Wait, where are all the anti-war anti-deficit anti-surveillance bush haters?

[Akrazotile]

Remember, when the country was ringing up a deficit, occupying the middle east, spying on its own citizens, the left used that as its battle cry to get the big meanie republican out of office and replace him with the noble, compassionate, populist democrat.

Come to find out, the issue the left cares the absolute most about, more than recessions and depressions, bloody wars and enormous debts, authoritarian power and personal intrusion... is gays in the military, gays being married, gays in restaurants, etc.

This is the only battle they've seemed interested in fighting since Obama took over and continued all of Bush's policies. Anything to wage war against the stupid intolerant redneck jerks over on the Republican side! Who has time to question their own party, right? Gotta go fight the opposition like mindless ants! Crushing debt? Who cares, there's a restaurant in an Arizona town who doesn't want to let gay customers in! So logically if you're an angry liberal in Massachusetts, you'd better scurry online and make that battle cry numero uno on the message boards!

Mind you, I honestly don't give a shit if gays get married or what they do. It's like democrats who AREN'T in unions crying out about union rights. What the **** is that battle up to you for?? Same things with gays and christians. Let them ****ing have it out on their own, and WORRY ABOUT WHAT MATTERS.

You ****ing idiots are going to allow this country to sink ever deeper, because you're so easily divided, so gullible, so shallow-minded, so weak and fragile, and so needy that every day we get fukced over by our own "leaders" and the special interests behind them, because Democrats have this insane desperation to play mommy over every little social issue. I mean this is outright ridiculous.

Less than a decade ago, the people who wanted the intolerant jerks out of office pretended like they cared about the lives of soldiers and arabs. Remember the death tallies they used to bring up every day? Where are those now!?!? Remember the .gifs of the national deficit and cost of war they kept posting with little clocks that kept it up to the minute? Where are those!?!?

Suddenly they don't care. How could they question Obama? They're not smart enough to think on their own. The whole time they "hated Bush" it was because they were told to. That's the only reason. Where is the questioning of his stunt double now? These people are afraid to go out on their own intellectually. They're born sheep. And when I say "these people" I mean YOU PEOPLE.

KevinNYC
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Laker4Lyfe
Droid101
DukeDelonte13
JMT
Ridonks

You ****ing simple minded morons who do nothing but cheer and bleet for your "side" and don't have a single clue why. Take your cue from the leaders, and give your self a gratifying pat on the back for being like "super smart and nice bc ur a democrat, yeah!"

Meanwhile, your lack of recognizing the real issues and priorities is what is contributing to our devolution from strong, independent, healthy state to an oppressive, fascist country with rapidly growing income disparity.


BUT AT LEAST THE GAYZ CAN GET MARRIED!!!!!





http://guardianlv.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Gay-Marriage-Should-Not-Be-a-Federal-Issue1.jpg



:banana:

[MavsSuperFan]

BUT AT LEAST THE GAYZ CAN GET MARRIED!!!!!


Congratz man. Now you dont need to be so angry anymore

[mr.big35]

Remember, when the country was ringing up a deficit, occupying the middle east, spying on its own citizens, the left used that as its battle cry to get the big meanie republican out of office and replace him with the noble, compassionate, populist democrat.

Come to find out, the issue the left cares the absolute most about, more than recessions and depressions, bloody wars and enormous debts, authoritarian power and personal intrusion... is gays in the military, gays being married, gays in restaurants, etc.

This is the only battle they've seemed interested in fighting since Obama took over and continued all of Bush's policies. Anything to wage war against the stupid intolerant redneck jerks over on the Republican side! Who has time to question their own party, right? Gotta go fight the opposition like mindless ants! Crushing debt? Who cares, there's a restaurant in an Arizona town who doesn't want to let gay customers in! So logically if you're an angry liberal in Massachusetts, you'd better scurry online and make that battle cry numero uno on the message boards!

Mind you, I honestly don't give a shit if gays get married or what they do. It's like democrats who AREN'T in unions crying out about union rights. What the **** is that battle up to you for?? Same things with gays and christians. Let them ****ing have it out on their own, and WORRY ABOUT WHAT MATTERS.

You ****ing idiots are going to allow this country to sink ever deeper, because you're so easily divided, so gullible, so shallow-minded, so weak and fragile, and so needy that every day we get fukced over by our own "leaders" and the special interests behind them, because Democrats have this insane desperation to play mommy over every little social issue. I mean this is outright ridiculous.

Less than a decade ago, the people who wanted the intolerant jerks out of office pretended like they cared about the lives of soldiers and arabs. Remember the death tallies they used to bring up every day? Where are those now!?!? Remember the .gifs of the national deficit and cost of war they kept posting with little clocks that kept it up to the minute? Where are those!?!?

Suddenly they don't care. How could they question Obama? They're not smart enough to think on their own. The whole time they "hated Bush" it was because they were told to. That's the only reason. Where is the questioning of his stunt double now? These people are afraid to go out on their own intellectually. They're born sheep. And when I say "these people" I mean YOU PEOPLE.

KevinNYC
Sarcastic
bagelred
Deucewallaces
kentatm
RMWG
KeylessEntry
RoseCity
niko
Blue&Orange
reppy
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crisoner
RedBlackAttack
Rasheed1
Knoe Itall


You ****ing simple minded morons who do nothing but cheer and bleet for your "side" and don't have a single clue why. Take your cue from the leaders, and give your self a gratifying pat on the back for being like "super smart and nice bc ur a democrat, yeah!"

Meanwhile, your lack of recognizing the real issues and priorities is what is contributing to our devolution from strong, independent, healthy state to an oppressive, fascist country with rapidly growing income disparity.


BUT AT LEAST THE GAYZ CAN GET MARRIED!!!!!





http://guardianlv.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Gay-Marriage-Should-Not-Be-a-Federal-Issue1.jpg



:banana:


obama's foreign policy is just same as bush. he is more aggresive in drone ware fare than bush

[Akrazotile]

Congratz man. Now you dont need to be so angry anymore


Actually if someone threw your phony intellectual "wannabe cool" progressive analytically barren f@ggot ass off the top of a tall building, then I could relax a little.

Until then I'm pissed.

[Jameerthefear]

http://i.imgur.com/bF89oKX.gif

[JtotheIzzo]

Your right, Obama really is the black Bush, he has done little to change or induce hope in anyone.

I think the writing is on the wall now, the US is in deep caca and only morons pledge full allegiance to the jackass or the elephant.

I think in the 'aughts' there seemed to be a difference between the two, Bush seem so befuddled and things were going so poorly that it was only logical to harken back to the days of Sweet Dick Willy as better times, but ole Barry Hussy came in, and couldn't do shit.

You can blame Boehner, you can blame tea bagging but the reality is when you take away the f@gs and the baby killers the ONLY difference between The Cincinnati REDS and the St. Louis BLUES is what to do with that cherry on top last three percent of revenue. The BLUES put it back in the pockets of mostly those who donated it in the first place, while the REDS divvy it up amongst the general population.

American governance is a ruse (as it is in many other countries) but there was a time last decade where it was compelling (kind of like there was a time people entertained 9/11 conspiracies), but now the reality is not so neat, or shocking. It is just a bunch of paper pushers, pushing papers in the direction of making corporations richer, THAT'S IT. The corporations jockey for their turn at the plate to influence decision makers, but the decision makers are frauds themselves, they only rep those who prop them up financially, not with the vote.

You watch Fox News and buy in wholeheartedly, you are simple.

You watch MSNBC and think it is the truth, you are simple.

Its that simple, just a perverted dog and pony show to fill air time.

[Rasheed1]

My name doesn't belong in that group because I have NEVER defended Obama's Foreign Policy moves..

I ripped Obama a new one for NDAA, NSA, re-authorizing the patriot act.. His failure to arrest Bush & Cheney as war criminals at the start of his presidency, and his drone policy…

Look it up… Im sure you can google it.. and Im sure people remember me doing it..

[nathanjizzle]

politics is so stupid. not because politics itself is stupid,but the people who debate it are.

[Dresta]

Completely agree: only a pathetic partisan would still support Obama

The man is every bit the corporate fascist Bush was, and just as keen to maintain a presence in the Middle East. Meanwhile, he felt it essential to force through shambolic healthcare reform at a time when the nation was already economically crippled, for the sole purpose of giving himself something to hang his legacy on. A selfish, cynical and manipulative piece of demagogic garbage (like 95% of politicians though, to be fair to him).

He has been an epic let down, though it does make the congregations during the campaign who worshipped him like he was the second coming of Christ that much more amusing. I wonder if KevinNYC was at those rallies (my guess would be yes).

[joe]

I don't think a politician can change anything really. I was into Ron Paul but now I think just completely staying out of it is the best idea. I still haven't voted and likely never will. Republicans/Democrats/whatever are fighting with huge swords on a hill, and everyone is trying to grab the biggest sword and get to the top of the hill. I'm staying off of the hill and considering everyone on it to be wasting their lives, at best.

Edit - And yes I do remember that. I was one of those people, and I probably did just hate Bush because I was told to to an extent. Though I had a natural disdain for things like the Patriot Act and the wars. But by the time Obama was elected I was getting into politics/economics and quickly realized he was trash too.

[IamRAMBO24]

Remember, when the country was ringing up a deficit, occupying the middle east, spying on its own citizens, the left used that as its battle cry to get the big meanie republican out of office and replace him with the noble, compassionate, populist democrat.

Come to find out, the issue the left cares the absolute most about, more than recessions and depressions, bloody wars and enormous debts, authoritarian power and personal intrusion... is gays in the military, gays being married, gays in restaurants, etc.

This is the only battle they've seemed interested in fighting since Obama took over and continued all of Bush's policies. Anything to wage war against the stupid intolerant redneck jerks over on the Republican side! Who has time to question their own party, right? Gotta go fight the opposition like mindless ants! Crushing debt? Who cares, there's a restaurant in an Arizona town who doesn't want to let gay customers in! So logically if you're an angry liberal in Massachusetts, you'd better scurry online and make that battle cry numero uno on the message boards!

Mind you, I honestly don't give a shit if gays get married or what they do. It's like democrats who AREN'T in unions crying out about union rights. What the **** is that battle up to you for?? Same things with gays and christians. Let them ****ing have it out on their own, and WORRY ABOUT WHAT MATTERS.

You ****ing idiots are going to allow this country to sink ever deeper, because you're so easily divided, so gullible, so shallow-minded, so weak and fragile, and so needy that every day we get fukced over by our own "leaders" and the special interests behind them, because Democrats have this insane desperation to play mommy over every little social issue. I mean this is outright ridiculous.

Less than a decade ago, the people who wanted the intolerant jerks out of office pretended like they cared about the lives of soldiers and arabs. Remember the death tallies they used to bring up every day? Where are those now!?!? Remember the .gifs of the national deficit and cost of war they kept posting with little clocks that kept it up to the minute? Where are those!?!?

Suddenly they don't care. How could they question Obama? They're not smart enough to think on their own. The whole time they "hated Bush" it was because they were told to. That's the only reason. Where is the questioning of his stunt double now? These people are afraid to go out on their own intellectually. They're born sheep. And when I say "these people" I mean YOU PEOPLE.

KevinNYC
Sarcastic
bagelred
Deucewallaces
kentatm
RMWG
KeylessEntry
RoseCity
niko
Blue&Orange
reppy
MavsSuperFan
crisoner
RedBlackAttack
Rasheed1
Knoe Itall


You ****ing simple minded morons who do nothing but cheer and bleet for your "side" and don't have a single clue why. Take your cue from the leaders, and give your self a gratifying pat on the back for being like "super smart and nice bc ur a democrat, yeah!"

Meanwhile, your lack of recognizing the real issues and priorities is what is contributing to our devolution from strong, independent, healthy state to an oppressive, fascist country with rapidly growing income disparity.


BUT AT LEAST THE GAYZ CAN GET MARRIED!!!!!





http://guardianlv.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Gay-Marriage-Should-Not-Be-a-Federal-Issue1.jpg



:banana:

What a stupid and hyproctrical post. It lacks in originality also because it is a blatant rip off of my style, except it is stupid.

[Akrazotile]

I don't think a politician can change anything really. I was into Ron Paul but now I think just completely staying out of it is the best idea. I still haven't voted and likely never will. Republicans/Democrats/whatever are fighting with huge swords on a hill, and everyone is trying to grab the biggest sword and get to the top of the hill. I'm staying off of the hill and considering everyone on it to be wasting their lives, at best.

Edit - And yes I do remember that. I was one of those people, and I probably did just hate Bush because I was told to to an extent. Though I had a natural disdain for things like the Patriot Act and the wars. But by the time Obama was elected I was getting into politics/economics and quickly realized he was trash too.


Definitely not, if you dont actively protect yourself, someone will take advantage, period. Which is why all the people at the bottom of the pyramid continue to struggle, because they dont care and they dont pay attention and they breed like crazy. And then liberals act all surprised and outraged when theirs a socioeconomic gap. Everyone should involve themselves, but should make sure their PRIORITIES dont get sidetracked. Im afraid watching CNN for divisive news about the latest "gay rights injustice" doesnt qualify.

[kentatm]

:oldlol:

yes, because none of us have criticized Obama ever. :rolleyes:

as per usual you are nothing but an angry ass twisting everything to suit your bitterness.

never mind that as horrible as the increased use of drones is, its still not the same thing as invading entire countries with troops on the ground.

go ahead and pretend it is if it makes you feel better though.


http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/3861291/smile-you-son-of-a-boom-o.gif

[Akrazotile]

What a stupid and hyproctrical post. It lacks in originality also because it is a blatant rip off of my style, except it is stupid.


Yeah dude, totally. Youve exposed me. I plagiarized Kant word for word.
Should have known I couldnt get it by you :rolleyes:

[Heavincent]

His failure to arrest Bush & Cheney as war criminals at the start of his presidency


But Obama is a war criminal himself :oldlol:

[Rasheed1]

But Obama is a war criminal himself :oldlol:


at the start of his presidency

^that is the important part of the sentence

Of course Obama is a war criminal now… But he wasn't one at the beginning of his presidency.. and that is why I criticized him at the start of his presidency for not arresting the war criminals who came before him..

He could have sent a strong message to the whole world that the United States won't be doing business the way we did in the previous Administration by rebuking everything Bush & Cheney had done and bringing them to justice for it..

But he started right out of the gate making excuses for their behavior and I knew we had just another puppet in office

[IamRAMBO24]

Yeah dude, totally. Youve exposed me. I plagiarized Kant word for word.
Should have known I couldnt get it by you :rolleyes:

I am talking about the style, not the idea. You can't plagiarize Kant because you are too stupid to understand him.

Do you even know why I am calling your post out?

It is hyproctrical:

1. Democrats no longer care bout the war, economy, and invasion of privacy because they are more focused on the gay agenda.

2. Republicans don't care for those things either and were more focused on social issues that divide the general populace moreso than unite.

As long as you guys are talking about stupid issues like gay rights, the issues that really affect you will have it's way.

I wrote a thread on deceptive logic, read it, and understand the diversion they are doing to your country.

[IamRAMBO24]

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]^that is the important part of the sentence

Of course Obama is a war criminal now

[Dresta]

Yeah 'gay rights' is one of the most ridiculous diversions and yet it seems to have worked because it gets 'liberal' and religious types onto their moral high-horses, which is where they love to be.

To think so much time has been taken up on an issue that is so unimportant and that affects such a small percentage of the population while there are so many other pressing concerns. Typical misdirection of politicians: whipping up moral frenzies as always to mask their calculating misdeeds.

[mr.big35]

I am talking about the style, not the idea. You can't plagiarize Kant because you are too stupid to understand him.

Do you even know why I am calling your post out?

It is hyproctrical:

1. Democrats no longer care bout the war, economy, and invasion of privacy because they are more focused on the gay agenda.

2. Republicans don't care for those things either and were more focused on social issues that divide the general populace moreso than unite.

As long as you guys are talking about stupid issues like gay rights, the issues that really affect you will have it's way.

I wrote a thread on deceptive logic, read it, and understand the diversion they are doing to your country.

how do you know that he is too stupid to understand kant. You are the person who think there are ufos.

[IamRAMBO24]

Definitely not, if you dont actively protect yourself, someone will take advantage, period. Which is why all the people at the bottom of the pyramid continue to struggle, because they dont care and they dont pay attention and they breed like crazy. And then liberals act all surprised and outraged when theirs a socioeconomic gap. Everyone should involve themselves, but should make sure their PRIORITIES dont get sidetracked. Im afraid watching CNN for divisive news about the latest "gay rights injustice" doesnt qualify.

Another stupid solution.

You don't understand the root of the problem: if both the Dems and Repubs carry out the same agenda: war, invasion of privacy, economy, etc. then it goes to reason your involvement of the political process (supporting either sides) should be futile because they are going to f*ck up the country either way.

Supporting an independent third party or not supporting at all should be the best course of action.

[IamRAMBO24]

how do you know that he is too stupid to understand kant. You are the person who think there are ufos.

And you are stupid to think they don't exist. Seriously you have to be a complete idiot to not think there is some other life form amongst the billions and billions of planets in the universe. The sh*ttiest planet for life next to us has had some sort of life in its past, and that's the nearest sh*t to us. What about the other billion planets light years away with some that have the same makeup and some with water?

That is a hypothetical, but the fact is you don't know, so to proclaim there are no other life in this universe when you don't f*ckin know is just a stupid a*s idiotic premise.

The difference between you and I is I am exercising the idea.

[IamRAMBO24]

And I know he is too stupid to understand Kant simply because he can't explain him in his own words when challenged. He has no clue. Nada. Dumb as a rat.

[Swedish Chef]

And I know he is too stupid to understand Kant simply because he can't explain him in his own words when challenged. He has no clue. Nada. Dumb as a rat.

"Treyfun's Levyers"

[Akrazotile]

I am talking about the style, not the idea. You can't plagiarize Kant because you are too stupid to understand him.

Do you even know why I am calling your post out?

It is hyproctrical:

1. Democrats no longer care bout the war, economy, and invasion of privacy because they are more focused on the gay agenda.

2. Republicans don't care for those things either and were more focused on social issues that divide the general populace moreso than unite.

As long as you guys are talking about stupid issues like gay rights, the issues that really affect you will have it's way.

I wrote a thread on deceptive logic, read it, and understand the diversion they are doing to your country.


:roll:


Sorry mayne. I've never noticed a post of yours like this. Not on your IamRambo name, not on your Nick Young one, or 9erEmpire, Mr. Jabbar, Bgriffin, etc. so there's no way I could have copied any of your :blah

I'm really sorry your pettiness and neediness for credit and reckanishinz' have deluded you into think I'm 'poaching your steelo' home skillet. :facepalm

I've been raising this issue as long as I've been here.

[dunksby]

Remember, when the country was ringing up a deficit, occupying the middle east, spying on its own citizens, the left used that as its battle cry to get the big meanie republican out of office and replace him with the noble, compassionate, populist democrat.

Come to find out, the issue the left cares the absolute most about, more than recessions and depressions, bloody wars and enormous debts, authoritarian power and personal intrusion... is gays in the military, gays being married, gays in restaurants, etc.

This is the only battle they've seemed interested in fighting since Obama took over and continued all of Bush's policies. Anything to wage war against the stupid intolerant redneck jerks over on the Republican side! Who has time to question their own party, right? Gotta go fight the opposition like mindless ants! Crushing debt? Who cares, there's a restaurant in an Arizona town who doesn't want to let gay customers in! So logically if you're an angry liberal in Massachusetts, you'd better scurry online and make that battle cry numero uno on the message boards!

Mind you, I honestly don't give a shit if gays get married or what they do. It's like democrats who AREN'T in unions crying out about union rights. What the **** is that battle up to you for?? Same things with gays and christians. Let them ****ing have it out on their own, and WORRY ABOUT WHAT MATTERS.

You ****ing idiots are going to allow this country to sink ever deeper, because you're so easily divided, so gullible, so shallow-minded, so weak and fragile, and so needy that every day we get fukced over by our own "leaders" and the special interests behind them, because Democrats have this insane desperation to play mommy over every little social issue. I mean this is outright ridiculous.

Less than a decade ago, the people who wanted the intolerant jerks out of office pretended like they cared about the lives of soldiers and arabs. Remember the death tallies they used to bring up every day? Where are those now!?!? Remember the .gifs of the national deficit and cost of war they kept posting with little clocks that kept it up to the minute? Where are those!?!?

Suddenly they don't care. How could they question Obama? They're not smart enough to think on their own. The whole time they "hated Bush" it was because they were told to. That's the only reason. Where is the questioning of his stunt double now? These people are afraid to go out on their own intellectually. They're born sheep. And when I say "these people" I mean YOU PEOPLE.

KevinNYC
Sarcastic
bagelred
Deucewallaces
kentatm
RMWG
KeylessEntry
RoseCity
niko
Blue&Orange
reppy
MavsSuperFan
crisoner
RedBlackAttack
Rasheed1
Knoe Itall


You ****ing simple minded morons who do nothing but cheer and bleet for your "side" and don't have a single clue why. Take your cue from the leaders, and give your self a gratifying pat on the back for being like "super smart and nice bc ur a democrat, yeah!"

Meanwhile, your lack of recognizing the real issues and priorities is what is contributing to our devolution from strong, independent, healthy state to an oppressive, fascist country with rapidly growing income disparity.



What's your previous account? Just curious.

[Akrazotile]

Yeah 'gay rights' is one of the most ridiculous diversions and yet it seems to have worked because it gets 'liberal' and religious types onto their moral high-horses, which is where they love to be.

To think so much time has been taken up on an issue that is so unimportant and that affects such a small percentage of the population while there are so many other pressing concerns. Typical misdirection of politicians: whipping up moral frenzies as always to mask their calculating misdeeds.


This really is ALL it is. Exploiting people's need for self-assured righteousness. Winning some sort of frivolous ideological competition and the feeling of satisfaction that accompanies is. When a particular battle is won? On to the next one. No time to stand still and hammer out tedious but important issues that require thoughtful attention instead of frenzied mudslinging. It's amazing, with all our access to so many interesting things to occupy our minds, history, science, art, nature, comedy and so forth, you'd think people could get their jollies through those activities and set aside some time for important, objective critical thinking and initiative when it comes to politics.

But instead, people aren't interested in history, science, art, nature, comedy and so forth. They're hard wired to be mindless competitors against whatever foe their leaders point them toward. Pick your sports teams, pick your religion, pick your politics, wind 'em up and let em battle! Charge! ARGABGBG MY SIDE IS RIGHT! YOUR SIDE IS STUPID! MY SIDE IS RIGHT!! ARGARGHEHAR! It's the only sense of fulfillment these yokes can ever achieve.

It's so sad and disappoint trying to come to grips with the reality of man. Just do a search of any message board anywhere during Bush's term. Everyone on the left was SCREAMING BLOODY MURDER (literally) about Bush's economic agenda, foreign policy, domestic authority. But since then? These same people are up in arms over the term 'legitimate rape' and whether restaurants in Arizona are going to ask "buttsucks or non?" when you make a reservation.

These idiots were literally talking about seceding or expatriating over Bush's main policies, all of which have been continued, and now suddenly their big gripe about world affairs is gay marriage. Talk about robotic sheep. These people are under the politicians thumbs like WHOA. And honestly the main reason I single out Democrats is because they're always the ones pretending like they're the free thinkers, the intellectually advanced, the progressive non conformists, the independent minds in a sea of republican sheep.

Yeah. Real independent :rolleyes:

[Akrazotile]

What's your previous account? Just curious.


GOBB.


Had that one for a while, got tired of posting on it tho.

[joe]

Definitely not, if you dont actively protect yourself, someone will take advantage, period. Which is why all the people at the bottom of the pyramid continue to struggle, because they dont care and they dont pay attention and they breed like crazy. And then liberals act all surprised and outraged when theirs a socioeconomic gap. Everyone should involve themselves, but should make sure their PRIORITIES dont get sidetracked. Im afraid watching CNN for divisive news about the latest "gay rights injustice" doesnt qualify.

Someone will take advantage regardless of what I do. I think there's a difference between those who are ignorant of politics and those who are willfully ignoring it. Politicians are some of the lowest forms of people imaginable, and I'm not going to waste my time watching, cheering on, or participating in their game. I am still interested in the why's of society and politics.. why are things this way, why did humans end up with this system. But the day to day caring about what Mitt Romney said or the latest bullshit Obama did... I won't bother myself with it, willfully.

Edit- Although I don't pay attention anymore, I still think what you listed in the thread title are insane ostrich shit policies.

[Akrazotile]

Someone will take advantage regardless of what I do. I think there's a difference between those who are ignorant of politics and those who are willfully ignoring it. Politicians are some of the lowest forms of people imaginable, and I'm not going to waste my time watching, cheering on, or participating in their game. I am still interested in the why's of society and politics.. why are things this way, why did humans end up with this system. But the day to day caring about what Mitt Romney said or the latest bullshit Obama did... I won't bother myself with it, willfully.


Deception and manipulation will always be part of the political process, but it can be significantly minimized from where it is now by a very simple process: PARTICIPATION.

It has to be broken up into smaller fragments however or everyone will feel the same way - what difference can I make? This is why people should be ADAMANT about states rights. These idiot liberal democrats who want to continue to hand over more and more authority to the federal government, a huge ass bureaucracy are so feeble minded and ignorant of history they are willing to send us down a slope toward the shark pit instead of just dealing with a little unpleasant reality in the moment as it comes up.

Try having a weekly meeting amongst the people in your apartment complex, or neighborhood. Even if most of them aren't into the stuff just encourage them to attend and give it a chance. Even if they don't want to contribute their own thoughts, at least they can hear you tell them something more meaningful than the political rhetoric theyll get on cable television. Pass out the contact info for your elected officials. Tell them to hit up politicians and let them know that people are watching and their jobs are on the line and if they don't start doing right by their constituents, they WILL get voted out of office. Get other neighborhoods to do the same. Exchange ideas that come up at your own meetings and

It's not 'easy' but it's honestly not that hard. All it takes is some effort. Ignorance is the feeding/breeding ground for political corruption. If neighborhoods throughout America get together and pay closer attention, the results will be there. That is the greatest strength of democracy, is that people CAN change things, they just have to have an idea what their purpose is. That's also the weakness that's easiest to exploit, the fact that the masses typically have no idea what their actual purpose is in any capacity.

[joe]

Deception and manipulation will always be part of the political process, but it can be significantly minimized from where it is now by a very simple process: PARTICIPATION.

It has to be broken up into smaller fragments however or everyone will feel the same way - what difference can I make? This is why people should be ADAMANT about states rights. These idiot liberal democrats who want to continue to hand over more and more authority to the federal government are so feeble minded and ignorant of history they are willing to send us down a slope toward the shark pit instead of just dealing with a little unpleasant reality in the moment as it comes up.

Try having a weekly meeting amongst the people in your apartment complex, or neighborhood. Even if most of them aren't into the stuff just encourage them to attend and give it a chance. Even if they don't want to contribute their own thoughts, at least they can hear you tell them something more meaningful than the political rhetoric theyll get on cable television. Pass out the contact info for your elected officials. Tell them to hit up politicians and let them know that people are watching and their jobs are on the line and if they don't start doing right by their constituents, they WILL get voted out of office. Get other neighborhoods to do the same. Exchange ideas that come up at your own meetings and

It's not 'easy' but it's honestly not that hard. All it takes is some effort. Ignorance is the feeding/breeding ground for political corruption. If neighborhoods throughout America get together and pay closer attention, the results will be there. That is the greatest strength of democracy, is that people CAN change things, they just have to have an idea what their purpose is. That's also the strength that's easiest to exploit, the fact that the masses typically have no idea what their actual purpose is in any capacity.

Or is that the great illusion of democracy?

What about going the other way. What if like 95% of the people didn't vote in the next election? What if everyone just laughed at Obama and Romney and then simply went on with their day? What if we just ignored the stupidest laws like everyone does with marijuana? It's kinda like Freddy Krueger.. it can only hurt you if you believe it's real. Or in this case, politics can only dominate our lives if we believe it's important.

[Akrazotile]

Or is that the great illusion of democracy?

What about going the other way. What if like 95% of the people didn't vote in the next election? What if everyone just laughed at Obama and Romney and then simply went on with their day? What if we just ignored the stupidest laws like everyone does with marijuana? It's kinda like Freddy Krueger.. it can only hurt you if you believe it's real. Or in this case, politics can only dominate our lives if we believe it's important.

That would also be a showing of democratic solidarity.

It works if you can get everyone on the same page. Try not paying your income tax when everyone else didn't get the memo, you'll see that the consequences are unfortunately pretty real.

[joe]

That would also be a showing of democratic solidarity.

It works if you can get everyone on the same page. Try not paying your income tax when everyone else didn't get the memo, you'll see that the consequences are unfortunately pretty real.

Like Irwin Schiff? ha. His story is really interesting if you haven't heard it, though I will assume you have.

[Akrazotile]

The other thing too is that people need to be CALLED OUT when they are ****ing things up. That way they can't hide and continue to act like fakkits anonymously. BRING THEM TO THE LIGHT and that's how they'll actually change.


KevinNYC
Sarcastic
bagelred
Deucewallaces
kentatm
RMWG
KeylessEntry
RoseCity
niko
Blue&Orange
reppy
MavsSuperFan
crisoner
RedBlackAttack
Rasheed1
Knoe Itall
Laker4Lyfe

Need to be called out for being ignorant fakkits who fukc up the country with their need to bleet for one side against another instead of legitimately analyzing the state of their government and determining what the actual priorities should be.

Those are just off the top of my head, I'll update it as I recognize more.

[mr.big35]

GOBB.


Had that one for a while, got tired of posting on it tho.

come to back to GOBB and reach 100k posts

[Akrazotile]

come to back to GOBB and reach 100k posts


Well, I still post retarded shit with that name in the nba forum from time to time.

[Dresta]

Or is that the great illusion of democracy?

What about going the other way. What if like 95% of the people didn't vote in the next election? What if everyone just laughed at Obama and Romney and then simply went on with their day? What if we just ignored the stupidest laws like everyone does with marijuana? It's kinda like Freddy Krueger.. it can only hurt you if you believe it's real. Or in this case, politics can only dominate our lives if we believe it's important.
Nope. The people get pretty much what they want in this country: the will of the majority still remains sovereign. The problem is that the majority are uneducated when it comes to politics, so they are incapable of realising that the current situation is the inevitable consequence of the expansion of state power they clamoured for in the first place. They do not know what the long-term consequences are for the short-term gains they seek to acquire through the utilisation of political power. You hand arbitrary power to a bunch of political mountebanks and you reap the consequences. Added to this, because of public ignorance, the masses are no routinely misled by demagogues on one irrelevant crusade after another, to the point where public opinion could easily be described as coming from the top down: people are spared the need to formulate their own opinions, and can just arrogate the opinions of whatever political mountebank they most favour at any given time.

There is a reason that state power needs to be constrained by the law; the founders knew this, they designed the Constitution with this specifically in mind, yet gradual encroachments over the past 2 centuries has rendered the Constitution into a symbolic husk of what is was supposed to be. Democracy does not mean 'the majority gets what the majority desires' anyway, in fact, one of the major preoccupations of the founders was how to limit this majority power.

[Dresta]

But instead, people aren't interested in history, science, art, nature, comedy and so forth. They're hard wired to be mindless competitors against whatever foe their leaders point them toward. Pick your sports teams, pick your religion, pick your politics, wind 'em up and let em battle! Charge! ARGABGBG MY SIDE IS RIGHT! YOUR SIDE IS STUPID! MY SIDE IS RIGHT!! ARGARGHEHAR! It's the only sense of fulfillment these yokes can ever achieve.

IIt's the herd instinct at work - the need to belong, to feel part of something, the fear of being alone and of having to make your decisions and discern your own values through the process of ratiocination alone. This is too scary for most people to face because they don't have the mettle for it.


‘Liberal institutions cease to be liberal as soon as they are attained: later on, there are no worse and no more thorough injurers of freedom than liberal institutions. Their effects are known well enough: they undermine the will to power; they level mountain and valley, and call that morality; they make men small, cowardly, and hedonistic – every time it is the herd animal that triumphs with them. Liberalism: in other words, herd-animalization.’

Sounds like a pretty good summary of 100 years of US history :lol

[Akrazotile]

It's the herd instinct at work - the need to belong, to feel part of something, the fear of being alone and of having to make your decisions and discern your own values through the process of ratiocination alone. This is too scary for most people to face because they don't have the mettle for it.



Sounds like a pretty good summary of 100 years of US history :lol



This is why with the Arizona shennanigans I said why not just go ahead genetically program us all to be identical unisex, uniracial robots. Thats the only way to ensure total equality and nobody gets a hurt feeling. Apparently, the "non conformist" liberals dont care about specificity of identity. The "progressive minds" dont care about individual advancement. They have neither physical nor intellectual ability to reign over anyone, to achieve any legitimate environmental position of control, their only means to do it is through group coercion, and the righteous justification they use to help themselves sleep is that its #ForEquality. Really they just wanna "win" by getting their political way, feel like theyve accomplished something, and feel superior through their justification of it.

[Derka]

People on both sides of the divide are utterly lost.

Liberal, conservative, Democrat, Republican, any other label you want to think up...its all horseshit. Just more ways of keeping people divided and hating each other so they don't see the 535 elected criminals robbing them blind and laughing all the way.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

u guys need to realize that the USA arent a democracy. u only have two parties who are basically the same and are both run by powerful economists and the war industry.
its hard to swallow i know, but the USA arent a democracy and never were since WW2.
stand up for yourself or deal with it:coleman:

[Dresta]

This is why with the Arizona shennanigans I said why not just go ahead genetically program us all to be identical unisex, uniracial robots. Thats the only way to ensure total equality and nobody gets a hurt feeling. Apparently, the "non conformist" liberals dont care about specificity of identity. The "progressive minds" dont care about individual advancement. They have neither physical nor intellectual ability to reign over anyone, to achieve any legitimate environmental position of control, their only means to do it is through group coercion, and the righteous justification they use to help themselves sleep is that its #ForEquality. Really they just wanna "win" by getting their political way, feel like theyve accomplished something, and feel superior through their justification of it.
Equality is just another one of those meaningless political buzzwords. The whole concept of equality is nonsensical because people are all different individuals, and are therefore all unequal in one way or another. Equality pursued to its logical conclusion would require making all citizens exactly the same in every way, it would be the end of any kind of individuality, and hence, the end of our civilisation.

[Akrazotile]

Equality is just another one of those meaningless political buzzwords. The whole concept of equality is nonsensical because people are all different individuals, and are therefore all unequal in one way or another. Equality pursued to its logical conclusion would require making all citizens exactly the same in every way, it would be the end of any kind of individuality, and hence, the end of our civilisation.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.190041!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/alg-obama-jon-stewart-jpg.jpg


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Rachel-Maddow-112712.jpg


http://i.huffpost.com/gen/357724/thumbs/s-KEITH-OLBERMANN-large300.jpg


http://www.ontheissues.org/Al_On_America.jpg





"Well but these people give me teh good advice for how to thinking!"

- Real men wear green

[Akrazotile]

Lets go ahead and bump this on up shall we

[Stempel, HERB]

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]My name doesn't belong in that group because I have NEVER defended Obama's Foreign Policy moves..

I ripped Obama a new one for NDAA, NSA, re-authorizing the patriot act.. His failure to arrest Bush & Cheney as war criminals at the start of his presidency, and his drone policy

[Myth]

Remember, when the country was ringing up a deficit, occupying the middle east, spying on its own citizens, the left used that as its battle cry to get the big meanie republican out of office and replace him with the noble, compassionate, populist democrat.

Come to find out, the issue the left cares the absolute most about, more than recessions and depressions, bloody wars and enormous debts, authoritarian power and personal intrusion... is gays in the military, gays being married, gays in restaurants, etc.

This is the only battle they've seemed interested in fighting since Obama took over and continued all of Bush's policies. ....


BUT AT LEAST THE GAYZ CAN GET MARRIED!!!!!


(note: I just skimmed and the remaining quoted parts are parts I read more thoroughly)

As a very liberal person, here are my 2 cents. Both Bush and Obama have been pretty terrible presidents. Obama seemed to me, more so than Bush, to care about the poor and the middle class when setting up things like taxes and health care. Unfortunately, the majority of plans that him and his administration came up with failed despite seemingly coming from a place of well meaning (Obamacare is great in theory for example, but was an epic failure). Bush seemed more like a puppet to me, working for rich white men (Romney scared me because he seemed to be the same thing, but we may never know what would have actually happened under him). LGBT issues under Obama have been a win for him. Even though Obama overall has been a failure, that does not mean we (as society, as liberals, as whatever) cannot be happy for where he has done good. I know Bush did some good here and there as well (can't remember specifics, but I won't pretend that he was all bad or anything), but as far as I can recall, Obama's success with LGBT issues was a bigger win IMO than anything Bush did. Essentially, I thank Obama for LGBT issues, and I thank Bush for allowing Will Ferrell's impression; but I can't think of too much to thank either of them outside of that.

The biggest problem with American politics in general is the 2 party system that seems to have polarized politicians more and more. Nothing gets done anymore because even if 1 side has a good idea that benefits the whole country, the other side will reject it because they fear that it will make the side in power look more successful. For example, if liberals have a good idea, conservatives will reject it so the liberals won't get credit. The conservatives could propose the same damn thing 3 years later if the power shifts, and then the liberals would reject it so the conservatives don't get credit. Next thing you know, there is a stale mate and nothing gets done. The only time anything gets passed is if the issue starts getting shitloads of support from both sides to the point that a side will give in to avoid looking like the enemy. I believe this is the real reason gay marriage is finally being allowed. The liberals pushed it enough and made it public enough that more and more conservatives started opening up to it. It has gotten to the point where the republican politicians had no choice but to agree with it or look like a villain (depending on the state).

[Akrazotile]

Are you kidding, if the next President tries to arrest Obama, rasheed1 will claim Obama was being racially profiled :oldlol:


"Oh, just because he's BLACK you assume he's the one who authorized drone strikes that killed civilians. Straight up profiling. It could have been anyone."

[Nick Young]

Obama has basically taken all the work Bush did and doubled it. He is essentially George W. Bush II in everything but voice and appearance.

Despite being responsible for more civilian deaths in a shorter amount of time, more troops being sent overseas, more anti-privacy and civilian monitering laws then W. Bush, Obama is glorified and Bush is demonized:roll: :roll: :roll:

I don't understand these clowns that hate Bush and love Obama. They are effectively the same president, if anything Obama is much worse.

Obama is assassinating American citizens overseas without any trial with robot drones. He is carpet bombing civilian populations in Pakistan with said drones, and yet he somehow gets a free pass. That's some serious Darth Vader level shit right there too.

[Akrazotile]

Despite being responsible for more civilian deaths in a shorter amount of time, more troops being sent overseas, more anti-privacy and civilian monitering laws then W. Bush

Obama is assasinating American citizens overseas without any trial with robot drones. He is carpet bombing civilian populations in Pakistan with said drones, and yet he somehow gets a free pass. That's some serious Darth Vader level shit right there too.


This may be true, but think of how much better GAYS HAVE IT. Now they can get MARRIED!


Im just thankful this country finally got its priorities in order once the President went from Democrat to Republican.


Now all we just need to focus on is letting TRANSGENDERS MARRY PALM TREES YOU GUYS. The stupid republicans dont want to let it happen. GAWD I HATE THOSE STUPID JUDGEMENTSL REDNECK JERKS. I seriously hope one isnt elected president next time, then ill have to go back to caring about war and drones and the economy, in addition to the TOP priority, which is TRANSGENDERS MARRYING PALM TREES.


Im so like, politically involved because I hate the Republicans. I just wish everyone could be like as smart and progressive as I am, gawd it just makes me so cool and so much smarter to be a Democrat. Smh at these stupid backwards bigots who think its a sin in their stupid bible to let transgenders marry palm trees, if only they were as super smart as me to know what issues matter most and how to not be manipulated by popular opinionz, RIGT?! Im awesome!!!!

And look how many dead soldiers there are!!! This is proof that the President is the new Hitle-- Oh wait, sorry, just force of habit left over from the last bleeting instructions I was following. I mean, Obama is SWEET you guys!

Im so smart!!!

[Akrazotile]

KevinNYC
Sarcastic
bagelred
Deucewallaces
kentatm
RMWG
KeylessEntry
RoseCity
niko
Blue&Orange
reppy
MavsSuperFan
crisoner
RedBlackAttack
Rasheed1
Knoe Itall
Laker4Lyfe


Intereting thing about this lot is that theyre all regular posters yet outside of DeucePhalluses, Im not sure ANY of them have posted their picture. Maybe rasheed has. But the rest havent and we all know why. Theyre the freaks and misfits (see: deucewallaces) and they have overdeveloped sensitivity from all those years of insecurity and being picked last for kickball and not being looked at by the girls (or guys) they liked. Their only solace is to basically play protector hero for others in the hopes that somebody FINALLY validates them with attention/appreciation.

Theory = confirmed.


FACT.

[Nick Young]

http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/513a6cd2ecad04296a00000a/george-bush-has-painted-over-50-puppies-and-his-teacher-says-hell-go-down-in-history-as-a-great-artist.jpg

[ALBballer]

Bush hating became "cool" because he came off as a moron and his policies were terrible. Obama is more well spoken but his policies do not differ much from the previous administration. Also there is a racial component, Obama is the first black president and some fear of being labeled a "racist" by criticizing him. I have heard some wild left loonist claim that people dislike Obama because he is black when the reality is some dislike him because he is fraud for promoting "change" while maintaining the status quo.

What complexes me the most is why trivial issues are such heated debates in this country ie abortion and gay rights. Personally I don't care much for either issue but these self-righteous republicans are so quick to shove their beliefs down your throats and liberals act like champions for these rights.

My other issue issue is why people are trying to treat the symptoms without treating the illness. Take wealth inequality, people endorse higher taxes and government mandated programs to solve the issue when the biggest issue is the monetary fiat system. College tuition is increasing at skyrocket rates and people think government programs are needed to control the prices when the issue is related to government back loans and subsidies.

Then there is the issue of buying votes using government funds. Republicans offer tax breaks for the rich and democrats offer entitlement programs for the poor. While the middle class gets neither and gets ****ed by both parties.

Point being of this rant is we are a stupid country that is sidetracked by trivial non-sense without solving the real issues. And it will remain so because people that promote real change i.e. Ron Paul (who is on the extreme side even for my taste) are labeled lunatics. So we will get the same old while being tricked that these two parties are different.

Hillary Clinton will probably be the next president and we can feel good for electing a woman president while continuing to do the same crap that will further bring the country down.

[Nick Young]

Bush hating became "cool" because he came off as a moron and his policies were terrible. Obama is more well spoken but his policies do not differ much from the previous administration. Also there is a racial component, Obama is the first black president and some fear of being labeled a "racist" by criticizing him. I have heard some wild left loonist claim that people dislike Obama because he is black when the reality is some dislike him because he is fraud for promoting "change" while maintaining the status quo.

What complexes me the most is why trivial issues are such heated debates in this country ie abortion and gay rights. Personally I don't care much for either issue but these self-righteous republicans are so quick to shove their beliefs down your throats and liberals act like champions for these rights.

My other issue issue is why people are trying to treat the symptoms without treating the illness. Take wealth inequality, people endorse higher taxes and government mandated programs to solve the issue when the biggest issue is the monetary fiat system. College tuition is increasing at skyrocket rates and people think government programs are needed to control the prices when the issue is related to government back loans and subsidies.

Then there is the issue of buying votes using government funds. Republicans offer tax breaks for the rich and democrats offer entitlement programs for the poor. While the middle class gets neither and gets ****ed by both parties.

Point being of this rant is we are a stupid country that is sidetracked by trivial non-sense without solving the real issues. And it will remain so because people that promote real change i.e. Ron Paul (who is on the extreme side even for my taste) are labeled lunatics. So we will get the same old while being tricked that these two parties are different.

Hillary Clinton will probably be the next president and we can feel good for electing a woman president while continuing to do the same crap that will further bring the country down.
bingo:applause:


Both parties are basically the same. Both parties are basically working together to accomplish a single agenda. Democrat or republican, nothing changes whoever is in office.

[KevinNYC]

http://static1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/4956508+_4c0ed291620ef459dd05478defe4fb8d.jpg

[Nick Young]

http://static1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/4956508+_4c0ed291620ef459dd05478defe4fb8d.jpg
Dis Obama apologist doe?:facepalm
http://stpeteforpeace.org/obama.bush.pakistan.drone.strikes.infograhic.gif
http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/Images/2011/5/23/201152316015142580_16.jpg
http://angrybearblog.com/wp-content/oldimages/angrybear/1/_fjW71B3WLTQ/S8doz3_kd0I/AAAAAAAAAXY/nOrNwC4Dtwc/s1600/obama_budget_deficit_2010.jpg

Obama is worse then W Bush any way you look at it, and let's be honest, Bush was a shit president himself.

[Akrazotile]

Forgot ol droid101, def have to add his pansy ass to the list.

[Akrazotile]

Word lyyyfe

[Bless Mathews]

Who's bush ?

[Myth]

Both parties are basically the same. Both parties are basically working together to accomplish a single agenda. Democrat or republican, nothing changes whoever is in office.

Holy crap, we agree on something.

[Overdrive]

Aslong is you think third parties are a joke nothing will change. Pluralism changes policies not 8 years of A followed by 8 years of B in all eternity. Vote for the green movement the next time, even if you think they're a joke, but if the get enough votes they two big parties have to reconsider what they do.

[Akrazotile]

Aslong is you think third parties are a joke nothing will change. Pluralism changes policies not 8 years of A followed by 8 years of B in all eternity. Vote for the green movement the next time, even if you think they're a joke, but if the get enough votes they two big parties have to reconsider what they do.


During the last presidential election kevinnyc literally said voting for a third party who had no chance was unpatriotic and selfish.


Dat keen political savvy of a fatass collectin welfare... :bowdown:

[lakers_forever]

On topic, Jeremy Scahill destroying MSNBC hypocrites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54fPcCYvLh0

OWNED :oldlol:

Again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW8Bk-o5LnU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PayjmmZLmdU

Obama is a war criminal. Worse than Bush. Wolf in sheep's clothing.


Glen Greenwald also destroying hypocrites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB-itn_LJuM


I don't know about the posters he listed, but the OP has a point about MSNBC type of hypocrites. If it was wrong with Bush, it's still wrong with Obama.

[Charlie Sheen]

On topic, Jeremy Scahill destroying MSNBC hypocrites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54fPcCYvLh0

OWNED :oldlol:

Again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW8Bk-o5LnU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PayjmmZLmdU

Obama is a war criminal. Worse than Bush. Wolf in sheep's clothing.


Glen Greenwald also destroying hypocrites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB-itn_LJuM


I don't know about the posters he listed, but the OP has a point about MSNBC type of hypocrites. If it was wrong with Bush, it's still wrong with Obama.

the irony in this post is you're the exact type of person the op was calling out cept you cheer for a different team as he put it. you're happy as long as someone from the other side gets owned. great post...leading by example

[lakers_forever]

the irony in this post is you're the exact type of person the op was calling out cept you cheer for a different team as he put it. you're happy as long as someone from the other side gets owned. great post...leading by example

WTF? No way. What side? I'm no democrat or republican. I'm not even american. I cheer when hypocrites from both sides got owned. I criticize both Obama and Bush. I see both Fox News and MSNBC as propaganda instruments. One for republicans and the other for democrats. I could care less about defending republicans or democrats.

EDIT: BTW, funny that in another thread, I got called a "democrat hypocrite" because of my opinion. I guess people are obsessed about "sides" here.. :D

[lakers_forever]

The thing is, I, as a neutral observer, can see the hypocrisy of a lot of americans (like those guys from MSNBC). If it was Bush (or any other republican) doing the same things Obama is (like killing american citizens never even charged of any crime and killing people abroad with little criteria), the pro-Obama crowd would (rightly so) be asking for his head, calling him a War Criminal and so on.

Like Cahill said, if McCain had won and was doing the same stuff Obama is, what do you think would be the reaction from MSNBC and democrat supporters?

[rufuspaul]

What's the over/under on how long this Starface gimmick will last?

[Nick Young]

The thing is, I, as a neutral observer, can see the hypocrisy of a lot of americans (like those guys from MSNBC). If it was Bush (or any other republican) doing the same things Obama is (like killing american citizens never even charged of any crime and killing people abroad with little criteria), the pro-Obama crowd would (rightly so) be asking for his head, calling him a War Criminal and so on.

Like Cahill said, if McCain had won and was doing the same stuff Obama is, what do you think would be the reaction from MSNBC and democrat supporters?
Exactly. I don't understand how 'liberal democrats' who claim to love peace and freedom and equality and fair trial can look at themselves in the mirror every day while championing Obama.

The democratic party in America is actually extremely moderate and conservative. It's annoying how smug most of them are do to their self-perceived 'progressiveness'.

[Akrazotile]

What's the over/under on how long this Starface gimmick will last?


:rolleyes:

You seem to be trying very hard to "out" my identity. Its already old news dude. I made a thread two weeks ago with my own picture in it.

[Derka]

You guys are spending all this time trashing the Presidency and completely ignoring the multiple ways in which the Congress, a far more powerful instrument of government power, have failed us.

Presidents don't wave magic wands and make things happen, no matter how many executive orders he/she wants to make. They have no force of law unless 1.) Congress explicitly delineates the power to the executive and 2.) it passes subsequent judicial review. Everything in our country's political system derives from the Congress.

I would wager anyone that a large portion of the people who slam Obama and Bush end over end probably couldn't tell you the names of their rep and senators without first having to look it up. Meanwhile, those reps and senators are the ones truly robbing the country blind.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

wait some people here actually think the USA are a democracy:wtf: :wtf: :biggums:

[rufuspaul]

:rolleyes:

You seem to be trying very hard to "out" my identity. Its already old news dude. I made a thread two weeks ago with my own picture in it.


Nah, just wondering when you're going to freak and flame out. Lather, rinse, repeat.

[DukeDelonte13]

Aslong is you think third parties are a joke nothing will change. Pluralism changes policies not 8 years of A followed by 8 years of B in all eternity. Vote for the green movement the next time, even if you think they're a joke, but if the get enough votes they two big parties have to reconsider what they do.


I shake my head a people that vote for a third party in a presidential election. It's a cop out. You might as well write your own name in. Accept the fact we live in a two party system. Multi-party systems aren't any better; in a lot of ways they are even worse. You think it's tough for 2 parties to agree on something? Imagine all the wheeling a dealing that needs to get done for sh*t to get passed in multi-party democracies.

Voting for a third or alternate party in local elections is a good thing though. But for the presidency? Nah.

[Akrazotile]

I shake my head a people that vote for a third party in a presidential election. It's a cop out. You might as well write your own name in. Accept the fact we live in a two party system. Multi-party systems aren't any better; in a lot of ways they are even worse. You think it's tough for 2 parties to agree on something? Imagine all the wheeling a dealing that needs to get done for sh*t to get passed in multi-party democracies.

Voting for a third or alternate party in local elections is a good thing though. But for the presidency? Nah.

You're added to the list.

[Akrazotile]

You guys are spending all this time trashing the Presidency and completely ignoring the multiple ways in which the Congress, a far more powerful instrument of government power, have failed us.

Presidents don't wave magic wands and make things happen, no matter how many executive orders he/she wants to make. They have no force of law unless 1.) Congress explicitly delineates the power to the executive and 2.) it passes subsequent judicial review. Everything in our country's political system derives from the Congress.

I would wager anyone that a large portion of the people who slam Obama and Bush end over end probably couldn't tell you the names of their rep and senators without first having to look it up. Meanwhile, those reps and senators are the ones truly robbing the country blind.


Completely concur. We get way too caught up in the President himself. I'll admit at times I too find it convenient to just blanket an administration's political components, which is largely the Congressional members of its party, under the President's name. But the language we use directly affects the way in which we think, I agree we should definitely make a push to start using the word "Congress" when we discuss the issues that typically are just dropped at the President's feet.

Part of the problem though is that people think the Congressmen where THEY live actually are representing them accurately, and it's the Congresspeople from areas of opposite political affiliations that cause all the log jam. In part, that's true. The population IS divided, in part because of who they listen to (the media) and their own human instinct to side up and compete. Cable news plays a big part of the issue now, as most people like KevinNYC just sit back and watch national news about the federal government, and then go online and play pretend msnbc pundit and argue about blue vs red. People need to focus LOCALLY first. When you have established some local consensuses, get active in state politics. Obviously to a degree you have to keep an eye on national politics as well but the truth is the federal government should NOT have as much power as we've given it. For most people it's simply "easier" to say ahh let the federal government make the decision rather than get their ass to a city council meeting or talk to their neighbors about issues. This comes at a PRICE. And unfortunately, we all end up having to pay it. If minorities are protected from the whims of 'majority rule' why should the few people who either earn, or pay attention, or participate suffer for the neglect and apathy of the masses? They shouldn't, and that's basically the main principle of libertarianism. True libertarianism is admittedly a pipe dream, the country could not be stable in a true 'every man for themself' system which is why we'll never have one. However, the BALANCE has gotten out of whack, and the intentional government subsidizing of initiative, analysis, effort, education (not school education, being informed) is doing a lot of harm to the future of our individual freedoms and ability to exist autonomously. But all the B-Low's out there who love Miley Cyrus and VMA Awards and the X-Factor and Hollywood superhero movies and will watch anything sporting even put on television etc. are too caught up in that shit to pay even an ounce of attention to how the fukcing world works. It's really brutal. There should be some sort of recourse, some sort of penalty. If we charge people who smoke more for health insurance because they're a greater risk, if we mandate seat belts because of the cost of scraping up people splatted on the road, we should charge idiots who don't even pay the SLIGHTEST attention to what's going on around them. They are costing everyone else.

[Rasheed1]

What's the over/under on how long this Starface gimmick will last?

a month.. he's already up to his old tricks …. The obsessive threads aimed at everyone who ever wiped their ass with him because honestly? thats the only thing those posters all have in common

:cheers:

[DeuceWallaces]

I don't think I ever made a Bush thread or even really talk about it. Starface is just a mega douche troll who's about to explode in another racist spam-fest that will get him banned again. You can see it building.

There's not much change the President can really do. To me, the president is about putting the right people on the supreme court and affecting domestic social issues like abortion, gay rights, health care, tax brackets etc. That's why I vote and that's what I think matters; in that regard he's done fine by my.

When congress and military contractors want war they will get it no matter who's in there.

[Nick Young]

I don't think I ever made a Bush thread or even really talk about it. Starface is just a mega douche troll who's about to explode in another racist spam-fest that will get him banned again. You can see it building.

There's not much change the President can really do. To me, the president is about putting the right people on the supreme court and affecting domestic social issues like abortion, gay rights, health care, tax brackets etc. That's why I vote and that's what I think matters; in that regard he's done fine by my.

When congress and military contractors want war they will get it no matter who's in there.
Dis blind Obama apologist doe:roll: :roll: :roll:

[TheMan]

Remember, when the country was ringing up a deficit, occupying the middle east, spying on its own citizens, the left used that as its battle cry to get the big meanie republican out of office and replace him with the noble, compassionate, populist democrat.

Come to find out, the issue the left cares the absolute most about, more than recessions and depressions, bloody wars and enormous debts, authoritarian power and personal intrusion... is gays in the military, gays being married, gays in restaurants, etc.

This is the only battle they've seemed interested in fighting since Obama took over and continued all of Bush's policies. Anything to wage war against the stupid intolerant redneck jerks over on the Republican side! Who has time to question their own party, right? Gotta go fight the opposition like mindless ants! Crushing debt? Who cares, there's a restaurant in an Arizona town who doesn't want to let gay customers in! So logically if you're an angry liberal in Massachusetts, you'd better scurry online and make that battle cry numero uno on the message boards!

Mind you, I honestly don't give a shit if gays get married or what they do. It's like democrats who AREN'T in unions crying out about union rights. What the **** is that battle up to you for?? Same things with gays and christians. Let them ****ing have it out on their own, and WORRY ABOUT WHAT MATTERS.

You ****ing idiots are going to allow this country to sink ever deeper, because you're so easily divided, so gullible, so shallow-minded, so weak and fragile, and so needy that every day we get fukced over by our own "leaders" and the special interests behind them, because Democrats have this insane desperation to play mommy over every little social issue. I mean this is outright ridiculous.

Less than a decade ago, the people who wanted the intolerant jerks out of office pretended like they cared about the lives of soldiers and arabs. Remember the death tallies they used to bring up every day? Where are those now!?!? Remember the .gifs of the national deficit and cost of war they kept posting with little clocks that kept it up to the minute? Where are those!?!?

Suddenly they don't care. How could they question Obama? They're not smart enough to think on their own. The whole time they "hated Bush" it was because they were told to. That's the only reason. Where is the questioning of his stunt double now? These people are afraid to go out on their own intellectually. They're born sheep. And when I say "these people" I mean YOU PEOPLE.

KevinNYC
Sarcastic
bagelred
Deucewallaces
kentatm
RMWG
KeylessEntry
RoseCity
niko
Blue&Orange
reppy
MavsSuperFan
crisoner
RedBlackAttack
Rasheed1
Knoe Itall
Laker4Lyfe
Droid101
DukeDelonte13

You ****ing simple minded morons who do nothing but cheer and bleet for your "side" and don't have a single clue why. Take your cue from the leaders, and give your self a gratifying pat on the back for being like "super smart and nice bc ur a democrat, yeah!"

Meanwhile, your lack of recognizing the real issues and priorities is what is contributing to our devolution from strong, independent, healthy state to an oppressive, fascist country with rapidly growing income disparity.


BUT AT LEAST THE GAYZ CAN GET MARRIED!!!!!





http://guardianlv.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Gay-Marriage-Should-Not-Be-a-Federal-Issue1.jpg



:banana:
Ok, MickJagger

[Akrazotile]

I don't think I ever made a Bush thread or even really talk about it. Starface is just a mega douche troll who's about to explode in another racist spam-fest that will get him banned again. You can see it building.

There's not much change the President can really do. To me, the president is about putting the right people on the supreme court and affecting domestic social issues like abortion, gay rights, health care, tax brackets etc. That's why I vote and that's what I think matters; in that regard he's done fine by my.

When congress and military contractors want war they will get it no matter who's in there.


Ill get to the rest of ur shitty post when Im on a laptop, but why would you want the federal government dictating abortion laws in every corner of the US? Let states do as they please and the results will lead to a copy cat mentality where other states follow suit when they see another one getting it rigt.

You are such an embarrassing, clueless, intellectual fugazi desparately trying to look like some pompous liberal genius when the truth is there is NEVER any substance to your drive-by bandwagoning. When the Dems took over you were hardcore Dem/liberal, now that its exposed it was a sham and being called out, youre switching to "Yeah I knew it was BS all along" like every other Democrat phony out there. You werent saying this stuff six years ago like others here. You wait for the discussion to play out than just parrot something to look smart. Try and bump one thread where you came out with an original opinion on the topic before it had been beaten to death. It wont happen. You are a pretender, you legitimately dont know SHIT besides plants. You arent cultured, youre not perceptive, youre not intelligent, you just make a cringeworthy attempt to come off as these things bc inside youre a marshmellow with no identity and no p3nis. FAKKIT.

[DeuceWallaces]

Hmmm, well you can spend your afternoon digging up my posts and threads I made bashing Bush on the war or Guantanamo Bay. I hope you have time before your next incoming ban.

I'm pretty sure you'll mostly find posts about health care, abortion, stem cells, civil rights, and funding for the sciences and arts, but good luck.

[Nick Young]

Ill get to the rest of ur shitty post when Im on a laptop, but why would you want the federal government dictating abortion laws in every corner of the US? Let states do as they please and the results will lead to a copy cat mentality where other states follow suit when they see another one getting it rigt.

You are such an embarrassing, clueless, intellectual fugazi desparately trying to look like some pompous liberal genius when the truth is there is NEVER any substance to your drive-by bandwagoning. When the Dems took over you were hardcore Dem/liberal, now that its exposed it was a sham and being called out, youre switching to "Yeah I knew it was BS all along" like every other Democrat phony out there. You werent saying this stuff six years ago like others here. You wait for the discussion to play out than just parrot something to look smart. Try and bump one thread where you came out with an original opinion on the topic before it had been beaten to death. It wont happen. You are a pretender, you legitimately dont know SHIT besides plants. You arent cultured, youre not perceptive, youre not intelligent, you just make a cringeworthy attempt to come off as these things bc inside youre a marshmellow with no identity and no p3nis. FAKKIT.
University of Central Michigan's finest doe:bowdown:

[DeuceWallaces]

I never went there.

[rufuspaul]

University of Central Michigan's finest doe:bowdown:


No match for Portola Middle School. :rolleyes:

[Nick Young]

No match for Portola Middle School. :rolleyes:
lol why you roll your eyes, portola was a great middle school, kid. Standards of education there probably about equal to the university Deucy went to.

[DeuceWallaces]

Lol I forgot about his middle school diploma. Oh, and his associates program in architecture. :oldlol:

[Nick Young]

Lol I forgot about his middle school diploma. Oh, and his associates program in architecture. :oldlol:
Architecture>forest playtime class doe:cheers:

[DeuceWallaces]

Aren't you in art school now? Don't worry, one of these days you'll grow up and join the real world. Or, maybe you're like Starface and his daddy; he never has to join the real world.

[Akrazotile]

Aren't you in art school now? Don't worry, one of these days you'll grow up and join the real world. Or, maybe you're like Starface and his daddy; he never has to join the real world.

Bro the real world is where men have to interact and sometimes butt heads or stand up on principles and confront each other or speak out about difficult issues and take what they need or their community needs. Thats the real world you cant hack it in, which is why you picked a career living in the woods studying the diameter of crabapples during the rainy season compared to the dry season u lil bitch.


Anybody could get a ****ing degree, in FORESTRY no less, if they take out a big loan and do homework assignments. That shit doesnt make a community strong. Fakkits like you who have to run and want to play nurse instead of soldier and then go cry in the forest when shit gets tough are the laughing stock of society.

[DeuceWallaces]

Most people meet others in college or at their job. You've done neither.

I don't think the people you meet in the unemployment line count.

[Akrazotile]

Most people meet others in college or at their job. You've done neither.

I don't think the people you meet in the unemployment line count.

Look at this hypocrisy.

If I said "people in the unemployment line dont count" youd be all up in politically correct arms. Prob even call me a racist. And when I say "call me a racist," I mean you would literally CALL me, and say "racist!" :oldlol:

If only you could direct your PMSing over me styling on you toward shit that actually matters, you could be a bonafide, respectible member of the male gender. Possibly. But alas youre either too soft or too stupid. Or both.

[DeuceWallaces]

I take it back. Maybe you have made deeply personal relationships at the unemployment offices, or at Western Union waiting for another wire transfer from your daddy. He must have been pissed when you called him with the hospital bill after getting beat up. You obviously have no insurance and you're too old to be carried under his.

[Rasheed1]

I take it back. Maybe you have made deeply personal relationships at the unemployment offices, or at Western Union waiting for another wire transfer from your daddy. He must have been pissed when you called him with the hospital bill after getting beat up. You obviously have no insurance and you're too old to be carried under his.


:roll: Starface: Free health care for me, but none for thee

[oarabbus]

Obama sucks, doesn't change the fact that Bush was a piece of **** worthless president as well. Don't understand the point of this.

[Akrazotile]

I take it back. Maybe you have made deeply personal relationships at the unemployment offices, or at Western Union waiting for another wire transfer from your daddy. He must have been pissed when you called him with the hospital bill after getting beat up. You obviously have no insurance and you're too old to be carried under his.


Ive never collected unemployment, real tawk, altho i believe u could talk to lamar doom bout that if you really want info. Dudes feedin his DOG on taxpayer dollars :confusedshrug:

And yessir, my parents helped me with expenses when I first moved to LA like six years ago. Since then Ive done tons of random shit to support myself including my well documented min wage audience gigs and handsomely paid medical trials. Also worked in a sausage factory in the middle of nowhere texas for a few weeks to make money in between moves. Ive lived in my car for literally months at a time tryin to save some of my money.

You can believe I am much more acquainted with the habits and lifestyle of the average and/or struggling American than you are. If everyday folks werent given control of their destiny, Id be the first one questioning and fighting the system. The truth is most people have no curiosity, ambition, initiative, motivation, or perspective. You cannot FORCE these things onto them. Like the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it have sex with you.

You sit there like a poser fakkit talkin bout how great socialism is. I have been in the trenches LIVING amongst the proles and I have seen exactly why it devolves into shit everywhere its attempted. Like I said, you are just a silly poser trying to cling to the rebellious alternative ideology bc you have no manhood to stake your claim on. Funny thing is even with ur degree, YOU actually depend on the govt more than I do bc thats how you get paid. You couldnt get paid in a world where the govt didnt shake down the middle class to buy votes from puzzies like you.

[Rasheed1]

Obama sucks, doesn't change the fact that Bush was a piece of **** worthless president as well. Don't understand the point of this.


The point is to lash out at all the mean posters who have handed star face his ass in the past..

Its step 3 on his serial path to meltdown and exile.. He does the same sh*t under every new name he creates

[Nick Young]

Obama sucks, doesn't change the fact that Bush was a piece of **** worthless president as well. Don't understand the point of this.
The point is both presidents were/are complete shit but for some reason Obama is getting free pass/a ton of excuses made for him in comparison to Bush despite being worse then Bush in basically every regard.

[Akrazotile]

Obama sucks, doesn't change the fact that Bush was a piece of **** worthless president as well. Don't understand the point of this.


Why were you and your ilk so much louder about it when Bush was in office? Like I said, where are the daily updates on war casualties? Where is the running clock of the deficit? Where is the outrage about domestic spying???

The most you can pry from Democrats now when they are CORNERED by the evidence is a begrudging "whatever, obama sucks too, there are you happy"

But when Obamas name was Bush, yall were SHRIEKING bloody murder about these policies.

What gives man?

[Stempel, HERB]

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]a month.. he's already up to his old tricks

[kentatm]

Don't understand the point of this.

I see that you started here in 2013.

This is simply a Starface (Akrazotile) jacking off to how much more enlightened his is than the rest of us thread.

He's been doing it for years.

[Rasheed1]

Everyone else has rightfully ignored you, so i'll clue you in. You have one of THE MOST embarrassing post histories on this site. From your unbelievably stupid conspiracy discussions that you even went so far as to get yourself a ban denying the holocaust. Your peers are the who's who of shitty posters, racists and morons. People like final.wraith. Neither side of this thread wants you. You're a joke. Everyone is laughing at you. The tired ass walking stereotype of an old head teaching these young n*ggas bout life is funny in the sense that I can't believe you're serious. You're old and that's a fact. But, you're out of touch and your words of wisdom shine a light on your stupidity and ignorance.


you seem to take my sh*ttin on star face awfully personal.. :lol hmmm

I never been banned in the 10+ years Ive been here HERB, so you are wrong right off the bat.. secondly.. I never denied the holocaust, so you need to either find where I did or cut the bullsh*t lies

If you think Im a joke? :confusedshrug: I don't care because your opinion means nothing.. you're a nobody here, always have been …. an alt.. that much is obvious..

I wouldn't ever take any advice from a coward who uses an alt to post what he cannot post otherwise..

:cheers: here's to you chump

[Nick Young]

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]you seem to take my sh*ttin on star face awfully personal.. :lol hmmm

I never been banned in the 10+ years Ive been here HERB, so you are wrong right off the bat.. secondly.. I never denied the holocaust, so you need to either find where I did or cut the bullsh*t lies

If you think Im a joke? :confusedshrug: I don't care because your opinion means nothing.. you're a nobody here, always have been

[Rasheed1]

Do you think Obama is a good president doe

NO

[oarabbus]

The point is both presidents were/are complete shit but for some reason Obama is getting free pass/a ton of excuses made for him in comparison to Bush despite being worse then Bush in basically every regard.


He does get tons of excuses made, and it's stupid. I'm saying this as a liberal living in the Bay Area as well, so I "should" be one of those people slobbing on Obama's nuts. I really don't know why people can't open their eyes to the fact that we elected George W. pt. II.

I'm not sure I'd say he's worse than Bush in every regard though. Almost as bad, just as bad, but I don't know about worse.

[Nick Young]

Lol listen to this "progressive liberal"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXDZ2AogetA

Does he sound any different from a hardcore warmongering republican? Nope. These same "progressive liberals" who were so against war when Bush was in office are no mongering for more wars simply because it's what Obama wants. Do they have zero self awareness?:confusedshrug:

[RidonKs]

if you bother to distinguish the progressive and proactive left from stagnant and reactionary bluedogs, there's nothing even worthy of discussion in this thread. where are they? jesus look around dude, THEY'RE EVERYWHERE. and they include a whole host of posters on this site you listed. clearly there's an extreme interpretive bias going on here.

the real left wing prides itself on incorporating into its cause an array narrower interests like labour, environmentalism, second/third world solidarity, feminism/lgbt movements, not to mention fueling criticism of the status quo economic system and offering a whole host of alternative economic strategies. perhaps that fragmentation has been the reason for its steady decline as plenty of people hypothesize -- tho i don't believe that -- but its still the truth.

the obvious subtext of this thread is that starface doesn't pay attention to the left wing. his only real mode of interaction with it is a goddamn message board. he has no understanding of its underlying values, its broadly stated goals, of the limited arenas it has managed to occupy and maintain over a long history throughout which it has been pummeled to a bloody pulp by power interests be they kings, aristocrats, merchants, prime ministers, ceo's, whoever. he doesn't associate with it, so when he talks about it, he sounds like an idiot.

it would be as if i were to create a thread titled "wait, what happened to all the hypocrite heat fans?" after spending a weekend in oklahoma city and going to a thunder game. this is how political information gets processed by dogmatic nuts like starface and nick young and pat chewing and that crazed longhorn dude -- they synthesize it an absurdly simplistic narrative that has no relation to the real world. they aren't stupid. they just have an extremely narrow focus and refuse to pay attention to anything outside it.

[mr.big35]

Lol listen to this "progressive liberal"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXDZ2AogetA

Does he sound any different from a hardcore warmongering republican? Nope. These same "progressive liberals" who were so against war when Bush was in office are no mongering for more wars simply because it's what Obama wants. Do they have zero self awareness?:confusedshrug:

Jeremy Scahill is a true liberal that dont support war like Ed Schultz

[Nick Young]

if you bother to distinguish the progressive and proactive left from stagnant and reactionary bluedogs, there's nothing even worthy of discussion in this thread. where are they? jesus look around dude, THEY'RE EVERYWHERE. and they include a whole host of posters on this site you listed. clearly there's an extreme interpretive bias going on here.

the real left wing prides itself on incorporating into its cause an array narrower interests like labour, environmentalism, second/third world solidarity, feminism/lgbt movements, not to mention fueling criticism of the status quo economic system and offering a whole host of alternative economic strategies. perhaps that fragmentation has been the reason for its steady decline as plenty of people hypothesize -- tho i don't believe that -- but its still the truth.

the obvious subtext of this thread is that starface doesn't pay attention to the left wing. his only real mode of interaction with it is a goddamn message board. he has no understanding of its underlying values, its broadly stated goals, of the limited arenas it has managed to occupy and maintain over a long history throughout which it has been pummeled to a bloody pulp by power interests be they kings, aristocrats, merchants, prime ministers, ceo's, whoever. he doesn't associate with it, so when he talks about it, he sounds like an idiot.

it would be as if i were to create a thread titled "wait, what happened to all the hypocrite heat fans?" after spending a weekend in oklahoma city and going to a thunder game. this is how political information gets processed by dogmatic nuts like starface and nick young and pat chewing and that crazed longhorn dude -- they synthesize it an absurdly simplistic narrative that has no relation to the real world. they aren't stupid. they just have an extremely narrow focus and refuse to pay attention to anything outside it.
The American left wing is no different from the American right wing. Your sense of liberal smugness and self percieved elitism saddens me.

[Akrazotile]

if you bother to distinguish the progressive and proactive left from stagnant and reactionary bluedogs, there's nothing even worthy of discussion in this thread. where are they? jesus look around dude, THEY'RE EVERYWHERE. and they include a whole host of posters on this site you listed. clearly there's an extreme interpretive bias going on here.

the real left wing prides itself on incorporating into its cause an array narrower interests like labour, environmentalism, second/third world solidarity, feminism/lgbt movements, not to mention fueling criticism of the status quo economic system and offering a whole host of alternative economic strategies. perhaps that fragmentation has been the reason for its steady decline as plenty of people hypothesize -- tho i don't believe that -- but its still the truth.

the obvious subtext of this thread is that starface doesn't pay attention to the left wing. his only real mode of interaction with it is a goddamn message board. he has no understanding of its underlying values, its broadly stated goals, of the limited arenas it has managed to occupy and maintain over a long history throughout which it has been pummeled to a bloody pulp by power interests be they kings, aristocrats, merchants, prime ministers, ceo's, whoever. he doesn't associate with it, so when he talks about it, he sounds like an idiot.

it would be as if i were to create a thread titled "wait, what happened to all the hypocrite heat fans?" after spending a weekend in oklahoma city and going to a thunder game. this is how political information gets processed by dogmatic nuts like starface and nick young and pat chewing and that crazed longhorn dude -- they synthesize it an absurdly simplistic narrative that has no relation to the real world. they aren't stupid. they just have an extremely narrow focus and refuse to pay attention to anything outside it.


Oh lawd, another of this guys grandiloquent diatribes. Hang on man, let me get my steel-toes, pick axe, shovel, and some TNT and I'll be right back and to try and tackle what your post is attempting to actually say without all its "teacher! teacher! look how i can write!" verbosity :facepalm

Give me a few hours an I'll get back to you on it.

[Dresta]

if you bother to distinguish the progressive and proactive left from stagnant and reactionary bluedogs, there's nothing even worthy of discussion in this thread. where are they? jesus look around dude, THEY'RE EVERYWHERE. and they include a whole host of posters on this site you listed. clearly there's an extreme interpretive bias going on here.

the real left wing prides itself on incorporating into its cause an array narrower interests like labour, environmentalism, second/third world solidarity, feminism/lgbt movements, not to mention fueling criticism of the status quo economic system and offering a whole host of alternative economic strategies. perhaps that fragmentation has been the reason for its steady decline as plenty of people hypothesize -- tho i don't believe that -- but its still the truth.

the obvious subtext of this thread is that starface doesn't pay attention to the left wing. his only real mode of interaction with it is a goddamn message board. he has no understanding of its underlying values, its broadly stated goals, of the limited arenas it has managed to occupy and maintain over a long history throughout which it has been pummeled to a bloody pulp by power interests be they kings, aristocrats, merchants, prime ministers, ceo's, whoever. he doesn't associate with it, so when he talks about it, he sounds like an idiot.


Could you please elaborate on this? Because i am intrigued to learn what this 'real left wing' actually is, and why you have the right to define it as the things you agree with. If you could please list this 'whole host of alternative economic strategies' then that would be great, because i have never seen a remotely viable one offered from a socialist. It's amusing that left-wingers are so reliant on capital that the only alternative they propose to capitalism is placing all capital under the control of the state, rectifying the evil of monopoly by creating one big mega-monopoly. Most of the left-wingers i meet tend to be like the fools at the OWS protests: clowns without a clue, completely devoid of argument and constantly appealing to emotion, a bit like these guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjRTvX-wbtU (fast forward to 6mins if you fancy a laugh). 'sweatshop like conditions with not enough hours' :lol - Jesus Christ.

How can you be 'left-wing' without realising that left-wing policies have been triumphing progressively for the past century, and yet the 'left' remains as far from achieving its goals as ever? The left are perpetual clamourers, always demanding more concessions with each generation, and then when these concessions fail to bring about the changes they desired they demand further concessions, and appeal to political necessity to get them. And of course, because each new generation instantly allies itself to the left (because youth and ill-informed social concern go hand-in-hand), and because they are thoroughly ignorant of history, they blame the ills and 'necessities' created by the policies of their predecessors on vague boogiemen like 'the corporations' or 'dat 1%' etc. Tedious really.

I find it remarkable that someone like Hayek could correctly predict the outcome of these social policies, and then when his predictions turned out to be correct, to be told by the next generation that this was not because of those policies, but because those policies didn't go far enough to combat the 'evil corporations' or whatever. Alas, it's such a fanciful delusion that the state can rationally construct society (based on philosophical fallacies no less) that it's no surprise that it appeals so strongly to the combination of ignorance and idealism commonly found in youth.

[RidonKs]

Could you please elaborate on this? Because i am intrigued to learn what this 'real left wing' actually is
actually kinda funny that you say that because as i was writing the part you bolded i initially started writing a parenthesized analogy to "hip hop realists" and how the last thing i want to do is sound like them... which i suppose i do. i erased it because it was besides the point. regardless, the distinction i'm drawing is all too simple and its one starface doesn't seem to understand. it was the first sentence in my "grandiloquent diatribe" that he now needs to dedicate a few hours to unraveling.

its between partisan Democrats on the one hand and the "real" left wing. and don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to say left wing can be defined concretely without any ambiguity whatsoever. but there's certainly enough of a history in the concept to distinguish between partisan hacks who see the whole thing as a competitive game ("the gop scored a big win today! etc"), celebrity worshipers who pay attention to insignificant pablem ("what kind of soup did pelosi eat for lunch???"), and i dunno who else but you get the point. the fact that nick young posted a video of ed shultz and called him a progressive liberal because dude happens to work for msnbc perfectly demonstrates how he and others engage in conversations by dumbing down issues and stereotyping parties.

whatever you want to call it, the liberal/progressive/leftist/[insert placeholder here] disposition


why do so many left wingers sound dumb and naive and like pie in the sky dreamers who have either failed or achieved only mediocrity in the real world? well thats a huge question that you can't exactly answer on a message board. undoubtedly its factual basis is accurate. these are typically the have-nots or the outcasts who for about a million different reasons didn't "succeed". but the question isnt why didnt they succeed but rather why do they sound silly talking about politics?

a significant factor imo is that the mainstream media is geared not only to sensationalism and simplicity, but more importantly also maintains a tight framework of assumptions that typically lies to the right of the general public's opinions. thus, only radically active leftists who are willing and able to go outside the mainstream sources of information (whether public or corporate) to gather alternative perspectives will sound like they have a clue. people with a generally left wing disposition who aren't proactive in their politics will sound nutty and dumb because their sources of information, all of which proclaim total objectivity, wind up confusing them. and that's because they don't actually reflect their honest values. and that's all more or less a paraphrase of manufacturing consent btw. tho i'm pontificating at this point so i'll stop.



How can you be 'left-wing' without realising that left-wing policies have been triumphing progressively for the past century, and yet the 'left' remains as far from achieving its goals as ever? The left are perpetual clamourers
but slowly. always extremely slowly. and almost always as a result of massive discontent and civil unrest. from the very first democratic revolutions upto right this very moment as dissatisfaction in the neoliberalism and pending climate disaster seep deeper and deeper into the public consciousness. the clamouring is usually the beginning of cultural change. and of course sometimes hyperbole takes over (like in the video you posted), the vision goes too far and becomes completely impractical or whatever else. sometimes the ideals are highjacked by groups who pervert them and turn them into nightmares (see: 20th century communism). plenty of people would claim that recent experience demonstrates that left wing politics inevitably lead to totalitarianism. i think the problem with that statement is a real misunderstanding in defining "left wing" -- which is what we're talking about.




as for economic alternatives, they're out there. a couple perfectly obvious examples spring to mind. the trade union is literally at its lowest point maybe in american history... canada (my home) is a bit better but trending in the same direction. unionization is down from like 35% to 9% if i remember correctly... that's not incidental and it doesn't automatically lead to the conclusion that "unions dont work!". there's a lot more to it.

worker and consumer cooperatives are other obvious examples that have stepped outside the box and democratized their workforces. the next step would seem to me to include the rest of the stakeholders of an organization in its decision-making... primarily the people who live nearby. there are a variety of technical ways to organize such a principle.

social enterprises are a type of non-profit that have two bottom lines. a fiscal one on which its survival depends and a social mission that is its raison detre.

and then there are more academic/theoretical concepts that have been on the rise lately. community economic development is a really broadly defined concept/trend that i've been personally involved in. i wouldn't say it's a definitive alternative to corporatism but its a set of ideas through which really important local work can thrive.

one thats very much worth checking out that goes into a ton of monotonous everyday life detail is "participatory economics" written by the guy who's been running Z Magazine for like 30 years or something (great source of alternative perspective on american and world affairs) and an economist friend of his. to quote the wiki page, its an anarchist economic vision... i won't go into detail here.

one i just came across randomly on a philosophy podcast is called "new work", brainchild of frietjoff bergman or something like that. the idea essentially boils down to work/job sharing while simultaneously pursuing ones own passions. that of course sounds idealistic because i summed it up in a sentence. but again, if you want to take the time, its worth looking into.

another book i'd highly recommend thats for the public but still a little technical (and therefore over my head) is called "The Resilience Imperative". it does a great job laying out concrete alternative models in a variety of areas from housing to farming to hi tech industry etc, it even ventures into currencies and monetary policy which i reckon you'd grasp and be able to critically engage with better than me

those are some examples and you'd have to be hopelessly naive to believe there were dozens of others. again this shit is everywhere


as for expansion of the state to rectify the evils of expanding private power centers like the biggest financial institutions or industrial conglomerates of our time.... i think/hope people properly understand that the state is a stepping stone in rectification, and not without its only risks of course. but states are at least under nominal public control and somewhat responsive to public opinion. private organizations are only very minimally and indirectly responsive to public control. they respond to capital, their board members, and ceo's... all of which are intricately connected. this is what we would call a comparison between the lesser of two evils.

traditional anarchism rejects the american government as much as it rejects boeing. but it has to be pragmatic just like the rest of us, and since a popular revolution isn't exactly on the cusp, reform is the only reliable option.



sorry to ramble on, nobody will read this far and as i type this i suppose i'm realizing what a waste of time it all is to discuss stuff on ish, but these asinine dichotomies and simplistic narratives just drive me crazy and make me want to rant.

[Akrazotile]

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