OT: It's Official...Reggie Bush Is A Bust!!!

[PleezeBelieve]

Just checked his stats and this guy is averaging 3.2 ypc on a team with crazy weapons while the Jones-Drew kid is averaging 5.7 ypc on the offensively challenged Jaquar squad. And keep in mind, both of these players have been slowly intergrated into their repective teams offense..so it's a fair comparison.

With that being said, if you're going to be a paying a running back that was the No #2 draft pick 60 mill, then I would expect for him to atleast aveage 4 a carry his rookie season. At least that shows me he has the ability to make plays in this league. AQnd not only does Jones-Drew kid average more ypc, he also averages more yards per catch as well.

Let the excuses begin. :rolleyes:

[ZHAKIDD532]

what are you smoking?

it's been one year, and he's had his moments for sure. He's gonna be a really good back for years to come, some progress faster in the NFL than others, just calm down...

[Real Men Wear Green]

1127 total yards, 7 touchdowns. Shut up already.

[PleezeBelieve]

what are you smoking?

it's been one year, and he's had his moments for sure. He's gonna be a really good back for years to come, some progress faster in the NFL than others, just calm down...
...and other players don't progress at all, and? The guy shows no signs of being even a part-time running back. He has rushing 4 touchdowns all season...and didn't he get those all in one game? The guy is a freaking possesion receiver that has the ability to break it occasionally. Drew has 10 touchdowns and also matches Bush's return ability.

[qwerty]

and you don't think 84 receptions for a rb or even a wr is any good?

[shafir]

Shut up

[PleezeBelieve]

1127 total yards, 7 touchdowns. Shut up already.
He's got those 1127 yards on freaking 220 touches clown. That a robust 5 yeards per touch, genius. Where's the hyped big play ability? :rolleyes:

[Real Men Wear Green]

It's amazing that the guy can get over 1,000 yards of offense without being a starter and have people dumb enough to call him a bust.

[PleezeBelieve]

and you don't think 84 receptions for a rb or even a wr is any good?
HE WASN"T DRAFTED TO BE A POSSESION WR.

What's so hard to understand about that. I mean, he's not even a big play receiver...at least not any more than Jones-Drew who is undoubtable the better runner.

[PleezeBelieve]

It's amazing that the guy can get over 1,000 yards of offense without being a starter and have people dumb enough to call him a bust.
He's not a starter? What do you call it then? He touches the ball almost 20 times a game. That's a full workload for the average starting running back. Stop making excuses, dude.

[Real Men Wear Green]

He's got those 1127 yards on freaking 220 touches clown. That a robust 5 yeards per touch, genius. Where's the hyped big play ability? :rolleyes:
Did you see how he was used? Modest gains on catches is normal for a runningback and he's mainly been used as a receiver out of the backfield. You want big plays? Check the game winning kick-off return or how he roasted SF and Dallas. Just because you're too dumb to see his value doesn't mean he's a bust.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Are you crazy? The dude leads all rookies in receptions. He has over 1000 yards of total offense, he has the ability to make the other team HAVE to pay attention to him. Reggie Bush is going to be one of the most explosive players in the league.

[Real Men Wear Green]

He's not a starter? What do you call it then? He touches the ball almost 20 times a game. That's a full workload for the average starting running back. Stop making excuses, dude.
No, he isn't a starter. Even someone like you should be able to understand that. Funny how you point out his number of touches to act like he has a normal starters role but only want to talk about his carries (which are nowhere near a normal starting RB's load) when it comes to his stats. Actually, it's not funny, it's just dumb and biased. Like you. Shut up already.

[Timmy D for MVP]

He's not a starter? What do you call it then? He touches the ball almost 20 times a game. That's a full workload for the average starting running back. Stop making excuses, dude.

Wow up to 20 touches. You know Frank Gore (3rd leading rusher, SF Niner) gets like 30 touches on a gooed game, and if he's on fire he may have the ball i his hands more. 20 touches (runs+receptions) is nothing.

[Copperhead]

Reggie Bush is not a bust. As much as some people whether they are Bush or USC haters are hoping he will be, he simply cannot be called a bust right now.

[PleezeBelieve]

Did you see how he was used? Modest gains on catches is normal for a runningback and he's mainly been used as a receiver out of the backfield. You want big plays? Check the game winning kick-off return or how he roasted SF and Dallas. Just because you're too dumb to see his value doesn't mean he's a bust.
Dude, he spends most of time in the slot, stop making sh*t up.

And I never said he didn't have some big-play ability, but certainly not enough to justify his #2 draft status and subsequent 60 mill contract (which means he's a bust). That's all I'm saying. :confusedshrug:

[LakersRuleTheNBA]

With a user name of PleezeBelieve. No one is believing you. Just STFU already!

[Real Men Wear Green]

Dude, he spends most of time in the slot, stop making sh*t up.

And I never said he didn't have some big-play ability, but certainly not enough to justify his #2 draft status and subsequent 60 mill contract (which means he's a bust). That's all I'm saying. :confusedshrug:
Again: You're an idiot. If he's lining up in the slot how can you point at his carries and act like it proves your point? Shut up already.

[PleezeBelieve]

Wow up to 20 touches. You know Frank Gore (3rd leading rusher, SF Niner) gets like 30 touches on a gooed game, and if he's on fire he may have the ball i his hands more. 20 touches (runs+receptions) is nothing.
Gore gets 30 touches a game because he produces when he carries the ball. Understand that?

If not, here you go...Man get yards when he carry, that man will continue to carry. Man don't get yard when he carry, thst man get moved to the slot to catch 5-yard swing passes. Got it? :confusedshrug:

[LakersRuleTheNBA]

Pleezeee you're a dumbass. I live in Houston, we're still pissed as *** about not drafting Reggie Bush. Just shut up!

[GOBB]

This kid has no life. A damn parrot repeats the same things and swears he is dropping a gem on the board. What a complete waste of sperm he was. Poser OSU fan that if Bush played for OSU he would be arguing the opposite of his dumbass Bush hate tirade he spews every 2 weeks.

[bringthetruth]

HE WASN"T DRAFTED TO BE A POSSESION WR.

What's so hard to understand about that. I mean, he's not even a big play receiver...at least not any more than Jones-Drew who is undoubtable the better runner.


I truly understand where you are coming from.

Reggie bush sold the sports world on his ability to run from scrimmage like every great RB and OCCASIONALLY catch the ball out of the backfield and return kicks.

IMHO he wouldn't last too long as an everydown back most thought he would be on draft day.


Those holes he ran thru at USC aren't the same playing in the NFL.

If Duece got hurt and Bush became an every down back he wouldn't last 10 games as the feature "RUNNING BACK"

[PleezeBelieve]

No, he isn't a starter. Even someone like you should be able to understand that. Funny how you point out his number of touches to act like he has a normal starters role but only want to talk about his carries (which are nowhere near a normal starting RB's load) when it comes to his stats. Actually, it's not funny, it's just dumb and biased. Like you. Shut up already.
He won't ever be a starting running back, idiot. That's the whole point of the thread. :hammerhead:

[LakersRuleTheNBA]

Again: You're an idiot. If he's lining up in the slot how can you point at his carries and act like it proves your point? Shut up already.


Real, it's not worth arguing with an idiot.

[Real Men Wear Green]

He won't ever be a starting running back, idiot. That's the whole point of the thread. :hammerhead:
Then this thread has no point. In one or two year, barring injury, he's going to be a starter, and you'll look just as dumb as ever.

[LakersRuleTheNBA]

Reggie has done a lot to the leauge already. Doesn't he lead the leauge in jersey sales?

[PleezeBelieve]

I truly understand where you are coming from.

Reggie bush sold the sports world on his ability to run from scrimmage like every great RB and OCCASIONALLY catch the ball out of the backfield and return kicks.

IMHO he wouldn't last too long as an everydown back most thought he would be on draft day.


Those holes he ran thru at USC aren't the same playing in the NFL.

If Duece got hurt and Bush became an every down back he wouldn't last 10 games as the feature "RUNNING BACK"
What's so hard with understanding this quote?

You dudes are attacking me like what I'm saying has no relevance. It's as obvious as day that Bush can't be an every down running back. Why are these people acting like that's not true? Like it's only a matter of time before he becomes a 25-carry, 5 catch a game running back like LT, who happened to rush for 1250 his rookie season. :rollingeyes:

[PleezeBelieve]

Then this thread has no point. In one or two year, barring injury, he's going to be a starter, and you'll look just as dumb as ever.
Okay genius, post some stats of a premier running back that has put similar insignificant rushing stats as a rookie? Go ahead, I dare you. I'll be wainting.

[Copperhead]

To try to label someone a bust in their first season (and especially since that season isn't even over) indeed has no relevance.

[Real Men Wear Green]

What's so hard with understanding this quote?

You dudes are attacking me like what I'm saying has no relevance. It's as obvious as day that Bush can't be an every down running back. Why are these people acting like that's not true? Like it's only a matter of time before he becomes a 25-carry, 5 catch a game running back like LT, who happened to rush for 1250 his rookie season. :rollingeyes:
It's not hard to understand, it's just not based on anything. Bush can't be an every down back? Million-dollar question: "Why?" He's an effective player now, so what's to stop him from being effective with more touches?

Okay genius, post some stats of a premier running back that has put similar insignificant rushing stats as a rookie? Go ahead, I dare you. I'll be wainting.
Again you want to ignore what Bush has done as a receiver. Shut up already.

[PleezeBelieve]

While you're at it champ...I can post a WHOLE lot of merdiocre running backs that put up similar anemic rushing stats that Bush is doing.






...btw, if the running back position is so easy transition from college to the pro's (for the ones that can do it), why is Bush struggling so much? :confusedshrug:

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Reggie Bush reminds me of Eric Metcalf. Eric Metcalf was a STUD in college. An absolute beast. But he was never a full time back. But he was one of the greatest all-around players ever. In the mold of a Herschel Walker, who basically did everything for the team.

I think Reggie will have that same type of career.

[GOBB]

Bush cant be an everydown RB? :oldlol: Gotta love the morons here. I swear.

Sean Payton will not BENCH Duece McCalister just so Bush can prove you kids wrong. Duece makes a lot of money and he is also talented. He isnt a 36yd old RB on his way out. Sean Payton offense hasnt been a rushing attack, its been pass oriented. Bush cant tell the coach "Start me and give me 20 carries & 5 passes so i can shut up the haters". :rolleyes:

[GOBB]

Reggie Bush reminds me of Eric Metcalf. Eric Metcalf was a STUD in college. An absolute beast. But he was never a full time back. But he was one of the greatest all-around players ever. In the mold of a Herschel Walker, who basically did everything for the team.

I think Reggie will have that same type of career.

Why do you think he cant be a fulltime RB.

[PleezeBelieve]

Again you want to ignore what Bush has done as a receiver. Shut up already.
No, I'm not. I already stated he a possesion WR. What more do you want me to say? If he was a big-play receiver, he'd be averaging 10+ yards a catch like Jones-Drew is doing, particularly since he's caught the ball an outrageous 84 times already. :oldlol:

[Real Men Wear Green]

No, I'm not. I already stated he a possesion WR. What more do you want me to say? If he was a big-play receiver, he'd be averaging 10+ yards a catch like Jones-Drew is doing, particularly since he's caught the ball an outrageous 84 times already. :oldlol:
The irony here? Him having 84 catches is actually a good thing. I'm done with this convo.

[PleezeBelieve]

Bush cant be an everydown RB? :oldlol: Gotta love the morons here. I swear.

Sean Payton will not BENCH Duece McCalister just so Bush can prove you kids wrong. Duece makes a lot of money and he is also talented. He isnt a 36yd old RB on his way out. Sean Payton offense hasnt been a rushing attack, its been pass oriented. Bush cant tell the coach "Start me and give me 20 carries & 5 passes so i can shut up the haters". :rolleyes:
Well, for the next 4 or 5 years Bush will continue be a scatback by design then, huh? Wow, what a bunch of bullsh*t.

[LakersRuleTheNBA]

From watching Saints games on tv. Bush makes other guys around him better. Bush is a threat at wr, a threat at running the back. Bush gets double/triple team. Guys like Duece and Colston benefit from this, being wide open.

It doesn't matter how many yards Bush is getting. He's helping his team win..

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Bush cant be an everydown RB? Gotta love the morons here. I swear.

Because he will have to decide which he values more: running the ball EVERY DOWN, or being their punt return/kickoff man. You can't do it all. He will get tired if he tries.

So until he becomes the a full time rb, you can't call him a full time rb. I never said he couldn't. But as of right now... he's Eric Metcalf.

[PleezeBelieve]

The irony here? Him having 84 catches is actually a good thing. I'm done with this convo.
Yeah, my man...just like averaging 3.2 yards a carry is a bad thing, duh? Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner here.

[GOBB]

Well, for the next 4 or 5 years Bush will continue be a scatback by design then, huh? Wow, what a bunch of bullsh*t.

:wtf:

[Wuxia]

PleezeBelieve

Congratulations! You won the "Stupidest ISH Poster Award"!

[PleezeBelieve]

From watching Saints games on tv. Bush makes other guys around him better. Bush is a threat at wr, a threat at running the back. Bush gets double/triple team. Guys like Duece and Colston benefit from this, being wide open.

It doesn't matter how many yards Bush is getting. He's helping his team win..
:roll: :roll: :roll:, how the hell can he make other people better when he can't make himself better? :hammerhead:





...byw, since when was it made possible to "double/triple team" a running back into averaging 3.2 yards per carry? Just a question, though, cause teams really need to start "double/triple teaming Tomilson. :rolleyes:

[GOBB]

Because he will have to decide which he values more: running the ball EVERY DOWN, or being their punt return/kickoff man. You can't do it all. He will get tired if he tries.

So until he becomes the a full time rb, you can't call him a full time rb. I never said he couldn't. But as of right now... he's Eric Metcalf.

He will be an everydown RB. Right now the Saints are using him different from what some fans expected. Saints are winning and i doubt they will decide to stop using Bush like they have (recieving threat) for now. Fans tend to be impatient. It'll happen.

[PleezeBelieve]

:wtf:
You're the one that said Peyton won't bench Duece. You think Duece is going somewhere anytime soon? He's just turned 28. When healthy he's good for 1200 yeards a season. According to your rationale, when the f*ck will Bush ever get the opportunity to be the premier back over the next 4 or 5 years?

[Wuxia]

Contrary to his username, I don't think this guy really believes what he is saying. I think he is just trying to stir sh!t up.

[PleezeBelieve]

Contrary to his username, I don't think this guy really believes what he is saying. I think he is just trying to stir sh!t up.
Eitrher make a decent arument either way or the get the f*ck out of my thread.

[LakersRuleTheNBA]

Contrary to his username, I don't think this guy really believes what he is saying. I think he is just trying to stir sh!t up.


Copy that.

(Pleeze) shut up!

[LakersRuleTheNBA]

Eitrher make a decent arument either way or the get the f*ck out of my thread.

You're an idiot. I hope the mod shut down this thread.

[PleezeBelieve]

You're an idiot. I hope the mod shut down this thread.
:violin:, ho hum another snitch.

[LakersRuleTheNBA]

http://images.populus.ch/cgi-bin/pixdir/edwardnorton/Oh_God_This_Thread_Sucks.jpg

[Wuxia]

Eitrher make a decent arument either way or the get the f*ck out of my thread.

Every single possible arguement has been made against you. You seem to be the only one out of 3028403984093248242434 people that thinks Bush is a bust. You are a dumbass and you are wrong too.

[knickballer]

Bush cant be an everydown RB? :oldlol: Gotta love the morons here. I swear.

Sean Payton will not BENCH Duece McCalister just so Bush can prove you kids wrong. Duece makes a lot of money and he is also talented. He isnt a 36yd old RB on his way out. Sean Payton offense hasnt been a rushing attack, its been pass oriented. Bush cant tell the coach "Start me and give me 20 carries & 5 passes so i can shut up the haters". :rolleyes:


Bush isnt a everydown back he wasnt a full time back in college too, Lendale White took the load off him.

But still 84 reception for a running back is darn good.

[TEXAS BATMAN]

Bush should thank his lucky stars he ended up in Sean Payton's system and backing up Deuce McAllister. Take it from somebody who's seen Sean Paytono's coaching capabilities. I can only imagine what he would have done if Parcells hand't came back he succeeded him and he had the two pronged attack of Jones and Barber.

Bush has not impressed me. Save some Sportscenter highlights, what has he done? 2 big games? His numbers are an aberration. 1200 ALL PURPOSE yards. I bet Devin Hester has more all purpose yards than he has. Refute it with stats who cares.

The Saints could get along without Bush. They would be in serious trouble if the Deuce got hurt. Depend on 'Happy Feet' Reggie for the tough yardage? Give me a break. He's a east to west runner, and unless he adapts he won't adjust to this league. Running backs are expected to hit holes and break a big one occassionally. Not look for a big play and try to make something happen every time they touch they ball. Enough. I'll let the jaded groupies and the hater fanatics gnaw on bones. Bust? Not quite. Even close to rookie of the year? You're kidding me.

[LakersRuleTheNBA]

A Texas fan not impressed with Reggie Bush and USC. What's new? Isn't USC playing in the BCS bowl game while Texas is playing in what? You're just hating Reggie Bush cause he's from USC. Next.

And I don't even like USC.



P.S. I am from Houston, I am still mad we didn't draft Bush.

[ALlArOuNDPIaya]

A Texas fan not impressed with Reggie Bush and USC. What's new? Isn't USC playing in the BCS bowl game while Texas is playing in what? You're just hating Reggie Bush cause he's from USC. Next.

And I don't even like USC.



P.S. I am from Houston, I am still mad we didn't draft Bush.
You were better off trading the pick and not injuring dominique Davis silly.

[LakersRuleTheNBA]

You were better off trading the pick and not injuring dominique Davis silly.


Please don't respond to any of my post. I don't respond to any midget who has to copy another poster identity. Word of advice, get your own identity and a life.

[poorlilrich]

bush started the season out with somthing like 1.9 ypc if he has risen his avg

to 3.4 ypc then he must good. He has the most spectacular plays by a rb.

hes the most exciting running back to watch. Reggie bush is not a bust

[ALlArOuNDPIaya]

Please don't respond to any of my post. I don't respond to any midget who has to copy another poster identity. Word of advice, get your own identity and a life.
What the f*ck is your problem buddy? I'm sorry I have >300 posts in a 6 month period, get a life?

I was willing to have an intelligent conversation on how DD was better suited for Houston. But nevermind, you clearly don't have the mental capacity for intelligent debate. (As noted in this thread from your responses)

Typical groupie I guess.

[qwerty]

lets here your latest ISH diss record.

[LakersRuleTheNBA]

Pleezeee and AlLArounPlaiya - whatever that copy user name is. Both of them has to be the biggest clowns on ISH.

Both groupies..

Both haters, but one guy can't seemed to find his own identity. No wonder guys like GOBB clowns these guys every day...

What a shame..

[ALlArOuNDPIaya]

Pleezeee and AlLArounPlaiya - whatever that copy user name is. Both of them has to be the biggest clowns on ISH.
And this boys and girls, proves my point dearly. Ask an intellectual question; he freezes, and BAM! comes at you by calling you a clown :oldlol:

get off ISH, you are outlying the mean of the IQ on the board.

[statman32]

Pleezeee and AlLArounPlaiya - whatever that copy user name is. Both of them has to be the biggest clowns on ISH.
include your name with those fools...or maybe you dont remember a couple days ago when you started SunsChampsIn07 name or something like that just to spam the board so people would hate the suns

[LakersRuleTheNBA]

include your name with those fools...or maybe you dont remember a couple days ago when you started SunsChampsIn07 name or something like that just to spam the board so people would hate the suns


If you actually belive I started that name. You're a bigger idiot than I thought. I am not here to hate or disturb. I am here to chat good sports with the fellow ISH.

[XxNeXuSxX]

And this boys and girls, proves my point dearly. Ask an intellectual question; he freezes, and BAM! comes at you by calling you a clown :oldlol:

get off ISH, you are outlying the mean of the IQ on the board.
Haha :roll: So true man, this little kid told me to stop typing to him because "I was being a bully" when I proved he was talking straight out of his as$. Didn't realize I was the bully around here :oldlol:

Ignore him, he will eventually get banned for being an illiterate, ignorant d*ck rider who can't form a grammatically correct sentence.

[XxNeXuSxX]

If you actually belive I started that name. You're a bigger idiot than I thought. I am not here to hate or disturb. I am here to chat good sports with the fellow ISH.
No you aren't. Or if you have, you clearly haven't to show it.

[statman32]

If you actually belive I started that name. You're a bigger idiot than I thought. I am not here to hate or disturb. I am here to chat good sports with the fellow ISH.
insidehoops already told me you have the same ip....he banned it by the way...go check

[LakersRuleTheNBA]

Seriously stat. It wasn't me. I swear. I am here to chat good sports, not create hate like these fools. I swear.

[XxNeXuSxX]

insidehoops already told me you have the same ip....he banned it by the way...go check
Caught lying again :oldlol:

Time to retire your ISH name. When you come back try to get a name a little less flare to it, you know stay in the closet a little. Oh, and try to type complete sentences with subject/verb/adjective agreement.

[ALlArOuNDPIaya]

Pleezeee and AlLArounPlaiya - whatever that copy user name is. Both of them has to be the biggest clowns on ISH.

Both groupies..

Both haters, but one guy can't seemed to find his own identity. No wonder guys like GOBB clowns these guys every day...

What a shame..


I liked the attempt of the edit after I signed off to make it look like I misquoted you. creative... well on second though, no it wasn't.

didn't realize you were a God of basketball groupie too! but you are still an idiot

GOBB Clowns me? would you like to even point to a single post where GoBB has even attempted to flame me? it hasn't happened you stupid fvuker.

oh I also like the contradictories in saying both groupies... both haters :applause: :oldlol: good job, you are proving my case and point that you are unable of intelligent conversation on this forum.

[ALlArOuNDPIaya]

oh and dont expect gobb to come and flee to your defense. :oldlol: like kobe, he doesn't care about you.

[TEXAS BATMAN]

A Texas fan not impressed with Reggie Bush and USC. What's new? Isn't USC playing in the BCS bowl game while Texas is playing in what? You're just hating Reggie Bush cause he's from USC. Next.

And I don't even like USC.



P.S. I am from Houston, I am still mad we didn't draft Bush.

For the record I liked Bush in college. I'm not a big Sportscenter fan but I'd catch his clips sometimes. Only reason I rooted against USC in that bowl game was because it was against my home state. If USC would've battered the Longhorns with LenDale White, they'd have won that game.

I just didn't think he'd blow up his first year like the fanatics projected him too. There was going to be no Lebron like phenomenon takeover. And he hasn't.

[GOBB]

Bush isnt a everydown back he wasnt a full time back in college too, Lendale White took the load off him.

But still 84 reception for a running back is darn good.

In college if you got 2 great RB's you use them. So miss me with that BS. Now you sit there and explain to me how he isnt a everydown RB. Rather capable of being since right now in his rookie year he isnt. Not because he cant but because the coach chooses not to use him as an every down RB considering the talent at RB that was there before him.

[LakersRuleTheNBA]

For the record I liked Bush in college. I'm not a big Sportscenter fan but I'd catch his clips sometimes. Only reason I rooted against USC in that bowl game was because it was against my home state. If USC would've battered the Longhorns with LenDale White, they'd have won that game.

I just didn't think he'd blow up his first year like the fanatics projected him too. There was going to be no Lebron like phenomenon takeover. And he hasn't.


I understand what your trying to say Texas. I am also from Texas, but I didn't really care who won in the Rose Bowl. I just think you have to give Bush time, you can't label him a bust yet. Bush's has been a freak!

[LakersRuleTheNBA]

[/QUOTE]Originally Posted by knickballer
Bush isnt a everydown back he wasnt a full time back in college too, Lendale White took the load off him.

But still 84 reception for a running back is darn good.[/QUOTE]



------------------------------------------------------------------

I think Bush and White shared time cause, USC recruit so well. Everyone of those rb at USC deserved playing time. Doesn't USC have five or sixe, 5*star rb recruit waiting to shine?

[ALlArOuNDPIaya]

I think Bush and White shared time cause, USC recruit so well. Everyone of those rb at USC deserved playing time. Doesn't USC have five or sixe, 5*star rb recruit waiting to shine?
:roll: Oh really? I thought they just played White because they felt bad for him. Nevermind, the fact the guy was an absolute beast going up on the line, or how he provided huge morale boosts on the field. Must just be they felt "bad"

Great analysis dumbass.

[JtotheIzzo]

Just checked his stats and this guy is averaging 3.2 ypc on a team with crazy weapons while the Jones-Drew kid is averaging 5.7 ypc on the offensively challenged Jaquar squad. And keep in mind, both of these players have been slowly intergrated into their repective teams offense..so it's a fair comparison.

With that being said, if you're going to be a paying a running back that was the No #2 draft pick 60 mill, then I would expect for him to atleast aveage 4 a carry his rookie season. At least that shows me he has the ability to make plays in this league. AQnd not only does Jones-Drew kid average more ypc, he also averages more yards per catch as well.

Let the excuses begin. :rolleyes:

ban this ass clown. Thist thread is a microcosm of everything that is wrong with this board

[04mzwach]

Just checked his stats and this guy is averaging 3.2 ypc on a team with crazy weapons while the Jones-Drew kid is averaging 5.7 ypc on the offensively challenged Jaquar squad. And keep in mind, both of these players have been slowly intergrated into their repective teams offense..so it's a fair comparison.

With that being said, if you're going to be a paying a running back that was the No #2 draft pick 60 mill, then I would expect for him to atleast aveage 4 a carry his rookie season. At least that shows me he has the ability to make plays in this league. AQnd not only does Jones-Drew kid average more ypc, he also averages more yards per catch as well.

Let the excuses begin. :rolleyes:
Please don't post a dumb OT thread like this.

[Smokee]

Reggie Bush is/was overated. Hes going to be good but not as great as the hype. Last RB i can remember hyped up this much was Ricky Williams and i bet he doesnt have as good a career as Ricky. Hes had alot of touches in NO's this year and there are other rookies doing more with less. Like i said he'll be good but not great or worthy of his hype :pimp:

[Wuxia]

Reggie Bush is/was overated. Hes going to be good but not as great as the hype. Last RB i can remember hyped up this much was Ricky Williams and i bet he doesnt have as good a career as Ricky. Hes had alot of touches in NO's this year and there are other rookies doing more with less. Like i said he'll be good but not great or worthy of his hype :pimp:

First off, Ricky wasn't even the most hyped back in his own draft, Edgeran James was. Second, Reggie and Ricky are totally different type of backs. Its like comparing apple and oranges.

[gts]

bucket of mud>PleezeBelieve

[MTing]

get off the drugs

[Pistol Pete]

By reading this thread, it's quite evident that nearly everyone who is calling Reggie Bush a bust either hasn't watched him play, or refuses to acknowledge his obvious skill and the position he was placed in.

To those who argue he isn't an everyday running back, it's because he doesn't have to be, why would Sean Payton put the entire workload on a rookie when he has a stud 28 year old running back who is 6'1, 230 and is a great runner? He wouldn't, because he's not dumb. Payton puts Reggie in a position where the team can benefit from him the most and that's currently more as a reciever.

To those who say it's bad he has 84 receptions, you clearly are just missing something. If you haven't watched, Reggie Bush gets alot of short dump passes, it's not like he's a vertical threat downfield, we have Devery Henderson for that. Bush can make some special things happen with those dump passes, and has shown it, like against Dallas. Payton obviously believes that getting Reggie the ball in space will be beneficial to him, and clearly he's right, because Reggie is doing well with 1,125 yards and 7 touchdowns.

To those who say he hasn't lived up to the hype, he's a rookie who's on pace for a 1,300 yard, 9 touchdown season. I don't think you can refute that that is a quality season for any professional football player, especially a rookie.

By reading, it's like everyone expected him to come in and put up 25 touchdowns, when simply it isn't realistic on a good football team. He is playing within himself and the offense. Drew Brees, Marques Colston, Devery Henderson, Joe Horn, Deuce McAllister - Reggie Bush is simply one of many weapons on arguably the best offense in the NFL, he won't get the 40 touches other speciality players get, because quite simply it isn't necessary. Why overload one player when you can effectively spread it out?

When comparing him to Maurice Jones-Drew, it's simply dumb. Maurice Jones-Drew has obviously performed well, but I don't think he has anywhere near the ceiling that Bush has in terms of potential. If Reggie reaches his potential is up to him, but I clearly think he has the tools to become a better player.

All of this goes without stating, that he has had a tremendous impact in bringing life back to the New Orleans franchise. The Saints were constantly being rumoured on their way to San Antonio last year, but Reggie brought life along with others back into the city, it's fans, and brought national exposure to the team. Reggie's impact goes much bigger then the field, and I hope you are not so naive that you neglect this, no disrespect to Maurice Jones-Drew, but I don't believe he has near the impact or appeal to the media.

That's the last I'll comment on the situation, I'm a Saints fan who either watches or listens to the games nearly every week. If you choose to disregard Bush's impact on the game, then that's your loss, you are missing out on a player with some tremendous skill.

[GOBB]

People act like Duece isnt a good RB. Sean Payton aint stupid to let a talent like that rot on the bench. The NFL is about matchups and how you can exploit and take advantage of them. Thats what Sean has been doing all season long on offense. People just dont have a clue to the game and how coaches think. The more weapons on the field the better. Sean Payton agrees. With a QB like Drew Brees why wouldnt you put recievers all around him? :confusedshrug: Think people think. Get off the crap because he didnt rush for 2000yds on 5.0+ypc making 5 top 10 players of the NFL season. He didnt do it ok? Fine. Dont tell me he cant be an everydown RB. Based on what? Still no one replies to why. You cant use the size argument can you? Sorry for that. Find something tho. :hammerhead:

Bush hasnt been superman this year. He hasnt been near a bust. ROY canidate with a case to win it. Period.

[statman32]

im gonna try and compare basketball and football a lil

when bush came in the league people expected him to make a lebron like impact in his rookie season but that was a lil unrealistic

the dude has been sick just not as good as some peoples unrealistic expecttions

[XxNeXuSxX]

Oh yeah to this topic:

One year of sharing the ball with Deuce and he's labeled a bust? Come on man that's pretty soon to even be thinking of calls like that. People are still giving Darko time and feel he isn't a bust and he's been in the league 4 years.

Players need to develope, and in Bush's case, adjust.

[GothamKnight]

I went to USC have followed SC football since 98. Bush was a slow starter as a freshman. The same thing is happening in the NFL. He's learning and adapting. He's going to get a lot better. He just has to be patient and choose the times he goes for big plays better. Sometimes he thinks he can go backwards to get some room when he could just get 3-5 yards by going straight.

And the thread starter has obviously not watched a single Saints game... Bush gets a TON of attention from defenses so he makes things easier for the other guys.

[crisoner]

stats dont tell the WHOLE story buddy

[JtotheIzzo]

Bush is awesome, and if you've watched a saints game you know how much of a freak of nature his talent is

he is a big reason they are doing so well

he draws so much attention from the defense

He lines up everywhere and makes it very hard for teams to blitz because they always have to be aware of Reggie

he's the biggest reason for Drew Brees success because his mere presence in the flat or backfield buys Drew time to throw

He had a four TD game recently showing disgusting amounts of ability


this thread starter is a moron who should be banned after a thorough beating

[Jackass18]

He's a rookie that's putting up good numbers (over 1,300 total yards, 7 TDs and 3rd in the NFL in receptions) even without starting and he's already a bust? If you bought into hype machine, then I guess his rookie year was somewhat of a bust. If you're that naive, then it's on you and not Bush.


Okay genius, post some stats of a premier running back that has put similar insignificant rushing stats as a rookie? Go ahead, I dare you. I'll be wainting.

Shaun Alexander: 64 carries, 313 yards, 4.9 ypc, 2 TDs
Tiki Barber: 136 carries, 511 yards, 3.8 ypc, 4 TDs
Larry Csonka: 138 carries, 540 yards, 3.9 ypc, 6 TDs
Ahman Green: 35 carries, 209 yards, 6.0 ypc, 1 TD
Leroy Kelly: 6 carries, 12 yards, 2.0 ypc, 0 TDs
Walter Payton: 196 carries, 679 yards, 3.5 ypc, 7 TDs
John Riggins: 180 carries, 769 yards, 4.3 ypc, 1 TD
O.J. Simpson: 181 carries, 697 yards, 3.9 ypc, 2 TDs
Jim Taylor: 52 carries, 247 yards, 4.8 ypc, 1 TD

[Real Men Wear Green]

First 1,274 yard, 8 TD bust in NFL history?

[JtotheIzzo]

Pleeze.Believe is a tool

[LiL Stevie]

Talk about a thread backfire :lol:

[HaNdLe ThE RoCk]

Just checked his stats and this guy is averaging 3.2 ypc on a team with crazy weapons while the Jones-Drew kid is averaging 5.7 ypc on the offensively challenged Jaquar squad. And keep in mind, both of these players have been slowly intergrated into their repective teams offense..so it's a fair comparison.

With that being said, if you're going to be a paying a running back that was the No #2 draft pick 60 mill, then I would expect for him to atleast aveage 4 a carry his rookie season. At least that shows me he has the ability to make plays in this league. AQnd not only does Jones-Drew kid average more ypc, he also averages more yards per catch as well.

Let the excuses begin. :rolleyes:

*sigh*

looks back at this post and starts laughing

:oldlol:

[I'm Sorry, Guys!]

I win, ISH loses again.

Thread valid. :rockon:

[I'm Sorry, Guys!]

:roll:, people in this thread was like, "Splitting time with Deuce is the reason Bush is not producing and averaging 3+ yards a carry".

:oldlol:

Just another example where people openly campaigned for me to be banned for speaking the TRUTH in advance. Go read through the thread. People calling me idiots and sh*t for stating the obvious. These are my experiences on ISH. :rolleyes:

[GOBB]

Saints OL is bad. No RB can be successful without a OL. Look at Adrian Peterson...runs behind a great OL. Usually critical for a RB coupled with thier talent/gifts.

Bush will be like Tiki Barber when its all said and done.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Bush will be like Tiki Barber when its all said and done.

Nope.

Brian Westbrook.... and no better than him either.

[Randy]

Nope.

Brian Westbrook.... and no better than him either.

January 2nd, huh?

Are you that pathetic and desperate?

[Kobe24]

Like GOBB said, the Saints OL is terrible. He's averaging 3.7 ypc which is not great but not terrible. For the sake of comparing, him,Marshawn Lynch, Portis and Lendale White all average 3.7 ypc. Also, Reggie averages 13 carries a game, what RB can suceed with 13 carries a game?

[LiL Stevie]

Not having Deuce McAllister has hurt Bush this season too

[GOBB]

Nope.

Brian Westbrook.... and no better than him either.

Not much difference with Tiki Barber and Brian Westbrook.

[statman32]

If Reggie Bush ends up like Westbrook without the injuries that's a pretty good player.

I love how everybody calls players busts after 1 to 2 years..then they disappear into the night when that player finnaly develops.

[statman32]

Shall I bump all the threads that PB hyped Troy Smith and Ohio St last year. This topic is still to be determined but there's no question that Ohio St was a fraud last year

[I'm Sorry, Guys!]

Shall I bump all the threads that PB hyped Troy Smith and Ohio St last year. This topic is still to be determined but there's no question that Ohio St was a fraud last year
Troy Smith a fraud? :oldlol:

PleezeBelieve he will be the future QB for the Ravens.

As far as Ohio State goes..wait another month and we'll see what you have to say. No gloating before the game from me this year. You'll see.

[I'm Sorry, Guys!]

Like GOBB said, the Saints OL is terrible. He's averaging 3.7 ypc which is not great but not terrible. For the sake of comparing, him,Marshawn Lynch, Portis and Lendale White all average 3.7 ypc. Also, Reggie averages 13 carries a game, what RB can suceed with 13 carries a game?
That's why a career journeyman running back had 113 yards last week. :rolleyes:

You dude just can't stop with the excuses, damn.

[-primetime-]

Saints OL is bad. No RB can be successful without a OL. Look at Adrian Peterson...runs behind a great OL. Usually critical for a RB coupled with thier talent/gifts.

Bush will be like Tiki Barber when its all said and done.
good god dude...

Bush isn't even half of Peterson....don't ever compare them again

Bush is not capable of runing between the tackles...and he isn't that great running around the outside either...

in fact the only reason I would even say he is decent is because he can catch...

IMO Bush is a below average RB



and he will NEVER be on the same level as Tiki or Westbrook...




I can't believe Bush is STILL being overrated after this year...people are still making excuses for the guy....he can't run...simple as that....make him a WR already.

[GOBB]

good god dude...

Bush isn't even half of Peterson....don't ever compare them again

Who compared the two? I highlighted a RB who has the best run blocking OL in the NFL and showed how the two were needed to be successful. You continue to struggle with reading and comprehension here or maybe you're multi taskin and have Dooms nuts in your mouth again? :confusedshrug:


Bush is not capable of runing between the tackles...and he isn't that great running around the outside either...

He is capable. And he is much better running outside the tackles, especially counters/misdirections. You are clueless to the skills he has...put aside your personal bias against Bush and evaluate properly or dont speak on the player at all.


in fact the only reason I would even say he is decent is because he can catch...

IMO Bush is a below average RB

Your opinion holds little weight when it comes to football.



and he will NEVER be on the same level as Tiki or Westbrook...

He already has the same skill set dumbass. Give him a OL and sit back.




I can't believe Bush is STILL being overrated after this year...people are still making excuses for the guy....he can't run...simple as that....make him a WR already.

He's not a WR. And excuses? You mean valid reasons why RBs arent successful when its not thier actual talent/skill or lack thereof setting them back? :roll:

[-primetime-]

Your opinion holds little weight when it comes to football.
MY NFL OPINION > your nfl opinion


He already has the same skill set dumbass. Give him a OL and sit back.
He already has the skills of Tiki and Westbrook????

Is that a ****in joke???

Reggie Bush is about as powerful as Tiki's right leg...and that is pushin it...the kid has no ability to bust through the middle...he has to rely on speed/moves...and that never works...

his career high rush last year wa 29 yards...he averages a pathetic 3.2 ypc

hell I would probably take Deuce over him...he just can't hack it

amazing what a good college career can do to a player's hype....we are still seeing that with Vince Young

[GOBB]

MY NFL OPINION > your nfl opinion

He already has the skills of Tiki and Westbrook????

Is that a ****in joke???

Reggie Bush is about as powerful as Tiki's right leg...and that is pushin it...the kid has no ability to bust through the middle...he has to rely on speed/moves...and that never works...

his career high rush last year wa 29 yards...he averages a pathetic 3.2 ypc

hell I would probably take Deuce over him...he just can't hack it

amazing what a good college career can do to a player's hype....we are still seeing that with Vince Young

I love how skills in your mind = strength. :roll: You're so not on my level when it comes to football. The funny part is Tiki Barber started off as a punt returner/3rd down back, backup, starter then featured RB. And it was only until he added weight and got STRONGER. The same knocks on Westbrook/Barber were they couldnt run between the tackles. Thats been proven wrong as it will with Bush. Tiki/Brian rely on speed/moves...thier strength allows them to absorb contact, break tackles, stiff arm. But all 3 have the similar skill set dumbass.

[-primetime-]

I love how skills in your mind = strength. :roll: You're so not on my level when it comes to football. The funny part is Tiki Barber started off as a punt returner/3rd down back, backup, starter then featured RB. And it was only until he added weight and got STRONGER. The same knocks on Westbrook/Barber were they couldnt run between the tackles. Thats been proven wrong as it will with Bush. Tiki/Brian rely on speed/moves...thier strength allows them to absorb contact, break tackles, stiff arm. But all 3 have the similar skill set dumbass.
I guess they all have the same skills...:rolleyes:

only Bush is half thie size and can't run worth a shit...



the fact that you are comparing Bush to Tiki and Westbrook is a complete joke...sorry

[GOBB]

I guess they all have the same skills...:rolleyes:

only Bush is half thie size and can't run worth a shit...



the fact that you are comparing Bush to Tiki and Westbrook is a complete joke...sorry

Tiki is 5'10 205
Bwest is 5'10 203
R.Bush is 6'0 203

Tiki Barber added 15lbs of muscle during his NFL career. He came into the NFL at about 188 or so. The knocks on Tiki were similar to B.West....he's too small, he goes down easily on the first contact, needs to get stronger vs defensive players with size ie taking on blocks, breaking tackles etc etc. Brian Westbrook was compared to Tiki Barber in terms of running ability.

All 3 are recieving threats, with speed, agility and punt return abilities. It took Tiki 6yrs before he became a "featured" RB and 2yrs after that before he took on "elite" RB status. It took Brian Westbrook 5yrs before he rushed for over 1,000yds and this year he is set to pass last years total yards rushed, rushing touchdowns, receptions, recieving yards and touchdowns. Recap thats 5 categories Brian is due to post career highs in...guess what year he is in? 6th year. Go figure.

Yet Reggie finishing up his 2nd year after his first was spent splitting carries and this year running behind a bad run blocking OL...you are pretty much done with him huh? 157 rushing attempts is all Reggie Bush was given. Neither Tiki nor Brian could do ANYTHING MORE than what Reggie Bush has done with 157 rushing attempts. Heck check thier history and see if they ever had 150-170 total carries in thier career and what thier production looked like. Or would you want me to school your dumbass some more?

So no Reggie Bush is NOT the hyped up Hall of Fame, once in a blue moon RB he was proclaimd to be. He is however only 2yrs in a long NFL career where his rivals Tiki, Brian needed x amount of years before you gave them :applause: and ranked them highly.

All 3 have spawned off the special HOF RB named Marshall Faulk. The versatile RB (which it seems most NFL teams are more geared to nowadays) that can not only rush the football but become a threat catching out the backfield thus creating mismatches as LBs are now forced to cover and/or spy. But history shows -primetime- will read and comprehend like I compared all 3 to Marshall and say "They couldnt carry Marshall's jockstrap!!!" thus missing thef*cking point because he is allergic to those.

When you do research you'll see Reggie Bush has often been compared to who? Brian Westbrook. When you find out who Brian Westbrook has been compared too you'll arrive to Tiki Barber. And when you find out who Tiki Barber has been compared too its Marshall Faulk....all in terms of styles.

Tomlinson is also compared to Marshall however the difference with Tomlinson and Westbrook/Tiki/Bush is simple. Tomlinson displays POWER much like Adrian Peterson when he hits the hole, picks up a blitz/block or runs thru tacklers.

Tiki/Briah/Reggie, all possess the same skill set. The only difference right now those two had that Reggie doesnt? Strength and a OL that run blocks. And Reggie is strong...not to be confused with weak. But he hasnt reached his peak physically like those two have/did when they rushed the football 5-6yrs in. Neither started off any more stronger than Reggie. So you're stuck on Reggie not impacting, producing now...wont happen. So get off it and acknowledge what I've schooled you on.

[-primetime-]

Tiki is 5'10 205
Bwest is 5'10 203
R.Bush is 6'0 203

Tiki Barber added 15lbs of muscle during his NFL career. He came into the NFL at about 188 or so. The knocks on Tiki were similar to B.West....he's too small, he goes down easily on the first contact, needs to get stronger vs defensive players with size ie taking on blocks, breaking tackles etc etc. Brian Westbrook was compared to Tiki Barber in terms of running ability.

All 3 are recieving threats, with speed, agility and punt return abilities. It took Tiki 6yrs before he became a "featured" RB and 2yrs after that before he took on "elite" RB status. It took Brian Westbrook 5yrs before he rushed for over 1,000yds and this year he is set to pass last years total yards rushed, rushing touchdowns, receptions, recieving yards and touchdowns. Recap thats 5 categories Brian is due to post career highs in...guess what year he is in? 6th year. Go figure.

Yet Reggie finishing up his 2nd year after his first was spent splitting carries and this year running behind a bad run blocking OL...you are pretty much done with him huh? 157 rushing attempts is all Reggie Bush was given. Neither Tiki nor Brian could do ANYTHING MORE than what Reggie Bush has done with 157 rushing attempts. Heck check thier history and see if they ever had 150-170 total carries in thier career and what thier production looked like. Or would you want me to school your dumbass some more?

So no Reggie Bush is NOT the hyped up Hall of Fame, once in a blue moon RB he was proclaimd to be. He is however only 2yrs in a long NFL career where his rivals Tiki, Brian needed x amount of years before you gave them :applause: and ranked them highly.

All 3 have spawned off the special HOF RB named Marshall Faulk. The versatile RB (which it seems most NFL teams are more geared to nowadays) that can not only rush the football but become a threat catching out the backfield thus creating mismatches as LBs are now forced to cover and/or spy. But history shows -primetime- will read and comprehend like I compared all 3 to Marshall and say "They couldnt carry Marshall's jockstrap!!!" thus missing thef*cking point because he is allergic to those.

When you do research you'll see Reggie Bush has often been compared to who? Brian Westbrook. When you find out who Brian Westbrook has been compared too you'll arrive to Tiki Barber. And when you find out who Tiki Barber has been compared too its Marshall Faulk....all in terms of styles.

Tomlinson is also compared to Marshall however the difference with Tomlinson and Westbrook/Tiki/Bush is simple. Tomlinson displays POWER much like Adrian Peterson when he hits the hole, picks up a blitz/block or runs thru tacklers.

Tiki/Briah/Reggie, all possess the same skill set. The only difference right now those two had that Reggie doesnt? Strength and a OL that run blocks. And Reggie is strong...not to be confused with weak. But he hasnt reached his peak physically like those two have/did when they rushed the football 5-6yrs in. Neither started off any more stronger than Reggie. So you're stuck on Reggie not impacting, producing now...wont happen. So get off it and acknowledge what I've schooled you on.
solid post...I'll give you that

and I wasn't aware that Bush was the same size....taller even...are you sure those aren't thier college sizes???...I'll take your word for it

a couple things though:

-imo it is too early to compare Bush to the likes of Tiki or Westbrook. They are accomplished runners and Bush has accomplished nothing other than a great college career. Bush has not lived up to his hype at all. Both Tiki and Westbrook have proven that they can carry the workload themselves....Bush has proven that he needs help. You can not blame me for cringing when you compare an over-hyped player to those guys...can you :confusedshrug: . And you may very well end up being right that he goes on to have a great career...but you could also be wrong. He may continue to prove that he is a complete dud.........(see Ricky Williams)

-I never looked at Bush as being like Westbrook...I always heard him being called "a poor man's Gale Sayers". he was known for his amazing speed and moves...like Barry, but not quite that much. (btw Barry is proof that a RB doesn't need a great o-line)...I thought Bush was more of the speedy/flashy/never gets touched type....Tiki and Westbrook seem more physical in thier style...another reason this comparison makes me cringe

[statman32]

Wow! Just when I thought primetime couldn't be any dumber than he already is... he does this.

Are you really telling me its ok to call AP the best running back in football after 10 games but its not ok to say Bush could be a Westbrook like running back?

You are a joke.. Its as simple as that.

[GOBB]

solid post...I'll give you that

and I wasn't aware that Bush was the same size....taller even...are you sure those aren't thier college sizes???...I'll take your word for it

If I posted college sizes Tiki Barber would be smaller. 5'10 188 and Brian Westbrook 5'9 200 (still solid tho, not much difference).


a couple things though:

-imo it is too early to compare Bush to the likes of Tiki or Westbrook. They are accomplished runners and Bush has accomplished nothing other than a great college career. Bush has not lived up to his hype at all. Both Tiki and Westbrook have proven that they can carry the workload themselves....Bush has proven that he needs help. You can not blame me for cringing when you compare an over-hyped player to those guys...can you :confusedshrug: . And you may very well end up being right that he goes on to have a great career...but you could also be wrong. He may continue to prove that he is a complete dud.........(see Ricky Williams)

I said Reggie Bush will end up like Tiki Barber. Didnt imply Reggie Bush right now is. Its a projection...that could be wrong in the end. When you look at Reggie Bush and ask yourself "At his best who do you think he could resemble?" and I come up with Tiki Barber and it even means more because both could go down a similar career path. Tiki was a 2nd round pick at the top of the 2nd round and had expecations (not like Bush). He didnt do much of anything early on as far as rushing. He was a 3rd down RB whose primary goal was pass catching and punt returning. Gradually he turned into a starting RB. Took him 6yrs to get stronger, bigger and get the carries needed to showcase his talent. He had a fumbling problem that was corrected within 2yrs and he became an elite RB in year 8. Then 3yrs he was a stud playing at his highest level before retiring.

I see Reggie Bush having a similar career path as far as gradually becoming the runner some think he can be. Brian Westbrook had the same type deal...too small, not strong enough, cant run between the tackles, lack of carries, not a featured RB, cant handle the load. 5th season he put that to rest when he was given a chance. Eagles still dont run him like they should but this year they have done a better job than they ever have in his career.

Thats why I used these two Rbs because not only do they have the same skills I see Reggie following the same road. He'll get more carries next season and if N.O can improve that OL to run block? We shall see what Bush can do in year 3. Offseason he should continue to get stronger and work out with Tomlinson like he did this past season. If he can get 240 carries next year I wanna see what he can bring. Not guranteeing a thing but when I project the bese case scenerio I see Tiki Barber in Reggie Bush.


-I never looked at Bush as being like Westbrook...I always heard him being called "a poor man's Gale Sayers". he was known for his amazing speed and moves...like Barry, but not quite that much. (btw Barry is proof that a RB doesn't need a great o-line)...I thought Bush was more of the speedy/flashy/never gets touched type....Tiki and Westbrook seem more physical in thier style...another reason this comparison makes me cringe

Barry had an Pro Bowl LT...Barry didnt have a great OL but the OL was better than whats in N.O. But we are also talkin about one of if not the greatest runner of all time. Barry could have done the damn thing behind N.O line because he was great. Reggie will never be at that level. Gale Sayers comparison was simply due to the cut back ability without losing speed. If you look at Reggie run in college he made amazing cut backs, change of directions and moves remininscent of Gale. Thats why people used Gale.

Brian Westbrook is more likely to juke you then take you on and get yards. He only takes on defensive players when there is no choice. Same with Tiki...and once both got stronger? They were able to be more physical than they used to be. Stiff arming guys weighing 250 to the ground. Reggie isnt at that level strength wise...but again I'm just saying if he ever got to that point? He'd be Tiki Barber.

He could very well never reach Tiki or Brians status. I just think he can. I also thought he'd impact the game by now before he was drafted. Bush didnt. :confusedshrug:

[-primetime-]

If I posted college sizes Tiki Barber would be smaller. 5'10 188 and Brian Westbrook 5'9 200 (still solid tho, not much difference).



I said Reggie Bush will end up like Tiki Barber. Didnt imply Reggie Bush right now is. Its a projection...that could be wrong in the end. When you look at Reggie Bush and ask yourself "At his best who do you think he could resemble?" and I come up with Tiki Barber and it even means more because both could go down a similar career path. Tiki was a 2nd round pick at the top of the 2nd round and had expecations (not like Bush). He didnt do much of anything early on as far as rushing. He was a 3rd down RB whose primary goal was pass catching and punt returning. Gradually he turned into a starting RB. Took him 6yrs to get stronger, bigger and get the carries needed to showcase his talent. He had a fumbling problem that was corrected within 2yrs and he became an elite RB in year 8. Then 3yrs he was a stud playing at his highest level before retiring.

I see Reggie Bush having a similar career path as far as gradually becoming the runner some think he can be. Brian Westbrook had the same type deal...too small, not strong enough, cant run between the tackles, lack of carries, not a featured RB, cant handle the load. 5th season he put that to rest when he was given a chance. Eagles still dont run him like they should but this year they have done a better job than they ever have in his career.

Thats why I used these two Rbs because not only do they have the same skills I see Reggie following the same road. He'll get more carries next season and if N.O can improve that OL to run block? We shall see what Bush can do in year 3. Offseason he should continue to get stronger and work out with Tomlinson like he did this past season. If he can get 240 carries next year I wanna see what he can bring. Not guranteeing a thing but when I project the bese case scenerio I see Tiki Barber in Reggie Bush.



Barry had an Pro Bowl LT...Barry didnt have a great OL but the OL was better than whats in N.O. But we are also talkin about one of if not the greatest runner of all time. Barry could have done the damn thing behind N.O line because he was great. Reggie will never be at that level. Gale Sayers comparison was simply due to the cut back ability without losing speed. If you look at Reggie run in college he made amazing cut backs, change of directions and moves remininscent of Gale. Thats why people used Gale.

Brian Westbrook is more likely to juke you then take you on and get yards. He only takes on defensive players when there is no choice. Same with Tiki...and once both got stronger? They were able to be more physical than they used to be. Stiff arming guys weighing 250 to the ground. Reggie isnt at that level strength wise...but again I'm just saying if he ever got to that point? He'd be Tiki Barber.

He could very well never reach Tiki or Brians status. I just think he can. I also thought he'd impact the game by now before he was drafted. Bush didnt. :confusedshrug:
ok...I can't really find anything I disagree with here

you are saying that at best Bush could end up being similiar to Tiki but that is just a projection and it could never happen...agreed :cheers:

It is just that you came off is though he WILL become that type of runner...and right now it is really hard to take a comment like that seriously.

You also started off by making the point that Peterson has a great o-line and Bush doesn't...If Peterson was on the Saints I don't think there is any question that he would be averaging no less than 5.0 ypc. If Bush played for the Vikes then...I still don't think he would be able to smash through the middle...he would at best average like 4.0 ypc.

After watching Bush look like a complete bust for 2 years and thinking to myself "geez they should just make him a WR because he can't run" I can't help but to give you the eye roll emoticon when you compare him to those guys...but you have just made it clear that it is just a projection that could never happen....and that is pretty much the point I was making

and it is still hard for me to picture Bush ever being as physical as those guys...but I guess if he is working hard at improving his power it could happen.

[GOBB]

ok...I can't really find anything I disagree with here

you are saying that at best Bush could end up being similiar to Tiki but that is just a projection and it could never happen...agreed :cheers:

Yeah...I mean I'm rooting for it to happen and I'm sure others are rooting against it. We'll see...if it doesnt happen I'll be the first to admit I was wrong.


You also started off by making the point that Peterson has a great o-line and Bush doesn't...If Peterson was on the Saints I don't think there is any question that he would be averaging no less than 5.0 ypc. If Bush played for the Vikes then...I still don't think he would be able to smash through the middle...he would at best average like 4.0 ypc.

Reggie Bush behind that OL in Minny? I gurantee you wouldnt see Mario Williams > Reggie Bush threads. I'm sorry but if Chester Taylor can rush for 1200yds and break off big runs behind that line (like he did last Sunday). Reggie Bush surely can. Its just a great OL especially the left side Mckinnie-Hutch-Birk...thats nasty. There is no way Reggie wouldnt be succesful running behind it.

I only used Peterson/OL whereas i could have used another RB/good to great OL. It was just to show that RBs to be successful/productive need a OL. Doesnt have to be great...but a good OL? It helps and if the RB that is rushing behind that line is good or great will determine the output in production. Peterson is a great back...he's giving you great production. Doesnt discredit him that he runs behind that OL but its a match made in heaven which is cool to see.

Bush would be able to put up 4.5ypc behind Minny OL. Its really that good and Bush can gain confidence and use his skills as a RB to make things happen. Agree to disagree is fine with me because we'll never know. But I got no problem if someone says Bush wont. Not a fanatic of Bush so I wont defend each and everything til my fingers lock up.



and it is still hard for me to picture Bush ever being as physical as those guys...but I guess if he is working hard at improving his power it could happen.

You're not alone...others think that and heck you and others could be right. Or we both could be wrong. Bush does more than you expect but less than what I expect. Should be interesting to see how his career unfolds.

[-primetime-]

You're not alone...others think that and heck you and others could be right. Or we both could be wrong. Bush does more than you expect but less than what I expect. Should be interesting to see how his career unfolds.
yep...I guess that sums it up here

It would be interesting to see what Bush could do on a team like Green Bay...would he be doing as well as Grant :confusedshrug:
Or New England even...that would be interesting. The Saints did have a good squad last year you know...and this year's Saints are not all THAT bad...so it isn't like he has been a one man army on that team or anything...

to be honest I think this year has made me lose alot of intrest in watching Bush. I just don't care as much about the guy and I am already starting to write him off as a complete bust...i hope that he ends up suprising me in the future, because the Saints deserve it.

[TMac&Luther]

Yeah...I mean I'm rooting for it to happen and I'm sure others are rooting against it. We'll see...if it doesnt happen I'll be the first to admit I was wrong.



Reggie Bush behind that OL in Minny? I gurantee you wouldnt see Mario Williams > Reggie Bush threads. I'm sorry but if Chester Taylor can rush for 1200yds and break off big runs behind that line (like he did last Sunday). Reggie Bush surely can. Its just a great OL especially the left side Mckinnie-Hutch-Birk...thats nasty. There is no way Reggie wouldnt be succesful running behind it.

I only used Peterson/OL whereas i could have used another RB/good to great OL. It was just to show that RBs to be successful/productive need a OL. Doesnt have to be great...but a good OL? It helps and if the RB that is rushing behind that line is good or great will determine the output in production. Peterson is a great back...he's giving you great production. Doesnt discredit him that he runs behind that OL but its a match made in heaven which is cool to see.

Bush would be able to put up 4.5ypc behind Minny OL. Its really that good and Bush can gain confidence and use his skills as a RB to make things happen. Agree to disagree is fine with me because we'll never know. But I got no problem if someone says Bush wont. Not a fanatic of Bush so I wont defend each and everything til my fingers lock up.

First of all.......Bush sucks ass, so lets just get that off our chests and out to the open right now.

Second, Chester Taylor was always a good back (even before Minny signed Steve Hutchinson).........before this season, he put up better #'s (YPC) before he even got to Minnesota........so there goes that silly argument right there..........Chester Taylor has ALWAYS been a good back (just took him a while to get noticed since he played behind Jamal Lewis) and if your going to throw out "if Taylor could get ....yards" it just shows how much knowledge you lack about his game

Third, please don't compare Bush to Tiki Barber, because Reggie Bush isn't anything like Tiki Barber.....the only reason why it took Tiki Barber so long to develop (more like get a chance) was because he was a late round draft pick and he didn't get handed his job (like Bush has) and he had to beat out a bust of a RB (like Bush is) named Ron Dayne.......Tiki actually ran with purpose.

Last, it doesn't matter what team Reggie Bush plays on..........he's a bust, for what he was supposed to be (which was Gale Sayers......all-time greatness) he's a bust and a failure. There are UDFAs (undrafted rookie free agents- for those that don't now) running backs that come into this league just about every year, that produce more than Reggie Bush.

It doesn't matter what line he runs behind, at the end of the day people are still going to say Mario is better............because MARIO IS BETTER........he's a half a sack, .5 sacks behind the league leader in his second year.

This is what a guy that actually produces looks like.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9dImtYvSUKc

Your Oline argument holds no weight, because even behind the crapiest of lines.......great backs STILL MAKE PLAYS and show fashes of GREATNESS...........do you realize in 342 career carries Reggie Bush doesn't have one single freaking career run over 22 yards!..........that goes BEYOND crappy Oline play. Reggie Bush was supposed to be EXPLOSIVE and he's been anything, but.........on a side note Barry Sanders (another guy Bush was compared to) ran behind some pretty crappy Olines on teams without great talent.......did it stop him from producing?

Houston is regarded for having the crappiest Oline in the entire league......Ron Dayne is regarded as a huge bust.....even slow Ron "no gain" Dayne has a longer run. Reggie Bush is too soft to be a running back.....he shies away from contact, earlier this year I saw him hit the deck in the open field before anybody touched him, because he thought he was going to be lit up.

Here's a article written by a Saints fan and what his own fans think about him now.
http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/12/04/is-new-orleans-starting-to-sour-on-reggie-bush/


Again, forget the box scores. Instead, pay attention to the myriad of dropped passes, most of which are screens or short dump-offs that anyone with his athletic ability (or mine, for that matter) should be able to catch. Or how about the fumbles – eight this year. Or how about the punt that bounced right off his face against Jacksonville, which the Saints were lucky enough to recover at a crucial point. Or what about the handful of times Bush has just slipped and fallen or, worse yet, purposely hit the ground early to avoid contact.

These are the signs not of a player who isn't good enough, but a player who doesn't care to be good enough. And it's doing damage to the chemistry that carried the Saints so far last year. In the last couple of weeks, the frustration with Bush from his teammates has been on display. Perhaps none have hassled Bush more lately than Brees, who has been caught on camera screaming angrily at Bush after unnecessary drops and demonstrating with his hands in a condescending fashion how to catch a football.

Here's a guy that lays down the truth and disspells all the damn myths and excuses that the freaking "hibitual excuse makers" keep making....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/reuben_frank/12/05/texans/index.html?eref=T1


OK, but Bush is electrifying catching the ball out of the backfield, right? Wrong.

Despite 73 receptions, he doesn't have a catch longer than 25 yards. He's seventh in the NFL in catches but 77th in receiving yards.

Incredibly, the Texans' Williams actually owns a longer play this year than Bush -- his 38-yard fumble recovery for a touchdown is longer than any run, catch or return that Bush has managed.

Reggie Bush isn't Tiki Barber........he isn't Brian Westbrook. On his best day, he's Eric Metcalf..........and I mean on his best day

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/MetcEr00.htm

[GOBB]

First of all.......Bush sucks ass, so lets just get that off our chests and out to the open right now.

Bitter Texan fan still upset at the treatment of Mario Williams and the franchise being called all types of names. Its pretty obvious how much of a homer you are here when it comes to the Rockets and Texans. You really dont mask it well and it clouds your arguments when you attempt to reply. Thats a fact something you're allergic too.


Second, Chester Taylor was always a good back (even before Minny signed Steve Hutchinson).........before this season, he put up better #'s (YPC) before he even got to Minnesota........so there goes that silly argument right there..........Chester Taylor has ALWAYS been a good back (just took him a while to get noticed since he played behind Jamal Lewis) and if your going to throw out "if Taylor could get ....yards" it just shows how much knowledge you lack about his game

Yeah always a good back...thats why Minny took Adrian Peterson. A instant impact, featured RB 1 year AFTER they signed Chester Taylor who only left Baltimore because he wanted a "starters" role. Now after 1 season he's splitting time with a rookie and will most likely lose his job and/or be in a limited role.

Chester was always a good RB but his career prior to arriving in Minnesota didnt stack up to Reggie Bush 2yrs production wise. And not only that Chesters best season his ypc was 4.0 1200yds. So obviously before he signed with Minny you SAW something that said "HE is a good RB" because it wasnt HIS PRODUCTION. It was the skills he displayed when given the chance. I wonder what that was. Enlighten us. Because your answer is you evaluating a RB and breaking down thier style whereas I did the same for Reggie Bush. Neither RB has/had the stats (we're not including Chester last season, Chester prior)...so I'm curious to what you type out your ass so i can shut you down. Make it good.


Third, please don't compare Bush to Tiki Barber, because Reggie Bush isn't anything like Tiki Barber.....the only reason why it took Tiki Barber so long to develop (more like get a chance) was because he was a late round draft pick and he didn't get handed his job (like Bush has) and he had to beat out a bust of a RB (like Bush is) named Ron Dayne.......Tiki actually ran with purpose.

Tiki Barber was the 6th pick in the 2nd round. So you're wrong about him being a "late round pick".

Reggie Bush didnt get "handed" a job. He split carries with Deuce MccAlister dumbass and he only was the featured RB this season due to Duece going down for the season. You knew this right? Tell me you did.

Tiki Barber had no competition in front of him. Charles Way? Tyrone Wheatley? :oldlol:

Ron Dayne came LATER in Tiki's NFL career bozo. So thats how much you are misinformed. Tiki Barber didnt display what NYG hoped when they drafted him 2nd round which is why they picked up free agent Gary Brown. Tiki 3rd year there were a platoon of RBs and Tiki remained the pass recieving RB. He had ALL THE OPPURTUNITIES to be the featured RB and failed. He wasnt living up to expectations 3yrs in ad the 6th pick in the NFL DRAFT. Ron Dayne came in Tiki's 4th year and both split carries much like Reggie Bush/Duece MccAlister does. Tiki was the featured RB when Ron Dayne was drafted...not the other way around. Tiki didnt have to beat out NO ONE from that point on. The Giants wanted to go with a duel RB...one with speed and the other with power. THUNDER AND LIGHTNING was the nickname. In 2000 when Tiki was named the starter and Ron Dayne was drafted? Tiki never had to beat out any RB. Ever.

You've been schooled in the career of Tiki Barber the 6th pick in the 2nd round projected to be the NYG starting RB but started off slow because he was small, wasnt as strong to be the featured RB and while many were saying he didnt live up to expecations (valid) Tiki started his career as a punt returner/pass catcher until he got bigger and won the starting job. And even then some fans werent sold on him being an every down RB which he had to disprove.


Last, it doesn't matter what team Reggie Bush plays on..........he's a bust, for what he was supposed to be (which was Gale Sayers......all-time greatness) he's a bust and a failure. There are UDFAs (undrafted rookie free agents- for those that don't now) running backs that come into this league just about every year, that produce more than Reggie Bush.

After 2yrs....ok. :rolleyes:


It doesn't matter what line he runs behind, at the end of the day people are still going to say Mario is better............because MARIO IS BETTER........he's a half a sack, .5 sacks behind the league leader in his second year.

No they're not...but you think what you want homer. :applause:

Mario, Vince, Reggie? You can make an argument for all 3. Neither player has seperated themselves from one another. All Mario is doing is showing he wasnt that BAD of a pick as many made it out to be. But he isnt the best DE in the game, he isnt top 3, he isnt a DPOY candidate, MVP, instant impact defensive player. He isnt a better version of Julius Peppers...so one can throw out "bust!" too based on what we thought he should have been. *yawn*



I'll shyt on the rest of your post later...I gotta make a quick run.

[GOBB]

Your Oline argument holds no weight, because even behind the crapiest of lines.......great backs STILL MAKE PLAYS and show fashes of GREATNESS...........do you realize in 342 career carries Reggie Bush doesn't have one single freaking career run over 22 yards!..........that goes BEYOND crappy Oline play. Reggie Bush was supposed to be EXPLOSIVE and he's been anything, but.........on a side note Barry Sanders (another guy Bush was compared to) ran behind some pretty crappy Olines on teams without great talent.......did it stop him from producing?

Run down a list of great backs who made plays, showed flashes of greatness behind BAD OL's. I challenge you to do it...grab your pro-footballreference.com site and do your homework. Let me know what you bring back.

Barry Sanders didnt run behind bad OLs. You're misinformed and WRONG. He had Pro Bowlers on his OL. Barry has been on more teams with talent than vice versa.

*waits for this kid to do what i asked in bold*

[TMac&Luther]

Run down a list of great backs who made plays, showed flashes of greatness behind BAD OL's. I challenge you to do it...grab your pro-footballreference.com site and do your homework. Let me know what you bring back.

Barry Sanders didnt run behind bad OLs. You're misinformed and WRONG. He had Pro Bowlers on his OL. Barry has been on more teams with talent than vice versa.

*waits for this kid to do what i asked in bold*

Barry, made pro-bowlers out of his line............he would've succeded on any line and I know this for a fact.......my Dad grew up in Michigan and is a die hard Lions fan who hates Emmitt Smith, because he knows damn well if Barry ran behind the line Emmitt had Barry would EASILY be the NFL rushing all-time leading rusher.

As far as backs that ran behind crappy lines...........go look what Domninick Davis did for Houston before he blew out his knee.

Go look at what backs like Curtis Martin did throughout his entire career......(he didn't have a freaking all-pro line throughout his entire career)

Go look at what Duece McCallister did with the same Fing line that Bush had last year.

Your excuses are worn out and tiresome, there are 5 RBs on the Saints roster, out of the 4 that have carries Bush has the lowest YPC average.

I also love the fact how you can't explain how in 342 career carries Bush doesn't have one single freaking run over 22 yards..........he was supposed to be the most explosive back to come out in a decade.

[raid09]

I don't think Barry Sanders should be brought up...

Obviously there will be an exception or two. Obviously there are standards that wouldn't apply to possibly the GOAT at his position. Nobody is hyping up Bush that much.

[GOBB]

Barry, made pro-bowlers out of his line............he would've succeded on any line and I know this for a fact.......my Dad grew up in Michigan and is a die hard Lions fan who hates Emmitt Smith, because he knows damn well if Barry ran behind the line Emmitt had Barry would EASILY be the NFL rushing all-time leading rusher.

1. You're wrong again...Lomas Brown and Kevin Gloer would have been Pro Bowlers anywhere. They were just good players.

2. Who is disputing Barry Sanders greatness? He probably very well could produce behind a bad OL. He's a certified top 10 RB of all time, top 3 in some peoples books and has an argument for best RB of all time. I dont see why you continue to keep talkin up Barry Sanders.

3. Again RBS benefit from OL...they just do. You'll struggle to find great backs who could still perform without an OL. You'll struggle to find ANY RB saying they could have done what they did without an OL. Same thing with QBs who benefit from thier OL protecting them. Tom Brady does not have the remarkable season he is having if his OL was bad or average at best. The fact that unit is playing GREAT gives Tom Brady a chance to utlize his great talents and thus u see amazing results. My whole point behind the OL is that Reggie Bush will not excel without one because for the most part RBs depend on thier OL blocking. Larry Johnson can vouch for this...once his OL took a hit you saw his production decrease. Larry Johnson is a great RB, top 5...but even he needs guys opening holes that he can get thru and do his thing. He's not stiff arming multiple defensive players to the turf as 2-3 are in the backfield after he gets the handoff. Video game? Sure, real life? Get a clue kid



As far as backs that ran behind crappy lines...........go look what Domninick Davis did for Houston before he blew out his knee.

D.Davis didnt run behind a bad run blocking OL. That OL was bad in terms of pass protecting. There is a difference. Sorry you're too clueless to understand.


Go look at what backs like Curtis Martin did throughout his entire career......(he didn't have a freaking all-pro line throughout his entire career)

NE-Bruce Armstrong, Williams Roberts
NYJ-Kevin Mawae, Jumbo Elliot, Jason Fabini, Kareem McKenzie, Pete Kendall

Most RBs dont have all pro lines...but on the OL/unit there are pro bowl caliber players. Curtis Martin has always been behind a solid run blocking OL. Always.


Go look at what Duece McCallister did with the same Fing line that Bush had last year.

They're doing a bad job as a unit this season.


Your excuses are worn out and tiresome, there are 5 RBs on the Saints roster, out of the 4 that have carries Bush has the lowest YPC average.

I'll expose how weak that argument is...

Aaron Stecker 79 300 3.8ypc
Pierre Thomas 25 109 4.4ypc
D.Mcalister 24 92 3.8ypc
Reggie Bush 157 581 3.7ypc

:oldlol: The bold just destroys your WEAK argument. Shame your dad never BEAT you for displaying such horrible football knowledge.


I also love the fact how you can't explain how in 342 career carries Bush doesn't have one single freaking run over 22 yards..........he was supposed to be the most explosive back to come out in a decade.

28gms played and 312 total carries he avg 11 carries per game.

You're stuck on the hype still...Bush hasnt lived up to the hype. So you're entire argument is in the toilet like my recent turd I just dropped. You're stuck on the fact of what Bush should be doing via what the hype said...and not dealing with reality.

Your whole argument will now revolve around his longest run thus far plus the fact he was said to be "Great" so therefore it doesnt matter how good his OL is...he should be making plays and perfoming like the hype said. :oldlol:


You dont know football at all. I've schooled all your arguments. Are you're tired of getting embarrased? :confusedshrug:

[GOBB]

I don't think Barry Sanders should be brought up...

Obviously there will be an exception or two. Obviously there are standards that wouldn't apply to possibly the GOAT at his position. Nobody is hyping up Bush that much.

Exactly...not sure why Barry is even being argued here.

[TMac&Luther]

D.Davis didnt run behind a bad run blocking OL. That OL was bad in terms of pass protecting. There is a difference. Sorry you're too clueless to understand.

Excuse me buddy, but I believe I know how good our damn line was at what they did.........D. Davis ran behind a average line at best.........and I mean at the very best.

WTF do you keep side stepping the fact that Reggie Bush has never had a run over 22 yards :oldlol: .........hmm, I don't know, because maybe it blows your entire argument......because it proves Reggie's biggest problem isn't the Oline, it's the fact he lacks the vision everybody raved about in college and A.) he can't run between the tackles B.) dances too much so whatever holes he does have close up, and C.) runs like a big giant *****.

The fact that you won't even mention his lack of a big run makes you look like a ****ing tard......that shows Reggie can't even get past the front seven......what the hell do you expect his offensive line to run twenty yards down the f*cking field and block for him?.........give me a f*cking break :roll: His team doesn't even let him return punts anymore.

and second.........just because I think Mario has seperated himself from Vince (although there's still hope for Young.....Bush is a bust however) and Bush doesn't make me a Homer.............it isn't "homerism" when it's the truth.

Please explain or attempt to, explain to me how Mairo Williams isn't one of the top DE's in the league....(like you already said he wasn't)

You can't.........but I'll love to see you try.....you'll just further make a fool out of yourself.....you say you've "shyted" on all my arguments, the only thing I was wrong about was Tiki.....you've been wrong on just about everything you've typed with your lame ass excuses for a poor ass running back who your giving a free ride to. Reggie Bush is tied 136th in the league in YPC..........I guess all those other players just run behind better lines huh?

Atleast I don't have to make up fairy tales about Mario, but then again I guess that just makes me a homer, right.........at the end of the day when you can't beat somebody in a argument just call them a homer.....huh......makes like so much easier doesn't it?

[TMac&Luther]

Nobody is hyping up Bush that much.

On his draft day.........he was hyped up that much. I even read one aticle that said Houston passed up a sure fire HOFer.

[GOBB]

Excuse me buddy, but I believe I know how good our damn line was at what they did.........D. Davis ran behind a average line at best.........and I mean at the very best.

Average does not equal bad. Yuo dont follow instructions well. All you do is exagerrate things in your post...then when called out on it fold. I asked you to do what i typed in bold. You've failed to provide a list. Wanna know why?


WTF do you keep side stepping the fact that Reggie Bush has never had a run over 22 yards :oldlol: .........hmm, I don't know, because maybe it blows your entire argument......because it proves Reggie's biggest problem isn't the Oline, it's the fact he lacks the vision everybody raved about in college and A.) he can't run between the tackles B.) dances too much so whatever holes he does have close up, and C.) runs like a big giant *****.

Side stepping what? Wtf does Bush not having a run over 22yds signify? You act like if he did...then you WOULDNT be having this argument. Bush could have a TD run for 99yds. You still would type everything you have in here minus telling me his longest run thus far. So what are you saying? That you cant defend your position so you'll repeat something irrelevant? :oldlol: Idiot.


The fact that you won't even mention his lack of a big run makes you look like a ****ing tard.

Who cares about his biggest run. You're doing a fine job making yourself look like a retard as i continuously show you up. Everyone who reads this thread will agree to that. Everyone.


and second.........just because I think Mario has seperated himself from Vince (although there's still hope for Young.....Bush is a bust however) and Bush doesn't make me a Homer.............it isn't "homerism" when it's the truth.

Mario didnt seperate himself from them
Mario isnt an impact DE/defensive player
Mario isnt a DPOY/MVP

You keep talkin bout Bush's hype...what about "Super" Mario? Yeah you sure keep your trap shut on that. You hit the juke button how many times now?


Please explain or attempt to, explain to me how Mairo Williams isn't one of the top DE's in the league....(like you already said he wasn't)

Tell me how he is.


You can't.........but I'll love to see you try.....you'll just further make a fool out of yourself.....you say you've "shyted" on all my arguments, the only thing I was wrong about was Tiki.....you've been wrong on just about everything you've typed with your lame ass excuses for a poor ass running back who your giving a free ride to. Reggie Bush is tied 136th in the league in YPC..........I guess all those other players just run behind better lines huh?

You've countered nothing I typed. :oldlol: You're just an emotional wreck now. Go powder.


Atleast I don't have to make up fairy tales about Mario, but then again I guess that just makes me a homer, right.........at the end of the day when you can't beat somebody in a argument just call them a homer.....huh......makes like so much easier doesn't it?

I called you a home before i even presented my argument. You dont pay attention much...just ramble. :confusedshrug:

[GOBB]

Recap on all the stuff you posted that was wrong and denied.


First of all.......Bush sucks ass, so lets just get that off our chests and out to the open right now.

Wrong.


Second, Chester Taylor was always a good back (even before Minny signed Steve Hutchinson).........before this season, he put up better #'s (YPC) before he even got to Minnesota

Wrong


........so there goes that silly argument right there..........Chester Taylor has ALWAYS been a good back (just took him a while to get noticed since he played behind Jamal Lewis) and if your going to throw out "if Taylor could get ....yards" it just shows how much knowledge you lack about his game

Chester is so good they drafted Adrian Peterson. :oldlol:

Dont confuse this with saying Chester "sucks ass" like you did with Bush. Just proving a point that is Chester is good and always been good why did Minnesota take Adrian Peterson. You've yet to answer...why draft a RB that after 1yr in Minny you're splitting carries with and he will end up being the featured RB most likely next season thus you're now a backup.



Third, please don't compare Bush to Tiki Barber, because Reggie Bush isn't anything like Tiki Barber.....the only reason why it took Tiki Barber so long to develop (more like get a chance) was because he was a late round draft pick and he didn't get handed his job (like Bush has) and he had to beat out a bust of a RB (like Bush is) named Ron Dayne.......Tiki actually ran with purpose.

Wrong about Tiki
Wrong about Tiki and Bush not having the same skills



Last, it doesn't matter what team Reggie Bush plays on..........he's a bust, for what he was supposed to be (which was Gale Sayers......all-time greatness) he's a bust and a failure. There are UDFAs (undrafted rookie free agents- for those that don't now) running backs that come into this league just about every year, that produce more than Reggie Bush.

Like who?


Your Oline argument holds no weight, because even behind the crapiest of lines.......great backs STILL MAKE PLAYS and show fashes of GREATNESS

Like who?


on a side note Barry Sanders (another guy Bush was compared to) ran behind some pretty crappy Olines on teams without great talent.......did it stop him from producing?

Wrong (about Barry running behind crappy OLs)


As far as backs that ran behind crappy lines...........go look what Domninick Davis did for Houston before he blew out his knee.

Wrong...Houston OL wasnt crappy run blocking


Go look at what backs like Curtis Martin did throughout his entire career......(he didn't have a freaking all-pro line throughout his entire career)

Wrong...Curtis has pro bowlers and pro bowl caliber OL in NE and NYJ


Go look at what Duece McCallister did with the same Fing line that Bush had last year.

244 1,057yds 4.3ypc nothing great

Bush was on pace for 770yds 209 carries

The difference? 287yds 35 carries



Your excuses are worn out and tiresome, there are 5 RBs on the Saints roster, out of the 4 that have carries Bush has the lowest YPC average.

Argument is weak and irrelevant

Aaron Stecker 79 300 3.8ypc
Pierre Thomas 25 109 4.4ypc
D.Mcalister 24 92 3.8ypc
Reggie Bush 157 581 3.7ypc

:oldlol:




:no: Gotta come harder than this. And i was right when i said ur argument would now revolve around Bush's longest run and how his hype said he would do better no matter the OL. Look at you...hell bent on his "hype" as a rookie before being drafted AND his longest run in the NFL. Thats what you're down to. Damn I ruined you. Feels good. :pimp:

[TMac&Luther]

I've already answered and proved my point on 90% of the crap you keep saying is wrong....your just a moron who says everything that you don't agree with is wrong.......all you do is make excuses for a poor running back, it really is sad.

I'll tell you what, the day Reggie Bush becomes a legit star (atleast top two in his own damn conference) in this league and not just a gimmick player I'll make a infinite avatar change of your choice........if he doesn't by the end of next year (three years is PLENTY of time for a "star" running back to florish....you'll have to do the same)

Buck up and put your money where your mouth is, until then.........STFU! and stop making lame-o excuses for a piss ant back that can't even break a 25 yarder.....which was the whole reason why he was drafted...........the guy is Eric Metcalf reincarnated.....and that's becoming a insult to Eric Metcalf.

P.S.

I'm still waiting for your argument on how Mario is one of the best at his position in the entire NFL (you know since you just LOVE to point out when people are wrong. :rolleyes: )

and for the 4th or 5th f*cking time........explain why Reggie BusT doesn't have a career run over 22 yards.

[GOBB]

I've already answered and proved my point on 90% of the crap you keep saying is wrong....your just a moron who says everything that you don't agree with is wrong.......all you do is make excuses for a poor running back, it really is sad.

You didnt answer none of what i said u were WRONG on. You blatant liar.


I'll tell you what, the day Reggie Bush becomes a legit star (atleast top two in his own damn conference) in this league and not just a gimmick player I'll make a infinite avatar change of your choice........if he doesn't by the end of next year (three years is PLENTY of time for a "star" running back to florish....you'll have to do the same)

Reggie Bush has all the time in the world. Tiki Barber didnt become an elite RB until 8yrs later. It took him 6yrs to become a featured, every down RB. Brian Westbrook didnt become an every down featured RB until 5yrs. This season he has emerged as a RB that can be argued top 5. Yet Reggie Bush has to do it tomorrow. :oldlol:

Goes back to my point...you are still hung up on his "hype". Its passed, many have already said he isnt living up to expectations. Why do you keep harboring on his hype that has died down? Thats the basis of your argument. No one in heree is saying he will live up to his hype. Larry Johnson looked like a bust after 2 full seasons...Then all of a sudden he busts loose and the next 2yrs he's an elite RB. You would have typed the same crap about LJ most likely.


Buck up and put your money where your mouth is, until then.........STFU! and stop making lame-o excuses for a piss ant back that can't even break a 25 yarder.....which was the whole reason why he was drafted...........the guy is Eric Metcalf reincarnated.....and that's becoming a insult to Eric Metcalf.

Just tell me this...if and when he breaks a run for more than 25yds. What are you gonna say then? Let me guess...the SAME CRAP except you wont mention the long run he broke. :rolleyes:

You're hung up over his hype
You're hung up over his longest run
You are ignorant to RBs depending on OL

3 things i said your argument will forever revolve around as i killed your other points. This is what you're left with...repeating yourself. Your last 3 replies said the same thing. At what point do you change up and perhaps DEFEND the things you are WRONG ON? I'm guessing never because you know you cant. :oldlol: So you're left with saying the same things over and over and over.

The funny part is Larry Johnson is having a down year because of his OL....yet you cant see the coorelation with RB to OL. Comedy.


P.S.

I'm still waiting for your argument on how Mario is one of the best at his position in the entire NFL (you know since you just LOVE to point out when people are wrong. :rolleyes: )

I didnt say he was...i said he wasnt the best nor top 5 at his position. I said he wasnt an impact defensive player. He wasnt a DPOY candidate. Scratch that a strong candidate because anyone who has a good season is open to be a candidate.

How is Mario any more better than Trent Cole? :confusedshrug:

Only argument you or anyone has is "upside".

[TMac&Luther]

I didnt say he was...i said he wasnt the best nor top 5 at his position. I said he wasnt an impact defensive player. He wasnt a DPOY candidate. Scratch that a strong candidate because anyone who has a good season is open to be a candidate.

How is Mario any more better than Trent Cole? :confusedshrug:

Only argument you or anyone has is "upside".

I'm just going to scratch the whole part where you say I'm "wrong" again......we've been through that tired dance.......if you can't see the importance of a player who was drafted and projected to be possibly the most explosive player in the NFL not gaining a run over 22 yards so far in his career.......that's your problem not mine

As far as Mario Williams......okay.......explain why he's not top 5 at his position, make that argument.

and since when the hell does a freaking player have to be a MVP candidate or a DPOY candidate to be eligible for the #1 ovrl. pick..........do you know how many HOFers have never won MVPs or DPOY awards..........MANY.

That's just another weak ass BS argument you've tossed up against the wall.

[raid09]

On his draft day.........he was hyped up that much. I even read one aticle that said Houston passed up a sure fire HOFer.

GOBB, judging by this answer - I think we've found the heart of the problem.

TMac&Luther is still hung up on how much Mario and the Texans were criticized for picking him #1. He's so hung up on it that he gets emotional whenever anyone says anything about Reggie Bush.

TMac, do you realize that nobody cares about the hype put on Bush anymore? Nobody thinks Bush will be a HOF RB, but to label him as a BUST, and say he doesn't have the potential to be a GOOD RB in 5 years is just ignorant.

[TMac&Luther]

he doesn't have the potential to be a GOOD RB in 5 years is just ignorant.

No it's ignorant to wait another 5 years for him to be a good back.

The shelf life on NFL RBs are short..........Backs that are taken that high are expected to be VERY GOOD backs straight out of the gate.........in 5 years Bush is going to be on the downside of his career and most likely a backup.

[GOBB]

I'm just going to scratch the whole part where you say I'm "wrong" again......we've been through that tired dance.......if you can't see the importance of a player who was drafted and projected to be possibly the most explosive player in the NFL not gaining a run over 22 yards so far in his career.......that's your problem not mine

Because I've already stated Reggie Bush didnt live up to the hype last season or this season. He didnt live up to the hype that he would be an instant impact performer. Thats quite obvious 2yrs in as he sits out for the rest of the season injured. Why you continue to REPEAT YOURSELF IDIOT is anyones guess.

You wont scratch the WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG part of my posts up above because you dont wanna admit to it. :oldlol: You know, I know, the board who has entered this topic and READ knows you were proven wrong. Period.

And again if Bush next season breaks a 75yd run...does your stance change any? No it doesnt...I'm gonna pull your move and repeat myself...

IF REGGIE BUSH BUSTS A RUN LONGER THAN 25YDS...DOES YOUR STANCE CHANGE?

You dodge that question...but we (people who have read this argument) all know the ANSWER. So why you keep mentioning it? Anyones guess...oh i know you keep mentioning it because before he was drafted he was said to be the next Gale Sayers, bigtime RB :rolleyes:

*looks around for anyone who still says that*

That ended at the end of last season. Its damn near 2 complete seasons and you're stuck in the past. Thats your entire argument. F*ck outta here clown.



As far as Mario Williams......okay.......explain why he's not top 5 at his position, make that argument.

Freeney, Peppers, Merriman/Suggs (they basically are DEs but if you dont count them so be it), Schobel (underrated if he plays for a winner he get more props), Kampman, J.Taylor, M.Strahan, R.Seymour.

Real simple there.

Mario is having a good season. Kudos...keyword good season. If he improves his run defense, if teams start doubling, focusing thier offense to contain/stop him and if the guy on the other side of Mario excels because he has 1 on 1 action thanks to Mario's attention demand...he'll get more props and I'll place him up there with the primere pass rushers in the NFL. Mario can get there...I'm not limiting him at all unlike you how you limit Reggie Bush from ever being a good RB in the NFL. Mario has the tools so if and when he puts it all together he can be regarded as a top DE in the game, DPOY candidate, impact defensive player.

I'm no stubborn dipshyt like you are. I dont limit blatant talented players. But right now how is Mario any more better than Trent Cole? 2nd time I'm asking you this kid. You have trouble ANSWERING.


and since when the hell does a freaking player have to be a MVP candidate or a DPOY candidate to be eligible for the #1 ovrl. pick..........do you know how many HOFers have never won MVPs or DPOY awards..........MANY.

#1 overall picks usually are reserved for impact performers. Why you think Texans got bashed for passing up Reggie Bush? Bush was supposed to be an instant impact performer. You dont draft good players, you draft what you perceive to be GREAT players at #1. I never said he had to win it I said he had to be a STRONG CANDIDATE, be considered an IMPACT DEFENSIVE PLAYER. Reading and comprehension is NOT your strongsuit.




GOBB, judging by this answer - I think we've found the heart of the problem.

TMac&Luther is still hung up on how much Mario and the Texans were criticized for picking him #1. He's so hung up on it that he gets emotional whenever anyone says anything about Reggie Bush.

TMac, do you realize that nobody cares about the hype put on Bush anymore? Nobody thinks Bush will be a HOF RB, but to label him as a BUST, and say he doesn't have the potential to be a GOOD RB in 5 years is just ignorant.

Yup, Texan fan still ass hurt his franchise got criticized heavily. So now he is getting his "payback" :oldlol: Too bad he's the only one stuck on Bush hype that has since fizzled.

And it doesnt change the fact Texans should have traded down and they would have landed Mario Williams anyway. Trade down = stockpile more picks which in turn you can add more players of talent and look back on the deal with a smile or frown. With the hype Bush, Young recieved they could have took advantage of it and added 2 more picks. 3rd rounder that year and a 2nd rounder the following. Who knows how much a team would have given up. But they would have gotten something.

SD Chargers dealt the top pick twice and benefitted. Houston could have had their cake and would be eating it too. Who knows...but I'm not gonna harp on it like he does Reggie Bush's hype. :oldlol:

[GOBB]

No it's ignorant to wait another 5 years for him to be a good back.

The shelf life on NFL RBs are short..........Backs that are taken that high are expected to be VERY GOOD backs straight out of the gate.........in 5 years Bush is going to be on the downside of his career and most likely a backup.

I love how you use the word ignorant when this post is ignorant.

Brian Westbrook took 5yrs before he rushed OVER 1,000yds.
Tiki Barber took 6yrs before he rushed over 1,000yds. Took 8yrs to be considered ELITE.

The "good RB" you mentioned in Chester Taylor took 5yrs to rush over 1,000yds.

Thomas Jones 7th overall pick took 6yrs to rush for over 1,000yds


But Reggie Bush in 5yrs will be on the DOWNSIDE when all these backs after 5yrs went on the UP. :roll:

[raid09]

I love how you use the word ignorant when this post is ignorant.

Brian Westbrook took 5yrs before he rushed OVER 1,000yds.
Tiki Barber took 6yrs before he rushed over 1,000yds. Took 8yrs to be considered ELITE.

The "good RB" you mentioned in Chester Taylor took 5yrs to rush over 1,000yds.

Thomas Jones 7th overall pick took 6yrs to rush for over 1,000yds


But Reggie Bush in 5yrs will be on the DOWNSIDE when all these backs after 5yrs went on the UP. :roll:

I think we're also missing someone named LT, who just had a record breaking season in his 6th year.

Most backs are passed thei prime in their 6th year TMac? Come on. GOBB continues to **** all over you. :oldlol:

[Doomsday Dallas]

I love how you use the word ignorant when this post is ignorant.

Brian Westbrook took 5yrs before he rushed OVER 1,000yds.
Tiki Barber took 6yrs before he rushed over 1,000yds. Took 8yrs to be considered ELITE.

The "good RB" you mentioned in Chester Taylor took 5yrs to rush over 1,000yds.

Thomas Jones 7th overall pick took 6yrs to rush for over 1,000yds


But Reggie Bush in 5yrs will be on the DOWNSIDE when all these backs after 5yrs went on the UP. :roll:

Reggie Bush will only be good when he has a Marion Barber with him.

He can not Bull-doze down the field.






And good point earlier... RB's do have a shelf life now in todays NFL.

[GOBB]

I think we're also missing someone named LT, who just had a record breaking season in his 6th year.

Most backs are passed there prime in there 6th year TMac? Come on. GOBB continues to **** all over you. :oldlol:

:oldlol:

[J.O.R.D.A.N.-#45]

:oldlol:

Reggie Bush will have some work to do.

I said he would be about on the same level as a Westbrook

if he is used the right way.

[raid09]

Reggie Bush will have some work to do.

I said he would be about on the same level as a Westbrook

if he is used the right way.

No one is saying he doesn't have work to do.

Of course he isn't living up to the hype he had on draft day and most likely never will, but to label him as a bust? He can still be a good RB, and likely will be.

[GOBB]

No one is saying he doesn't have work to do.

Of course he isn't living up to the hype he had on draft day and most likely never will, but to label him as a bust? He can still be a good RB, and likely will be.

Exactly! Someone gets it. :bowdown:

[-primetime-]

Chester is so good they drafted Adrian Peterson. :oldlol:

Dont confuse this with saying Chester "sucks ass" like you did with Bush. Just proving a point that is Chester is good and always been good why did Minnesota take Adrian Peterson. You've yet to answer...why draft a RB that after 1yr in Minny you're splitting carries with and he will end up being the featured RB most likely next season thus you're now a backup.

Minnesota did not draft Peterson because Chester Taylor is no good...

Chester was is a good back and had a solid year last season.

The reason the Vikes drafted Peterson is because Peterson fell into thier lap. They simply couldn't pass up the player who was considered to be the second best player in the draft at the time after Calvin Johnson. The Vikes were put into a situation that they couldn't pass up...that is all.

[raid09]

and you...

reeeaallly need to get off of GOBB's nuts already...all you do is back up his comments with crap like "your a joke just shut up!"....what are you his girlfreind?

there is absolutly NO reason to believe that Bush will go on to be a huge success at this point in time...if you think he will be great because he was in college then you need to think again...

he "could be"....but so "could any player in thier 2nd year right now...so that is a silly arguement.



homer or not...Tmac is RIGHT (for the most part)

Mario is out there proving himself right now....Bush is not

No, TMac is wrong. Nobody is saying Bush will probably be a great player. TMac is saying he IS ALREADY a bust.

TMac is the only one explicitly labeling Bush as a bust or a success. We are only saying he has a chance and the potential to a decent-good RB, which is not a stretch.

[ALBballer]

Reggie Bush, thus far, has been a bust, no way around it. He was supposed to be a once in a lifetime RB, but he's yet to have a 100 yard rushing game this year and the only thing he's excelled at this far in his career is being a change of pace back, catching the ball out of the backfield and special teams.

Basically he was supposed to be a Barry Sanders and Marshall Faulk, and thus far he's playing like Amp Lee.

Hopefully he becomes a Charlie Garner at worst.

[statman32]

Why did you delete your post primetime? Did you look back and realize that you were talking out your ass again?

I love how I get labeled a nut hugger if I agree with anything Gobb says. I agree with tons of other people but I've never seen you telling me I'm on there nuts.

Oh yah.. That's because youre just regirgitating what other trolls have said about me in the past. Come up with your own stuff please.

I posted the same thing before this whole argument between them started and I decided to post again because Tmac&luther really thought what he was saying made sense.

Bush has struggled at times but I still have faith in his ability after watching him in college and after seeing glimpses of him becoming a legit running back in the Nfl. He's rushed the ball 20 or more times twice in his career and has rushed for a combined 200+ yards in those two games.

Of course he has his flaws and has looked awful at times but **** happens. He still has plenty of time to improve. I'm sure his confidence took a big hit when he came into the league and once he gets that confidence back and learns to run the ball inside better hell be a top 5 back in this league. If you wanna call him a bust because he won't live up to the expectations that were layed upon him when he got to the NFL that's fine.. But don't call him trash and say hes gonna amount to nothing in this league. He has the tools to become a very good all around back. It just takes time

[SCREWstonRockets]

Remember how the media and everyone in the world was laughing at the Texans for selecting Mario Williams?

http://www.nflplayers.com/corpImages/mariowilliams2_thumb.jpghttp://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/Williams.jpghttp://espn.go.com/photo/2006/1113/nfl_w_williams2_275.jpg


http://espn.go.com/photo/2006/1113/nfl_w_bush_275.jpg

[GOBB]

Minnesota did not draft Peterson because Chester Taylor is no good...

Chester was is a good back and had a solid year last season.

The reason the Vikes drafted Peterson is because Peterson fell into thier lap. They simply couldn't pass up the player who was considered to be the second best player in the draft at the time after Calvin Johnson. The Vikes were put into a situation that they couldn't pass up...that is all.

Adrian Peterson was drafted because Chester Taylor is not a game breaking RB. A Game change, explosive offensive skill player. He was signed because he was the best thing available and Minny just added the best OG in the game. But heading into the draft Minny was in search of game breaking skill players at WR or RB. They lucked up and got Peterson. I never said Chester wasnt good but my point was Tmac claimed he was ALWAYS good. How could one claim such a thing when prior to his arrival in Minny he was a backup? And the production he had wasnt nothing compared to Reggie Bush's 2yrs which in his mind screams "Bush sucks!"? :confusedshrug:

I'm trying figure out how a backup for 5yrs with limited production is GREATER than a Reggie Bush 2yrs. So my point was if you felt Chester was a good RB that just needed an oppurtunity to showcase his talent then 1. You recognized his talent somehow and 2. You acknowledge some RBs need the right situations to excel and be productive. If 1 & 2 are true then why doesnt that apply to Reggie and only Chester? This all stemmed from me saying Reggie Bush would be productive behind Minnys OL because Chester Taylor was rushing for 1200yds 4.0ypc and he said no. Its like come on...you're overrating Chester in order to shyt on Bush some more.

[GOBB]

Remember how the media and everyone in the world was laughing at the Texans for selecting Mario Williams?

Its not as funny as it was back then...but the Texans still should have traded down regardless. No one was gonna steal Mario if they traded down. Reggie/Vince were the top sought out players. Texans just threw away an oppurtunity to add more picks to thier stable which could have ended up benefitting the team. Most teams who trade out of #1 do.

[dgbigballer9329]

This was a long thread so I didn't read all of it. But here's my general thoughts on Reggie:

You can't be a bust after two years. Do I think he will be a bust? Depends. Would I be shocked if he became an ELITE running back? Yes. Do I think he can become a good player? Yes. But the guy who I would say Reggie Bush's best career choice would follow is Eric Metcalf rather than Brian Westbrook, who I thought he might follow coming into the NFL. I think Bush would be better served as predominantly a pass receiver, maybe even switched to a slot-type wideout to maximize his ability to make plays in space. I could be wrong, but unlike many other positions, it is not invalid to form an opinion on RB's after two years.

Alot of these arguments are based on stats, New Orleans offensive line, and intangibles like home-run ability. I'm going to tell you what I think more from watching him play than stats -- that tells me why I don't think he is suited to be a Westbrook-type running back.





I see a guy who is soft. And that surprises me because I thought he was underrated running between the tackles in college. I see him ducking into his line and getting down like it's Vietnam. Sometimes the hole is there, sometimes it's not. He does not hit the hole hard, with purpose. He actually does not break to the outside that much, but when he does he overruns blockers. Note this is a huge difference between him and Westbrook -- who were often compared. Westbrook is a tremendously patient runner who will set up blockers and hit the hole 100 mph at the exact right instant. If there's one thing Bush does not do that's most glaring, it's that. Not patient as a runner, and that's not something that is learned over time. He also puts the ball on the earth too much. That can and has been cured for other runners, but it's another example of my belief -- he simply does not respond well to contact. You can bring up cases of other runners that were of similar size (Bush is small but there have been successful backs smaller). Westbrook, Tiki Barber, who were originially 3rd down backs. But watch them run. They run hard, they don't avoid contact, and they break tackles despite their size. And the time it takes for RB's to hit their prime varies. Many do it early on, some do it later in their career. That's not a valid argument either way, because there are too many counter-examples no matter which side you're on

Now this is exactly what happened to Eric Metcalf of Cleveland/Atlanta, who went to a big-name school and was a game-breaking RB in college. Track speed, great make-you-miss ability in the open field. But just didn't have the patience, toughness or instincts as a running back. Became an all-time great punt returner, which I think Bush could be. Had excellent receiving skills, like Bush has. And really thrived when he was officially switched to receiver. That's where I now think Bush can be maximized. I really don't think two years is too early to judge him as a runner when I see a lack of skills at the position. But I think he could be a potential pro-bowler as a slot-type receiver that could simply break games open.

[GOBB]

Westbrook, Tiki Barber, who were originially 3rd down backs. But watch them run. They run hard, they don't avoid contact, and they break tackles despite their size.

Tiki Barber never ran hard, avoided contact or broke tackles early in his career. You're confusing the established Tiki Barber as opposed to the dissapointed, didnt achieve expectations Tiki Barber.

[dgbigballer9329]

I most certainly am not, you're just trying to win an argument. In fact I remember him killing the Redskins early in his career when it was "Thunder & Lightning" with him and Dayne, but Dayne never showed up.

How do you think Tiki won the job as a starting running back when he was an unheralded backup entering the league??? He certainly was handed neither expectations nor workload that Bush, the 2nd pick of the draft, was.

[SCREWstonRockets]

Its not as funny as it was back then...but the Texans still should have traded down regardless. No one was gonna steal Mario if they traded down. Reggie/Vince were the top sought out players. Texans just threw away an oppurtunity to add more picks to thier stable which could have ended up benefitting the team. Most teams who trade out of #1 do.

Still though, folks were saying stuff like it was the worst pick in history, and even compared it to the Sam Bowie/MJ draft. I was like 1 year old when that draft went down, but I don't think Sam Bowie ever outplayed MJ or Hakeem.

[GOBB]

Still though, folks were saying stuff like it was the worst pick in history, and even compared it to the Sam Bowie/MJ draft. I was like 1 year old when that draft went down, but I don't think Sam Bowie ever outplayed MJ or Hakeem.

Yeah that was said...Texans get the last laugh just off everyone blasting Mario like he wouldnt be a good DE or something. That was extreme. I think those folks are full from eating crow. :oldlol:

[GOBB]

I most certainly am not, you're just trying to win an argument. In fact I remember him killing the Redskins early in his career when it was "Thunder & Lightning" with him and Dayne, but Dayne never showed up.

dg you're wrong. Sorry and if you want to be proven wrong not by MY text. That can be done here.


http://forums.scout.com/mb.aspx?S=64#s=64&F=1867

Let me know because I'll create a topic about Tiki Barber early career and pose the things you said he did back then. And we'll see what is said about Tiki Barber the runner, what is said about Tiki Barber vs Reggie Bush.

Ron Dayne came 4yrs AFTER Tiki was drafted. So obviously you're ignorant to Tiki's career early on like I said. Tiki was light in the ass. 188 when he was drafted. It took years for him to bulk up and add muscle to his frame. But yeah he BROKE TACKLES right dg? They drafted Ron Dayne and used him (attempted to until they found out Ron was soft) on short yard situations because Tiki broke tackles. I mean get real even during Tiki's best years when Tom corrected his fumbling problem they went to Brandon Jacobs in the goaline. Why? Maybe the coach felt he couldnt get those short yards. Tiki could have but the coach didnt feel so. But the point remains if a HC years later when Tiki has improved and developed isnt confident Tiki can get the tough yards...then how the f*ck did you think he was breaking tackles BACK THEN? He wasnt.


How do you think Tiki won the job as a starting running back when he was an unheralded backup entering the league??? He certainly was handed neither expectations nor workload that Bush, the 2nd pick of the draft, was.

Tiki Barber was drafted to be the teams featured RB because he was not your typical North-South RB. He was a RB that was versatile that had speed, agility, ability to make defensive players miss. NYG expected him to step into that role and for 4yrs he failed to live up to expectations. He was nothing more than a 3rd down RB and punt returner. He was the teams David Meggette. And thats NOT what they hoped. Its a fact. When Tiki couldnt shoulder the load because he was small, lacked size, power, didnt break tackles (all the things you CLAIM Bush lacks which is funny) they tried to search for stop gaps at RB. Sean Bennett was supposed to be the "guy" but he fell victim to being on the injured list more than the field. Gary Brown was the veteran addition who added SIZE/POWER because Tiki lacked it. Charles Way a FB given carries like a RB was given chances. Numerous RBs were given the task because thier 2nd round pick failed to do so.

NYG drafted Ron Dayne and initially wanted Thomas Jones or Jamal Lewis. Thomas Jones was thier first want. He went early than they picked so they settled for Ron Dayne and decided Tunder/Lightning wouldnt be a bad idea. A duo where two RBs have different styles can give defenses a different look. NY was still not sold on Tiki shouldering the workload and being a featured RB. As Tiki's career developed he gradually improved the areas you said REGGIE BUSH LACKS.

But yeah I'm just trying to win an argument when all I'm typing are facts and truth here. F*ck outta here and atleast be educated on a topic as opposed to trying to be the one who presents a different side of the argument for f*cks sake.

We can easily prove you wrong by going to that link, creating a topic and seeing whats said. Your call. Or feel free to say it aint that serious, you dont care, whatever cliche can be used here.

[I'm Sorry, Guys!]

Another 100 yard effort by the Saints journeryman running back on a 4.3 yards per rush with 2 TD's. Which gives him one less TD than Bush with 80 less carries.



"...but...but...but...the offensive line is terrible" GOBB

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Rick]

Damn, guys give him sometime. He's only been in the league for 2 years.

[TMac&Luther]

Adrian Peterson was drafted because Chester Taylor is not a game breaking RB.

you really are clueless

[TMac&Luther]

Another 100 yard effort by the Saints journeryman running back on a 4.3 yards per rush with 2 TD's. Which gives him one less TD than Bush with 80 less carries.



"...but...but...but...the offensive line is terrible" GOBB

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

tell me about it.....that tool has no idea what he's talking about.

There goes that dumbass excuse......really the excuse was blown even the week before............Saints are a MUCH better team when they actually have a good running back running the ball and not forcing plays to a well below average, extremely overhyped player, because they have to justify his draft position and cap number.

[GOBB]

Gotta love when kids are asshurt and in denial. :oldlol:

[TMac&Luther]

I love how you use the word ignorant when this post is ignorant.

Brian Westbrook took 5yrs before he rushed OVER 1,000yds.
Tiki Barber took 6yrs before he rushed over 1,000yds. Took 8yrs to be considered ELITE.

The "good RB" you mentioned in Chester Taylor took 5yrs to rush over 1,000yds.

Thomas Jones 7th overall pick took 6yrs to rush for over 1,000yds


But Reggie Bush in 5yrs will be on the DOWNSIDE when all these backs after 5yrs went on the UP. :roll:

First of all, whatever point you were trying to make fell on deaf ears, because your "1000 yard season" argument in total B.S.

Westbrook and Taylor were always better runners even early in their career........they just didn't get the carries. The only person you can use to support your argument is Thomas Jones and even the bears thought Thomas Jones was a bust so they drafted Cedric Benson.......then all of a sudden Thomas Jones remembered how to run hard.

Thomas Jones is a PHYSICAL runner.........that's something Reggie Bush is not.

Second........I said IN FIVE YEARS.............as IN FIVE YEARS FROM NOW.........as in Bush's 7th year in the league........when he hill be on the backend of his prime. Please try to keep up.

[TMac&Luther]

Gotta love when kids are asshurt and in denial. :oldlol:

Gotta love when tools are proven wrong time and time again and have no argument, because the only one they did have was just blown out of the water on back to back Sundays. :applause:

P.S.

I'm not butt hurt...........my team is actually getting great production out of the player they drafted. :violin: Things are looking on the up and up over here.

[Carbine]

I've never been sold on Reggie the running back. He'll never be the franchise runner many wanted him to be coming out of college. What he is, and what I believe he should be evaluated as, is a football player - not strictly a runner.

He's had a bad year; the biggest Bush fan can't say otherwise. Not sure if it was injuries, or just a bad year for Reggie, but it clearly was not a year to remember.

Does that make him a bust?

Well, Peyton threw for 28 picks in his rookie year and had a 56% completion percentage on an offense that featured some pretty good talent. I'm sure people were calling him a bust back then, too.

It's pretty clear Bush won't live up to the hype he received coming out of college, but that in itself does not warrent a bust label - he has a very good chance to bounce back.

[TMac&Luther]

I've never been sold on Reggie the running back. He'll never be the franchise runner many wanted him to be coming out of college. What he is, and what I believe he should be evaluated as, is a football player - not strictly a runner.

He's had a bad year; the biggest Bush fan can't say otherwise. Not sure if it was injuries, or just a bad year for Reggie, but it clearly was not a year to remember.

Does that make him a bust?

Well, Peyton threw for 28 picks in his rookie year and had a 56% completion percentage on an offense that featured some pretty good talent. I'm sure people were calling him a bust back then, too.

It's pretty clear Bush won't live up to the hype he received coming out of college, but that in itself does not warrent a bust label - he has a very good chance to bounce back.

QBs are different from RBs.........there is actually a transition period for QBs. The runningback position is the easiest position outside of kicker and punter to make the step-up from college to the pros.

9 times out of 10 it's a "either you have it or you don't" position...........and Reggie Bush doesn't "have it", he needs to become a WR, because I actually think he could have a bright future at that position........there I gave Bush a compliment.

[GOBB]

I've never been sold on Reggie the running back. He'll never be the franchise runner many wanted him to be coming out of college. What he is, and what I believe he should be evaluated as, is a football player - not strictly a runner.

He's had a bad year; the biggest Bush fan can't say otherwise. Not sure if it was injuries, or just a bad year for Reggie, but it clearly was not a year to remember.

Does that make him a bust?

Well, Peyton threw for 28 picks in his rookie year and had a 56% completion percentage on an offense that featured some pretty good talent. I'm sure people were calling him a bust back then, too.

It's pretty clear Bush won't live up to the hype he received coming out of college, but that in itself does not warrent a bust label - he has a very good chance to bounce back.

Tmac&Luther cant read and comprehend that. Tis a shame. :oldlol:

But yet another solid post in here. :applause:

[TMac&Luther]

Tmac&Luther cant read and comprehend that. Tis a shame. :oldlol:

But yet another solid post in here. :applause:

Actually I already read and comprehended it...........I came to the conclusion that comparing a QB to a RB is apples and oranges, because well........it is.

On a side note though.......it sure is hilarious that your posts have just resorted to quoting other people, because your grand argument blew up in your face........now that's something to :oldlol: & :applause: about.

[-primetime-]

Why did you delete your post primetime? Did you look back and realize that you were talking out your ass again?

I didn't delete it...

I guess a mod must have...

[-primetime-]

Adrian Peterson was drafted because Chester Taylor is not a game breaking RB. A Game change, explosive offensive skill player. He was signed because he was the best thing available and Minny just added the best OG in the game. But heading into the draft Minny was in search of game breaking skill players at WR or RB. They lucked up and got Peterson. I never said Chester wasnt good but my point was Tmac claimed he was ALWAYS good. How could one claim such a thing when prior to his arrival in Minny he was a backup? And the production he had wasnt nothing compared to Reggie Bush's 2yrs which in his mind screams "Bush sucks!"? :confusedshrug:

I'm trying figure out how a backup for 5yrs with limited production is GREATER than a Reggie Bush 2yrs. So my point was if you felt Chester was a good RB that just needed an oppurtunity to showcase his talent then 1. You recognized his talent somehow and 2. You acknowledge some RBs need the right situations to excel and be productive. If 1 & 2 are true then why doesnt that apply to Reggie and only Chester? This all stemmed from me saying Reggie Bush would be productive behind Minnys OL because Chester Taylor was rushing for 1200yds 4.0ypc and he said no. Its like come on...you're overrating Chester in order to shyt on Bush some more.
I wasn't ttrying to compare Chester the Bush...

I just wanted to step in and tell you that the Vikes did not draft Peterson because of thier lack of a RB...they drefted Peterson because they pretty much had to...they couldn't pass up the 2nd best player in the draft...


and who is now the undesputed best player in the draft...(so far)

[-primetime-]

Damn, guys give him sometime. He's only been in the league for 2 years.
2 years is kind of enough for a player with his hype

he had just as much hype as Peterson...if not more

and right now Peterson is the best RB in the game...in his rookie year

[statman32]

2 years is kind of enough for a player with his hype

he had just as much hype as Peterson...if not more

and right now Peterson is the best RB in the game...in his rookie year
:oldlol:

What a ****ing joke you are.

[-primetime-]

sorry GOBB

but in as of "RIGHT NOW"


Mario > Bush



yes Bush "COULD BE" the next Gale Sayers...


but guess what


Troy Smith "COULD BE" the next Joe montana...


COULD BE = squat

so far Bush is nothing more than a bust...simple as that...o-line or not...he has not lived up to his hype or the spot he was drafted and that equates to being a bust in my eyes. (so far)

[TMac&Luther]

:oldlol:

What a ****ing joke you are.

Whats so funny about that..........it's the truth.

[statman32]

Whats so funny about that..........it's the truth.
Tomlinson didnt retire did he?

[-primetime-]

Tomlinson didnt retire did he?
lets not change the subject...

Tomlinson had a great game today...an arguement can be made for him

Peterson still has better numbers though and he was injured



I have a feeling Peterson will run for 200+ yds tomorrow night




the point was...Bush had just as much hype around him as Peterson did...probably more hype

Peterson is living up to it...Bush isn't

[TMac&Luther]

Tomlinson didnt retire did he?

No, not yet...why?

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d803425c4

The kid is a beast and in the year 2007/08 is the best back in the NFL.

[-primetime-]

No, not yet...why?

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d803425c4

The kid is a beast and in the year 2007/08 is the best back in the NFL.
I don't know how anyone could watch that and then say that he isn't the best best RB in the NFL right now...

that is just my opinion though...and the annoucer's opinion apparenty :D

[TMac&Luther]

Just in case you thought that was a fluke........

How about the game where he only threw up about 300 yards rushing, broke 2 NFL records, and only had the best game ever for a runningback in the history of the NFL....

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d803e06db

Count how many times the Chargers misjudged his speed......the way you can tell is how many times the players take the wrong angle in their pursuit.....they think they got him measured up and then he just hits a gear a handful of backs have ever had and he just goes right around them.

The Chargers looked afraid and bewildered........they knew what was coming and they KNEW they couldn't stop it.

[raid09]

Just in case you thought that was a fluke........

How about the game where he only threw up about 300 yards rushing, broke 2 NFL records, and only had the best game ever for a runningback in the history of the NFL....

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d803e06db

Count how many times the Chargers misjudged his speed......the way you can tell is how many times the players take the wrong angle in their pursuit.....they think they got him measured up and then he just hits a gear a handful of backs have ever had and he just goes right around them.

The Chargers looked afraid and bewildered........they knew what was coming and they KNEW they couldn't stop it.

:oldlol: LT has been doing his thing for years.

[GOBB]

1. Tmac&Luther cant admit he has been proven wrong countless times. Others can see it but him.

2. No one is claiming Reggie Bush doesnt have weaknesses. He does. Again he has to get stronger which will help him hit the hole hard which he struggles/doesnt do. By getting strong, hitting the hole he then will gain confidence and hopefully kill the happy feet/indecisiveness when he runs in between tackles. Brian Westbrook AND Tiki Barber suffered from the same problem. Brian Westbrook finally "gets it", Tiki didnt get it until 6yrs later. Anyone who follows football and watch both as rookie and thier progression will attest to that. So again Bush has weaknesses and i dont think anyone is disputing that.

3. Mentioning Stecker last two games i comedy. Like that justifies anything. The Saints OL needs to do a better job run blocking regardless and it doesnt excuse Bush from his weaknesses (see #2). Combination of OL and Bush needing to develop and improve to be a complete RB. Stecker is stronger and hits the hole harder...he's a veteran and has experience. Dont see why his last two performances has any relevance to Bush.

4. Tomlinson did what Adrian Peterson is doing/has done which is dominate defenses and the league. Tomlinson came off a season that was incredible. He won MVP and was arguably the best player in football. He had a leit argument for that title. Fast forward 1 yr later and now he is no longer the best RB because a rookie who spent time splitting carries with Chester, missing 2gms has already surpassed Tomlinson because he is having a successful rookie season. Seems like you're only as good as your last game. Thats the mentality some fools have. Cant take anyone serious if they think Peterson is a better RB than Tomlinson. There is a big difference with a player having a BETTER SEASON than being a BETTER PLAYER. Not sure people can differentiate the two. :confusedshrug:

5. Bush didnt live up the hype (how many times have we repeated this? Oh because one idiot name Tmac&Luther cant comprehend such a simple statement). It doesnt mean he wont be a good RB down the road. I love your spin how 5yrs from now = 7th season. Do you one better...wait til the season is over then say 5yrs from now = 8th season. You're reaching and its not funny. Tiki Barber emerged as an ELITE RB in his 8th year. Brian Westbrook is finally an established and respected RB in his 6th season. So next season Brian wont be worth a damn according to your logic since it will be his 7th season. :rolleyes: How many years has Tomlinson played again? Yeah thats what I thought. All 3 RBs on a downward spiral. Whoa is me. :sleeping



Not many on this board know much about the game of football. But this is a bball site so i cant say that I'm surprised. :pimp:

[-primetime-]

4. Tomlinson did what Adrian Peterson is doing/has done which is dominate defenses and the league. Tomlinson came off a season that was incredible. He won MVP and was arguably the best player in football. He had a leit argument for that title. Fast forward 1 yr later and now he is no longer the best RB because a rookie who spent time splitting carries with Chester, missing 2gms has already surpassed Tomlinson because he is having a successful rookie season. Seems like you're only as good as your last game. Thats the mentality some fools have. Cant take anyone serious if they think Peterson is a better RB than Tomlinson. There is a big difference with a player having a BETTER SEASON than being a BETTER PLAYER. Not sure people can differentiate the two. :confusedshrug:

but...right now Peterson IS better than LT

last season is long gone

[GOBB]

but...right now Peterson IS better than LT

last season is long gone

Better how? Tomlinson is a better blocker, better picking up blitz, better pass catcher. :confusedshrug:

[-primetime-]

Better how? Tomlinson is a better blocker, better picking up blitz, better pass catcher. :confusedshrug:
not this year he isn't...

Peterson can catch fine....in fact he may have more recieving yards

and thier is nothing wrong with Peterson's blocking

[raid09]

not this year he isn't...

Peterson can catch fine....in fact he may have more recieving yards

and thier is nothing wrong with Peterson's blocking

You know what, you're right. If he DID block, there would probably be something wrong with it. Since his blocking is pretty much non-existent, I guess you can say there isn't anything wrong with it.

He's a rookie. An amazing rookie. But you're comparing him to a seasoned superstar who has been putting up similar stats for years.

[-primetime-]

You know what, you're right. If he DID block, there would probably be something wrong with it. Since his blocking is pretty much non-existent, I guess you can say there isn't anything wrong with it.

He's a rookie. An amazing rookie. But you're comparing him to a seasoned superstar who has been putting up similar stats for years.
I am comparing them THIS YEAR....yes

I don't have a problem with anyone saying that LT has been better this year better actually...

It is just my opinion that Peterson has been the best RB this year....that's all

[raid09]

I am comparing them THIS YEAR....yes

I don't have a problem with anyone saying that LT has been better this year better actually...

It is just my opinion that Peterson has been the best RB this year....that's all

Better RB this year? I might be able to give you "debatable."

But, to call him better than LT as a running back? He hasn't taken that title yet.

[TMac&Luther]

Oh because one idiot name Tmac&Luther cant comprehend such a simple statement). It doesnt mean he wont be a good RB down the road. I love your spin how 5yrs from now = 7th season. Do you one better...wait til the season is over then say 5yrs from now = 8th season. You're reaching and its not funny. Tiki Barber emerged as an ELITE RB in his 8th year. Brian Westbrook is finally an established and respected RB in his 6th season. So next season Brian wont be worth a damn according to your logic since it will be his 7th season. :rolleyes: How many years has Tomlinson played again? Yeah thats what I thought. All 3 RBs on a downward spiral. Whoa is me. :sleeping



Not many on this board know much about the game of football. But this is a bball site so i cant say that I'm surprised. :pimp:

Are you spewing nonsense again....hmm go figure what else is new.

First off, I never spinned crap....


No it's ignorant to wait another 5 years for him to be a good back.

The shelf life on NFL RBs are short..........Backs that are taken that high are expected to be VERY GOOD backs straight out of the gate.........in 5 years Bush is going to be on the downside of his career and most likely a backup.
5 years from now Bush is going to be completing his 7th season in the league dumbass

For somebody who loves to talk about "comprehension" all the time, your dumbass can't comprehend SH!T.........and you have the nerve to call others idiots........now run along little kid and go make up some more excuses for Reggie Bush, you know since your whole Oline theory was destroyed....and I'm the one who can't admit I'm wrong. :oldlol: please stfu already.

Adrian Peterson is the best runningback in the NFL RIGHT NOW, this isn't basketball where players stay on the top of their game forever, it's the NFL and especially at the RB position. LT is still one of the best players in the game no doubt and I'm not saying he's washed up or that he's even close to being done yet, because he's not. Peterson is just that special........Tomlinson is better all around, but as far as being a pure runner......Peterson is better.

Having said all that.........Peterson hasn't really looked the same since his knee injury so by the time the end of the season comes things might look alot closer than they really are.

P.S. I'll challenge you to a football discussion anyday of the week.......basketball isn't even my favorite sport.

[-primetime-]

Better RB this year? I might be able to give you "debatable."

But, to call him better than LT as a running back? He hasn't taken that title yet.
i will tell you this...

if I was starting a team and had to pick between LT and AD....give me AD


tonight he had 78yds and 2 tds....and that is a bad game for him

[GOBB]

not this year he isn't...

Peterson can catch fine....in fact he may have more recieving yards

and thier is nothing wrong with Peterson's blocking

Peterson is a rookie...he hasnt seen blitz schemes and defenses to know where to look. Rookies in general especially RBs dont block great when they enter the NFL. He blew a blocking assignment last night as Urlacher sacked Jackson. That was Peterson responsibility. A good blocking RB would have picked that up. So you're WRONG about saying there is nothing wrong with Petersons blocking. He needs atleast 3 more years in the NFL to evaluate if he is a complete RB and if he continues to produce and impact.

Tomlinson does it all. Peterson doesnt...and its not because he cant or wont its just real simple. He hasnt had the time to improve and display it.

[GOBB]

5 years from now Bush is going to be completing his 7th season in the league dumbass

Whats your point? Tomlinson is in his 7th season and he remains the best RB in the NFL and came off a career year scooping up the MVP. Brian Westbrook is completing his 6th season and is having himself a career year all around. Tiki Barber emerged as an elite RB in his 8h season. But Reggie Bush completing his 7th season will be on the downside of his career. :oldlol:



For somebody who loves to talk about "comprehension" all the time, your dumbass can't comprehend SH!T.........and you have the nerve to call others idiots........now run along little kid and go make up some more excuses for Reggie Bush, you know since your whole Oline theory was destroyed....and I'm the one who can't admit I'm wrong. :oldlol: please stfu already.

How was it destroyed? Because Aaron Stecker had two good games? :oldlol: No NFL franchise would ever make Stecker a featured RB. Heck no franchise would use Stecker to split carries with another RB. 8yrs in the NFL. He's stronger than Reggie Bush. He ran against the Cards and Falcons. Not exactly run stuffing defenses. Saints OL is still not good at run blocking no matter how you ATTEMPT to spin it. And the OL isnt the only reason Reggie Bush isnt rushing for numerous yards at a 5ypc clip. Never said it was. You're struggling with your argument so anything you can spin, reach on you'll do it.

No poster came in here and laughed at my logic calling me a dumbass. But they did with you.


Adrian Peterson is the best runningback in the NFL RIGHT NOW, this isn't basketball where players stay on the top of their game forever, it's the NFL and especially at the RB position. LT is still one of the best players in the game no doubt and I'm not saying he's washed up or that he's even close to being done yet, because he's not. Peterson is just that special........Tomlinson is better all around, but as far as being a pure runner......Peterson is better.

There is a difference with saying who is the best RB and who is the better rusher at RB. You feel Peterson is a better rusher? Fine its arguable...but you wanna know who the better RB is? Its Tomlinson. There are things Peterson cant do that Tomlinson can....there arent many things if anything at all that Peterson can do that Tomlinson cant! Thats a FACT. Find me something Peterson can do that Tomlinson cant. Find me something that Peterson does better than Tomlinson. You'll struggle like you did in this thread. :oldlol:


Having said all that.........Peterson hasn't really looked the same since his knee injury so by the time the end of the season comes things might look alot closer than they really are.

He came back from injury...who comes right back and picks up where they left off?


P.S. I'll challenge you to a football discussion anyday of the week.......basketball isn't even my favorite sport.

You would get embarrassed like you did in here. Do a poll and well over 85% would side with me in this thread. You've displayed no knowledge here after I've proven countless things WRONG had to correct and school you in here.

You should pay attention more to what I type.

[TMac&Luther]

Whats your point? Tomlinson is in his 7th season and he remains the best RB in the NFL and came off a career year scooping up the MVP. Brian Westbrook is completing his 6th season and is having himself a career year all around. Tiki Barber emerged as an elite RB in his 8h season. But Reggie Bush completing his 7th season will be on the downside of his career. :oldlol:




How was it destroyed? Because Aaron Stecker had two good games? :oldlol: No NFL franchise would ever make Stecker a featured RB. Heck no franchise would use Stecker to split carries with another RB. 8yrs in the NFL. He's stronger than Reggie Bush. He ran against the Cards and Falcons. Not exactly run stuffing defenses. Saints OL is still not good at run blocking no matter how you ATTEMPT to spin it. And the OL isnt the only reason Reggie Bush isnt rushing for numerous yards at a 5ypc clip. Never said it was. You're struggling with your argument so anything you can spin, reach on you'll do it.

No poster came in here and laughed at my logic calling me a dumbass. But they did with you.



There is a difference with saying who is the best RB and who is the better rusher at RB. You feel Peterson is a better rusher? Fine its arguable...but you wanna know who the better RB is? Its Tomlinson. There are things Peterson cant do that Tomlinson can....there arent many things if anything at all that Peterson can do that Tomlinson cant! Thats a FACT. Find me something Peterson can do that Tomlinson cant. Find me something that Peterson does better than Tomlinson. You'll struggle like you did in this thread. :oldlol:



He came back from injury...who comes right back and picks up where they left off?



You would get embarrassed like you did in here. Do a poll and well over 85% would side with me in this thread. You've displayed no knowledge here after I've proven countless things WRONG had to correct and school you in here.

You should pay attention more to what I type.

First of all, you keep bringing up probowl caliber backs and try to use them to support your argument.......that's where your logic is flawed........I don't think he's in their class.

Second, I never said Steckler was a starting RB.......that's my point you jackass, he's a scrub who's doing BETTER than Reggie Bush behind the same damn line..........OMFG you are so clueless.

Another thing, you might want to go see where that Cardinals run defense is rated before you trash that run D Steckler ran against.......yeah I'm really :bowdown: at your football knowledge. :oldlol: ......again, your wrong again, but your going to continue to tell me I'm wrong, just because your a moron.

I've already said Tomlinson is the better ovrl football player........Peterson is the better runner.....that's something he does BETTER, he has two 200 yard football games and is right there with LT rushing wise despite being out with a knee injury..........and I KNOW HE CAME BACK FROM INJURY......that's why I mentioned it you retard........I'm also not expecting him to be as beastly....he's got a f*cking brace on his leg.

P.S.......outside of where Tiki was drafted (I admit I got that wrong) you haven't "schooled me in sh!t".......I constantly blow up every argument you serve out and your only rebuttal is......uh, uh, uh........your wrong......, yeah your wrong, I have nothing better to say so I'll say your wrong...(yeah, I got him there, I told him he's wrong...look mommy I pwned him :rolleyes: )

You don't even know half the sh!t your talking about.

P.S. you were laughed at on here, dumbass and I don't need to read a poll to see who knows more, I already know that........you've got over 16,000 posts on here so it's pretty obvious you have no life and probably have alot of allies on here. Your probably #1 in the ISH's virg....uh I mean poster HOF thread.

[Doomsday Dallas]

1.) Is Reggie Bush good at blocking?

2.) 3.7 yrds per carry.... Not good

3.) He's fumbled 10 times so far.... Not good

4.) Is he durrable?.... Isn't he out for the season?

5.) His longest run is 22 yrds. (312 carries)... Not good.

6.) Can he be an every down back? (So far I'd say no)

7.) Only time will tell.... But it's becoming clear he needs another
RB on his team to be the true threat he can be.




END THREAD

[GOBB]

1.) Is Reggie Bush good at blocking?

Does it matter?


2.) 3.7 yrds per carry.... Not good

Stating the obvious


3.) He's fumbled 10 times so far.... Not good

He's fumbled 7 times and lost 3 of them.


4.) Is he durrable?.... Isn't he out for the season?

1 injury = not durable? Ok, guess Peterson isnt durable either. So what was your point again?


5.) His longest run is 22 yrds. (312 carries)... Not good.

You figured that out by yourself? :confusedshrug:


6.) Can he be an every down back? (So far I'd say no)

Same questions teams asked about Tiki and Westbrook. If you went back then you'd say no so far as well. And what happened? You tell me brain.


7.) Only time will tell.... But it's becoming clear he needs another RB on his team to be the true threat he can be.

What does he need another RB for? That doesnt make sense. And as far as the bold...we established that already. Go drill that into that moron Tmac&Luther's head.

[GOBB]

First of all, you keep bringing up probowl caliber backs and try to use them to support your argument.......that's where your logic is flawed........I don't think he's in their class.

Are you THAT stupid? Neither Tiki Barber nor Brain Westbrook were pro bowl caliber RBs not only WHEN they were drafted but WHEN THEY FIRST STARTED PLAYING FOOTBALL. As I said before it took both Rbs YEARS before they established themselves, answered all questions (can they run between the tackles, can they hit the hole hard, do they have the strength to shed off tacklers, break tackles,m do they go down after initial contact and are they durable to be an every down RB).

Your brain operates on DUMB. :oldlol: My logic is flawed when I compare the early years of Tiki/Westbrook to Reggie Bush EARLY YEARS. Mofo has completed his 2nd year and so far has done more as a recieving threat than either Tiki or Brian at this point in thier careers and he rushed just as good.

Read the f*cking BOLD and I double dare you to come back here and say OTHERWISE. You cant. Did you read that? Read it again...

YOU CANT!

:roll:



Second, I never said Steckler was a starting RB.......that's my point you jackass, he's a scrub who's doing BETTER than Reggie Bush behind the same damn line..........OMFG you are so clueless.

2gms vs the Cards and Falcons. Call me when he does it for 16gms.


Another thing, you might want to go see where that Cardinals run defense is rated before you trash that run D Steckler ran against.......yeah I'm really :bowdown: at your football knowledge. :oldlol: ......again, your wrong again, but your going to continue to tell me I'm wrong, just because your a moron.

Cards give up 100yds per game which is what Stecker got.


I've already said Tomlinson is the better ovrl football player........Peterson is the better runner.....that's something he does BETTER, he has two 200 yard football games and is right there with LT rushing wise despite being out with a knee injury

He is the better runner based on 2 games where he was a stud statistically? :oldlol: What kind of logic is that? Is that all you have on proving an argument to why Peterson is a better runner? And you want to challenge my football knowledge in a debate???? Are you kidding me?

Tomlinson has 4 career 200yd rushing games. Rushed for 200yds twice in 2 different seasons. He also has a handful of games rushing over 180yds. 1 game where he rushed for 199yds. Tomlinson came off a season where he posted over 1800yds rushing (tanks 17th all time) with 28 total rushing tds (ranks #1 all time in NFL history).


P.S.......outside of where Tiki was drafted (I admit I got that wrong) you haven't "schooled me in sh!t".......I constantly blow up every argument you serve out and your only rebuttal is......uh, uh, uh........your wrong......, yeah your wrong, I have nothing better to say so I'll say your wrong...(yeah, I got him there, I told him he's wrong...look mommy I pwned him :rolleyes: )

These you were wrong on...not even gonna sift thru the other crap.

1. Barry made pro bowlers out of his line

Wrong

2. Second, Chester Taylor was always a good back (even before Minny signed Steve Hutchinson).........before this season, he put up better #'s (YPC) before he even got to Minnesota

Wrong.

1599yds and 2tds in 4yrs for Chester. 1146yds 10tds for Bush

The difference in rush yards is 453yds which would be less had he not got injured. So Bush produced as much in 2yrs as Chester did in 4. The only thing you have to go by is yards per carry. Thats it.

3. Go look at what backs like Curtis Martin did throughout his entire career......(he didn't have a freaking all-pro line throughout his entire career)

Wrong...Curtis had pro bowlers and pro bowl caliber OL in NE and NYJ


P.S. you were laughed at on here, dumbass and I don't need to read a poll to see who knows more, I already know that........you've got over 16,000 posts on here so it's pretty obvious you have no life and probably have alot of allies on here. Your probably #1 in the ISH's virg....uh I mean poster HOF thread.

:roll: Pullling out the total posts argument backed by "no life". Typical of posters here when they are defeated. Its ok...just step your game up next time and i wont drag you by your pigtails no more.

:pimp:

[TMac&Luther]

1.) Is Reggie Bush good at blocking?

2.) 3.7 yrds per carry.... Not good

3.) He's fumbled 10 times so far.... Not good

4.) Is he durrable?.... Isn't he out for the season?

5.) His longest run is 22 yrds. (312 carries)... Not good.

6.) Can he be an every down back? (So far I'd say no)

7.) Only time will tell.... But it's becoming clear he needs another
RB on his team to be the true threat he can be.




END THREAD

don't even bother trying to talk any sense to him, he's having no part of it..........he can't even figure out why you said Bush needs another back next to him. :oldlol:

Somebody has to pick up the tough yards, because Bush never did.........who was standing on the sidelines when USC tried to pick up a crucial 4th and 2 in the title game?

[GOBB]

Somebody has to pick up the tough yards, because Bush never did.........who was standing on the sidelines when USC tried to pick up a crucial 4th and 2 in the title game?

NYG drafted Ron Dayne for the same reasons when Tiki was thier starting RB.

NYG put in Brandon Jacobs on short yardage situations and especially goaline situations where Jacobs racked up 16 rushing tds in 2yrs when Tiki was a top 3 RB in the NFL.

And Lendale White was a talented RB at USC. Went high in the draft. He had more power between the tackles than Bush. No argument there.

But somehow Bush needs another RB next to him to be a true threat. :oldlol:

[TMac&Luther]

Tiki was struggled with injuries early on.......Westbrook split carries, but always had a good YPC........as did Taylor.........which is why they were always good backs moron.

First off, never said Peterson was better based off two games........you asked what can Peterson do that Tomlinson can't.........and I told you.

so your wrong again

and I'm not pulling BS out of my ass in, because I'm "defeated", infact I already know I won this argument........I'm just pointing out the truth that all you do is say I'm wrong and when you can't show me where I'm wrong you have to put words in my mouth or try to say I "spun something"....... you clearly have no idea what your talking about.

I blow up your own arguments and you just keep coming back with more stupid crap. You even tried to call me out and say people were laughing at me when it's you thats being laughed at.

BTW moron.......the Cards have the 11th best (top third) rush defense in the entire league.......nice job at trying to spin, by saying "they almost give up 100 yards a game", when 21 other teams give up over 100........every team in the league almost gives up a hundred.......but your right, your such a football genius........stick to BBall fool, you don't know sh!t about football.

[TMac&Luther]

NYG drafted Ron Dayne for the same reasons when Tiki was thier starting RB.

NYG put in Brandon Jacobs on short yardage situations and especially goaline situations where Jacobs racked up 16 rushing tds in 2yrs when Tiki was a top 3 RB in the NFL.

And Lendale White was a talented RB at USC. Went high in the draft. He had more power between the tackles than Bush. No argument there.

But somehow Bush needs another RB next to him to be a true threat. :oldlol:

NYG didn't take Dayne in the first round to be a third down back dumbass........that's why he's considered a bust. Jacobs got the goaline carries and short situations.

Tiki carried the load when he was with Jacobs......not the other way around.......Tiki got most the carries.

Bush doesn't need a third down back..........he IS the third down back......he needs a back to CARRY the load. That's what everybody is trying to tell you.......his soft running and dancing puts his team in bad situations, which is the reason with a healthy Deuce the Saints were better last year.

Reggie Bush is a scat back/reciever........they need a true runningback and Bush is not that.

[Doomsday Dallas]

NYG drafted Ron Dayne for the same reasons when Tiki was thier starting RB.

NYG put in Brandon Jacobs on short yardage situations and especially goaline situations where Jacobs racked up 16 rushing tds in 2yrs when Tiki was a top 3 RB in the NFL.



I thought we were just talking about Bush? :confusedshrug:

[statman32]

Tiki was struggled with injuries early on.......Westbrook split carries, but always had a good YPC........as did Taylor.........which is why they were always good backs moron.

First off, never said Peterson was better based off two games........you asked what can Peterson do that Tomlinson can't.........and I told you.

so your wrong again

and I'm not pulling BS out of my ass in, because I'm "defeated", infact I already know I won this argument........I'm just pointing out the truth that all you do is say I'm wrong and when you can't show me where I'm wrong you have to put words in my mouth or try to say I "spun something"....... you clearly have no idea what your talking about.

I blow up your own arguments and you just keep coming back with more stupid crap. You even tried to call me out and say people were laughing at me when it's you thats being laughed at.

BTW moron.......the Cards have the 11th best (top third) rush defense in the entire league.......nice job at trying to spin, by saying "they almost give up 100 yards a game", when 21 other teams give up over 100........every team in the league almost gives up a hundred.......but your right, your such a football genius........stick to BBall fool, you don't know sh!t about football.
Lmao.. Cardinals rush defense sucks now. Without the luxury of having Wilson play in the box the Cards have a very subpar rush defense.

But hey keep acting like you know what you're talking about. Makes everyone else seem smarter.

[TMac&Luther]

I thought we were just talking about Bush? :confusedshrug:

He has to pick every back who either split carries early on or struggled with injuries.

Basically he has to pick backs that had to prove themselves first and weren't the #2 pick in the draft and given a shot right out of the gate.

It reminds me of the Houston Texans fans that used to pull up the stats for the first three years of QBs like Troy Aikman in a sad attempt to justify the crappiness of David Carr........that's basically what he's doing.

excuses
excuses
excuses

[TMac&Luther]

Lmao.. Cardinals rush defense sucks now. Without the luxury of having Wilson play in the box the Cards have a very subpar rush defense.

But hey keep acting like you know what you're talking about. Makes everyone else seem smarter.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&statisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=&seasonType=REG


I really don't think I'm making anybody seem smarter........well except for the people that think Bush sucks.

I never got on his bandwagon, glad I didn't then I wouldn't have to have egg on my face like GOBB......no wonder he's so pissed off. Bush is making me look smarter every day buddy.

[-primetime-]

Peterson is a rookie...he hasnt seen blitz schemes and defenses to know where to look. Rookies in general especially RBs dont block great when they enter the NFL. He blew a blocking assignment last night as Urlacher sacked Jackson. That was Peterson responsibility. A good blocking RB would have picked that up. So you're WRONG about saying there is nothing wrong with Petersons blocking. He needs atleast 3 more years in the NFL to evaluate if he is a complete RB and if he continues to produce and impact.

Tomlinson does it all. Peterson doesnt...and its not because he cant or wont its just real simple. He hasnt had the time to improve and display it.
I know the exact play you are talking about...

so Peterson gives up 1 sack and suddenly he can't protect worth a damn?

[GOBB]

Tiki was struggled with injuries early on

What did Tiki do when he was healthy his rookie year before having an knee inury near the end (much like Bush this year)? Nothing. Good thing you're gonna hand onto "He was injured" but that doesnt mean much because if he were healthy for 2yrs he wouldnt duplicate the things Reggie Bush did his first two years.

Now what? What you gotta say about that? Not talkin YPC with Tiki huh? Selective user you. :roll:


.......Westbrook split carries, but always had a good YPC........as did Taylor.........which is why they were always good backs moron.

Correll Buckhalter? Stop the madness. You mean Westbrook couldnt beat out Buckhalter? Wow.



First off, never said Peterson was better based off two games........you asked what can Peterson do that Tomlinson can't.........and I told you.

Tomlinson has 4 career 200 rushing yard games. 2 times in 2 different years. And a handful of 180+yd games where one game he had 199yds. He's done what Peterson has. So you CANT say Tomlinson CANT rush for 200yds in a game. I just showed you where Tomlinson ranks in terms of RUSHING.

So again...you havent told me NOTHING in terms of what Peterson can do that Tomlinson cant. Rushing is not one of them...not only has Tomlinson done everything Peterson has done rushing in a game, he';s made his mark overall rushing as he ranks 19th overall in NFL history with career rushing yards in only 7 season. And 7 straight years of 1,000yds rushing. Take your seat.


I blow up your own arguments and you just keep coming back with more stupid crap. You even tried to call me out and say people were laughing at me when it's you thats being laughed at.

By who? Name the posters.


BTW moron.......the Cards have the 11th best (top third) rush defense in the entire league.......nice job at trying to spin, by saying "they almost give up 100 yards a game", when 21 other teams give up over 100........every team in the league almost gives up a hundred.......but your right, your such a football genius........stick to BBall fool, you don't know sh!t about football.

The Cards run D stinks now...educate yourself.

[statman32]

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&statisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=&seasonType=REG

Stats don't lie.......even the best run defenses have bad days, doesn't mean they SUCK


Why would you post the season stats when I told you they did have a good rush defense but ever since Wilson got injured they have been subpar. God you're dumb.

There are too many variables for some one to base something purely on stats.

[GOBB]

I know the exact play you are talking about...

so Peterson gives up 1 sack and suddenly he can't protect worth a damn?

No it means hes not the blocker you falsely claimed him to be. Why interpet the negative and overlook the actual POINT? The point is you lied and were wrong because in general rookie rbs arent good at blocking early on. Peterson is neither a great or bad blocker. There isnt much to go on to determine how good of a blocker he is but he has blown some assignments this season. Its a learning process and he needs time. Just like he needs time to be a COMPLETE RB in the NFL. Thats all that is being said so acknowledge it. Peterson is a great rusher...he still has work to do. Thats all. Thats no diss, no slight, no underlying negative message. Its stating the obvious which doesnt seem so obvious to some. :confusedshrug:

[GOBB]

Why would you post the season stats when I told you they did have a good rush defense but ever since Wilson got injured they have been subpar. God you're dumb.

There are too many variables for some one to base something purely on stats.

Exactly!

[TMac&Luther]

The Cards run D stinks now...educate yourself.

Not even going to get into the other crap, because we've already discussed that crap again.......but guess what.

I don't let people just tell me something sucks or take peoples word on something.......I like to do a little reserch so guess what? I went and did a little reserch and your little Buddy is WRONG

Not only does the Cards run D NOT suck.......they were actually BETTER.

Wilson has missed 5 games.....in the 4 games (obviously Im not going to count the Steckler game, because that would count against his performance)

The Cards only gave up 1 100 yard rusher (which was Frank Gore) and only 93.2 total rushing yards a game.........a full 6 yards UNDER their season average.

:roll: damn it's funny how sh!t turns out.......go do the math yourself if you don't believe me.

[GOBB]

I thought we were just talking about Bush? :confusedshrug:

We are...dont know why you're confused. I listed a RB that had a short yardage back behind him that came in situational plays. Bush doesnt need another RB to be a threat. So until someone explains that I just addressed Tmac&Luther saying he needed another RB because Bush wont get that short yardage for a first down (and he used a USC example). My counter is showing it doesnt matter because some teams have situational players.

This game has evolved and changed and you have players who do specific duties often based on strengths and weaknesses.

[TMac&Luther]

Why would you post the season stats when I told you they did have a good rush defense but ever since Wilson got injured they have been subpar. God you're dumb.

There are too many variables for some one to base something purely on stats.

Really buddy........I just went game by game and did all the math since Wilson has been out and guess what......your wrong.

God you and Gobb are both dumb.......don't you love it when Sh!t blows up in your face.......but hey, Bush nutt huggers should be used to that.....I wonder why he calls himself Gobb........he gobbs on those balls.

[-primetime-]

speaking of Bush:


dropped passes so far this year:

1 Reggie Bush NO 10
2t Dallas Clark Ind 9
2t Braylon Edwards Cle 9
2t Devery Henderson NO 9
2t Terrell Owens Dal 9
6t Brandon Marshall Den 8
6t Santana Moss Was 8
8t Anthony Gonzalez Ind 7
8t Earnest Graham TB 7
8t T.J. Houshmandzadeh Cin 7
8t Darrell Jackson SF 7
8t Randy Moss NE 7
8t Steve Smith Car 7
8t Brian Westbrook Phi 7
15t Marty Booker Mia 6
15t Plaxico Burress NYG 6
15t Desmond Clark Chi 6
15t Keary Colbert Car 6
15t Ronald Curry Oak 6
15t Warrick Dunn Atl 6
15t Edgerrin James Ari 6
15t Michael Jenkins Atl 6
15t Chad Johnson Cin 6
15t Kenton Keith Ind 6
15t Shaun McDonald Det 6
15t Roy Williams Det 6
15t Kellen Winslow Cle 6
15t Jason Witten Dal 6

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232

[Doomsday Dallas]

THIS ARGUMENT HAS GOT TO STOP.


Bottom line:
--------------
Bush Sucks!

[GOBB]

NYG didn't take Dayne in the first round to be a third down back dumbass........that's why he's considered a bust. Jacobs got the goaline carries and short situations.

Ron Dayne was drafted to 1. Be insurance in case Tiki doesnt pan out as a featured RB/NYG werent confident he could be. They actually wanted Thomas Jones to be thier pick. 2. Change of pace, supposed to be the bruiser, the chane mover on short yard situations. Thats where the Thunder/Lightning came from. 1 RB who was all speed, agility and 1 RB who was power, got the tough yards.

Ron Dayne role became that of Lendale White. Thats a fact.

Jacobs got the goaline and short yard situations why? Tiki was an elite RB at the time. Answer me that because it will only show how silly your argument about Reggie Bush being on the sideline on 4th and 2 for Lendale (high draft pick) White. :roll: Go on and answer kiddo.



Bush doesn't need a third down back..........he IS the third down back......he needs a back to CARRY the load. That's what everybody is trying to tell you.......his soft running and dancing puts his team in bad situations, which is the reason with a healthy Deuce the Saints were better last year.

Same things said about Tiki Barber and Brian Westbrook early into thier careers. Heard this all before. Look how it ended years later :sleeping

Yet somehow Bush is exempt from ever improving like those two did. :rolleyes:

[GOBB]

speaking of Bush:


dropped passes so far this year:

1 Reggie Bush NO 10
2t Dallas Clark Ind 9
2t Braylon Edwards Cle 9
2t Devery Henderson NO 9
2t Terrell Owens Dal 9
6t Brandon Marshall Den 8
6t Santana Moss Was 8
8t Anthony Gonzalez Ind 7
8t Earnest Graham TB 7
8t T.J. Houshmandzadeh Cin 7
8t Darrell Jackson SF 7
8t Randy Moss NE 7
8t Steve Smith Car 7
8t Brian Westbrook Phi 7
15t Marty Booker Mia 6
15t Plaxico Burress NYG 6
15t Desmond Clark Chi 6
15t Keary Colbert Car 6
15t Ronald Curry Oak 6
15t Warrick Dunn Atl 6
15t Edgerrin James Ari 6
15t Michael Jenkins Atl 6
15t Chad Johnson Cin 6
15t Kenton Keith Ind 6
15t Shaun McDonald Det 6
15t Roy Williams Det 6
15t Kellen Winslow Cle 6
15t Jason Witten Dal 6

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232

So what? :confusedshrug:

What is your point?

[-primetime-]

So what? :confusedshrug:

What is your point?
just pointing out that Bush leads the NFL in dropped passes...that's all




that is who this thread is about right?

[TMac&Luther]

Same things said about Tiki Barber and Brian Westbrook early into thier careers. Heard this all before. Look how it ended years later :sleeping

Yet somehow Bush is exempt from ever improving like those two did. :rolleyes:

Westbrook was a good back early on......look at his YPC, seriously I still don't even know why you keep throwing his name out there.

Tiki is your only hope, your hanging on to him like a freaking dingle berry.

For every Tiki there's a Eric Metcalf type of player.......so there's that argument, it goes both ways.

Oh, btw hows that Cardinal argument going. :oldlol: BANG! that one made me laugh......did you do the math yet.

[GOBB]

Really buddy........I just went game by game and did all the math since Wilson has been out and guess what......your wrong.

God you and Gobb are both dumb.......don't you love it when Sh!t blows up in your face.......but hey, Bush nutt huggers should be used to that.....I wonder why he calls himself Gobb........he gobbs on those balls.

statman = full fledge Arizona fan. He sees the team and most Arizona based teams than you and me. I'd like to think he has a better eye.

Eagles run D isnt good either and look at thier ranking. By thier ranking you would act like thier run D is good and stifling. Teams take advantage of thier weak pass coverage and the lack of rush the LBs provide (GoCong/Takeo arent great in this area).

NE Pats one main weakness and one way teams have targetted and exploited in games where they almost lost/and or had to fight? Run D. But NE usually jumps out on teams early so its common most teams abandon the run and attempt to pass and to cut deficit. But NE run D is an area any team that wants to win? Should attack...check the past teams that gave NE fits and see how well thier run D played. But if you go by STATS it doesnt tell that story.

Anyone can grab stats and mold them into something they are not.

[statman32]

Really buddy........I just went game by game and did all the math since Wilson has been out and guess what......your wrong.

God you and Gobb are both dumb.......don't you love it when Sh!t blows up in your face.......but hey, Bush not huggers should be used to that.....I wonder why he calls himself Gobb........he gobbs on those balls.
Let me repeat myself.

There are too many variables for someone to judge things solely on stats. Did you look at situations/other teams rushing offense/ yards per carry??

No, because you're a simple person. The kind of guy that would say Player A is better than player B because they average more points.

[GOBB]

Westbrook was a good back early on......look at his YPC, seriously I still don't even know why you keep throwing his name out there.

Tiki is your only hope, your hanging on to him like a freaking dingle berry.

For every Tiki there's a Eric Metcalf type of player.......so there's that argument, it goes both ways.

Oh, btw hows that Cardinal argument going. :oldlol: BANG! that one made me laugh......did you do the math yet.

1. All the things you diss Reggie Bush on the same was said about Brian Westbrook. Westbrook didnt prove he could be an every down RB after 2yrs in Philly. He didnt prove he could handle the load. His stats/production was not better than Reggie Bushs first 2yrs. You keep hanging on YARDS PER CARRY for some odd reason. Thats your weak defense.

You cant refute this...

Reggie Bush had a better rookie and 2nd year in the NFL than Brian Westbrook did as a rookie and 2nd year player.

"But but ypc says otherwise"

:oldlol:

Notice you didnt address nothing else in my prior post...just the Cards run D.

[TMac&Luther]

Let me repeat myself.

There are too many variables for someone to judge things solely on stats. Did you look at situations/other teams rushing offense/ yards per carry??

No, because you're a simple person. The kind of guy that would say Player A is better than player B because they average more points.

Okay buddy........went back again and did the math for every YPC on every player on every carry.........guess what the total YPC were in every game on every carry.......when your hero Wilson was out.

3.9..........geuss what your season run defense average is........3.9

geuss who was wrong (because there is no way in hell you can argue YPC)....you and Gobb.

[TMac&Luther]

1. All the things you diss Reggie Bush on the same was said about Brian Westbrook. Westbrook didnt prove he could be an every down RB after 2yrs in Philly. He didnt prove he could handle the load. His stats/production was not better than Reggie Bushs first 2yrs. You keep hanging on YARDS PER CARRY for some odd reason. Thats your weak defense.

You cant refute this...

Reggie Bush had a better rookie and 2nd year in the NFL than Brian Westbrook did as a rookie and 2nd year player.

"But but ypc says otherwise"

:oldlol:

Notice you didnt address nothing else in my prior post...just the Cards run D.

actually most of my criticism has been on Bush's sorry YPC and his lack of explosive plays..(where you get a good YPC from, especially when your not a power back)..how many times have I mentioned that he doesn't have a running play over 22 yards.......where the f*ck have you been, seriously you need to get your head checked.

[TMac&Luther]

statman = full fledge Arizona fan. He sees the team and most Arizona based teams than you and me. I'd like to think he has a better eye.

Now your just pissing me off, because now your just showing me that your nothing, but a ****ing hypocrite.

Remember when we had our little discussion about how crappy Houston's Oline was and I even told you they weren't that good at run blocking (a line that I've watched take every snap for 6 years) when I told you D. Davis made due.......and you called me a dumbass and said I didn't even now what I was talking about (regarding my own f*cking line)

You can't have it both ways..........but of course, when it comes to you and your infinite football knowledge (right) you feel like you can..........what a f*cking hypocrite.

[GOBB]

Now your just pissing me off, because now your just showing me that your nothing, but a ****ing hypocrite.

Remember when we had our little discussion about how crappy Houston's Oline was and I even told you they weren't that good at run blocking (a line that I've watched take every snap for 6 years) when I told you D. Davis made due.......and you called me a dumbass

You can't have it both ways..........but of course, when it comes to you and your infinite football knowledge (right) you feel like you can..........what a f*cking hypocrite.

Because you're exagerrating to help your position. Houston OL (run blocking) was not crappy when D.Davis rushed for over 1,000yds.

[TMac&Luther]

Because you're exagerrating to help your position. Houston OL (run blocking) was not crappy when D.Davis rushed for over 1,000yds.

It wasn't great either.....D. Davis was a excellent back that had excellent vision (probably some of the best vision in the entire game, because he wasn't a speed guy.....he saw a crease and hit it.)

Also you do realize NOLA's Oline blocked for McCallister when he went over a 1,000 last year coming right off a knee injury....does that mean they don't suck either.

Regardless your still just a dumb hypocrite who has made every excuse under the sun for a broke azz Eric Metcalf, who's going to comeback with some dumbass response.

I mean c'mon if your not a hypocrite, it's my line and I'm the one that watched them play.....right.....:sleeping

[GOBB]

It wasn't great either[/qwuote]

I never said it was great. I said it wasnt crappy like you TRIED to make it out to be. And you cant list me Rbs who ran behind legit bad/crappy OLs and were successful. You've never done it. Another thing i asked you failed to do after I proven the 3 examples you used as being WRONG.

You exagerrated. I didnt. Period.

[QUOTE].....D. Davis was a excellent back that had excellent vision (probably some of the best vision in the entire game, because he wasn't a speed guy.....he saw a crease and hit it.)

I never shytted on his as a runner. He was solid and a physical RB. But he didnt run behind a crappy/bad OL. Sorry.


Also you do realize NOLA's Oline blocked for McCallister when he went over a 1,000 last year coming right off a knee injury....does that mean they don't suck either.

Saints OL blocked better last year than this year.

Duece 3.8ypc this season before going down in a game and ending his season.

The OL's play regressed this season. And there are in no way shape or form responsible for Reggie Bush's weaknesses which also contributes to his overall rushing the football. I've never ONCE passed all the blame on the OL. Bush is at fault just as much. Even if the OL didnt regress and run blocked like they did last year? Bush woulkdnt put up great rushing stats. I'd say he would be more likely to rush over 1000yds but beyond? No. He was on pace for 700-800yds rushing at the most this year. Its not far fetched to assume if the OL did a better job he could duplicate or come close to what Duece did last year (1057yds). But watching him he still has room for improvement to be a RB capable of rushing for 1200yds. But he could have atleast tapped over 1000yds even if it was 1008yds this season had the OL did a better job. And if so it wouldnt have masked or hid the WEAKNESSES Bush would have had. And I would be the first to highlight that.



I mean c'mon if your not a hypocrite, it's my line and I'm the one that watched them play.....right.....:sleeping

statman can be biased but he isnt overly bias nor unreasonable with his assessment. You've proven you're stubborn, close minded, ignorant, used weak and often bad logic and displayed signs of being a dumbass in this thread. You've replied a lot as have I. So it was EASY for me to simply brush off your evaluating of your own team for someone I feel could give a real assessment without any nonsense and no agenda. Statman gains nothing from this argument whatsoever unlike you? You want to prove Bush sucks and wont be a good RB in the NFL. You're mindset is stuck on that...so you're not gonna think things rationally, reasonably here. You use YARDS PER CARRY as your only measuring stick for how good or bad a RB is. Only because Bush ypc is low so that gives you something to milk.

You cant sit there and say I'm the opposite because I havent said anything outraegeous, extreme to support my position. My point is Reggie Bush hasnt lived up to the hype, the expectations and most likely never will e that decorated HOF bound RB he was said to be before getting drafted. However that doesnt he cant be a good RB down the road if he improves upon his weaknesses. That doesnt mean he cant be considered one of the top RBs in the game down the road. The POTENTIAL for that to happen is evident and there is a chance he never amounts to anything more than a pass catching threat in a system where 2 RBs split carries (Julius Jones/Marion Barber) and Rush role rushing is limited more than his recieving usage/ability. I've never denied Bush could fail to succeed. NEVER. You cant find that in this thread because it doesnt exist. But I did say Bush has enough time to be a good RB and better than you or anyone who runs in taking shots or saying "he sucks" will give him. He has the talent and his talent is why I often use Tiki/B.West because they are similar in styles both running and recieving and all 3 have had the same story, critics. Tiki Barber took time to be the RB he was last season. Brian Westbrook took time to be the RB you see today. Neither impacted nor made noise early in thier careers...they improved and answered the critics (like you) questions.

Will Reggie Bush? To be continued. Lets wait and see...I think he will. You think he wont. Neither of us is right. To deny that is moronic and I've done a spectacular job displaying it. A thing of beauty. Sorry if you cant handle that.

Enjoy Mario Williams. Because he too has room for improvement and TIME to be the player he was said to be as the #1 overall pick which as of today he's not. But I'm not knocking him for not being a bigger, stronger Julius Peppers. I give props for having a better season than his rookie year. I could easily pull one of your ANTICS and ignore his season and say BUT HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AN IMPACT DEFENSIVE PLAYER!! DPOY!!! A FORCE TO BE WRECKON WITH...HE'S NOT SO THEREFORE HE AINT THAT GREAT CUZ HE DIDNT LIVE UP TO THE HYPE!!!!!! WHATS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MARION WILLIAMS AND TRENT COLE TAKEN IN THE 4TH ROUND???? HOW ABOUT AARON SCHOBEL??? MARIO AINT EVEN FLAT OUT BETTER THAN THOSE TWO!! HE'S SUPPOSED TO BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! YESSSSS HE IS!!! :rolleyes:

[Doomsday Dallas]

Will Reggie Bush? To be continued. Lets wait and see...I think he will. You think he wont. Neither of us is right.

Well $hit negro,... That's all you had to say.

[TMac&Luther]

Dude, if you don't think Mario has been a force to be reckon with you haven't been watching..........9 sacks in 5 games is beastly.

but oh, well I'm willing to bury the hatchet, because really this has gotten out of control............I'm pretty sure this thread will be bumped at the end of the next season and we'll pick up where we left off.

[statman32]

Since you love ypc so much ill show you this. Here are the rushers for the last 5 Cardinal opponents that got 8 or more carries. I'm excluding the Detroit game because Wilson played in the 1st half and that's when all the damage was done.

Cincy

Watson 5 ypc
Season average 4.4

Johnson 3.1 ypc
Season average 2.9

San Fran

Gore 5.5 ypc
Season average 4.3

Browns

Lewis 3.9 ypc
Season average 4.3

Hawks

Alexander 3.8 ypc
Season average 3.3

Morris 2.8 ypc
Season average 4.4

Saints

Stecker 4.3 ypc
Season average 3.9

5/7 guys posted a better ypc than there season average. What does that say? The Cards have a below average rushing defense without Wilson.

So don't try and call me out for not knowing my own team. Why I would hate on them to boost my argument for Bush is retarded? I don't even like Bush since I'm a ASU fan. I'm just tired of morons trying to say he sucks and is already a bust two years into his career.

[dgbigballer9329]

GOBB,

This thread is too long to address every point and I will actually admit not really remembering Tiki's running style as a rookie, nor Westbrook's.

But I don't agree with that being how Bush can improve. Reggie Bush is already 203 pounds. When he came to USC, he was in the low 180's. He has already done a tremendous amount of weight-room work to get as ripped as he is now. He is jacked all over. I doubt he is going to gain any more weight/get stronger in a way that will help his game. He has a naturally thin frame and has already put a lot of weight on it. 203 pounds is good enough size for a running back, right around what Westbrook and Barber were/are. To tell you the truth -- I think Westbrook always had the ability, but had to prove it to Andy and the coaching staff.

It is not strength that is holding him back right now. It is his running style. He has run soft and impatiently since the day he stepped foot in the pros. In the NFL he does not show good patience. He will neglect burrowing into the hole and fall at linemen's ankles. I can't say for sure if Tiki or Westbrook did or not in their formulative years. But Reggie is already getting more of a chance than either did in their younger years.

He has to improve what is generally something that is all instinctual. Most running backs have their running instincts their whole lives. He certainly has great physical tools. And I wouldn't be SHOCKED if he became a decent back. But I don't think he has the skills to excel as a go-to ball-carrier like he does as a receiver where he can be put in space all game. You can feel free to disagree and combat with many reasons why Bush hasn't been successful thus far -- but I don't think he has it in him to be a great runner in the NFL.

[TMac&Luther]

Since you love ypc so much ill show you this. Here are the rushers for the last 5 Cardinal opponents that got 8 or more carries. I'm excluding the Detroit game because Wilson played in the 1st half and that's when all the damage was done.

Cincy

Watson 5 ypc
Season average 4.4

Johnson 3.1 ypc
Season average 2.9

San Fran

Gore 5.5 ypc
Season average 4.3

Browns

Lewis 3.9 ypc
Season average 4.3

Hawks

Alexander 3.8 ypc
Season average 3.3

Morris 2.8 ypc
Season average 4.4

Saints

Stecker 4.3 ypc
Season average 3.9

5/7 guys posted a better ypc than there season average. What does that say? The Cards have a below average rushing defense without Wilson.

So don't try and call me out for not knowing my own team. Why I would hate on them to boost my argument for Bush is retarded? I don't even like Bush since I'm a ASU fan. I'm just tired of morons trying to say he sucks and is already a bust two years into his career.

Your whole entire logic and post is flawed.....teams don't judge run defenses on if Player A gets 8 or more carries.......that would be a crap stat.

run defenses are judged on the total amount of team carries........and your defense hasn't changed, quit trying to spin crap, because I proved your defense hasn't changed one bit and totally blew your misinformed argument about your own team out of the water.

[statman32]

Your whole entire logic and post is flawed.....teams don't judge run defenses on if Player A gets 8 or more carries.......that would be a crap stat.

run defenses are judged on the total amount of team carries........and your defense hasn't changed, quit stopping to spin crap, because I proved your defense hasn't changed one bit and totally blew your misinformed argument about your own team out of the water.
What the **** are you talking about? You want me to name the other running backs that got 2-3 carries? Doesnt change anything. All you did was include sacks to the teams ypc which is not a legit way of judging teams run defenss.

[dgbigballer9329]

TMac&Luther

Sorry but I couldn't read this in its entirety pretty much because you were writing too much.

[TMac&Luther]

What the **** are you talking about? You want me to name the other running backs that got 2-3 carries? Doesnt change anything. All you did was include sacks to the teams ypc which is not a legit way of judging teams run defenss.

Let me put this in layman's terms that you might understand....okay.

run defense stats are judged by total team carries......are you still following me....good. If you knock off every back that got less then 8 carries your taking away every third down back out of the entire league....and the only way to get a accurate standing on your teams real run D would be to go to every game before Wilson got injured and take away all those carries.......are you still keeping up or do I have to slow down.......then after you did all of that, we would have to go to all the other 31 teams and then take away every "less than 8" ball carrier off their total team's run performance, because we would have to unspin all the crap you twisted together in a attempt to drop your team's run defense performance and drop their's as well, then we would end up about where we started.

What I'm saying is you just created a B.S. stat that doesn't exist.

P.S. sacks don't count against rushing yards..........they count against passing yards! , anybody that follows the NFL would know that. So there goes that B.S. argument as well.........but then again I'm the idiot that has no idea about football and can't hold my weight in a football debate. :rolleyes:

[statman32]

Obviously I know that sacks aren't included in a teams rushing totals but I thought YOU included them because the numbers looked different/flawed when I was checking them on my phone. Thing is a quarterbacks rushing totals are included and imo they should not be included in this discussion because we were talking about how running backs fare against the Cards.

Reason why I brought up the 8 carries or more guys when looking at players yards per carry is because its flawed to compare a single game ypc number to there season average due to the fact they only ran the ball a couple times..

But here's some more facts since you didn't want to admit that those stats hold any weight.

Cards held the Steelers/Bucs below there season average for ypc.. These are the 2 top rushing attacks the Cardinals faced this season where talking about. They also held the Seahawks/Redskins below there season ypc with Wilson playing. Carolina had a better ypc than usual because Williams had a meaningless 60+ run at the end of the game which you wouldn't factor into your stats because you didn't watch that game. They did allow the Ravens and Rams to have a better ypc than usual though.

Without Wilson the Cards have faced weaker rushing teams and held the Browns to .2 lower than there season ypc average and the Seahawks again. They did however let the Saints/49ers rush for more than there season average ypc.

All other games with or without Wilson they held the other team to there season average so I didn't include them. I also didn't include the Detroit game even though they did all there damage in the 1st half with Wilson playing

Point is you can compare the oppenent ypc with Wilson and without Wilson but it won't matter unless you compare the stats to what each individual team does on the season.. And its a fact that the Cards faced tougher rushing attacks early in the season with Wilson out there and they held the 2 toughest teams in check with him.. If they faced them without him no way do they stop them like they did.

But hey even I can admit stats don't tell the whole story. Like I said early there are way too many variables to do that. You have to actually watch the games which you haven't. But how cute you think that you know more about my team because you looked at some numbers..

Once again I have no reason to hate on my team to stick up for Bush. I don't even like the guy but retards like you shouldn't be saying that he sucks and won't ever amount to nothing after only playing two years in the league. Too many times have players proven that theory wrong.

Its funny that I never saw you talking football until Mario had that big game. Then you come out and declare yourself a NFL expert ala Glove20. GTFO

[-primetime-]

GOBB,

This thread is too long to address every point and I will actually admit not really remembering Tiki's running style as a rookie, nor Westbrook's.

But I don't agree with that being how Bush can improve. Reggie Bush is already 203 pounds. When he came to USC, he was in the low 180's. He has already done a tremendous amount of weight-room work to get as ripped as he is now. He is jacked all over. I doubt he is going to gain any more weight/get stronger in a way that will help his game. He has a naturally thin frame and has already put a lot of weight on it. 203 pounds is good enough size for a running back, right around what Westbrook and Barber were/are. To tell you the truth -- I think Westbrook always had the ability, but had to prove it to Andy and the coaching staff.

It is not strength that is holding him back right now. It is his running style. He has run soft and impatiently since the day he stepped foot in the pros. In the NFL he does not show good patience. He will neglect burrowing into the hole and fall at linemen's ankles. I can't say for sure if Tiki or Westbrook did or not in their formulative years. But Reggie is already getting more of a chance than either did in their younger years.

He has to improve what is generally something that is all instinctual. Most running backs have their running instincts their whole lives. He certainly has great physical tools. And I wouldn't be SHOCKED if he became a decent back. But I don't think he has the skills to excel as a go-to ball-carrier like he does as a receiver where he can be put in space all game. You can feel free to disagree and combat with many reasons why Bush hasn't been successful thus far -- but I don't think he has it in him to be a great runner in the NFL.
:bowdown:

man knows what he is talking about....

[statman32]

Lmao!

Everyone notice how this Tmac/luther guy edits all of his posts? Dude must not be too sure of what he's actually typing

[-primetime-]

Lmao!

Everyone notice how this Tmac/luther guy edits all of his posts? Dude must not be too sure of what he's actually typing
Lmao!!!

anyone notice how stat is all on Gobbs nuts???




Mario > Bush

end thread

[statman32]

Lmao!!!

anyone notice how stat is all on Gobbs nuts???




Mario > Bush

end thread
Since you didn't answer this earlier ill repeat myself.

So because I agree with Gobb on this subject or others that means I'm on his nuts? I agree with plenty of other people on here but I don't see you telling me I'm on there nuts. I think you've even agreed with me on something before.. Why you on my nuts?

GTFO the only reason you're saying that is because you're repeating what other trolls have said in the past. Can't even think for yourself. Gotta come up with the same lame comeback every time.

[GOBB]

GOBB,

This thread is too long to address every point and I will actually admit not really remembering Tiki's running style as a rookie, nor Westbrook's.

But I don't agree with that being how Bush can improve. Reggie Bush is already 203 pounds. When he came to USC, he was in the low 180's. He has already done a tremendous amount of weight-room work to get as ripped as he is now. He is jacked all over. I doubt he is going to gain any more weight/get stronger in a way that will help his game. He has a naturally thin frame and has already put a lot of weight on it. 203 pounds is good enough size for a running back, right around what Westbrook and Barber were/are. To tell you the truth -- I think Westbrook always had the ability, but had to prove it to Andy and the coaching staff.

It is not strength that is holding him back right now. It is his running style. He has run soft and impatiently since the day he stepped foot in the pros. In the NFL he does not show good patience. He will neglect burrowing into the hole and fall at linemen's ankles. I can't say for sure if Tiki or Westbrook did or not in their formulative years. But Reggie is already getting more of a chance than either did in their younger years.

He has to improve what is generally something that is all instinctual. Most running backs have their running instincts their whole lives. He certainly has great physical tools. And I wouldn't be SHOCKED if he became a decent back. But I don't think he has the skills to excel as a go-to ball-carrier like he does as a receiver where he can be put in space all game. You can feel free to disagree and combat with many reasons why Bush hasn't been successful thus far -- but I don't think he has it in him to be a great runner in the NFL.

Fair enough....good post. I agree with most of it. :cheers:

[TMac&Luther]

Its funny that I never saw you talking football until Mario had that big game. Then you come out and declare yourself a NFL expert ala Glove20. GTFO

First of all it was funny how all of a sudden you know sacks don't count against rushing yards now.........nice job at trying to explain that, we all know that was B.S.

Second I didn't just take everyone's YPC and average them...I first added EVERYONE'S yards on the day and got a total.........I then added every total carry on the day and got another total.....that gave me a total rushing yards number and then a number of team carries total......I then took the total rushing yards number and divided it by the total number of carries to get a clean and accurate total team YPC average...........just like the league does WITH EVERY TEAM.

last, I've talked football on here plenty of times, but do most of my football discusion on something called FOOTBALL MESSAGE BOARDS.

You can go to any AFC South team message board and I'm a member there under a different name, obviously. Basketball is my second favorite sport and the gap is pretty big between #1 and #2.

P.S..... I never called myself a "football expert" I just follow the game alot more and know alot about each individual team in the NFL.........unlike the NBA where I mostly just know my team inside and out and a few others.



Oh yeah...


Lmao!

Everyone notice how this Tmac/luther guy edits all of his posts? Dude must not be too sure of what he's actually typing

I suffer from dyslexia Asshole.......nice job at pointing that out. I have to read my own post over and over before I catch every typo, editing almost every post in the process.

[TMac&Luther]

Bump for the mega bust that is Reggie Bush.........

Oh P.S.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG8sEfHUdE8&feature=related

and

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80cfa5bf

Reggie Bush can suck it.

[IlliniFan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8aRh2WUz18

Oh yeah, this guy is awful.

[TMac&Luther]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8aRh2WUz18

Oh yeah, this guy is awful.

Umm.........thanks for showing how worthless Reggie is??? (confused by your post I guess you agree with me, that Bush is special team player drafted #2 ovrl. lol what the hell were the Saints thinking. They could've had MJD.) It's true teams don't draft special team players #2 ovrl....hell we got Jacoby in the third round and he gives us the same value that the bust Bush does. Again thanks for finding the video that shows Reggie is nothing, but a special teams player.

[TMac&Luther]

Again Bush is a absolute Bust!.....

[Real Men Wear Green]

He's a Bargnani-level bust. He's still an impact player, but nowhere near what you expect for a top-3 pick. But he gets too many TDs to be qualified as "worthless."

[mlh1981]

Sure it's already been mentioned somewhere in this thread, but forget about Bush for a second, and look back at all the big time participants in the famous USC/Texas title game, the one in which was supposed to produce all the future NFL superstars? Most/all have been disappointments.

[Real Men Wear Green]

True, but I don't think it's wise to call einart and Young deadbeats yet, they're still young for QBs and may pan out. Bush as an RB, unfortunately, is a different story...this is probably all he'll be, a guy that gives two highlights a game and nothing else, never to be a great runner. And it's all mental, if he just hit holes and accepted 3-4 yard gains he could have been everything we thought.

[TMac&Luther]

TEXANS HAVE SOMETHING EVEN BETTER THAN BUSH
Posted by Mike Florio on December 2, 2008, 9:18 a.m. EST
When folks discuss the wise-in-hindsight decision of the Houston Texans to pass on running back Reggie Bush, the player whose name always gets mentioned is defensive end Marion Williams.

The more appropriate guy to invoke is Steve Slaton. Because he’s looking to be far better than Bush.

Two years ago, a scout told me after watching practice at West Virginia University that the then-sophomore Slaton likely will be at the next level a poor-man’s version of the then-Saints rookie Bush.

Last year, however, Slaton’s stock fell. I attended at least five WVU home games and watched the rest of them on television, and it appeared that Slaton had become tentative, possibly fearful that he’d suffer a Michael Bush-style injury and squander his NFL payday.

As a result of a so-so final season, Slaton slid to bottom of the third round. And the team that passed on Bush with the No. 1 overall pick in 2006 grabbed Slaton with selection No. 89 in 2008.

Already, Slaton has become the superior NFL running back.

In Week Thirteen, Bush had three carries for zero yards, five receptions for 32, and two punt returns for minus-16.

Slaton, on Monday night against the Jags, carried 21 times for 130 yards and two touchdowns. He also caught two passes for 52 yards, one of which nearly resulted in another score.

The reality? Bush and his 3-point-something yards-per-carry average will continue to be a glorified third-down back. Slaton is blossoming into the every-down option that no one every dreamed he’d be at this level.

Otherwise, he would have been picked a lot higher, even in a draft class full of good tailbacks.


http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/12/02/texans-have-something-even-better-than-bush/

For a player that was advertised as "explosive and a big play player" Bush has failed. Steve Slaton this year alone already has more explosive runs than Bush has had in his entire career. Bush only has 6 career runs over 20 yards (Slaton already has 10). Bush's career long run is only 29 yards and has zero carries that went longer than 40 yards (Slaton already has 3 40+ yard carries)

For his career, Bush has 1440 yards (3.6 ypc average) and 12 rushing TDs
Slaton already has 8 rushing TDs in his rookie season and is 2nd in ypc in the entire NFL

[GOBB]

The top 3 picks are busts.

Slaton has been pretty good during his rookie campaign. Hopefully he keeps it up next season when he wont be the new kid on the block. I wouldnt say Slaton is better than Bush. I'd take Bush over him. But the margin isnt that far apart as say if we flashed back in time when Bush was coming out of college. If you compared the two then the gap would have been said to be not even close.

[Carbine]

If you ask all the defensive coaches in the league who they have to gameplan for the most, Reggie Bush' name comes up in the top 10 on all lists.

Make no mistake, he's not the runner he was suppose to be, but as an overall player he's far from a bust.

He's dangerous in the return game, in space, and now he's scoring touchdowns. So he doesn't run for 1200 yards a season, that doesn't make him a bust. He's a true wild-card, and if defensive coaches believe he's one of the top 10 guys you need to account for, that's good enough for me.

He hasn't lived up to the enormous hype, but he's a very good player.

[TMac&Luther]

The top 3 picks are busts.

Slaton has been pretty good during his rookie campaign. Hopefully he keeps it up next season when he wont be the new kid on the block. I wouldnt say Slaton is better than Bush. I'd take Bush over him. But the margin isnt that far apart as say if we flashed back in time when Bush was coming out of college. If you compared the two then the gap would have been said to be not even close.

Which top three picks?

Mario leads all AFC DEs in Sacks and is tied for #2 in the entire NFL........he's going to the probowl this year.

Also you'd take Bush who already has multiple knee injuries over a back who's second in the entire NFL in YPC, 10th in rushing yards, 10th in TDs, and is the 2nd most explosive runningback (behind only Adrian Peterson) in the NFL.