Michael Jordan memo to Kobe Bryant:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Michael Jordan memo to Kobe Bryant: ‘No comparison’ between Dream Team and 2012 Olympic squad

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/michael-jordan-memo-to-kobe-bryant-no-comparison-between-dream-team-and-2012-olympic-squad/2012/07/12/gJQAoSlYfW_story.html

CHARLOTTE, N.C. — Michael Jordan says there’s no way Kobe Bryant and this year’s USA Olympic basketball team could’ve beaten the 1992 Dream Team.

Jordan told The Associated Press Thursday that he laughed, “I absolutely laughed” when hearing Bryant’s comments that the squad training in Las Vegas could take Jordan and company.

Jordan says there was “no comparison” which team was better, adding that Byrant comparing the two teams “is not one of the smarter things he ever could have done.”

Jordan spoke prior to a celebrity golf tournament in Charlotte.

He says the 1992 team, which included 11 future Hall of Famers and won its six games by an average of more than 43 points en route to capturing the gold medal, may not have been as athletic but was definitely smarter.

Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


Jordan stays sonning Kobe. :oldlol:

[RaininTwos]

MJ is wrong and he knows it. I would love to see these teams play a series against each other. Kobe and MJ would really be the best match up ever.

[SilkkTheShocker]

I don't think the gap between Jordan/Kobe is as big as some believe. But at the same time, there is a gap. Kobe is a beast, 2nd best SG ever. But Jordan was the lead-dog for every team he played on in the NBA. Kobe was a sidekick for like 8 seasons.

[swag2011]

Why is everyone making a big deal about this? It must be just because Kobe said it, cause if anybody else said it they wouldn't give a ****.

Are people seriously gunna sit there and say this years team won't at least have a chance? GTFOH with that BS. I do think the 92 team would win, but it ain't as clear cut like people make it.

And OP STFU. Last i checked MJ said Kobe is the ONLY one who can be compared to him. Didn't say that b!tch you stan for tho :oldlol:



I don't think the gap between Jordan/Kobe is as big as some believe. But at the same time, there is a gap. Kobe is a beast, 2nd best SG ever. But Jordan was the lead-dog for every team he played on in the NBA. Kobe was a sidekick for like 8 seasons.

It really isn't as big. And i'm not even going to go into that sidekick BS. But the gap isn't as big. Even Phil jackson said Kobe is more skilled than MJ. The difference to me is that MJ was bigger, more athletic, and took way smarter shots.

[rhythmic]

There is also no comparison between the opposition the Dream Team faced, and what our current squad is facing.

Back in 1992, the competition was a joke.
Yet Kobe is the arrogant one, eh?

[lilgodfather1]

Because Jordan is the best evaluator of talent... In fact MJ believing that the DT would win makes me believe that 2012 would destroy them because he is such a bad basketball mnd.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

MJ is wrong and he knows it. I would love to see these teams play a series against each other. Kobe and MJ would really be the best match up ever.

I don't disagree with you. Best of 7 series? '92 in 6-7 games.

Gotta love the oldschool coming out of the woodwork blasting Kobe though. :applause:

[RaininTwos]

I don't think the gap between Jordan/Kobe is as big as some believe. But at the same time, there is a gap. Kobe is a beast, 2nd best SG ever. But Jordan was the lead-dog for every team he played on in the NBA. Kobe was a sidekick for like 8 seasons.
In terms of skill/peak, I think that the MJ/Kobe gap is like splitting hairs. I always wonder if people here actually play basketball because people tend to think that players of Jordan's caliber are unbeatable.

Personally, the dream team vs the redeem team would be a seven game series that goes down to the wire. I wouldn't even know who wins that one.

1992 vs 2012 is a little more clear cut but if this was a one game thing, I would put my money on the dream team. I still think this whole "no comparison" thing is just a response that matches how bold Kobe was.



There is also no comparison between the opposition the Dream Team faced, and what our current squad is facing.

Back in 1992, the competition was a joke.
Yet Kobe is the arrogant one, eh?
Good point, if the Yugoslavia team had the chance to stay together for the 92 Olympics....I don't know what would happen.

Drazen Petrovic,Toni Kukoc, Dino Radja, Vlade Divac plus a host of good players would definitely not get blown out by the Dream Team. Drazen didn't fear Jordan at all, dude dropped 40 on him the next year as a Net if I am not mistaken.

[AlphaWolf24]

Kobe=MJ
Lebron>Barkley
Magic>Westbrook
Durant>Pippen
Robinson>Tyson

(anyone bringing up Bird never watched the olympics....dude was hurt and was barely able to play more then 10 minutes per)

12' Bench>92'

Drexler was basically a worse version of Danny Granger and wouldn't even make the squad in modern times....Ewing didn't even have more moves the Yao Ming...


12' is the better overall squad.

[JellyBean]

As much as I love watching the current NBA players, especially Kobe. There aint no way in the world this current squad of team USA Olympic basketball players gonna beat the Dream Team. They played with a mean streak. They had the GOAT. Sure this current squad is fast. But they are not going to attack the lane for long...with Barkley and Malone knocking them on their butts. I can see Lebron now trying to back Karl Malone down in the paint. Malone would be like "Boy are you serious? I pull semi trucks that are stronger than you. Get outta here!" Dream Team would work this current Team USA.

[SilkkTheShocker]

OP, are you like a D12 fan or something? Is that the Kuniva you are referring to in your name?

[G.O.A.T]

MJ is wrong and he knows it. I would love to see these teams play a series against each other. Kobe and MJ would really be the best match up ever.

Not in that scenario.

That's Jordan at his absolute peak versus Kobe a few years past his prime.

[AlphaWolf24]

In terms of skill/peak, I think that the MJ/Kobe gap is like splitting hairs. I always wonder if people here actually play basketball because people tend to think that players of Jordan's caliber are unbeatable.

Personally, the dream team vs the redeem team would be a seven game series that goes down to the wire. I wouldn't even know who wins that one.

1992 vs 2012 is a little more clear cut but if this was a one game thing, I would put my money on the dream team. I still think this whole "no comparison" thing is just a response that matches how bold Kobe was.


No most people here don't play at all...the only time they play they need a 110 volt power cord and a XBox controller.

they just spew the same regurgated filth they hear on TV...

"UHHH...no way 2012 team could win.....1992 team had Barkley and Jordan ( who I only seen play once)"

[GOBB]

There is a gap between 29yr old MJ and 34yr old Kobe. Dream Team was full of cerebral players where the competition level was unreal. And documented. Todays players are more friendly with one another. Who complained about hard fouls on the Dream Team? I know some cried over D.Cousins hard fouling.

The size of the Dream Team trumps them so much. Come down the lane Bron.

[get these NETS]

was there an official starting lineup for the dream team


remember seeing the poster and magazine cover with

magic,jordan,ewing, barkley and malone

4 guys who were/would be MVPs of the league with ewing being the other guy...all in their athletic primes


it's laughable to even entertain that olympic team 2012 could even carry dream team's socks


take malone out of lineup..move barkley to 4....pippen at 3...and olympic team 2012 gets run out of the gym

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Why is everyone making a big deal about this? It must be just because Kobe said it, cause if anybody else said it they wouldn't give a ****.

Are people seriously gunna sit there and say this years team won't at least have a chance? GTFOH with that BS. I do think the 92 team would win, but it ain't as clear cut like people make it.

And OP STFU. Last i checked MJ said Kobe is the ONLY one who can be compared to him. Didn't say that b!tch you stan for tho :oldlol:

Lol at you accusing anyone of making a big deal about this. This must have really rustled your jimmies, huh? :oldlol:

[RaininTwos]

Not in that scenario.

That's Jordan at his absolute peak versus Kobe a few years past his prime.
I always thought that 90 Jordan was his peak. The 92 version was pretty amazing as well, but I wasn't talking about a purely physical thing. I would just love to see Kobe's mentality going up against MJ and vice-versa. It would really be a treat to see.

[SilkkTheShocker]

In terms of skill/peak, I think that the MJ/Kobe gap is like splitting hairs. I always wonder if people here actually play basketball because people tend to think that players of Jordan's caliber are unbeatable.

Personally, the dream team vs the redeem team would be a seven game series that goes down to the wire. I wouldn't even know who wins that one.

1992 vs 2012 is a little more clear cut but if this was a one game thing, I would put my money on the dream team. I still think this whole "no comparison" thing is just a response that matches how bold Kobe was.



Good point, if the Yugoslavia team had the chance to stay together for the 92 Olympics....I don't know what would happen.

Drazen Petrovic,Toni Kukoc, Dino Radja, Vlade Divac plus a host of good players would definitely not get blown out by the Dream Team. Drazen didn't fear Jordan at all, dude dropped 40 on him the next year as a Net if I am not mistaken.



I don't disagree with anything you said. But there is a gap between the two players. But im far from a Jordan fan. No clue why people believe he was all that much better. Its gotten to the point you can't debate about Jordan because of his demi-god status. :facepalm

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

OP, are you like a D12 fan or something? Is that the Kuniva you are referring to in your name?

Nope.

[Rnbizzle]

Jordan, as great as he was, is an arrogant fool.

[Punpun]

OH MY GOD, ANOTHER COMPETITOR JUST CLAIMED THAT THE OTHER TEAM CANT EVEN TOUCH THEM. SO TOTALLY UNHEARD OF.

:yaohappy:

[swag2011]

Lol at you accusing anyone of making a big deal about this. This must have really rustled your jimmies, huh? :oldlol:

I'm talking about ESPN. Skip Bayless, Ric Bucher, and everybody else. It's been on constant rotation since early yesterday lol. But i see you refused to comment on anything else i said. :oldlol: That's cute, you tried though, obvious agenda is obvious. Keep trying though , it's entertaining.

[rhythmic]

Not in that scenario.

That's Jordan at his absolute peak versus Kobe a few years past his prime.

So we're going to pretend like in 92' Magic and Bird were better then prime Paul and prime LeBron?

Paul l Williams l Irving
Bryant l Wade l Harden
James l Durant
Love l Griffin
Howard l Bynum

Would give the Dream Team fits due to their athleticism, quickness and versatility. So tired of everyone kissing the old school players' ass. It's like people who do that are just trying to solidify their basketball knowledge or something, since picking the older generation somehow makes them look more knowledgeable in the context of the discussion. :rolleyes:

Only positions the Dream Team would clearly win is at the PF/C. SF I'd take James/Durant over Pippen/Bird, SG I'd take Jordan/Drexler mostly because Kobe is past his prime and the PG's are a wash. Sorry 92' Magic was not that much better then a prime Chris Paul, if at all.

[ripthekik]

Jordan is right. Kobe is one of the few comparable players in the 2012 team. Look at the other softies..

-you have guys that teamed up with each other instead of beating each other
-guys that choked deep in the finals, and couldn't get over the hump without another champion to hold his hands
-you have guys that complained about tough fouls, while he only jacks up shots

Even Kobe can't help this team.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Kobe=MJ
Lebron>Barkley
Magic>Westbrook
Durant>Pippen
Robinson>Tyson

(anyone bringing up Bird never watched the olympics....dude was hurt and was barely able to play more then 10 minutes per)

12' Bench>92'

Drexler was basically a worse version of Danny Granger and wouldn't even make the squad in modern times....Ewing didn't even have more moves the Yao Ming...



12' is the better overall squad.


This. The current Olympic team would whoop the Dream team's ass. Is Scottie going to guard both Durant and Lebron? :oldlol: CP3 would also hand Stockton his ass on a platter. He couldn't even stop Bobby Hurley from driving in practice :oldlol:

[RaininTwos]

Jordan, as great as he was, is an arrogant fool.
I dont think his arrogance is unwarranted, he's just doing some basic trash talking.

Kobe:"We can beat the dream team"

MJ:"They couldn't touch us, no comparison"

Obviously not the exact quotes, but there is nothing wrong with what was said. The problem lies in the fact that people believe that the 12' team would get destroyed by the Dream Team like they are 1992 Angola or something.

[bmulls]

Kobe=MJ
Lebron>Barkley
Magic>Westbrook
Durant>Pippen
Robinson>Tyson

(anyone bringing up Bird never watched the olympics....dude was hurt and was barely able to play more then 10 minutes per)

12' Bench>92'

Drexler was basically a worse version of Danny Granger and wouldn't even make the squad in modern times....Ewing didn't even have more moves the Yao Ming...


12' is the better overall squad.

Not only is this the dumbest way to compare teams ever, but the bold automatically disqualifies you from intelligent discussion.

[Lebron23]

2012 International Teams > 1992 International Teams. Since 2002 the International teams are getting stronger every year.

[Lebron23]

Not only is this the dumbest way to compare teams ever, but the bold automatically disqualifies you from intelligent discussion.


He's the biggest Kobe D1ckrider in this forum. A 29 yrs.old Jordan will abuse 34 yrs.old Kobe.

[guy]

I don't think Kobe is completely off base with what he meant. Alot of people do point out to Bird and Magic when they talk about how great the Dream Team were, even though at that time they probably weren't even top 5 players on that team. With that said, the Dream Team still wins cause they have Jordan and their big men of Robinson/Ewing/Malone would've dominated inside. Won't be a blowout like people exaggerate, but probably within 10 points. I'd assume the best lineups would've been something like:

Chandler
Lebron
Durant
Kobe
CP3

vs.

Robinson
Malone
Barkley
Jordan
Pippen

Dream Team wins. Robinson dominates Chandler. Malone/Barkley and Lebron/Durant would just continuously score on each other with no one being able to defend the other. Jordan outplays Kobe significantly. Pippen makes CP3 life a living hell.

[wang4three]

For that high level of talent, on any given night, either team could win. That's about it. Over a 7 game series, I'd put my money on the original dream team. Their inside presence is just too commanding.

[20Four]

Not only is this the dumbest way to compare teams ever, but the bold automatically disqualifies you from intelligent discussion.


Its not...1 on 1 wise...kobe can take jordan

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I'm talking about ESPN. Skip Bayless, Ric Bucher, and everybody else. It's been on constant rotation since early yesterday lol. But i see you refused to comment on anything else i said. :oldlol: That's cute, you tried though, obvious agenda is obvious. Keep trying though , it's entertaining.

What else should I address, moron? I'm simply quoting what Jordan said. So what agenda are you talking about? :oldlol:

[get these NETS]

chris paul is a shell of what he used to be....so be easy with the talk about washed up magic in 92

his last year in the league before retiring, he carried lakers to finals...beating talented blazers team in the process


kobe is not what he used to be either


dream team, if you look at it objectively, would serve olympic 2012


league was tougher, more competitive in 92...and dream teamers were the cream of the crop


westbrook, harden, iggy? gtfoh

[Sarcastic]

1992 team would smash 2012 team.

1992 team is stronger at every position except for small forward.

[Lebron23]

Its not...1 on 1 wise...kobe can take jordan


:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[RaininTwos]

Westbrook, the most athletic PG ever, would do some unspeakable things to Magic and Stock.

[SilkkTheShocker]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:
Get real. This isn't Ehlo or starks guarding Jordan. You're dreaming if u think Jordan would dominate Kobe.

[LakersReign]

Why is everyone making a big deal about this? It must be just because Kobe said it, cause if anybody else said it they wouldn't give a ****.

Are people seriously gunna sit there and say this years team won't at least have a chance? GTFOH with that BS. I do think the 92 team would win, but it ain't as clear cut like people make it.

And OP STFU. Last i checked MJ said Kobe is the ONLY one who can be compared to him. Didn't say that b!tch you stan for tho :oldlol:




It really isn't as big. And i'm not even going to go into that sidekick BS. But the gap isn't as big. Even Phil jackson said Kobe is more skilled than MJ. The difference to me is that MJ was bigger, more athletic, and took way smarter shots.

That's really all it ever is. The sad part about it is, then they try to play it of as being objective. When we already know it's not.

[GOBB]

Westbrook, the most athletic PG ever, would do some unspeakable things to Magic and Stock.

Yeah like be funnelled to the big men getting rejected or put on his ass. Thus Westbrook would start shooting jumpers playing into the Dream Teams hands. And neglect the actual stars on the court with him by not passing.

[get these NETS]

Westbrook, the most athletic PG ever, would do some unspeakable things to Magic and Stock.
and with the game on the line..he'd make the WRONG decision


he'd have a lot of points and his team would still lose because he wouldn't make the right play at critical time.

[Sarcastic]

Westbrook, the most athletic PG ever, would do some unspeakable things to Magic and Stock.

Mr 4 fer 20 in game 5 against Chalmers is gonna light up Magic and Stockton?

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/sarcastic/grand/sarcastic-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-226.gif

[Xiao Yao You]

Get real. This isn't Ehlo or starks guarding Jordan. You're dreaming if u think Jordan would dominate Kobe.

After what Navarro and Fernandez did to him 4 years ago when he his role was supposed to be "defensive stopper" I'm pretty sure MJ would.

[RaininTwos]

Yeah like be funnelled to the big men getting rejected or put on his ass. Thus Westbrook would start shooting jumpers playing into the Dream Teams hands. And neglect the actual stars on the court with him by not passing.

I dont understand. He will get rejected and fouled due to D-Rob and Ewing protecting the rim really well, but that isn't going to deter him. Dude attacks the rim with the same kind of reckless abandon that AI/Wade/etc sport.

He does pass though, you need to stop being ignorant. During some of highest scoring games, he still hits open players. Chandler would make a killing with the big having to help due to the PG's getting abused.



and with the game on the line..he'd make the WRONG decision


he'd have a lot of points and his team would still lose because he wouldn't make the right play at critical time.

You have to smoking if you think that Lebron or Paul isn't bringing the ball up with the game on the line. Moot point.



Mr 4 fer 20 in game 5 against Chalmers is gonna light up Magic and Stockton?

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/sarcastic/grand/sarcastic-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-226.gif

Didn't he have one of the highest scoring games in NBA Finals history as well?

[juju151111]

Kobe=MJ
Lebron>Barkley
Magic>Westbrook
Durant>Pippen
Robinson>Tyson

(anyone bringing up Bird never watched the olympics....dude was hurt and was barely able to play more then 10 minutes per)

12' Bench>92'

Drexler was basically a worse version of Danny Granger and wouldn't even make the squad in modern times....Ewing didn't even have more moves the Yao Ming...


12' is the better overall squad.
Clyde a worse version of Granger. Shut ur dumbass up. 29 year old Mj>>>>>>>>> 34 year old Kobe

[SilkkTheShocker]

Unless you are cloning Scottie than one of Durant or Lebron is going to score at will. And this is Kobe against Jordan we are talkin about. Kobe doesn't need to shit him down. Just to make him work/tire.

[tontoz]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[kennethgriffin]

funny thing is kobe is right... hes saying this based on todays style of game

slow old teams with legit pounding centers and floor generals dont really get the job done anymore

its all about young quick pg's, supremely gifted do it all strong tall wings and undersized extemely athletic big men in todays game

the 2012 team would beat the 92 team with todays style of play

the 1992 team would beat the 12 team with the old school style of play



so basically its all a matter of which team got in a time machine would lose...


kobe isnt out of line at all and they need to explain this to MJ

[SilkkTheShocker]

Clyde a worse version of Granger. Shut ur dumbass up. 29 year old Mj>>>>>>>>> 34 year old Kobe
Clyde is better than Granger but no one is exactly afraid of him. Drexler thrived in the open court. Good luck with that playing the 12 team. The guy would have considered a loser if werent for Hakeem. dude was a chump

[andgar923]

MJ can talk.

He's played with some of them, he's been around most of them, he knows how they play. If MJ could give Gerald Wallace tips on how to successfully guard Bron and be on point, imagine what he and Pip would do to him?

The only and biggest problem is Bron, but it's mainly on defense.

But he can't move faster than the ball.

For all of the New Team's speed and athletic ability, nobody can keep up with a passing team.

The Dream Team can either matchup one on one, or play zone and the New Team will play right into the Dream Team's hands. Pick your poison.. either way Dream Team wins.

[Indian guy]

Pippen makes CP3 life a living hell.

Yeah, I don't think you know what you're talking about. Guarding PGs, especially one with CP3's quickness and handle, wasn't a strength of Pippen's. Quite the opposite, in fact. Team USA would be much better off putting Pippen on Kobe and MJ on CP3.

[SilkkTheShocker]

So Prime MJ and Drexler wouldn't have a decisive advantage over a declining Kobe and Robin i mean Wade?

:roll:
Wade would handed Clyde his ass on a platter. :oldlol:

[tontoz]

Westbrook, the most athletic PG ever, would do some unspeakable things to Magic and Stock.


Westbrook wouldn't get a free pass to the rim against the Dream Team. Even if he beats his man he will have company (Drob and Ewing) in a hurry and he isn't known for his decision making. Malone might knock him silly a couple of times as well.

[RaininTwos]

MJ can talk.

He's played with some of them, he's been around most of them, he knows how they play. If MJ could give Gerald Wallace tips on how to successfully guard Bron and be on point, imagine what he and Pip would do to him?

The only and biggest problem is Bron, but it's mainly on defense.

But he can't move faster than the ball.

For all of the New Team's speed and athletic ability, nobody can keep up with a passing team.

The Dream Team can either matchup one on one, or play zone and the New Team will play right into the Dream Team's hands. Pick your poison.. either way Dream Team wins.

Andgar, is this a blow out to you?



Westbrook wouldn't get a free pass to the rim against the Dream Team. Even if he beats his man he will have company (Drob and Ewing) in a hurry and he isn't known for his decision making. Malone might knock him silly a couple of times as well.

I'm well aware of this. I also know that penetration can kill a defense.

[Crown&Coke]

The size of the Dream Team trumps them so much. Come down the lane Bron.

I would love to see Lebron bull his way into the lane and see Karl Malone standing there (with his elbows probably already in position). He was an absolute specimen and tough as nails. Worst part is he didn't give a shit. Would be a hell of a collision

But I really don't see Lebron being able to get around Pip as easy as he does today. When he wants to, he just backs up, gets a head of steam and races towards the rim. Pip is strong himself, and quick. And WANTED to lock you up.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Barkley on Kobe's comments:

http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/12/jordan-barkley-kobe-dream-team/

“I just started laughing,” Barkley said. “How old is Kobe Bryant, 36? He’s 34? And he’s calling us old? At the time, we were only like 28, 29. … Michael Jordan and me were the same age. We were both 29.”

[GOBB]

I dont understand. He will get rejected and fouled due to D-Rob and Ewing protecting the rim really well, but that isn't going to deter him. Dude attacks the rim with the same kind of reckless abandon that AI/Wade/etc sport.

You dont understand basketball? Hilarious, werent you asking people if they actually played the game? Point is Stockon/Magic have help behind them protecting the rim. Westbrook will eventually jack jumpers when he isnt as successful as you think he will be due to his athletic ability penetrating the defense. He'll start shooting jumpers playing right into their hands.

So what Westbrook is super athletic.


He does pass though, you need to stop being ignorant. During some of highest scoring games, he still hits open players. Chandler would make a killing with the big having to help due to the PG's getting abused.

Ignorant? Stop being clueless. Steve Francis 2.0. Chandler wouldnt make a killing with Westbrook. CP3 perhaps because CP3 knows how to get guys easy buckets. And he doesnt need to be super athletic to do it. Chandler would get abused by the bigs on the opposing team and I doubt he'd be that effective vs them on the offensive end as well.

[tontoz]

Wade would handed Clyde his ass on a platter. :oldlol:


And then you would wake up.

[juju151111]

Wade would handed Clyde his ass on a platter. :oldlol:
6'4 Wade can't guard Clyde. What in the **** are u on?

[KG215]

Kobe=MJ

No. 34 year old Kobe does not equal 29 year old Jordan. 27-29 year old Kobe doesn't equal 27-29 year old Jordan, so no way in hell does past his prime Kobe equal peak Jordan.


Durant>Pippen

Again, no. 23 year old Durant is not better than 1992 Pippen. Better scorer and offensive player, sure, but Pippen had a greater all-around impact on games by 1992 than Durant is having as a 23 year old.


12' Bench>92'

Ummm.....come again?


Drexler was basically a worse version of Danny Granger and wouldn't even make the squad in modern times....Ewing didn't even have more moves the Yao Ming...


You have to be the worst poster on here or the best troll. Danny Granger isn't even in the same stratosphere as Drexler as a player and, while Yao was good when he was healthy, he was never close to being as good as prime Ewing.

[GOBB]

I would love to see Lebron bull his way into the lane and see Karl Malone standing there (with his elbows probably already in position). He was an absolute specimen and tough as nails. Worst part is he didn't give a shit. Would be a hell of a collision

But I really don't see Lebron being able to get around Pip as easy as he does today. When he wants to, he just backs up, gets a head of steam and races towards the rim. Pip is strong himself, and quick. And WANTED to lock you up.

Agreed.

[rhythmic]

So Prime MJ and Drexler wouldn't have a decisive advantage over a declining Kobe and Robin i mean Wade?

:roll:

I said I would take Jordan & Drexler. Prime Kobe/Wade Vs. Prime Jordan/Drexler is a wash.

[juju151111]

I want to see Brown come in on Karl Malone and Drob. He ain't out muscling these guys.

[Xiao Yao You]

[B]funny thing is kobe is right... hes saying this based on todays style of game

slow old teams with legit pounding centers and floor generals dont really get the job done anymore

its all about young quick pg's, supremely gifted do it all strong tall wings and undersized extemely athletic big men in todays game

Yeah those guys were so non-athletic in 92. Chris Paul and Deron Williams aren't old school floor generals?

[SilkkTheShocker]

And then you would wake up.
Get real. Clyde was overrated player that couldn't even dribble without looking down. :oldlol:

[jjayfive]

i think these two teams are closer than people think...

the 92 dream team had Magic and Bird who were well past their primes... The level of international competition is no where close to what it is today.. the international rules favor the current team..

[824]

Whoa Michael Jordan being a conceded ego maniac??? NO WAI

[LJJ]

Kobe<<<MJ (prime MJ versus Kobe is already heavily favored towards MJ, but past-prime Kobe versus prime MJ? lol)
Lebron<Barkley (LeBron the more talented NBA player obviously, but no way LeBron can dominate internationally like Barkley)
Chris Paul > Magic
Durant>Pippen
Chandler<<<Robinson

Deron/Westbrook/Love/Anthony/Wade<<Malone/Drexler/Mullin/Ewing/Stockton

Dream Team front court would run trains on the 2012 team all game long basically. There is no one on the new roster who can contain even the 5th choice big man on the Dream Team. The new guys would get blown out, in terms of intelligence and versatility they can't match the oldies.

[tmacattack33]

Why is everyone making a big deal about this? It must be just because Kobe said it, cause if anybody else said it they wouldn't give a ****.

Are people seriously gunna sit there and say this years team won't at least have a chance? GTFOH with that BS. I do think the 92 team would win, but it ain't as clear cut like people make it.

And OP STFU. Last i checked MJ said Kobe is the ONLY one who can be compared to him. Didn't say that b!tch you stan for tho :oldlol:




It really isn't as big. And i'm not even going to go into that sidekick BS. But the gap isn't as big. Even Phil jackson said Kobe is more skilled than MJ. The difference to me is that MJ was bigger, more athletic, and took way smarter shots.


Phil also said that Kobe isn't even in the same league as Michael. And he said his when he want coaching any of the two. So I'll let u decide which moment was more truthful.

[G.O.A.T]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[tontoz]

Get real. Clyde was overrated player that couldn't even dribble without looking down. :oldlol:


That didnt stop him from averaging 25 pts, 6.7 assists and 6.5 rebounds during the 91/92 season.

[get these NETS]

I dont understand. He will get rejected and fouled due to D-Rob and Ewing protecting the rim really well, but that isn't going to deter him. Dude attacks the rim with the same kind of reckless abandon that AI/Wade/etc sport.

He does pass though, you need to stop being ignorant. During some of highest scoring games, he still hits open players. Chandler would make a killing with the big having to help due to the PG's getting abused.




You have to smoking if you think that Lebron or Paul isn't bringing the ball up with the game on the line. Moot point.




Didn't he have one of the highest scoring games in NBA Finals history as well?


westbrook plays an attacking style....and there aren't any real centers in the league anymore

(score points, get boards, block shots is what I mean by dominant center(S) )

so personnel of the league suits his playing style.....

drob was one of the most athletic men EVER to play in the league and clearly the most athletic center .....he used to block shots without fouling people....

can tell you're a modern day fan when it's difficult for you to imagine centers patrolling the paint....not fouling westbrook but blocking his shots...


ewing,robinson, olajuwon, mutombo...just era of centers guarding the lane and no little men getting to the rim at will....jordan the exception....and he had body control where he'd avoid the block and still make the shot

[BigBalla44]

Whole article from AP:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jnqI0mWVmLpGfg-58_R1V1VkHAGQ?docId=e4b4e851e72d44c99cbe84ef7b3ce7 d2


CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) — Michael Jordan said there's no way Kobe Bryant and this year's USA Olympic basketball team could've beaten the 1992 Dream Team.

Jordan told The Associated Press Thursday that he laughed — "I absolutely laughed" — when hearing Bryant's comments that the squad training in Las Vegas could take Jordan and company.

Jordan said there's "no comparison" which team is better.

"For him to compare those two teams is not one of the smarter things he ever could have done," Jordan said prior playing in a celebrity golf tournament in Charlotte.

Jordan said the 1992 team, which included 11 future Hall of Famers and won its six Olympic games by an average of more than 43 points en route to capturing the gold medal, was a better overall team largely because of the experience it put on the floor.

"I heard Kobe say we were not athletic," said a smiling Jordan as he sat in a golf cart puffing on his cigar while waiting to tee off. "But we were smart. He said we were too old, but I was 29 and in the prime of my career. Pip (Scottie Pippen) was 26 or 27, (Charles) Barkley was 29, Patrick (Ewing) was 29 and Chris Mullin was 29. Almost everybody was still in their twenties."
Jordan's response came after Bryant told reporters in Las Vegas that this year's team could pull out a win against the Dream Team if they faced each other in their primes. Bryant said this year's team has a bunch of racehorses, players who are incredibly athletic while the Dream Team consisted mainly of players at the tail end of their careers."

Bryant's comments received immediate and sharp rebuttal from some members of the Dream Team, including Barkley.

Jordan joined in on Thursday.

"Most of us were in the prime of our careers, at a point where athleticism doesn't really matter," said Jordan, the owner of the Charlotte Bobcats. "You have to know how to play the game."

Jordan shook his head when asked why he thinks Bryant made the comments.

"I imagine he's trying to say it to legitimize his own Dream Team," Jordan said. "But to me it's not even a question what team is better."
Jordan said Bryant is certainly entitled to his opinion — even though he said it's just plain wrong.

"For him to make that comparison, it's one of those things where it creates conversation," Jordan said. "I guess we'll never know. I'd like to think that we had 11 Hall of Famers on that team and whenever they get 11 Hall of Famers you call and ask me who had the better Dream Team. Remember now, they learned from us. We didn't learn from them."

Would you say the bolded words from the last paragraph is a subtle shot at Kobe?

[RaininTwos]

You dont understand basketball? Hilarious, werent you asking people if they actually played the game? Point is Stockon/Magic have help behind them protecting the rim. Westbrook will eventually jack jumpers when he isnt as successful as you think he will be due to his athletic ability penetrating the defense. He'll start shooting jumpers playing right into their hands.

So what Westbrook is super athletic.



Ignorant? Stop being clueless. Steve Francis 2.0. Chandler wouldnt make a killing with Westbrook. CP3 perhaps because CP3 knows how to get guys easy buckets. And he doesnt need to be super athletic to do it. Chandler would get abused by the bigs on the opposing team and I doubt he'd be that effective vs them on the offensive end as well.

GOBB you can't read for shit. I understand basketball. I also understand that they call fouls during the Olympics, this isn't prison ball. Westbrook isn't scared of Ewing and D-Rob, can't believe you are even serious. Malone's shrinking in the moment ass isn't fear-inducing either. Westbrook just doesn't give a f*ck, he'll go after anyone.

A smart person could have retorted that Stock could use his dirty tactics to annoy Westbrook and throw him off his game and I would have agreed that could be a possibility.

No...not the mighty GOBB, he'd rather insult everyone and preserve his mythical air of superiority.:facepalm :rolleyes:

I understand basketball. I understand that Magic and Stock will need help which could free up Chandler for dunks and finishes around the rim since that's what he's been doing his whole damn career. Especially with Chris Paul at PG. Wow, how slow can you people be? I'm not even saying that the Dream Team won't win, that's how stupid you are. We are on the same side, my argument is that it is closer than people perceive it to be.

You have no respect for this era of basketball and it shows here. Westbrook is now just Steve Francis 2.0? Really? That's the best you could come up with? SMH. If Westbrook doesn't know how to get people easy buckets, yet every game I see him feeding offensively inept players like Collison and Perkins.....yup, your arguments make sense.

[juju151111]

Get real. Clyde was overrated player that couldn't even dribble without looking down. :oldlol:
Wats ur point? He still dropped 25 ppg.

[Clove21]

Why the hell would people focus on the Kobe vs Jordan matchup? Kobe is on the downturn and probably wouldn't be able to handle Jordan too well, but you got prime Lebron, Durant and Deron right now against players like Magic and Bird who were at the end of their career.

[G.O.A.T]

I always thought that 90 Jordan was his peak. The 92 version was pretty amazing as well, but I wasn't talking about a purely physical thing. I would just love to see Kobe's mentality going up against MJ and vice-versa. It would really be a treat to see.

I think you'd see the same thing you saw with Wizards Jordan going against the 20-something stars then. A guy who is ultra-competitive get frustrated cause his body can't do what his brain knows will work.

[DuMa]

a true basketball god speaks

[RaininTwos]

I think you'd see the same thing you saw with Wizards Jordan going against the 20-something stars then. A guy who is ultra-competitive get frustrated cause his body can't do what his brain knows will work.

Yeah something like that, but Wizards Jordan was really a nice player. I love watching him and when he got hot...watch out. I do think Kobe is still a couple steps ahead of that in terms of athleticism though.

[G.O.A.T]

Yeah something like that, but Wizards Jordan was really a nice player. I love watching him and when he got hot...watch out. I do think Kobe is still a couple steps ahead of that in terms of athleticism though.

Yep, feel the same way. Wizards Jordan was a very good player, but it was strange to see an aging MJ get beat on athleticism. I think Kobe would have the same issues against a team of guys between 25-29 who were the premier athletes and talents of their era.

[andgar923]

Andgar, is this a blow out to you?

Naw... not a blow out.

If they played a 7 game series I can see the Dream Team winning 5 of them, at least 2 by a very decisive margin.

Bottom line, it comes down to execution and who can get the easiest buckets.

Players from both sides will have a hard time guarding each other no doubt, but when it comes down to executing in the final moments, the Dream Team will come through far more consistently.

The New Team will have issues with TRUE 'zone' defense, specially zone being played by great individual defenders and high IQ ones. Sure, Stockton and Magic can't guard their counterparts, but with zone it doesn't matter. They're smart enough to know how to play them, and unlike in today's NBA which prohibits the players from clogging the lane, you'll have TRUE big men guarding the lane ready to switch.

The New Team will have to hit a bunch of tough shots, while the Dream Team will get buckets that aren't spectacular, appear to be boring and easy, but very effective.

Do people remember how the Spurs were dismantling teams with their pick and roll? well.. imagine that but with players in their prime, and with nothing but hall of famers finishing, all of which can pass, shoot, move without the ball and have extraordinary high IQs. Let's put it this way... if ANY of the Dream Teamers were to play in this era, each one of them would be the smartest player in the league (canceling each other out of course), and almost all of them would be MVP candidates with ease.

[rhythmic]

Yep, feel the same way. Wizards Jordan was a very good player, but it was strange to see an aging MJ get beat on athleticism. I think Kobe would have the same issues against a team of guys between 25-29 who were the premier athletes and talents of their era.

How exactly?
The guy had the least efficient season in league history did he not? (of anyone scoring 20+ points per game)

[Punpun]

OH MY GOD, ANOTHER COMPETITOR JUST CLAIMED THAT THE OTHER TEAM CANT EVEN TOUCH THEM. SO TOTALLY UNHEARD OF.

:yaohappy:

THAT ONE.

:biggums:

[tmacattack33]

The 2012 USA Team lacks size, but i believe the 2008 Redeem Team would have had a chance against the original Dream Team. Someone should ask MJ about that.

And Kobe probably didn't even really mean it when he said the 2012 team would beat the 92 Dream Team. He just wanted to support his current teammates and show confidence in his team...nothing wrong with that.

[guy]

Yeah, I don't think you know what you're talking about. Guarding PGs, especially one with CP3's quickness and handle, wasn't a strength of Pippen's. Quite the opposite, in fact. Team USA would be much better off putting Pippen on Kobe and MJ on CP3.

Yea cause you always know what you're talking about :oldlol: . Maybe I exagerrated. I would agree that that would be a better alternative. I was also taking into account that on the other end CP3 would be a liability since he wouldn't be able to guard anyone from that lineup. In fact, the more I think about it, Westbrook would probably be better in that matchup,but that brings a whole new set of problems and he wouldn't really be able to guard anyone either.

[Harison]

Jordan is right on this one, Kobe just talking trash. Everyone with any knowledge of basketball knows this match-up would be unfair.

[OldSchoolBBall]

In terms of skill/peak, I think that the MJ/Kobe gap is like splitting hairs. I always wonder if people here actually play basketball because people tend to think that players of Jordan's caliber are unbeatable.


First off, skill and peak are two entirely different things. Just because one is skilled doesn't mean they have impact. And Kobe is most certainly NOT as skilled as Jordan. Maybe in terms of strictly 1-on-1 ability with the ball he's close and arguably superior, but in terms of total basketball skill? No way. Jordan's off the ball game alone destroys Kobe's, and he was a far smarter player in general about using defender's momentum, his teammates' bodies etc. to get good looks. Better rebounder by a good margin, better passer/playmaker, better post player, better defender (vastly better team/help defender, actually). It adds up to at least a 10% difference in impact prime vs. prime and especially peak vs peak. No version of Kobe is seeing '89-'92 Jordan, and especially '90 or '91 Jordan.


Drazen didn't fear Jordan at all, dude dropped 40 on him the next year as a Net if I am not mistaken.

Petro never scored more than 26 on the Bulls, and that was on 40% shooting. He did have a couple of good games in the low-mid 20's against them, though. Regardless, players like Petrovic are in many ways harder to stop than players like Kobe, because he plays without the ball, is a better shooter, and was a smarter player. Kobe's strengths as an offensive player, by contrast, play right into Jordan's strengths as a defender. He'd get sucked in to a 1-on-1 battle and Jordan would pretty handily get the better of that matchup.

[rhythmic]

Jordan is right on this one, Kobe just talking trash. Everyone with any knowledge of basketball knows this match-up would be unfair.

Kobe probably has more basketball knowledge then 99.9% of the people in this thread.

[RaininTwos]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[rhythmic]

First off, skill and peak are two entirely different things. Just because one is skilled doesn't mean they have impact. And Kobe is most certainly NOT as skilled as Jordan. Maybe in terms of strictly 1-on-1 ability with the ball he's close and arguably superior, but in terms of total basketball skill? No way. Jordan's off the ball game alone destroys Kobe's, and he was a far smarter player in general about using defender's momentum, his teammates' bodies etc. to get good looks. Better rebounder by a good margin, better passer/playmaker, better post player, better defender (vastly better team/help defender, actually). It adds up to at least a 10% difference in impact prime vs. prime and especially peak vs peak. No version of Kobe is seeing '89-'92 Jordan, and especially '90 or '91 Jordan.



Petro never scored more than 26 on the Bulls, and that was on 40% shooting. He did have a couple of good games in the low-mid 20's against them, though. Regardless, players like Petrovic are in many ways harder to stop than players like Kobe, because he plays without the ball, is a better shooter, and was a smarter player. Kobe's strengths as an offensive player, by contrast, play right into Jordan's strengths as a defender. He'd get sucked in to a 1-on-1 battle and Jordan would pretty handily get the better of that matchup.

Please ban this clown, all he ever talks about is Jordan or dissing Kobe.
That's all, don't need his one-dimensional homerism in here.

At least that jlauber guy just mostly defends Wilt, this guy genuinely dislikes Kobe and consistently has bias rants about him.

[Xiao Yao You]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[LJJ]

How exactly?
The guy had the least efficient season in league history did he not? (of anyone scoring 20+ points per game)

Not really. At age 38-39 he still averaged more RPG and APG, and less TOP than Kobe Bryant for his career.

Not even Kobe's worst season, career average. That's pretty damn efficient across the stat sheet. Sure his FG% wasn't what it used to be (at almost 40 years old), but being an efficient playing on the floor is about more than just shooting percentage.

[RaininTwos]

First off, skill and peak are two entirely different things. Just because one is skilled doesn't mean they have impact. And Kobe is most certainly NOT as skilled as Jordan. Maybe in terms of strictly 1-on-1 ability with the ball he's close and arguably superior, but in terms of total basketball skill? No way. Jordan's off the ball game alone destroys Kobe's, and he was a far smarter player in general about using defender's momentum, his teammates' bodies etc. to get good looks. Better rebounder by a good margin, better passer/playmaker, better post player, better defender (vastly better team/help defender, actually). It adds up to at least a 10% difference in impact prime vs. prime and especially peak vs peak. No version of Kobe is seeing '89-'92 Jordan, and especially '90 or '91 Jordan.



Petro never scored more than 26 on the Bulls, and that was on 40% shooting. He did have a couple of good games in the low-mid 20's against them, though. Regardless, players like Petrovic are in many ways harder to stop than players like Kobe, because he plays without the ball, is a better shooter, and was a smarter player. Kobe's strengths as an offensive player, by contrast, play right into Jordan's strengths as a defender. He'd get sucked in to a 1-on-1 battle and Jordan would pretty handily get the better of that matchup.
I was wrong about the Drazen bit, but god damn, I guess Jordan is Jesus. Here we go with the massive overrating of the guy again.

[G.O.A.T]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[Harison]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[swag2011]

Damn, after reading the whole thing Jordan went IN on Kobe lmao. And i'm a Kobe stan. But why are people making it seem like he said this out of no where? Why is no one (ESPN) or anything mentioning that he was ASKED?


http://video-embed.nola.com/services/player/bcpid651482428001?bctid=1727434664001&bckey=AQ~~,AAAAPmbRMTE~,BWCCSzT6s9n2dkm1Oa2dELBPh6 LJOKDw

[rhythmic]

Someone forgot to take into account various things like: his teammates, the Eastern conference slugfest era he was in, his age and lack of athleticism

Jordan scoring 20+ was amazing to watch. I'm not a stan but seeing what he had to go through to get those points I have respect for those seasons.

Why did you quote me?
Who the hell said it wasn't a great accomplishment? The other poster simply said "Jordan was very good on the Wizards", I disagree considering the guy had the least efficient shooting season in history at 40.

And yes I agree, at 40 years of age: Jordan was still very impressive.

[andgar923]

First off, skill and peak are two entirely different things. Just because one is skilled doesn't mean they have impact. And Kobe is most certainly NOT as skilled as Jordan. Maybe in terms of strictly 1-on-1 ability with the ball he's close and arguably superior, but in terms of total basketball skill? No way. Jordan's off the ball game alone destroys Kobe's, and he was a far smarter player in general about using defender's momentum, his teammates' bodies etc. to get good looks. Better rebounder by a good margin, better passer/playmaker, better post player, better defender (vastly better team/help defender, actually). It adds up to at least a 10% difference in impact prime vs. prime and especially peak vs peak. No version of Kobe is seeing '89-'92 Jordan, and especially '90 or '91 Jordan.



Petro never scored more than 26 on the Bulls, and that was on 40% shooting. He did have a couple of good games in the low-mid 20's against them, though. Regardless, players like Petrovic are in many ways harder to stop than players like Kobe, because he plays without the ball, is a better shooter, and was a smarter player. Kobe's strengths as an offensive player, by contrast, play right into Jordan's strengths as a defender. He'd get sucked in to a 1-on-1 battle and Jordan would pretty handily get the better of that matchup.

Funny how I always read these MJ vs Kobe one on one comparisons, people fail to realize a game is different then a one on one matchup. And even then, how many times do we see Kobe take hard 'contested' jumpers, while MJ had tons of clean looks at the basket as he easily separated himself from his defender/s?

Kobe fans love to relish on Kobe's tough contested shots, which is a joke actually. MJ was such a good one on one player and was superior in almost every single aspect that he was basically getting open looks.

Fools.

Like you mentioned, Kobe would play into MJ's hands.

[tpols]

I was wrong about the Drazen bit, but god damn, I guess Jordan is Jesus. Here we go with the massive overrating of the guy again.
Jordan was GOD. Kobe is a mere disciple:bowdown: :bowdown:

[tpols]

Funny how I always read these MJ vs Kobe one on one comparisons, people fail to realize a game is different then a one on one matchup. And even then, how many times do we see Kobe take hard 'contested' jumpers, while MJ had tons of clean looks at the basket as he easily separated himself from his defender/s?

Kobe fans love to relish on Kobe's tough contested shots, which is a joke actually. MJ was such a good one on one player and was superior in almost every single aspect that he was basically getting open looks.

Fools.

Like you mentioned, Kobe would play into MJ's hands.
In a one on one setting with no help defense, Kobe would blow by MJ or get wide open clean looks from midrange at will.

[RaininTwos]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[andgar923]

In a one on one setting with no help defense, Kobe would blow by MJ or get wide open clean looks from midrange at will.

LOL

YOu mean the other way around.

Again... MJ used to get uncontested shots faaaaaaaar more than Kobe ever did, and this is during game situations where defenders are switching and the lanes were clogged, hand checking was legal etc.etc.

WTF do you think will happen if Kobe guarded him on a one on one matchup?

This is MJ the same dude that would viciously make Pip into his personal bitch so badly that coaches had to stop the abuse. Yes, that Pippen, the player usually regarded as the best wing defender of all time.

ROFL Kobe would be taking contested jumper after contested jumper after contested jumper.

[rhythmic]

Not really. At age 38-39 he still averaged more RPG and APG, and less TOP than Kobe Bryant for his career.

Not even Kobe's worst season, career average. That's pretty damn efficient across the stat sheet. Sure his FG% wasn't what it used to be (at almost 40 years old), but being an efficient playing on the floor is about more than just shooting percentage.

I haven't been on this forum for too long and I'm usually not very active, but I am starting to see why there are so many Kobe fans defending the guy.

It's funny how the same excuses guys like you make for Jordan, don't fly when it's for Kobe. How traits like competitiveness, killer instinct etc. don't get Kobe the nod; no for him, it's "guy's FG is lower then Wade's, he is not as good." Look at GOAT's post; "but Jordan was competitive, he won games for Washington...". Or yours "he still averaged more RPG and APG and less TOP".

Honest question, do you guys actually see the double standard in all of this?

Jordan played two years in Washington I believe, his last season he had the least efficient shooting season in league history for anyone who averaged over 20 PPG. That is a damn fact, open the record books, research it etc.

Jordan at 40 was still running after Ron Mercer and blocking him like he's his bitch. Yes, Jordan is the greatest ever (well 2nd to Magic, but that's my personal opinion). And at 40, he was still impressive, very impressive indeed. Maybe I misunderstood what GOAT was trying to say, did he mean Jordan was very good "for his age" or "compared to the best in the league that year"? If he meant the latter, then that is absolutely not true.

*I am talking about his final season, not sure why you guys are referring to his 1st season with Washington.

[get these NETS]

anybody else remember the line

"why all my cases ain't get thrown out/
and why does team usa keep getting blown out?/




team with duncan,iverson, young beron, young wade, young melo,

stunk up the joint in 2004

prime iverson and duncan..and they lost...



dream team just kicked everybody's ass..........greatest TEAM ever assembled...

[OldSchoolBBall]

I was wrong about the Drazen bit, but god damn, I guess Jordan is Jesus. Here we go with the massive overrating of the guy again.

How did I overrate him by saying he would outplay Kobe? He was clearly the better player, so I'm not sure what the problem is. It's revisionist history to act like they're equal or even almost equal. Kobe needs to see Magic and Bird before he can see Jordan.

[rhythmic]

Damn, after reading the whole thing Jordan went IN on Kobe lmao. And i'm a Kobe stan. But why are people making it seem like he said this out of no where? Why is no one (ESPN) or anything mentioning that he was ASKED?


http://video-embed.nola.com/services/player/bcpid651482428001?bctid=1727434664001&bckey=AQ~~,AAAAPmbRMTE~,BWCCSzT6s9n2dkm1Oa2dELBPh6 LJOKDw

Erase this, after listening to the context of the question and Kobe's reply.
I change my opinion on Jordan, he really is a pompous jackass.

Kobe is on the damn team, and a reporter asks him a direct question. As a leader you try to motivate your team, what did you people expect him to say "Oh we have no shot against the Dream Team"? :rolleyes:

Of course Jordan had to reply to feed his gigantic ego.

[LJJ]

I haven't been on this forum for too long and I'm usually not very active, but I am starting to see why there are so many Kobe fans defending the guy.

It's funny how the same excuses guys like you make for Jordan, don't fly when it's for Kobe. How traits like competitiveness, killer instinct etc. don't get Kobe the nod; no for him, it's "guy's FG is lower then Wade's, he is not as good." Look at GOAT's post; "but Jordan was competitive, he won games for Washington...". Or yours "he still averaged more RPG and APG and less TOP".

Honest question, do you guys actually see the double standard in all of this?

Jordan played two years in Washington I believe, his last season he had the least efficient shooting season in league history for anyone who averaged over 20 PPG. That is a damn fact, open the record books, research it etc.

Jordan at 40 was still running after Ron Mercer and blocking him like he's his bitch. Yes, Jordan is the greatest ever (well 2nd to Magic, but that's my personal opinion). And at 40, he was still impressive, very impressive indeed. Maybe I misunderstood what GOAT was trying to say, did he mean Jordan was very good "for his age" or "compared to the best in the league that year"? If he meant the latter, then that is absolutely not true.

*I am talking about his final season, not sure why you guys are referring to his 1st season with Washington.

First you are talking about efficient. Which should obviously be interpreted as efficient overall, not specifically in one carefully segmented element of the game.

Now you have changed up to strictly "shot efficiency".

Those are two extremely different things, idiot. Old MJ was still an efficient and very good player in his final years, but not an efficient shooter anymore.

[tpols]

LOL

YOu mean the other way around.

Again... MJ used to get uncontested shots faaaaaaaar more than Kobe ever did, and this is during game situations where defenders are switching and the lanes were clogged, hand checking was legal etc.etc.

WTF do you think will happen if Kobe guarded him on a one on one matchup?

This is MJ the same dude that would viciously make Pip into his personal bitch so badly that coaches had to stop the abuse. Yes, that Pippen, the player usually regarded as the best wing defender of all time.

ROFL Kobe would be taking contested jumper after contested jumper after contested jumper.
It would happen both ways.. Kobe's first step, length, and footwork though would allow him to create space with ease in a one on one setting. And if MJ pressed him Kobe would be gone.

Of course Kobe's been used to having 6'7-6'8 beasts on him with longer reaches, very quick feet, and pure defensive specialist mentalities as well so having a 6'4.5 Jordan on him would be like heaven to shoot over.. would be like he wasnt even there.

[OldSchoolBBall]

In a one on one setting with no help defense, Kobe would blow by MJ or get wide open clean looks from midrange at will.

And who plays in a one on one setting with no help? This isn't one on one ball. And you're kidding yourself if you think that Jordan couldn't stay in front of Kobe or contest his shots to a FAR greater degree than vice versa. FAR greater. Jordan could get by Kobe at will even in a GAME setting - never mind one on one with no help.

[tontoz]

Why the hell would people focus on the Kobe vs Jordan matchup? Kobe is on the downturn and probably wouldn't be able to handle Jordan too well, but you got prime Lebron, Durant and Deron right now against players like Magic and Bird who were at the end of their career.


:wtf:


First of all Bird wasn't even practicing with the team and hardly played at all. Secondly why would Magic be guarding Lebron? LOL

Lebron would have Pippen guarding him genius.

[andgar923]

It would happen both ways.. Kobe's first step, length, and footwork though would allow him to create space with ease in a one on one setting. And if MJ pressed him Kobe would be gone.

Of course Kobe's been used to having 6'7-6'8 beasts on him with longer reaches, very quick feet, and pure defensive specialist mentalities as well so having a 6'4.5 Jordan on him would be like heaven to shoot over.. would be like he wasnt even there.
idiot

[eliteballer]

You guys are complete morons. Jordans own teamates and coaches say Kobe is comparable/close to Jordan. Yet you act like Jordan is going against some D-Leaguer.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Because Jordan is the best evaluator of talent... In fact MJ believing that the DT would win makes me believe that 2012 would destroy them because he is such a bad basketball mnd.


:lol

this.

[jlip]

The difference maker in this hypothetical matchup would not be MJ or Kobe. It would be in the paint. The Dream Team bigs would be their biggest advantage. Plus let's stop acting like the Dream Team was this omniscient, all wise group of sages who invented basketball while the '12 team is filled with ignorant rookies with no knowledge of the game who only know how to run and jump.

[rhythmic]

First you are talking about efficient. Which should obviously be interpreted as efficient overall, not specifically in one carefully segmented element of the game.

Now you have changed up to strictly "shot efficiency".

Those are two extremely different things, idiot. Old MJ was still an efficient and very good player in his final years, but not an efficient shooter anymore.

I put in brackets (for any player who scored over 20 PPG). I am sorry your tiny brain couldn't comprehend what I meant, idiot.

If I meant overall efficiency I probably would have used stats such as PER or other parameters, but I bet you realized that back then; you just couldn't help yourself from riding Jordan's dick some more.

[juju151111]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[swag2011]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[Clove21]

:wtf:


First of all Bird wasn't even practicing with the team and hardly played at all. Secondly why would Magic be guarding Lebron? LOL

Lebron would have Pippen guarding him genius.

I'm not talking about head to head matchups. I'm talking about looking at the state of the team as a whole.

People go "OMG, Dream Team had Jordan/Magic/Bird, they can't ever lose!!!" and don't think about it being old Magic and Bird. They are going on name alone and not looking at how all players involved were/are playing.

The only matchup people are treating as a reality is the 29 year old Jordan vs 34 year old Kobe matchup.

Put the Jordan matchup aside and tell me who on the original Dream Team dominates the game to the point that they blow out the 12' team? And then tell me who shuts down Lebron (Pippen, lol), Durant and Deron?

Not happening.

[tpols]

idiot
:coleman:

[dazzer87]

Kobe=MJ
.


Typical KOME d1ck Rider................:facepalm

[LJJ]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[rhythmic]

Maybe because Kobe fans overrate him and at 40 Mj barly played and was playing injured. He had knee sergery before the season the guy could barly move. The fact that Mj was dropping 40 pt and 50 pt games at age 39-40 on bum knees is something.
Magic is not even top 2

:oldlol: Yeah because Jordan isn't probably the single most overrated player of All-Time. OldSchool exemplifies everything wrong with Jordan fans.

Kobe? I've watched him play since he entered the league, since I was 6 years old. Over the years he has NEVER been my favorite player. I do not necessarily like him as a person, nor do I think he makes good decisions or is the best teammate to have. I also think he is extremely arrogant but very talented.

But I always see people call him out for those faults he has, I see people critisize every other damn player to ever play the game. When's the last time Jordan was criticized? ...about ANYTHING.

He was an asshole as a player, a horrible teammate who treated his teammates like dog shit. He had terrible games in crucial settings, he missed 20+ shots, he took 45+ shots in a game etc. Yet, he's untouchable.

Bullshit, I'll take Magic Johnson over Michael Jordan any day of the week, especially if I had 4 scrubs around them.

Anyways, done with this conversation already gave me a giant headache.

[tontoz]

I'm not talking about head to head matchups. I'm talking about looking at the state of the team as a whole.

People go "OMG, Dream Team had Jordan/Magic/Bird, they can't ever lose!!!" and don't think about it being old Magic and Bird. They are going on name alone and not looking at how all players involved were/are playing.

The only matchup people are treating as a reality is the 29 year old Jordan vs 34 year old Kobe matchup.

Put the Jordan matchup aside and tell me who on the original Dream Team dominates the game to the point that they blow out the 12' team? And then tell me who shuts down Lebron (Pippen, lol), Durant and Deron?

Not happening.


The Dream Team has a huge advantage in the paint. Ewing/DRob/Malone/Barkley are all better than any big on the current team.

Pippen was one of the best wing defenders in league history. If Lebron had trouble with a declining Marion i think Pippen could hold his own.

Who shuts down Deron, the guy who shot 40.7% this year? :oldlol:

[rhythmic]

It's not my fault that your idiot ass is incapable of composing sentences that correctly reflect what you are trying to say.

What, I'm supposed to smell that you mean something different than what you actually post? That was you being serious?

No, that was you being seriously retarded.

Cool story moron, now f!ck off.

[guy]

I was wrong about the Drazen bit, but god damn, I guess Jordan is Jesus. Here we go with the massive overrating of the guy again.

He didn't call Jordan Jesus. He just went into a detailed explanation about part of the reason he was better then Kobe. Tell us what he's wrong about if you think so.

[GOBB]

He didn't call Jordan Jesus. He just went into a detailed explanation about part of the reason he was better then Kobe. Tell us what he's wrong about if you think so.

He cant. He doesnt know how to start.

[juju151111]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[get these NETS]

I'm not talking about head to head matchups. I'm talking about looking at the state of the team as a whole.

People go "OMG, Dream Team had Jordan/Magic/Bird, they can't ever lose!!!" and don't think about it being old Magic and Bird. They are going on name alone and not looking at how all players involved were/are playing.

The only matchup people are treating as a reality is the 29 year old Jordan vs 34 year old Kobe matchup.

Put the Jordan matchup aside and tell me who on the original Dream Team dominates the game to the point that they blow out the 12' team? And then tell me who shuts down Lebron (Pippen, lol), Durant and Deron?

Not happening.




barkely/malone ewing /robinson....

in any combo serves whoever plays 4-5 for 2012

not even close

[Raz]

CT: Ewing/ Robinson/ Laettner
PF: Barkley/ Malone
SF: Pippen/ Bird/ Mullin
SG: Jordan/ Drexler
PG: Johnson/ Stockton

CT: Chandler/ Love
PF: James/ Iguodala/ Griffin
SF: Durant/ Anthony
SG: Bryant/ Harden
PG: Paul/ Williams/ Westbrook

First thing that comes to mind is that absolutely no one on the current team can guard Charles Barkley. He's going to score almost every time he touches the ball. He shot 71% from the field. That's right, 71%. Jordan could make life difficult for anyone in the 2012 team's backcourt. Pippen and Malone could guard LeBron on different areas of the court, and when the 2012 tries LeBron and center, D-Rob would have been fast enough to keep up with him.

The only weakness for the Dream Team was point guard, due to Stockton being injured, and Magic being slower. Pippen played a lot of point guard though, and excelled. Frankly, if Stockton is healthy, he and Pippen would ruin Paul, Williams and Westbrook.

[RaininTwos]

He didn't call Jordan Jesus. He just went into a detailed explanation about part of the reason he was better then Kobe. Tell us what he's wrong about if you think so.


He cant. He doesnt know how to start.

Funny how GOBB cant respond when I come at him, but he piggybacks other posters. Shame on you for that.

He's right though, I can't respond, I've got stuff to do lol.

I will say this, I have no qualms with him saying Jordan is better, the problem is how he presents the gap as being grand canyon sized. Something that no one in their right mind should agree with.

GOBB is still an idiot by the way.

[LJJ]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[guy]

Funny how GOBB cant respond when I come at him, but he piggybacks other posters. Shame on you for that.

He's right though, I can't respond, I've got stuff to do lol.

I will say this, I have no qualms with him saying Jordan is better, the problem is how he presents the gap as being grand canyon sized. Something that no one in their right mind should agree with.

GOBB is still an idiot by the way.

You've got stuff to do? Then why are you responding with a sarcastic comment? He didn't even say anything insulting Kobe, infact he said that Kobe maybe even a more skilled 1 on 1 player. I don't know, sounds like a back pedaling response on your part.

[SpecialQue]

Christian Laettner gives the Dream Team the edge.

[get these NETS]

Christian Laettner gives the Dream Team the edge.


word....

he knows every move coach k is going to do....so he could give the dream team a heads up....

[RaininTwos]

First off, skill and peak are two entirely different things. Just because one is skilled doesn't mean they have impact. And Kobe is most certainly NOT as skilled as Jordan. Maybe in terms of strictly 1-on-1 ability with the ball he's close and arguably superior, but in terms of total basketball skill? No way. Jordan's off the ball game alone destroys Kobe's, and he was a far smarter player in general about using defender's momentum, his teammates' bodies etc. to get good looks. Better rebounder by a good margin, better passer/playmaker, better post player, better defender (vastly better team/help defender, actually). It adds up to at least a 10% difference in impact prime vs. prime and especially peak vs peak. No version of Kobe is seeing '89-'92 Jordan, and especially '90 or '91 Jordan.



Petro never scored more than 26 on the Bulls, and that was on 40% shooting. He did have a couple of good games in the low-mid 20's against them, though. Regardless, players like Petrovic are in many ways harder to stop than players like Kobe, because he plays without the ball, is a better shooter, and was a smarter player. Kobe's strengths as an offensive player, by contrast, play right into Jordan's strengths as a defender. He'd get sucked in to a 1-on-1 battle and Jordan would pretty handily get the better of that matchup.

Bolded= trolling. There is no way that Jordan is better in every facet of the damn game in comparison to Kobe. The fact that you guys see nothing wrong with what this notorious troll said is telling. I understand that you guys love MJ, I really get it, but this is out of hand. 02-03 Kobe, 07-08 Kobe are definitely competing with Jordan to the very end. You could throw in 05-06 and some other years as well.

Kobe is also an all-time great defender and I am not just going by some First team defense selections either. I've seen Kobe take on and shut down some of the best scorers the league has ever seen in a golden era of swingmen. We are talking about Kobe defending prime versions of: T-mac,Pierce,AI,Carter,Ray Allen,etc.

Kobe is a student of the game and has learned a lot of from MJ, but he's also made some things on his own as well. I don't understand how you can look at the two players and think in a head to head matchup, both in their primes, Kobe is 10% away from Jordan. That's the very definition of trolling.

This is what I've been talking about the whole summer, Jordan is getting overrated by guys on here. I don't even know what the hell I was watching all these years on WGN and the internet. It must have been a slightly less godly Jordan out there because these fables that people call descriptions are laughable.

I agree that Jordan is a slightly better player at their respective peaks, but if they went up against each other in a game, I wouldn't know who to choose.

[Rake2204]

I understand how this is a completely hypothetical discussion and there's no real way to prove who'd be right, but I remain surprised with how many people are so quick to discredit many of the stars on the '92 Dream Team when comparing them to current '12 Olympians.

Much of the focus seems to be revolving around the top stars of one roster vs. the top stars of the other roster (i.e. MJ, Magic vs. Kobe, LeBron). It is my feeling one of the prevailing traits of the original Dream Team is their entire roster (discounting Laettner) was made up of absolute, top of the line super stars. To simply mention the presence of Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, and Karl Malone off-hand is a complete disservice to the discussion. To me, players like that are the reason the original Dream Team would have such a healthy advantage.

In total, using Bill Simmons' updated Pyramid ranking as a very, very (very) loose base, the Dream Team featured 8 of the top 29 players of all-time (10 of the Top 44). All but two of those players were virtually in the prime of their respective careers. Even then, unprime Magic Johnson's last season in the NBA prior to his HIV announcement ('91) featured 19ppg, 7rpg, and 12apg on 48% shooting. Bird's '92 season produced 20ppg, 10rpg, and 7apg (though I suppose one thing that'd have to be discussed would be whether the original Dream Team would have a healthy Bird or an injured one in this comparison. Healthy, he was still putting in work. Injured, he was hardly a shell of his former self).

Anyhow, with the Dream Team boasting 8 Top 50 players in their prime (or top 44 according to Simmons), I must wonder how many players from the '12 team hold that status. Overall, I believe at least three players from the current squad will go down in history on the front side of top 50 (top 25): Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Durant (and/or Chris Paul). Of those three (now four with Paul), one is no longer in their prime (Bryant). That leaves three prime top 50 players. The next question may be, is there anyone else on the '12 team that may end up in that area (top 50) by the time they're said and done? Are we experiencing the beginning of what will be a historically fruitful prime for guys like Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?

From the looks of it, every single non-Laettner member of the Dream Team was in the midst of a Hall of Fame career. Like Kobe Bryant, Magic Johnson and Larry Bird's careers were no longer skewing upward. But that still left guys like Chris Mullin, a jump shooter coming off a 26ppg season on 53% shooting, John Stockton averaging 16ppg and 14apg, and David Flippin' Robinson averaging 23ppg, 12rpg, and 5bpg. How many '12 Dream Teamers do we believe to be in the midst of no-doubt Hall of Fame careers? I ask this sincerely.

I just don't see how the '12 Dream Team stacks up in any way, through and through. James Harden, Andre Iguodala, Tyson Chandler and Deron Williams are not the answer to Clyde Drexler, Scottie Pippen, Patrick Ewing, and John Stockton. With that said, if we transplanted the likes of LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, and Kevin Durant to 1992, I think they would have fit right in with the original Dream Team.

[Kingwillball]

Clyde a worse version of Granger. Shut ur dumbass up. 29 year old Mj>>>>>>>>> 34 year old Kobe



Drexler>>>>>>>>>>>Granger its not that close

[Linspired]

Westbrook, the most athletic PG ever, would do some unspeakable things to Magic and Stock.

after westbrook does unspeakable things to magic, Ewing & Co will be waiting for him do the unspeakable things around the rim. After that unspeakable things, westbrook decides to shoot jumpers instead of driving to the hoop, and when that happens coach K will sit his a$$ down.

and no, westbrook who isn't even a PG, is not more athletic than derrick rose. don't be silly.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

I don't think the gap between Jordan/Kobe is as big as some believe. But at the same time, there is a gap. Kobe is a beast, 2nd best SG ever. But Jordan was the lead-dog for every team he played on in the NBA. Kobe was a sidekick for like 8 seasons.

Hey dumbass if youre a sidekick next to the BEST PLAYER IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE how can you fault that?!

[RaininTwos]

after westbrook does unspeakable things to magic, Ewing & Co will be waiting for him do the unspeakable things around the rim. After that unspeakable things, westbrook decides to shoot jumpers instead of driving to the hoop, and when that happens coach K will sit his a$$ down.

and no, westbrook who isn't even a PG, is not more athletic than derrick rose. don't be silly.
Derrick Rose who just tore his ACL is more athletic than Westbrook? Even when he was healthy it was debatable.

Also I guess fouls aren't being called unless you think Ewing and D-Rob are going block every single drive cleanly. :facepalm

[guy]

Bolded= trolling. There is no way that Jordan is better in every facet of the damn game in comparison to Kobe. The fact that you guys see nothing wrong with what this notorious troll said is telling.

:oldlol: Thats your argument? Why don't you actually say what Kobe is better at instead of dismissing it as impossible, which it isn't.

[tontoz]

Derrick Rose who just tore his ACL is more athletic than Westbrook? Even when he was healthy it was debatable.

Also I guess fouls aren't being called unless you think Ewing and D-Rob are going block every single drive cleanly. :facepalm


They don't have to block his shot to force him to miss or prevent a shot. And if the lane gets cut off he isn't going to suddenly become a pg and consistently find an open man.

[Linspired]

Derrick Rose who just tore his ACL is more athletic than Westbrook? Even when he was healthy it was debatable.

Also I guess fouls aren't being called unless you think Ewing and D-Rob are going block every single drive cleanly. :facepalm


you said most athletic PG EVER. you didn't say most athletic PG right now.

no one can prove who is more 'athletic', but rose did have better standing vert, max vert, and 3/4 court sprint. and IMO rose looks visibly more agile than russell.

and let's not act like physical plays = automatic foul. foul or no foul, damn boys back in the days know how to play tough D and send a message. westbrook is like a little boy running around like a deer in the headlight to them.

:facepalm

[Linspired]

oh by the way, AI would run circles around westbrook and AI is also 'shoot first PG' just like westbrook was. :roll:

[Linspired]

whoever said clyde is worse version of granger should quit NBA for humanity.

clyde and granger? lol i've read it all.

[Callystarr]

I don't see how 1992 vs. 2012 is even a comparison. From a statistical standpoint its absolutely NO comparison....these are the seasons these men were coming off of...

So lets make some comparisons really the only way that we can, statistics....

Because I sincerely doubt, this team will be beating these international teams by nearly 50 points per game :lol


David Robinson 23.2points - 12.2reb - 2.3stl, 4.5blk, .551FG%
VS.
Kevin Love 26.0points - 13.3reb - .448FG% (pathetic)
***David Robinson is a much better overall player, add on his defensive presence.

Patrick Ewing 24.0points - 11.2reb - 1.0stl, 3.0blk, .522FG%
VS.
Blake Griffin 20.7points - 10.9reb - 3.2ast, .549FG%
***Pretty nice even matchup, Patrick had the edge on the defensive end.

Larry Bird 20.2points - 9.6reb - 6.8ast - .406/3PT
VS.
Lebron James 27.1points - 7.9reb - 6.2ast - 1.9stl - .531FG%
***This is actually a good matchup up of individuals who can work both ends of the floor. Larry the better shooter, and puts up equally impressive overall stats. What is crazy, is Larry put those stats up in his FINAL year in the NBA. I doubt that many players will be able to put up stats like that after 12 plus years...

Scottie Pippen 21.0points - 7.7reb - 7.0ast - 1.9stl
VS.
James Harden 16.8points - 4.1reb - 3.7ast
***HAHA joking right? Scottie in a landslide...

Michael Jordan 30.1points - 6.4reb - 6.1ast - 2.3stl, .519FG%
VS.
Kobe Bryant 27.9points - 5.4reb - 4.6ast - 1.2stl, .430FG% (Pathetic)
***No comparison, Kobe's shooting percentage is below the NBA average..

Clyde Drexler 25.0points - 6.6reb - 6.7ast - 1.8stl
vs.
Kevin Durant 28.0points - 8.0reb - 3.5ast - 1.3stl
***Kevin Durant, solid player...he is going into his own.

Karl Malone 28.0points - 11.2reb - 1.3stl - .526FG%
VS.
Tyson Chandler 11.3points - 9.0reb - .679FG%
***Mailman takes this one easy

John Stockton 15.8points - 13.7ast - 3.0stl - .407/3PT
VS
Deron Williams 21.0points - 8.7ast - 1.2stl - .407FG% (pathetic)
***Deron could never live up to Stockton's presence, even when in Utah...turnover city!

Chris Mullin 25.6points - 5.6reb - 2.1stl - .524FG%
VS.
Carmello Anthony 22.6points - 6.3ast - .430FG% (pathetic)
***Chris Mullin, in his prime was a better shooting version of Scottie Pippen, without the athleticism. The man could flat out shoot....

Charles Barkley 23.1points - 11.1reb - 4.1ast - 1.8stl - .552FG%
VS.
Andre Igoudala 12.4points - 6.1reb - 5.5ast - 1.7stl
***LAUGHS AGAIN!!!!!

Magic Johnson - 19.4points - 7.0reb - 12.5ast
VS.
Chris Paul - 19.8points - 9.1ast - 2.5stl
***again no comment

Russell Westbrook - 23.6points - 4.6reb - 5.6ast - 1.7stl
VS.
Christean Laettner
***well finally this years team wins...


Jordan had it right on the money, basketball back then folks had a higher IQ. Today's game is full of individuals forcing shots and settling for 3pointers....1992 Dream Team would smash any other US Olympic team ever assembled. HANDS DOWN!!!!

[Rake2204]

Also I guess fouls aren't being called unless you think Ewing and D-Rob are going block every single drive cleanly. :facepalm
To be fair, oftentimes actual blocked shots are just a small part of what makes having a Hall of Fame center in the middle so effective. Even from my lame basketball playing history of going against relatively unathletic 6'9'' guys, sometimes just having them there is enough to at least make a player think twice about both when they're going to choose to attack and how they're going to attack.

For instance, if Joel Anthony was waiting in the paint for Westbrook, I think a relentless attack would be at the forefront of Russell's mind. However, placing a 7'1'' Patrick Ewing or David Robinson back there (big men who actually had significant skills) would surely have to alter how Westbrook was going to attack. If he attempted to challenge those two just as he would a 6'9'' scrub, I feel as though his wild shot attempts would spike significantly. That's not to say he'd be shut down 100% of the time, but it's just not as simple as "Westbrook blow by Stockton, Westbrook dunk, get fouled, or get blocked". The big thing missing is, "Westbrook must pull up, change shot, retain dribble and escape elsewhere, or force bad shot into contact." Elite big man effects go well beyond block or foul.

[Take Your Lumps]

Gotta side with MJ on this one but not necessarily based on pure talent and athleticism.

Players today are just mentally softer. Too many mental giants on that '92 squad.

[Linspired]

and i'm not sure if this was brought up. but 92 dream team would out rebound 12 team by a large margin.

yes, love is a great rebounder, but he will get beat up by malone & barkley. and chandler can't even hold ewing & drob's jockstrap. blake? shakey at best. bron? sure he will get 6-7 rebounds, but 92 team is just too big and physical.


you can't teach toughness, length, and power. westbrook won't see much playing time. harden will never see a playing time. deron and cp3 would have to be perfect, but they are far from perfect. kobe would have to sacrifice his role and let durant/bron be the go to guy, but will he?

[General]

2012 team can't win without a prime Kobe leading them. Maybe if Bosh, Howard, and Wade were on the team.

[RaininTwos]

They don't have to block his shot to force him to miss or prevent a shot. And if the lane gets cut off he isn't going to suddenly become a pg and consistently find an open man.
He finds cutting big men on the regular for OKC, but now that he's playing with better big men he wont?

With the way you guys talk about him, I wonder how he gets assists.

[Linspired]

I don't see how 1992 vs. 2012 is even a comparison. From a statistical standpoint its absolutely NO comparison....these are the seasons these men were coming off of...

So lets make some comparisons really the only way that we can, statistics....

Because I sincerely doubt, this team will be beating these international teams by nearly 50 points per game :lol


David Robinson 23.2points - 12.2reb - 2.3stl, 4.5blk, .551FG%
VS.
Kevin Love 26.0points - 13.3reb - .448FG% (pathetic)
***David Robinson is a much better overall player, add on his defensive presence.

Patrick Ewing 24.0points - 11.2reb - 1.0stl, 3.0blk, .522FG%
VS.
Blake Griffin 20.7points - 10.9reb - 3.2ast, .549FG%
***Pretty nice even matchup, Patrick had the edge on the defensive end.

Larry Bird 20.2points - 9.6reb - 6.8ast - .406/3PT
VS.
Lebron James 27.1points - 7.9reb - 6.2ast - 1.9stl - .531FG%
***This is actually a good matchup up of individuals who can work both ends of the floor. Larry the better shooter, and puts up equally impressive overall stats. What is crazy, is Larry put those stats up in his FINAL year in the NBA. I doubt that many players will be able to put up stats like that after 12 plus years...

Scottie Pippen 21.0points - 7.7reb - 7.0ast - 1.9stl
VS.
James Harden 16.8points - 4.1reb - 3.7ast
***HAHA joking right? Scottie in a landslide...

Michael Jordan 30.1points - 6.4reb - 6.1ast - 2.3stl, .519FG%
VS.
Kobe Bryant 27.9points - 5.4reb - 4.6ast - 1.2stl, .430FG% (Pathetic)
***No comparison, Kobe's shooting percentage is below the NBA average..

Clyde Drexler 25.0points - 6.6reb - 6.7ast - 1.8stl
vs.
Kevin Durant 28.0points - 8.0reb - 3.5ast - 1.3stl
***Kevin Durant, solid player...he is going into his own.

Karl Malone 28.0points - 11.2reb - 1.3stl - .526FG%
VS.
Tyson Chandler 11.3points - 9.0reb - .679FG%
***Mailman takes this one easy

John Stockton 15.8points - 13.7ast - 3.0stl - .407/3PT
VS
Deron Williams 21.0points - 8.7ast - 1.2stl - .407FG% (pathetic)
***Deron could never live up to Stockton's presence, even when in Utah...turnover city!

Chris Mullin 25.6points - 5.6reb - 2.1stl - .524FG%
VS.
Carmello Anthony 22.6points - 6.3ast - .430FG% (pathetic)
***Chris Mullin, in his prime was a better shooting version of Scottie Pippen, without the athleticism. The man could flat out shoot....

Charles Barkley 23.1points - 11.1reb - 4.1ast - 1.8stl - .552FG%
VS.
Andre Igoudala 12.4points - 6.1reb - 5.5ast - 1.7stl
***LAUGHS AGAIN!!!!!

Magic Johnson - 19.4points - 7.0reb - 12.5ast
VS.
Chris Paul - 19.8points - 9.1ast - 2.5stl
***again no comment

Russell Westbrook - 23.6points - 4.6reb - 5.6ast - 1.7stl
VS.
Christean Laettner
***well finally this years team wins...


Jordan had it right on the money, basketball back then folks had a higher IQ. Today's game is full of individuals forcing shots and settling for 3pointers....1992 Dream Team would smash any other US Olympic team ever assembled. HANDS DOWN!!!!



did you just said ewing & blake is nice even match up? and has an 'edge' on defensive end? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


that's the funniest thing i've ever heard!!! blake couldn't do a damn thing about 50 year old tim duncan!!!!
ewing would make blake cry like a little baby! i mean we are talking about 29 year old ewing here!! what's going on in this board! ewing was a filthy animal!!

[Cali Syndicate]

MJ is wrong and he knows it. I would love to see these teams play a series against each other. Kobe and MJ would really be the best match up ever.

Prime Jordan vs 2012 Kobe? Best match up ever? MJ would murder Kobe.

[RaininTwos]

:oldlol: Thats your argument? Why don't you actually say what Kobe is better at instead of dismissing it as impossible, which it isn't.
Kobe is a better shooter, better off ball defender and just as good in one on one situations, plus his post game is all time nasty.

[Callystarr]

There is a gap between 29yr old MJ and 34yr old Kobe. Dream Team was full of cerebral players where the competition level was unreal. And documented. Todays players are more friendly with one another. Who complained about hard fouls on the Dream Team? I know some cried over D.Cousins hard fouling.

The size of the Dream Team trumps them so much. Come down the lane Bron.

Exactly!!!!!

Lebron isn't coming down the lane with Patrick and David in the lane at any given time.

[tpols]

Gotta side with MJ on this one but not necessarily based on pure talent and athleticism.

Players today are just mentally softer. Too many mental giants on that '92 squad.
This is just one of many responses in this thread solely going off the 'old man mentality'. It's like you cant beat your dad up even when you grow bigger than him..

except these are all grown men were talking about and aint nobody anybodys daddy.

[OldSchoolBBall]

You guys are complete morons. Jordans own teamates and coaches say Kobe is comparable/close to Jordan. Yet you act like Jordan is going against some D-Leaguer.

To be within 10% of Jordan in terms of impact prime vs. prime doesn't make you a D-Leaguer, it makes you one of the best players of all time. It just doesn't make you Jordan.

[tpols]

Kobe is a better shooter, better off ball defender and just as good in one on one situations, plus his post game is all time nasty.
Kobe is the better man defender, not help defender, and Kobe is better in the post and in pure 1v1 situations like you said.

[NumberSix]

I don't think the gap between Jordan/Kobe is as big as some believe. But at the same time, there is a gap. Kobe is a beast, 2nd best SG ever. But Jordan was the lead-dog for every team he played on in the NBA. Kobe was a sidekick for like 8 seasons.
People constantly overdue it to extremes.

Some act as if Jordan is a god and Kobe is just barely better than Joe Johnson. Others act as if Kobe is equal to MJ or just slightly under him.

The truth is, there is quite a gap, but not to some untouchable mythical degree.

If Jordan is a perfect 10, Kobe is like an 8.5 or a 9.

[BuffaloBill]

If it wasn't for Patrick Ewing and David Robinson, 2012 might have a chance.

[Linspired]

Kobe is a better shooter, better off ball defender and just as good in one on one situations, plus his post game is all time nasty.

:biggums:

you do know kobe shot .43%, right? 40 year old MJ shot .445%!!!!!

and i'm not even gonna comment on 'better off ball defender' nonsense.

1 on 1 situation? lol :coleman:


post game is all time nasty? that's it. i've heard enough!!

[RaininTwos]

To be fair, oftentimes actual blocked shots are just a small part of what makes having a Hall of Fame center in the middle so effective. Even from my lame basketball playing history of going against relatively unathletic 6'9'' guys, sometimes just having them there is enough to at least make a player think twice about both when they're going to choose to attack and how they're going to attack.

For instance, if Joel Anthony was waiting in the paint for Westbrook, I think a relentless attack would be at the forefront of Russell's mind. However, placing a 7'1'' Patrick Ewing or David Robinson back there (big men who actually had significant skills) would surely have to alter how Westbrook was going to attack. If he attempted to challenge those two just as he would a 6'9'' scrub, I feel as though his wild shot attempts would spike significantly. That's not to say he'd be shut down 100% of the time, but it's just not as simple as "Westbrook blow by Stockton, Westbrook dunk, get fouled, or get blocked". The big thing missing is, "Westbrook must pull up, change shot, retain dribble and escape elsewhere, or force bad shot into contact." Elite big man effects go well beyond block or foul.

It can't be both ways. You guys cant paint the picture of Westbrook being a me first, shoot everything, drive no matter what PG and then turn around and say that he'll be afraid of D-Rob and Ewing. This is basketball and he's an athletic freak, he isn't afraid of any big man. They will alter some shots but lets be real, they will also foul, get caught in between two guys with no help and maybe even embarrassed.

Westbrook has never been timid or not aggressive. His decision making is suspect at times, but that's about it. He will find people and can destroy a defense with his penetration.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Bolded= trolling. There is no way that Jordan is better in every facet of the damn game in comparison to Kobe.

Where did I say that? Kobe is a better 3 point shooter and has better isolation handles simply due to his generation's upbringing (i.e., Jordan would have similar handles if he was born in '79-'82), though Jordan had better functional handles in a game setting for various reason. That's about it for Kobe, yeah. Everything else is Jordan, in many cases by a significant margin (off the ball play, rebounding, and bball IQ in particular).

[Callystarr]

Westbrook, the most athletic PG ever, would do some unspeakable things to Magic and Stock.

You clearly didn't watch John Stockton in his prime...

1989-1992 The man led the league in assists and steals.....he had quickness, he played the passing lanes better than anyone in the NBA....

Against Westbrooks sloppy arse he would have averaged 10 steals a game....:lol

[RaininTwos]

Kobe is the better man defender, not help defender, and Kobe is better in the post and in pure 1v1 situations like you said.
off ball isnt help defense in my book. I meant like denying the ball from perimeter players and such.

[Callystarr]

Mr 4 fer 20 in game 5 against Chalmers is gonna light up Magic and Stockton?

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/sarcastic/grand/sarcastic-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-226.gif

I love that gif yo HAHAHAHAHA

[KG215]

Why are so many people doing the whole "comparing '92 Dream Team player to '12 player who he's most similar to or most likely to be matched up with"?

It doesn't work like that. Yes, at the end, if one team has the advantage in 7-8 of the 12 match-ups, then odds are they are goig to win, but not aways. The 1992 would win and is the better team for different reasons. They have more depth and versatility. Like rake said, they have Jordan, Pippen, Stockton, Malone, Ewing, D-Rob, Clyde, Barkley, and Mullin in the prime of HOF careers. The only players from the 2012 team that you can say are in the prime of a HOF career is LeBron, probably Durant (I guess he could suffer a career ending injury tomorrow and is HOF status would be in question), and maybe Paul. Kobe is a HOFer (obviously) but he's not in his prime and it's too soon to say with Love.

Oh, and quit using Larry Bird to back a '92 team argument. He could barely walk and barely played. If we're going to exclude injured guys like Wade and Howard from the 2012 team, and say Kobe is 34 and no longer in his prime, then there's no point in using Bird to make the '92 team look stronger. Sure, he'd be effective 5-10 minutes a game as a spot-up sniper but he'd be a major liability on defense unless you tried to hide him by playing zone.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Kobe is a student of the game and has learned a lot of from MJ, but he's also made some things on his own as well. I don't understand how you can look at the two players and think in a head to head matchup, both in their primes, Kobe is 10% away from Jordan. That's the very definition of trolling.

No, it isn't - it's called reality. Do yourself a favor and watch some '90-'92 Jordan and say with a straight face that Kobe's ever been within 10% in terms of impact on games. 90% of Jordan is nearly prime Magic/Bird level, but Kobe is slightly below them - being 90% of Jordan doesn't make you some scrub. It makes you one of the 10-15 best players of all time at a minimum.

[RaininTwos]

No, it isn't - it's called reality. Do yourself a favor and watch some '90-'92 Jordan and say with a straight face that Kobe's ever been within 10% in terms of impact on games. 90% of Jordan is nearly prime Magic/Bird level, but Kobe is slightly below them - being 90% of Jordan doesn't make you some scrub. It makes you one of the 10-15 best players of all time at a minimum.
:biggums:

[OldSchoolBBall]

lol @ Kobe being a better off ball defender and post player than Jordan. Now I've heard everything. :oldlol: ****ing kids...

[Cali Syndicate]

CT: Ewing/ Robinson/ Laettner
PF: Barkley/ Malone
SF: Pippen/ Bird/ Mullin
SG: Jordan/ Drexler
PG: Johnson/ Stockton

CT: Chandler/ Love
PF: James/ Iguodala/ Griffin
SF: Durant/ Anthony
SG: Bryant/ Harden
PG: Paul/ Williams/ Westbrook

First thing that comes to mind is that absolutely no one on the current team can guard Charles Barkley. He's going to score almost every time he touches the ball. He shot 71% from the field. That's right, 71%. Jordan could make life difficult for anyone in the 2012 team's backcourt. Pippen and Malone could guard LeBron on different areas of the court, and when the 2012 tries LeBron and center, D-Rob would have been fast enough to keep up with him.

The only weakness for the Dream Team was point guard, due to Stockton being injured, and Magic being slower. Pippen played a lot of point guard though, and excelled. Frankly, if Stockton is healthy, he and Pippen would ruin Paul, Williams and Westbrook.

This.

[tpols]

:biggums:
I know right.:oldlol:

Magic had more impact on 5v5 basketball games than Jordan could ever dream of.

[BurrowsTheGreat]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[KG215]

Kobe is a better shooter, better off ball defender and just as good in one on one situations, plus his post game is all time nasty.

So you either weren't alive, in a coma, or didn't watch the NBA in the mid to late 90's. Second 3-peat Jordan was a beast in the post.

[RaininTwos]

So you either weren't alive, in a coma, or didn't watch the NBA in the mid to late 90's. Second 3-peat Jordan was a beast in the post.
Now please refer me to where I said Jordan was garbage in the post.

Talking on the internet is disjointed for some reason.

It's clear at that point I was just pointing out how great Kobe's post game is. Keep assuming that I'm ignorant though.

[Callystarr]

Who shuts down Deron, the guy who shot 40.7% this year? :oldlol:


LMAOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

[tontoz]

He finds cutting big men on the regular for OKC, but now that he's playing with better big men he wont?

With the way you guys talk about him, I wonder how he gets assists.



He gets only 5.5 assists in 35 minutes and that is with the NBA's leading scorer on his team. :lol

[juju151111]

Kobe is a better shooter, better off ball defender and just as good in one on one situations, plus his post game is all time nasty.
Better off ball defender? Wtf where are u getting this shit from

[RaininTwos]

He gets only 5.5 assists in 35 minutes and that is with the NBA's leading scorer on his team. :lol
Now we are using assists to say that Westbrook can't pass to cutting big men.

Wow, I'm done here.

[Callystarr]

did you just said ewing & blake is nice even match up? and has an 'edge' on defensive end? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


that's the funniest thing i've ever heard!!! blake couldn't do a damn thing about 50 year old tim duncan!!!!
ewing would make blake cry like a little baby! i mean we are talking about 29 year old ewing here!! what's going on in this board! ewing was a filthy animal!!

Dude did you read??? I said Ewing has the edge on the defensive end...

[RaininTwos]

Better off ball defender? Wtf where are u getting this shit from
You right, I'm crazy. Jordan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kobe.

Boring.

[Callystarr]

He gets only 5.5 assists in 35 minutes and that is with the NBA's leading scorer on his team. :lol

I know Point Guards that have come off the bench and gotten more assists than that :rolleyes:

[juju151111]

You right, I'm crazy. Jordan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kobe.

Boring.
I never said that he was that much better. I said where u got that Kobe is a better offbsll defender.

[TheMan]

Whole article from AP:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jnqI0mWVmLpGfg-58_R1V1VkHAGQ?docId=e4b4e851e72d44c99cbe84ef7b3ce7 d2



Would you say the bolded words from the last paragraph is a subtle shot at Kobe?
Kobe saying the Original Dream Team was not athletic has to be one of the dumbest things ever said...how is Jordan, Pippen, Drexler, Robinson, Barkley running the fast break not athletic?

If Team USA didn't have that retarded option of giving Laettner the 12 spot and instead included Shaq as a rookie, that team would be even more untouchable

[tontoz]

Now please refer me to where I said Jordan was garbage in the post.

Talking on the internet is disjointed for some reason.

It's clear at that point I was just pointing out how great Kobe's post game is. Keep assuming that I'm ignorant though.




If Kobe's post game is so great then why did he take 14 shots per game from 16+ feet this season?

[Callystarr]

Now we are using assists to say that Westbrook can't pass to cutting big men.

Wow, I'm done here.

You seen his assist to turnover ratio? That has got to be the highest in history......

That entire Dream Team....would have a flipping field day with the turnovers from the sloppy "new style" game of the 2000's.....Russell Westbrook would be benched...for his turnovers...

John Stockton 1st all time
Michael Jordan 3rd all time
Scottie Pippen 6th all time
Clyde Drexler 7th all time
Karl Malone 10th all time
Magic Johnson 15th all time
Charles Barkley 20th all time

[eliteballer]

If Kobe's post game is so great then why did he take 14 shots per game from 16+ feet this season?

Because he had Bynum and Gasol clogging the paint.

Kobe didnt say the 92 team wasn't athletic, he said some of the key guys were a little older.

[guy]

Kobe is a better shooter, better off ball defender and just as good in one on one situations, plus his post game is all time nasty.

Better shooter, yes. But better off ball defender and post game (which I'm assuming you are implying since you mentioned it. And just cause he's all-time great doesn't mean he's better)? No, and its truly spoken as someone that must've never watched them both play. No one that has watched both has ever made that claim :oldlol:

Do yourself a favor and stop trying to argue about a comparison you know little about.

[lakers_forever]

I seriously laugh at people who act like Magic was finished. He led the Lakers to the NBA finals the year before the olympics, while averaging 19.4 points, 12.5 assists, and 7.0 rebounds per game (he did not become a scrub in one year because of HIV). Even a fat Magic, years without playing pro ball, averaged 14.6, 5.7 and 6.9 in 96.

Magic Johnson in 91 (he became crap one year later? nah) was a better point guard than Chris Paul ever was.

And Larry Bird, even with a broken back, was still a great player. He averaged 20.2 ppg, 9.6 rpg and 6.8 apg in the 92 season (with 46% fg, 40%3 and 92%ft). I'd take that broken Bird over guys like Anthony, Iguodala and Harden.

You can talk about their lack of defensive ability by then, but for that, you had guys like Pippen.

This current team is not even better than the 08 team who had prime Kobe, Lebron, Wade and a real great center in Dwight Howard.


92 > 96 > 2008 > this team

[TheNaturalWR]

Am I the only one who believes that the Redeem Team > 12' Team? The comparison should be Redeem Team vs Dream Team.

[DonDadda59]

Because he had Bynum and Gasol clogging the paint.

Kobe didnt say the 92 team wasn't athletic, he said some of the key guys were a little older.

Which is ironic considering he's 33 going on 34 with shot knees and just put up his worst shooting percentages since he was a teenager.

The only player on the '12 team the dream team would be worried about is Lebron, and possibly KD in terms of matchups. Tyson Chandler is a solid defender, but he gets herbed by Robinson and Ewing.

[Callystarr]

Am I the only one who believes that the Redeem Team > 12' Team? The comparison should be Redeem Team vs Dream Team.

agreed

[KG215]

Patrick Ewing 24.0points - 11.2reb - 1.0stl, 3.0blk, .522FG%
VS.
Blake Griffin 20.7points - 10.9reb - 3.2ast, .549FG%
***Pretty nice even matchup, Patrick had the edge on the defensive end.

Larry Bird 20.2points - 9.6reb - 6.8ast - .406/3PT
VS.
Lebron James 27.1points - 7.9reb - 6.2ast - 1.9stl - .531FG%
***This is actually a good matchup up of individuals who can work both ends of the floor. Larry the better shooter, and puts up equally impressive overall stats. What is crazy, is Larry put those stats up in his FINAL year in the NBA. I doubt that many players will be able to put up stats like that after 12 plus years...



While some of your match-ups aren't as close or closer than you think, these two stuck out the most.

Nice even match-up between Griffin and Ewing? Really? Prime Patrick Ewing and second year Blake Griffin is a nice even match-up? Just because they have similar stats doesn't make it an even match-up. This particular hypothetical match-up is one of the easiest ones on your list to say "hands down advantage to the '92 team."

And past his prime on his way out of the league Magic makes you "no comment" when compared to prime CP3, but 35 year old, back injured so bad he can barely walk and barely play Larry Bird, is actually a "good match-up" compared to prime LeBron? On what planet?

[Heavincent]

Which is ironic considering he's 33 going on 34 with shot knees and just put up his worst shooting percentages since he was a teenager.


And was still one of the best players in the league.

[KG215]

Dude did you read??? I said Ewing has the edge on the defensive end...

He has a huge edge on the offensive end, too.

[Rake2204]

It can't be both ways. You guys cant paint the picture of Westbrook being a me first, shoot everything, drive no matter what PG and then turn around and say that he'll be afraid of D-Rob and Ewing. This is basketball and he's an athletic freak, he isn't afraid of any big man. They will alter some shots but lets be real, they will also foul, get caught in between two guys with no help and maybe even embarrassed.

Westbrook has never been timid or not aggressive. His decision making is suspect at times, but that's about it. He will find people and can destroy a defense with his penetration.
Oh I like Russell Westbrook as a player. I haven't bought into the me-first assumptions about him I always see going around. Debating on that front would be a separate matter to me. I think he's a killer and when his jump shot was falling, we all saw how ugly it could get for his opponents.

However, I also feel the entire '92 Dream Team was comprised of killers, with David Robinson and Patrick Ewing as two historically awesome defensive killers. I don't think Westbrook would have been scared. I'm just saying my belief is he would not have carved up the paint as effectively as we saw in his Finals performance against the Heat. I'm saying yes, blocks happen, scores happen, facials happen, charges happen, and fouls happen, but a flat out disturbance of flow and the manner with which a player is able to attack (or not attack) is not to be underestimated. And I feel an international team playing under international rules featuring prime version of David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, Scottie Pippen, and Michael Jordan would likely have an adverse effect on Westbrook's attacking skills, regardless of how fearless he'd be. It'd certainly not be as simple as Westbrook just walking past his perimeter defender, getting a run up deep into the lane, hitting a late recovering David Robinson in the chest then drawing a foul or scoring.

[KG215]

Am I the only one who believes that the Redeem Team > 12' Team? The comparison should be Redeem Team vs Dream Team.

No, and I'm pretty sure there's been Redeem Team vs. Dream Team debates on here before, and I thought the 2008 team was better than this team, too. Now, if 2012 had a healthy Wade, Howard, and Rose in place of Harden, Griffin, and Iggy, I'd take the 2012 team. But, as is, it's Redeem Team all the way.

And besides, the 1996 team may have been better than both '08 and '12.

[Callystarr]

While some of your match-ups aren't as close or closer than you think, these two stuck out the most.

Nice even match-up between Griffin and Ewing? Really? Prime Patrick Ewing and second year Blake Griffin is a nice even match-up? Just because they have similar stats doesn't make it an even match-up. This particular hypothetical match-up is one of the easiest ones on your list to say "hands down advantage to the '92 team."

And past his prime on his way out of the league Magic makes you "no comment" when compared to prime CP3, but 35 year old, back injured so bad he can barely walk and barely play Larry Bird, is actually a "good match-up" compared to prime LeBron? On what planet?

Man I was thinking of if all were healthy, hell they saying Blake is injured now...LOL

Y'all don't seem to look at the intangibles...with the exception of Durant, Chandler, and Bron...these folks can't even find the basket 50% of the time...

Athleticism isn't going to get you anywhere...

These players were so much smarter back then, they played better team ball, and unselfish...and DEFENSE..which is a terminology that seems the have fallen by the wayside.

Settling for all those 3point shots, when you can shoot over 40%, you aren't going to even hurt the 92 dream team.

Several "horrible" shooters....Bryant, Williams, Anthony....these guys shoot a very low percentage. Add Robinson/Ewing into the mix clogging up that middle thats only going to make that number go down!

You have to make baskets...and those players that played back then, with the exception of Pippen/Drexler...they ALL shot a high percentage!

[DonDadda59]

And was still one of the best players in the league.

Even if that's true, he's still clearly past his physical prime so it's odd that he would mention guys like Magic and Bird being past their athletic peaks. This version of Kobe gets absolutely harassed by a 29 year old prime Jordan.

[Linspired]

can't discuss basketball with dudes who are born in early 90's. seriously.

40 year old MJ was top 5-6 SG in 2003 while shooting better .445% which is an unbelievable for a guy with 1 good knee.

and i laugh at how some of you try to disrespect some of dream team players.

stockton? let's not act like he was bob cousey running around short shorts with 1 hand dribbles. stockton was a nasty little dude. a perfect floor general with a brain.

magic? he has plenty of toys to work with, so he doesn't have to be all that athletic. there is no stopping his perfectly placed no look bounce pass even if magic was 40. and go watch the 1992 dream team footage. magic was in shape, and he looked great. let's not act like he was a walking zombie because he wasn't.

laettner? well he won't play much if not at all. but in his rookie season he avg 18.2/8.7/2.8/1.3 blocks. that's not bad. that was actually his best season. he peaked too early. he would hold his own against blake/love. but again, he won't be seeing any playing time.

clyde? how do we forget how great clyde was? i mean are you guys serious? some of you talk like clyde is some sort of a scrub. clyde was filthy dude. he was an mvp contender.

mullin? mullin would be dream team's version of ray ray/rip hamilton. you need a guy who can stroke the ball. he will certainly kill you if you leave him open. to me mullin is an x-factor. 12 team doesn't have designated shooter.
instead of having guys like iggy, 12 team needed a lethal shooter.

bird? yes he is old and etc. first he won't play much for sure. he would be limited to about 15-20 min at most. but when he is on the court his charisma, brain will take over. you can't teach top 2 basketball IQ of all time.


and barkley is dead wrong. kobe wouldn't make this 92 dream team. he is too old. why would you pick 34 year old a really awful diet coke version of MJ, when you already have prime MJ himself? there is no point picking kobe because he would just be a cancer, like isiah thomas.

durant is also debatable. drexler is better defender, and much better rebounder. durant hasn't entered his prime yet, and we've just witnessed that he isn't ready for the big stage yet. durant is better scorer than clyde, but 92 team already has the greatest scorer of all time. drexler brings better overall versatility.

only bron is worth a spot in 1992.

[Callystarr]

He has a huge edge on the offensive end, too.

I'm sure too, but I was point out obvious...but that was probably the closest matchup on paper....that could even exist...because Blake/Chandler definitely not coming close to DRobinson

[tontoz]

Because he had Bynum and Gasol clogging the paint.

Kobe didnt say the 92 team wasn't athletic, he said some of the key guys were a little older.



So who other than Magic and Bird were as old as Kobe?

[lakers_forever]

And besides, the 1996 team may have been better than both '08 and '12.


As I said in my post:

92 > 96 > 08 > 12

Look at the 1996 roster (this team had it all):

Centers: Shaq, Olajuwon and Robinson (who's stopping that?)
PF's: Malone and Barkley (all time great PF's)
SF's Pippen and Hill (great unselfish playmakers)
SG's: Reggie Miller and Mitch Richmond (shooters who won't ballhog)
PG's: Payton / Penny / Stockton (a defensive monster, a great around athlete and a prototype PG).

[Callystarr]

Too many people slept on Stockton, because they didn't start really seeing him until the Jazz made the finals when he was in his late 30's...

:lol

That man has taken Michael Jordan to the hole several times, and his steals numbers gives you a nice idea of how good his defense really was when he was not slowed, and exposed by players like Gary Payton.....

[Callystarr]

So who other than Magic and Bird were as old as Kobe?

No one.....

these are exact but...really I see that team as being very well seasoned....

Magic, Bird 12 years
Robinson, 3 years
Stockton, Drexler, Jordan, Barkley 7 years
Malone, Ewing, Mullin 6 years
Pippen 5 years


How old is the 2012 team????

[guy]

By the way, with Lebron/Kobe/Melo/Durant/Harden/Westbrook all on the same team and with no great offensive big man, I see this as a supercharged version of the current Heat and Thunder as far as playing style goes where they have those problems where they play one on one way too much doing that "your turn, my turn" and the others are standing around (which isn't as much of a problem when they are the most talented teams in the league, but not when they go up against a team like the Dream Team.) Dream Team are much more balanced.

[code green]

He's the biggest Kobe D1ckrider in this forum. A 29 yrs.old Jordan will abuse 34 yrs.old Kobe.

pot, kettle
kettle, pot

[KG215]

I'm sure too, but I was point out obvious...but that was probably the closest matchup on paper....that could even exist...because Blake/Chandler definitely not coming close to DRobinson

I'm still not sure that's the closest match-up on paper. 1992 prime Ewing was pretty close to even with D-Rob. Both would shit all over 2012 Blake Griffin on both ends of the floor.

I'm trying to think, and probably the closest match-up on paper would be Durant vs. Mullin because that was prime Mullin vs. 23 year old Durant just entering his prime.

[Sarcastic]

Funny thing is Magic Johnson in 1992 was younger than Kobe in 2012. He wasn't past prime really at all. In 1991 he put up 19/12 and led his team to the Finals. I'm pretty sure the HIV was in his system at the time as well, so you can't say him having the virus would make him worse in 1992. The only reason he stopped playing was for safety and fear from the league, and not because of a decline in play.


Bird is the only one you can say was past prime because of his back.

[Cali Syndicate]

I seriously laugh at people who act like Magic was finished. He led the Lakers to the NBA finals the year before the olympics, while averaging 19.4 points, 12.5 assists, and 7.0 rebounds per game (he did not become a scrub in one year because of HIV). Even a fat Magic, years without playing pro ball, averaged 14.6, 5.7 and 6.9 in 96.

Magic Johnson in 91 (he became crap one year later? nah) was a better point guard than Chris Paul ever was.

And Larry Bird, even with a broken back, was still a great player. He averaged 20.2 ppg, 9.6 rpg and 6.8 apg in the 92 season (with 46% fg, 40%3 and 92%ft). I'd take that broken Bird over guys like Anthony, Iguodala and Harden.

Magic was forced to retire after that 91' season so actually he was one full season removed from the game prior to the 92 Olympics which could have thrown his game off a tad, but only a tad. But I agree with everything you stated about him, spot on.

As for Bird, he was still a magical player in his own right but he lost a lot with his ailing back. He was able to play through it at times during the season because Bird was a competitor and tough as nails. But taking a broken Bird over those guys? IDK man...... (2seconds later) yeah, I probably would too but if only just for one season.

Shame both their careers prematurely ended the way they did.

[Poetry]

can't discuss basketball with dudes who are born in early 90's. seriously.

It's very difficult. It's like discussing film, painting, architecture or music with someone who has a very limited background in the field.

It's like a college professor arguing with an uninformed student. Or like a war veteran arguing with a young soldier.

With basketball, unless you go back to watch hundreds of games, "you really had to be there."

Some opinions, by nature, are more valid than others.

[guy]

Another thing, I hear people saying this team doesn't include players like Dwight Howard, Dwyane Wade, Derrick Rose, etc. Well, people are ignoring that the Dream Team didn't include Hakeem Olajuwon, Isiah Thomas, Dominique Wilkins, etc.

[TheMan]

Am I the only one who recalls LeBron and Wade being hesitant to attack the rim whenever old hobbled Garnett was in the game in the past Celtics/Heat series?

What makes you think they'll have better luck vs prime DRob and Ewing on the floor at the same time?:facepalm

The 92 team had enough horses to run a fastbreak (Jordan, Pippen, Drexler, Robinson) and the bigs to crush the 12 in the offensive low post game/rebounds (Barkley, Malone, Robinson, Ewing).

The 92 Dream Team's FC is the difference in my opinion.

PG Jordan
SG Drexler
SF Pippen
PF Robinson
C Ewing

Try to take it to the rim on that line up and watch your shot attempts turn into fastbreaks going the other way.

[Deuce Bigalow]

What is Kobe supposed to say?
"I have no confidence and we will lose to the Dream team" ?

:facepalm

[Mr Exlax]

What is Kobe supposed to say?
"I have no confidence and we will lose to the Dream team" ?

:facepalm

I'm on the phone with my cousin right now trying to argue this freaking point to him! They're professional athletes! What is he supposed to freaking say!!!!!!

[rhythmic]

Another thing, I hear people saying this team doesn't include players like Dwight Howard, Dwyane Wade, Derrick Rose, etc. Well, people are ignoring that the Dream Team didn't include Hakeem Olajuwon, Isiah Thomas, Dominique Wilkins, etc.

I'm so sick of people who try to compare era's.
My uncle (59 year old), biggest Knicks fan I know always tells me.

Take Kobe, LeBron, Durant and literally inflate their stats 10-15% and you will find out their statistics in the 80's/early 90's. Take their stats and inflate them by 20-25% to get an idea of how they'd do in 60's/70's. Now why does he say that?

BECAUSE THE GAME AND PLAYERS HAVE EVOLUTIONIZED.
The guy is a student of the game since the mid 60's, he has watched all the greats play for most part. He still says Bill Russell was the greatest ever. He says that because he compares each player relative to their era. It is absolutely foolish to compare players from different era's, because a lot elements change over time. Rules, league parity, condensement of talent, global recognition, physical preparation and even diet.

I tend to agree. How many players in the 80's had insane numbers? How many players shot 50% back in the day? People who say the talent was better back in the day simply are using a cop-out to elevate players like Bird, Jordan etc. to higher levels. It is completely pointless to compare stats across era's, the variables are NOT the same.

Just for curiousity sake, my uncle believes these are the top 5 players of All-Time:

1) Russell
2) Chamberlain
3) Magic Johnson
4) Jordan
5) Kareem Abdul Jabbar

He also says that James is the most impressive athletic basketball player besides Wilt Chamberlain he has ever seen.

My point is, it is very subjective to compare players from different era's so just compare them to players within their own time horizone; who had similar environments and competition around them which includes basketball rules. :cheers:

[Mr Exlax]

Oh and one more thing. Michael Jordan is the last person to try and evaluate any kind of talent or another player's ability. Let's be for real. Michael Jordan basically said Adam Morrison was better than Brandon Roy and Rudy Gay. This is the same man that basically said Kwame Brown was better than Gilbert Arenas, Pau Gasol, Tyson Chandler and freaking Joe Johnson! Cmon son. How you gonna listen to him. The only thing he can say is who he's better than. That's about it.

[Indian guy]

Another thing, I hear people saying this team doesn't include players like Dwight Howard, Dwyane Wade, Derrick Rose, etc. Well, people are ignoring that the Dream Team didn't include Hakeem Olajuwon, Isiah Thomas, Dominique Wilkins, etc.

Huh? Olajuwon wasn't a US citizen yet, and neither Isiah nor 'Nique were better than the players chosen over them by '92.

[Clyde]

The only thing you cant compare is the skill level of the euro teams back then vs. now.

[TheMan]

What is Kobe supposed to say?
"I have no confidence and we will lose to the Dream team" ?

:facepalm
Well, he could've said that a game between those two squads would be a hell of a game and you really can't say for sure who'd win.

instead he gives his reasons as to why the 12 team would win and Barkley and Jordan respond with their opinions as to why they think the 92 team would win.

[tontoz]

I'm on the phone with my cousin right now trying to argue this freaking point to him! They're professional athletes! What is he supposed to freaking say!!!!!!


Your cousin must think you are an idiot. The correct answer is pretty simple.

"I don't know"

[tontoz]

Another thing, I hear people saying this team doesn't include players like Dwight Howard, Dwyane Wade, Derrick Rose, etc.


Seriously if they don't play then they don't count.

Dream Team could have easily picked Shaq instead of Laettner. I don't see anyone talking about Shaq as if he was actually on the team.

[guy]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[Shepseskaf]

Smh at the young-uns who think that the '12 team wouldn't get slaughtered.

[Mr Exlax]

Your cousin must think you are an idiot. The correct answer is pretty simple.

"I don't know"

No no no. He's saying Kobe is stupid for thinking it and just because Michael Jordan says there's no comparison then he's right. I asked him why would he listen to Michael Jordan's evaluation of talent based on the players he passed up and the players he actually drafted. Follow me?

[Mr Exlax]

Smh at the young-uns who think that the '12 team wouldn't get slaughtered.


I'm 30 and I don't see how the 2012 team would get "slaughtered". Like where do you see that many advantages that they would get "slaughtered"?

[guy]

Huh? Olajuwon wasn't a US citizen yet, and neither Isiah nor 'Nique were better than the players chosen over them by '92.

You're right about Hakeem. But it seems like some people are making this more of an argument about era vs. era though, so I thought I'd mention it. If thats not the argument, then people should just stick to what the teams actually were.

They were both clearly better then Laettner. Nique was probably better then Bird in the state he was in. Magic had not played in over a year. And I forgot to mention what it would've been like if they put in Shaq over Laettner.

[DirtySanchez]

You guys all know this argument can never ever be proven right?

There is no time machine invented just yet.

[tontoz]

No no no. He's saying Kobe is stupid for thinking it and just because Michael Jordan says there's no comparison then he's right. I asked him why would he listen to Michael Jordan's evaluation of talent based on the players he passed up and the players he actually drafted. Follow me?


I guess you really are an idiot because this response has no relevance to your original post.



Originally Posted by Mr Exlax
I'm on the phone with my cousin right now trying to argue this freaking point to him! They're professional athletes! What is he supposed to freaking say!!!!!!

[Mr Exlax]

You guys all know this argument can never ever be proven right?

There is no time machine invented just yet.

It's just so much fun to try to force your will and way of thinking on someone else. The cool thing about ISH is that everybody's so immature so if they disagree with you then you can just call them names or put up those stupid little faces lol.

[Smoke117]

Kobe=MJ
Lebron>Barkley
Magic>Westbrook
Durant>Pippen
Robinson>Tyson

(anyone bringing up Bird never watched the olympics....dude was hurt and was barely able to play more then 10 minutes per)

12' Bench>92'

Drexler was basically a worse version of Danny Granger and wouldn't even make the squad in modern times....Ewing didn't even have more moves the Yao Ming...


12' is the better overall squad.



Wtf? Alphawolf you get god damn stupider and stupider every single day. Kobe=Jordan? How the hell does Kobe at 33 coming off his 16 season with all those games played, various injuries built up = a 29 year old Jordan coming off his 8th season. Kobe isn't even as good as a 97 when he was 33 or a 98 Jordan when he was 34 right now, yet somehow in your stupid god damn brain they equal eachother out?

Also, I may have always felt Drexler was overrated but to call him a worse version of Danny Granger? WTF!? The Dream Team absolutely destroys the 2012 team as far as defense goes at that. And why are people even talking about athleticism? Jordan, Drexler, Pippen, Barkley, and Robinson are some of the most athletic players EVER at their respective positions.

[Mr Exlax]

I guess you really are an idiot because this response has no relevance to your original post.

I'll be that because I didn't understand what point you were trying to make when you quoted me the first time. My cousin doesn't think I'm an idiot, but he does think I'm mistaken for thinking that Kobe said the right thing.

[tontoz]

I'm 30 and I don't see how the 2012 team would get "slaughtered". Like where do you see that many advantages that they would get "slaughtered"?


LOL

DRob/Ewing against Chandler and who?

Malone/Barkley against Bosh and ?



Total mismatches

[tontoz]

I'll be that because I didn't understand what point you were trying to make when you quoted me the first time. My cousin doesn't think I'm an idiot, but he does think I'm mistaken for thinking that Kobe said the right thing.


Did you even read your original post?

You said what is Kobe supposed to say to that question? The answer is to simply say i don't know. It isn't complex.

[DirtySanchez]

It's just so much fun to try to force your will and way of thinking on someone else. The cool thing about ISH is that everybody's so immature so if they disagree with you then you can just call them names or put up those stupid little faces lol.

Ha true...

I just love how everybody acts like their opinions are fact.

My opinion on this...I have no clue who would win. I am a product of the 80's and 90's so of course I'm bias to those guys. But to say our current team would have no chance is just nonsense.

[Mr Exlax]

LOL

DRob/Ewing against Chandler and who?

Malone/Barkley against Bosh and ?



Total mismatches

I don't know if DRob & Ewing are just gonna score with the greatest of ease against Chandler. Chandler won't get shut down by them because most of his points are gonna come from the rebounds and dump off passes for easy dunks anyway.

Malone and Barkley both are gonna buttrape Bosh on offense, but how are they going to stop him on defense? They're both too short and slower than him.

So that's enough to slaughter them? Who's gonna stop Lebron? Pippen? Pippen is weaker, shorter, lighter, slower than Lebron. Jordan will eat Kobe because it's the old Kobe, it's a toss up at the PG position to me. I'll give it to 2012 because the players are bigger, stronger and faster. Oh and they have DWill.

[Shepseskaf]

I'm 30 and I don't see how the 2012 team would get "slaughtered". Like where do you see that many advantages that they would get "slaughtered"?
Its embarrassing to actually have to discuss this. Just look at the frontcourts and that should give you all the answers you need.

There isn't a single area where the '12 team is vastly superior than the '92 team, but plenty going the other way.

Sorry, but MJ is right, there is no comparison.

As a backdrop, I've recently wanted several of the '08 team's games, and all eight of the Dream Team games. When the '92 team got revved up, they would slaughter any team in the history of the game.

its just that simple.

[TheMan]

I'm 30 and I don't see how the 2012 team would get "slaughtered". Like where do you see that many advantages that they would get "slaughtered"?
Front Court

Basketball is still a big man's game, it's become smaller because of the dearth in the C position in today's NBA but back then the 92 team had prime Robinson and Ewing, who you gonna put on them?LBJ or KLove:oldlol:

The low post scoring game is also becoming a lost art and the 92 team has some of the greatest low post players ever, those tend to be easy buckets.

12 team has horses who can get out there but let's not pretend MJ, Pip, Clyde and the Admiral couldn't run. The '92 team's FC is their advantage and it's big one.

[Legends66NBA7]

Some good debates on here, but really... 1996 Team should be talked about more vs 1992 Team.

I don't think this team is better than the 2008 Redeem Team either.

There's a lot overrating and underrating on both sides as well.


Yeah because Jordan isn't probably the single most overrated player of All-Time.

Karl Malone says hi.


You're the only one who watched this video and actually understood Kobe's comments. He was asked a question, and everybody's making it seem like he came out of the blue dissing the dream team. Is it a bad thing to say that they'd have a CHANCE to win?

I think it's because he answered some of those questions wrong about the dream team. The age and athletic ability, etc... It's cool, I'm assuming Kobe didn't google search all that data, considering most real NBA players don't have time for that stuff.


Am I the only one who believes that the Redeem Team > 12' Team? The comparison should be Redeem Team vs Dream Team.

Right on.

But really, it should also be vs the 96 Team.

96 Team vs 08 Redeem Team and 96 Team vs 12 Team ? Who you got in 7 ?


Smh at the young-uns who think that the '12 team wouldn't get slaughtered.

It would certinally be competitive. It would at least go 6 games in a 7 game series.


Huh? Olajuwon wasn't a US citizen yet, and neither Isiah nor 'Nique were better than the players chosen over them by '92.

I can understand Zeke because there was a lot of hate on him from the other players, but you can argue Wilkins over Mullin, yes ? And hell, over Bird's bad back, but I can see the reason why they took Bird over him.


DRob/Ewing against Chandler and who?

Malone/Barkley against Bosh and ?



Total mismatches

Yeah, but I also think they would be mismatches from the guard and SF play too.

Ultimately, Dream Team wins, but I don't it would be THAT much of a beating.

[Mr Exlax]

I just don't see them getting "slaughtered". I see the frontcourt domination, but you guys are talking like Chandler isn't a defensive force. Remember, they don't need him to score. JUST PLAY DEFENSE. He's gonna go balls to the wall strictly on defense.

[Legends66NBA7]

There isn't a single area where the '12 team is vastly superior than the '92 team, but plenty going the other way.

What about the SF spot ? They have a vastly superior advantage there, IMO.


When the '92 team got revved up, they would slaughter any team in the history of the game.

its just that simple.

They probably would win against any assembled team, but I don't see THAT much of a "slaughter".

It would be competitive for a while, until they figured out how to beat this current team.

And I definitely don't see the 92 team "slaughtering" the 96 team or 08 team that easily either. Infact, in a 7 game series, I see them going 7 games for both.

[Noob Saibot]

Lol. First Barkley now Jordan clowns Kobe's statements on winning a basketball game against the 1992 squad. Playing against a Michael Jordan team, you should be worried, VERY worried.

[TheMan]

I don't know if DRob & Ewing are just gonna score with the greatest of ease against Chandler. Chandler won't get shut down by them because most of his points are gonna come from the rebounds and dump off passes for easy dunks anyway.

Malone and Barkley both are gonna buttrape Bosh on offense, but how are they going to stop him on defense? They're both too short and slower than him.

So that's enough to slaughter them? Who's gonna stop Lebron? Pippen? Pippen is weaker, shorter, lighter, slower than Lebron. Jordan will eat Kobe because it's the old Kobe, it's a toss up at the PG position to me. I'll give it to 2012 because the players are bigger, stronger and faster. Oh and they have DWill.
No one can stop a great player from getting his.but Pippen is considered if not the greatest certainly among the GOAT wing defenders, he has the foot spedd to stay in front of LBJ, he would give LeBron enough space to try and entice him to shoot instead of drive and Pippen could try and funnel LBJ to the help defense. Come on homie, if Marion can limit LBJ, you don't think a far superior defender like Pippen can have some success?:lol

[lilgodfather1]

Lol. First Barkley now Jordan clowns Kobe's statements on winning a basketball game against the 1992 squad. Playing against a Michael Jordan team, you should be worried, VERY worried.
Yeah I mean he never lost in the first round of the playoffs multiple times.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

the only area where 2012 team would surpass is overall team speed.

[tontoz]

I don't know if DRob & Ewing are just gonna score with the greatest of ease against Chandler. Chandler won't get shut down by them because most of his points are gonna come from the rebounds and dump off passes for easy dunks anyway.



LOL the reason Chandler gets easy dunks is because centers suck now.

Chandler doesn't even have to worry about man d very often he just has to play good help D. He never faces anyone like Ewing or DRob.


So that's enough to slaughter them? Who's gonna stop Lebron? Pippen? Pippen is weaker, shorter, lighter, slower than Lebron.


So why didn't Lebron dominate a past his prime Marion in last years Finals? Pippen is one of, if not the, best defenders at the 3 spot ever.


I'll give it to 2012 because the players are bigger, stronger and faster. Oh and they have DWill.

:oldlol:


Please point out a pg today who is bigger and stronger than Magic. Centers today are lame compared to the centers back then. There is no way Al Horford sniffs an All-Star game at center back in the early 90s.

I am sure the Dream Team would be terrified to face DWill and his 40.7% shooting.

[Shepseskaf]

What about the SF spot ? They have a vastly superior advantage there, IMO.
Yes, LBJ would be the most talented player on the floor at that position, but I don't see that as any great advantage. As we saw this year, LeBron is most effective when he takes the ball to the basket consistently. With the likes of Ewing and DRob controlling the lane, that isn't happening.

Plus, they'd stick Pippin on him. I'd love to see that matchup.


They probably would win against any assembled team, but I don't see THAT much of a "slaughter".

It would be competitive for a while, until they figured out how to beat this current team.

And I definitely don't see the 92 team "slaughtering" the 96 team or 08 team that easily either. Infact, in a 7 game series, I see them going 7 games for both.
All I can tell you is to get your hands on some of the '92 team games, and everything will become very clear.

[DirtySanchez]

Yeah I mean he never lost in the first round of the playoffs multiple times.


Shots fired! Shots fired!!! :roll:

[Mr Exlax]

Fellas you're all making great points, but there's no way to change my opinion. I just can't grasp a slaughter by either one of these teams. For the record, Pippen has been my all time favorite NBA player and I don't see him being able to stop Lebron James. Slow him down? Maybe and that's a big maybe. Lebron's shortcomings against Dallas were not due to Shawn Marion to me, but he was so damn confused. I liked the interview with Mark Cuban explaining their defensive scheme against him. It made perfect sense.

[TheMan]

the only area where 2012 team would surpass is overall team speed.
Speed is nice but not everything or else DRose and Westbrook would be GOAT candidates and Larry Bird a scrub.:cheers: