Obamacare passed by Congress...

[raiderfan19]

you really dont know what you are talking about. on either count.
The fact that the government is ineffecient? Really? Thats wrong? Did any of you ever take a government class in college? The government is inherently ineffecient because it has no incentive to be effecient. The government didn't earn the money it spends and thusly doesnt have a reason to spend it well. If any of you can come up with more effeciently run government programs than I can come up with ineffeciently run government programs I will gladly admit Im wrong. The other issue is that the government is simply too big for things to be run effeciently. Individuals on the other hand have every incentive to be effecient(even though some arent) because they have to earn the money they spend and once they spend it all, they have to either earn more or do without. The government can simply tax more or issue bonds.

As for the argument that people will still be able to keep the same health insurance, insurance companies are a business. Their goal is to make money. They do this by basing insurance premiums on an actuary table. By lowering the cost of people on the high end of the actuary table(the people with pre-existing conditions) you have to raise the cost of the people on the low end of the actuary table. No thats not included in the bill but it simply has to happen based on any business model you can think of. So while you may be able to retain the same coverage, it will cost more.

Also, this bill is TERRIBLE for people who make between 22-40K a year. You are now required to have health insurance by law. The government will subsidize part of it, but not all. Most accounts Ive read say 35%. If not, you receive a fine of 695 or 2.5% of your salary. For people who are barely making ends meet as is, that is not a good thing.

[raiderfan19]

I find it funny that the people bitching about how you're required to have health care, are actually the ones that actually have health care. The fact that no one can be denied health care, regardless of pre-exsisting conditions, is a few steps in the right direction.
The fact that people dont understand why insurance companies deny people health insurance for pre-existing conditions scares me. If you have enough traffic accidents/speeding tickets, you cant get car insurance/it gets more expensive. Not giving people health insurance(and health insurance and health care aren't the same thing) because they have conditions that means that they will cost the insurance company way more money than they will pay the insurance company is not a hard thing to understand at all.

[InspiredLebowski]

The fact that people dont understand why insurance companies deny people health insurance for pre-existing conditions scares me. If you have enough traffic accidents/speeding tickets, you cant get car insurance/it gets more expensive. Not giving people health insurance(and health insurance and health care aren't the same thing) because they have conditions that means that they will cost the insurance company way more money than they will pay the insurance company is not a hard thing to understand at all.
I'd agree with you if the case were people w/o coverage applying for it after being diagnosed with cancer or something like that. I made the same "getting in a wreck then insuring my car" analogy. That isn't the case, I think it was boozehound that pointed out to me the definition of "pre-existing condition" to some companies being insignifcant ailments that don't have bearing on one's long term health prospects.

[shadow]

The fact that people dont understand why insurance companies deny people health insurance for pre-existing conditions scares me. If you have enough traffic accidents/speeding tickets, you cant get car insurance/it gets more expensive. Not giving people health insurance(and health insurance and health care aren't the same thing) because they have conditions that means that they will cost the insurance company way more money than they will pay the insurance company is not a hard thing to understand at all.

I get what you're saying but the fact of the matter is our health insurance isn't insurance in the typical sense of the word, atleast not our expectations of it. They should probably stop calling it health inusrance and call it health care plan or something like that.

[raiderfan19]

I get what you're saying but the fact of the matter is our health insurance isn't insurance in the typical sense of the word, atleast not our expectations of it. They should probably stop calling it health inusrance and call it health care plan or something like that.
Or people could just correct their expectations.....

[Take Your Lumps]

80 years ago......sounds familiar.

http://imgur.com/reOAh.jpg

[Juges8932]

http://www.tshirtwatch.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/lucy-pinder-superman-shirt.jpg
http://images.askmen.com/photos/lucy-pinder/83971.jpg
http://models.femalemodels-hq.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/lucy-pinder.jpg
http://www.mychillpill.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/LucyPinder4.jpg
http://dontcostnothing.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/stacykeibler_tropical.jpg
http://images.dailyradar.com/media/uploads/showhype/story_large/2009/03/18/stacy_keibler_stuff01.jpg
http://www.wrestlingnewsdesk.com/WND/images/stories/story%20files/101708/stacy-keibler-topless-maxim.jpg

[crisoner]

^^^^^^

Does this mean Obamacare rocks?

[DaRondoStopper]

**** the middle class huh? More government spending and control! That is EXACTLY what this country needs!

:roll: to anyone that thinks this is a good idea.

[crisoner]

2 years from now lets say that are healthcare system is better off etc. Economy is getting back on track. Will you "sky is falling" folks step back and give this bill it's just deserve?

32 million new Healthcare customers is a good thing. But what we really need is that public option.

[DaRondoStopper]

2 years from now lets say that are healthcare system is better off etc. Economy is getting back on track. Will you "sky is falling" folks step back and give this bill it's just deserve?

32 million new Healthcare customers is a good thing. But what we really need is that public option.

2 years from now the health care system and economy will be in even worse shape than it is now, so the point is moot.

Another great move by the president that got voted in because of his race!

:applause:

[Take Your Lumps]

What I don't understand is why republicans are so up in arms about this thing -- if it truly is the disaster they're predicting...WHY NOT let the democrats walk right into the trap and then swoop in as the hero in the mid-terms and when Obama is up for re-election? If this thing is bad for America and the majority of Americans don't want it -- chill the **** out. You should be back in power in no time if your theories are correct.

Could it be that they're actually petrified that Americans will end up liking this bill and an eventual public option?

[DaRondoStopper]

What I don't understand is why republicans are so up in arms about this thing -- if it truly is the disaster they're predicting...WHY NOT let the democrats walk right into the trap and then swoop in as the hero in the mid-terms and when Obama is up for re-election? If this thing is bad for America and the majority of Americans don't want it -- chill the **** out. You should be back in power in no time if your theories are correct.



I'm not a republican, and I can tell you it has NOTHING to do with getting back in power. I'm scared of even more government control and even more government spending. This plan is illogical right now, and I honestly don't see how anyone can support this ****er.

[crisoner]

2 years from now the health care system and economy will be in even worse shape than it is now, so the point is moot.

Another great move by the president that got voted in because of his race!

:applause:

You don't know that.....seems like the rest of the world does quite well with government healthcare.

And won the election because of his race? Well...hell next time let's get 50 Cent to run. He is straight up black and not just "no pun intended" 50 percent black.

[Take Your Lumps]

I'm not a republican, and I can tell you it has NOTHING to do with getting back in power. I'm scared of even more government control and even more government spending. This plan is illogical right now, and I honestly don't see how anyone can support this ****er.

can we get clarification on that last word there?

[InspiredLebowski]

80 years ago......sounds familiar.

http://imgur.com/reOAh.jpg
Is this real? Holy shit.

[crisoner]

What I don't understand is why republicans are so up in arms about this thing -- if it truly is the disaster they're predicting...WHY NOT let the democrats walk right into the trap and then swoop in as the hero in the mid-terms and when Obama is up for re-election? If this thing is bad for America and the majority of Americans don't want it -- chill the **** out. You should be back in power in no time if your theories are correct.

Could it be that they're actually petrified that Americans will end up liking this bill and an eventual public option?

I think so....because there are plenty of voters who will benefit from this. They got to do their best to convince people this is a bad thing.

And it comes down to this...I'll say it straight up my opinion. The people who have it good and been having it good...are AFRAID of losing what they have had in this country. So any change and they will go ape sh*t. And that is what is happening now....they just see it as a hand out and tax hikes nothing less. Forget the thousands of people dying every year because they can not afford healthcare...no, no, no. Some how some way a black man as president who was voted for just because he was black (because being black has always been great in this country) will take everyone's rights away.

:hammerhead:

[crisoner]

can we get clarification on that last word there?


I think he was calling Obama a nagger.

http://www.kleenkuip.com/images/blog_naggers.jpg

[DaRondoStopper]

You don't know that.....seems like the rest of the world does quite well with government healthcare.

And won the election because of his race? Well...hell next time let's get 50 Cent to run. He is straight up black and not just "no pun intended" 50 percent black.


The rest of the world doesn't have the population, health care problems and shaky economy that the U.S. currently does right now.

And you're a fool if you think his race didn't play a role in him getting elected, or even being supported to this day.

[DaRondoStopper]

can we get clarification on that last word there?

the word is f u c k e r.

[crisoner]

the word is f u c k e r.

Sure buddy whatever you say.

[brantonli]

Shaky economy? The US is doing perfectly fine compared to some of the developed disaster in other countries.

[DaRondoStopper]

type ****** and see how its censored compared to ****er.

[crisoner]

The rest of the world doesn't have the population, health care problems and shaky economy that the U.S. currently does right now.

And you're a fool if you think his race didn't play a role in him getting elected, or even being supported to this day.


Excuses...

And pulling out the race card on Obama...typical.

[DaRondoStopper]

Shaky economy? The US is doing perfectly fine compared to some of the developed disaster in other countries.

Obviously, you're a little confused. I was talking about the countries with the Universal Health care. None of them have the population, health problems, or shaky economy the U.S. currently does.

[DaRondoStopper]

Sure buddy whatever you say.


Wow, you're dumb.

[DaRondoStopper]

Excuses...

And pulling out the race card on Obama...typical.


Excuses? What are you talking about? Are you just a blind supporter? Do you not see what's going on here? I'm starting to believe you might be little slow, so the picture on the page below might be a little more suited for someone of your mental capacity.

[crisoner]

Healthcare ranks....

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

Number 37 sad sad sad.......

[IcanzIIravor]

I'm not a republican, and I can tell you it has NOTHING to do with getting back in power. I'm scared of even more government control and even more government spending. This plan is illogical right now, and I honestly don't see how anyone can support this ****er.

The fact that you think he won because he is black makes me shake my head. If he had been a dynamic young white candidate he'd have gotten the vast majority of black people and even more Democrats to vote for him. Remember the Hillary Democrats who voted for McCain rather than vote for Obama? He still would have captured the youth vote as well. Think they would have voted for McCain? Independents as well since they were tired of the GOP in the WH.

[crisoner]

The fact that you think he won because he is black makes me shake my head. If he had been a dynamic young white candidate he'd have gotten the vast majority of black people and even more Democrats to vote for him. Remember the Hillary Democrats who voted for McCain rather than vote for Obama? He still would have captured the youth vote as well. Think they would have voted for McCain? Independents as well since they were tired of the GOP in the WH.


We need to test his theory and put 50 Cent on the GOP ballot in 2012!!! Nobody blacker in America then that guy...and a Republican to! He is rich enough to be one!

[DaRondoStopper]

The fact that you think he won because he is black makes me shake my head. If he had been a dynamic young white candidate he'd have gotten the vast majority of black people and even more Democrats to vote for him. Remember the Hillary Democrats who voted for McCain rather than vote for Obama? He still would have captured the youth vote as well. Think they would have voted for McCain? Independents as well since they were tired of the GOP in the WH.

I went a little overboard with that being the only reason he got voted in, but you're just a big of fool to think it didn't play a factor in it. Democrats get the majority of the black vote as is, you don't think that Obama being black made that number skyrocket to 98% or whatever it was? C'mon dude. Obama was nothing more than a black Dukakis. His plan was idiotic considering the current state of the economy, but people idolized him like he was a ****ing Beatle.

[Juges8932]

I went a little overboard with that being the only reason he got voted in, but you're just a big of fool to think it didn't play a factor in it. Democrats get the majority of the black vote as is, you don't think that Obama being black made that number skyrocket to 98% or whatever it was? C'mon dude. Obama was nothing more than a black Dukakis. His plan was idiotic considering the current state of the economy, but people idolized him like he was a ****ing Beatle.

And what about all of the hicks who won't vote for him simply because he's black or democrat? It goes both ways. There are ignorant people who vote without any knowledge just because of how they were raised or because of what they see at first-sight. Or they hear dem/rep and automatically have their assumptions made. They were doing/showing the stats during the election about specific demographics and such and concluded that in the end, it about balanced out. It was on CNN, I believe.

[DaRondoStopper]

Barack Obama doesn't care about middle class white people!

[DaRondoStopper]

And what about all of the hicks who won't vote for him simply because he's black or democrat? It goes both ways. There are ignorant people who vote without any knowledge just because of how they were raised or because of what they see at first-sight. Or they hear dem/rep and automatically have their assumptions made. They were doing/showing the stats during the election about specific demographics and such and concluded that in the end, it about balanced out. It was on CNN, I believe.

No hick votes democrat anyways. They don't wanna catch teh gay.

[raiderfan19]

Obama was voted in because he was as far from george bush as possible and because he mobilized young people and actually got them to vote for once. Im glad he got young people to vote, I wish they were more informed but they are part of this nation and deserve their right to vote as much as everyone else.(I am young too)

That said, this policy isn't dependant on whether you like Obama or not. Its a policy that should be judged on its own merits and not loved because you love obama nor should it be reviled because you dislike Obama.

[raiderfan19]

Healthcare ranks....

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

Number 37 sad sad sad.......
Any ranking with canada ahead of us is fairy suspect. Canada's health care system is awful.

[DaRondoStopper]

Obama was voted in because he was as far from george bush as possible and because he mobilized young people and actually got them to vote for once. Im glad he got young people to vote, I wish they were more informed but they are part of this nation and deserve their right to vote as much as everyone else.(I am young too)

That said, this policy isn't dependant on whether you like Obama or not. Its a policy that should be judged on its own merits and not loved because you love obama nor should it be reviled because you dislike Obama.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: at the bold.

[RedBlackAttack]

You know... I'm going to repeat what I said last night because I think it is an important fact that is not being discussed and it really puts into context all of this fear-mongering by the extreme right (which encompasses a majority of the Republican party these days, it seems) have been doing for the last 365 days.

This healthcare bill was estimated by the nonpartisan fact-checking organization, the CBO, to cost about $900 billion over 10 years. Looking a the total cost is misleading, though, because it won't be paid in one lump sum. The better way to look at the cost of the legislation is on annual increments which will eventually make up the whole.

The predictor is that, by the time all of the benefits and all of the taxation will be fully functional -- in 2016 -- this legislation will cost about $160 billion to the taxpayers that year.

The total estimated expenditures for the nation's healtcare in 2016 before this legislation was factored in or passed was $3.7 trillion and that includes the NHE (National Health Expenditures).

So, this legislation that has clearly driven some Republicans over the edge of insanity and is predicted to be the end of the country as we know it will comprise a whopping 4 percent of our total expenditures devoted to healthcare in that year alone.

If you look at just government spending on healthcare (medicare, medicaid, etc.), the total expenditure in 2016 was estimated to be $1.2 trillion... Which means that this bill will account for less than 10 percent of that total if you narrow down even further and it will cover 30 million new Americans.... And enact regulations that are sorely needed on the insurance companies.

With these numbers in mind, this was one of the more unnecessary and overblown issues in political history.

[IcanzIIravor]

I went a little overboard with that being the only reason he got voted in, but you're just a big of fool to think it didn't play a factor in it. Democrats get the majority of the black vote as is, you don't think that Obama being black made that number skyrocket to 98% or whatever it was? C'mon dude. Obama was nothing more than a black Dukakis. His plan was idiotic considering the current state of the economy, but people idolized him like he was a ****ing Beatle.

Clinton received 83% in 92 and 84% in 96

88% voted for Kerry in 2004

I believe 96% voted for Obama this time.

Now I want you to do the break down of the % of whites and none whites who voted for Obama.

Obama followed a similar blue print that Kennedy (another charismatic young candidate remember) laid out when he ran and won. I'm sure JFK had a high percentage of Catholics who voted in higher than normal numbers for him. I'm sure the first latino, Asian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc will get similar results.

Now I want you to back up your posts on the matter with some data and we can actually debate the issue.

[raiderfan19]

You know... I'm going to repeat what I said last night because I think it is an important fact that is not being discussed and it really puts into context all of this fear-mongering by the extreme right (which encompasses a majority of the Republican party these days, it seems) have been doing for the last 365 days.

This healthcare bill was estimated by the nonpartisan fact-checking organization, the CBO, to cost about $900 billion over 10 years. Looking a the total cost is misleading, though, because it won't be paid in one lump sum. The better way to look at the cost of the legislation is on annual increments which will eventually make up the whole.

The predictor is that, by the time all of the benefits and all of the taxation will be fully functional -- in 2016 -- this legislation will cost about $160 billion to the taxpayers that year.

The total estimated expenditures for the nation's healtcare in 2016 before this legislation was factored in or passed was $3.7 trillion and that includes the NHE (National Health Expenditures).

So, this legislation that has clearly driven some Republicans over the edge of insanity and is predicted to be the end of the country as we know it will comprise a whopping 4 percent of our total expenditures devoted to healthcare in that year alone.

If you look at just government spending on healthcare (medicare, medicaid, etc.), the total expenditure in 2016 was estimated to be $1.2 trillion... Which means that this bill will account for less than 10 percent of that total if you narrow down even further and it will cover 30 million new Americans.... And enact regulations that are sorely needed on the insurance companies.

With these numbers in mind, this was one of the more unnecessary and overblown issues in political history.
The problem is the CBO only looks at cost that the bill implicitly states. Hidden costs and secondary costs arent looked at by the CBO. The CBO looks at the appropriations that the bill asks for.

I agree with you that this isn't the end of the world like some people are making it out to be. That said, its not a good thing either.

[raiderfan19]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: at the bold.
Ummm the 2008 elections had the highest voter turnout between 18 and 29 year olds since 1972 which was the first year that 18 year olds got the right to vote. Im no really sure what you are laughing about.

[DaRondoStopper]

Ummm the 2008 elections had the highest voter turnout between 18 and 29 year olds since 1972 which was the first year that 18 year olds got the right to vote. Im no really sure what you are laughing about.

Laughing not at the turnout, that you think Obama is the one that got those kids there. The turnout was so high for the age group not because Obama's politics were what gonna get this country back on track (:roll: at anyone who thought that) but because of all the famous douchebags campaigning for them. It's because the average college kid is an idiot and easily influenced, especially by dumb idiots like lil wayne, kanye, and whoever else. They would have voted for anyone they told them to.

Obama doesn't care about white people.

[Brujesino]

Laughing not at the turnout, that you think Obama is the one that got those kids there. The turnout was so high for the age group not because Obama's politics were what gonna get this country back on track (:roll: at anyone who thought that) but because of all the famous douchebags campaigning for them. It's because the average college kid is an idiot and easily influenced, especially by dumb idiots like lil wayne, kanye, and whoever else. They would have voted for anyone they told them to.

Obama doesn't care about white people.

obamas mom is white iam sure he cares about her

for some reason people forget obama isnt 100%black

[raiderfan19]

Laughing not at the turnout, that you think Obama is the one that got those kids there. The turnout was so high for the age group not because Obama's politics were what gonna get this country back on track (:roll: at anyone who thought that) but because of all the famous douchebags campaigning for them. It's because the average college kid is an idiot and easily influenced, especially by dumb idiots like lil wayne, kanye, and whoever else. They would have voted for anyone they told them to.

Obama doesn't care about white people.
I didnt say they did it because they thought he would fix everything.(I personally think they did it because Obama is basically a rockstar.)

What I said was simply that they did it.

[Hawker]

Excuses? What are you talking about? Are you just a blind supporter? Do you not see what's going on here? I'm starting to believe you might be little slow, so the picture on the page below might be a little more suited for someone of your mental capacity.

Crisoner is an idiot and yes, he's a blind supporter. He can never talk intelligently about issues and always plays the republican/democrat and liberal/conservative game.

[boozehound]

Also, this bill is TERRIBLE for people who make between 22-40K a year. You are now required to have health insurance by law. The government will subsidize part of it, but not all. Most accounts Ive read say 35%. If not, you receive a fine of 695 or 2.5% of your salary. For people who are barely making ends meet as is, that is not a good thing.
I am not going to address your baseless and ignorant argument that the government cannot run a program because they have no profit motive.


I will address this point however. The people getting subsidies (which would be anyone making under 44 k as an indiv and about 90 k as a family of 4) would never pay more than 10% of their income towards their healthplan (and generally much less). As a state university employee, I can tell you that that is much less than I pay for coverage for just my spouse and myself (as part of a huge employer plan).

The most you would pay at 40 k a year would be 4k a year, or 333 a month. which is pretty dang cheap coverage.

[boozehound]

**** the middle class huh? More government spending and control! That is EXACTLY what this country needs!

:roll: to anyone that thinks this is a good idea.
it is exactly the lower middle class that will benefit from this bill. The only ones seeing a tax are those making over 250k/year, not exactly middle class in my book.

If this is such a terrible idea, why are we the only western nation without some form of nationalized healthcare for our citizens? Every other country is full of morons and commies?

[boozehound]

2 years from now the health care system and economy will be in even worse shape than it is now, so the point is moot.

Another great move by the president that got voted in because of his race!

:applause:
wow, you really are a dumb soundbite. you do realize that moot means endlessly debatable (in other words, neither position can be proven)? So, you are right, the point is moot.

[boozehound]

The rest of the world doesn't have the population, health care problems and shaky economy that the U.S. currently does right now.

And you're a fool if you think his race didn't play a role in him getting elected, or even being supported to this day.
uh really? Why does the US have such serious healthcare problems? If you are talking obesity, etc take a look at australia for comparison. Or are you talking about the number of people who have to use the ER as their primary physician and drive operating costs through the roof?

SO we have a bigger population so what? We also have way more Drs and medical establishments. that is a weak, weak argument.

and yes, the shaky economy is pretty much a global phenomenon (see greece or spain for examples). or Irelands decline.

[boozehound]

I went a little overboard with that being the only reason he got voted in, but you're just a big of fool to think it didn't play a factor in it. Democrats get the majority of the black vote as is, you don't think that Obama being black made that number skyrocket to 98% or whatever it was? C'mon dude. Obama was nothing more than a black Dukakis. His plan was idiotic considering the current state of the economy, but people idolized him like he was a ****ing Beatle.
you do realize that blacks are still only 12-13% of the population right? Sure, it played a role in some states, but it wasnt the difference maker. He wins without the % difference between normal "blacks for democrats" votes and what he pulled.

[crisoner]

Obama doesn't care about white people.

He is white dummy.

[DonDadda59]

Another great move by the president that got voted in because of his race!

:applause:

I'm getting sick of guys getting voted into the White House just because their skin is a few shades darker than their opponents. It was bad enough the country had to endure 2 terms of this guy:

http://rlv.zcache.com/jesse_jackson_for_president_1984_button-p145025703049965421t5sj_400.jpg

F*cking Idiot.

[crisoner]

I'm telling you 50 Cent for president!!! You don't get much blacker then that guy....or Wesley Snipes!!!

[boozehound]

Big Ben Wallace has my vote. or the actor who played the pres in idiocracy.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Look, you may think he's being a racist ass for being mad at the preferential treatment of black Presidential candidates, but after 8 years of the Sharpton administration, can you blame him?

[YAWN]

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/2848/23519101501387339702857.jpg
:lol

[rezznor]

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/2848/23519101501387339702857.jpg
:lol
:oldlol: :applause:

[raiderfan19]

I am not going to address your baseless and ignorant argument that the government cannot run a program because they have no profit motive.


I will address this point however. The people getting subsidies (which would be anyone making under 44 k as an indiv and about 90 k as a family of 4) would never pay more than 10% of their income towards their healthplan (and generally much less). As a state university employee, I can tell you that that is much less than I pay for coverage for just my spouse and myself (as part of a huge employer plan).

The most you would pay at 40 k a year would be 4k a year, or 333 a month. which is pretty dang cheap coverage.
333 month is still a hell of alot more than 0 if you didnt have health insurance...

[Sanity]

Ron Paul: National Bankruptcy will Repeal Obamacare (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbOQE8hsQpo&feature=related)

[crisoner]

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/2848/23519101501387339702857.jpg
:lol

Classic!

[bisk]

Healthcare ranks....

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America


I think that's a list from 2000 btw.

[raiderfan19]

I am not going to address your baseless and ignorant argument that the government cannot run a program because they have no profit motive.


I will address this point however. The people getting subsidies (which would be anyone making under 44 k as an indiv and about 90 k as a family of 4) would never pay more than 10% of their income towards their healthplan (and generally much less). As a state university employee, I can tell you that that is much less than I pay for coverage for just my spouse and myself (as part of a huge employer plan).

The most you would pay at 40 k a year would be 4k a year, or 333 a month. which is pretty dang cheap coverage.
I never said that government, couldnt run a program because they have no profit motive. I stated that the government is inherently ineffecient which has been proven time and again. Social security, Medicare, Military spending etc... are all among the least effecient institutions in this country. How many times do you have to see the same thing happen before you realize thats its going to keep happening.

The problem I have with this bill is that its one more thing that the government chooses how individuals spend their money. In the past people looked at their own budget and decided if the cost of paying health insurance premiums was worth more than risking having to pay their own health care bills. Now the government is telling people that health insurance is worth that risk and they dont have a choice unless they want to end up in jail. And mark my words, people will end up in jail because of not paying the fines for this which will add to yet another problem of jail overcrowding.

For all the people complaining about insurance companies making too much money, would you like it if the government artificially capped your industries profits?