100 Greatest Hip-Hop Artist of All-Time (According to ISH)

[L.Kizzle]

So, if y'all wanna continue to make this a serious thread, let's get it in. This can be fun yet informing at the same time with healthy (and from time to time heated) discussions.

We will come up with a group of artist, and using the criteria below, can get a feeling and than go on from there.


On a scale of 1-10
Impact: Impact they had on hip-hop and in other areas.
Lyrics: Are they great with words, were they deep in there songs.
Flow: Was their flow smooth, were they a good freestyle rapper?
Sales: How did they impact the charts.
Fame: How well known are they in the world of hip-hop; outside hip-hop?
-----
Overall:

How a artist will be chosen:

Can be a solo rapper, duo or a group.

Some artist were a part of a group and and maybe later on went solo (Ice Cube.) So O'Shea can be voted in as a solo artist or as part of the NWA, or hell even the Westside Connection.

For a guy like Andre 3000, he's only eligible as a group member of OutKast, so if you like 3-Stacks, than he will have to go in as a member of the duo OutKast.

I think everything else is self explanatory, let's get it.

[Alamo]

Kobe

[Dictator]

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltkqc4GxcI1qineolo1_500.gif

[B-Low]

#1: Black Skab

[Dictator]

#2 lil shitstain

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/482/shortyshitstain.jpg

[alwaysunny]

#3 Supa Hot Fire

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/293220/thumbs/r-RAP-BATTLE-PARODY-large570.jpg

[BoogieWoogieMan]

#4 Bangs

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzmdp7bMSq1qc1jg4o1_400.gif

:bowdown:

[Lamar Doom]

#5

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41PR03JWA4L._SL500_AA300_.jpghttp://www.thoughts.com/Media/Photos2/musicequalzorgasm/163173880_1265230643.jpg

Oy It's So Humid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at8hZpXyykM)

[Jackass18]

#6

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/scubastza/Blog%20Stuff/envy-vs-eli-porter-i-really-mean-it.jpg

[B-Low]

#7, 8, 9, 10 and 11

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8AllFcC7K5E/Tlzs7luQ7QI/AAAAAAAAADE/1SBZ5QUppJY/Chappelle%252527s%252520Show%252520-%252520Making%252520the%252520Band%252520-%252520Dylan01.gif

[Ass Dan]

#12 - T Baby

http://joonbug.com/media/BV4GDNPi9zt/its-so-cold-in-the-djpg-c000cb3d6f152d10.jpg

[Lamar Doom]

#13 Shawn Brown as the Rappin Duke (here's where 90% of you figure out what Biggie was talking about)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-MFwZn5_PpCM/TkWf35hhRuI/AAAAAAAAAA4/q5eqrto00Es/s200/Shawn+Brown.jpg


Rappin Duke (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s75pC_DI0ls)

[pauk]

#1

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/reverb/vanillaiceice.jpg

:bowdown:

[LockoutOver11]

15. 50 tyson

[Cowboy Thunder]

16.

Crunchy Black

http://www.memphisflyer.com/binary/8639/p._27_local_beat_1.jpg

[Lamar Doom]

#1 Vanilla Ice

:bowdown:


this is the ass hole who doesn't notice all the previous submissions have been numbered #1 - #13


15. 50 tyson


and this is the ass hole who couldn't provide a picture or link

[Lamar Doom]

#17 MC Gusto, Dead Mike, and Stab Master Arson of CB4

http://ugw.ru/photo/CB4_06.jpg
http://content8.flixster.com/question/59/50/90/5950902_std.jpg


Straight Outta Locash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKMggf-Pupw)

you can't contain the science

[Lamar Doom]

#18 Ice Cold, Tasty Taste, and Tone Def of NWH (Ni**as With Hats)


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hMprdV6x28c/RZlBQ0PwejI/AAAAAAAAAAU/gThjrVQe_0M/s320/fear1.jpghttp://www.sonypictures.com/groups/us/documents/image/pr1028481.jpg


My Peanuts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sH9lYCMf1w)

I'm Only Human (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Yjd1hLJSKg)

"when you wipe do you look at the tissue? most folks do it aint even an issue"

Fire.

[kileer7]

#4 Bangs

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzmdp7bMSq1qc1jg4o1_400.gif


:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:

[kNIOKAS]

#19
http://image.internetautoguide.com/f/auto-news/2010-kia-soul-releases-an-all-new-hamster-rap-tv-commercial-youtube-video/27867875/2010-kia-soul-hamster-rap-tv-commercial.jpg

[ROCSteady]

I'd be down. My knowledge on the game is up there w y'all

[Dictator]

#20 Nicki mInaj

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lu0h88qlMl1qamz83o1_500.gif

[BoogieWoogieMan]

#21 Jackie Chen

http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww345/efad1/10504805.jpg

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=236407

[B-Low]

#22: John Cena

http://www.notsam.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/word-life.jpg

[L.Kizzle]

What the hell is this ... :biggums:

[-p.tiddy-]

I do think it would be fun to do a real one, like the ISH top 100 bball players...that was fun

I'm down...I think I have extremely good knowledge for everything pre 2000...yes I do, I listened to ALL OF IT

and average knowledge for everything after



and yeah my #1 is

http://jakedavis.typepad.com/jakedavis/images/2008/05/26/biggie.jpg



we need at least 20 posters to make it worth it though...less and the list wouldn't be that realistic

[-p.tiddy-]

I'm Only Human (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Yjd1hLJSKg)

"when you wipe do you look at the tissue? most folks do it aint even an issue"

Fire.

:oldlol:

[L.Kizzle]

I do think it would be fun to do a real one, like the ISH top 100 bball players...that was fun

I'm down...I think I have extremely good knowledge for everything pre 2000...yes I do, I listened to ALL OF IT

and average knowledge for everything after



and yeah my #1 is

http://jakedavis.typepad.com/jakedavis/images/2008/05/26/biggie.jpg



we need at least 20 posters to make it worth it though...less and the list wouldn't be that realistic
Yeah, I think we can get enough in here.

[CelticBaller]

#13

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/reverb/vanillaiceice.jpg

:bowdown:
fixed
dont mess up the order :no:

[East_Stone_Ya]

#26 Superwolf

http://violinonline.ru/img/ab/ab7/Super_Wolf_Can_Do_It_Old_School_Rap_Classic.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLEg49wUSNM

[L.Kizzle]

kissel make ur top 25 rite now
Top 25 in no order:


NaS
Public Enemy
NWA
Outkast
Queen Latifah
2Pac
Notorious B.I.G.
Emenim
Big Daddy Kane
Eric B. & Rakim
LL Cool J (take that ace23)
Wu Tang Clan
Ice Cube
Scarface
Geto Boyz
Beastie Boys
Boogie Down Productions
Run-D.M.C.
Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five
A Tribe Called Quest
Salt-N-Pepa
Ice T
J-Zee
Kool Moe Dee
EPMD
Slick Rick


OF course this might change, I just did this off the top of the dome.

[Gundress]

I came in this thread and I thought it would be serious mfer but this shit is a joke thread,,,these mfer won't take seriously anyway so **** this thread ass n!gga mfer.

[L.Kizzle]

I came in this thread and I thought it would be serious mfer but this shit is a joke thread,,,these mfer won't take seriously anyway so **** this thread ass n!gga mfer.
Hey MFER, is was supposed to be serious. It can still be serious, give some input.

[L.Kizzle]

:lebronamazed:

that is verry absurd. u outdid urself
What is your top 25?

[ROCSteady]

Top 25 in no order:


NaS
Public Enemy
NWA
Outkast
Queen Latifah
2Pac
Notorious B.I.G.
Emenim
Big Daddy Kane
Eric B. & Rakim
LL Cool J (take that ace23)
Wu Tang Clan
Ice Cube
Scarface
Geto Boyz
Beastie Boys
Boogie Down Productions
Run-D.M.C.
Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five
A Tribe Called Quest
Salt-N-Pepa
Ice T
J-Zee
Kool Moe Dee
EPMD
Slick Rick


OF course this might change, I just did this off the top of the dome.

The thread is 100 GREATEST, not 25 most historic or influential. The bolded are kinda wack way too often for this list. We talking best of the best, not just name recognition.

Also, if u have a min, can u link me to your favorite Kool Moe Dee, A Tribe Called Quest and Boogie Down Productions joints? Although I'm really not very and have never been big on KRS-One

[L.Kizzle]

The thread is 100 GREATEST, not 25 most historic or influential. The bolded are kinda wack way too often for this list. We talking best of the best, not just name recognition.

Also, if u have a min, can u link me to your favorite Kool Moe Dee, A Tribe Called Quest and Boogie Down Productions joints? Although I'm really not very and have never been big on KRS-One
How are they wack? Please explain?

Or do you just want a group of artist post 2000?

[RaininTwos]

These type of threads suck because everyone here is god damn lazy. No one wants to write shit. No one wants to explain why they have each rapper at a certain spot but I'll do it through 25.

[ROCSteady]

How are they wack? Please explain?

Or do you just want a group of artist post 2000?

No, not even. Just don't really like the style and tone of certain artists that people hold in high esteem as it pertains to the entire spectrum and history of rap/hip-hop.

Personal opinion. Who the **** rolls around bumpin Queen Latifah, Salt-n-Pepa or Beastie Boys albums??

These styles just seem very outdated and chessy now

[L.Kizzle]

No, not even. Just don't really like the style and tone of certain artists that people hold in high esteem as it pertains to the entire spectrum and history of rap/hip-hop.

Personal opinion. Who the **** rolls around bumpin Queen Latifah, Salt-n-Pepa or Beastie Boys albums??

These styles just seem very outdated and chessy now
What does that have to do with anything. They were great in their time. Like I said, it sounds lie you just want a list post 2000 cause you just sated cats back in 1988 are wack now.

Of course a Salt-N-Pepa album released in 1987 would sound dated, it was released 25 years ago. A 2Pac album released in 1991 sounds dated too.

I'm not sure where you're goin with this, should we just delete artist pre 2000 or something?

[ROCSteady]

What does that have to do with anything. They were great in their time. Like I said, it sounds lie you just want a list post 2000 cause you just sated cats back in 1988 are wack now.

Of course a Salt-N-Pepa album released in 1987 would sound dated, it was released 25 years ago. A 2Pac album released in 1991 sounds dated too.

I'm not sure where you're goin with this, should we just delete artist pre 2000 or something?

Wow, you're reaching. NO. Not pre 2000, it's not like I just started listening to rap when in fact I've been a die-hard fan of the flow since I was in elementary school. :no:

People just have their personal tastes and I like a little more edge. A lot of great rap music,2pac and Wu-Tang for example, doesn't sound it's age and still sounds fresh. A lot of rap from before the '90s has just aged terribly, unlike otehr genres of music

Where I'm going with this is that I just don't get down with stuff that sounds overly pop-ish or rudimentary, stylistically. Internal rhyme schemes is where it's at. A lot can be done with the medium and isn't exemplified by the artists I brought up.

[L.Kizzle]

Wow, you're reaching. NO. Not pre 2000, it's not like I just started listening to rap when in fact I've been a die-hard fan of the flow since I was in elementary school. :no:

People just have their personal tastes and I like a little more edge. A lot of great rap music,2pac and Wu-Tang for example, doesn't sound it's age and still sounds fresh. A lot of rap from before the '90s has just aged terribly, unlike otehr genres of music

Where I'm going with this is that I just don't get down with stuff that sounds overly pop-ish or rudimentary, stylistically. A lot can be done with the medium and isn't exemplified by the artists I brought up.
I'm not reaching, you said they were wack, all the groups you highlights peaked in the late 80s or early 90s.

And hip-hop hasn't changes since the late 90s, that's why it seems some stuff from the 90s sounds fresh. But that a whole different topic.

Also you're telling me 36 Chambers doesn't sound dated? Illmatic ... all that shit sounds dated. They're great albums, but they sound dated.

[Dictator]

Alright here's some top 10 canidates: 2pac, nas, jayz, biggie, wu tang, eminem, nwa,

[alwaysunny]

These type of threads suck because everyone here is god damn lazy. No one wants to write shit. No one wants to explain why they have each rapper at a certain spot but I'll do it through 25.

Not to mention it's downright confusing. What does 'greatest artists' even mean? Are we judging based on lyrics? Album sales? Most swag? Someone can say Tupac because of his discography and legacy, but another guy will come out and mention some no name rapper saying he's much more lyrical than any of the big name artists. Without a set criteria these type of threads never work out. Even in the GOAT NBA player thread people had trouble ranking players because they couldn't properly mix the individual talent and win success.

[Dictator]

How about this criteria:

(1-10)
Fame:
Lyrics:
Flow:
Freestyle:
Sales:
Overall:

[Dictator]

it's not even about what sounds dated. salt n pepa are not top 100 greatest hip hop artists.


:wtf: :confusedshrug:

[L.Kizzle]

How about this criteria:

(1-10)
Fame:
Lyrics:
Flow:
Freestyle:
Sales:
Overall:
I was gonna list a criteria but it turned into jokes.

And you forgot the most important, impact. Take freestyle off.

[Dictator]

I was gonna list a criteria but it turned into jokes.

And you forgot the most important, impact. Take freestyle off.


Fame and impact is about the same thing though. This thread is still alive lets start for "real".

[L.Kizzle]

it's not even about what sounds dated. salt n pepa are not top 100 greatest hip hop artists.
How come they're not? They were the first major female artist.

[alwaysunny]

Can anyone here even name 100 artists? :lol

[L.Kizzle]

Not to mention it's downright confusing. What does 'greatest artists' even mean? Are we judging based on lyrics? Album sales? Most swag? Someone can say Tupac because of his discography and legacy, but another guy will come out and mention some no name rapper saying he's much more lyrical than any of the big name artists. Without a set criteria these type of threads never work out. Even in the GOAT NBA player thread people had trouble ranking players because they couldn't properly mix the individual talent and win success.
If he's a no name rapper, how cane he be considered the greatest? These list are about having common sense also.

Greatest Artist is all of the above really.

[Dictator]

LKizzle post criteria in the first post.....

Anyway I'll start:

Tupac Shakur
Fame/Impact: 10
Lyrics: 7
Flow: 7
Freestyle: 5
Sales: 9
Overall: (35 out of 50)

[L.Kizzle]

how about their music? does it come even close to what any of the legends you did not put in the top 25 released?
There music was good for it's time, was it not?

I know I missed a ton, it's only room for 25. I have yet to see your top 25 list.

[L.Kizzle]

that doesn't even make sense. 40 is a no name rapper to half of ish, but he is in the top 10.
40 is not a no name rapper. Guy had countless top 10 albums on the POP charts, he's not a no name. Ya boy Kool Keith is a no name to ISH.

[L.Kizzle]

LKizzle post criteria in the first post.....

Anyway I'll start:

Tupac Shakur
Fame/Impact: 10
Lyrics: 7
Flow: 7
Freestyle: 5
Sales: 9
Overall: (35 out of 50)
I think a discussion would do better than a system where you get an overall number.

[L.Kizzle]

okay then better example. tommy wright III is in my top 100, he is def a no name to ish, anyone who knows anything about rap knows him and his greatness though.
Yeah, but underground cats like him, it would be hard to rank. This might be a more mainstream list, cause you could fill this up with underground cats from Memphis, my hometown Houston, The Bay Area, ect.

[RaininTwos]

Not to mention it's downright confusing. What does 'greatest artists' even mean? Are we judging based on lyrics? Album sales? Most swag? Someone can say Tupac because of his discography and legacy, but another guy will come out and mention some no name rapper saying he's much more lyrical than any of the big name artists. Without a set criteria these type of threads never work out. Even in the GOAT NBA player thread people had trouble ranking players because they couldn't properly mix the individual talent and win success.

Yeah exactly. People have to explain where they are coming from and what criteria they are using in order to formulate their lists. You cant just have a shit load of names and numbers and expect people to judge your list in a completely logical fashion.

[alwaysunny]

Yeah, but underground cats like him, it would be hard to rank. This might be a more mainstream list, cause you could fill this up with underground cats from Memphis, my hometown Houston, The Bay Area, ect.

Then the list wouldn't look any different than any of the critics' top 20 list or whatever

[Dictator]

Should start with the top 10 instead of posting no names.

[RaininTwos]

the better idea is to not do this and just actually discuss rap music. i'm making a thread for pluto now.
how does your whack ass threads help anything?

[L.Kizzle]

Then the list wouldn't look any different than any of the critics' top 20 list or whatever
It would look totally different.

If we want a list with Tommy Wright, Kingpin Skinny Pimp, Street Military, Dayton Family, Mac Mall, ect we'd have to create a top 100 underground hip-hop list.

[RaininTwos]

i make threads about the relevant rap and nobody replies, but brehs are so excited about some stupid greatest of all time list.
future is relevant rap???:biggums: :biggums:

hes gonna flop

[ROCSteady]

Jay-Z

(1-10)
Fame:9.5
Lyrics:8
Flow:8.5
Freestyle:8
Sales:9
Overall:43

[alwaysunny]

i make threads about the relevant rap and nobody replies, but brehs are so excited about some stupid greatest of all time list.

Reading L.Kizzle's thread, and Al Thornton's AT THE SAME DAMN TIME

Browsing ISH from my computer, and my phone, AT THE SAME DAMN TIME

Listening to music from my speakers, AND my headphones, AT THE SAME DAMN TIME

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[RaininTwos]

:biggums:

this is the biggest pop album of the year. shit is gonna be winning grammys.
:roll: :roll:

[L.Kizzle]

or we could just go off greatness of music instead of the importance factor. lettuce be reality, skinny pimp made much better music than queen latifah and is a much better rapper.
Damn, you got something against women rappers, lol.

First you make an example with Salt-n-Pepa and now the Queen. :lol

[RaininTwos]

:coleman:
and i put max right next to the jay big and pac. another great that is a no name to ish.

go sit your ass down and think about what you just said

[L.Kizzle]

and i put max right next to the jay big and pac. another great that is a no name to ish.
Max B??

[Dictator]

Jay-Z

(1-10)
Fame:9.5
Lyrics:8
Flow:8.5
Freestyle:8
Sales:9
Overall:43


I'm telling you LKizzle...this way is better. All discussions lead to is arguing about some no names rapper vs a famous one. Maybe we can use numbers and also include a short summary on why they were chosen.

[L.Kizzle]

I'm telling you LKizzle...this way is better. All discussions lead to is arguing about some no names rapper vs a famous one. Maybe we can use numbers and also include a short summary on why they were chosen.
This may work with solo artist, but what about a group like Bone Thugs-n-Harmony or somebody like that?

[Dictator]

This may work with solo artist, but what about a group like Bone Thugs-n-Harmony or somebody like that?


Base their music as a whole.

[L.Kizzle]

Base their music as a whole.
Ok, let's see how this works.

[L.Kizzle]

kissel i just made a thread about the new dungeon family album and you don't even care. wtf.
I see a thread on Future, not Dungeon Family.

[ace23]

Top 25 in no order:


NaS
Public Enemy
NWA
Outkast
Queen Latifah
2Pac
Notorious B.I.G.
Emenim
Big Daddy Kane
Eric B. & Rakim
LL Cool J (take that ace23)
Wu Tang Clan
Ice Cube
Scarface
Geto Boyz
Beastie Boys
Boogie Down Productions
Run-D.M.C.
Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five
A Tribe Called Quest
Salt-N-Pepa
Ice T
J-Zee
Kool Moe Dee
EPMD
Slick Rick


OF course this might change, I just did this off the top of the dome.
Dude, WTF? Do you even listen to rap anymore? :oldlol:

And groups are not rappers.

[Dictator]

Nas
Fame/Impact: 9
Lyrics: 9.5
Flow: 9
Freestyle: 7
Sales: 9
Overall: 43.5

Biggie
Fame/Impact: 9.5
Lyrics: 8.5
Flow: 10
Freestyle: 8.5
Sales: 9
Overall: 45.5

Eminem
Fame/Impact: 9
Lyrics: 8
Flow: 8
Freestyle: 9.5
Sales: 9
Overall: 44

[L.Kizzle]

Dude, WTF? Do you even listen to rap anymore? :oldlol:

And groups are not rappers.
Dude, I created this thread, it's titled "Artist" which can be a group or a rapper.

Yeah, I listen to hip-hop now, anyone from the past few years deserve a top 25 ranking? :coleman:

[WhiteMosɘs]

Yeezy on dis shi t.

[Dictator]

Lil Wayne
Fame/Impact: 10
Lyrics: 4
Flow: 4
Freestyle: 5
Sales: 10
Overall: 33

[L.Kizzle]

Nas
Fame/Impact: 9
Lyrics: 9.5
Flow: 9
Freestyle: 7
Sales: 8
Overall: 42.5

Biggie
Fame/Impact: 9.5
Lyrics: 8.5
Flow: 10
Freestyle: 8.5
Sales: 8.5
Overall: 45

Eminem
Fame/Impact: 8
Lyrics: 8
Flow: 8
Freestyle: 9.5
Sales: 8.5
Overall: 42
Eminems fame and sales should be 10. Biggie's sale and impact should also be 10.

[WhiteMosɘs]

Lil Wayne
Fame/Impact: 10
Lyrics: 4
Flow: 4
Freestyle: 5
Sales: 10
Overall: 33

I mean, it's dumb to argue with these scales for obvious reasons, but 4 for flow? :confusedshrug:

[ace23]

why does one of the few posters that cares about rap have to be the most clueless idiot ever. (ace23)
Explain, bro.

[Dictator]

I mean, it's dumb to argue with these scales for obvious reasons, but 4 for flow? :confusedshrug:


:oldlol: Lil wayne's flow, freestyle, and lyrics has always been below average. :lol Just being real here and that was being lenient.

[ace23]

Yeah, I listen to hip-hop now, anyone from the past few years deserve a top 25 ranking? :coleman:
Come on, man. You had Queen Latifah on your list.

[Dictator]

i suggest you stay in the futbol threads and not talk about rap.

8-)

I you are above 20 you should be ashamed of yourself. :facepalm

[L.Kizzle]

Come on, man. You had Queen Latifah on your list.
Should I have had Remy Ma or Jackie-O instead? This is all time not the past 5 years.

[WhiteMosɘs]

:oldlol: Lil wayne's flow, freestyle, and lyrics has always been below average. :lol Just being real here and that was being lenient.

You might have noticed I didn't try to argue with you about anything other than flow. Still... you're wrong on this one.

[ace23]

your taste is terrible. you can't grasp the concept of an "artist" and you're just an all around awful person. but you're one of 5 or 6 guys who listen to rap on this forum, so it sucks. why can't you be less shitty? 8-(
Thanks for clearing things up, son. Now I'd suggest you stop attacking me; I don't want to have to Ether you in front of your e-buddies.

[ace23]

Should I have had Remy Ma or Jackie-O instead? This is all time not the past 5 years.
Dude, OMG. You're trolling, right? :oldlol:

[L.Kizzle]

Dude, OMG. You're trolling, right? :oldlol:
How am I trolling, you're questioning me having Queen Latifah on a list of top 100 rap artist?

She might not be top 25, but she's top 100.

[WhiteMosɘs]

Eminems fame and sales should be 10. Biggie's sale and impact should also be 10.

Fame and Impact are completely different things... this makes no sense to me. Like I can see why Nas' impact is a 9, but his fame shouldn't be a 9 if Em's isn't a 15.

[L.Kizzle]

Fame and Impact are completely different things... this makes no sense to me. Like I can see why Nas' impact is a 9, but his fame shouldn't be a 9 if Em's isn't a 15.
Correct, I had them separate

[Dictator]

You might have noticed I didn't try to argue with you about anything other than flow. Still... you're wrong on this one.


Post a lil wayne song with flow. Yes, he was decent with his "the hot boyz chit" but now he's squeeziing every little cent out of his azz with his fame.

Lil wayne could say, "If the sky is green, then the grass is blue." And still sale millions.

[Dictator]

Correct, I had them separate


:lol You're the op, post your criteria and #s on the first post.

[Dictator]

the futbol thread is that way -------------->
or this way
|
|
|
|
V

You mad because lil B won't (ever) make top 100. :lol

[L.Kizzle]

SO, if y'all wanna continue to make this a serious thread, let's get it in. This can be fun yet informing at the same time with healthy (and from time to time heated) discussions.

We will come up with a group of artist, and using the criteria below, can get a feeling and than go on from there.


Fame:
Impact:
Lyrics:
Flow:
Sales:
-----
Overall:

I took freestyle out, we don't need that and made fame/impact separate.



And the way an artist will be chosen. Some artist were part of a group and also went solo (Ice Cube.) So he can be voted in as a solo artist or as part of the NWA, or hell Westside Connection. For a guy like Andre 3000, he's only eligible as a group member of OutKast, so if you like 3-Stacks, than he will have to go in as a meber of OutKast.

[WhiteMosɘs]

Post a lil wayne song with flow. Yes, he was decent with his "the hot boyz chit" but now he's squeeziing every little cent out of his azz with his fame.

Lil wayne could say, "If the sky is green, then the grass is blue." And still sale millions.

Does your Google work? N-o C-e-i-l-i-n-g-s.


SO, if y'all wanna continue to make this a serious thread, let's get it in. This can be fun yet informing at the same time with healthy (and from time to time heated) discussions.

We will come up with a group of artist, and using the criteria below, can get a feeling and than go on from there.


Fame:
Impact:
Lyrics:
Flow:
Sales:
-----
Overall:

I took freestyle out, we don't need that and made fame/impact separate.



And the way an artist will be chosen. Some artist were part of a group and also went solo (Ice Cube.) So he can be voted in as a solo artist or as part of the NWA, or hell Westside Connection. For a guy like Andre 3000, he's only eligible as a group member of OutKast, so if you like 3-Stacks, than he will have to go in as a meber of OutKast.

:applause:

[Dictator]

Does your Google work? N-o C-e-i-l-i-n-g-s.



:applause:


I been listened to no ceiling.

Still no flow....:confusedshrug:

"Rims hella big, tires skinny like chris rock." :confusedshrug:

[Dictator]

SO, if y'all wanna continue to make this a serious thread, let's get it in. This can be fun yet informing at the same time with healthy (and from time to time heated) discussions.

We will come up with a group of artist, and using the criteria below, can get a feeling and than go on from there.


Fame:
Impact:
Lyrics:
Flow:
Sales:
-----
Overall:

I took freestyle out, we don't need that and made fame/impact separate.



And the way an artist will be chosen. Some artist were part of a group and also went solo (Ice Cube.) So he can be voted in as a solo artist or as part of the NWA, or hell Westside Connection. For a guy like Andre 3000, he's only eligible as a group member of OutKast, so if you like 3-Stacks, than he will have to go in as a meber of OutKast.


Freestyling is a big part of rap. Eminem basically made his living off it and relied on it until he got record deals.

[L.Kizzle]

Freestyling is a big part of rap. Eminem basically made his living off it and relied on it until he got record deals.
I know, but we can't judge everyone on freestyling.

Ever heard MC Hammer freestyle, or MC Lyte, or many, many others?

[WhiteMosɘs]

I been listened to no ceiling.

Still no flow....:confusedshrug:

"Rims hella big, tires skinny like chris rock." :confusedshrug:

1.) You posted a lyric and we're still discussing flow.

2.) His flow is NICE on that line.

...

[WhiteMosɘs]

I know, but we can't judge everyone on freestyling.

Ever heard MC Hammer freestyle, or MC Lyte, or many, many others?

Kizzle's right. In the words of Big Ghost Fase:


This is what separates basic rap ****** from ****** who basically run rap namsayin. Jay showin yall mutha****as why charisma n mic presence gon always matter more than BARS namsayin. Yall nerd ass mutha****as who chose some word that most n*ggas never heard of before outta the dictionary as your rap name probably aint never gon understand that shit tho. Like that n*gga Pain In Da Ass once said..."Why don't you go get outta here. Get lost. Go kick a freestyle or something". Word is bond. Grown folks is talkin here son.

[L.Kizzle]

On a scale of 1-10
Impact: Impact they had on hip-hop and in other areas.
Lyrics: Are they great with words, were they deep in there songs.
Flow: Was their flow smooth, were they a good freestyle rapper?
Sales: How did they impact the charts.
Fame: How well known are they in the world of hip-hop; outside hip-hop?
-----
Overall:

The first group of artist will be:


Eric B. & Rakim
Eminem
Jay-Z
2Pac
The Notorious B.I.G.
Nas
Wu Tang Clan
N.W.A.
Run-D.M.C
Public Enemy

[ace23]

How am I trolling, you're questioning me having Queen Latifah on a list of top 100 rap artist?

She might not be top 25, but she's top 100.
Lauryn Hill >>> Queen Latifah, surprised that an old head like you didn't bring her up.

Lupe, Elzhi, and Kweli need to be on your list if you're going to include ****ing Ice Cube and BDK. Be serious, damn. You KNOW these are NOT the 25 BEST hip-hop artists of all time. I'll try to compile a top 25 since 2000.

I see old heads here are still slurping Biggie's decomposing cawk.

And where are the producers? I think Kanye is one of the best all-around hip-hop artists ever, and you didn't mention him.


Plus, there are probably hundreds of underground rappers that we haven't heard of who would shit on this entire list, so nothing can really be absolute.

[L.Kizzle]

Lauryn Hill >>> Queen Latifah, surprised that an old head like you didn't bring her up.

Lupe, Elzhi, and Kweli need to be on your list if you're going to include ****ing Ice Cube and BDK. Be serious, damn. You KNOW these are NOT the 25 BEST hip-hop artists of all time. I'll try to compile a top 25 since 2000.

I see old heads here are still slurping Biggie's decomposing cawk.

And where are the producers? I think Kanye is one of the best all-around hip-hop artists ever, and you didn't mention him.


Plus, there are probably hundreds of underground rappers that we haven't heard of who would shit on this entire list, so nothing can really be absolute.
-Hill will make the top 100 as part of the Fugee's.

-What is an old head, I'm probably younger than you?

-Kweli and Lupe will probably be in the top 100, Elzhi as a member of Slum Village will possibly be in the top 100.

-I see LL is not the only rapper who don't respect. add Kane and Cube to your list.

-Also, I don't care about an top 25 list post-2000, please do a top 25 list all-time.

-I've never seen Biggie's cawk.

-Kanye is not top 25.

-They're underground fr a reason. We can make a top 100 underground list in the future.

[ace23]

it's just incredible that ace doesn't see how absurd he looks.
Do you want attention or what, dude? Please contribute or STFU.

[L.Kizzle]

kissel's criteria is dumb so i'm not going to do it, but i've been contributing the whole thread? but you're literally insane. ice cube doesn't belong in a list of 25 greatest rap artists and LUPE FIASCO does?
I was just taking suggestions from other posters. What type of criteria would you use?

[ace23]

kissel's criteria is dumb so i'm not going to do it, but i've been contributing the whole thread? but you're literally insane. ice cube doesn't belong in a list of 25 greatest rap artists and LUPE FIASCO does?
Dude, you're ****ing stupid, and your taste ****ing disgusts me; go troll somewhere else, you racist dumb****. I'm sure you get a kick out of seeing black people shouting nonsense, jumping around foolishly in all that bullshit you post in the good rap/hip-hop thread. ****ing grow up, POS.

It's cool that you listen to a lot of rap and whatever, but you're starting to get annoying, chastisng people for their opinions and shit. Please drag your worthless ass to the nearest kitchen and "cook" to your shitty-ass "Based" "music".

****ing dumbass.

[LBJMVP]

:oldlol: Lil wayne's flow, freestyle, and lyrics has always been below average. :lol Just being real here and that was being lenient.

lil wayne was argueably the best rapper during the carter 2, drought 3, lilweeziana, dedication 2, and the leak.

lyrics were amazing, flow was outstanding... if you dont agree then your a hater. he rhymed about every subject.

[ace23]

-They're underground fr a reason. We can make a top 100 underground list in the future.
They're hip-hop artists, are they not? Who's to decide what's underground and what's mainstream?

I can't do an honest all-time list because I simply have not heard enough material from the guys you posted. Haven't heard more than one album from half of them.

[Bigsmoke]

Nas

[Dictator]

lil wayne was argueably the best rapper during the carter 2, drought 3, lilweeziana, dedication 2, and the leak.

lyrics were amazing, flow was outstanding... if you dont agree then your a hater. he rhymed about every subject.


old rap > new rap......

Lil Wayne is nothing but a skinny jean wearing, skateboarding, sellout, fake blood, pop star now.

[-p.tiddy-]

They're hip-hop artists, are they not? Who's to decide what's underground and what's mainstream?

I can't do an honest all-time list because I simply have not heard enough material from the guys you posted. Haven't heard more than one album from half of them.
You can tell who is underground and mainstream by the amount of attention they get obviously...record sales, etc

Shouldnt be any underground in a top 100 list.

[-p.tiddy-]

old rap > new rap......

Lil Wayne is nothing but a skinny jean wearing, skateboarding, sellout, fake blood, pop star now.
He would make a top 100 list though

[ace23]

You can tell who is underground and mainstream by the amount of attention they get obviously...record sales, etc

Shouldnt be any underground in a top 100 list.
There's no way to quantify attention. At what amount of record sales does an artist crossover from underground to mainstream? There's no set measure.

[L.Kizzle]

There's no way to quantify attention. At what amount of record sales does an artist crossover from underground to mainstream? There's no set measure.
A lot of rappers start of (if not all of them) underground.

Three-6-Mafia were underground, UGK (Underground Kingz), Master P underground legend before he blew up.

J-Zee underground since the late 80s. DMX released his first single in 1991 but didn't get on until 1997. I can go on and on.

[Knicks101]

Dude, you're ****ing stupid, and your taste ****ing disgusts me; go troll somewhere else, you racist dumb****. I'm sure you get a kick out of seeing black people shouting nonsense, jumping around foolishly in all that bullshit you post in the good rap/hip-hop thread. ****ing grow up, POS.

It's cool that you listen to a lot of rap and whatever, but you're starting to get annoying, chastisng people for their opinions and shit. Please drag your worthless ass to the nearest kitchen and "cook" to your shitty-ass "Based" "music".

****ing dumbass.

Somebody mad.

[Knicks101]

ace23 aka Phoenix18 aka PowerGlove aka RaininTwos has no taste. Didn't he say he listens to Immortal Technique? :oldlol:

[ace23]

Hope you're enjoying the attention, kid.

[AlphaWolf24]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Nx1WBgjY9RA/SyN0_1x0KOI/AAAAAAAACOI/LNDVrafI70A/s400/spice1+92.jpg

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

whatchya know bout this .........realist n!kka

[-p.tiddy-]

Spice would def make a top-100 list...he would probably be in the bottom 50 though

[L.Kizzle]

Spice would def make a top-100 list...he would probably be in the bottom 50 though
Spice should be around 60 range.

[-p.tiddy-]

On a scale of 1-10
Impact: Impact they had on hip-hop and in other areas.
Lyrics: Are they great with words, were they deep in there songs.
Flow: Was their flow smooth, were they a good freestyle rapper?
Sales: How did they impact the charts.
Fame: How well known are they in the world of hip-hop; outside hip-hop?
-----
Overall:

The first group of artist will be:


Eric B. & Rakim
Eminem
Jay-Z
2Pac
The Notorious B.I.G.
Nas
Wu Tang Clan
N.W.A.
Run-D.M.C
Public Enemy

I think the system should be simple

1 - TALENT, how great of a lyricist were/are they
2 - IMPACT, did they revolutionize anything? Did they change the game?

that's it...2 parts



it gets tricky with some artists though...those that had big impact in areas other than rapping

depending on how you look at it, RZA could either be a top-10 game changer or a sub-par rapper

same with Dre...he did so much that beyond rapping

[RaininTwos]

ace23 aka Phoenix18 aka PowerGlove aka RaininTwos has no taste. Didn't he say he listens to Immortal Technique? :oldlol:

I'm not Ace, but whatever. I really dont know why I respond to your lame ass posts.

[RaininTwos]

I think the criteria should encompass everything about rappers. People rarely discuss the intangibles, like voice and track presence. Like there are people who will get the last verse and a beat change even though they are the featuring artist, like Jay-z and Rick Ross.

Discography should definitely have a place as well and not just limited to the lame ass "how many 'classics' each artist have?". People should really take a look at sales, impact of each record,etc. What I mean by impact of each record is how did that album or project change the sound of its era, or influence other rappers? Take the Black Album for example, that album was very,very influential in the hip hop community. Lines and samples were taken and used by other rappers almost immediately after it was released.

Another category that should be discussed is lyricism. I don't really mind how complex a rappers rhyme scheme is, it's more important that rappers deliver a message in a clear concise manner. People on here tend to slobber over rappers who throw out multi's in there sleep but say nothing of value for a whole album. That irritates me to no end, I feel like no matter how pop an album is intended to be, I should still be able to take something from your project that has more meaning than superficial bullshit. A lot of people get passes for not having much, if any, relevant subject matter. I'm not asking people to be preachy and shit like that, but if you arent talking about real shit, how the f*ck is your material going to stand the test of time? Like DMX said, "Rick Ross doesnt talk about anything other than materialistic bullshit". The thing about music, is that while I might need a rapper to say something of value every once in a while at the very least, someone might be just the opposite.

I think that before people create lists, they should define what all of the criteria means to you and what type of music you gravitate to. At the end of the day, you shouldn't have a list full of people you don't like to listen to just so your list fits the mold of what every one expects. Now that's not to say that you be like Mr. Al Thornton either, he's just starving for attention with his posts.

[CeltsGarlic]

#27
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50266_282319945939_1397045_n.jpg

Horsedick MPEG.

[alwaysunny]

:roll: :roll:

please don't tell me you're implying that Lupe Fiasco, Elzhi, and talib Kweli are better rappers than Ice Cube....

Depends what you mean by better rapper

[-p.tiddy-]

Cube is better than those rapper in EVERY way

1990: AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted
1991: Death Certificate
1992: The Predator
1993: Lethal Injection


all classics :bowdown:

I played the hell out of all those CDs...love them all


he is probably top-10 all time

[Jackass18]

No, not even. Just don't really like the style and tone of certain artists that people hold in high esteem as it pertains to the entire spectrum and history of rap/hip-hop.

Personal opinion. Who the **** rolls around bumpin Queen Latifah, Salt-n-Pepa or Beastie Boys albums??

Umm, really? You're sounding kind of suspect.

[RaininTwos]

I would have to say, in terms of discography,sales,impact,longevity and a host of others, Cube is greater than Lupe. I like both, but objectively I dont know how you say that Cube isn't greater than Lupe.

[alwaysunny]

I have Cube ahead of them too, waaay ahead. But like we discussed yesterday such a vague term like 'better' probably gonna cause some stupid debate because people perceive the definition differently.

People from Chicago will say somethin like "But Lupe has more substance"

Detroit will say "Elzhi has better wordplay and rhyme schemes"

"Who gives a shit about record sales? You saying lil wayne is better??"

etc, etc :sleeping

[Jackass18]

I don't know how you're going to do this. There would be too much arguing/fighting because people have quite varying opinions on a number of artists. Even if it's just a vote, then people will catch feelings and start fighting and might try to sabotage it. Then, you also have the 'you're taste sucks, so your vote doesn't count' type people.

[RaininTwos]

You have to get certain people to vote, it cant just be everyone and there momma throwing in their two cents. Kizzle has been around here long enough to know who can articulate their points in a coherent manner and know their shit.

[-p.tiddy-]

I have Cube ahead of them too, waaay ahead. But like we discussed yesterday such a vague term like 'better' probably gonna cause some stupid debate because people perceive the definition differently.

People from Chicago will say somethin like "But Lupe has more substance"

Detroit will say "Elzhi has better wordplay and rhyme schemes"

"Who gives a shit about record sales? You saying lil wayne is better??"

etc, etc :sleeping
yeah well, that's why the vote method would be fun...we all have different opinions, let's combine our opinions into one list and see what happens

impossible to make EVERYONE happy...I had a lot of issues with the ISH top-100 NBA players we did...but it was still fun



doesn't look like we have enough people though...

[ace23]

:roll: :roll:

please don't tell me you're implying that Lupe Fiasco, Elzhi, and talib Kweli are better rappers than Ice Cube....
No discussion really. Look at the lyrics.

So many dudes from the West Coast who are better than Ice Cube.

[-p.tiddy-]

I don't know how you're going to do this. There would be too much arguing/fighting because people have quite varying opinions on a number of artists. Even if it's just a vote, then people will catch feelings and start fighting and might try to sabotage it. Then, you also have the 'you're taste sucks, so your vote doesn't count' type people.
every thread in here has fighting lol

we would just vote and make a list...people will whine no matter what

[RaininTwos]

No discussion really. Look at the lyrics.

So many dudes from the West Coast who are better than Ice Cube.
:coleman:

stop it son

[Jackass18]

every thread in here has fighting lol

we would just vote and make a list...people will whine no matter what

I'm just saying it could end up being a cluster****.

[ace23]

:coleman:

stop it son
What does Ice Cube bring to the table lyrically, dude? Get over your nostalgia.

[RaininTwos]

What does Ice Cube bring to the table lyrically, dude? Get over your nostalgia.
This isn't just about lyrics.:oldlol:

[L.Kizzle]

No discussion really. Look at the lyrics.

So many dudes from the West Coast who are better than Ice Cube.
Like who? Don't get me wrong, I like Lupe but he doesn't compare with Cube's body of work.

[RidonKs]

This isn't just about lyrics.:oldlol:
he's incapable of seeing a song for what it is, he'd rather pull up a lyrics site to assess it

i'd rather listen to lupe over cube, he's a way better lyricist and as a poet he doesn't try to do too much, just enough to get across a message. his voice is better than most. but it's a close call compared to the raw ability and presence of ice cube.

there's also the side issue that lupe's music, more often than not, tends to suck. i keep coming back to hear his thoughts, but he can do better than he has in his beat selection. hopefully the bad taste of lasers will stay in his mouth long enough for him to put a high quality product out there.

[L.Kizzle]

Let's sget this thing goin.

Where does Gang Starr rank?

[ace23]

he's incapable of seeing a song for what it is, he'd rather pull up a lyrics site to assess it

i'd rather listen to lupe over cube, he's a way better lyricist and as a poet he doesn't try to do too much, just enough to get across a message. his voice is better than most. but it's a close call compared to the raw ability and presence of ice cube.

there's also the side issue that lupe's music, more often than not, tends to suck. i keep coming back to hear his thoughts, but he can do better than he has in his beat selection. hopefully the bad taste of lasers will stay in his mouth long enough for him to put a high quality product out there.
Sorry, nothing Ice Cube has said has made me sit and think, "Damn, I wish I was clever enough to think of that first!"

He's not bad or anything, but not a top-100 rapper IMO.

[L.Kizzle]

Sorry, nothing Ice Cube has said has made me sit and think, "Damn, I wish I was clever enough to think of that first!"

He's not bad or anything, but not a top-100 rapper IMO.
So LL Cool J and Ice Cube are not top 100 rappers? I know it;s your opinion, but that's a pretty bold statement to make.

Can you post your top 25?

[ace23]

So LL Cool J and Ice Cube are not top 100 rappers? I know it;s your opinion, but that's a pretty bold statement to make.

Can you post your top 25?
Shit, I'd have to think about it. Nas, Eminem, Lupe, DOOM, K-Rino (really gotten into him in the past year), One Be Lo, GZA, Elzhi, Blu would most likely be on my list. I've probably overlooked a lot of real geniuses, but whatever. Give me some time to really think on it.

Inb4 mass hate.

[L.Kizzle]

Shit, I'd have to think about it. Nas, Eminem, Lupe, DOOM, K-Rino (really gotten into him in the past year), One Be Lo, GZA, Elzhi, Blu would most likely be on my list. I've probably overlooked a lot of real geniuses, but whatever. Give me some time to really think on it.

Inb4 mass hate.
These sound like your favorite rapper, or just great lyricist. Totally different from greatest.

Also, I have a friend I went to school with who did a track with K-Rino. Have know idea how he got to do track with him, he sucks but whatever, haha,

[Alamo]

Ice Cube isn't a top 100 rapper? I think almost everyone who has ever listened to rap/hip hop would disagree.

[ace23]

These sound like your favorite rapper, or just great lyricist. Totally different from greatest.

Also, I have a friend I went to school with who did a track with K-Rino. Have know idea how he got to do track with him, he sucks but whatever, haha,
That's the most important part of rapping: the lyrics.

"Back to the lyrics, mang"

And let me hear that track.

[ace23]

Ice Cube isn't a top 100 rapper? I think almost everyone who has ever listened to rap/hip hop would disagree.
Do you want to be like most people or do you want to think for yourself?

[Alamo]

Do you want to be like most people or do you want to think for yourself?

So Ice Cube isn't in your top 100 because you're trying to be different? Everyone has a different opinion, but there are certain things that people will agree on.

[ace23]

So Ice Cube isn't in your top 100 because you're trying to be different? Everyone has a different opinion, but there are certain things that people will agree on.
You going to answer the question, bro? :lol

If Ice Cube was a nobody and dropped Lethal Injection today, not one **** would be given.

[L.Kizzle]

Ice Cube made his name in hip-hop not from making Friday movies, but being a dope ass rapper. Have you listened to his first four solo releases? They are required. Not to mention his NWA material, his Westside connection material and various tracks on his albums after hist main four like War And Piece sets.

[L.Kizzle]

You going to answer the question, bro? :lol

If Ice Cube was a nobody and dropped Lethal Injection today, not one **** would be given.
What does that have to do with anything? If he was a nobody, than he'd have an underground following possibly.

[L.Kizzle]

That's the most important part of rapping: the lyrics.

"Back to the lyrics, mang"

And let me hear that track.
I shouldn't be hating, he's is doin his thing more than me right now. It's not hating, it's just more of a shock or surprise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdSQVJnWB7w

[ace23]

Ice Cube made his name in hip-hop not from making Friday movies, but being a dope ass rapper. Have you listened to his first four solo releases? They are required. Not to mention his NWA material, his Westside connection material and various tracks on his albums after hist main four like War And Piece sets.
I've heard Lethal Injection and Amerikkkas Most Wanted, some NWA. Don't really care to hear more. Let me hear his absolute best.

[miller-time]

So Ice Cube isn't in your top 100 because you're trying to be different? Everyone has a different opinion, but there are certain things that people will agree on.

are you kidding me? if ice cube was in your top 100 people would think you are totally not cool. only rappers who toil in the underground music scene for decades can be on this list. minor mainstream crossovers once every 5 years is acceptable.

the crappier the production value the better too.

[ace23]

what do you guys think about my pick for the 14th spot (Mystikal)? accurately ranked?

or where should he be?
I see him left out on most lists...
Are you serious? Not knocking you, just wondering.

Go ahead and put Nas at #1, Kizzle.

[RaininTwos]

Ice Cube....not in Ace's top 100?

Dude, post your list ASAP.

You in here talking all that yayo, put up that list already so that I can see what the hell your rankings look like.

[andgar923]

Wait... I haven't read the full thread because the first page was a joke, but please tell me that people aren't serious in their exclusion of Cube in the top 100.

[andgar923]

Sorry, nothing Ice Cube has said has made me sit and think, "Damn, I wish I was clever enough to think of that first!"

He's not bad or anything, but not a top-100 rapper IMO.

:coleman:

WTF are you smoking.

[andgar923]

No, not even. Just don't really like the style and tone of certain artists that people hold in high esteem as it pertains to the entire spectrum and history of rap/hip-hop.

Personal opinion. Who the **** rolls around bumpin Queen Latifah, Salt-n-Pepa or Beastie Boys albums??

These styles just seem very outdated and chessy now
:facepalm

Another f*ckin retard.

[andgar923]

Fame and impact is about the same thing though. This thread is still alive lets start for "real".

No it isn't.

Fame is being known, Soulja Boy was known.

Impact is influencing either the culture of hip hop or artists, and this can come from somebody that's not as famous as somebody as Soulja Boy.

I think 'fame' should be an irrelevant factor.

[L.Kizzle]

Wait... I haven't read the full thread because the first page was a joke, but please tell me that people aren't serious in their exclusion of Cube in the top 100.
Onle one people.

I still wanna see Ace's 100, he said there is 100 hip-hop artist better.

[andgar923]

Onle one people.

I still wanna see Ace's 100, he said there is 100 hip-hop artist better.

I may have missed it but what's the criteria?

These type of lists are always hard to make because people may put emphasis on different factors. And at times certain factors has to be more emphasized than others depending on the artist.

Here's a perfect example on how/why these are flawed:

Deck is a better mc than Kanye

But one will almost never see Deck>>> Ye including my own list.

Deck is by far the better MC (yes I said by far), but Deck hasn't had the impact nor the discography that Ye has had... .not close.

And the thing is, something like this isn't the exception but the norm and we're reading it in just about every page.

[L.Kizzle]

I may have missed it but what's the criteria?

These type of lists are always hard to make because people may put emphasis on different factors. And at times certain factors has to be more emphasized than others depending on the artist.

Here's a perfect example on how/why these are flawed:

Deck is a better mc than Kanye

But one will almost never see Deck>>> Ye including my own list.

Deck is by far the better MC (yes I said by far), but Deck hasn't had the impact nor the discography that Ye has had... .not close.

And the thing is, something like this isn't the exception but the norm and we're reading it in just about every page.
Deck may be a better lyricist, but what does he have to show for it? No fame, fortune, top albums or singles, impact, influence, ect.

SO is deck really a "greater artist" or a better "lyricist"?

[L.Kizzle]

and inspectah deck is not iconic enough to go by just "deck".

and wu tang is for sure top 30 at least.
Correct, and I'd have Wu top 15. As a whole unit, they are that important. A few solo members might sneek in the later part of the bottom 50 or possibly higher. Bust Deck, U-God, Masta Killa will probably not make it as solo artist.

[ace23]

Wait, so we're doing groups and individuals who were parts of the groups, and you have Queen Latifah ahead of Lauryn Hill?

[L.Kizzle]

Wait, so we're doing groups and individuals who were parts of the groups, and you have Queen Latifah ahead of Lauryn Hill?
This is the Greatest Hip-Hop Artist of All-Time. Does her Miseducation of Lauryn Hill even merit her a spot here, nope. It's a great album, one of the best of the 90s but it's not even a just straight up hip-hop album. It's a more neo-soul record with rapping mixed into it.

Now here ground/band the Fugees will easily make the list. The Sore is one of the best Hip-Hop albums of all-time.

I explained my self but you have yet to list 100 hip-hop artist you have infront of ice Cube?

[andgar923]

Deck may be a better lyricist, but what does he have to show for it? No fame, fortune, top albums or singles, impact, influence, ect.

SO is deck really a "greater artist" or a better "lyricist"?

you seem to have missed my point.

[andgar923]

and inspectah deck is not iconic enough to go by just "deck".

and wu tang is for sure top 30 at least.
:oldlol:

They're at minimum a top 5 hip hop group all time, how do they fall to top 30 overall?

[L.Kizzle]

you seem to have missed my point.
Possibly.

[ace23]

I don't know why I bother having these discussions with you, it's clear you have literally no comprehension of rap or music in general.
Says the Lil B stan.

Still working on that top-100 list, Kizzle.

[Knicks101]

Says the Lil B stan.

Still working on that top-100 list, Kizzle.

If I see Immortal Technique on that list ahead of Kriss Kross the guns are coming out.

[Knicks101]

I'm guessing Immortal Technique and Lupe Fiasco will both be top 10.

Mos Def and Talib Kweli both as Blackstar and solo artists make up three of the other spots in the Top 10. Big L, Elzhi and Kurtis Blow too.

[Knicks101]

Oh, and Earl Sweatshirt.

[ace23]

It just means I have a broader spectrum of music I listen to.
Yeah, keep telling yourself that. :oldlol:

[ace23]

Mos Def and Talib Kweli both as Blackstar and solo artists make up three of the other spots in the Top 10. Big L, Elzhi and Kurtis Blow too.


Oh, and Earl Sweatshirt.
:lol :applause:

[ace23]

So I don't listen to Lil B? Make up your mind.
What is your spectrum broader than? Listening to any artist would broaden one's spectrum of artists he listens to.

This is a stupid argument.

[RaininTwos]

why does ace keep posting replies that dont contain his list???

[blablabla]

a tribe called quest should be on that list

[ace23]

Revising my top 50 and just checked Kizzle's shitty criteria:bowdown: . 3/5 things have nothing to do with the music. :wtf:

Impact, fame, and sales? :roll: Jay-Z/Pac/Biggie/Lil Wayne are pretty much guaranteed the top spots. :facepalm

****, hard to not include Ice Cube when the list ain't even mostly about skills.

[RaininTwos]

Revising my top 50 and just checked Kizzle's shitty criteria:bowdown: . 3/5 things have nothing to do with the music. :wtf:

Impact, fame, and sales? :roll: Jay-Z/Pac/Biggie/Lil Wayne are pretty much guaranteed the top spots. :facepalm

****, hard to not include Ice Cube when the list ain't even mostly about skills.

Impact has nothing to do with music????:wtf:

Just post your shit already.

[-p.tiddy-]

I do think it would be fun to do a real one, like the ISH top 100 bball players...that was fun

I'm down...I think I have extremely good knowledge for everything pre 2000...yes I do, I listened to ALL OF IT

and average knowledge for everything after



and yeah my #1 is

http://jakedavis.typepad.com/jakedavis/images/2008/05/26/biggie.jpg



we need at least 20 posters to make it worth it though...less and the list wouldn't be that realistic

I vote this as #1

are we going to get this thing going or not?

1 VOTE BIGGIE

[ace23]

Impact has nothing to do with music????:wtf:

Just post your shit already.
No, it doees not. You can make the deepest music and make zero impact if no one ever hears it. Those 3 fluff categories really hurt the underground artists.

And calm down, bro. Why are you rushing me?

[RidonKs]

You can write the deepest poetry and make zero impact if no one ever reads it.
fixed for all intents and purposes

if you're going to talk about something completely different than everybody else, at least be honest about it. you put excessive value into lyrical coherence and depth and as a result fail to acknowledge a great rapper who might not be as bright as lupe or mos. hence overrating guys like immortal technique who are interesting and worth listening to but not particularly talented.

[RaininTwos]

No, it doees not. You can make the deepest music and make zero impact if no one ever hears it. Those 3 fluff categories really hurt the underground artists.

And calm down, bro. Why are you rushing me?

I am calm, you keep talking about this mythical list, where is it?

[ace23]

I am calm, you keep talking about this mythical list, where is it?
Where is your list? You seem to believe that Ice Cube is a top-100 rapper. Stop referencing your mythical list! :no:

[ace23]

fixed for all intents and purposes

if you're going to talk about something completely different than everybody else, at least be honest about it. you put excessive value into lyrical coherence and depth and as a result fail to acknowledge a great rapper who might not be as bright as lupe or mos. hence overrating guys like immortal technique who are interesting and worth listening to but not particularly talented.
Excessive value? Are you trying to argue that the lyrics are not the best barometer in measuring a rapper's skill? There's flow, delivery obviously, but those are not as difficult to master as lyrical dexterity.

Or are you trying to say that lyricism takes no talent, and that anyone can do it? :oldlol:

[RaininTwos]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Knicks101]

Stop arguing with yourself Phoenix, it's weird.

[RidonKs]

Excessive value? Are you trying to argue that the lyrics are not the best barometer in measuring a rapper's skill? There's flow, delivery obviously, but those are not as difficult to master as lyrical dexterity.
actually i think it's pretty clear that lyricism is easier to master than the other factors that contribute to a legit mc. well, most of the other factors. a lot of it is just a matter of voice, lots of guys alter how they sound on the mic but if you sound grainy or whiny when you're talking, you're not going to get much love except from backpackers and suburbanites.

i'm sure if i put the time in i could put together great verses, all technically sound and 'deep' or whatever, make you think on a few bars. i'm good with words and have listened to more than enough hip hop to know how its done. but if it's coming out of my mouth? it's inevitably gonna suck because i don't have the accent, the charisma, just the natural ability to hold the attention of a listener for a whole verse.

like the way you phrase this shit it seems you consider rap to be an entirely different form of art compared to every other musical genre. obviously it was natural ability that elevated aretha and sam cooke above the rest. lyrics play a more important role in hip hop just because there are simply more of them and usually no melody, but no, i wouldn't call them the deciding factor or even the most important factor. i've listened to waaaaaay too many really talented writers who can't spit worth shit.

[ace23]

That natural ability to hold the attention of the listener is called delivery. Switching up your voice every now and then, sounding confident, etc. does not take the talent it takes to be a good lyricist.

And I feel you on the voice thing, kind of. But if a dude is really lyrical, I look past it. You can still enjoy the music if you focus on the substance and actual skill involved.

And hip-hop is very different from other genres. There is no real vocal melody or harmony. It's poetry over music.

[Dictator]

Ice Cube no doubt is a top 100 rapper just of popularity alone.....

Not top 100?!? Like really :facepalm :wtf: :biggums: :coleman:

[RidonKs]

You can still enjoy the music if you focus on the substance and actual skill involved.
but this is the point. you aren't enjoying the music, you're enjoying the poetry. maybe you additionally enjoy the music behind the poetry. but they aren't one and the same, they aren't blended into a SONG, you're simultaneously appreciating both music and poetry but they don't form a homogeneous entity like the best hip hop does. that's the problem with earl sweatshirt and immortal technique and even guys like elzhi, who i respect the hell out of for ridic lyricism, complex rhyme schemes, and technically mastering the art of rapping... and i still love his work with slum village and the preface is an amazing album. but in spite of all that technical ability, all those mind=blown verses, half the time it just feels like he's slinging everything he's got at you hoping enough will stick. even if the lyrical content spells out a coherent message, it's not done in a particularly fluid way.

ive been listening to a bunch of elzhi lately but i didn't feel any differently than you did until like the past few weeks... i remember this post (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6810877&postcount=9) by al that spelled it out. maybe you won't hear the same thing, nasta didn't, but to me elzhi's interpretation sounds like a barrage whereas brown's is just... rapping. iunno it's a tricky distinction to describe

[L.Kizzle]

That natural ability to hold the attention of the listener is called delivery. Switching up your voice every now and then, sounding confident, etc. does not take the talent it takes to be a good lyricist.

And I feel you on the voice thing, kind of. But if a dude is really lyrical, I look past it. You can still enjoy the music if you focus on the substance and actual skill involved.

And hip-hop is very different from other genres. There is no real vocal melody or harmony. It's poetry over music.
That's like a terrible singe who's a good songwriter.

Anyways, why are people acting brand new. Y'all know what I'm talking bout when I say "100 Greatest Artist of All-Time." If I wanted 100 lyricist, I would have titled it that. Is Elzhi a greater artist than say, Busta Rhymes or whoever,, no. Is he a better lyricist. that's up to you to decide. That's totally different. Elzhi hasn't impacted a damn thing in hip-hp, hasn't done anything. No one knows him unless you google his ass.

Get with the program ... and where is your list Ace, it's been like 3 days?

[L.Kizzle]

wouldn't it be easier to break down into 25 groups 25 producers 50 individuals and rank them in their own categories?
I like that idea, but than some people double as producer/artist.

So Kanye or Rza can be in the list as a solo artist and producer.

[L.Kizzle]

the 00's artists that need to be on is going to be the hardest part. saying ice cube belongs is obviously easy. ish tends to be much less knowledgeable about the rap that came out after 2000.
It's not hard after the 2000's who's made an impact in the game. Kanye, Ludacris, TI, Fabolous, Beanie Sigel, Nelly and even a few from later in the decade like Lupe, Jeezy and maybe even Ross.

[L.Kizzle]

those two are not very important or impactful. jeezy definitely belongs, gucci and boosie as well. dipset and g unit should be on as well as cam and 50 individually.
Maybe not Beens, but Fab could sneak in the bottom 90, haha.

Boosie, naw. Dip-Set, that's a tough one right there. If you add the mid-00s Dip-Set, than would you add a group like the mid-90s Lost Boyz?

[RaininTwos]

the 00's artists that need to be on is going to be the hardest part to decide/agree on. saying ice cube belongs is obviously easy. ish tends to be much less knowledgeable about the rap that came out after 2000.
drake should be on the top 100

[Alamo]

drake should be on the top 100

lol

[RaininTwos]

lol
why not?

[ace23]

I'll be done with that list tomorrow, so you n!ggas can stop riding.

Rakim at 7. Weezy at 9. Popularity contest FTW. **** that technical skill nonsense.

[ace23]

but this is the point. you aren't enjoying the music, you're enjoying the poetry. maybe you additionally enjoy the music behind the poetry. but they aren't one and the same, they aren't blended into a SONG, you're simultaneously appreciating both music and poetry but they don't form a homogeneous entity like the best hip hop does. that's the problem with earl sweatshirt and immortal technique and even guys like elzhi, who i respect the hell out of for ridic lyricism, complex rhyme schemes, and technically mastering the art of rapping... and i still love his work with slum village and the preface is an amazing album. but in spite of all that technical ability, all those mind=blown verses, half the time it just feels like he's slinging everything he's got at you hoping enough will stick. even if the lyrical content spells out a coherent message, it's not done in a particularly fluid way.

ive been listening to a bunch of elzhi lately but i didn't feel any differently than you did until like the past few weeks... i remember this post (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6810877&postcount=9) by al that spelled it out. maybe you won't hear the same thing, nasta didn't, but to me elzhi's interpretation sounds like a barrage whereas brown's is just... rapping. iunno it's a tricky distinction to describe
Can't I appreciate the lyricism and the production simultaneously, thus appreciating the song.

As for the second paragraph, that's what happens when you pit two rappers who are in different classes against each other. One is going to sound significantly more advanced than the other.

I think you're overthinking this.

[ace23]

That's like a terrible singe who's a good songwriter.
No, it's not. Why? Because rapping is not singing. I don't give a shit about the quality of a rappers voice, octave range, etc. Say some clever shit, tell a story, whatever. Let's hear what you have to say.

[Knicks101]

I'll be done with that list tomorrow, so you n!ggas can stop riding.

Rakim at 7. Weezy at 9. Popularity contest FTW. **** that technical skill nonsense.

:oldlol: Can't wait to see the rest.

[ace23]

Top 50


Rapper (Impact, Lyrics, Flow, Fame) **** sales, screws over newer artists. Ice Cube is in with the terrible criteria. Let me know who I'm missing.

1. Jay-Z (9,7,8,10)
2. Tupac (10,7,7,10)
3. Biggie (9,7,9,9)
4. Eminem (7, 9, 9, 9)
5. Nas (6, 10, 9, 8)
6. Lil Wayne (9, 6, 7, 10)
7. Wu-Tang Clan (7, 8, 8, 8)
8. Rakim (10, 8, 6, 7)
9. Kanye West (10, 6, 7, 8)
10. Lauryn Hill (8, 8, 8, 7)
11. Snoop Dogg (7, 6, 7, 10)
12. NWA (9, 5, 8, 8)
13. The Roots (7, 8, 8, 7)
14. Ice Cube (8, 6, 6, 10)
15. RZA (8, 7, 8, 8)
16. Scarface (7, 7, 8, 7)
17. Andre 3000 (7, 7, 7, 8)
18. GZA (6, 9, 7, 7)
19. 50 Cent (7, 5, 6, 10)
20. Busta Rhymes (6, 6, 8, 8)
21. Ludacris (7, 7, 7, 7)
22. Method Man (6, 7, 8, 7)
23. Run DMC (8, 6, 6, 8)
24. Common (6, 7, 7, 8)
25. A Tribe Called Quest (7, 7, 7, 7)
26. Big Pun (5, 8, 8, 6)
27. Mos Def (6, 8, 7, 7)
28. Outkast (7, 6, 7, 8)
29. Bun B (7, 6, 8, 7)
30. Public Enemy (8, 5, 6, 9)
31. Lupe Fiasco (6, 10, 7, 5)
32. Q-Tip (7, 7, 8, 6)
33. Dr. Dre (8, 2, 7, 10)
34. Big L (5, 7, 8, 7)
35. UGK (7, 5, 7, 8)
36. TI (6, 6, 6, 9)
37. MC Lyte (8, 6, 7, 6)
38. Big Daddy Kane (7, 5, 8, 7)
39. Immortal Technique (5, 10, 7, 5)
40. Beastie Boys (8, 6, 6, 7)
41. KRS One (10, 4, 5, 8)
42. Aesop Rock (4, 10, 8, 5)
43. MF DOOM (5, 8, 9, 5)
44. Mobb Deep (6, 7, 7, 7)
45. Rick Ross (8, 4, 5, 10)
46. Queen Latifah (8, 5, 5, 9)
47. AZ (5, 9, 9, 4)
48. Slick Rick (6, 8, 7, 6)
49. Elzhi (3, 10, 9, 4)
50. Eazy E (7, 5, 6, 8)

[Scholar]

I respect your list, Ace, but I can't 100% agree with it. Lil Wayne at number 6? :eek: I don't know... Call me a hater, but that guy would barely crack my top 15.

I'm not going to sit here and make a complete list, though. Respect to those of you with the mind and dedication to do it. :cheers:

[L.Kizzle]

Thats a respectable list, though it doesn't make sense to have Andre 3000 ten spots ahead of Outkast?

Also, I think you may be confussed on the sales part. How is Em a 9 in sales, as he's the highest saling hip hop arrtist all time? And how is Big L a 7 in sales, the same as you have Ludacris and Scarface?

[ace23]

Thats a respectable list, though it doesn't make sense to have Andre 3000 ten spots ahead of Outkast?

Also, I think you may be confussed on the sales part. How is Em a 9 in sales, as he's the highest saling hip hop arrtist all time? And how is Big L a 7 in sales, the same as you have Ludacris and Scarface?
I ddnt do sales. Read the text above the list.

[L.Kizzle]

I ddnt do sales. Read the text above the list.
Oh ok, I thought sales was your last catagory.

[RidonKs]

Can't I appreciate the lyricism and the production simultaneously, thus appreciating the song.

As for the second paragraph, that's what happens when you pit two rappers who are in different classes against each other. One is going to sound significantly more advanced than the other.

I think you're overthinking this.
probably, as with most things, but it's a good time waster

i used to feel the exact same way as you... like literally. my favourite mc's were pretty much a carbon copy of yours. lupe, aesop rock, doom, sage francis, immortal technique, jmt, etc. and i'm pretty sure i liked them for the same reasons you do, the experience i got out of them was head scratching from their riddles and laughing at their wit. f*cking smart guys all of them and i still listen to them frequently.

but there's something to be said for a different sort of listening experience that's much more similar to the way you listen to other genres of music. i think you get out of it what you're expecting to because there are different ways to listen. following the words and thinking about the poetry is one way, but the other way is to appreciate the song in its entirety, the fusion between the music and the poetry and the rhythm that allows it all to be pulled off. that's different, it's more fulfilling, and its just a better overall experience. :confusedshrug:

this was an earnest post of mine four years ago that i remember well because it took me so long to finally realize exactly how i was framing the comparison (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1654842&postcount=58)

my lines were not better than nas' capper, not even close. and yet if we carefully examine the thought that went into penning each and every one of those words by either rapper, i'm sure we'd find much more meaning to extract from tonedeff than we would from nas. yet nas is better. HOW COULD THAT BE?



forget that nonsense list, clearly you put a lot of time into thinking it through and making it but it doesn't accurately reflect your opinion. scratch the impact and fame and let's see your top 50 when it comes to what most of us know really matters.

[Lamar Doom]

1. Biggie
2. A Tribe Called Quest
3. De La Soul
4. Mos Def
5. Pharcyde
6. Outkast
7. Wu-Tang
8. The Roots
9. Nas
10. NWA
11. Pete Rock and CL Smooth
12. Common Sense
13. Del The Funky Homosapien
14. Gangstarr
15. Boogie Down Productions
16. Hieorglyphics (Casual, Pep Love, Souls of Mischief)
17. Slick Rick
18. Redman
19. UGK
20. Fugees
21. Big L
22. Run DMC
23. Big Pun
24. Black Moon
25. Jay-Z
26. EPMD
27. Big Daddy Kane
28. Beastie Boys
29. Slum Village
30. Goodie Mobb
31. Brand Nubian
32. Boot Camp (Heltah Skeltah, OGC, Smif Wessun, Sean P)
33. Black Sheep
34. Talib Kweli
35. Camp Lo
36. Ed OG
37. Kool G Rap
38. Jurassic 5
39. Das EFX
40. Public Enemy
41. Bush Babees
42. Snoop Dogg
43. Masta Ace
44. Digital Underground
46. Eminem
46. Freestyle Fellowship
47. Haiku De Tat
48. Typical Cats
49. Ultramagnetic MCs
50. Dilated Peoples
51. DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince
52. Blackalicious
53. Jeru the Damaja
54. MF Doom
55. Kanye West
56. Cannibal OX
57. Large Professor
58. Tupac
59. Pharoahe Monch
60. Mobb Deep
61. MOP
62. World Famous Beat Junkies
63. Arrested Development
64. Gravediggaz
64. Digable Planets
65. Jungle Brothers
66. Xecutioners
67. Tone Loc
68. Dogg Pound
69. Statik Selektah
70. Naughty By Nature
71. Scarface
72. Roc Marciano
73. Jean Grae
74. Little Brother
75. Company Flow
76. Artifacts
77. Busta Rhymes
78. Percee P
79. Alkaholiks
80. Main Source
81. OC
82. Binary Star
83. Lords of The Underground
84. Warren G
85. Beatnuts
86. Organized Konfusion
87. Lost Boyz
88. AZ
89. Capone N Noreaga
90. Action Bronson
91. Maffew Ragazino
92. Freddie Gibbs
93. Fela Kuti
94. LL Cool J
95. Onyx
96. Paul Barman
97. Arsonists
98. the Anonymous
99. Wascals
100. YU


Where do acts like
Sound Providers, Herbalizer, and Nightmares on Wax belong?

Ras Kass is better than Lil Wayne and didn't make my list. Gucci Mane? Seriously get the f*ck outta here.

I didn't include guys like Afrika Bambataa, Whodini, Kurtis Blow, Grandmaster Flash, Salt N Pepa, Sugarhill, Cold Crush because I was a little too young for them and don't listen to them.

Obviously groupls like Wu-Tang, Boot Camp, Hiero, ultramagnetic, xecutioners, etc could have been seperated into individuals but I chose otherwise.

I probably missed a few, and probably included some that don't belong, it's hard to think of 100 though. That was mostly off the top of my head. I stopped thinking too hard about getting the exact rank in meticulous order after a while too but that's the just of it.

[L.Kizzle]

Doom, I dig damn near all the artist in your top 100 list but Tupac at 58? We all thought Ace was nuts for wanting to leave Cube out of the top 100. :lol I'm pretty sure the 57 artist you have in front of him would agree he should be much higher than 58.

[ace23]

probably, as with most things, but it's a good time waster

i used to feel the exact same way as you... like literally. my favourite mc's were pretty much a carbon copy of yours. lupe, aesop rock, doom, sage francis, immortal technique, jmt, etc. and i'm pretty sure i liked them for the same reasons you do, the experience i got out of them was head scratching from their riddles and laughing at their wit. f*cking smart guys all of them and i still listen to them frequently.

but there's something to be said for a different sort of listening experience that's much more similar to the way you listen to other genres of music. i think you get out of it what you're expecting to because there are different ways to listen. following the words and thinking about the poetry is one way, but the other way is to appreciate the song in its entirety, the fusion between the music and the poetry and the rhythm that allows it all to be pulled off. that's different, it's more fulfilling, and its just a better overall experience. :confusedshrug:

this was an earnest post of mine four years ago that i remember well because it took me so long to finally realize exactly how i was framing the comparison (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1654842&postcount=58)

my lines were not better than nas' capper, not even close. and yet if we carefully examine the thought that went into penning each and every one of those words by either rapper, i'm sure we'd find much more meaning to extract from tonedeff than we would from nas. yet nas is better. HOW COULD THAT BE?



forget that nonsense list, clearly you put a lot of time into thinking it through and making it but it doesn't accurately reflect your opinion. scratch the impact and fame and let's see your top 50 when it comes to what most of us know really matters.
Who are some of your favorites today? I'll try to do another top 50; don't expect it anytime soon, though.

[L.Kizzle]

doom could you even name 10 gucci songs?

that list makes ace look sane.
Looks like Doom named his 100 favorite not greatest.

[-p.tiddy-]

I want to make my list tonight since it looks like we won't get a group vote going...

hope I have time to...I might not...it will take a while to formulate

[-p.tiddy-]

Top 50


Rapper (Impact, Lyrics, Flow, Fame) **** sales, screws over newer artists. Ice Cube is in with the terrible criteria. Let me know who I'm missing.

1. Jay-Z (9,7,8,10)
2. Tupac (10,7,7,10)
3. Biggie (9,7,9,9)
4. Eminem (7, 9, 9, 9)
5. Nas (6, 10, 9, 8)
6. Lil Wayne (9, 6, 7, 10)
7. Wu-Tang Clan (7, 8, 8, 8)
8. Rakim (10, 8, 6, 7)
9. Kanye West (10, 6, 7, 8)
10. Lauryn Hill (8, 8, 8, 7)
11. Snoop Dogg (7, 6, 7, 10)
12. NWA (9, 5, 8, 8)
13. The Roots (7, 8, 8, 7)
14. Ice Cube (8, 6, 6, 10)
15. RZA (8, 7, 8, 8)
16. Scarface (7, 7, 8, 7)
17. Andre 3000 (7, 7, 7, 8)
18. GZA (6, 9, 7, 7)
19. 50 Cent (7, 5, 6, 10)
20. Busta Rhymes (6, 6, 8, 8)
21. Ludacris (7, 7, 7, 7)
22. Method Man (6, 7, 8, 7)
23. Run DMC (8, 6, 6, 8)
24. Common (6, 7, 7, 8)
25. A Tribe Called Quest (7, 7, 7, 7)
26. Big Pun (5, 8, 8, 6)
27. Mos Def (6, 8, 7, 7)
28. Outkast (7, 6, 7, 8)
29. Bun B (7, 6, 8, 7)
30. Public Enemy (8, 5, 6, 9)
31. Lupe Fiasco (6, 10, 7, 5)
32. Q-Tip (7, 7, 8, 6)
33. Dr. Dre (8, 2, 7, 10)
34. Big L (5, 7, 8, 7)
35. UGK (7, 5, 7, 8)
36. TI (6, 6, 6, 9)
37. MC Lyte (8, 6, 7, 6)
38. Big Daddy Kane (7, 5, 8, 7)
39. Immortal Technique (5, 10, 7, 5)
40. Beastie Boys (8, 6, 6, 7)
41. KRS One (10, 4, 5, 8)
42. Aesop Rock (4, 10, 8, 5)
43. MF DOOM (5, 8, 9, 5)
44. Mobb Deep (6, 7, 7, 7)
45. Rick Ross (8, 4, 5, 10)
46. Queen Latifah (8, 5, 5, 9)
47. AZ (5, 9, 9, 4)
48. Slick Rick (6, 8, 7, 6)
49. Elzhi (3, 10, 9, 4)
50. Eazy E (7, 5, 6, 8)

this is a decent list, I think the biggest issue I have with it is Dre that low

Dre's impact on hip hop is completely off the charts...was there a single CD that had more influence or impact in the 90s than The Chronic?...that was all Dre's doing.

You have Lil Wayne (who SHOULD be top-50 I think) above Dr. Dre...just think about that for a second.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/19/Dr.DreTheChronic.jpg/220px-Dr.DreTheChronic.jpg


^^^ if you don't know how much impact that had on rap, then you were NOT listening to rap music when it came out, or even 2-3 years after

[ace23]

^^^ if you don't know how much impact that had on rap, then you were NOT listening to rap music when it came out, or even 2-3 years after
Though I've heard the CD, I was not, TBH.

[Lamar Doom]

doom could you even name 10 gucci songs?

that list makes ace look sane.

Nope, but everything I've ever heard him do is embarrassingly shitty.

I'm all about "to each his own" and "different strokes for different folks" but you like a lot of garbage. "Music" that I'm convinced is intentionally shitty. Sanity questions from you in this respect are disregardable.



Looks like Doom named his 100 favorite not greatest.

Nope, those are the 100 greatest (more or less, I don't really think the Bush Babees are the 41st best act in hip hop history). I don't accept some of your criteria is all. I really don't understand this "this is my favorite but it's not the greatest" mentality. Just accepting that others' opinion somehow trumps yours.

[L.Kizzle]

Nope, those are the 100 greatest (more or less). I don't accept some of your criteria is all. I really don't understand this "this is my favorite but it's not the greatest" mentality. Just accepting that others' opinion somehow trumps yours.
Master P is my favorite rapper, but he would not be number one on my greatest list.

[Lamar Doom]

Master P is my favorite rapper, but he would not be number one on my greatest list.

That's why these lists (especially at the top) always look the same.

[Rendezvous32]

i definitely think you haven't heard anything. he is one of the most technically skilled rappers of the past 10 years. i would spend the time showing examples but i think it would go wasted. if you want though, i'll do it.

i just like good rap, don't know why you haven't gotten out of the teenage backpacker phase that ace is in right now when you're a 30 year old man.

Please do it.

[L.Kizzle]

That's why these lists (especially at the top) always look the same.
But seriously, what has Dilated Peoples done to be ranked above Tupac or hell even Scarface and Mobb Deep?

[Gundress]

I respect Lamar Doom list more so **** everybody else bullshit ass list mfer especially Al Thorton.

Lamar Doom's list :applause:

[Rendezvous32]

I respect Lamar Doom list more so **** everybody else bullshit ass list mfer especially Al Thorton.

Lamar Doom's list :applause:

Get off of his scrotum you fake f*ck ch!nk

[ace23]

I don't accept some of your criteria is all. I really don't understand this "this is my favorite but it's not the greatest" mentality. Just accepting that others' opinion somehow trumps yours.
:applause:

Tired of dudes regurgitating opinions they've read.

[Gundress]

Get off of his scrotum you fake f*ck ch!nk


You didn't exist to me mfer so who the f*ck are you mfer?....you know what I don't even want to know you mfer.

[Rendezvous32]

You didn't exist to me mfer so who the f*ck are you mfer?....you know what I don't even want to know you mfer.

Drop the gimmick. Americans don't talk that way you stupid yellow faced f@ggot. Try typing in a coherent English sentence. Oh wait, let me guess, you're inebriated? :oldlol:

[L.Kizzle]

:applause:

Tired of dudes regurgitating opinions they've read.
What, is your favorite player Jordan? Mine sure as hell isn't I still know he's the greatest. Clyde Drexler is my favorite player, no where near the greatest.

I mean Biggie was number one on his list, a very popular choice with everyone.

[Gundress]

What, is your favorite player Jordan? Mine sure as hell isn't I still know he's the greatest. Clyde Drexler is my favorite player, no where near the greatest.

I mean Biggie was number one on his list, a very popular choice with everyone.


HIS TITLE SAID "Greatest" mfer and you guys picekd Gucci Mane and Lil' Wayne, Lil' B, Young Jeezy mfer?.......GET REAL MFER.

[ace23]

What, is your favorite player Jordan? Mine sure as hell isn't I still know he's the greatest. Clyde Drexler is my favorite player, no where near the greatest.

I mean Biggie was number one on his list, a very popular choice with everyone.
Unfair comparison. There's no way to measure someone's rapping "greatness", but there are stats in basketball.

[L.Kizzle]

Unfair comparison. There's no way to measure someone's rapping "greatness", but there are stats in basketball.
There is somewhat stats in music too. Influence, Sales and Fame are somewhat stats.

[L.Kizzle]

I respect Lamar Doom list more so **** everybody else bullshit ass list mfer especially Al Thorton.

Lamar Doom's list :applause:
Where is your list MFer?

[andgar923]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxOME_BZdBk

if you can't recognize that as great rapping you don't belong in this thread or any rap discussion.

But it isn't.

Not horrible, I've heard much worse, but def not great either.

For the record, that style of rapping loses points due to the simple format and cadence, shit is very basic to be honest. Rappers from the mid-late 80s (specially late 80s) are def better than this. This is a very simple formula to do, don't see how people don't see this.

[L.Kizzle]

But it isn't.

Not horrible, I've heard much worse, but def not great either.

For the record, that style of rapping loses points due to the simple format and cadence, shit is very basic to be honest. Rappers from the mid-late 80s (specially late 80s) are def better than this. This is a very simple formula to do, don't see how people don't see this.
The beats per minute in hip-hop has went down tremendously. It used to be in the 120-130's not it's barley 80beats per minute.

[Gundress]

I will do later on or tomorrow or will some day when I am ready but this thread is f*cking joke and nobody take seriously

[andgar923]

there's a craft and style to it that makes it much better than if he were to just string metaphors and punchlines together. but you don't belong in this thread for other reasons such as having not listened to any rap in the past 10 years.

LOL this dude.

There's nothing special or clever about this style, it's very basic and simple actually. Funny you mention the entire string of metaphors and punchlines, since that's a trademark of that type of style.

[andgar923]

There's certain elements that are critical to 'rapping'.

Rapping depends on some of the following elements:

Breath control
Verbal gymnastic
timing
Rhythm

And the style of rapping determines how difficult these elements are.

If I'm rapping at a slow pace, with fewer words and a specific format (see Al's video), some of these elements don't have to be as difficult to perform. Creating lyrics isn't as hard when your breath control isn't difficult, joining lines isn't as hard when the syllables and words are shorter and simpler, timing is much easier when the bpm is slow, all of these things combine to make it either easy or difficult to actually rap.

I can guarantee that very few rappers can perform this song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWYR9AIxWy8

let alone create it and perform it as well.

I remember watching TI at a VH1 Hip Hop Honors completely f*ck up and struggle to perform a song by Kane *I believe it was Kane's* and he isn't a bad rapper.

I know some will then say that Bone Thugs should get high praise because they rapped super fast, and yes they deserve some props for that. But it isn't the end all.

[andgar923]

[QUOTE=Al Thornton]it's not supposed to be compared to new york lyrical lyricism. but the it's very impressive and takes a lot of skill. having timing and rapping on beat are skills that seem simple but the majority of rappers lack.

"Gucci got a warrant how da **** I get subpoenaed?
objection whats the objection your honor I

[RidonKs]

Who are some of your favorites today? I'll try to do another top 50; don't expect it anytime soon, though.
blu's my favourite at the moment. of the newer generation, jay electronica (when he gets around to actually releasing something), lupe (when he gets around to actually releasing something good), asap, plies, damu and panacea and that whole washington camp, action bronson, shad, kendrick, krit. guys who have been around for a while who i still actively seek out, killer mike, jurassic 5, the roots, luda, onebelo, doom, ti, ugk, outkast, masta ace, jay-z, nas though he's mostly misses of late, slum, cunninlynguists, boot camp clik

none of that including the less active greats of yesteryear

[ace23]

blu's my favourite at the moment. of the newer generation, jay electronica (when he gets around to actually releasing something), lupe (when he gets around to actually releasing something good), asap, plies, damu and panacea and that whole washington camp, action bronson, shad, kendrick, krit. guys who have been around for a while who i still actively seek out, killer mike, jurassic 5, the roots, luda, onebelo, doom, ti, ugk, outkast, masta ace, jay-z, nas though he's mostly misses of late, slum, cunninlynguists, boot camp clik

none of that including the less active greats of yesteryear
Very diverse list. Good shit. :applause: I'm thinking in the back of my mind that your perception of rappers has been skewed by their beat selection, but you've probably already refuted that idea. Just throwing that out there; the production could be that "it" factor that those ultra-lyrical guys don't have.

Have you heard KICKPUSH and Blue Chips?

[andgar923]

Very diverse list. Good shit. :applause: I'm thinking in the back of my mind that your perception of rappers has been skewed by their beat selection, but you've probably already refuted that idea. Just throwing that out there; the production could be that "it" factor that those ultra-lyrical guys don't have.

Have you heard KICKPUSH and Blue Chips?

A beat can be very critical on how a rapper performs. Some beats just bring a certain style out of a rapper.

[WhiteMosɘs]

blu's my favourite at the moment. of the newer generation, jay electronica (when he gets around to actually releasing something), lupe (when he gets around to actually releasing something good), asap, plies, damu and panacea and that whole washington camp, action bronson, shad, kendrick, krit. guys who have been around for a while who i still actively seek out, killer mike, jurassic 5, the roots, luda, onebelo, doom, ti, ugk, outkast, masta ace, jay-z, nas though he's mostly misses of late, slum, cunninlynguists, boot camp clik

none of that including the less active greats of yesteryear

How as of late are you talking? Nas has been batting sh it out the park for the last little while.

[WhiteMosɘs]

the very latest one is one of the worst songs i've heard this year. very embarrassing for an all time great.

That's pretty typical Nas rhetoric. "Bad beat selection" and what not. Probably wasn't good timing with the hot streak he's been on, but still, I don't mind the song.

[ace23]

That's pretty typical Nas rhetoric. "Bad beat selection" and what not. Probably wasn't good timing with the hot streak he's been on, but still, I don't mind the song.
Are you talking about The Don???

[RidonKs]

fans of action bronson, doesn't it bother you that he is jacking another rapper's style completely?
not if he does it well, his voice and style are perfect fits for his production


How as of late are you talking? Nas has been batting sh it out the park for the last little while.
he's had a few hot singles but nothing he's dropped as of late has been anything better than mediocre and some of it just straight up corny


I'm thinking in the back of my mind that your perception of rappers has been skewed by their beat selection, but you've probably already refuted that idea.
unquestionably. it's one half of the equation. i wouldn't call it 'skewed' though.

havent heard of either of those two

[ace23]

No, they're not rappers; they're Bronson and One Be Lo's mixtape and album respectively. :lol

[WhiteMosɘs]

he's had a few hot singles but nothing he's dropped as of late has been anything better than mediocre and some of it just straight up corny




Hot singles and hot features. Can't think of what you'd call corny, except the another black girl song.


Are you talking about The Don???

Part of the streak, yeah.

Where the fu ck is Al's list, I wanna read that.

[ace23]

So "The Don" is the track you "don't mind"?

[WhiteMosɘs]

So "The Don" is the track you "don't mind"?

No man, I love The Don. I was defending "Another Black Girl" (isn't that what it's called?). I liked it. "Don't mind" wasn't meant to sound dismissive.

[WhiteMosɘs]

i know he was on nicki's album too but i've only heard the song once and it was trash so i can't remember the verse.

It's not trash. Nicki spits it RAW, Drake drops off a "Stay Schemin"-esque verse, Jeezy mostly sucks though. Nas kills it though. Re-listen.