Michael Jordan memo to Kobe Bryant:

[brain drain]

Don't know if the frontcourt advantage of the 1992 team would be all that big.

Especially against Barkley, 2012 team could put Bron at the 4 (and Barkley doesn't win that matchup) and Durant at the 3 versus Pippen (which also would be a favorable matchup for the 2012 team).

Then it would be DRob vs Chandler at center, which imo wouldn't be that much of a problem because defensively, Chandler is more than competent and while DRob is a much better offensive player, it wouldn't be that much of a problem because there's only one ball and Chandler is pretty damn good at converting the gimmes at a high percentage.

[Legends66NBA7]

Yes, LBJ would be the most talented player on the floor at that position, but I don't see that as any great advantage. As we saw this year, LeBron is most effective when he takes the ball to the basket consistently. With the likes of Ewing and DRob controlling the lane, that isn't happening.

Plus, they'd stick Pippin on him. I'd love to see that matchup.

They also have Durant and Melo too. So to me LeBron/Durant/Melo > Pippen/Mullin/Bird(as old as he was)...

Yeah, It would be really fun to watch LeBron vs Pippen.



All I can tell you is to get your hands on some of the '92 team games, and everything will become very clear.

I have caught some of their games, but not in their entirety. Will do :cheers:

[OhNoTimNoSho]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[Mr Exlax]

All I can tell you is to get your hands on some of the '92 team games, and everything will become very clear.

See that's where the problem is right there. Look at the talent level of the teams that they played against in '92. That's why they were blowing everybody out bro. That's why I can't factor in all those blowouts. If I'm trying to compare them to the 2012 team then those games mean nothing to me.

[Legends66NBA7]

Especially against Barkley, 2012 team could put Bron at the 4 (and Barkley doesn't win that matchup) and Durant at the 3 versus Pippen (which also would be a favorable matchup for the 2012 team).

Then it would be DRob vs Chandler at center, which imo wouldn't be that much of a problem because defensively, Chandler is more than competent and while DRob is a clearly better offensive player, it wouldn't be that much of a problem because there's only one ball and Chandler is pretty damn good at converting the gimmes at a high percentage.

I agree with you on Barkley vs LeBron. I do think LeBron could cause some problems with his speed bothering Barkley, unless Barkley could overpower him.

Pippen vs Durant to me is a wash if they go one on one. I think I would favor Pippen, just because he would try to bully Durant a bit more, which I don't think Durant is too comfortable with yet.

Robinson has the advantage no matter what, I even think Robinson > Chandler on defense. You're right though with ball possession, so I don't know how much of role these two would play.

[Mr Exlax]

Ha true...

I just love how everybody acts like their opinions are fact.

My opinion on this...I have no clue who would win. I am a product of the 80's and 90's so of course I'm bias to those guys. But to say our current team would have no chance is just nonsense.

I'm 100% with you on that Dirty. Hell the only reason why I'm arguing for the 2012 team is because they're the minority lol. I'm going to try and actually compare the teams one of these days lol.

[Round Mound]

Kobe < MJ Get ****en Real. :rolleyes: :facepalm

-Jordan Was Too Athletic for Kobe. His Potent Driving Blazing Speed and Foot Quickness Is Too Much For Kobe. Kobe Would Just Shoot From the Outside For Poor% Shots

Lebron < Barkley

Lebron Could Only Shoot Far Away Jumpers for Poor % Shots...Barkley Would Destroy and Kill Lebron in the Post: 58.13% FG for 21.6 PPG on 12.9 Two-Point FGAs PG and 55.13% Two-Point FGA for 22.5 PPG on 14.5 Two-Point FGAs PG

Magic > Westbrook...By Miles

Durant = Pippen

Robinson > Tyson

Bench: Malone, Bird, Ewing, Stockton, Mullin, Drexler etc...Much Better Bench

[brain drain]

Lebron < Barkley

Lebron Could Only Shoot Far Away Jumpers for Poor % Shots...Barkley Would Destroy and Kill Lebron in the Post: 58.13% FG for 21.6 PPG on 12.9 Two-Point FGAs PG and 55.13% Two-Point FGA for 22.5 PPG on 14.5 Two-Point FGAs PG


LOL. Barkley's fantastic defense forcing poor LBJ to take long jumpers...

[Round Mound]

LOL. Barkley's fantastic defense forcing poor LBJ to take long jumpers...

Thats All Lebron would do Because In the Post He Has Nothing On Anyone :confusedshrug: . He Still has a Weak Post Game Fact! and His Shooting Has Gotten Better but Its No Where Near Durant, Kobes or Birds Touch

Plus the Team Would Actually Be Both Malone and Barkley at the PFs

Barkley was THE ZONE BUSTER and THE BEST OLYMPIC PLAYER OF ALL TIME

[RRR3]

Thats All Lebron would do Because In the Post He Has Nothing On Anyone :confusedshrug: . He Still has a Weak Post Game Fact! and His Shooting Has Gotten Better but Its No Where Near Durant, Kobes or Birds Touch

Plus the Team Would Actually Be both Malone and Barkley at the PFs
Lebron>Barkley deal with it

[Droid101]

It would definitely be a better game than Jordan thinks. 92 had no bench.

[KG215]

Yeah I mean he never lost in the first round of the playoffs multiple times.

You talking about Jordan?

In the 1985 playoffs they lost to the Moncrief/Cummings/Pressey Bucks. Jordan had Orlando Woolridge (nice player but never an All-Star), and Quintin Dailey. Then they lost to the loaded mid-80s Celtics the next two years in the first round. In 1986 all he still had was Woolridge, Dailey, and a 33 year old Gervin. The next year, in 1987, he had a young Oakley and Paxson. Finally got over the hump in 1988 against a pretty talented and deep Cavs team with Mark Price, Larry Nance, Brad Daugherty, Ron Harper, and Hot Rod Williams; no superstars but it was still a deeper team than what Jordan was working with.

[Round Mound]

Lebron>Barkley deal with it

As a SF yes but NOT AS A PF :no:

[jlip]

As a backdrop, I've recently wanted several of the '08 team's games, and all eight of the Dream Team games. When the '92 team got revved up, they would slaughter any team in the history of the game.

its just that simple.



All I can tell you is to get your hands on some of the '92 team games, and everything will become very clear.

I saw them live in '92 also and have watched some of their games since then. You cannot make an assessment of how they would handle the '12 team based upon how they performed against what amounted to as a bunch of vastly inferior, undeveloped international fans who were just happy to be on the same court as those NBA stars in '92. I remember there was one international player who had Magic guarding him and actually beckoned to his teammate on the bench to have him take a picture of that moment.

Using how the '92 team manhandled their "competition" as the barometer for how they would play against the '12 team is like saying that since a group of NBA all stars defeated a team full of high schoolers that they would dominate another team of all stars the same way. Even Barkley had to admit that in the very next Olympics in '96 the international players were not as in awe as they were in '92 of the NBA players. While I would expect the '92 team to win primarily due to their frontcourt advantage, I just don't see them totally demolishing the '12 team.

[Remix]

Magic would have fits with defending Westbrook. Especially the 1992 version of Magic.

[Legends66NBA7]

It would definitely be a better game than Jordan thinks. 92 had no bench.

Bullshit.


You talking about Jordan?

In the 1985 playoffs they lost to the Moncrief/Cummings/Pressey Bucks. Jordan had Orlando Woolridge (nice player but never an All-Star), and Quintin Dailey. Then they lost to the loaded mid-80s Celtics the next two years in the first round. In 1986 all he still had was Woolridge, Dailey, and a 33 year old Gervin. The next year he had a young Oakley and Paxson.

Nah, don't use context in your post. :oldlol:


@RRR3, you going pick who's going to win in 7 games and by how many games ?

[RRR3]

Bullshit.



Nah, don't use context in your post. :oldlol:


@RRR3, you going pick who's going to win in 7 games and by how many games ?
No I'm not educated enough about the dream team lol

[KG215]

It would definitely be a better game than Jordan thinks. 92 had no bench.

Say they start this lineup, and keep in mind Magic and Stockton were limited, so they did play this lineup a lot...

PG Pippen
SG Jordan
SF Drexler
PF Barkley
C Robinson

So, having Ewing, Malone, Mullin, Magic, and Stockton means "no bench", but the 2012 team having Deron, Westbrook, Melo, Love, Blake, Iggy, and Harden does?

How about making a lineup of just the benches, and you tell me which one is better...

PG Magic
SG Stockton
SF Mullin
PF Malone
C Ewing

vs.

PG Deron
SG Westbrook
SF Melo
PF Blake
C Love

Or move Melo to PF for Blake and put Iggy in at SF. The 1992 team didn't have a bench? What the hell are you smoking?

[brain drain]

I saw them live in '92 also and have watched some of their games since then. You cannot make an assessment of how they would handle the '12 team based upon how they performed against what amounted to as a bunch of vastly inferior, undeveloped international fans who were just happy to be on the same court as those NBA stars in '92. I remember there was one international player who had Magic guarding him and actually beckoned to his teammate on the bench to have him take a picture of that moment.

Using how the '92 team manhandled their "competition" as the barometer for how they would play against the '12 team is like saying that since a group of NBA all stars defeated a team full of high schoolers that they would dominate another team of all stars the same way. Even Barkley had to admit that in the very next Olympics in '96 the international players were not as in awe as they were in '92 of the NBA players. While I would expect the '92 team to win primarily due to their frontcourt advantage, I just don't see them totally demolishing the '12 team.

Exactly. Just count the number of non-US-NBA players in the competition in 92 and in 2012 and you know what's up, without even considering the fact that the other leagues have improved a LOT since then.

[Legends66NBA7]

The 1992 team didn't have a bench? What the hell are you smoking?

As I said before, bullshit (of the 92 team not having a bench.)

:cheers:

[Round Mound]

Say they start this lineup, and keep in mind Magic and Stockton were limited, so they did play this lineup a lot...

PG Pippen
SG Jordan
SF Drexler
PF Barkley
C Robinson

So, having Ewing, Malone, Mullin, Magic, and Stockton means "no bench", but the 2012 team having Deron, Westbrook, Melo, Love, Blake, Iggy, and Harden does?

How about making a lineup of just the benches, and you tell me which one is better...

PG Magic
SG Stockton
SF Mullin
PF Malone
C Ewing

vs.

PG Deron
SG Westbrook
SF Melo
PF Blake
C Love

Or move Melo to PF for Blake and put Iggy in at SF. The 1992 team didn't have a bench? What the hell are you smoking?

:applause:

[Rake2204]

Say they start this lineup, and keep in mind Magic and Stockton were limited, so they did play this lineup a lot...

PG Pippen
SG Jordan
SF Drexler
PF Barkley
C Robinson

So, having Ewing, Malone, Mullin, Magic, and Stockton means "no bench", but the 2012 team having Deron, Westbrook, Melo, Love, Blake, Iggy, and Harden does?

How about making a lineup of just the benches, and you tell me which one is better...

PG Magic
SG Stockton
SF Mullin
PF Malone
C Ewing

vs.

PG Deron
SG Westbrook
SF Melo
PF Blake
C Love

Or move Melo to PF for Blake and put Iggy in at SF. The 1992 team didn't have a bench? What the hell are you smoking?
I'm in full agreement with you on that one. I was going to address that statement if you did not.

I think the comparison of the '92 team to the '12 squad is a lot less about 1-on-1 matchups than what many people are suggesting. I don't think it's a matter of saying, "Jordan > Bryant and James > Pippen", regardless of whether they're true statements or not. The '92 Dream Team is just one continuous wave of Hall of Famers. It never stops and it never drops off. Would the drop off be Chris Mullin, the shooter coming off a 26ppg season on 52% shooting? John Stockton? The all-time leader in assists and steals?

For me, the absurdly high level of depth on the '92 squad is the largest difference between the two teams. If Russell Westbrook attacks David Robinson and draws two quick fouls on him, who's going to pick up the slack? Well, that'd more than likely fall on the shoulders of Hall of Fame center Patrick Ewing. No big deal. And if Magic rolls an ankle, who's running point? Oh, John Stockton. Conversely, say David Robinson gives Tyson all he can handle inside and Tyson finds himself in heavy foul trouble early. Who will spell him? Kevin Love. Not shabby, but it's not Patrick Ewing. And if Chris Paul needs a breather? 40% shooting Deron Williams. Again, great player, not John Stockton. The examples, of course, only run deeper.

[KG215]

Bullshit.
Nah, don't use context in your post. :oldlol:


Are you talking about my post or his post?

[Legends66NBA7]

Are you talking about my post or his post?

Him, obviously.

You're post was right on the button. :cheers:

He just said "well he had multiple playoff first round exits"... but didn't show how shit those teams Jordan was on. It's not like Jordan didn't hold his own for at least 2 of those 3 series.

[Smoke117]

I don't know if DRob & Ewing are just gonna score with the greatest of ease against Chandler. Chandler won't get shut down by them because most of his points are gonna come from the rebounds and dump off passes for easy dunks anyway.

Malone and Barkley both are gonna buttrape Bosh on offense, but how are they going to stop him on defense? They're both too short and slower than him.

So that's enough to slaughter them? Who's gonna stop Lebron? Pippen? Pippen is weaker, shorter, lighter, slower than Lebron. Jordan will eat Kobe because it's the old Kobe, it's a toss up at the PG position to me. I'll give it to 2012 because the players are bigger, stronger and faster. Oh and they have DWill.

Slower? A 1992 Scottie Pippen is by no means slower than Lebron right now. The guy weighs 260lbs and a 1992 Pippen probably weighs around 215 or so pounds. This was before Pippen really added muscle on and he was quick as hell. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eCW1TxGXO0 Scottie Pippen is one of the greatest open court players of all time. He was athletic, had huge strides because of his length, could pass, and could finish with the best of them.

Frankly I would put Pippen on Durant as Durant is not quick enough to drive by him and likes to shoot mostly jumpers and Pippen's long arms and active hands would really bother him. Barkley is a better match up for Lebron. In a marquee match up like that he's not going to be lazy defensively and he has strength to bother Lebron. Seems to me a lot of people forget how athletic Barkley was. He may not have looked like the typical athlete, but he was extremely athletic in his youth.

[tontoz]

Seems to me a lot of people forget how athletic Barkley was. He may not have looked like the typical athlete, but he was extremely athletic in his youth.


True, and Barkley's strength was waist down while Lebron is more top heavy. Lebron would have no chance guarding barkley in the post. Not only that the effort of trying to guard him could slow him down on offense. He is not used to guarding post players.

[brain drain]

Barkley is a better match up for Lebron. In a marquee match up like that he's not going to be lazy defensively and he has strength to bother Lebron. Seems to me a lot of people forget how athletic Barkley was. He may not have looked like the typical athlete, but he was extremely athletic in his youth.

Come on, don't pretend that Charles was a great defender who was just lazy and could turn it up when he wanted. He simply was a very bad defender, period. To think that he could suddenly step it up against Lebron of all people is a little absurd.

[Glide2keva]

Slower? A 1992 Scottie Pippen is by no means slower than Lebron right now. The guy weighs 260lbs and a 1992 Pippen probably weighs around 215 or so pounds. This was before Pippen really added muscle on and he was quick as hell. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eCW1TxGXO0 Scottie Pippen is one of the greatest open court players of all time. He was athletic, had huge strides because of his length, could pass, and could finish with the best of them.

Frankly I would put Pippen on Durant as Durant is not quick enough to drive by him and likes to shoot mostly jumpers and Pippen's long arms and active hands would really bother him. Barkley is a better match up for Lebron. In a marquee match up like that he's not going to be lazy defensively and he has strength to bother Lebron. Seems to me a lot of people forget how athletic Barkley was. He may not have looked like the typical athlete, but he was extremely athletic in his youth.
And the thing they forget is that these are PRIME players we are talking about. Not old and washed, except for Bird.

[brain drain]

Oh, and by the way, here's a prime example what Charles Barkley's defense looks like. (http://jonathanturley.org/2009/01/02/the-barkley-defense-yes-im-drunk-but-im-horny-too/)

It's hilarious, but absolutely ineffective. He's not gonna stop anyone or anything with that sh!t.

[Scoooter]

1992 Patrick Ewing and David Robinson v. Tyson Chandler and Chris Bosh and whatever else we're pretending is a center? And then you throw in guys like pre-MVP Barkley and a young Karl Malone? Please.

[Smoke117]

Come on, don't pretend that Charles was a great defender who was just lazy and could turn it up when he wanted. He simply was a very bad defender, period. To think that he could suddenly step it up against Lebron of all people is a little absurd.

No he wasn't. He was just lazy and didn't really give a shit until the playoffs came around as far as playing defense. Besides I never said he'd shut down Lebron I just think it's a better match up than Pippen is. Even putting Pippen on Durant may be a mistake. Scottie always did his most damage defensively when he was able to play off the ball and roam around utilizing which was the best help defense in the league. Either way the huge advantage the Dream Team has is that they can go all out defensively on the ball, go for more steals etc because they Have David Robinson (who just won DPOY that season) and Patrick Ewing back there protecting the paint. They can funnel their man into the Centers. The 2012 team can't do that. Tyson Chandler is an absolute joke defensively compared to Robinson and Ewing.

[swag2011]

:oldlol: I love how Kobe's making everyone mad :bowdown: Has the whole world talking lol

[NuggetsFan]

What are the rules? I remember D.Jones shutting down C.Paul. Could only imagine how he'd fare against those guy's. I think it'd go either way. Different result every time. Neither team would dominate the other. If I had to put money on it I'd go with the dream team tho. They're post play is another level when you look at it.

[Shepseskaf]

Using how the '92 team manhandled their "competition" as the barometer for how they would play against the '12 team is like saying that since a group of NBA all stars defeated a team full of high schoolers that they would dominate another team of all stars the same way.
This is completely untrue, and proves that you need to watch the games again, as suggested.

Some of the teams, Angola for instance, were clearly just content to be on the court with the Dream Team. However, Croatia and Brazil fielded very good teams, with a number of players who were playing, would play, or could play in the NBA.

As a matter of fact, that Croatia team would give the '12 team a good test. Brazil had a bunch of athletes, and would also be a challenge.

Quiet as its kept, the Gold Medal game against Croatia was pretty tight for most of the first half.

So, not all of the teams were analogous to "high schoolers". That's just a myth perpetrated by people who don't know what they're talking about.

[ispin69]

Kobe=MJ

:biggums: Stopped reading there.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[KG215]

I'm in full agreement with you on that one. I was going to address that statement if you did not.

I think the comparison of the '92 team to the '12 squad is a lot less about 1-on-1 matchups than what many people are suggesting. I don't think it's a matter of saying, "Jordan > Bryant and James > Pippen", regardless of whether they're true statements or not. The '92 Dream Team is just one continuous wave of Hall of Famers. It never stops and it never drops off. Would the drop off be Chris Mullin, the shooter coming off a 26ppg season on 52% shooting? John Stockton? The all-time leader in assists and steals?

For me, the absurdly high level of depth on the '92 squad is the largest difference between the two teams. If Russell Westbrook attacks David Robinson and draws two quick fouls on him, who's going to pick up the slack? Well, that'd more than likely fall on the shoulders of Hall of Fame center Patrick Ewing. No big deal. And if Magic rolls an ankle, who's running point? Oh, John Stockton. Conversely, say David Robinson gives Tyson all he can handle inside and Tyson finds himself in heavy foul trouble early. Who will spell him? Kevin Love. Not shabby, but it's not Patrick Ewing. And if Chris Paul needs a breather? 40% shooting Deron Williams. Again, great player, not John Stockton. The examples, of course, only run deeper.

This. The drop-off from the '92 team's starters to second unit isn't as big as the drop-off from the '12 team's best players to the bench. You're going from a starting lineup of 5 HOFers (all in their prime if you go with the starting lineup I used) to a second unit of 5 HOFers (all in their prime except Magic) on the '92 team. With the '12 team you're going from sure fire HOFers in LeBron, Kobe, and more than likely Durant, to guys like Westbrook, Love, Iggy, and Harden.

[raptorfan_dr07]

I understand basketball.

You apparently don't when you say utter bullsh*t like this:


In terms of skill/peak, I think that the MJ/Kobe gap is like splitting hairs.

Early 90's Jordan is the greatest perimeter player to ever play the game. Only other wing players close to him are Magic and Bird. Those three are in a class of their own when it comes to perimeter players. Prime Kobe isn't even as good as Wizards Jordan. Wizards Jordan was a smarter scorer/player, better passer, better rebounder, and better team leader. He was still clutch as hell too.

Kobe is an overrated piece of sh*t who would be no better than Mitch Richmond if he played in the 90's. The p*ssy cries to the refs every time someone so much as looks at him. Physical defenses take him out of the game and shut him completely down as history has shown us(Pistons, Celtics, hell even OKC). He's nothing more than a low efficient chucker who forced his way out of a small market team on draft night to play with one of the most dominant players of all time. He was carried to three straight championships, and then tried his best to chuck his team out of another if it weren't for Pau Gasol, Ron Artest, and Derek Fisher making big plays against the Celtics in 2010.

Kobe does NOTHING better than Jordan, NOTHING. Oh wait, he does, he's better at chucking low percentage shots, quitting during playoff series', and alienating his teammates. He's a front runner who quits when his team is behind(see 06 vs Phoenix, 08 vs Boston, 11 vs Dallas).

Dream Team>>>>>>>>2012 Team. I'd love to see Jordan/Pippen taking turns manhandling Kobe and Lebron. I'd love to see a front line of Chandler/Griffin/Love trying to stop Ewing/Robinson/Malone/Barkley. CP3/Westbrook/DWill against Magic/Stock? Please.

[Heavincent]

Early 90's Jordan is the greatest perimeter player to ever play the game. Only other wing players close to him are Magic and Bird. Those three are in a class of their own when it comes to perimeter players. Prime Kobe isn't even as good as Wizards Jordan. Wizards Jordan was a smarter scorer/player, better passer, better rebounder, and better team leader. He was still clutch as hell too.

Kobe is an overrated piece of sh*t who would be no better than Mitch Richmond if he played in the 90's. The p*ssy cries to the refs every time someone so much as looks at him. Physical defenses take him out of the game and shut him completely down as history has shown us(Pistons, Celtics, hell even OKC). He's nothing more than a low efficient chucker who forced his way out of a small market team on draft night to play with one of the most dominant players of all time. He was carried to three straight championships, and then tried his best to chuck his team out of another if it weren't for Pau Gasol, Ron Artest, and Derek Fisher making big plays against the Celtics in 2010.

Kobe does NOTHING better than Jordan, NOTHING. Oh wait, he does, he's better at chucking low percentage shots, quitting during playoff series', and alienating his teammates. He's a front runner who quits when his team is behind(see 06 vs Phoenix, 08 vs Boston, 11 vs Dallas).


:roll:

[Noob Saibot]

You apparently don't when you say utter bullsh*t like this:



Early 90's Jordan is the greatest perimeter player to ever play the game. Only other wing players close to him are Magic and Bird. Those three are in a class of their own when it comes to perimeter players. Prime Kobe isn't even as good as Wizards Jordan. Wizards Jordan was a smarter scorer/player, better passer, better rebounder, and better team leader. He was still clutch as hell too.

Kobe is an overrated piece of sh*t who would be no better than Mitch Richmond if he played in the 90's. The p*ssy cries to the refs every time someone so much as looks at him. Physical defenses take him out of the game and shut him completely down as history has shown us(Pistons, Celtics, hell even OKC). He's nothing more than a low efficient chucker who forced his way out of a small market team on draft night to play with one of the most dominant players of all time. He was carried to three straight championships, and then tried his best to chuck his team out of another if it weren't for Pau Gasol, Ron Artest, and Derek Fisher making big plays against the Celtics in 2010.

Kobe does NOTHING better than Jordan, NOTHING. Oh wait, he does, he's better at chucking low percentage shots, quitting during playoff series', and alienating his teammates. He's a front runner who quits when his team is behind(see 06 vs Phoenix, 08 vs Boston, 11 vs Dallas).

Dream Team>>>>>>>>2012 Team. I'd love to see Jordan/Pippen taking turns manhandling Kobe and Lebron. I'd love to see a front line of Chandler/Griffin/Love trying to stop Ewing/Robinson/Malone/Barkley. CP3/Westbrook/DWill against Magic/Stock? Please.

These Kobtards are high in LaLa land. Don't waste your breath.

[RazorBaLade]

You apparently don't when you say utter bullsh*t like this:



Early 90's Jordan is the greatest perimeter player to ever play the game. Only other wing players close to him are Magic and Bird. Those three are in a class of their own when it comes to perimeter players. Prime Kobe isn't even as good as Wizards Jordan. Wizards Jordan was a smarter scorer/player, better passer, better rebounder, and better team leader. He was still clutch as hell too.

Kobe is an overrated piece of sh*t who would be no better than Mitch Richmond if he played in the 90's. The p*ssy cries to the refs every time someone so much as looks at him. Physical defenses take him out of the game and shut him completely down as history has shown us(Pistons, Celtics, hell even OKC). He's nothing more than a low efficient chucker who forced his way out of a small market team on draft night to play with one of the most dominant players of all time. He was carried to three straight championships, and then tried his best to chuck his team out of another if it weren't for Pau Gasol, Ron Artest, and Derek Fisher making big plays against the Celtics in 2010.

Kobe does NOTHING better than Jordan, NOTHING. Oh wait, he does, he's better at chucking low percentage shots, quitting during playoff series', and alienating his teammates. He's a front runner who quits when his team is behind(see 06 vs Phoenix, 08 vs Boston, 11 vs Dallas).

Dream Team>>>>>>>>2012 Team. I'd love to see Jordan/Pippen taking turns manhandling Kobe and Lebron. I'd love to see a front line of Chandler/Griffin/Love trying to stop Ewing/Robinson/Malone/Barkley. CP3/Westbrook/DWill against Magic/Stock? Please.

http://bambam.info/filehole/donaldduck-funny-gifs-have-ever-been-so-mad-that-you.gif

[Legends66NBA7]

These Kobtards are high in LaLa land. Don't waste your breath.

So your in total agreement that Kobe Bryant = Mitch Richmond in the 90s too ?

And no, I absolutely don't agree with Jordan is better than everything in comparison with Kobe.

Yes, Jordan's the better player, but not at everything.



Keeping to the topic, it would have to come down to the major strengths each team had. Which for the 92 dream team, the big men... hence why Charles Barkley was the best player on the 92 Dream Team, through out that tournament.

The best player from the 08 team (Wade) isn't playing... So we have yet to find out who will be the best player for this team (assuming it will be LeBron/Durant or an outside chance that maybe it's Kobe ?), but it might come down to the point guards play.

[TonyD]

This year's team isn't even at full strength due to injuries. The 2008 "redeem team" would beat this 2012 squad.

[kaiteng]

This year's team isn't even at full strength due to injuries. The 2008 "redeem team" would beat this 2012 squad.
Exactly.

Since they have already "redeemed", 2012 team's mindset won't be as strong as 2008's either.

[Noob Saibot]

So your in total agreement that Kobe Bryant = Mitch Richmond in the 90s too ?

sure if you factor in that Mitch Richmond played with sorry franchises while Kobe Jordan played for a team with a strong frontcourt and superior coaching (cept for Mike Brown of course). We would all love to see how Kobe would fare as the No. 1 option on a medicore franchise in the handchecking 90s era.


And no, I absolutely don't agree with Jordan is better than everything in comparison with Kobe.

Yes, Jordan's the better player, but not at everything.


my assessement with Kobe over Jordan is long range shooting. everything else Jordan blows this guy out of the cannon. For MJ to score over 30,000 points with less than 600 three point field goals made is truly astounding.

[Living Being]

You apparently don't when you say utter bullsh*t like this:



Early 90's Jordan is the greatest perimeter player to ever play the game. Only other wing players close to him are Magic and Bird. Those three are in a class of their own when it comes to perimeter players. Prime Kobe isn't even as good as Wizards Jordan. Wizards Jordan was a smarter scorer/player, better passer, better rebounder, and better team leader. He was still clutch as hell too.

Kobe is an overrated piece of sh*t who would be no better than Mitch Richmond if he played in the 90's. The p*ssy cries to the refs every time someone so much as looks at him. Physical defenses take him out of the game and shut him completely down as history has shown us(Pistons, Celtics, hell even OKC). He's nothing more than a low efficient chucker who forced his way out of a small market team on draft night to play with one of the most dominant players of all time. He was carried to three straight championships, and then tried his best to chuck his team out of another if it weren't for Pau Gasol, Ron Artest, and Derek Fisher making big plays against the Celtics in 2010.

Kobe does NOTHING better than Jordan, NOTHING. Oh wait, he does, he's better at chucking low percentage shots, quitting during playoff series', and alienating his teammates. He's a front runner who quits when his team is behind(see 06 vs Phoenix, 08 vs Boston, 11 vs Dallas).

Dream Team>>>>>>>>2012 Team. I'd love to see Jordan/Pippen taking turns manhandling Kobe and Lebron. I'd love to see a front line of Chandler/Griffin/Love trying to stop Ewing/Robinson/Malone/Barkley. CP3/Westbrook/DWill against Magic/Stock? Please.
Rep earned.

[Legends66NBA7]

Exactly.

Since they have already "redeemed", 2012 team's mindset won't be as strong as 2008's either.

Yeah, that's one way of putting it. :oldlol:

A focused and healthy Wade, peak Kobe and enterting peak LeBron > prime LeBron, enterting prime Durant, and past-prime Kobe.

[SwayDizzle]

http://bambam.info/filehole/donaldduck-funny-gifs-have-ever-been-so-mad-that-you.gif
:lol :lol :lol :lol this gif is awesome

[Legends66NBA7]

sure if you factor in that Mitch Richmond played with sorry franchises while Kobe Jordan played for a team with a strong frontcourt and superior coaching (cept for Mike Brown of course). We would all love to see how Kobe would fare as the No. 1 option on a medicore franchise in the handchecking 90s era.

I don't know man. It's not that cut and dry to me.

The way I look at it... the Kobe Bryant that this generation has seen... wouldn't have existed in his prime in the 90s. What I'm trying to say is that he would have to be born around the 60s and the play his prime in the 80s-90s period. Therefore, he would be a different player... a player who would adjust through that defense.

He would still be great too, because I believe that greatness can transcend any era... I don't know what his numbers would be like, his Basketball IQ level, etc... but he would still be a superstar player. He wouldn't be the "Jordan clone" that many people relate him to be either (because he didn't grow up watching Jordan's tapes, or other NBA players tapes.)

Maybe he won't have the same career or maybe he will... I'm just trying to look at it logically, since there aren't any time machines, we can't transport players from now back in the past or bring back players from the past to the future, etc...

I think if we're going to say Kobe's in this situation too, I think we can say the same for guy like Dwyane Wade as well.



my assessement with Kobe over Jordan is long range shooting. everything else Jordan blows this guy out of the cannon. For MJ to score over 30,000 points with less than 600 three point field goals made is truly astounding.

I would also say ball handling. Agree with everything else for the most part.

[guy]

I'm in full agreement with you on that one. I was going to address that statement if you did not.

I think the comparison of the '92 team to the '12 squad is a lot less about 1-on-1 matchups than what many people are suggesting. I don't think it's a matter of saying, "Jordan > Bryant and James > Pippen", regardless of whether they're true statements or not. The '92 Dream Team is just one continuous wave of Hall of Famers. It never stops and it never drops off. Would the drop off be Chris Mullin, the shooter coming off a 26ppg season on 52% shooting? John Stockton? The all-time leader in assists and steals?

For me, the absurdly high level of depth on the '92 squad is the largest difference between the two teams. If Russell Westbrook attacks David Robinson and draws two quick fouls on him, who's going to pick up the slack? Well, that'd more than likely fall on the shoulders of Hall of Fame center Patrick Ewing. No big deal. And if Magic rolls an ankle, who's running point? Oh, John Stockton. Conversely, say David Robinson gives Tyson all he can handle inside and Tyson finds himself in heavy foul trouble early. Who will spell him? Kevin Love. Not shabby, but it's not Patrick Ewing. And if Chris Paul needs a breather? 40% shooting Deron Williams. Again, great player, not John Stockton. The examples, of course, only run deeper.

The mere fact that 2012 are vulnerable enough that they would be completely screwed if Tyson Chandler got into foul trouble with Love, Griffin, or Lebron having to backup at center should make this not debatable.

[G-train]

Kobe=MJ
Lebron>Barkley
Magic>Westbrook
Durant>Pippen
Robinson>Tyson

(anyone bringing up Bird never watched the olympics....dude was hurt and was barely able to play more then 10 minutes per)

12' Bench>92'

Drexler was basically a worse version of Danny Granger and wouldn't even make the squad in modern times....Ewing didn't even have more moves the Yao Ming...


12' is the better overall squad.

Come on dude.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy][I]Michael Jordan memo to Kobe Bryant:

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Because Jordan is the best evaluator of talent... In fact MJ believing that the DT would win makes me believe that 2012 would destroy them because he is such a bad basketball mnd.
that is all kobe has to say.

[RazorBaLade]

you got links for all the other times jordan sonned kobe?

yeah i got one here for you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iHXoUl5bmo

mj sonned him hard

[Jacks3]

Nostalgia is awesome.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

wow 8 pages long? lol

[StarJordan]

this is when 40 year old jordan sonned kobe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UupUDYeNqQ

92 jordan would rape 2012 kobe....never let him touch the basketball!

[Callystarr]

Magic would have fits with defending Westbrook. Especially the 1992 version of Magic.

How so??

John Stockton, Magic Johnson would have a field day...your talking bout the greatest stealer and one of the best ever in history....

Westbrook would have his passes and be stripped day and night especially by John Stockton....man averaged over 3 steals in his prime...

[DatAsh]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[Mr Exlax]

Oh and one more thing. Michael Jordan is the last person to try and evaluate any kind of talent or another player's ability. Let's be for real. Michael Jordan basically said Adam Morrison was better than Brandon Roy and Rudy Gay. This is the same man that basically said Kwame Brown was better than Gilbert Arenas, Pau Gasol, Tyson Chandler and freaking Joe Johnson! Cmon son. How you gonna listen to him. The only thing he can say is who he's better than. That's about it.

Just noticed that somebody else mentioned Jordan's skill level when it comes to evaluating talent so i wanted to see what you folks would say about this lol. Just cause Jordan says it's "No comparison" makes me think the current team would win lol.

[Legends66NBA7]

Maybe YOU should do some research before stating something as a fact that is not even close to being a fact.

I don't know which article on b-ball reference it's called but... 2002 Jordan was part of a list of the Top 20 inefficient 20ppg scoring seasons.

He might not have been the least efficient, but it was close enough to being a fact.

[DatAsh]

Kobe is a better shooter, better off ball defender and just as good in one on one situations, plus his post game is all time nasty.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read on inside hoops. Say what you want to say anonymously on the internet, but after reading something like the above quote, I(and anyone who's over 28-30) won't believe you when you say you watched Jordan play. You're either incredibly biased, or you're making assumptions based off an incomplete knowledge base.

As for the Kobe vs Jordan comparison that OldSchool made, most of what you bolded in the top part is absolutely true. The fact that you think it's not tells anyone who's seen both players play that you never saw Jordan play. The only thing I really disagree with their is that Jordan was a much greater rebounder than Kobe.

Defense - On ball lock down defense is fairly close though prime Jordan has a slight advantage due to his superior athleticism. Off ball defense is a clear advantage to Jordan. Watch the way Jordan fights through screens. Watch the way he almost gets in fights with his man just to keep him from getting the ball (Kobe did this on occasion, but it wasn't a constant like it was with Jordan). Help defense is another clear edge to Jordan. Jordan had a much better knack for knowing WHEN to help than Kobe did, and it even shows in their stats,

Rebounding - This is close, and this is the only part that was really wrong with OldSchools analysis IMO. Jordan was a slightly better rebounder prime vs prime, but lets not pretend it isn't close. Looking at their TRB%, Jordan does have a clear edge, but where talking 9-10% vs 7-8%.

Passing/Playmaking - Again, anyone who's seen both players play(which you "claim" to have) would know that Jordan has a somewhat small but clear advantage here as well. In terms of pure passing ability, Kobe is probably Jordan's equal, if not superior. What makes Jordan the better passer/playmaker was his superior ability to draw the double off penetration and kick it out to the open man. Jordan was also the more willing passer.

Post-Game - This one is close too, but Jordan still gets the nod. Kobe is a fantastic post player, and possibly one of the best guards of all time, but Jordan was still better. Footwork is probably close, with Kobe having a slight edge, but Jordan's superior agility/strength allowed him to to more easily blow by his man to get to the basket, and also allowed him to get more separation on his turn around jumper. Ultimately, Jordan was the more effective player in the post. Stats, and the unbiased eye test back this up.

10% Overall impact difference? - I would say that's about right. Do you think that's an exaggeration.


All of this is talk is pretty meaningless though, as it assumes were talking prime Jordan vs prime Kobe. The more relevant discussion with regards to this thread is prime Jordan vs past prime Kobe, and there is certainly a >10% difference in overall impact there.

[TheMan]

Alphawolf24 had easily the two dumbest remarks in this thread with these two doozies...

Kobe=MJ- come on, prime MJ vs old ass Kobe?:roll: prime MJ>>>prime Kobe

"Drexler is basically a worse Danny Granger".-:facepalm

Basketball isn't your fort

[Mr Exlax]

Alphawolf24 had easily the two dumbest remarks in this thread with these two doozies...

Kobe=MJ- come on, prime MJ vs old ass Kobe?:roll: prime MJ>>>prime Kobe

"Drexler is basically a worse Danny Granger".-:facepalm

I actually overlooked the Kobe/MJ one.

I've been stuck on the Drexler being a worse Danny Granger. I've been staring at it. I can't get past it lol.

[DatAsh]

I don't know which article on b-ball reference it's called but... 2002 Jordan was part of a list of the Top 20 inefficient 20ppg scoring seasons.

He might not have been the least efficient, but it was close enough to being a fact.

He didn't say it was one of the least efficient(which I wouldn't have disagreed with), he said THE least efficient. You'd have to be pretty dense to think that 20ppg on 44.5% is the least efficient >20ppg season of all time. Hell, that would have been GREAT efficiency in the 50s/60s.

[TheMan]

I actually overlooked the Kobe/MJ one.

I've been stuck on the Drexler being a worse Danny Granger. I've been staring at it. I can't get past it lol.
He either likes the attention his idiocy brings him or just not a serious poster.

[Dragonyeuw]

The more relevant discussion with regards to this thread is prime Jordan vs past prime Kobe, and there is certainly a >10% in overall impact there.

You can make the argument that there is >10% difference even with prime Kobe. It's hard to use percentages here, but in terms of overall efficiency, leadership, intangibles, prime Kobe was probably 85-90% percent the player prime Jordan was. And the 90% high-end of the spectrum would be on those special nights when Kobe is firing on all cylinders.

[DatAsh]

You can make the argument that there is >10% difference even with prime Kobe. It's hard to use percentages here, but in terms of overall efficiency, leadership, intangibles, prime Kobe was probably 85-90% percent the player prime Jordan was. And the 90% high-end of the spectrum would be on those special nights when Kobe is firing on all cylinders.

I agree that it's hard, and probably wrong to use a % here.

[Legends66NBA7]

You'd have to be pretty dense to think that 20ppg on 44.5% is the least efficient >20ppg season of all time.

Dude, I didn't reference that version of Jordan. That's 2003 Jordan.

I'm talking about 2002 Jordan and I'm pretty sure rhythmic

[DatAsh]

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]Dude, I didn't reference that version of Jordan. That's 2003 Jordan.

I'm talking about 2002 Jordan and I'm pretty sure rhythmic

[Legends66NBA7]

The dense comment wasn't aimed at you. Sorry if you took it that way

Nah, none taken, but I actually didn't see (or just didn't look back far enough) the other part of that quote.

Thanks for noting that. :cheers:

Makes sense to me now.

[AlphaWolf24]

[QUOTE=TheMan]Alphawolf24 had easily the two dumbest remarks in this thread with these two doozies...

Kobe=MJ- come on, prime MJ vs old ass Kobe?:roll: prime MJ>>>prime Kobe

"Drexler is basically a worse Danny Granger".-:facepalm

Basketball isn't your fort

[KG215]

- Granger and Drexler are very sismilar...Both players can give you 20 - 25 PPG 4AST 4REB..I would IMO take Granger over Drexler as Granger can actually dribble without looking at the ground.


:roll: :roll: :roll:

Please tell me you aren't being serious.

[Round Mound]

this *****.....






- Kobe is nearly identitical to Mj in all aspects of basketball...I was simply saying similar players similar roles...the Gap in marginal stats in minimal at best..

get over it.


- Granger and Drexler are very sismilar...Both players can give you 20 - 25 PPG 4AST 4REB..I would IMO take Granger over Drexler as Granger can actually dribble without looking at the ground.


I watched Glyde's whole career.....played on some decent teams , Quit and won as a Ring Chaser....don't know why comparing him to Granger is bad?







next


:roll: :applause: :bowdown: :facepalm :rolleyes: :no:

[RaininTwos]

Early 90's Jordan is the greatest perimeter player to ever play the game. Only other wing players close to him are Magic and Bird. Those three are in a class of their own when it comes to perimeter players. Prime Kobe isn't even as good as Wizards Jordan. Wizards Jordan was a smarter scorer/player, better passer, better rebounder, and better team leader. He was still clutch as hell too.

Kobe is an overrated piece of sh*t who would be no better than Mitch Richmond if he played in the 90's. The p*ssy cries to the refs every time someone so much as looks at him. Physical defenses take him out of the game and shut him completely down as history has shown us(Pistons, Celtics, hell even OKC). He's nothing more than a low efficient chucker who forced his way out of a small market team on draft night to play with one of the most dominant players of all time. He was carried to three straight championships, and then tried his best to chuck his team out of another if it weren't for Pau Gasol, Ron Artest, and Derek Fisher making big plays against the Celtics in 2010.

Kobe does NOTHING better than Jordan, NOTHING. Oh wait, he does, he's better at chucking low percentage shots, quitting during playoff series', and alienating his teammates. He's a front runner who quits when his team is behind(see 06 vs Phoenix, 08 vs Boston, 11 vs Dallas).

Dream Team>>>>>>>>2012 Team. I'd love to see Jordan/Pippen taking turns manhandling Kobe and Lebron. I'd love to see a front line of Chandler/Griffin/Love trying to stop Ewing/Robinson/Malone/Barkley. CP3/Westbrook/DWill against Magic/Stock? Please.

WTF is this?

Haha, are you mimicing Jordan stans and making their trolling look comical and extremely obvious?

This has to be a joke. You can't insult me and then talk in absolutes about how Jordan is better than Kobe in every way possible. That's just untrue. Oh and Pippen isnt manhandling Lebron any time soon, neither would Jordan. Lebron isn't Toni f*cking Kukoc, he's a top 15 player of all time and a force to be reckoned with.

[StarJordan]

Kobe is nearly identitical to Mj in all aspects of basketball.
Nope, not as strong, not as explosive, and didn't have the big hand jordan did.



..I was simply saying similar players similar roles...the Gap in marginal stats in minimal at best..

30.1 ppg > 25ppg by 5 points. Basketball games are won or lost on a single point. 5 point/per player/per game difference is quite big. In a 7 game series in a typical year, Jordan will outscore kobe by 35 points.

[Dave_520]

Unless you are cloning Scottie than one of Durant or Lebron is going to score at will. And this is Kobe against Jordan we are talkin about. Kobe doesn't need to shit him down. Just to make him work/tire.

I really don't understand why all the extreme positions some people take on comparisons like these...

Both teams are talented and intelligent enough to safely say nobody is probably going to score "at will", and if any person COULD pull off something of that regard, it would be Jordan.

Common sense (or apparently not) tells me that the Dream Team is obviously the better team, but not by such an extreme margin that they have no chance to win a game. If playing a seven game series, I have no problem admitting that the 2012 team could pull of a V or two... Players of either teams caliber may have mismatches of certain types, but at the level all of these guys are playing at, its not such a wild discrepancy that one player will physically abuse the other an entire series...the talent is simply too high either way.

I think a much more reasonable way of comparing the two teams would be to break it down into pieces..and here is a quick breakdown from my perspective.

PG/SG.... Paul/Williams/Westbrook/Kobe/Harden for the 2012 are slightly quicker and possibly more athletic as a GROUP than the 1992 team...their strengths will be penetration/dish and fastbreak points..solid perimeter defense. With Kobe, they also can regularly play above the rim as well..

Magic/MJ/Stockton/Drexler..., they are bigger, stronger and smarter than their counterparts...of course they have Jordan who's athleticism is virtually unmatched at this point in his career and both he and Drexler have the ability to play above the rim, something the 2012 guards will not be able to hold a candle to (with the exception of Kobe and sometimes Westbrook). Size is a major advantage as well.. with the exception of Stockton, Jordan, Drex and Magic are all over 6'5.



Forwards 2012: James/Durant/Igouadala/Anthony...I think everybody is focused around the forward matchups... Lebron and Durant create one of the best and most diverse forward combinations ever. Lebron obviously has the ability to score on anybody at any given time when he wants it. and Durant is a taller, stronger version of Pippen, an athletic big man who can run the floor and shoot like a guard. They create matchup problems for literally anybody because both are extremely athletic, can play above the rim, are big/strong bodies and can shoot the ball from the perimeter (esp Durant). They would have their hands full defensively, especially from scorers Malone and Barkley who could chew up any of those guy inside 12 feet from the basket...

Forwards 1992: Malone/Barkley/Laetner/Pippen/Mullin: Ill start by saying Pippen, in my mind, is one of the top 5 defensive players in the history of the NBA as well as quite possibly the most versatile minus Lebron...he would matchup well against either player and while he is not as strong as Lebron or a tall as Durant, he IS quicker than either and smarter than both and I think the matchup on either player (I would personally put him on Durant) is spectacular.. not to mention he is excellent offensively. Malone/Barkley would not be able to guard any of their forwards well on the perimeter but with a team defense it would not be as imperative...as both players are capable (especially Malone) of playing excellent defense in the post. Mullin would keep all of the opposing teams forwards honest because he is a better pure shooter than anybody on either squad minus Larry Bird. Latener would get the water.

Offensively, the same matchup problems apply for the 2012 team...nobody is going to be able to effectively guard Malone or Barkley who were scoring machines at this point in their careers, esp in the post and I see a lot of fouls going to both sides from penetration...with the advantage in that regard going to the 1992 because of the superior interior defense from Robinson/Ewing.

Centers 2012: Love/Davis/Chandler: This is obviously the biggest mismatch position wise. Chandler is their best bet IMO... a tall athletic big man who can play solid defense...Love and Davis are strong and good rebounders but none of them have remotely the scoring ability of the 1992 squad nor the shot block ability, save Chandler gets wild and starts using that ridiculous leaping ability he used to have..

Centers 1992: Robinson/Ewing...Two of the top 10 Centers ever..both considered in their primes roughly, both were better scorers, at least equal rebounders if not better and easily better shot blockers/passers...If they wanted to pummel the post down low they could go with Ewing, if they wanted to score and use quickness, they could go with Robinson. I think Robinson especially would be effective because of his outstanding shot blocking ability combined with his quickness for altering the shots of the penetrating of the 2012 players like Lebron...


All in all, neither team OWNS the other.. at this level you rarely if ever get total domination like so many people type...however the Dream Team without question has the overall advantage and minus the athleticism and penetration ability of the 2012 squad, all other advantages including coaching and chemistry point to the 1992 squad.

I would say in a series of 7... I would go either 4-1 or MAYBE 4-2 with the Dream Team winning by an average of 8-10 points....

[Linspired]

dream team ain't gonna lose to a team who beats teams like argentina by 6. it really will be a bad miss match. not only the dream team has the chemistry, but they have the size. 12 team is talented, but they will just get worked. just watch how spain will make all of us sweat.

[Dave_520]

dream team ain't gonna lose to a team who beats teams like argentina by 6. it really will be a bad miss match. not only the dream team has the chemistry, but they have the size. 12 team is talented, but they will just get worked. just watch how spain will make all of us sweat.

extreme positions like these don't do much for credibility...just sayin

[RazorBaLade]

Nope, not as strong, not as explosive, and didn't have the big hand jordan did.



30.1 ppg > 25ppg by 5 points. Basketball games are won or lost on a single point. 5 point/per player/per game difference is quite big. In a 7 game series in a typical year, Jordan will outscore kobe by 35 points.

Why not take a good 12 year stretch to compare instead of the entire careers? Kobe started early.

[Nero Tulip]

I don't know why people are even talking about this. Try to beat Spain first then talk about how you compare to older teams.

[Linspired]

extreme positions like these don't do much for credibility...just sayin

what's so extreme about what i just said? this team is one bad shooting night from not winning the gold.

game of basketball is all about who's the better TEAM. 92 is a superior TEAM.

[DatAsh]

Why not take a good 12 year stretch to compare instead of the entire careers? Kobe started early.

Kobe's first few years in the league really drive down his averages. It's somewhat unfortunate really as it distorts peoples perception of his overall level of play. Though I guess in some sense you could say that for most players, usually it's their veteran years that drag down their averages (which Kobe's still might).

The most accurate way of doing a statistical comparison in my opinion would probably be to use that year in particular to approximate what those players were giving you at the time, that is 1992 Jordan and 2012 Kobe. You could even use a 2-3 year span if you want a larger sample size.

How Kobe played as an 18 year old kid, or how Jordan played as a 40 year old man has little relation to what their most likely to give you in this particular match up, and both of those things, irrelevantly, average into their overall career numbers.

More realistically your looking at something like

Jordan - 31 ppg 6.5 reb 6 ast 2.6 stl 1 blk on 52/31/84
Kobe - 27 ppg 5.0 reb 5 ast 1.3 stl .2 blk on 44/32/83

for a prime Jordan vs past prime Kobe

Statistically, there is a slight gap, though it's not night and day. I think it's really pretty interesting just how similar their numbers actually are. Kobe really is just like a scaled down version of Jordan, and this is prime Jordan vs past prime Kobe were comparing(the numbers would be even more similar were we to compare prime vs. prime).

Jordan would have a pretty huge edge defensively, but even at 33 years old Kobe is still a competent defender in his own right.

[Asukal]

Kobe's first few years in the league really drive down his averages. It's somewhat unfortunate really as it distorts peoples perception of his overall level of play. Though I guess in some sense you could say that for most players, usually it's their veteran years that drag down their averages (which Kobe's still might).

The most accurate way of doing a statistical comparison in my opinion would probably be to use that year in particular to approximate what those players were giving you at the time, that is 1992 Jordan and 2012 Kobe. You could even use a 2-3 year span if you want a larger sample size.

How Kobe played as an 18 year old kid, or how Jordan played as a 40 year old man has little relation to what their most likely to give you in this particular match up, and both of those things, irrelevantly, average into their overall career numbers.

More realistically your looking at something like

Jordan - 31 ppg 6.5 reb 6 ast 2.6 stl 1 blk on 52/31/84
Kobe - 27 ppg 5.0 reb 5 ast 1.3 stl .2 blk on 44/32/83

for a prime Jordan vs past prime Kobe

Statistically, there is a slight gap, though it's not night and day. I think it's really pretty interesting just how similar their numbers actually are. Kobe really is just like a scaled down version of Jordan, and this is prime Jordan vs past prime Kobe were comparing(the numbers would be even more similar were we to compare prime vs. prime).

Jordan would have a pretty huge edge defensively, but even at 33 years old Kobe is still a competent defender in his own right.

Are you serious??? :biggums:

31 ppg at 52% >>>>>>>>> 27 ppg at 44%

2.6 spg >>>>>>>>> 1.3 spg

1 bpg >>>>>>>> .2 bpg

The **** are you smoking son?? :facepalm

[OldSchoolBBall]

'92 Jordan would take a dump all over '12 Kobe. How anyone thinks otherwise is amazing to me. This isn't '06-'09 Kobe, where he'd at least have a fighting chance.

[Dragonyeuw]

Jordan - 31 ppg 6.5 reb 6 ast 2.6 stl 1 blk on 52/31/84
Kobe - 27 ppg 5.0 reb 5 ast 1.3 stl .2 blk on 44/32/83

for a prime Jordan vs past prime Kobe

Statistically, there is a slight gap, though it's not night and day. I think it's really pretty interesting just how similar their numbers actually are. Kobe really is just like a scaled down version of Jordan, and this is prime Jordan vs past prime Kobe were comparing(the numbers would be even more similar were we to compare prime vs. prime).

Jordan would have a pretty huge edge defensively, but even at 33 years old Kobe is still a competent defender in his own right.

There is a huge efficiency gap between 31 and 27 points at a 8% difference field goal percentage. HUGE.

Since Kobe started his career with Shaq( and took 3-4 years to become a top scorer), if we're comparing apple to apple circumstances with Jordan the best thing to do is to look at his post Shaq years, when he was the undisputed number one option. He has two seasons post Shaq where he averaged 35 and 31 points a game. Aside from those two seasons, he's basically been a 27-28 ppg scorer.

In Jordan's Bulls playing days, he didn't dip under 30 ppg until the 96-97 season, 29.6 at age 34( asides from his second injury-plagued year when he averaged 22). Comparing Jordan from 86 to 98, and Kobe from 2004-2012, would give the most accurate comparison, as that's the closest we'd get to apples to apples. This also eliminates each guys 'worst' seasons, so it's fair to both sides.

[BlueandGold]

BTW for anybody thinking theres any comparison the 1992 team has the best frontcourt of all time in:

D.Robinson/K.Malone/Barkley

the best backcourt of all time in: Magic/Jordan/Drexler

and the most athletic fastbreaking wings of all time in Jordan/Pippen/Magic/Drexler

Anybody thinking Durant/Lebron would be better on the fastbreak, which along with athleticism is probably the only advantage they MIGHT have, and even that would be a stretch, needs to go watch clips of Magic right now.

Oh yea and they also have the best defensive backcourt of all time in Pippen/Jordan.

[Linspired]

BTW for anybody thinking theres any comparison the 1992 team has the best frontcourt of all time in:

D.Robinson/K.Malone/Barkley

the best backcourt of all time in: Magic/Jordan/Drexler

and the most athletic fastbreaking wings of all time in Jordan/Pippen/Magic/Drexler

Anybody thinking Durant/Lebron would be better on the fastbreak, which along with athleticism is probably the only advantage they MIGHT have, and even that would be a stretch, needs to go watch clips of Magic right now.

Oh yea and they also have the best defensive backcourt of all time in Pippen/Jordan.

i laugh at people even thinking magic some sort of a fat slob. it's funny how people think 32 year old magic was an old fat hasbeen player.

he definitely wasn't. he was brilliant in that 92 summer. magic could run and lead a fast break better than anybody else. there is no defense for court vision, innate ability to create an offense, and accurate no look pass. magic's rational randomness was something special. 92 magic still had it.

[AlphaWolf24]

There is a huge efficiency gap between 31 and 27 points at a 8% difference field goal percentage. HUGE.

Since Kobe started his career with Shaq( and took 3-4 years to become a top scorer), if we're comparing apple to apple circumstances with Jordan the best thing to do is to look at his post Shaq years, when he was the undisputed number one option. He has two seasons post Shaq where he averaged 35 and 31 points a game. Aside from those two seasons, he's basically been a 27-28 ppg scorer.

In Jordan's Bulls playing days, he didn't dip under 30 ppg until the 96-97 season, 29.6 at age 34( asides from his second injury-plagued year when he averaged 22). Comparing Jordan from 86 to 98, and Kobe from 2004-2012, would give the most accurate comparison, as that's the closest we'd get to apples to apples. This also eliminates each guys 'worst' seasons, so it's fair to both sides.


- well said....and that's exactly what I was talking about.

- Your post makes 100% sense......

Jordan stans - let's use multiple seasons when teemage Kobe was playing 10 - 15 minutes a game:facepalm

[Ne 1]

- well said....and that's exactly what I was talking about.

- Your post makes 100% sense......

Jordan stans - let's use multiple seasons when teemage Kobe was playing 10 - 15 minutes a game:facepalm

Yep, it's why I just go by Per 36 minutes or Per 48 minutes.

[gengiskhan]

There is a gap between 29yr old MJ and 34yr old Kobe. Dream Team was full of cerebral players where the competition level was unreal. And documented. Todays players are more friendly with one another. Who complained about hard fouls on the Dream Team? I know some cried over D.Cousins hard fouling.

The size of the Dream Team trumps them so much. Come down the lane Bron.

Hell there is a gap btw 35 yrs old MJ >>>> & 29 yrs old Kobe.

29 yrs old Kobe = consolation MVP. Lost FMVP to Pierce.

35 yrs old MJ = NBA Reg Sea MVP + FMVP hitting championship winner over Russell.

Case closed.

Kobe & MJ should never ever be mentioned in same sentence. Kobe is NOT Top 10. MJ is Guaranteed Top 3 GOATs to ever play the game.

[BlueandGold]

i laugh at people even thinking magic some sort of a fat slob. it's funny how people think 32 year old magic was an old fat hasbeen player.

he definitely wasn't. he was brilliant in that 92 summer. magic could run and lead a fast break better than anybody else. there is no defense for court vision, innate ability to create an offense, and accurate no look pass. magic's rational randomness was something special. 92 magic still had it.
Yea it's funny how people get forgotten over such short of a time :facepalm at people forgetting that Magic was a couple of months (about 6-8 months) removed from his 1st retirement.

[TheMan]

this *****.....






- Kobe is nearly identitical to Mj in all aspects of basketball...I was simply saying similar players similar roles...the Gap in marginal stats in minimal at best..

get over it.


- Granger and Drexler are very sismilar...Both players can give you 20 - 25 PPG 4AST 4REB..I would IMO take Granger over Drexler as Granger can actually dribble without looking at the ground.


I watched Glyde's whole career.....played on some decent teams , Quit and won as a Ring Chaser....don't know why comparing him to Granger is bad?







next
:oldlol:

this guy is just clueless

[TheMan]

- well said....and that's exactly what I was talking about.

- Your post makes 100% sense......

Jordan stans - let's use multiple seasons when teemage Kobe was playing 10 - 15 minutes a game:facepalm
And if you take Jordan's and Kobe's best years and compare them, MJ still bests Kobe by a nice margin...go ahead and look it up:applause:

[TheMan]

Are we gonna act like the 92 Team wouldn't take a dump on Argentina and Spain:oldlol:

Current team barely beat Argentina by 2 treys:roll:

[amfirst]

Of course the dream team can lose. Has no one ever seen a inferior team beat a better team before. Not like Kobe said they would in a playoff series.

Players today are just more skillful. There's a whole lot of players in the NBA that plays like MJ. Back then he was like the only of his kind.

[TheMan]

Of course the dream team can lose. Has no one ever seen a inferior team beat a better team before. Not like Kobe said they would in a playoff series.

Players today are just more skillful. There's a whole lot of players in the NBA that plays like MJ. Back then he was like the only of his kind.

Wrong, players nowadays are more athletic as a whole (and not by much), fundamentally (skills) they are weaker.

I don't even know what you mean by playing like Jordan, I hope you don't mean slam dunks. Name me the players you think play "like Jordan":facepalm

[FKAri]

Wrong, players nowadays are more athletic as a whole (and not by much), fundamentally (skills) they are weaker.

Name me the players you think play "like Jordan":facepalm

Tony Allen. :lol

[andgar923]

Tony Allen. :lol
:lol

That was actually funny.

[TheMan]

Tony Allen. :lol
lol

I remember when that was a saying here...poor man's Tony Allen.

kids today:oldlol:

[gengiskhan]

Of course the dream team can lose. Has no one ever seen a inferior team beat a better team before. Not like Kobe said they would in a playoff series.

Players today are just more skillful. There's a whole lot of players in the NBA that plays like MJ. Back then he was like the only of his kind.

haha

good joke.

Players today are just more bulked up & toned. Thats all. I wouldn't even call them a better athletes overall than '80s & '90s athletes.

I still see more explosiveness in Kemp & dominique & Shaq like bodies of '80s & '90s than Today's, Howard & Blake griffins.

Those '80s & '90s players were more explosive & attacked the rim viciously.

Today's well toned muscular physique men cannot.

think about this.

Harold Miner exploded on the rim much better than Kobe Bryant ever did when dunking.

Miner is only 6'2". Kobe is like 6'6". both had small hand size. so fair comparison.

[TheMan]

haha

good joke.

Players today are just more bulked up & toned. Thats all. I wouldn't even call them a better athletes overall than '80s & '90s athletes.

I still see more explosiveness in Kemp & dominique & Shaq like bodies of '80s & '90s than Today's, Howard & Blake griffins.

Those '80s & '90s players were more explosive & attacked the rim viciously.

Today's well toned muscular physique men cannot.

think about this.

Harold Miner exploded on the rim much better than Kobe Bryant ever did when dunking.

Miner is only 6'2". Kobe is like 6'6". both had small hand size. so fair comparison.

Robert Pack

Kids think the whole Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook small guy playing above the rim is new. That also happened back then.