Blender Magazine calls Tupac "the most overrated artist ever"

[blasian]

http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/news/id.7638/title.blender-calls-tupac-the-most-overrated-artist-ever

I actually agree with them somewhat. I wouldn't go so far as to call him the most overrated ever, but I do agree that he is overrated. Who he was as a person and leader sort of blended into who he was as a rapper. Taking away the legacy, influence, and larger than life persona and just looking at skills on the mic, there are many rappers who were better than Pac. Pac was still great though, no doubt, and I'd still probably put him in my top 10. But from a technical standpoint I don't think he was the best rapper ever.

[ForceOfNature]

I agree to some point as well. He was great, but he's overrated to a great extent. Part of it has to do with his sudden death.

[cartmanclone]

that's why we've never heard of that retarded magazine

[LJJ]

No love for the Beatles?

[Dasher]

No love for the Beatles? Got in a second or two before I did.

The Beatles are the most overrated artists in history. If someone does not think Pac is one of the greats people will hear you out, but if you do not fawn over the Beatles watch out...

[NastaMaverick]

So is Biggie. Why? Cause they died.

[Smokee]

He is. Tupac wasn't NEARLY thought of like he is now when he was alive. And its always funny to see kids who weren't even alive or just a baby when Tupac was around making music, talk about how influential he was to hip hop :rolleyes:

[blasian]

Lol at the comments by the hiphopdx readers. Pretty much proving the magazine's point...

[JayGuevara]

Got in a second or two before I did.

The Beatles are the most overrated artists in history. If someone does not think Pac is one of the greats people will hear you out, but if you do not fawn over the Beatles watch out...

That was gonna be my comment in this thread. The Beatles are by far and away the most overrated artists ever, in my personal opinion. People will claim that Pac, Jimi Hendrix, Elvis, etc etc are overrated, but I personally cannot fathom anyone being more overrated than the Beatles.

Maybe Hawker with Oasis, but that's an isolated incident.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Uhhhh... Lil' Wayne, Jay Z, and 50 Cent might have something to say about that in terms of being overrated.

Let's think about it... yes 2pac has been called the greatest, but his music was actually good...

Lil Wayne is being called one of the greatest rappers ever... And he might be personably responsible for the death of Hip-Hop. His music is pure crap and it's all over the radio.

Lil Wayne = the most overrated piece of $hit I've ever heard. He's Responsible for sending a large percentage of the black community to a new level of ignorance and stupidity.

[Smokee]

Beatles were a world phenomenon. Ever see how nuts people went in those black and white clips? I don't think we've ever seen anything like that with any celebrity/musicians...

They also were pretty diverse with their music. Personally i hated they're top 40 stuff though that they are mostly known for(twist and shouts).

They also i believe started that genre of upbeat music, or something like that. I just remember reading somewhere they got a lot of flack with religious nuts calling it the 'devils music'....don't forget in those days religious nuts were like anti-dancing....even in the 80's they used to portray hard rock, and groups like ACDC or Def Lepard as satanists. Funny how things change, and how ignorant the religious extremists always are :rolleyes:

Tupac was just another hip hop artist when he was alive. Its unbelievable the **** i hear about how legendary he is nowadays. I'm betting Kanye is going to have the same **** happen to him when he dies, and history will be reinvented again :banghead:

[Beebo]

I love Tupac but yes he is overrated. But is it his fault?? I don't think so.....it was only after his death, that all these post death albums and documentarys about him came out. He had no control over that.

[LJJ]

I love Tupac but yes he is overrated. But is it his fault?? I don't think so.....it was only after his death, that all these post death albums and documentarys about him came out. He had no control over that.

So what the hell has that to do with anything?

Even if you could make yourself "overrated". More power to you.

[Beebo]

So what the hell has that to do with anything?

Even if you could make yourself "overrated". More power to you.

Won't more people dislike you if you were considered highly overrated??

[Meticode]

I'm not a Beatles fan. But how in the hell can someone say the Beatles are overrated. They've had 40 hit singles, and have sold billions of records worldwide...BILLIONS...and that was estimated by 1985...it's been 23 years since then...so it's no telling how much they've sold...also 15 #1 albums/eps.

Again I say I'm not a fan on them, but you cannot deny their success.

[Dasher]

The Beatles are overrated because they are considered the greatest band of all time, despite not having actually invented/brought anything new to rock music. They were not great singers, and a lot of their songs were childish gibberish.

[JtotheIzzo]

The Beatles are overrated because they are considered the greatest band of all time, despite not having actually invented/brought anything new to rock music. They were not great singers, and a lot of their songs were childish gibberish.

I am not a big Beatles fan, but you have to be drunk to think that. Basically everything in bold couldn't be more wrong.



the answer is Kurt Cobain

[Smokee]

The Beatles are overrated because they are considered the greatest band of all time, despite not having actually invented/brought anything new to rock music. They were not great singers, and a lot of their songs were childish gibberish.



i'm pretty sure they and Elvis are credited with changing music and bringing about 'rock' as we know it.

[Hawker]

The Beatles are overrated because they are considered the greatest band of all time, despite not having actually invented/brought anything new to rock music. They were not great singers, and a lot of their songs were childish gibberish.

This couldnt be anymore wrong dude.

How can you say they didnt invent or bring anything new? Sgt. Peppers was the first of its kind and unprecedented for the type of studio technology they had back then. The beatles and Elvis INVENTED rocl 'n' roll. How is that not bringing something new in?

[ryantheporchkid]

The Beatles are overrated because they are considered the greatest band of all time, despite not having actually invented/brought anything new to rock music. They were not great singers, and a lot of their songs were childish gibberish.

Do you like swing music? Rosie the Riveter get you pumped?

izzo got it right.

[JayGuevara]

I'm not a Beatles fan. But how in the hell can someone say the Beatles are overrated. They've had 40 hit singles, and have sold billions of records worldwide...BILLIONS...and that was estimated by 1985...it's been 23 years since then...so it's no telling how much they've sold...also 15 #1 albums/eps.

Again I say I'm not a fan on them, but you cannot deny their success.

Success does not translate into innovation, vision, undeniable talent, etc etc, see Soulja Boy, or current Lil Wayne, or 50 Cent for more examples.

The Beatles have never done anything for me. I fail to see them as worthy of their considerable praise.

And Kurt Cobain cannot be considered that overrated because the movement he personified was responsible for the death of glam rock. And that in itself deserves to be applauded.

[Hawker]

Success does not translate into innovation, vision, undeniable talent, etc etc, see Soulja Boy, or current Lil Wayne, or 50 Cent for more examples.

The Beatles have never done anything for me. I fail to see them as worthy of their considerable praise.

And Kurt Cobain cannot be considered that overrated because the movement he personified was responsible for the death of glam rock. And that in itself deserves to be applauded.

In this case, it clearly does. The song structure of many of their songs are incredible and Sgt. Peppers was the first of its kind using new studio technology. That's innovation, vision and undeniable talent.

You cant compare, soulja boy, wayne or 50 cent to the beatles. Absolutely no way.

[JtotheIzzo]

Success does not translate into innovation, vision, undeniable talent, etc etc, see Soulja Boy, or current Lil Wayne, or 50 Cent for more examples.

The Beatles have never done anything for me. I fail to see them as worthy of their considerable praise.

And Kurt Cobain cannot be considered that overrated because the movement he personified was responsible for the death of glam rock. And that in itself deserves to be applauded.

personification doesn't mean jack.

Nirvana was not an architect of Grunge.
A lot of other bands in the same city were more talented and truer to the genre.
He wasn't even the most talented person in his band, nor did he have creative control.
He was made famous by his (timely) death, had he stayed alive Nirvana would have pumped out uninspiring album after uninspiring album like Pearl Jam did after great early success. They would not be considered an all time great band like they are, they'd be the Foo Fighters. People who like Rock like the Foo Fighters but they are not 'it', and Neither would have Cobain been.

[JayGuevara]

Sgt. Peppers was the first of its kind using new studio technology. That's innovation, vision and undeniable talent.



So the first artist to commercially release a CD instead of a cassette is a pioneer? The first artist to release their new album on 8-track instead of vinyl was the best of their generation? I'm not going to look but I guarantee you there were a lot of ****ty bands using "new studio technology" and that doesn't not make them the music industries Lewis and Clark. Is DJ Screw on the same level as the Beatles for using new studio technology to chop and screw music?

But obviously the only reason the Beatles dominated was because it was a WEAK era.

[JayGuevara]

personification doesn't mean jack.

Nirvana was not an architect of Grunge.
A lot of other bands in the same city were more talented and truer to the genre.
He wasn't even the most talented person in his band, nor did he have creative control.
He was made famous by his (timely) death, had he stayed alive Nirvana would have pumped out uninspiring album after uninspiring album like Pearl Jam did after great early success. They would not be considered an all time great band like they are, they'd be the Foo Fighters. People who like Rock like the Foo Fighters but they are not 'it', and Neither would have Cobain been.

Grunge isn't even a genre. It was the movement, and who comes to mind when you think of grunge? You have other Seattle bands like Soundgarden, Alice In Chains, Mother Love Bone, all different sounds, yet all came out around the same time and were lumped in the same movement. Yet Andrew Wood nor Layne Staley truly personified the movement like Kurt Cobain, and they both died untimely deaths. And neither are regarded in the same light as Cobain neither. So why is that? Like it or not, Kurt Cobain was the definition of grunge.

[v-unit]

Uhhhh... Lil' Wayne, Jay Z, and 50 Cent might have something to say about that in terms of being overrated.

Let's think about it... yes 2pac has been called the greatest, but his music was actually good...

Lil Wayne is being called one of the greatest rappers ever... And he might be personably responsible for the death of Hip-Hop. His music is pure crap and it's all over the radio.

Lil Wayne = the most overrated piece of $hit I've ever heard. He's Responsible for sending a large percentage of the black community to a new level of ignorance and stupidity.

No.

Jay-Z is not overated, he is not called the best ever, he is always ranked top 5, why? Because he isn't overated, it's your favourite artist 2Pac who is on top of everyone's list, why? Because he's overated, proof? Check the magazine, they agree as well.

Jay-Z is very successful, his flow, rhyming, illustrative words, clever word play and other various literary devices that other rappers don't use is what seperates him from others. Again, he is not nearly called the GOAT rapper as much as 2Pac, so if you say he is overated, that's saying that he doesn't deserve to be mentioned when thinking of good rappers. That in turn, if anything, makes him underated.


If Hip-Hop is dead I am the embolic fluid, and I don't care what it be, I'm stepping to it

He is doing his thing, just because you are only hearing his hits and not his actual well written songs, doesn't mean he is overated. Again, there are plenty of people that would put Pac over both of them, rarely do people put Wayne over pac, so again, they aren't overated compared to Pac.

[Hawker]

So the first artist to commercially release a CD instead of a cassette is a pioneer? The first artist to release their new album on 8-track instead of vinyl was the best of their generation? I'm not going to look but I guarantee you there were a lot of ****ty bands using "new studio technology" and that doesn't not make them the music industries Lewis and Clark. Is DJ Screw on the same level as the Beatles for using new studio technology to chop and screw music?

But obviously the only reason the Beatles dominated was because it was a WEAK era.

Wow...does a CD create the actual music? No. That's clearly not what I'm referring to. I'm referring to synthesizers and new sounds created by new technology. It sounded great and a reason why that album is so very praised.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

YO TUPAC WAS NOT JUST A FCKING ORDINARY RAPPER BEFORE HE FCKING DIED. WHERE THE FCK DO U GET OFF SAYING SOME DUMB ASSSSS SH!T LIKE THAT? AND HIS LEGEND GREW BIGGER AND BIGGER BECAUSE OF THE 100'S OF SONGS HE HAD UNRELEASED BEFORE HE DIED. AND THEM SONGS WEREN'T EVEN COMPLETE SH!T. SOME OF THAT SH!T WAS STRAIGHT BANGERS TO. TUPAC STARTED A WHOLE FCKING BEEF BETWEEN THE EAST COAST AND WESTT COAST. PEOPLE FCKING LISTENED TO WHAT TUPAC HAD TO SAY. TUPAC SPOKE THE GOD DAMN TRUTH. WOW I CANT BELIEVE SOME OF THE SH!T I AM READING IN THIS THREAD. ABSOLUTLY GARBAGE. EAST COAST RAPPERS WERE BEGGING FOR MERCY FROM TUPAC. HE WAS HIGHLY RESPECTED EVEN BY HIS FOES. LOOK HOW MUCH JAY-Z JOCKS TUPACS D!CK AND TUPAC HATED JAY'S FCKING GUTS. I HAVE NO IDEA HOW PAC IS EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE TO BEING OVERRATED...ESPECIALLY WHEN U GOT JAY-Z AS THE KING OF HIP HOP RITE NOW AND FOR THE PAST 10 YEARS OR SO. I JUST LOST ALOT OF RESPECT FOR ALOT OF POSTERS IN THIS THREAD. HAS ANYBODY EVER HEARD QUINCY JONES PRAISE TUPAC? I MEAN COME ON GUYS, SNAP OUT OF IT. WE WILL NEVER EVER SEE ANOTHER BLACK MALE AS TALENTED AS TUPAC...EVER! :mad: :mad: :banghead: :banghead:

[JayGuevara]

Wow...does a CD create the actual music? No. That's clearly not what I'm referring to. I'm referring to synthesizers and new sounds created by new technology. It sounded great and a reason why that album is so very praised.

Well then is T-Pain going to go down in history for using his voice effects on every song? Is DJ Screw on the same level as the Beatles for chopping and screwing? Those are pioneers right there, same as the Beatles.

[Dasher]

i'm pretty sure they and Elvis are credited with changing music and bringing about 'rock' as we know it.Elvis aped the chitlin circuit rock acts, gyration for gyration, and ugh for ugh.


Give me examples of things that did not exist in rock/pop before the Beatles started doing it.

[Hawker]

Well then is T-Pain going to go down in history for using his voice effects on every song? Is DJ Screw on the same level as the Beatles for chopping and screwing? Those are pioneers right there, same as the Beatles.

IT was 1969 when the album was created and that's why it was so revolutionary. This is the year 2008 where new technology is the norm.

Your comparisons are nowhere near on the same level as what the Beatles did and that's why the beatles are the beatles. The greatest band of all time.

[Smokee]

Elvis aped the chitlin circuit rock acts, gyration for gyration, and ugh for ugh.


Give me examples of things that did not exist in rock/pop before the Beatles started doing it.



i couldn't tell you honestly. I'm not the biggest Beatles fan, and the stuff i like from them isn't exactly they're most popular stuff. I know i've read or seen them being accredited for the evolution of rock n roll. Maybe its Twist and Shout? I know that was huge around the world, and upbeat, although i couldn't tell you anything at all about the other music around right before it. I love their psychedelic stuff tho, even Strawberry Fields.

I have a lot of respect for Paul Mccartney's musical talents also. Seen him on Stern doing little on the spot stuff, and the guy is just really talented, more than i ever thought.

Again tho i'm not really a Beatles fan and i wasn't alive back then either. But i was at least alive when Tupac was and making music, and he was nothing like hes remembered these days :ohwell:

[-primetime-]

"FEEL ME!!!"


he says this at least 50 times in every track he ever made...

I never liked him that much...

[JayGuevara]

IT was 1969 when the album was created and that's why it was so revolutionary. This is the year 2008 where new technology is the norm.

Your comparison are nowhere near on the same level as what the Beatles did and that's why the beatles are the beatles. The greatest band of all time.

New technology is not the norm because it's 2008, it's relative to it's time. New technology in cars is still new technology and innovative, even though the Model T was built a 100 years ago. And in the event flying cars come out, they're gonna be revolutionary, not discredited because "it's the year ____ where new technology is the norm"

[Dasher]

There were at least a 20 versions of "Twist and Shout" before the Beatles released their's. So no the Beatles did not invent the dance craze.

[picc84]

I agree with Blender.

[ikoiko]

I'm not a Beatles fan. But how in the hell can someone say the Beatles are overrated. They've had 40 hit singles, and have sold billions of records worldwide...BILLIONS...and that was estimated by 1985...it's been 23 years since then...so it's no telling how much they've sold...also 15 #1 albums/eps.

Again I say I'm not a fan on them, but you cannot deny their success.

i think you may not know the meaning of "overrated". it doesn't mean they weren't successful.

their success is one of the main reasons they are overrated, since people like you just look at their popularity and think oh, that has got to be the greatest band ever. they weren't.

i wholeheartedly agree with you guys earlier who said the beatles are the most overrated ever. yes they were pioneers of rock music and so on... but how does the music they made stack up now? not so well, in my opionion. not even compared to artists from their own time. phil spector, nina simone and the beach boys >> the beatles.

[ikoiko]

Give me examples of things that did not exist in rock/pop before the Beatles started doing it.

i agree with your statement that the beatles are the most overrated of all time. but they sure did come up with a few new things - not that it should matter now, many years later. what we should focus on is: does the music still sound fresh, does it evoke the emotions in us that all great art does? the answer for me is a clear no. many other sixties artists do it for me, but with the beatles, i find half of their catalog to be silly gibberish, and the other half - the more ambitious songs - to be quite boring in fact.

[v-unit]

Hmm. I don't think they are the most overated.


Give me examples of things that did not exist in rock/pop before the Beatles started doing it.

They influenced an immense ammount of musicians, not just rock, but musicians of all genres, which is a huge deal considering many of our favourite artists wouldn't be the same without them. They revolutionalized music in general, upgrading the lyrics, experimenting with various instruments that other groups wouldn't use, etc.

[Undisputed]

The Rolling Stones > The Beatles, in my opinion.

On subject, 2-Pac was a great rapper. Overrated by many, but doesn't take away the fact that the man was one of the best at what he did. ONE of the best, not THE best. That's where people get sidetracked.

[The Judge]

When you look at the fact that The Beatles were only together for like 6 years, you really can't call them overrated. If they had made all that great music in the span of say, 20 years, then yeah, but considering all their great music from bubble gum pop, to their later albums like Let It Be was made in the span of 6 years, it's pretty ****ing impressive.

[ikoiko]

The Rolling Stones > The Beatles, in my opinion.

On subject, 2-Pac was a great rapper. Overrated by many, but doesn't take away the fact that the man was one of the best at what he did. ONE of the best, not THE best. That's where people get sidetracked.

agreed. though the rolling stones are overrated as well.

this would be my top five of overrated artists/bands:

1. the beatles. considered the greatest band of all time but their music hasn't aged well.
2. sex pistols. jump-started punk in britain but their music is unlistenable.
3. jimi hendrix. guitar *********ion.
4. janis joplin. her body of work is extremely unimpressive. can't stand that voice either.
5. the rolling stones. never much more than a r&b cover band. (and can they please just retire now? jeez.)

[-primetime-]

agreed. though the rolling stones are overrated as well.

this would be my top five of overrated artists/bands:

1. the beatles. considered the greatest band of all time but their music hasn't aged well.
2. sex pistols. jump-started punk in britain but their music is unlistenable.
3. jimi hendrix. guitar *********ion.
4. janis joplin. her body of work is extremely unimpressive. can't stand that voice either.
5. the rolling stones. never much more than a r&b cover band. (and can they please just retire now? jeez.)
I can see what you are saying kind of but at the same time you can replace those people with others that have had RECORD BREAKING sales like Britney Spears and other pop sensations that have NO TALENT at all...

[Hawker]

agreed. though the rolling stones are overrated as well.

this would be my top five of overrated artists/bands:

1. the beatles. considered the greatest band of all time but their music hasn't aged well.
2. sex pistols. jump-started punk in britain but their music is unlistenable.
3. jimi hendrix. guitar *********ion.
4. janis joplin. her body of work is extremely unimpressive. can't stand that voice either.
5. the rolling stones. never much more than a r&b cover band. (and can they please just retire now? jeez.)

How's Jimi Hendrix overrated? Because he isnt clean?

[v-unit]

I can see what you are saying kind of but at the same time you can replace those people with others that have had RECORD BREAKING sales like Britney Spears and other pop sensations that have NO TALENT at all...

No, you can't. How can you call Britney Spears overated when no one rates her high? She was never dubbed one of the greater singers, ever. Christina Aguilera is a singer, Britney Spears is just an entertainer, she dances, she makes catchy songs with no meaning. Her fans don't call her the greatest singer of all time, so how is she overrated?

You and dooms have the definition mixed up. She is one of the more popular artists in history, but not because she is seen as a great singer, ya dig?

[-primetime-]

No, you can't. How can you call Britney Spears overated when no one rates her high? She was never dubbed one of the greater singers, ever. Christina Aguilera is a singer, Britney Spears is just an entertainer, she dances, she makes catchy songs with no meaning. Her fans don't call her the greatest singer of all time, so how is she overrated?

You and dooms have the definition mixed up. She is one of the more popular artists in history, but not because she is seen as a great singer, ya dig?
yes...

which also makes Roy Williams (Dallas) the most underrated player in the NFL. :banana:

[ALlArOuNDPIaya]

How in the f*cking world is Jimi Hendrix overrated?

[Doomsday Dallas]

He is doing his thing, just because you are only hearing his hits and not his actual well written songs, doesn't mean he is overated. Again, there are plenty of people that would put Pac over both of them, rarely do people put Wayne over pac, so again, they aren't overated compared to Pac.

Yea okay... Lil' Wayne is garbage.

If he was even considered to be in the top 1,000 rappers of all time he would still be more overrated than tupac.

Yea he's doing his thing... and it sucks... and guess who listens to his crap? One dumbed-down, uneducated, simple-minded, ignorant, ghetto @ss audience. Unfortunately the radio networks across the globe shove this $hit down our throats just like they do with Soulja Boy to the point that we start thinking "Hey since everyone else likes it... I'll follow the trend."

Garbage.

[ikoiko]

How's Jimi Hendrix overrated? Because he isnt clean?

i think jimi hendrix is overrated since i have little to no patience for those big guitar solo things that gets in the way of songs. i think that is musical mast.ur.bation and while you guys sit in awe of his skills with the guitar, i am impatiently waiting for the song to move on. kinda like when mariah carey or whoever is wailing for a whole 60 seconds - just to show what gifted singers they are.

[InspiredLebowski]

Greater guitarist, Hendrix or Stevie Ray Vaughan?

[Undisputed]

Greater guitarist, Hendrix or Stevie Ray Vaughan?

Hendrix was the pioneer, Vaughn perfected. I like them both equally.

[ikoiko]

Greater guitarist, Hendrix or Stevie Ray Vaughan?

bo diddley.

[InspiredLebowski]

bo diddley.

Not an option.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Wait a second... I just realized I've never even heard of BLENDER MAGAZINE... So they can go f*ck themselves.

[InspiredLebowski]

Blender is like Maxim. Meaning it's legal to buy when you're not old enough to spank to Playboy.

[blasian]

and guess who listens to his crap? One dumbed-down, uneducated, simple-minded, ignorant, ghetto @ss audience.

Actually, white, pseudo-intellectual hipsters(including Blender Magazine) LOVE Lil Wayne. Lol, if his fanbase consisted of only ignorant ghetto kids do you think he could've sold so many damn records? I think Wayne is overrated but you're kind of talking out of your ass

[Hawker]

i think jimi hendrix is overrated since i have little to no patience for those big guitar solo things that gets in the way of songs. i think that is musical mast.ur.bation and while you guys sit in awe of his skills with the guitar, i am impatiently waiting for the song to move on. kinda like when mariah carey or whoever is wailing for a whole 60 seconds - just to show what gifted singers they are.

So basically you have no appreciation for a guitar solo. Just because you dont like his music, doesnt mean he's overrated. He makes incredible music with his guitar and you cant deny that. It isnt a goddamn pop song dude...SOLOS EXIST.

You really arent providing much credibility.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Actually, white, pseudo-intellectual hipsters(including Blender Magazine) LOVE Lil Wayne. Lol, if his fanbase consisted of only ignorant ghetto kids do you think he could've sold so many damn records? I think Wayne is overrated but you're kind of talking out of your ass

read this again...


Unfortunately the radio networks across the globe shove this $hit down our throats just like they do with Soulja Boy to the point that we start thinking "Hey since everyone else likes it... I'll follow the trend."

and yes, white people are guilty of trying to follow in the footsteps of what's 'hip' amongst the black community. I was guilty of it too, but that was when Rap was actually good (mid 90's)... I still listen to the same $Hit that came out 10 years ago... Every now and then I find something new that's decent,... but for the most part 99% of today's Hip-Hop is unbearable.

Personally for me Hip-Hop started to die when Master P and Cash Money Records started getting popular.... That was a time period when generic albums started getting pushed out left and right and somehow America was stupid enough to eat it all up.

[ikoiko]

So basically you have no appreciation for a guitar solo. Just because you dont like his music, doesnt mean he's overrated. He makes incredible music with his guitar and you cant deny that. It isnt a goddamn pop song dude...SOLOS EXIST.

You really arent providing much credibility.


The great thing about art is that there is no right or wrong, there are no objective truths. Have you failed to realise this or are you just upset that I called a guy you like 'overrated'? I will give you the benefit of the doubt and believe the latter. Because hells yeah I can deny that he made (past tense. remember, he choked on his own vomit and died) incredible music, since I don't care for it at all.

You say "Just because you dont like his music, doesnt mean he's overrated", but it is exactly the other way around. To me, he is vastly overrated. And this is the only way to measure what is good and what is not. How do we judge music without bringing in our own taste and preferences? I guess it would be record sales. And I don't think that is what you want.

I am sure you will agree with these points after thinking them over.

[blasian]

read this again...





I'm not here to debate the state of hip hop. My main point was that you were wrong in categorizing Wayne's audience as solely being the "ignorant ghetto crowd." I know plenty of educated people, both white and black who love Wayne. I know plenty of people who are music experts that love Wayne. I know plenty of hip hop heads who love Wayne. The fact that you hate Wayne doesnt give you the right to reduce his fanbase to morons when I can almost guarantee that there are many Lil Wayne fans whose knowledge of hip hop vastly exceeds your own. Once again, I think Wayne is ridiculously overrated but I'm not naive enough to think that his entire fanbase consist mainly of a bunch of morons...

[MacBirdTruth]

The Beatles are the best band ever and it is not even close. You people here have probably have not even heard close to their full catolouge. There wasn't songwriting like it before that, and we will never see it again.

[Hawker]

The great thing about art is that there is no right or wrong, there are no objective truths. Have you failed to realise this or are you just upset that I called a guy you like 'overrated'? I will give you the benefit of the doubt and believe the latter. Because hells yeah I can deny that he made (past tense. remember, he choked on his own vomit and died) incredible music, since I don't care for it at all.

You say "Just because you dont like his music, doesnt mean he's overrated", but it is exactly the other way around. To me, he is vastly overrated. And this is the only way to measure what is good and what is not. How do we judge music without bringing in our own taste and preferences? I guess it would be record sales. And I don't think that is what you want.

I am sure you will agree with these points after thinking them over.

Jimi Hendrix is not overrated. He has undeniable guitar skills. It's like the guitar was an extension of his body and nobody could dominate that thing like he could.

You dont appreciate guitar and you just want a "song." His strength was his guitar and you cant deny his incredible talents with the axe.

[crisoner]

I will never buy or read Blender Mag ever again.

[Smokee]

i think jimi hendrix is overrated since i have little to no patience for those big guitar solo things that gets in the way of songs. i think that is musical mast.ur.bation and while you guys sit in awe of his skills with the guitar, i am impatiently waiting for the song to move on. kinda like when mariah carey or whoever is wailing for a whole 60 seconds - just to show what gifted singers they are.


i can agree with that. his music isn't bad but theres only so much guitar soloing i can take. only reason i figure hes legendary is everyone that plays guitar practically worships him.

[hito da god]

nirvana is so overrated it isn't even funny... they weren't even the best band of their decade :oldlol:

haven't heard enough beatles to say whether they're overrated or not.

if you think jimi hendrix is overrated, then i don't respect your ear/appreciation for music.

and to stay on topic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zyBGhy0hFQ

tupac isn't overrated.

[hito da god]

i'm pretty sure they and Elvis are credited with changing music and bringing about 'rock' as we know it.
:oldlol: have u ever heard of chuck berry?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0YUA3yTUss

[hito da god]

One dumbed-down, uneducated, simple-minded, ignorant, ghetto @ss audience. Unfortunately the radio networks across the globe shove this $hit down our throats just like they do with Soulja Boy to the point that we start thinking "Hey since everyone else likes it... I'll follow the trend."

Garbage.
had to be a texan :rolleyes:

i went to high school with kids who are in [traditional and "new"] ivy league schools that are huge lil wayne fans

fail

[Doomsday Dallas]

Besides -primetime-,... I want the ages of everybody that thinks that 2pac is the most overrated.

I don't get it? I just don't get it?

Or better yet... List 5 or 10 better rap artists than 2pac.



This is just unbelievable.

[hito da god]

i think jimi hendrix is overrated since i have little to no patience for those big guitar solo things that gets in the way of songs. i think that is musical mast.ur.bation and while you guys sit in awe of his skills with the guitar, i am impatiently waiting for the song to move on. kinda like when mariah carey or whoever is wailing for a whole 60 seconds - just to show what gifted singers they are.
first of all, there's a reason his band was called 'the jimi hendrix experience'

secondly, i've never found any of jimi's solos to be out of the context of the song, especially considering most of them are just that damn good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkxP5gXYb2U

there's no song on earth where a solo like that is uncalled for

[Hawker]

had to be a texan :rolleyes:

i went to high school with kids who are in [traditional and "new"] ivy league schools that are huge lil wayne fans

fail

Like nobody else has the same opinion that he has that isnt texan.

Fail.

Texas > New York.

[kingpala]

I now realize how misinformed some of you are when it comes to Classic Rock.

Let me say something... The Beatles MADE Classic Rock. They basically MADE the genre. You know how many bands followed in their footsteps? Do you know that The Monkees were actually never musicians. They were actors that were about to star in a sitcom which reflected The Beatles a lot. They never played their own instruments, or sang either. They were like Milli Vanilli. When they fired their manager in charge of making their music, and put out their own album of them playing instruments and singing, they were forgotten.

That story was a bit long, but it goes to show how The Beatles were so great that they even tried making a fake band after them.

The Beatles were the start of the British craze. Without them, a lot of British musicians would have never have gotten a lot of exposure in the US.

Plus, after they branched off, The Beatles' members ventured even more into different styles. They started off as a boy band and branched into actual rock and roll artists.

Name ANY band that disbanded and had all of their members still achieve fame and fortune through soloing.

[Lamar Doom]

I have to agree. Tupac really only had one good album (the double disc) in my eyes, and even that was just high brow gangster rap in a world (at the time) saturated with awful stuff. the guy wasn't bad, but he gets way too much credit for being thoughtful and profound, really he was just kind of a hot head dumb ass. no disrespect, but if he wasn't killed he would never be brought up in "great rapper" conversations. i remember Blaze magazine ran their top 50 all time and they had Pac and BIG right after KRS and Rakim. please.

[Doomsday Dallas]

I have to agree. Tupac really only had one good album (the double disc) in my eyes, and even that was just high brow gangster rap in a world (at the time) saturated with awful stuff. the guy wasn't bad, but he gets way too much credit for being thoughtful and profound, really he was just kind of a hot head dumb ass. no disrespect, but if he wasn't killed he would never be brought up in "great rapper" conversations. i remember Blaze magazine ran their top 50 all time and they had Pac and BIG right after KRS and Rakim. please.

Okay, maybe his own death helped him out... but did he not predict his own death?, and also said that he would return? GO try to dig up his dead body to proove that he's dead.

If you listen to this song, you can clearly see he was ahead of his time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecCQ9w0qV8k

If tupac didn't die... the Makaveli alias would suck... So yea... I agree... His death made him #1 GOAT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnDxn89vpZs

Makaveli was the best bart of tupac.

[hito da god]

the guy wasn't bad, but he gets way too much credit for being thoughtful and profound, really he was just kind of a hot head dumb ass.
you must not have listened to much pac

[hito da god]

Texas > New York.
maybe upstate new york...

but the metro nyc area > the entire state of texas

[Doomsday Dallas]

you must not have listened to much pac

You sir... get repped... And you're from NY.

[egghead]

Blender Mag is a joke anyways.

[playtetris]

'pac is definitely overrated; i've been saying this for years.

ask a pac fan what makes him a top 5 (or even higher) rapper of all time. they'll inevitably mention his passion, his emotionality, etc. notice how skills in terms of lyrics and flow don't enter the picture.

now, that rationale is fine, but you have to be conscious of the fact that it's coloured by (or inextricably linked with) his passing. the things that differentiate pac from your above-average west-coast rapper are emotional qualities. you can't divorce these things from the affective experience of his death. would his presence hold as much weight if he was still alive? i'm not so sure. you can't say that his lyrics or flow are better than (or even in the same ballpark as) prime nas, pharoahe monch, rakim, krs...

i like to call this the retrospective bias. it's all over hip hop and society in general. you see it encompassing everyone from biggie, pac to jay dee (i love his production, but he's not the GOAT as his stans claim) to princess diana etc etc

as for the other acts in this thread:
- nirvana = overrated as f*ck. 'nevermind' is NOT a great album.
- hendrix = slightly overrated (don't think he's the GOAT as many do), but he's still a musical genius so it's tolerable
- wayne = overrated (i can enjoy his music in really small doses, but i need to switch off my brain to do so)

[playtetris]

Texas > New York.

:roll:

[Doomsday Dallas]

'pac is definitely overrated; i've been saying this for years.

ask a pac fan what makes him a top 5 (or even higher) rapper of all time. they'll inevitably mention his passion, his emotionality, etc. notice how skills in terms of lyrics and flow don't enter the picture.

now, that rationale is fine, but you have to be conscious of the fact that it's coloured by (or inextricably linked with) his passing. the things that differentiate pac from your above-average west-coast rapper are emotional qualities. you can't divorce these things from the affective experience of his death. would his presence hold as much weight if he was still alive? i'm not so sure. you can't say that his lyrics or flow are better than (or even in the same ballpark as) prime nas, pharoahe monch, rakim, krs...

i like to call this the retrospective bias. it's all over hip hop and society in general. you see it encompassing everyone from biggie, pac to jay dee (i love his production, but he's not the GOAT as his stans claim) to princess diana etc etc


That's what I just said... his death made him GOAT.

But when he returns,... you will call him #1 right?

[blasian]

That's what I just said... his death made him GOAT.

But when he returns,... you will call him #1 right?

I have no problem with someone calling Pac the GOAT if they have a good reason and can back it up. But that reason is just stupid...

[egghead]

'pac is definitely overrated; i've been saying this for years.

ask a pac fan what makes him a top 5 (or even higher) rapper of all time. they'll inevitably mention his passion, his emotionality, etc. notice how skills in terms of lyrics and flow don't enter the picture.

now, that rationale is fine, but you have to be conscious of the fact that it's coloured by (or inextricably linked with) his passing. the things that differentiate pac from your above-average west-coast rapper are emotional qualities. you can't divorce these things from the affective experience of his death. would his presence hold as much weight if he was still alive? i'm not so sure. you can't say that his lyrics or flow are better than (or even in the same ballpark as) prime nas, pharoahe monch, rakim, krs...

i like to call this the retrospective bias. it's all over hip hop and society in general. you see it encompassing everyone from biggie, pac to jay dee (i love his production, but he's not the GOAT as his stans claim) to princess diana etc etc

as for the other acts in this thread:
- nirvana = overrated as f*ck. 'nevermind' is NOT a great album.
- hendrix = slightly overrated (don't think he's the GOAT as many do), but he's still a musical genius so it's tolerable
- wayne = overrated (i can enjoy his music in really small doses, but i need to switch off my brain to do so)
Only thing I agree with is that Nirvana is OR.

[baseketball4life]

that's why we've never heard of that retarded magazine
:roll:


repped

[Kasper]

Well..


This is my first post.. so maybe a tough subject to really post on.. but..

Pac was way better than peeps are giving credit for. When he was alive I always argued that he was not the best. Always thought Biggie was far and away the best. So I wouldnt say I am on his nutz... but you gotta give him credit for being ground breaking.. I mean... he rapped like a poet. I dont think anybody does that today.

I think at least you would have to say Pac was an "artist" , which is more than you can say about any rapper today.

So... overated.. no.

[blasian]

Well..


This is my first post.. so maybe a tough subject to really post on.. but..

Pac was way better than peeps are giving credit for. When he was alive I always argued that he was not the best. Always thought Biggie was far and away the best. So I wouldnt say I am on his nutz... but you gotta give him credit for being ground breaking.. I mean... he rapped like a poet. I dont think anybody does that today.

I think at least you would have to say Pac was an "artist" , which is more than you can say about any rapper today.

So... overated.. no.

There are plenty of rappers out there today that fit that description

[playtetris]

That's what I just said... his death made him GOAT.

But when he returns,... you will call him #1 right?

no... :wtf:

[ROCSteady]

The Beatles are overrated because they are considered the greatest band of all time, despite not having actually invented/brought anything new to rock music. They were not great singers, and a lot of their songs were childish gibberish.

You're a fool for this post. Some of the crap is outdated and corny, but they were pioneers to anyone that knows anything about the progression of modern music.

[Doomsday Dallas]

no... :wtf:

yea.. if tupac returns, will you get on your knees?

[egghead]

You suck at tetris.

[Kasper]

There are plenty of rappers out there today that fit that description


Blasian..

I think you are right... to a degree. Many? No.

Maybe a couple.. but not groundbreaking. Pac started it. Thats the point. And there were a lot of poetic rappers before him.. dont get me wrong, but they were not on his level... and def. didnt have his flow and swagger.

[ROCSteady]

In this case, it clearly does. The song structure of many of their songs are incredible and Sgt. Peppers was the first of its kind using new studio technology. That's innovation, vision and undeniable talent.

You cant compare, soulja boy, wayne or 50 cent to the beatles. Absolutely no way.

EXACTLY what I was gunna post. It actually makes me kinda angry that the Beatles would even be in the same sentence as Soulja Boy, and rap/hip hop music is my greatest passion.

I can understand why people can be turned off by some of the catalog of Beatles music, (i.e. The Ed Sullivan Show era). Some of it shouldn't be received well nowadays, cuz it is mad dated. But if you look at their collective work, some of it is AMAZING, and still can go head to head with any current music of the same type.

[playtetris]

You suck at tetris.


yea.. if tupac returns, will you get on your knees?

some incisive comments in this thread :rolleyes:

[hito da god]

That's what I just said... his death made him GOAT.

But when he returns,... you will call him #1 right?
i think i understand what you're getting at...

if pac does [and i know he won't cuz he's dead but i'm speaking completely hypothetically] come back he'd be the greatest artist the world has ever seen. his life will have been made into a piece of art, and i don't know of anybody who has gone that hard before lol

but back on pac. what made him so appealing to me was all the different faces of 2pac. pac, like you and me and anybody else in this world had different faces. there was aggressive pac. introspective pac. playa playa pac. politically charged pac. super sensitive pac. the list goes on and on, and that's what made him so great imo, was that his music was something you could relate to. he wasn't the most gifted writer, i don't think anybody will try and argue that, but he had that "it" factor that somebody like [on a much much MUCH smaller scale] kanye has in his writing. that extra 'something' that makes you relate to whatever mood he's in on a given track. i wish i could articulate it better, but i guess i'm rusty since i took eight months off from school :confusedshrug:

[blasian]

yea.. if tupac returns, will you get on your knees?

You're the primary example of why people think Pac is overrated. His stans don't just like him, they glorify him like he's some kind of prophet lol. He was a very smart, passionate and articulate man. He was also contradictory, a loud mouth, and he talked a whole lot of shit. The man didn't become a "gangsta" until after he started rapping. Before thug life, there was this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3L0oo9GcTQ

He created an image for himself and got so caught up in it that it led to his own destruction.

[blasian]

i think i understand what you're getting at...

if pac does [and i know he won't cuz he's dead but i'm speaking completely hypothetically] come back he'd be the greatest artist the world has ever seen. his life will have been made into a piece of art, and i don't know of anybody who has gone that hard before lol

but back on pac. what made him so appealing to me was all the different faces of 2pac. pac, like you and me and anybody else in this world had different faces. there was aggressive pac. introspective pac. playa playa pac. politically charged pac. super sensitive pac. the list goes on and on, and that's what made him so great imo, was that his music was something you could relate to. he wasn't the most gifted writer, i don't think anybody will try and argue that, but he had that "it" factor that somebody like [on a much much MUCH smaller scale] kanye has in his writing. that extra 'something' that makes you relate to whatever mood he's in on a given track. i wish i could articulate it better, but i guess i'm rusty since i took eight months off from school :confusedshrug:


I understand what you're saying. Pac was a very compelling figure, arguably the most interesting and compelling rapper ever. The problem is that too many people have mixed up Tupac the man with Tupac the rapper. I said it before, you take away all the controversy, the larger than life persona, etc, and just look at his rapping ability, no way is he the GOAT.

I will say however, that along with the mainstream overrating him, he's also become underrated by many hip hop heads. Pac could be very lyrical and he did develop a very good flow as his career progressed. Not the GOAT flow, but a good flow nonetheless. He also had incredible mic presence and great songwriting skills.

[SCREWstonRockets]

Uhhhh... Lil' Wayne, Jay Z, and 50 Cent might have something to say about that in terms of being overrated.



Thank You. That is all that needs to be said.

[hito da god]

He created an image for himself and got so caught up in it that it led to his own destruction.
i think you just got at what i was trying to say, or at least part of it. and one of the reasons why i think pac was so brilliant :applause:

we all create images for ourselves, and pac reflected that in his music. we're all contradictory in one sense or another... most of us just refuse to admit or acknowledge it. what you described was pac's tragic flaw, and only makes him a more interesting figure in my eyes

[hito da god]

no way is he the GOAT.
i agree

[blasian]

i agree

I'm in a hip hop group on facebook and people were discussing this there. The conversation turned into which rapper had the worst stans. This was a really good breakdown that someone came up with.

"heres my description of fans (stans):

tupac: by far the craziest, most irrational fan you'll meet. in an argument, they stray away from anything music related and will talk about how the government assassinated him (*eye roll*)

eminem: basically they think he's the greatest ever, which is annoying, cuz he's not (imo of course). there are other rappers with similar skills to him....but many eminem fans don't even know of them. dont get me started on the ones who arent even rap fans

nas: swear up and down that he's intelligent, when he's not....he just reads alot...they often fail to realize that he isnt really doing anything new and innovative most of the time...at least they're (somewhat) knowledgeable, moreso than some other stans

jay: these ones have a good chance of being the worst, because the good majority of them dont know sh*t about rap....discussion often lead to a conversation about how much money jay has, or how many trends he sets....get off his dick please, its not your money"

[Kasper]

Who is the "GOAT" according to most of you?

As far as Hip Hop goes?

[Doomsday Dallas]

i think i understand what you're getting at...

if pac does [and i know he won't cuz he's dead but i'm speaking completely hypothetically] come back he'd be the greatest artist the world has ever seen. his life will have been made into a piece of art, and i don't know of anybody who has gone that hard before lol


That's all I wanted to hear... and there is still a .001% chance of that happening IMO.

All I'm saying is that I know there was more to Pac's death than what people see it as. There was obviously a conspiracy... how deep that conspiracy goes is the question.

Just remember he got killed on the strip of Las Vegas,... an his killer is supposedly still at large.

[Kasper]

Actually.. Blasian.. I'm most interested in who you think is the best... or top 5?

You seem to have a good grasp on the subject?

[Kasper]

That's all I wanted to hear... and there is still a .001% chance of that happening IMO.

All I'm saying is that I know there was more to Pac's death than what people see it as. There was obviously a conspiracy... how deep that conspiracy goes is the question.

Just remember he got killed on the strip of Las Vegas,... an his killer is supposedly still at large.


And dude... I've lurked enough to know what you bring to this whole message board...

dude... really???

Everything is a conspiracy with you?? I mean everything?

WTF? Ghey. Just Ghey.

[blasian]

Actually.. Blasian.. I'm most interested in who you think is the best... or top 5?

You seem to have a good grasp on the subject?

my list changes a lot actually. i dont really have a set order. but my top five would probably be

Rakim
Nas
KRS One
Big Daddy Kane
Ice Cube

[Kasper]

my list changes a lot actually. i dont really have a set order. but my top five would probably be

Rakim
Nas
KRS One
Big Daddy Kane
Ice Cube


Nice...

I would mostly agree... although mine would be:


Rakim
Biggie
Nas
KRS
Pac

and I'm not saying where I would put either of them.. but I think Pun and Prodgy are in there... and a LOT that I am leaving out.

[IBLEEDGREEN20]

Uhhhh... Lil' Wayne, Jay Z, and 50 Cent might have something to say about that in terms of being overrated.

Let's think about it... yes 2pac has been called the greatest, but his music was actually good...

Lil Wayne is being called one of the greatest rappers ever... And he might be personably responsible for the death of Hip-Hop. His music is pure crap and it's all over the radio.

Lil Wayne = the most overrated piece of $hit I've ever heard. He's Responsible for sending a large percentage of the black community to a new level of ignorance and stupidity.

sneaking jay-z into that sentence with 50 cent and lil wayne is insane, man. if you think jay-z is overrated in the game, thats your opinion.. but you can only take that opinion so far... jay-z is from another era of the game... he gained his respect.. lil wayne made one nasty mix tape and randomly started saying he is the best rapper alive..

lil wayne calls himself the best rapper alive.. jay-z is the best rapper alive.. and jay-z is the closest thing to a "legendary" rapper like biggie or tupac that there is in the game, with nas behind him..

[blasian]

Nice...

I would mostly agree... although mine would be:


Rakim
Biggie
Nas
KRS
Pac

and I'm not saying where I would put either of them.. but I think Pun and Prodgy are in there... and a LOT that I am leaving out.

If we were talking Prodigy during the Infamous/Hell on Earth era then I'd probably agree. During that time, P was arguably the third best NY rapper behind Nas and Jay. But the dude has fallen off to embarassingly bad levels. His raps barely rhyme anymore. Pun is a good choice. The man's flow was ridiculous, not sure if I'd put him in a top ten but more than likely top 20. To round out my top ten I'd probably have Jay, Biggie, Pac, G Rap, and Common

[Kasper]

G Rap and Common without question...

And I agree with what you say about Prodigy... but as far as his prime... yep... he is one of the best ever... i still would say The Infamous was the best hip hop record ever...

and as far as Common goes.. I would have put him behind Mos and Talib... but I saw him in concert ... and he was REDICULOUS. I mean for real... he was no joke. And I have seen A LOT of concerts.. including Biggie... and this is my list of hip hop cats to see in person.... BIG... Busta.... Common.... Jay.

[IBLEEDGREEN20]

If we were talking Prodigy during the Infamous/Hell on Earth era then I'd probably agree. During that time, P was arguably the third best NY rapper behind Nas and Jay. But the dude has fallen off to embarassingly bad levels. His raps barely rhyme anymore. Pun is a good choice. The man's flow was ridiculous, not sure if I'd put him in a top ten but more than likely top 20. To round out my top ten I'd probably have Jay, Biggie, Pac, G Rap, and Common

so you really think prodigy was a better rapper than dmx back in those days? its dark and hell is hot is better than anything mobb deep put out after hell on earth...

damn DMX gets no credit on ISH, whatsoever..

dmxs catalogue of music is ridiculous..

[Kasper]

I'm a HUGE X fan... but he cant touch Prodigy and Havoc.. not even close.

[IBLEEDGREEN20]

I'm a HUGE X fan... but he cant touch Prodigy and Havoc.. not even close.
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

are you serious?

[Kasper]

Yep... and I've seen DMX in person twice... and again.. I'm a HUGE fan... but not anywhere close to Mobb

[IBLEEDGREEN20]

Yep... and I've seen DMX in person twice... and again.. I'm a HUGE fan... but not anywhere close to Mobb

in what ways is dmx no where close to mobb deep all time?.. that boggles my mind..

mobb deep is known as one of the best groups * hav and p* of all time, but they arent better than outkast all time.. and prodigy AND havoc arent better than dmx all time..

[Kasper]

And dont forget the fact that Prodigy is one of the best with the lyrics... but Havoc is one of the best producers out there.

[blasian]

so you really think prodigy was a better rapper than dmx back in those days? its dark and hell is hot is better than anything mobb deep put out after hell on earth...

damn DMX gets no credit on ISH, whatsoever..

dmxs catalogue of music is ridiculous..

Notice how I said Infamous/Hell on Earth Era. That was 95-96. It's Dark dropped in '98. Eh, I don't think X's catalogue is that great. He has one classic imo with It's Dark. Flesh of my Flesh and And then There Was X were both good, then everything after that was kind of shitty. As for prime X vs. prime Prodigy, its a tough call. X had him beat in charisma and mic presence. But prime Prodigy was a far better lyricist imo. X scared the hell out of you with his passion, voice, and adlibs. Prodigy spoke in a normal tone yet still had the same effect. He could scare you without using gimmicks.
"Rock you in your face, stab your brain with your nosebone."
Come onnnnnn. lol

And Infamous>It's Dark

[Kasper]

in what ways is dmx no where close to mobb deep all time?.. that boggles my mind..


Well...


I'll say that I'm with you as far as loving X.. but Havoc was no joke with the beats... and... I'm assuming you probably know that while Prodigy is one of the best with the Lyrics... X had most of his **** written by the LOX....

But besides that?....


Its not hard to tell that Mobb is way... way... ****ing.. WAY better than DMX??

[IBLEEDGREEN20]

Well...


I'll say that I'm with you as far as loving X.. but Havoc was no joke with the beats... and... I'm assuming you probably know that while Prodigy is one of the best with the Lyrics... X had most of his **** written by the LOX....

But besides that?....


Its not hard to tell that Mobb is way... way... ****ing.. WAY better than DMX??

dude.. dmx had swizzy when he was killin' it.. whats next?.. havoc produced more heat back then than swizzy too?

[Kasper]

Notice how I said Infamous/Hell on Earth Era. That was 95-96. It's Dark dropped in '98. Eh, I don't think X's catalogue is that great. He has one classic imo with It's Dark. Flesh of my Flesh and And then There Was X were both good, then everything after that was kind of shitty. As for prime X vs. prime Prodigy, its a tough call. X had him beat in charisma and mic presence. But prime Prodigy was a far better lyricist imo. X scared the hell out of you with his passion, voice, and adlibs. Prodigy spoke in a normal tone yet still had the same effect. He could scare you without using gimmicks.
"Rock you in your face, stab your brain with your nosebone."
Come onnnnnn. lol

And Infamous>It's Dark


Blasian is def. on point with that....

I had some to add... but he pretty much said it all.... I will only say that Mobb in their prime was no joke... Prodigy would say **** and not even rhyme.. .and it just sounded poetic...nothing today compares.

[IBLEEDGREEN20]

Blasian is def. on point with that....

I had some to add... but he pretty much said it all.... I will only say that Mobb in their prime was no joke... Prodigy would say **** and not even rhyme.. .and it just sounded poetic...nothing today compares.

thats his flow now

[Kasper]

dude.. dmx had swizzy when he was killin' it.. whats next?.. havoc produced more heat back then than swizzy too?


Yes... to quote you " havoc produced more heat back then than swizzy".. and not even close.

[blasian]

dude.. dmx had swizzy when he was killin' it.. whats next?.. havoc produced more heat back then than swizzy too?

Havoc>Swizz

Show me a Swizz beat that can **** with these

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZobn5ByPrc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXUpfpYy-oA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZmUl7-vY54

[Doomsday Dallas]

sneaking jay-z into that sentence with 50 cent and lil wayne is insane, man. if you think jay-z is overrated in the game, thats your opinion.. but you can only take that opinion so far... jay-z is from another era of the game... he gained his respect.. lil wayne made one nasty mix tape and randomly started saying he is the best rapper alive..

lil wayne calls himself the best rapper alive.. jay-z is the best rapper alive.. and jay-z is the closest thing to a "legendary" rapper like biggie or tupac that there is in the game, with nas behind him..

Okay... I'll back off from the Jay Z stuff... only because it's a personal opinion.

But I hate the fact that I have to agree with that.

But hey... he's the CEO of Hip-Hop right? He's the HEAD of the governmnet of Hip Hop right?

Ya know people use to always critisize me for loving music that was too mainstream... and now it's time that I use that same critisism against Jay Z. Maybe if Jay Z would go somewhere and die... I might respect him like I do with Tupac. However, ALL EYES ON ME was the greatest rap album ever.... ever.... ever.... even better than WU-Tang Forever because it was followed up with Makaveli.


On a side note....
Let's be honest... Jay Z's music kinda sucks (my opinion).

[blasian]

However, ALL EYES ON ME was the greatest rap album ever.... ever.... ever.... even better than WU-Tang Forever because it was followed up with Makaveli.


On a side note....
Let's be honest... Jay Z's music kinda sucks (my opinion).

Alll Eyez On Me isn't even the best Tupac album

[IBLEEDGREEN20]

Okay... I'll back off from the Jay Z stuff... only because it's a personal opinion.

But I hate the fact that I have to agree with that.

But hey... he's the CEO of Hip-Hop right? He's the HEAD of the governmnet of Hip Hop right?

Ya know people use to always critisize me for loving music that was too mainstream... and now it's time that I use that same critisism against Jay Z. Maybe if Jay Z would go somewhere and die... I might respect him like I do with Tupac. However, ALL EYES ON ME was the greatest rap album ever.... ever.... ever.... even better than WU-Tang Forever because it was followed up with Makaveli.


On a side note....
Let's be honest... Jay Z's music kinda sucks (my opinion).

i really love jay-zs music... the blueprint/reasonable doubt/black album are my 3 favorite jay albums... song cry is an amazing song on blueprint... one of my favorite jay songs of all time..

i also love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DRSA7C1fhc

classic ^ remember the day i bought that ruff rydas album..

[Kasper]

All Eyez was hot for sure.. but.. yeah... it wasnt his best at all.

[IBLEEDGREEN20]

Okay... I'll back off from the Jay Z stuff... only because it's a personal opinion.

But I hate the fact that I have to agree with that.

But hey... he's the CEO of Hip-Hop right? He's the HEAD of the governmnet of Hip Hop right?

Ya know people use to always critisize me for loving music that was too mainstream... and now it's time that I use that same critisism against Jay Z. Maybe if Jay Z would go somewhere and die... I might respect him like I do with Tupac. However, ALL EYES ON ME was the greatest rap album ever.... ever.... ever.... even better than WU-Tang Forever because it was followed up with Makaveli.

On a side note....
Let's be honest... Jay Z's music kinda sucks (my opinion).

btw.. enter the 36 chambers is better than wu tang forever... without a doubt.. listen to that album.

[playtetris]

i think you just got at what i was trying to say, or at least part of it. and one of the reasons why i think pac was so brilliant :applause:

we all create images for ourselves, and pac reflected that in his music. we're all contradictory in one sense or another... most of us just refuse to admit or acknowledge it. what you described was pac's tragic flaw, and only makes him a more interesting figure in my eyes

remind me why you don't like nas again? :lol j/k

[Doomsday Dallas]

btw.. enter the 36 chambers is better than wu tang forever... without a doubt.. listen to that album.

That's like saying Terminator was better than T2.

But if you were to say Liguid Swords was better than Wu Tang Forever... then we might somehow have some kind of a debate.

[Kasper]

btw.. enter the 36 chambers is better than wu tang forever... without a doubt.. listen to that album.


36 Chambers is top 10 for sure... who disagrees with this??

[Kasper]

That's like saying Terminator was better than T2.

But if you were to say Liguid Swords was better than Wu Tang Forever... then me might somehow have some kind of a debate.

I'll put my vote in for Liquid Swords

[blasian]

That's like saying Terminator was better than T2.

But if you were to say Liguid Swords was better than Wu Tang Forever... then me might somehow have some kind of a debate.

I'm confused. Does this mean you think Wu-Tang Forever is better than Enter the Wu?

[IBLEEDGREEN20]

Havoc>Swizz

Show me a Swizz beat that can **** with these

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZobn5ByPrc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXUpfpYy-oA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZmUl7-vY54




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hBoaMPsjEM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B8fj5HkPSY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxh2t4hbq6s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DRSA7C1fhc

[playtetris]

36 Chambers is top 10 for sure... who disagrees with this??

i don't disagree. a tougher question is which is the best wu album:

cuban linx
liquid swords
36 chambers ?

[playtetris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hBoaMPsjEM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B8fj5HkPSY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxh2t4hbq6s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DRSA7C1fhc

you can't be serious! i listened to the first two, they're absolute trash. shouldn't ever be in the same sentence (make that BOOK) as havoc's 'infamous' era beats.

[Doomsday Dallas]

cuban linx
liquid swords
36 chambers ?

Liquid Swords

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmnOJ0bq1Gw&feature=related

Greatest Song on the album.

[Kasper]

i don't disagree. a tougher question is which is the best wu album:

cuban linx
liquid swords
36 chambers ?

Tetris... nice....


I would say 36 Chambers.. cuz it made me love hip hop again... but to be honest... Cuban Linx is up there with it... and followed CLOSELY with LS.... ****... conundrum.

[IBLEEDGREEN20]

you can't be serious! i listened to the first two, they're absolute trash. shouldn't ever be in the same sentence (make that BOOK) as havoc's 'infamous' era beats.

hm, alright.. i respect your opinion..

i just posted a few old swizz jay-z collabs.. i really enjoy swizz beatz production, as you enjoy havocs

[blasian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hBoaMPsjEM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B8fj5HkPSY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxh2t4hbq6s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DRSA7C1fhc

No way homie. Survival of the Fittest and Shook Ones Pt. II are hip hop CLASSICS. Shook Ones Pt. II in particular is one of the greatest rap songs of all time. Those beats you posted are catchy but there's no way they're ****ing with the Mobb tracks. Swizzy's beats are catchy. Prime Havoc's beats are art. They create moods, they take you to the gritty streets of NY. None of Swizzy's beats have that effect.

[kingpala]

WWIII is one of the greatest tracks of all-time. lol

I'm biased though. I used to own only 3 cds back then; the Ruff Ryders II, Chronic 2000, and Marshall Mathers LP...

[IBLEEDGREEN20]

No way homie. Survival of the Fittest and Shook Ones Pt. II are hip hop CLASSICS. Shook Ones Pt. II in particular is one of the greatest rap songs of all time. Those beats you posted are catchy but there's no way they're ****ing with the Mobb tracks. Swizzy's beats are catchy. Prime Havoc's beats are art. They create moods, they take you to the gritty streets of NY. None of Swizzy's beats have that effect.

alright

[Kasper]

Ok.. as far as Hip Hop goes.. I have to go with man crush with a few posters...

Blasian
IBLEEDGREEN
Tetris

on point

[kingpala]

No offense to IBG, but I do believe you're more of a modern hip-hop fan. You like Weezy, 50, Jeezy, etc. blasian is sort of an oldie type of guy from what I've read. Obviously you both disagree with each other.

[blasian]

WWIII is one of the greatest tracks of all-time. lol

I'm biased though. I used to own only 3 cds back then; the Ruff Ryders II, Chronic 2000, and Marshall Mathers LP...

Lol. Search for about 20 GOAT rap songs list, I guarantee Shook Ones Pt. II will have more appeances than WWIII. WWIII is a classic to Ruff Ryda fans. Shook Ones is a classic to hip hop fans period.

[Kasper]

No way homie. Survival of the Fittest and Shook Ones Pt. II are hip hop CLASSICS. Shook Ones Pt. II in particular is one of the greatest rap songs of all time. Those beats you posted are catchy but there's no way they're ****ing with the Mobb tracks. Swizzy's beats are catchy. Prime Havoc's beats are art. They create moods, they take you to the gritty streets of NY. None of Swizzy's beats have that effect.


this

[IBLEEDGREEN20]

No offense to IBG, but I do believe you're more of a modern hip-hop fan. You like Weezy, 50, Jeezy, etc. blasian is sort of an oldie type of guy from what I've read. Obviously you both disagree with each other.

i cant stand lil wayne now, mainly because of how bad his lyrics have gotten..

50 used to be nasty.. he had potential

i listen to new hip hop, old hip hop..

[blasian]

No offense to IBG, but I do believe you're more of a modern hip-hop fan. You like Weezy, 50, Jeezy, etc. blasian is sort of an oldie type of guy from what I've read. Obviously you both disagree with each other.

Eh, we've got different preferences true, but I wouldn't say that I'm solely an oldschool hip hop fan. I don't hate Weezy, Carter II is a dope album imo. I used to really like 50 and even Jeezy has his moments. I'm also not one of those cats who claim that HIP HOP IS DEAD. There are def. plenty of talented new school rappers out there. But yes, ultimately I do think this era of hip hop is weak(no Bulls) compared to the early to mid 90s.

[IBLEEDGREEN20]

Lol. Search for about 20 GOAT rap songs list, I guarantee Shook Ones Pt. II will have more appeances than WWIII. WWIII is a classic to Ruff Ryda fans. Shook Ones is a classic to hip hop fans period.

yes, i cant argue that, i guess its all about taste.. the new jeezy album is actually really really solid, and i am listening to it right now, but it doesnt mean that i dont respect old school hip hop, ya know?

but- the only thing that keeps the modern day mobb deep songs from being horrible is alchemist.... hes a beast...

he is one of my favorite producers, IMO he has that gritty sound that havoc has, ya know?

[Kasper]

Exactly.

Weezy was hot for a minute...but lately?... not so sure... the more dudes hopping on his D1ck the more I think maybe no.... not so sure.

Old.. new... I'm starting to question what is worth listening.

[blasian]

yes, i cant argue that, i guess its all about taste..

but- the only thing that keeps the modern day mobb deep songs unlistenable is alchemist.... hes a beast...

he is one of my favorite producers, IMO he has that gritty sound that havoc has, ya know?

Oh yea, Alch is dope. He's the reason why I like Return of the Mac so much, cuz it sure as hell isn't Prodigy lol.. And We Gonna Make It is one of my fave beats ever.

[blasian]

Nice discussion fellas. I've got class tomorrow so I'm out. Peace...

[IBLEEDGREEN20]

Exactly.

Weezy was hot for a minute...but lately?... not so sure... the more dudes hopping on his D1ck the more I think maybe no.... not so sure.

Old.. new... I'm starting to question what is worth listening.

lil wayne got caught up in his own hype, and planned it all perfectly so that he would make alot of money off the carter 3.. pretty much all the leaking albums, the push backs.. all that.. earned lil wayne a nice paycheck at the end of the day.. so i respect the man for that, but as far as his lyrical content in 2008 is concerned...

no way the best rapper alive..

[Kasper]

yes, i cant argue that, i guess its all about taste.. the new jeezy album is actually really really solid, and i am listening to it right now, but it doesnt mean that i dont respect old school hip hop, ya know?

but- the only thing that keeps the modern day mobb deep songs from being horrible is alchemist.... hes a beast...

he is one of my favorite producers, IMO he has that gritty sound that havoc has, ya know?


Bleed.. I would agree with your post... Mobb .. now is a joke with no help... dont really know why.... but... ****.

[Kasper]

lil wayne got caught up in his own hype, and planned it all perfectly so that he would make alot of money off the carter 3.. pretty much all the leaking albums, the push backs.. all that.. earned lil wayne a nice paycheck at the end of the day.. so i respect the man for that, but as far as his lyrical content in 2008 is concerned...

no way the best rapper alive..


Dont get me wrong.. I was the biggest Weezy supporter alive ... I used to say it was him and BG from CM back in the day.... just lately.... IDK.

[ROCSteady]

Okay... I'll back off from the Jay Z stuff... only because it's a personal opinion.

But I hate the fact that I have to agree with that.

But hey... he's the CEO of Hip-Hop right? He's the HEAD of the governmnet of Hip Hop right?

Ya know people use to always critisize me for loving music that was too mainstream... and now it's time that I use that same critisism against Jay Z. Maybe if Jay Z would go somewhere and die... I might respect him like I do with Tupac. However, ALL EYES ON ME was the greatest rap album ever.... ever.... ever.... even better than WU-Tang Forever because it was followed up with Makaveli.


On a side note....
Let's be honest... Jay Z's music kinda sucks (my opinion).

You're out of your mind. Reasonable Doubt, The Blueprint, and The Black Album rank very high on some of the best rap albums ever imo.

[IBLEEDGREEN20]

Bleed.. I would agree with your post... Mobb .. now is a joke with no help... dont really know why.... but... ****.

alchemist produced " return of the mac" prodigys mixtape that dropped in 2007, and it was pretty decent.. " stuck to you" is a crazy beat, alc killed it... killed that entire project, actually...

and h.n.i.c is a classic- which will ALWAYS be overlooked..

hm, you true mobb deep fans got me reminissing.. damn..

[IBLEEDGREEN20]

You're out of your mind. Reasonable Doubt, The Blueprint, and The Black Album rank very high on some of the best rap albums ever imo.

haha yes, i said that exact same thing:cheers: :cheers:

[FashionIssues]

well if pac actually was a rapper rather than a poet using rap to get his words across, then yes, he is overrated. i've known that since brenda got a baby, the message hit more than the style. he is not the best emcee in many regards, but i am more an emotional listener rather than picking out who has the best delivery and such in their craft. so i am not going to argue who is the best.

when people are asked who is the greatest, they always seem to think about style, lyrical prowess, beats, sales, etc...there's too much argument there. there will always be nice emcees who spit better than their counterparts in any generation. there will always be once in a lifetime emcees. but it's about the impact you make in this shallow industry. though he was controversial, he had the luxury to make the type of records he wanted to make. that's seldom now. he had calculated thoughts, timeless thoughts. don't let his repulsive attitude sway you in a bad place because the only thing underrated are his true feelings.

[IBLEEDGREEN20]

well if pac actually was a rapper rather than a poet using rap to get his words across, then yes, he is overrated. i've known that since brenda got a baby, the message hit more than the style. he is not the best emcee in many regards, but i am more an emotional listener rather than picking out who has the best delivery and such in their craft. so i am not going to argue who is the best.

when people are asked who is the greatest, they always seem to think about style, lyrical prowess, beats, sales, etc...there's too much argument there. there will always be nice emcees who spit better than their counterparts in any generation. there will always be once in a lifetime emcees. but it's about the impact you make in this shallow industry. though he was controversial, he had the luxury to make the type of records he wanted to make. that's seldom now. he had calculated thoughts, timeless thoughts. don't let his repulsive attitude sway you in a bad place because the only thing underrated are his true feelings.

exactly, which is why its so hard for the biggie vs pac comparison sometimes, because pacs lyrics were so emotional, its almost hard not to side with him just because he was so devouted to his craft.. but biggie was also very good at what he did... just a totally different way

[Kasper]

H.N.I.C. was a classic for sure.

And I will love pac to the end...I remember when I was in HS (yes older than most of you) when peeps used to ask me how the **** I knew who Pac was.

But I think without question BIG was a better rapper than Pac... sorry.. just my opinion.?

[lefthook00]

2pac is the goat. He is also still UNDERRATED b/c most people only think of him as a musician. Dude really could have changed sh*t. He str8 up had the President sweatin'. He was that smart. None of these rap guys, Biggie, Hov, Nas, KRS, Rakim, Wu, Dre are as smart as him, they don't understand life like Pac did, they just dont "get it." They don't have a mind like Pac's.

[ROCSteady]

No way homie. Survival of the Fittest and Shook Ones Pt. II are hip hop CLASSICS. Shook Ones Pt. II in particular is one of the greatest rap songs of all time. Those beats you posted are catchy but there's no way they're ****ing with the Mobb tracks. Swizzy's beats are catchy. Prime Havoc's beats are art. They create moods, they take you to the gritty streets of NY. None of Swizzy's beats have that effect.

I agree 110% with this. Havoc and RZA beats were what made me fall in love with Hip Hop to begin with. The nuances in each production are simple compared to some of the stuff we have heard over the past decade or whatever, but they suggest a certain texture of a culture and experience that can penetrate to the bone. I love Swizz Beatz' productions too, but they are more gimmicky. They're fun and loud and busy, but do not project any type of substance like Premier, Havoc, RZA, & Pete Rock.

[Kasper]

2pac is the goat. He is also still UNDERRATED b/c most people only think of him as a musician. Dude really could have changed sh*t. He str8 up had the President sweatin'. He was that smart. None of these rap guys, Biggie, Hov, Nas, KRS, Rakim, Wu, Dre are as smart as him, they don't understand life like Pac did, they just dont "get it." They don't have a mind like Pac's.


Well... I need to ask.. what exactly could he have "changed ****"...

not to be a d1ck... but not sure what you mean.

[Kasper]

I agree 110% with this. Havoc and RZA beats were what made me fall in love with Hip Hop to begin with. The nuances in each production are simple compared to some of the stuff we have heard over the past decade or whatever, but they suggest a certain texture of a culture and experience that can penetrate to the bone. I love Swizz Beatz' produtiuons too, but they are more gimmicky. They're fun and loud and busy, but do not project any type of substance like Premier, Havoc, RZA, & Pete Rock.


You sir... know about hip hop.... I couldnt agree more.

[ROCSteady]

2pac is the goat. He is also still UNDERRATED b/c most people only think of him as a musician. Dude really could have changed sh*t. He str8 up had the President sweatin'. He was that smart. None of these rap guys, Biggie, Hov, Nas, KRS, Rakim, Wu, Dre are as smart as him, they don't understand life like Pac did, they just dont "get it." They don't have a mind like Pac's.

I have his poetry book, and he was a VERY lukewarm poet. Not saying he sucks, but his poetry was pretty underwhelming and quite sophomoric.

[ElPigto]

I now realize how misinformed some of you are when it comes to Classic Rock.

Let me say something... The Beatles MADE Classic Rock. They basically MADE the genre. You know how many bands followed in their footsteps? Do you know that The Monkees were actually never musicians. They were actors that were about to star in a sitcom which reflected The Beatles a lot. They never played their own instruments, or sang either. They were like Milli Vanilli. When they fired their manager in charge of making their music, and put out their own album of them playing instruments and singing, they were forgotten.

That story was a bit long, but it goes to show how The Beatles were so great that they even tried making a fake band after them.

The Beatles were the start of the British craze. Without them, a lot of British musicians would have never have gotten a lot of exposure in the US.

Plus, after they branched off, The Beatles' members ventured even more into different styles. They started off as a boy band and branched into actual rock and roll artists.

Name ANY band that disbanded and had all of their members still achieve fame and fortune through soloing.

Excellent post.

I hate the Beatles, but their contribution to music cannot be denied. You might think they are overrated or whatever but because of them the British craze started. British blues started. SGT Peppers was significant because of the sounds and of course the album cover. No other band before the Beatles had made such an elaborate album cover before.

And btw, the Beatles and Elvis were not the ones to start Rock and Roll, they made it famous but no way in hell the created this music.

Rocket 88 is probably one of the first songs to start rock and roll... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbfnh1oVTk0

Bill Haley and the Comets, another band that came along with Rock and Roll http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5fsqYctXgM

My boy Chuck Berry as well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RAfxiyMKAk&feature=related

Seriously guys, learn some Rock and Roll history before spouting sh!t our your a$$es

[playtetris]

I agree 110% with this. Havoc and RZA beats were what made me fall in love with Hip Hop to begin with. The nuances in each production are simple compared to some of the stuff we have heard over the past decade or whatever, but they suggest a certain texture of a culture and experience that can penetrate to the bone. I love Swizz Beatz' productions too, but they are more gimmicky. They're fun and loud and busy, but do not project any type of substance like Premier, Havoc, RZA, & Pete Rock.

too true.
let's take the shook ones beat, for instance:
starts off with a dirty rimshot and the sirens. drops the bassline for a second, and a reverbed-the-f*ck-out snare, then hav takes them both away. BAM, drums and bass kick back in with the eeriest piano loop ever put to wax. this joint sounds like it's recorded in a warehouse in queens.

in the end, it's all subjective. certain things appeal to my ear while they wouldn't to another. that's why pac is revered by some as the GOAT, and i can't stand listening to him for more than 4-5 joints at a time (something about his cadence bothers me). it's also why IBG can say he prefers swizz to hav, which to me makes no sense at all. music's a wonderful thing!

[ikoiko]

Excellent post.

I hate the Beatles, but their contribution to music cannot be denied. You might think they are overrated or whatever but because of them the British craze started. British blues started. SGT Peppers was significant because of the sounds and of course the album cover. No other band before the Beatles had made such an elaborate album cover before.

And btw, the Beatles and Elvis were not the ones to start Rock and Roll, they made it famous but no way in hell the created this music.

Rocket 88 is probably one of the first songs to start rock and roll... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbfnh1oVTk0

Bill Haley and the Comets, another band that came along with Rock and Roll http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5fsqYctXgM

My boy Chuck Berry as well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RAfxiyMKAk&feature=related

Seriously guys, learn some Rock and Roll history before spouting sh!t our your a$$es

excellent post.

[ikoiko]

Jimi Hendrix is not overrated. He has undeniable guitar skills. It's like the guitar was an extension of his body and nobody could dominate that thing like he could.

You dont appreciate guitar and you just want a "song." His strength was his guitar and you cant deny his incredible talents with the axe.

well yeah, he had undeniable guitar skills. but going from that to saying that i must agree with you that hendrix was so great is kinda like me saying "celine dion can hit a note like nobody else. she has complete control over her voice, so you can't deny that her music is incredible and that she might be the GOAT"

see?

[Dasher]

You're a fool for this post. Some of the crap is outdated and corny, but they were pioneers to anyone that knows anything about the progression of modern music.The majority of their catalogue was outdated and corny when it was released. It is hard for me to make them the greatest band of all-time when they were just as much a contrived phenomenom as The Monkees. Their manager bought up their records and paid girls to go mad when they appeared. People saw this and The Beatles bandwagon began. They were not even the first people to do this as Frank Sinatra's manager did the same thing. The British invasion would have happened anyway, it was inevitable. There were other blues bands playing in England, and they could have easily filled that niche. The Kinks could have easily been The Beatles.

[ROCSteady]

The majority of their catalogue was outdated and corny when it was released. It is hard for me to make them the greatest band of all-time when they were just as much a contrived phenomenom as The Monkees. Their manager bought up their records and paid girls to go mad when they appeared. People saw this and The Beatles bandwagon began. They were not even the first people to do this as Frank Sinatra's manager did the same thing. The British invasion would have happened anyway, it was inevitable. There were other blues bands playing in England, and they could have easily filled that niche. The Kinks could have easily been The Beatles.

Wow. Too bad the whole idea of the Monkees was inspired from the Beatles film, A Hard Days Night. And your ingenious comparison is hilarious. The Monkees were the subject of a FICTIONAL television show. Auditions for hundreds of dudes that had some sort of talent. To say that is as contrived as paying some girls to appear fan frenzy is ignorant. You're likening manufacturing to marketing.

[Dasher]

Wow. Too bad the whole idea of the Monkees was inspired from the Beatles film, A Hard Days Night. And your ingenious comparison is hilarious. The Monkees were the subject of a FICTIONAL television show. Auditions for hundreds of dudes that had some sort of talent. To say that is as contrived as paying some girls to appear fan frenzy is ignorant. You're likening manufacturing to marketing.It is hard for me to make them the greatest band of all-time when they were just as much a contrived phenomenom as The Monkees.

[ROCSteady]

It is hard for me to make them the greatest band of all-time when they were just as much a contrived phenomenom as The Monkees.

Go look up the word 'contrived', see if it still applies to the 'point' you attempt to make.

[Dasher]

Go look up the word 'contrived', see if it still applies to the 'point' you attempt to make.obviously planned or forced; artificial; strained: a contrived story.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/contrived


Beatlemania was obviously planned. It was forced-fed to the populace by the media and record industry.

[MacBirdTruth]

obviously planned or forced; artificial; strained: a contrived story.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/contrived


Beatlemania was obviously planned. It was forced-fed to the populace by the media and record industry.



You obviously know almost nothing about the Beatles. They were formed in Liverpool by blue-collor teenagers. They happened to get a record contract because they wrote their own music. Not many English bands did that. Beatlemania lasted from 1964-1965. They stopped performing in 1966. After Beatlemania was over they wrote and released the most influential music ever written. Revolver, Sgt. Peppers, White Album, and of course Abbey Road, with the greatest ablum ending of all time. You said Beatles music is corny, you obviously have never really listened to the Beatles. I can only think of one or two Beatles songs that are corny. Their music has withstanded the test of time, with their music just as popular today as it was when they were together. At least admit that the Beatles are the most influential musical act of all time.


If you don't like the Beatles, you have no buisness commenting on music because you obviously have no taste.

[Killer_Instinct]

the guy wasn't bad, but he gets way too much credit for being thoughtful and profound, really he was just kind of a hot head dumb ass.

You never listened to him, and you're pretty much talking out of your ass.


If you don't like the Beatles, you have no buisness commenting on music because you obviously have no taste.

Not everyone jocks The Beatles, and it's possible for someone to like music and not like The Beatles. They are not the be all end all.

[Doomsday Dallas]

You never listened to him, and you're pretty much talking out of your ass.


Yea.... that comment = rep.

[ROCSteady]

You obviously know almost nothing about the Beatles. They were formed in Liverpool by blue-collor teenagers. They happened to get a record contract because they wrote their own music. Not many English bands did that. Beatlemania lasted from 1964-1965. They stopped performing in 1966. After Beatlemania was over they wrote and released the most influential music ever written. Revolver, Sgt. Peppers, White Album, and of course Abbey Road, with the greatest ablum ending of all time. You said Beatles music is corny, you obviously have never really listened to the Beatles. I can only think of one or two Beatles songs that are corny. Their music has withstanded the test of time, with their music just as popular today as it was when they were together. At least admit that the Beatles are the most influential musical act of all time.


If you don't like the Beatles, you have no buisness commenting on music because you obviously have no taste.

Dasher regarding the Beatles :hammerhead:

I'm not even someone that jocks the Bealtes pre se. I recognize and acknowledge their accomplishments and can see their evolution that has influenced modern music.

I just hate when people are misinformed. If you wanna go against popular opinion or the grain, fine, I'm usually there w/ you. But don't be ignorant and try to equate the Beatles to the /=ucking Monkees :roll: . That just shows me his knowledge about one or the other, perhaps both, is minimal to none.

[Doomsday Dallas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhwlcupGPek&feature=related

[Da Ballahollic]

that's why we've never heard of that retarded magazine
:roll:

[Hotlantadude81]

http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/news/id.7638/title.blender-calls-tupac-the-most-overrated-artist-ever

I actually agree with them somewhat. I wouldn't go so far as to call him the most overrated ever, but I do agree that he is overrated. Who he was as a person and leader sort of blended into who he was as a rapper. Taking away the legacy, influence, and larger than life persona and just looking at skills on the mic, there are many rappers who were better than Pac. Pac was still great though, no doubt, and I'd still probably put him in my top 10. But from a technical standpoint I don't think he was the best rapper ever.


Not a rap fan and I still can't agree with that. Blender sucks.

[Hotlantadude81]

I am not a big Beatles fan, but you have to be drunk to think that. Basically everything in bold couldn't be more wrong.



the answer is Kurt Cobain

Not a rap fan, but I have more Tupac songs in my collection than KB songs. F*ck that rotten m*therf*cker.

[blasian]

Not a rap fan and I still can't agree with that. Blender sucks.

Lol, if you're not a rap fan than of course you won't think Pac was overrated. You won't believe how many times I've heard people say "Tupac is the only rapper that I like!" It's because most of these people haven't been exposed to enough rappers

[Hotlantadude81]

i think jimi hendrix is overrated since i have little to no patience for those big guitar solo things that gets in the way of songs. i think that is musical mast.ur.bation and while you guys sit in awe of his skills with the guitar, i am impatiently waiting for the song to move on. kinda like when mariah carey or whoever is wailing for a whole 60 seconds - just to show what gifted singers they are.

May I ask what rock you do like?

[Hotlantadude81]

ddfd

[Hotlantadude81]

The great thing about art is that there is no right or wrong, there are no objective truths. Have you failed to realise this or are you just upset that I called a guy you like 'overrated'? I will give you the benefit of the doubt and believe the latter. Because hells yeah I can deny that he made (past tense. remember, he choked on his own vomit and died) incredible music, since I don't care for it at all.

You say "Just because you dont like his music, doesnt mean he's overrated", but it is exactly the other way around. To me, he is vastly overrated. And this is the only way to measure what is good and what is not. How do we judge music without bringing in our own taste and preferences? I guess it would be record sales. And I don't think that is what you want.

I am sure you will agree with these points after thinking them over.

Not the biggest Jimi fan. But I don't see how you can dislike solo's and still like rock. Something doesn't seem right there.

[Hotlantadude81]

first of all, there's a reason his band was called 'the jimi hendrix experience'

secondly, i've never found any of jimi's solos to be out of the context of the song, especially considering most of them are just that damn good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkxP5gXYb2U

there's no song on earth where a solo like that is uncalled for

You can't expect a dude that see's the guitar as a background filler instrument to understand.

[Hotlantadude81]

Lol, if you're not a rap fan than of course you won't think Pac was overrated. You won't believe how many times I've heard people say "Tupac is the only rapper that I like!" It's because most of these people haven't been exposed to enough rappers

I've heard some of his stuff and I have a couple of songs.

F*ck, Shania Twain is a more overrated "artist" than him.

[reppy]

How the **** are you going to complain about a guitar solo in a rock song? Man, stick to Limp Bizkit or Linkin Park or whatever the **** qualifies as "rock" these days I guess.

[plowking]

For those of you saying Tupac is overrated and then saying the Beatles are not overrated due to selling over a billion records. Well Tupac himself has sold over 500 million records believe it or not. So I consider this in some ways equal to the feat the Beatles achieved due to being in a less popular genre.

He was able to globalize rap and made it popular to whites. The majority of Pac listeners were white folks. He rapped about everything. Not just money, cars, etc. But the important things as well such as how the black population treats its women, robbery, black on black crime, etc.

2Pac is the greatest rapper ever, not due to his technical ability and all the rest of it, though due to his popularity and ability to spread rap and make it popular to a larger community.

[blasian]

2Pac is the greatest rapper ever, not due to his technical ability and all the rest of it, though due to his popularity and ability to spread rap and make it popular to a larger community.

Most influential rapper maybe. But what does popularity and crossover appeal have to do with his skills on the mic?

[ikoiko]

May I ask what rock you do like?

right now, i listen to a lot of fleetwood mac, steely dan, prefab sprout and guns n roses.

i am not opposed to solos per se, it is only a problem when the solo is less about making beautiful sounds than about doing "cool, hard-to-do stuff" with the guitar. which in my opinion seems like a really big part of hendrix's appeal to most. hopefully you guys understand me better now.

[Jasun]

I cant agree with Blender. Im surprised when people say he wasnt that good lyrically or whatever. Its like they dont know what good lyrics are. 2pac gave a part of himself to his music, and even though he might of got carried away in the end, thats something rappers dont know how to do these days. He was a real artist, and his music had soul and showed who he was. Most rapeprs just do whats hot these days.

[ROCSteady]

For those of you saying Tupac is overrated and then saying the Beatles are not overrated due to selling over a billion records. Well Tupac himself has sold over 500 million records believe it or not. So I consider this in some ways equal to the feat the Beatles achieved due to being in a less popular genre.

He was able to globalize rap and made it popular to whites. The majority of Pac listeners were white folks. He rapped about everything. Not just money, cars, etc. But the important things as well such as how the black population treats its women, robbery, black on black crime, etc.

2Pac is the greatest rapper ever, not due to his technical ability and all the rest of it, though due to his popularity and ability to spread rap and make it popular to a larger community.

2PAc is not the greatest rapper ever. And when discussing the greatest, technical skills MUST be taken into account. Ppl like me and Blasian consider the whole skillset when taking into account THE GREATEST RAPPER EVER as you mentioned. No doubt 2Pac's intangibles are pretty much second to none when it comes to connecting w/ people,emotional investment, etc. However, there are things about his rhyme cadence and structure that bother some of us that enjoy balance in the bars that rappers spit. I love emotional expression in the rap I listen to, but that tends to be secondary to the more technical aspects of the structure and syllable arrangement. I also tend to have a keen ear for literary elements that are present. Not to sound like a rap elitist or anything, but I am drawn to diff things than the run-of-the-mill person that HAPPENS to listen to rap.

[playtetris]

2PAc is not the greatest rapper ever. And when discussing the greatest, technical skills MUST be taken into account. Ppl like me and Blasian consider the whole skillset when taking into account THE GREATEST RAPPER EVER as you mentioned. No doubt 2Pac's intangibles are pretty much second to none when it comes to connecting w/ people,emotional investment, etc. However, there are things about his rhyme cadence and structure that bother some of us that enjoy balance in the bars that rappers spit. I love emotional expression in the rap I listen to, but that tends to be secondary to the more technical aspects of the structure and syllable arrangement. I also tend to have a keen ear for literary elements that are present. Not to sound like a rap elitist or anything, but I am drawn to diff things than the run-of-the-mill person that HAPPENS to listen to rap.

:applause:

[Hotlantadude81]

right now, i listen to a lot of fleetwood mac, steely dan, prefab sprout and guns n roses.

i am not opposed to solos per se, it is only a problem when the solo is less about making beautiful sounds than about doing "cool, hard-to-do stuff" with the guitar. which in my opinion seems like a really big part of hendrix's appeal to most. hopefully you guys understand me better now.

The solo's alot of times add "feeling" to the song. Music isn't to just be heard... It's to be felt. I don't play guitar and I don't see around and blah blah blah about Jimi's guitar skills. I just like the music. His cover of All Along the Watchtower is one song I could listen to all day.

[ROCSteady]

The solo's alot of times add "feeling" to the song. Music isn't to just be heard... It's to be felt. I don't play guitar and I don't see around and blah blah blah about Jimi's guitar skills. I just like the music. His cover of All Along the Watchtower is one song I could listen to all day.

True dat. I've always thought of music as the bridge between mind and soul.

[Dasher]

****** U NEED TO STFU WITH YOUR WEAK ARGUMENTS UNEDUCATED GORILLA ****
Apparently I hurt some feelings. No worries though.

[plowking]

Most influential rapper maybe. But what does popularity and crossover appeal have to do with his skills on the mic?

Why are the Beatles considered the greatest band ever? Are you saying they are the most technically sound band in terms of ability on instruments and songwriting ability?

Popularity and crossover appeal has a lot to do with how great an artist you are. Why do you think the Beatles are considered the greatest then?

[Dasher]

Why are the Beatles considered the greatest band ever? Are you saying they are the most technically sound band in terms of ability on instruments and songwriting ability?

Popularity and crossover appeal has a lot to do with how great an artist you are. Why do you think the Beatles are considered the greatest then?Because if an opinion is stated over and over again by enough people it becomes fact. BTW the Funk Brothers are the most influential band of all time.

[plowking]

Because if an opinion is stated over and over again by enough people it becomes fact. BTW the Funk Brothers are the most influential band of all time.

So in fact you can't really determine who is the greatest musician of all time. Tastes differ, and popularity is the easiest way to go about it. Tupac being the most popular, generally meaning he is the greatest rapper.

[LJJ]

i am not opposed to solos per se, it is only a problem when the solo is less about making beautiful sounds than about doing "cool, hard-to-do stuff" with the guitar. which in my opinion seems like a really big part of hendrix's appeal to most. hopefully you guys understand me better now.

I find it very strange that you think that.

Maybe if you are talking about live versions you have a point. But you could say that about pretty much any guitar driven band that plays live.

If you look at the records though, nearly all of the songs are about 3 minutes long. The first record especially, is filled with concise pop songs. No room left for extravagant soloing at all.

To me it sounds like you based your whole opinion of Hendrix on maybe two or three songs.

[phoenix18]

He was able to globalize rap and made it popular to whites. The majority of Pac listeners were white folks. He rapped about everything. Not just money, cars, etc. But the important things as well such as how the black population treats its women, robbery, black on black crime, etc.

2Pac is the greatest rapper ever, not due to his technical ability and all the rest of it, though due to his popularity and ability to spread rap and make it popular to a larger community.

I agree, no subject matter is out of reach for pac. I pretty much owe my life to the man. He connects with people in so many ways. You wanna party? I get around. In trouble? Play Trapped. Feel alone? Cue Me Against the World. Got a kid on the way? Letter to My Unborn Child. Are you about to roll up on some fools? Select When We Ride on our enemies. Has your friend moved on to a better life? I aint mad at cha should fit the bill. Changing your life? Changes would do fine. Got love for your mom? ............ See the point? I dont remember ONE artist that could tackle that many topics. Not one.



2PAc is not the greatest rapper ever. And when discussing the greatest, technical skills MUST be taken into account. Ppl like me and Blasian consider the whole skillset when taking into account THE GREATEST RAPPER EVER as you mentioned. No doubt 2Pac's intangibles are pretty much second to none when it comes to connecting w/ people,emotional investment, etc. However, there are things about his rhyme cadence and structure that bother some of us that enjoy balance in the bars that rappers spit. I love emotional expression in the rap I listen to, but that tends to be secondary to the more technical aspects of the structure and syllable arrangement. I also tend to have a keen ear for literary elements that are present. Not to sound like a rap elitist or anything, but I am drawn to diff things than the run-of-the-mill person that HAPPENS to listen to rap.

Can you explain? What is wrong with the with his bars?


Perhaps I was blind to the facts, stabbed in the back
I couldn't trust my own homies just a bunch a dirty rats
Will I, succeed, paranoid from the weed
And hocus pocus try to focus but I can't see
And in my mind I'ma blind man doin time
Look to my future cause my past, is all behind me
Is it a crime, to fight, for what is mine?
Everybody's dyin tell me what's the use of tryin
I've been Trapped since birth, cautious, cause I'm cursed
And fantasies of my family, in a hearse
And they say it's the white man I should fear
But, it's my own kind doin all the killin here
I can't lie, ain't no love for the other side
Jealousy inside, make em wish I died
Oh my Lord, tell me what I'm livin for
Everybody's droppin got me knockin on heaven's door
And all my memories, of seein brothers bleed
And everybody grieves, but still nobody sees
Recollect your thoughts don't get caught up in the mix
Cause the media is full of dirty tricks
Only God can judge me


What is wrong with that?


EDIT: Super-bump.

[Richie2k6]

I don't remember if I posted in this topic.. but I do agree he's overrated. But only a little.

[Rasheed1]

2pac was overrated so were the Beatles imo....

the funny thing about pac is that most of the people who are his biggest fans dont like the things 2pac stood for... He was a born into a seriously black militant heritage and for a while he wore that on his sleeve..... His thug sh*t was fake... he wasnt a thug...

me personally I was disappointed in 2pac's death.... He had the potential to become someone really great in terms of his leadership ability.. you could see the fire inside of him at times and I wish he could have harnessed that part of himself better in order to fulfill his potential.... I would have loved to see what he would have become....


other than that, I think he was very contradictory ("i get around' one minute & 'keep ya head up' the next)

I think he let his emotion drive him a little too much... but he was indeed a great talent... a great actor, a great poet and song writer..

[SCY]

F*ck Blender, bunch of jealous hacks ripping people for a profit. On their "40 worst lyricists" page they list KRS-One, Robert Plant and Jim Morrison as being worse than Kevin Federline.

[endorphins]

But obviously the only reason the Beatles dominated was because it was a WEAK era.

Didn't read the whole thread but Woooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. Really? With The Who, The Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, The Doors, Hendrix, and maaddd other artists played in the 60's too. WWWoooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwww

EDIT: dammit i forgot that this was typed around the time when BULLS was trolling ISH. shit!

[Rojogaqu11]

Beatles overrated??

Almost everybody considers them the best band of all time. We have to understand that music is about taste, and everybody won't agree about them being the best.
But what the beatles did as artists has never been replicated. Maybe their music hasn't "aged well" some say, and usually it's said by those who never enjoyed the style of a song by the beatles within the many styles they played in their career. They changed their style so much in a span of less than a decade, and their repertoire is vast and made for different tastes in music. Almost anybody can find a beatles song they can enjoy or at least appreciate.

Nobody calls them the best musicians of all time, but what they had was a talent to inspire emotions through music to a generation, like nobody else has done ever since.

[halffttime]

What is wrong with that?

it doesn't have that mad fat fluid..

[phoenix18]

it doesn't have that mad fat fluid..
Mad fat..............fluid? What is that? That was an awesome verse. You have to be in a zone to come up with lyrics like that.

[Take Your Lumps]

This Paul McCartney groove is just nasty.....played all instruments on a 4 track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbHWx98zf_M

[johndeeregreen]

i am not opposed to solos per se, it is only a problem when the solo is less about making beautiful sounds than about doing "cool, hard-to-do stuff" with the guitar. which in my opinion seems like a really big part of hendrix's appeal to most.
Time the f*ck out right now.

Firstly, most of the stuff Jimi did ISN'T "hard-to-do stuff" - most good guitar players can mimic his style somewhat. He's not John Petrucci. People don't go "wow, that was a cool solo because it was stupid hard." People go, "wow, the wah solo in Watchtower was incredibly innovative for its time and still goes down as one of the best wah solos ever." What Hendrix did musically etends SO far beyond the realm of just "cool, hard-to-do stuff" that I am almost at a loss for explaining it. Most of the stuff he was doing with the guitar was absolutely groundbreaking and set the bar for the electric guitar as a lead instrument for decades to come. He advanced the world of electric guitar by fifty years. There were some great axe slingers back then but even the best of them (Clapton, Page) were not approaching the stuff Hendrix was doing.

If you don't appreciate his live stuff, fine; 15 minute guitar solos aren't for everyone. But for a guy with his talent Hendrix actually had way fewer guitar solos than you'd think and they certainly weren't in there just to showcase that he could play guitar. I think you need to do a little more listening. Honestly, if you feel that Hendrix is just guitar *********ion, then you simply don't have a clue what you're talking about.:confusedshrug:

[johndeeregreen]

Greater guitarist, Hendrix or Stevie Ray Vaughan?
Hendrix and it's no contest. Stevie was one of the greatest bluesmen of all time, was singlehandedly responsible for reviving blues music, had the greatest guitar tone of all time, ridiculous chops, incredibly improvising ability, amazing feeling, and in a sense he was an original, but not in the way Hendrix was. SRV was a medicore songwriter at best and didn't come close to breaking down musical boundaries the way Jimi did.

That said, depending on my mood, I'd rather listen to him play than Jimi oftentimes.

[mbell75]

No point in arguing REAL music on a board filled with teenagers who think fake thug rappers and gay little R&B singers are the best thing evar!! :roll:

[Take Your Lumps]

Time the f*ck out right now.

Firstly, most of the stuff Jimi did ISN'T "hard-to-do stuff" - most good guitar players can mimic his style somewhat. He's not John Petrucci. People don't go "wow, that was a cool solo because it was stupid hard." People go, "wow, the wah solo in Watchtower was incredibly innovative for its time and still goes down as one of the best wah solos ever." What Hendrix did musically etends SO far beyond the realm of just "cool, hard-to-do stuff" that I am almost at a loss for explaining it. Most of the stuff he was doing with the guitar was absolutely groundbreaking and set the bar for the electric guitar as a lead instrument for decades to come. He advanced the world of electric guitar by fifty years. There were some great axe slingers back then but even the best of them (Clapton, Page) were not approaching the stuff Hendrix was doing.

If you don't appreciate his live stuff, fine; 15 minute guitar solos aren't for everyone. But for a guy with his talent Hendrix actually had way fewer guitar solos than you'd think and they certainly weren't in there just to showcase that he could play guitar. I think you need to do a little more listening. Honestly, if you feel that Hendrix is just guitar *********ion, then you simply don't have a clue what you're talking about.:confusedshrug:

Holy ****, well said :applause:

[phoenix18]

No point in arguing REAL music on a board filled with teenagers who think fake thug rappers and gay little R&B singers are the best thing evar!! :roll:
You did not just ignore the two posts above you and post that monstrosity of a failure. Step your game up or take two steps back and get out.

[halffttime]

Mad fat..............fluid? What is that? That was an awesome verse. You have to be in a zone to come up with lyrics like that.

are you not a BIG fan of nas?

[phoenix18]

are you not a BIG fan of nas?
I am a big nas fan but havent listened to anything of his in a while.

[mbell75]

You did not just ignore the two posts above you and post that monstrosity of a failure. Step your game up or take two steps back and get out.


The two posts above me are pure crap too idiot.

[johndeeregreen]

The two posts above me are pure crap too idiot.
So Hendrix and SRV aren't 'real' music either?:oldlol:

Go play, kid.

[halffttime]

I am a big nas fan but havent listened to anything of his in a while.
< first verse, last line..

[mbell75]

So Hendrix and SRV aren't 'real' music either?:oldlol:

Go play, kid.

I will give you Hendrix but SRV? He was good but really didnt do anything groundbreaking. He simply took from Clapton, Beck, Page and a few jazz guitarists and blended that sound.

[johndeeregreen]

I will give you Hendrix but SRV? He was good but really didnt do anything groundbreaking. He simply took from Clapton, Beck, Page and a few jazz guitarists and blended that sound.
SRV doesn't play like any of those guys you listed except for Hendrix.:confusedshrug: No, he did not blow away musical boundaries like Hendrix did (few did), but nobody before him and nobody to date played blues music the way he did. Like I said, not a very good songwriter, but to just write him off as mediocre is completely asinine. There's a reason such a big deal gets made over him. All it takes is a watch of a couple of his live performances to see what kind of licks he was using that nobody had even really thought of before he came along, not to mention things like his right hand technique that has become pretty much a staple of most guitarists' repetoire nowadays.

[thejumpa]

If Pac isn't the best rapper of all time, then who is?

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeettt, the person who helped write this article probably has a mancrush on ya boy Weezy and thinks he isn't overrated...AT ALL.

Article is a bunch of BS...

[godofgods]

Blender is usually trash, but this article is correct.

[branslowski]

CO-SIGN this article....

[i seen hippos]

It's funny when you compare peeps that know something about music like JDG, DW, RBA to idiots like Dasher who have taken no time to actually study music throughout the last century beyond reading what someone said in a book probably. lol

I never thought someone could be as arrogant as KBlaze on this board, but over the past year Dasher has made a nice run at the title.

[Lamar Doom]

I basically agree. Tupac was a good rapper. He had one album I liked and a handful of songs on other stuff. For him to be on EVERYBODY's greatest rappers ever list (always top 10, usually top 5) is crazy to me. i hate most people's "best rappers" list though, it's not considered legit if you don't have KRS, Rakim, Tupac, and BIG amongst the absolute best. I can give you 20 rappers/groups I greatly prefer to Pac, and that's no real slight on him

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

It's funny when you compare peeps that know something about music like JDG, DW, RBA to idiots like Dasher who have taken no time to actually study music throughout the last century beyond reading what someone said in a book probably. lol

I never thought someone could be as arrogant as KBlaze on this board, but over the past year Dasher has made a nice run at the title.

Do you honestly think that's the case?

[DonDadda59]

It's the James Dean effect, if Tupac was still alive today he would be considered a more violent version of KRS :oldlol:

On the flipside, I think Biggie would've cemented himself as GOAT if he had a library as extensive as Pac. In terms of talent, Biggie>Pac by a really wide margin.

[phoenix18]

CO-SIGN this article....
Im taking the pen, you aint cosigning sh*t. Gimme that paper too.

[Big Al All day]

Not a big Pac fan, but you can't deny that 2Pacalypse now and The 7 Day Theory are amazing albums.

Krazy off the 7 Day Theory is easily my favorite Tupac song.

[thejumpa]

Im taking the pen, you aint cosigning sh*t. Gimme that paper too.

:roll: I was just thinking this....

Thinking that Pac isn't #1 is one thing....thinking that the man is overrated is another. If Pac is overrated, then so is Jay-Z, Nas, and Rakim. I don't like all of Nas albums either, but I wouldn't dare call him overrated. Same with Jay,Eminem,etc...

Different strokes for different folks though....

[phoenix18]

:roll: I was just thinking this....

Thinking that Pac isn't #1 is one thing....thinking that the man is overrated is another. If Pac is overrated, then so is Jay-Z, Nas, and Rakim. I don't like all of Nas albums either, but I wouldn't dare call him overrated. Same with Jay,Eminem,etc...

Different strokes for different folks though....
I agree. He might not be your number one, but he always in your top ten at least. Not the most overrated ever. Not even close since that a lot people think that BIG was the best ever too.

[Jackass18]

:roll: I was just thinking this....

Thinking that Pac isn't #1 is one thing....thinking that the man is overrated is another. If Pac is overrated, then so is Jay-Z, Nas, and Rakim. I don't like all of Nas albums either, but I wouldn't dare call him overrated. Same with Jay,Eminem,etc...

Different strokes for different folks though....

Do you even know what the word "overrated" means?

[thejumpa]

Do you even know what the word "overrated" means?

Yes, I do. Do you?

[~primetime~]

Yes, I do. Do you?
it means people rate him too high...

every teenage idiot on the planet thinks Pac is the greatest rapper ever...that makes him "overrated"...

you said "thinking he is #1 is one thing"...ect

[thejumpa]

it means people rate him too high...

every teenage idiot on the planet thinks Pac is the greatest rapper ever...that makes him "overrated"...

you said "thinking he is #1 is one thing"...ect

I can understand that. To me, Pac is very far from overrated. Then again, if you go around listening to the idiots who think he is the best ever because of no reason, then I suppose that could get you to think he is overrated. I do, and feel the same way about Kobe.

It's like....some cats say he is #1 and some cats have him somewhere down there, no matter if they like him or not. I don't like Biggie that much, but for me to call him overrated just wouldn't make sense. I recognize the guys talent and what he has done for the game....can't be overrated if I realize all that. The fanboys who don't know **** are just that.....people who don't know ****

[iggy>]

biggie is overrated more so than pac. the guy has one classic album and is considered by many to be the goat

[Jackass18]

The thing is some people seem to think that "overrated" is a big insult. Sometimes it is, but not always. Something can be overrated, but at the same time still be great. If you don't think Biggie is as good as many other people do, then you could call him overrated. It's not like you're saying he sucks or anything.

[i seen hippos]

Do you honestly think that's the case?

Based on the evidence Dasher has provided in his posts? Yes. What else are you going on?

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Based on the evidence Dasher has provided in his posts? Yes. What else are you going on?

I'd be willing to wager my bottom dollar, that Dasher did not imitate a line from some rebellious book, but rather made an opinion based on a blend of historical factors and personal preferences.

[i seen hippos]

I'd be willing to wager my bottom dollar, that Dasher did not imitate a line from some rebellious book, but rather made an opinion based on a blend of historical factors and personal preferences.

I didn't imply he was quoting a line from a book.

Personal preference has nothing to do with stating that the Beatles were not innovative or talented.

What historical factors show that the Beatles were overrated? Because lesser known black people were doing it first? That doesn't make someone else overrated. You'd have to gloss over many other factors to come to that conclusion. And let's be serious. He's pissed because whitey got all the love and his black ancestors aren't respected for making the music first. He doesn't even care if the Beatles built upon what was done before and actually did innovate stuff. He just doesn't like that his peeps aren't getting any love. He's not really pissed about the Beatles. He's crying out for some recognition. lol

[Pain of Thought]

Im taking the pen, you aint cosigning sh*t. Gimme that paper too.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Wow, that was actually funny. Rare post from you. Props.

[Pain of Thought]

Not a big Pac fan, but you can't deny that 2Pacalypse now and The 7 Day Theory are amazing albums.

Krazy off the 7 Day Theory is easily my favorite Tupac song.

2Pacalypse Now is one of the most underrated albums of all time. All Eyez On Me is a classic among classics IMO. 7 Day Theory is classic IMO.

[bdreason]

Tupac isn't overrated.. not one bit.

Calling Tupac overrated in an era when kids think lil wayne is the best rapper is laughable at best.

[kentatm]

All you need to know is that Sgt Peppers was so far ahead of its time and such a step forward that it gave the Beach Boys' Brian Wilson (then considered musics most innovative and talented studio artist) a nervous breakdown b/c he didn't think he could top it.

Dasher is wrong. The Beatles are not overrated and they were innovators.

[HisJoeness]

I have a question that I would like to get some opinions on. I was reading Dash's post on his opinion of the Beatles and one of his reasons he claims the Beatles are overrated and therefore not an all-time great band is becsuse he feels they didn't innovate. Now I don't agree with that and that's not what I'm trying to debate but that get me thinking. Does one have to be an innovator or a revolutionary in his field to be an all-time great? My thinking is no because they are mutually exclusive. Kobe Bryant didn't necessarily create a new style of play but he is one of best players in NBA history. What do you guys think about people who just lock down a certain style and excel at it, whether it be music, sports, or science?

[thejumpa]

This thread hurts my head.

[phoenix18]

All you need to know is that Sgt Peppers was so far ahead of its time and such a step forward that it gave the Beach Boys' Brian Wilson (then considered musics most innovative and talented studio artist) a nervous breakdown b/c he didn't think he could top it.

Dasher is wrong. The Beatles are not overrated and they were innovators.
:oldlol: I am sorry but the Beatles are overrated and everyone knows it. You do, I do, we all do. Whether or not we want to admit it is a different question. You guys make it seem like the Beatles are the best thing that has ever happened in music. Most of the people I talk to and most of the interview I have seen have Tupac at number on all-time, in a tie with Biggie, or in their top five. Beatles? You guys would beat anyone up for not saying they were the best ever. That's why they are overrated. I am prepared to be lambasted by you in a couple of minutes.

[KenneBell]

As a pure artist, yeah he probably is. Tupac represented being more than just an artist though, that's why he's held in such a high regard.

I used to think the Beatles were very overrated coming from the outside looking in but some of their stuff is as good as advertised.