nothing wrong with the NBA... their goal is not to produce players to throw together in 2 months to win a FIBA tournament...
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