Who Would Win: Flash or Goku

[Rodmantheman]

bump

[Jameerthefear]

Am I going to have to win this argument again?

[Rodmantheman]

No need to bump. Clearly goku has won.

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/227/5/f/5f34f9678c464859f75d85892516cedd-d3e1xkt.gif

[riseagainst]

can flash dodge a spirit bomb? assuming he just stands there for 5 episodes letting goku charge it up.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Flash is dope, but underutilized from what I can tell. Goku wins.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Oooooooo! I've always heard the Goku v Superman one, but this one is interesting. I need some timem to think about it.

I haven't seen the most recent DBZ film. Is that considered cannon?

[Jameerthefear]

Oooooooo! I've always heard the Goku v Superman one, but this one is interesting. I need some timem to think about it.

I haven't seen the most recent DBZ film. Is that considered cannon?
I couldn't tell ya.

[Timmy D for MVP]

I couldn't tell ya.

Hmm... gonna have to brush up on Flash feats. So are we to presume they just run into each other and for some reason just start fighting.

[Jameerthefear]

Hmm... gonna have to brush up on Flash feats. So are we to presume they just run into each other and for some reason just start fighting.
Yup. No prep time and fight in space. Railgun is my alt. I'm the big Flash fan and I don't see how Goku beats him.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Yup. No prep time and fight in space. Railgun is my alt. I'm the big Flash fan and I don't see how Goku beats him.

Okay, as the big Flash fan, is there a limit to Flash's force when hitting an opponent at certain speeds? Just like you can only inflict x amount of force before particular objects just can't take it anymore?

[Jameerthefear]

Okay, as the big Flash fan, is there a limit to Flash's force when hitting an opponent at certain speeds? Just like you can only inflict x amount of force before particular objects just can't take it anymore?
Like how hard can he hit someone?

[KyrieTheFuture]

Can Flash survive in space?

[Jameerthefear]

Glad you bumped this so you can now admit to everyone in the open that flash can be hit by bullets whereas goku couldn't in the original dragonball where he was billions of times weaker than DBZ goku and trillions at least than GT goku.
Flash>>Goku
Flash only gets hit when he allows himself to :oldlol:

[Jameerthefear]

Can Flash survive in space?
Ya.

[Jameerthefear]

So you admit he's so weak he has been hit by bullets.
Just admit it maggie. Flash>>Goku.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Like how hard can he hit someone?

Correct. For example you can only exert a certain amount of force on projectiles before they can no longer hold together. A plastic bullet can only exert a certain amount of force before it rips apart on contact, versus a metal bullet.

EDIT: Lemme just make that more simple: What is Flash's greatest strength feat?

[KyrieTheFuture]

Itachi Uchiha > Flash

[Jameerthefear]

Correct. For example you can only exert a certain amount of force on projectiles before they can no longer hold together. A plastic bullet can only exert a certain amount of force before it rips apart on contact, versus a metal bullet.

EDIT: Lemme just make that more simple: What is Flash's greatest strength feat?

Infinite mass punch - Introduced in Grant Morrison's JLA title. Flash (Wally West), traveling near the speed of light acquired the relativistic mass of such speed to impart blows which could hit with the force of "a white dwarf star," enabling him to knock down such powerful foes as the White Martians with a single punch. Flash's own durability is regulated by the Speed Force in such cases.
^^

[Jameerthefear]

Itachi Uchiha > Flash
If Itachi gets off mangekyou then maybe. Can't remember exactly if any characters have gotten out of it.

[Jameerthefear]

Jam is convinced a guy who has defeated someone who blows up the universe is going to get killed by a guy who almost died from a bullet
:biggums:
How dumb do you think we are jam? We're not falling for this troll!
:yaohappy: get mad maggie

[Jameerthefear]

Flash so weak he died because he couldn't take a blast that was intended to blow up the earth. You know how many blasts they take in DBZ that would blow up a planet? Its like the tenth episode of the show that someone blows up the moon!
>implying Goku could hit Flash
>:yaohappy:

[Timmy D for MVP]

Mkay, so it is Wally West, and in space he can run these speeds? How many times has that happened and how quick was he to make the decision to do so? Does this deplete him to do so?

[Jameerthefear]

Speed Force allows him to run as fast as he wants.
Also this:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/5/56369/1271384-hitmach.jpg

[Timmy D for MVP]

I have to be convinced that he can prep and perform his IMP in space before Goku can counteract.

This is why it's important to know how many times this has been performed, how long he fought before doing this, and the viability of him performing it in space.

I'm torn on this one.

[Jameerthefear]

I have to be convinced that he can prep and perform his IMP in space before Goku can counteract.

This is why it's important to know how many times this has been performed, how long he fought before doing this, and the viability of him performing it in space.

I'm torn on this one.
As long as he's going lightspeed he can do an IMP

[Timmy D for MVP]

How many times has he done it? Can he run in space with nothing to push against?

Here's my thing. Goku as a kid was able to create two after images of himself by just moving fast. In his base form on Namek he dodged an attack so fast that observers thought it just went through him. Both of these require severe speed approaching light speed. He does have the ability to travel faster than light, albeit in a roundabout way with Instant Transmission. His speed feats are really tough to measure since there aren't really any concrete measures in his Universe. Straight forward speed is less important than hand to hand speed.

The more I think about it the more I think it's a moot argument unless it can be proved that The Flash can deliver an IMP on a whim, in space, and would do so immediately. Goku isn't smart in a traditional sense but he is a very good fighter and tactician. The longer the fight goes the worse off it is for his opponent. Especially so in this case because he gets exponentially more powerful with each progressive form. If he decides to take it to SSJ3 it makes him all the more dangerous. And with comparing speed the hardest part of the process and that's the main crux, I can see why I've never heard this match up before. We can just talk in circles.

The Flash won't be able to damage him with normal attacks.

So Jameer if you can prove to me that the IMP is something he can just bust out in space with nothing to run against and would do so, then sure Flash wins. Otherwise I'm not so sure.

[zoom17]

Can Saiyans breathe in space?

[Timmy D for MVP]

Can Saiyans breathe in space?

Yes. Well it's unclear if they can breathe in space or just survive in it for long periods of time.

The Bardock movie shows he and many others facing Frieza in space. Vegeta and Nappa destroy a planet while standing outside their ship. I've seen trailers of the new movie and he fights in space so...

Let me see if I can find a good version of that movie and watch it and go from there since there's a new form.

Interestingly based on the canon I'm familiar with Gohan is actually the strongest non-fused Z fighter.

[iamgine]

How many times has he done it? Can he run in space with nothing to push against?

Here's my thing. Goku as a kid was able to create two after images of himself by just moving fast. In his base form on Namek he dodged an attack so fast that observers thought it just went through him. Both of these require severe speed approaching light speed. He does have the ability to travel faster than light, albeit in a roundabout way with Instant Transmission. His speed feats are really tough to measure since there aren't really any concrete measures in his Universe. Straight forward speed is less important than hand to hand speed.

The more I think about it the more I think it's a moot argument unless it can be proved that The Flash can deliver an IMP on a whim, in space, and would do so immediately. Goku isn't smart in a traditional sense but he is a very good fighter and tactician. The longer the fight goes the worse off it is for his opponent. Especially so in this case because he gets exponentially more powerful with each progressive form. If he decides to take it to SSJ3 it makes him all the more dangerous. And with comparing speed the hardest part of the process and that's the main crux, I can see why I've never heard this match up before. We can just talk in circles.

The Flash won't be able to damage him with normal attacks.

So Jameer if you can prove to me that the IMP is something he can just bust out in space with nothing to run against and would do so, then sure Flash wins. Otherwise I'm not so sure.
Flash always wins in theory.

Goku could never approach Flash's speed. Although both characters' speed feats are written somewhat inconsistently, Flash's speed feats constantly dwarves Goku's by a lot.

Instant transmission, although the movement itself is instant, its prep is not. It requires Goku to think of a place. That in itself makes it way way slower than Flash.

In theory, Goku's brain could never have even sense Flash, let alone touch him. And that alone makes Flash cannot lose.

[KOBE143]

Flash is like LeBron.. He need many authors to make him looks strong.. Goku is like Kobe, he only need one author "Akira Toriyama" to make him strong.. Just like Kobe need only 1 allstar to win championship while LeBron needs multiple allstars and HOF just to win cheap ring..

So Goku win this and its not even close..

[Timmy D for MVP]

Flash always wins in theory.

Goku could never approach Flash's speed. Although both characters' speed feats are written somewhat inconsistently, Flash's speed feats constantly dwarves Goku's by a lot.

Instant transmission, although the movement itself is instant, its prep is not. It requires Goku to think of a place. That in itself makes it way way slower than Flash.

In theory, Goku's brain could never have even sense Flash, let alone touch him. And that alone makes Flash cannot lose.

Okay again I'm not convinced that his practical fight speed feats dwarf Goku's. That scan up there where the dude punches through Flash is identical to when Goku dodged an attack where it went through him.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Super Saiyan God Goku is canon, but I believe 4 other saiyans need to be present for it to work. At least that's the way it was the first time he tried, not sure if he can go SSJG whenever. But SSJG gave him the power to fight amongst a God of Destruction, who pretty much took out every character in the dragonball universe using only a pair of chopsticks, with one hand tied behind his back.

:biggums:

I really need to watch that shit.

[Jameerthefear]

Okay again I'm not convinced that his practical fight speed feats dwarf Goku's. That scan up there where the dude punches through Flash is identical to when Goku dodged an attack where it went through him.
Flash is multiple trillion times the speed of light. He's as fast as he wants to be. Goku doesn't come close.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Flash is multiple trillion times the speed of light. He's as fast as he wants to be. Goku doesn't come close.

You aren't doing a good job of counter arguing.

Would you argue that those feats I mentioned from Goku would demonstrate practical lateral speeds in excess of LS? Because if we determine that he can move his limbs that fast it becomes a problem.

[Jameerthefear]

You aren't doing a good job of counter arguing.

Would you argue that those feats I mentioned from Goku would demonstrate practical lateral speeds in excess of LS? Because if we determine that he can move his limbs that fast it becomes a problem.
Because I hate arguing the same thing over again since we addressed speed feats earlier in the thread. There is simply no reason to even argue speed feats anymore because no matter what Flash is just faster.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Because I hate arguing the same thing over again since we addressed speed feats earlier in the thread. There is simply no reason to even argue speed feats anymore because no matter what Flash is just faster.

Okay... extra words confuse you.

Do you argue the Goku feats?

[Jameerthefear]

Okay... extra words confuse you.

Do you argue the Goku feats?
Which ones am I arguing?

[Timmy D for MVP]

Which ones am I arguing?

The after image trick which he an multiple characters can do in DB, and the lowest ends of the ability level in canon.

And his ability to dodge an attack in a manner in which it just goes through him, which occurred for sure when fighting the Ginyu force and possibly other times. Again at base form.

[Jameerthefear]

How many times has he done it? Can he run in space with nothing to push against?

Here's my thing. Goku as a kid was able to create two after images of himself by just moving fast. In his base form on Namek he dodged an attack so fast that observers thought it just went through him. Both of these require severe speed approaching light speed. He does have the ability to travel faster than light, albeit in a roundabout way with Instant Transmission. His speed feats are really tough to measure since there aren't really any concrete measures in his Universe. Straight forward speed is less important than hand to hand speed.

The more I think about it the more I think it's a moot argument unless it can be proved that The Flash can deliver an IMP on a whim, in space, and would do so immediately. Goku isn't smart in a traditional sense but he is a very good fighter and tactician. The longer the fight goes the worse off it is for his opponent. Especially so in this case because he gets exponentially more powerful with each progressive form. If he decides to take it to SSJ3 it makes him all the more dangerous. And with comparing speed the hardest part of the process and that's the main crux, I can see why I've never heard this match up before. We can just talk in circles.

The Flash won't be able to damage him with normal attacks.

So Jameer if you can prove to me that the IMP is something he can just bust out in space with nothing to run against and would do so, then sure Flash wins. Otherwise I'm not so sure.
Oh okay this is easy then.

First part, yes. The speed force allows him to do this.

Second part
The simple fact of the matter is that there isn't anything to measure Goku's speed. Even if we did we both know from feats that he's magnitudes slower. He simply doesn't have the feats Flash does, so it's 100% correct to say he can't go that fast. Afterimage isn't really even an issue since no one in the DBZ universe approaches Flash in speed. I posted a scan earlier of Flash using the IMP on whim. He even states himself that he could have done 1,000 more before the martian even blinked. If that isn't a direct way to tell he can throw one at any moment I'm not sure what is. If one IMP took down a guy with superman-level endurance then it sure as hell will take down Goku. If not one than many will. It doesn't really matter how strong Goku gets because he simply can't hit him.

I guess if you bring in personalities you could say Flash wouldn't hit him right off the bat which is true, but Goku isn't going in for the kill so easily either.

[Timmy D for MVP]

And this is my point exactly. It is almost impossible to determine speed feats in the DBZ Universe and that is the crux of this argument. Given that Goku is a Superman level character, and Flash has been written on occasions to be both above and below Supes I feel like this particular match-up is not one that can be argued. You can argue this part of Flash canon, whereas I can argue another.

You said yourself there is no way to determine Goku's speed and then immediately said but it's not at Flash's level. I would tend to agree, and I would tend to favor Flash, but I can't say for certain either way since feats work differently in both worlds.

This is why the Anime/manga draft we tried to do fell apart. It's too difficult to define certain things.

[Jameerthefear]

And this is my point exactly. It is almost impossible to determine speed feats in the DBZ Universe and that is the crux of this argument. Given that Goku is a Superman level character, and Flash has been written on occasions to be both above and below Supes I feel like this particular match-up is not one that can be argued. You can argue this part of Flash canon, whereas I can argue another.

You said yourself there is no way to determine Goku's speed and then immediately said but it's not at Flash's level. I would tend to agree, and I would tend to favor Flash, but I can't say for certain either way since feats work differently in both worlds.

This is why the Anime/manga draft we tried to do fell apart. It's too difficult to define certain things.
That's dumb though. We CAN determine Goku is slower. Feats determine that. By the same instance I could say Naruto is faster than Flash or something ridiculous like that. I didn't want to bring up this argument, but Flash doesn't really have a "max" speed. He's as fast as he wants to be.

[Timmy D for MVP]

That's dumb though. We CAN determine Goku is slower. Feats determine that. By the same instance I could say Naruto is faster than Flash or something ridiculous like that. I didn't want to bring up this argument, but Flash doesn't really have a "max" speed. He's as fast as he wants to be.

But his practical speed seems to be comparable no? We have to assume it's possible he can fight, not just move, but fight at multiple FTL speeds in higher forms right?

Given that Goku can IT he can also in theory be as fast as he wants to be. Shit in theory he could IT and just blow up what ever solar system he was currently in. Actual stated ability is less important than written ability, and tendencies. And that is where it all breaks down.

Let's do this. Where do you stand on Supes v. Goku?

[Jameerthefear]

But his practical speed seems to be comparable no? We have to assume it's possible he can fight, not just move, but fight at multiple FTL speeds in higher forms right?

Given that Goku can IT he can also in theory be as fast as he wants to be. Shit in theory he could IT and just blow up what ever solar system he was currently in. Actual stated ability is less important than written ability, and tendencies. And that is where it all breaks down.

Let's do this. Where do you stand on Supes v. Goku?
Just the fact that he has to think makes him slower than Flash.

As far Supes vs. Goku I'm on Supe's side.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Just the fact that he has to think makes him slower than Flash.

As far Supes vs. Goku I'm on Supe's side.

Mkay and what determines Superman's victory?

[TheReal Kendall]

Can you explain how Deathstroke managed to kill Flash so easily?

[Jameerthefear]

Can you explain how Deathstroke managed to kill Flash so easily?
plot induced stupidity.

[Jameerthefear]

Mkay and what determines Superman's victory?
Couldn't go in depth. Out of what I've read on other forums Supe's heat vision is key though. I don't read any superman comics though.

[KyrieTheFuture]

It's just classic Jameer that he's a god damn Flash stan

[iamgine]

Okay again I'm not convinced that his practical fight speed feats dwarf Goku's. That scan up there where the dude punches through Flash is identical to when Goku dodged an attack where it went through him.
It doesn't matter what his fight speed is because Goku's speed are so far below him.

Unless you think Flash's practical fight speed is millions of times slower than his non-fight speed (which would make no sense).

Of course, Flash's easy victory is all in theory based on his abilities. Based on how writers usually write them, Goku would've won easily.