Open Court: NBA 50 Greatest & The Next 10

[bizil]

Who carried the franchise? Was it one of the Davis Boys? Rik Smits? Derrick McKey/Detlef Schremphf? Mark Jackson? Jalen Rose? Chris Mullin? Travis Best? The great Vern Feming? It wasn't the guy making multiple all-star teams, multiple all-nba teams, 1994 and 1996 Team USA member? 2012 Hall of Famer inductee?

I agree! Miller for sure was a superstar caliber player and carried that franchise. What people fail to realize is the fact that Miller was putting up 25 pointa a night early in his career. As time went on and the Pacers added talent, he became more of a floor spacer and his scoring took a hit. But when it was time to takeover a game scoring down stretch in the clutch, Miller was as deadly as any SG in that era other than MJ.

I'm ok with those who think SG's such as Drexler and Richmond were better peak wise. But Miller at his best was a superstar level player and THE PREMIER SHOOTER of his era. Just like West was in his, Bird was in his, Ray Ray was in his, and Curry is now. And his total resume dictates he's a top 10 GOAT SG. For the record, the only three guards with more career points than Miller are MJ, Kobe, and Big O.

[L.Kizzle]

I agree! Miller for sure was a superstar caliber player and carried that franchise. What people fail to realize is the fact that Miller was putting up 25 pointa a night early in his career. As time went on and the Pacers added talent, he became more of a floor spacer and his scoring took a hit. But when it was time to takeover a game scoring down stretch in the clutch, Miller was as deadly as any SG in that era other than MJ.

I'm ok with those who think SG's such as Drexler and Richmond were better peak wise. But Miller at his best was a superstar level player and THE PREMIER SHOOTER of his era. Just like West was in his, Bird was in his, Ray Ray was in his, and Curry is now. And his total resume dictates he's a top 10 GOAT SG. For the record, the only three guards with more career points than Miller are MJ, Kobe, and Big O.
True he was also shafted from many All Star games. Guys like Kenny Anderson Michael Adams and John Starks got in over him in various years. As did Chris Webber.

[Kblaze8855]

Who carried the franchise? Was it one of the Davis Boys? Rik Smits? Derrick McKey/Detlef Schremphf? Mark Jackson? Jalen Rose? Chris Mullin? Travis Best? The great Vern Feming? It wasn't the guy making multiple all-star teams, multiple all-nba teams, 1994 and 1996 Team USA member? 2012 Hall of Famer inductee?

Not every team that wins is carried by an individual.

There are too many examples to bother listing.

The pacers are one such team.

The Pacers have not really had a player carry them in 25 years or more.

[Smoke117]

Reggie Miller was never close to being a superstar and he didn't carry shit.

[L.Kizzle]

Who are these players who carry teams?

[Round Mound]

Reggie Miller was never close to being a superstar and he didn't carry shit.

Agree. He Was a Clutch and Great Shooter But Thats All He Was Good At. He Wasn`t a Defender, A Rebounder, A Passer a Creator of Offense. He Spot Up Shooter Thats It.

[Smoke117]

Who are these players who carry teams?

David Robinson. The Spurs go from 21 wins, 23rd in offense, 13th in defense in 89 to 56 wins 13th in offense, 3rd in defense in 90 his rookie season.

In 96 the Spurs win 59 and are 9th in offense and 3rd in defense, In 97 when Robinson only plays 7 games they win 20 games, fall to 27th in offense and dead last at 29 in defense. Sean Elliott only playing 39 games obviously was another reason they fell offensively, but he didn't matter defensively. I've always said Robinson esd the real DPOY in 96...having given it to Payton over him is a complete joke. They went from 3rd in defense to dead last because of ONE PLAYER.

[L.Kizzle]

David Robinson. The Spurs go from 21 wins, 23rd in offense, 13th in defense in 89 to 56 wins 13th in offense, 3rd in defense in 90 his rookie season.

In 96 the Spurs win 59 and are 9th in offense and 3rd in defense, In 97 when Robinson only plays 7 games they win 20 games, fall to 27th in offense and dead last at 29 in defense. Sean Elliott only playing 39 games obviously was another reason they fell offensively, but he didn't matter defensively. I've always said Robinson esd the real DPOY in 96...having given it to Payton over him is a complete joke. They went from 3rd in defense to dead last because of ONE PLAYER.
Are you serious. Everyone knows Robinson >>> Miller. But just cause a player wasn't top 5-10 doesn't mean he didn't carry his team.

[tpols]

Next 10 should just be a list of the best players since 1996:

Lebron
Kobe
Duncan
Garnett
Dirk
Wade

(in some order)

then:

5 of Durant Melo Carter McGrady Nash Kidd Pau Payton Paul Pierce Allen etc.

yup.. and id choose kidd, payton, pierce and nash

[iamgine]

Magic was great as a swingman for like 4 years before he even ran point. He scored in the middle of his career...then kinda transitioned into a point forward. By the time he retired the first time it was just him, worthy, and role player remnants of their peak era and some young guys years away. By the end they were a middle of the pack scoring team(13th in a 27 team league) but an elite defensive team winning in the halfcourt a lot of the time posting up Magic and Worthy with Magic spotting up from 3 and playing some 4. Magic would prosper in any role and won rings by dropping 40+ or 20+ assists. He closed out one finals series by dropping 40...and another by putting up something like a 15/15/13 triple double where he only took 3 shots. Magic could...and did...do everything. He would have been a HOF power forward. Cant tie his greatness to any one way of playing.

Jordan was considered the best ever by many before Phil showed up with the triangle. Nobody would say the triangle made Jordan. He was already a career 33ppg player with an MVP.


Duncans systems have changed totally. Watch the 99 finals. They used to just dump it to Drob or Duncan and stand and watch. they didnt play this free flowing beautiful ball till he was like 8 years and 2 rings and 2 mvps in.

Even putting aside that they accomplished much more in the systems they are associated with than Nash.....they proved much more outside those systems than Nash did without the one hes most associated with.

Nash literally went from....not mentioned at all in best PG talks...being allowed to walk by his team so they could spend his money on Dampier...at age 30...considered a decline player...

To back to back MVPS.

Clearly he had it in him to begin with because you dont get that much better skills wise at 30...

But he was in an ideal situation.

At least 4 of those guys were in the league with Nash...Dallas or second run Phoenix Nash im not counting 90s Nash....

They seemed pretty adamant that they would put him behind several other points mostly due to feeling that system made him appear to be more than he is.

Id like to hear from more players in a setting that would let them be that candid.

Steve might be one of those guys other players arent that blown away by.

Though for the record....I think "sympathy mvp" was a bit harsh. Id likely have voted him 3rd in 05 behind Dirk and Shaq. I dont know how Dirk loses 3 all stars...one of them soon to be MVP...just gets back Jason Terry..wins more games than the year before(58 I think)...and doesnt get MVP love.

06 im not that mad at.

No Amare or JJ...Marion was great...Diaw stepped up. But that team wasnt all that talented.

He did his thing holding it together.
My point would be just because a system finally unleash your potential, it's not something to hold him against.

Perhaps I'm biased towards Nash. Let me repost what I said about Steve Nash a while back...

I used to be one of those people who said those 2 MVPs Nash got was a big mistake. I mean, over Kobe and Duncan? You gotta be joking. Clearly those 2 players must be better right? Then I started to follow Nash over a few games. My view totally change. My goodness, he's totally unstoppable. One of the smartest player I've ever seen stepped on the court. I would put him up there with Magic Johnson. Steve Nash was a combination of one of the most accurate shooter and one of the most elite playmaker in NBA history.

And he got a somewhat undeserved rep on defense. He does try hard, and while still a liability, he's not as bad as many people make him out to be. He's really bad against certain type of players but otherwise a decent defender. Plus PG position is the least important defense-wise.

I have no doubt in my mind that had the Suns played with a good defensive big back in mid 2000s, they'd have dominated the league. Saying Nash didn't deserve his MVPs would be like saying Magic didn't deserve his MVPs.

[Smoke117]

Are you serious. Everyone knows Robinson >>> Miller. But just cause a player wasn't top 5-10 doesn't mean he didn't carry his team.

What I said had nothing to do with Miller. :confusedshrug: You asked name these players who carry teams and I named one is all, mate.

[houston]

Wade disrespect was stupid as hell. You can tell these dudes are bitter.

[Dresta]

Shaq picked: Alex English, Dominique Wilkins, Bob McAdoo, Kobe, Duncan, Garnett, C. Webb, A.I., T-Mac, Gary Payton by the way.

No Nowitzki (probably forgot), no D. Wade, no Durant, no Jason Kidd.

He also said he has T-Mac and Penny both over D. Wade. I mean he must know best he played with all of them, why is he giving Wade no love?
Because Shaq stopped bothering to care remotely being in shape, sitting out games with made up injuries, being typical Shaq etc. to force his way out of an ageing team that had sacrificed its future for a small window, so he could hopefully coattail his way to another chip in Pheonix. Putting C-Webb over Dirk too is pretty :facepalm.

He got called out by Wade and nearly came to blows with Riley (this is how much of a child Shaq is: that he had to be restrained by Zo to not beat up on an old guy a 3rd of his size. Then after he left, he said lots of negative shit, as he usually does when leaving a team, and has decided to revise history and pretend he was the star of Miami's 06 title, and not Wade, so he can be more of a braggart on Inside the NBA. Always the clown - the definition of a giant man-child.

[PJR]

:oldlol: Yeah, Shaq has attempted to revise history more and more as time goes on in regards to 2006. Delusional ass n1gga.

On a Heat/TNT broadcast last season, he tried being slick, and made a passive aggressive quip about Wade, saying "D-Wade doesn't mind being the other guy. He's won all of his championships being the other guy."

Yeah...No. 28-6-5 vs 18/10..You were 'the other guy' playboy. He also sucked in the Finals (outscored by Antoine Walker), and was benched in Game 6 Riley due to sucking/foul trouble for Zo (who had a much bigger impact on the game).


And this recent episode of Open Court, he stated Steve Nash won MVP over him twice, implying he was a legit MVP candidate in 2006...when he only played 58 that year, and had career low numbers up until that point.

Delusional.

[Noyze]

Making First Team is a big deal. Very few of our favorite players actually made it on the All NBA First team. It usually means you were a top 5 player that year.

Of course winning the championship raises your status, but more so if you lead the team there or were a MAJOR contributor. I understand and halfway agree with Isiah's argument about having to win to be considered. I just think (and I've heard him make this point on First Take before) he credits then ring alittle too much. Gary Payton, Jason Kidd, & Mitch Richmond all won a championship but were role players and out of their prime when they did. Mitch and McAdoo were coming off the bench. At the same time McAdoo won a league MVP so that's huge and why i think he should be on.

It's amazing Miller and Cwebb almost made it on the list. I guess if I was friends and sitting next to them I'd have a soft spot too. But Reggie was never even 2nd team all NBA, never a top 10 player so not a MVP canidate and never won a ring. Their argument stemmed around his clutch shots, but making more of a case for T-Mac would have been more viable lol.

Even though I don't like Chris Webber, he's close. He almost won MVP in 01. Made first team 1 or 2 times and 7 allstar games. But he's not better then Dwade or Kevin Durant. KD is only 7 years in the league so i thought they might put Webb in over him. Then at the end of the video the list seems slightly unclear. I saw them giving Cwebb hugs like they were taking him off but did they put Wade & Durant in or Wade & Cwebb?? On the video at 17:40 they added Cwebb.

And to come back, Isiah says that he'd go with Wade over Durant because Wade has rings but doesn't mention that Webber has no rings either, so really the argument should have been between those 2 for the last spot.

They also discussed Ray Allen vs Reggie Miller. Nostalgia aside their accomplishments are actually very very similar. Would surprise some that Ray Allen was better in his prime (MVP canidate in 05), but Reggie did it longer so I'd say they were equal and chop that up to personal preference. Not a huge deal since neither made it.

lol and Shaq shouldn't be aloud to rank anything anymore. Dude always has an agenda now, last year he picked 3 players from Sacramento to make the NBA allstar team cause he's a part owner of the Kings.

[Smoke117]

Making First Team is a big deal. Very few of our favorite players actually made it on the All NBA First team. It usually means you were a top 5 player that year.

Of course winning the championship raises your status, but more so if you lead the team there or were a MAJOR contributor. I understand and halfway agree with Isiah's argument about having to win to be considered. I just think (and I've heard him make this point on First Take before) he credits then ring alittle too much. Gary Payton, Jason Kidd, & Mitch Richmond all won a championship but were role players and out of their prime when they did. Mitch and McAdoo were coming off the bench. At the same time McAdoo won a league MVP so that's huge and why i think he should be on.

It's amazing Miller and Cwebb almost made it on the list. I guess if I was friends and sitting next to them I'd have a soft spot too. But Reggie was never even 2nd team all NBA, never a top 10 player so not a MVP canidate and never won a ring. Their argument stemmed around his clutch shots, but making more of a case for T-Mac would have been more viable lol.

Even though I don't like Chris Webber, he's close. He almost won MVP in 01. Made first team 1 or 2 times and 7 allstar games. But he's not better then Dwade or Kevin Durant. KD is only 7 years in the league so i thought they might put Webb in over him. Then at the end of the video the list seems slightly unclear. I saw them giving Cwebb hugs like they were taking him off but did they put Wade & Durant in or Wade & Cwebb?? On the video at 17:40 they added Cwebb.

And to come back, Isiah says that he'd go with Wade over Durant because Wade has rings but doesn't mention that Webber has no rings either, so really the argument should have been between those 2 for the last spot.

They also discussed Ray Allen vs Reggie Miller. Nostalgia aside their accomplishments are actually very very similar. Would surprise some that Ray Allen was better in his prime (MVP canidate in 05), but Reggie did it longer so I'd say they were equal and chop that up to personal preference. Not a huge deal since neither made it.

lol and Shaq shouldn't be aloud to rank anything anymore. Dude always has an agenda now, last year he picked 3 players from Sacramento to make the NBA allstar team cause he's a part owner of the Kings.


How exactly has Miller done it longer?

[MavsSuperFan]

any one else thought it was weird how the guys on the panel didnt include wade as a sure thing? Hell they put webber above wade. and some put KD above wade

[MavsSuperFan]

This idiot Shaq really threw Tmac and Penny's names out there. :facepalm

Isiah, Reggie, and Kenny the only dudes on that panel with decent perspective.


And Isiah will forever have that soul burning hate in his heart for Jordan and Pippen. He wanted it known that he felt Pippen didn't belong in the first top 50..:oldlol:

the episode really showed how incredibly biased players are.

Why was barkley kind of anti wade?

[L.Kizzle]

Never mention Pippen when Isiah Thomas is around.

[L.Kizzle]

Shaq shading Bill Walton haa gone unmentioned.

[Norcaliblunt]

The funny thing is NASH WAS THE SYSTEM. Where else has D'antoni had success?

*cricket sounds* lol


The system was give Nash the ball and let one of the best playmakers and shooters of all time do his thing.

As for putting AI and Kidd above Nash I have no problem with that, but to use their finals trip's as a legit reason for doing so is asinine. The east was historically weak those years. Can anyone honestly say with a straight face that the Nash led Suns wouldn't have made it though the same awful competition that AI and Kidd did in that conference. Also what success did AI and Kidd have in the west? Oh yeah none. It's hardcore east coast bias propping up those finals runs.

[bizil]

The funny thing is NASH WAS THE SYSTEM. Where else has D'antoni had success?

*cricket sounds* lol


The system was give Nash the ball and let one of the best playmakers and shooters of all time do his thing.

As for putting AI and Kidd above Nash I have no problem with that, but to use their finals trip's as a legit reason for doing so is asinine. The east was historically weak those years. Can anyone honestly say with a straight face that the Nash led Suns wouldn't have made it though the same awful competition that AI and Kidd did in that conference. Also what success did AI and Kidd have in the west? Oh yeah none. It's hardcore east coast bias propping up those finals runs.


I agree with that! It seemed Nash, Payton, and Kidd were being compared a lot. And in a draft, I would take Nash third, mainly due to defensive reasons. In terms of passing the rock, Nash is just as good as Kidd and better than GP. In terms or scoring, Nash is better than Kidd but a bit behind Payton. Nash is a legend BECAUSE of the way he combined great passing, handles, and shooting in one. Nash, Price, and Curry have that market ON LOCK at the PG position. Nash was an All Star in Dallas BEFORE he even went back to Phoenix. I think the main difference in PHX was the finishers he had at his disposal. He had freak athletes in Marion and Amare to go with a wealth of shooters.

In Dallas, he didn't really have that kind of freakish All Star athletic ability to drop dime to. Amare and Marion are among the top ten most freakish athletes to EVER play their respective positions. And they were putting up over 20 points a night at their peaks. Sure D'Antoni's offense enhanced shit. But just like the Spurs offense, the Showtime Lakers, and the Triangle offense for the Bulls and Lakers offense enhanced shit. Nash was getting hated on hard! Payton, Nash, and Kidd all had a case for the next 10. But all three are SURELY in the top 70!

[Dresta]

the episode really showed how incredibly biased players are.

Why was barkley kind of anti wade?
Dunno man: swear he's kind of hated him ever since they did those commercials together.

Chuck looked sour as hell in that vid.

[Hoopz2332]

saw the full episode last night and they were going in on wade and Pippen:oldlol:. Shaq also dissed Bill Walton

[Dro]

Reggie Miller was never close to being a superstar and he didn't carry shit.
Well I guess that solves it then...:confusedshrug: And why so angry? Sounds like you may have some dislike for Reggie....

[tpols]

The funny thing is NASH WAS THE SYSTEM. Where else has D'antoni had success?

*cricket sounds* lol


The system was give Nash the ball and let one of the best playmakers and shooters of all time do his thing.

As for putting AI and Kidd above Nash I have no problem with that, but to use their finals trip's as a legit reason for doing so is asinine. The east was historically weak those years. Can anyone honestly say with a straight face that the Nash led Suns wouldn't have made it though the same awful competition that AI and Kidd did in that conference. Also what success did AI and Kidd have in the west? Oh yeah none. It's hardcore east coast bias propping up those finals runs.

First off.. Nash had way better teams than kidd. Joe johnson to kittles.. not close.amare to kmart.. kmart was a 40 percent shooter 20 ish ppg against duncan in the finals while amare has given duncan 35+ on crazy efficiency.. Marion to Jefferson.. better cast of shooters as well and both teams had no real center(that was good).

If you gave kidd all those weapons even out west he'd be at worst what nash was.. which was a second or third round player.

Then you have to account for styles.. Nash blew up after rule changes made it so you can't stop small guys from driving..Nash would not survive a series with Detroit or indy under old rules. Nor would he be able to give the nets their defensive identity.. I don't think that he'd be able to run free around the court running circles with PnRs without getting checked by Billups and Wallace hedging

[rmt]

Shaq shading Bill Walton haa gone unmentioned.

The pettiness comes out in players who play the same position as them. IMO, Bill Walton's entire career is not worthy of 50 GOAT - too short.

Ridiculous having CWebb or Reggie over DWade (who is much more accomplished) or KD.

[guy]

Pretty amazing how even guys like Barkley, Kenny, and Isiah are too nice to not include Webber and Miller. I would've thought at least those guys would've been blunt enough to not include them. I'd say next 10 should be something like:

Kobe
Duncan
KG
Dirk
Lebron
Wade
Iverson
Kidd
Nash
Nique

[sammichoffate]

Pretty amazing how even guys like Barkley, Kenny, and Isiah are too nice to not include Webber and Miller. I would've thought at least those guys would've been blunt enough to not include them. I'd say next 10 should be something like:

Kobe
Duncan
KG
Dirk
Lebron
Wade
Iverson
Kidd
Nash
NiquePierce? Durant?

[GoSpursGo1984]

Pierce? Durant?

I would not put Pierce there he was rarely one the best players in the NBA. Durant even though he is still playing has an argument over a few of those on the list.

[StephHamann]

Pretty amazing how even guys like Barkley, Kenny, and Isiah are too nice to not include Webber and Miller. I would've thought at least those guys would've been blunt enough to not include them. I'd say next 10 should be something like:

Kobe
Duncan
KG
Dirk
Lebron
Wade
Iverson
Kidd
Nash
Nique

:applause: repped

[Norcaliblunt]

First off.. Nash had way better teams than kidd. Joe johnson to kittles.. not close.amare to kmart.. kmart was a 40 percent shooter 20 ish ppg against duncan in the finals while amare has given duncan 35+ on crazy efficiency.. Marion to Jefferson.. better cast of shooters as well and both teams had no real center(that was good).

If you gave kidd all those weapons even out west he'd be at worst what nash was.. which was a second or third round player.

Then you have to account for styles.. Nash blew up after rule changes made it so you can't stop small guys from driving..Nash would not survive a series with Detroit or indy under old rules. Nor would he be able to give the nets their defensive identity.. I don't think that he'd be able to run free around the court running circles with PnRs without getting checked by Billups and Wallace hedging

Jason Kidd played in Phoenix did he not? With Marion, Prime Antonio McDyess, Penny Hardaway in Penny's last good year, Cliff Robinson, Rodney Rodgers, Tom Gugilotta, Rex Chapman, and Kevin Johnson. He never did anything significant there. You really believe those Nets teams would have done something in the west? Give Jason Kidd Nash's Suns roster and you think he has more success and beats the SA Spurs? Lol. Freaking Lebron has had trouble doing that with an all star team against an old Spurs. Like I said previously I don't care if you rank Kidd ahead of Nash as a player, just don't use his finals trips as the reasoning when Nash was battling his whole career in a much superior conference, and Kidd himself couldn't do anything when he was in the same position.

[bizil]

I think ALL OF THE next 10 they named other than Durant are in the 50 greatest players of all time. I don't think it's quite time for KD yet in a top 50. But it's coming fast AS HELL! LOL So I would take Dave D, Arizin, Hal Greer, Lenny Wilkens, Dave Bing, Worthy, Parish, Walton, and Thurmond off the actual 50 and have them in the 60's to 80's. U still gotta have a fair representation of guys in the 40's and 50's. That's why I kept guys like Mikan and Schayes on my list. However, I think Kidd, Payton, and Nash are also in the top 50 too, so I will have knock off some other guys at another time. Kind of pressed for time right now! lol

[Norcaliblunt]

amare to kmart.. kmart was a 40 percent shooter 20 ish ppg against duncan in the finals while amare has given duncan 35+ on crazy efficiency..

This is always where you people who claim to value defense show your true colors. Lol. You mention offense in this comparison, but fail bring up how Martin was a much better and capable defender than Amare. Lol. Is Kidd gonna anchor the defense from the PG position?

[Smoke117]

This is always where you people who claim to value defense show your true colors. Lol. You mention offense in this comparison, but fail bring up how Martin was a much better and capable defender than Amare. Lol. Is Kidd gonna anchor the defense from the PG position?

...uh, yes? He was the best and most impactful defensive player on that team. He's the greatest defensive PG, period...and again, yes he did anchor the Nets defense with his incredible help defense.

[JoshCoward]

Jason Kidd played in Phoenix did he not? With Marion, Prime Antonio McDyess, Penny Hardaway in Penny's last good year, Cliff Robinson, Rodney Rodgers, Tom Gugilotta, Rex Chapman, and Kevin Johnson. He never did anything significant there. You really believe those Nets teams would have done something in the west? Give Jason Kidd Nash's Suns roster and you think he has more success and beats the SA Spurs? Lol. Freaking Lebron has had trouble doing that with an all star team against an old Spurs. Like I said previously I don't care if you rank Kidd ahead of Nash as a player, just don't use his finals trips as the reasoning when Nash was battling his whole career in a much superior conference, and Kidd himself couldn't do anything when he was in the same position.

You act like they played in the same years. Mcdyess played with Kidd in 1998. KJ was past his prime (with frequent injuries) from 1997, Cliff Robinson? Rodney Rogers? At the time, they were at best very good role players. They can't be compared with Prime Amare, Marion etc. Not gonna even mention Gugs as he was injured half the time and simple wasn't the same as Minny Gugs.

Penny? He was injured half the time. But when Penny and Kidd played together, their record was 33–12.

[Norcaliblunt]

[QUOTE=JoshCoward]You act like they played in the same years. Mcdyess played with Kidd in 1998. KJ was past his prime (with frequent injuries) from 1997, Cliff Robinson? Rodney Rogers? At the time, they were at best very good role players. They can't be compared with Prime Amare, Marion etc. Not gonna even mention Gugs as he was injured half the time and simple wasn't the same as Minny Gugs.

Penny? He was injured half the time. But when Penny and Kidd played together, their record was 33

[Norcaliblunt]

...uh, yes? He was the best and most impactful defensive player on that team. He's the greatest defensive PG, period...and yes he did anchor the Nets defense with his incredible help defense.

And as good as it was it sure as hell wasn't gonna get them past the SA Spurs. And adding defensive liabilities like Amare isn't gonna help.

[Magic 32]

No one who made their career by only playing in the 98-14 EC should be on the list.

[Norcaliblunt]

You act like they played in the same years.

Everybody else is doing the same with Nash's Suns teams. Joe Johnson played one year with Nash. He wasn't even an all star, it was his first break out year, and he got injured in the 2005 semi finals barely playing from there on. Amare didn't even play in 2006. 2010 Suns had Nash, Amare, role players and were a Ron Artest put back away from taking the eventual champs to a game seven in the western conference finals.

[Norcaliblunt]

No one who made their career by only playing in the 98-14 EC should be on the list.

This.

[K Xerxes]

I dislike Wade a LOT, but really do find it incredible that he's not unanimous on this panel. Are you kidding me?

Duncan
Kobe
LeBron
KG
Dirk
Wade

The above should be unanimously agreed upon IMO. I understand Iverson because of his impact on the game I suppose. A lot of others qualify to be on the list, and I guess it's just pick your flavor then. Players like Nash, Kidd, GP, Penny, Tmac, Nique, CWebb, MacAdoo, Pierce and a host of other names.

[lilteapot]

No one who made their career by only playing in the 98-14 EC should be on the list.
Great logic moron.

[Magic 32]

Great logic moron.

http://static.squarespace.com/static/52fd68b8e4b095b64096f6ea/t/53a63ee2e4b0b6428d0dca59/1403404030945/

[tpols]

This is always where you people who claim to value defense show your true colors. Lol. You mention offense in this comparison, but fail bring up how Martin was a much better and capable defender than Amare. Lol. Is Kidd gonna anchor the defense from the PG position?
Duncan went off on kmart more than he did on amare lol. Damn near had a GOAT finals run on kenyon.. please.. pass whatever it is your smoking. I need to get high right now.

[sportjames23]

No one who made their career by only playing in the 98-14 EC should be on the list.

Bron? Wade?

[Real14]

Duncan went off on kmart more than he did on amare lol. Damn near had a GOAT finals run on kenyon.. please.. pass whatever it is your smoking. I need to get high right now.
:lol

[BIZARRO]

There is no universe where Jason Kidd is a better basketball player or even close to Kevin Durant, Dominique Wilkins, Chris Webber, Dwayne Wade, or Bob Mcadoo.

Damn is Kidd overrated. Maybe if he could actually avg. 17 a game once or shoot above 39% more than every now and then maybe. But it is laughable to compare him to someone like Durant or Nique.

[Real14]

There is no universe where Jason Kidd is a better basketball player or even close to Kevin Durant, Dominique Wilkins, Chris Webber, Dwayne Wade, or Bob Mcadoo.

Damn is Kidd overrated. Maybe if he could actually avg. 17 a game once or shoot above 39% more than every now and then maybe. But it is laughable to compare him to someone like Durant or Nique.
Nique is overrated tho.

[Norcaliblunt]

Duncan went off on kmart more than he did on amare lol. Damn near had a GOAT finals run on kenyon.. please.. pass whatever it is your smoking. I need to get high right now.

Lol. So are you literally gonna sit there and say Amare is a better defender than Keyon Martin? Ignoring all intangibles? Sorry it sounds like you need some more crack to keep up with that delusion and I don't do that.

[Norcaliblunt]

Jason Kidd vs SA in 2003

FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST STL BLK
.364 .270 .833 44.2 19.7 6.2 7.8 1.2 0.2


Steve Nash vs SA in 2005

FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST STL BLK
.522 .222 .900 42.0 23.2 3.8 10.6 1.2 0.2