Gen Z is really pushing the “The 90s were awful” angle lately.

[Kblaze8855]

They pretty much watch a game to find a bad highlight or two, and put it online to reaffirm the opinions of the rest of them. A lot of them are actually pretty funny if you’re secure enough to not let it get to you. I saw a whole series on Jordan apparently having no left hand and how he would be defended like Ben Simmons today. This was the star of that one:









https://i.ibb.co/94cd6fn/IMG-7963.gif









I saw some about how bird and Barkley were both terrible. The running theme is don’t let these “old heads” trick you. I’m not too concerned because the kind of person to believe these things doesn’t really care about evidence. It’s just something to laugh at. I have enough real issues not to overly concern myself with what 19-year-olds think about 1988. You hate to see misinformation in general, but most of them are loss causes, so **** it. Get a laugh where you can I guess.

[SATAN]

The 90s weren't bad but I think some people never moved on from there and don't really understand the game. It wasn't as good as some say and vice versa. It's more a casual problem than an age problem imo. I wouldn't expect either age group to know much if they didn't even play or at least watch consistently and try to grasp what's going on beyond the numbers and highlights.

[1987_Lakers]

Same could be said when old heads prop up 90's ball like it was some sort of mini version of the NFL in terms of physicality. I remember Stephen A Smith saying the NBA in the 90's was when men played, then JJ Redick chimed in and stated he watched the entire '93 Finals and the series was not really physical or something to that effect. Stephen A got really quiet after that. :oldlol:

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9DsUHm3YQQ

Old head calling Bird a top 5 three point shooter of all time despite him not really shooting 3s. :oldlol:

[Xiao Yao You]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9DsUHm3YQQ

Old head calling Bird a top 5 three point shooter of all time despite him not really shooting 3s. :oldlol:

He held the record for most in a season before Griffith broke it so actually he did shoot 3's

[warriorfan]

They pretty much watch a game to find a bad highlight or two, and put it online to reaffirm the opinions of the rest of them. A lot of them are actually pretty funny if you’re secure enough to not let it get to you. I saw a whole series on Jordan apparently having no left hand and how he would be defended like Ben Simmons today. This was the star of that one:









https://i.ibb.co/94cd6fn/IMG-7963.gif









I saw some about how bird and Barkley were both terrible. The running theme is don’t let these “old heads” trick you. I’m not too concerned because the kind of person to believe these things doesn’t really care about evidence. It’s just something to laugh at. I have enough real issues not to overly concern myself with what 19-year-olds think about 1988. You hate to see misinformation in general, but most of them are loss causes, so **** it. Get a laugh where you can I guess.

They are funny and always expose themselves immediately as being dumb as hell

[Kblaze8855]

Mad dog says things for the express purpose of getting young people riled up to talk about it on social media. He went from a legendary local sports duo in New York to first take on a trial run, and now it’s been extended, and he was given a big raise. What he does is make lists and throw in curveballs and talk about the old days. And he’s not as old as he looks. People mock him talking about basketball from his day not realizing he wasn’t even born at the time they think he was. He legitimately has people in their 20s thinking he ever saw Bob Cousy play. Cousy retired when he was like 4. I saw he made a toughest sports list recently and had Curling as number 2.

Hes good at it. People talk about them all like he’s being serious. I heard him on a podcast, admitting he leans into it to get a rise out of you.

[1987_Lakers]

He held the record for most in a season before Griffith broke it so actually he did shoot 3's

Like 3 attempts a game? lol.

That's how many 3s Embiid attempts today.

No doubt Bird would be a great 3 point shooter today, but he simply didn't attempt enough 3 point shots to be considered top 5 ever.

[Reggie43]

https://youtu.be/3TMH914p8cM?si=2C3LhLIyEr4gaIAi

Saw this a week ago which was kind of disturbing cause he had a ton of these clips lol

[Im Still Ballin]

https://youtu.be/3TMH914p8cM?si=2C3LhLIyEr4gaIAi

Saw this a week ago which was kind of disturbing cause he had a ton of these clips lol

:roll:

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLawYwCyyFE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htJqZxlSJ3I
Reminds me of that Tom Brady hater who would make vids like this years ago. :lol

[j3lademaster]

Mad dog says things for the express purpose of getting young people riled up to talk about it on social media. He went from a legendary local sports duo in New York to first take on a trial run, and now it’s been extended, and he was given a big raise. What he does is make lists and throw in curveballs and talk about the old days. And he’s not as old as he looks. People mock him talking about basketball from his day not realizing he wasn’t even born at the time they think he was. He legitimately has people in their 20s thinking he ever saw Bob Cousy play. Cousy retired when he was like 4. I saw he made a toughest sports list recently and had Curling as number 2.

Hes good at it. People talk about them all like he’s being serious. I heard him on a podcast, admitting he leans into it to get a rise out of you.not all of us have the free time to research Mad Dog’s life and podcast appearances, we can only go off what he said on espn. If his exchange with Redick got rise out of anyone it was Bob Cousy.

[NBAGOAT]

Mad dog says things for the express purpose of getting young people riled up to talk about it on social media. He went from a legendary local sports duo in New York to first take on a trial run, and now it’s been extended, and he was given a big raise. What he does is make lists and throw in curveballs and talk about the old days. And he’s not as old as he looks. People mock him talking about basketball from his day not realizing he wasn’t even born at the time they think he was. He legitimately has people in their 20s thinking he ever saw Bob Cousy play. Cousy retired when he was like 4. I saw he made a toughest sports list recently and had Curling as number 2.

Hes good at it. People talk about them all like he’s being serious. I heard him on a podcast, admitting he leans into it to get a rise out of you.

sounds like most people who post youtube/tiktok content too. Controversy sells

[warriorfan]

not all of us have the free time to research Mad Dog’s life and podcast appearances, we can only go off what he said on espn. If his exchange with Redick got rise out of anyone it was Bob Cousy.

well now you know

[FultzNationRISE]

Ok but to be fair, when youve been spoiled to grow up with The Lebron Standard, basketball from back when does look kinda silly. It doesnt even look like a sport. If you really think about it on a deeper level, Lebron kinda invented basketball.

[warriorfan]

tbh jj going after cousy is one of the more disgusting things i’ve seen. like talk about standing on the shoulders of giants and appreciating that these guys paved the way for where you are today, and you go back and try to shit on them after the fact. with jj it’s even worse because he made all his money off their backs. His playing career is over. He doesn’t need any more money, he doesn’t need anything, it’s like an extra f u to all the guys who played in an archiach league that didn’t have proper compensation and medical care for the players…. The compulsion to undermine their achievements is really weird. JJ got some issues to say the least. god bless him.

[dankok8]

Yea JJ's comments on Cousy were disgusting. I could understand a paper pusher, couch potato analyst making that kind of statement but for a successful pro to say that. :facepalm He should respect the past legends that paved the way.

Gen Z morons.. yep. It is what it is though.

[SATAN]

Yea JJ's comments on Cousy were disgusting. I could understand a paper pusher, couch potato analyst making that kind of statement but for a successful pro to say that. :facepalm He should respect the past legends that paved the way.

Gen Z morons.. yep. It is what it is though.

Do you think he doesn't?

This is the person we are talking about:

https://facts.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/25-unbelievable-facts-about-bob-cousy-1697097510.jpg

Why be so offended over a joke when you got guys like the one in your avatar throwing his ego about and talking shit about newer players year after year?

JJ was just doing the ridiculous shit talk in the wrong environment. The context is the game wasn't as developed. The network got the attention they wanted. People talked. He apologized.

He's a millenial btw.

[Phoenix]

I'm old enough now to understand that everyone protects their era whether it be sports, music, movies, etc. Wilt, Russell and Oscar fans were thumbing their nose at Jordan. Jordan fans thumbing it at Kobe. Jordan and Kobe fans thumb it at Lebron. Someone born in 2015 will thumb it at this current gen and think the NBA started when Wembenyama entered the league. I think cartoons peaked between the 70s and 90s but when I show my 6 year old nephew the OG TMNT show he thinks its absolute garbage and I think his version is crap. My wifes then 12 year old Goddaughter loves the Looney Tunes show that came out a few years ago, but blank-faces Bugs and Daffy fighting over wabbit or duck season or Yosemite cursing nonsensically trying to keep an inheritance that Bugs was deducting from if he lost his temper. It is what it is.

[iamgine]

The thing old heads usually don't get is players get better and better as each era passed. If you think Bob Cousy would be something more than team accountant today you'd be fooling yourself.

The thing new heads usually don't get is the new players won't fare better if they played in the old era. If you think Lebron James would average 50 points in canvas shoes, bus travel, terrible coaches, no 3s, no injury management, smoke filled arena, racist chants. You'd be fooling yourself as well.

[Phoenix]

This thread reminds me of this dude here:

https://youtu.be/6Gyj3BcROl0?si=HPsZRcwm_deIHvdp

I don't think he's gen Z though, more like an older millennial. If you're not that emotionally invested in protecting this shit it is hilarious.

[Phoenix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLawYwCyyFE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htJqZxlSJ3I
Reminds me of that Tom Brady hater who would make vids like this years ago. :lol

Oh shit I just posted that guy without even looking at all the comments to know you and Reggie43 already posted him lol

[tpols]

Gifs like that do show the lack of 3pt skill back then. Even non shooters today would drill a 3 with that type of sagging.

[Micku]

This is every era tho. It's pretty funny, but it happens all the time.

In the 91 finals, there was a player who played in the 70s who complained that you couldn't play defense with the new rules. And how they could guard MJ.

Wilt was saying how MJ couldn't shoot and he couldn't go left I think. The pistons made that their whole defense against him.

Wilt was complaining about Shaq in the 90s, at how he used to foul people.

Now you have guys like Sheed talking about how the 00s was the golden era of basketball and how the 20s don't compare. In Gil's podcast, they recently went over the best decade and thought the 00s is the best. One of the dudes thought AI is better than Curry.

Eventually, you'll have fans criticize the 00s too haha. The 00s can't shoot or play the offense like the 20s can. And eventually, we are going to criticize the 10s and the 20s too. It's a cycle. I feel like if you been around long enough, you see the same thing. It's going to happen. Even back in the 90s they predicted this. They called Magic a complainer and he had more help than MJ. And criticized the early 80s for the lack of defense. Then Magic fans clap back and said ppl are going to criticize the era that MJ played in too in the future.

[Micku]

This thread reminds me of this dude here:

https://youtu.be/6Gyj3BcROl0?si=HPsZRcwm_deIHvdp

I don't think he's gen Z though, more like an older millennial. If you're not that emotionally invested in protecting this shit it is hilarious.

That guy cracks me up lol!

[Wardell Curry]

Look at how skinny the players were. Anyone that thinks most of the league isn't on PEDs is kidding themselves, lol. And by most of the league, I mean almost all of them. Most of the league has been on PEDs for 15-20+ years at this point.

A decent number of star players were on PEDs even in the 90s tho. 80s, I don't really think so. Maybe.

[bison]

You can cherry pick any highlights these days and make it seem like any particular was good/bad. I take it with a grain of salt but is there any other sport where different generations sh1t on each other? Like older commentators on ESPN and TNT will just straight up criticize the new players and call them soft. I don’t see that in football for example. Retired football players who work on fox or cbs always give current players their due credit. It works the other way around too or course. Zoomers will try to minimize or make fun of Jordan and magic for no reason other than sh1t posting and showing generational allegiance. How hard is it for supposed basketball fans to simply show respect to the game as a whole?

[dankok8]

You can cherry pick any highlights these days and make it seem like any particular was good/bad. I take it with a grain of salt but is there any other sport where different generations sh1t on each other? Like older commentators on ESPN and TNT will just straight up criticize the new players and call them soft. I don’t see that in football for example. Retired football players who work on fox or cbs always give current players their due credit. It works the other way around too or course. Zoomers will try to minimize or make fun of Jordan and magic for no reason other than sh1t posting and showing generational allegiance. How hard is it for supposed basketball fans to simply show respect to the game as a whole?

It's because no other sport except basketball fundamentally changed its style across eras. The change in rules, officiating practice, and tactics have made today's game unrecognizable to those that played in the past. And honestly the 90's game was also unrecognizable compared to the 60's. Basketball is the only sport that did that.

[tpols]

That guy cracks me up lol!

I know they're cherrypicking the plays but man... Oakley out here airballing wide open 15 foot shots. :lol

And he was an All Star!

Makes you wonder... some of these guys... did they even practice basketball? Or just goonsmanship?

[Xiao Yao You]

I know they're cherrypicking the plays but man... Oakley out here airballing wide open 15 foot shots. :lol

And he was an All Star!

Makes you wonder... some of these guys... did they even practice basketball? Or just goonsmanship?

Oakley had a good face up game. Could shoot and pass. Couldn't jump and was pretty useless around the basket offensively

[Lebron23]

They pretty much watch a game to find a bad highlight or two, and put it online to reaffirm the opinions of the rest of them. A lot of them are actually pretty funny if you’re secure enough to not let it get to you. I saw a whole series on Jordan apparently having no left hand and how he would be defended like Ben Simmons today. This was the star of th



https://i.ibb.co/94cd6fn/IMG-7963.gif









I saw some about how bird and Barkley were both terrible. The running theme is don’t let these “old heads” trick you. I’m not too concerned because the kind of person to believe these things doesn’t really care about evidence. It’s just something to laugh at. I have enough real issues not to overly concern myself with what 19-year-olds think about 1988. You hate to see misinformation in general, but most of them are loss causes, so **** it. Get a laugh where you can I guess.
Sixers giving Michael Jordan the Westbrook treatment. Very poor 3 points shooter.

[FKAri]

https://i.ibb.co/94cd6fn/IMG-7963.gif

MJ scored 52 this game if it's the game I think it is.

[Kblaze8855]

I know they're cherrypicking the plays but man... Oakley out here airballing wide open 15 foot shots. :lol

And he was an All Star!

Makes you wonder... some of these guys... did they even practice basketball? Or just goonsmanship?

It’s just one of those things where selective highlights combined with a reputation can easily mislead. At one time Oakley was damn near a pick and pop specialist and was out there throwing some of the most beautiful alleyoops in the league. 80 foot outlet passes two. He was a mid range shooter who could pass like the stereotypical soft euros but his look and reputation gives people the idea he was unskilled when you cherry pick the right highlights. He was old-school in his mentality, but he would almost definitely be a physical stretch big making nice passes out of the high post right now. I could show you games he makes six or seven really long twos. He wasn’t a guy who couldn’t shoot once he got a few years in.

He made passes that would remind you of a Gasol brother at 18 feet. Just doesn’t look like the type.

Anthony Mason was the same way. Looks like a goon but had guard handles and throw full court bounce passes off the dribble.

A lot of the goon rep guys could actually play.

Laimbeer was a goon. But he could shoot.

The goons weren’t just goons.

[Kblaze8855]

https://youtu.be/cEBi6SIdAFw?si=8Tfdw-j3zKJWdWYY


Charles had all of that in the 80s. He was making those shots on the Bulls and throwing those passes. You can see him with a pistol Pete/Vlade style underhand long outlet. The Bird/Jokic touchdown outlet. Spotting up.

Oakley could shoot, make really quick decisions as a passer, and knew where to be. He really should have been a triangle guy which is why I’ll never forgive them trading him for Cartwright.

Skill set wise you would think he was one of those big bodied, smart and tough euros. He wasn’t some unskilled guy. But showing an airball can make him look like it. He didn’t even do much of the traditional old-school post play. Oakley played almost like like a super physical pick and pop passing euro big in his prime. Hed just get 16 rebounds at the same time and slap someone to make a point.

[John8204]

00's were awful...the 90's just weren't as good as the 80's.

[Kblaze8855]

The lowlight reel just from missed layups and travels at the start of this Celtic Sun game would make a decent rebuttal video If anyone cared to make it. I’m sure nobody does. I certainly don’t have it in me to put the effort in at this point.

[eliteballer]

https://www.instagram.com/rare_sports/reel/C4UAoGgP_Sl/?hl=en

[Kblaze8855]

I think the “wedonewiththe90s” theme is just ramping up. Theyre enjoying the “old head” backlash and young head kudos too much to stop

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2403110257070326.jpeg

[fsvr54]

Kids are so ****ing stupid it's unreal. It should be illegal to have opinions until 25

[Reggie43]

On the topic of unheralded enforcers, who knew Antonio Davis was capable of these?


https://youtu.be/rP9USYM45os?si=082HIjGSPxkWma9s

[HoopsNY]

I know they're cherrypicking the plays but man... Oakley out here airballing wide open 15 foot shots. :lol

And he was an All Star!

Makes you wonder... some of these guys... did they even practice basketball? Or just goonsmanship?

Oakley's shot became automatic actually. His mid-range was lethal.

[FKAri]

Oakley's shot became automatic actually. His mid-range was lethal.

It's frustrating as hell to watch him in retrospect. If he took a step back instead of forward his sweet spot jumper would be a 3. He loved that 18 footer.

[RRR3]

Oakley's shot became automatic actually. His mid-range was lethal.
His career TS% was below league average, so I'm gonna call BS

[HoopsNY]

His career TS% was below league average, so I'm gonna call BS

You can call bs. I watched him. His mid-range had really developed through the 90s. Oakley wasn't a post player. From '88-'97 his FG% was 50%. Look at his shot from 16-29 ft in 1997-99. He shot 47% from that range and 49% of his FGAs were from there.

[Wardell Curry]

BTW it isn't "Gen Z." It's one guy making jokes. Now it's a meme so it'll be more.

[Kblaze8855]

His career TS% was below league average, so I'm gonna call BS

if somebody does nothing but shoot mid range jumpers at a great clip for that shot but takes no threes and doesn’t take free throws….why would he have a high true shooting percentage?

One season he played 35 minutes a game and average 1.4 free throws attempted. He shot 85% on them and took 6 threes the whole season.

How then do you expect to determine if he could shoot midrange by his true shooting?

Guy was a midrange specialist at points. That was like…all you could rely on him to shoot.

[Xiao Yao You]

Between '96 and '04 when they apparently tracked that stuff he was best from 0-3 feet which wasn't his sweet spot as he only took 1/3 of his attempts from there. From what I remember he couldn't dunk the ball standing under the rim. He had to be on the move. His 2nd best spot by far and where I remember him most was between 16 ft - 3 PT at 43% and where 62% of his shots came from. '96 was his best so he was probably already on the decline by than

[tpols]

I can't stop laughing @ him roasting Mike.:lol



Look at Jordan playing with his feet out here ! He was overhyped BIG trash! And then he shot a blank... yo Mike might even have went in that room and was smokin with him man... this some dope fiend shit. Look at him what is he doing is he Michael Jackson? Big Trash!



https://youtu.be/tPnufuvzTII?si=Gw_ANoRjGxFi7iWU

On a side note I didn't realize MJ was weak with his left hand.

[Kblaze8855]

He wasn’t. No more than Charles Oakley was a guy who didn’t shoot. It’s just easy to stain together. Bad looking place. You could do it and make anybody look like anything. You comb the footage enough you could convince somebody in 30 years that Jokic couldnt handle a double team. They have people thinking bird couldn’t shoot now.

[1987_Lakers]

This shit has the biggest LeBron hater on youtube all riled up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFM7eQVFVgc

:oldlol:

[dankok8]

Jordan is literally one of the most ambidextrous guards ever. He was a beast at finishing with his left.

And as for not being able to shoot, Jordan is arguably the GOAT midrange shooter and an above average 3pt shooter.

"We're done with the 90's" is just sheer stupidity that went viral because most fans are ignorant and don't know any better because they started watching basketball in the last 10 years. And honestly you can think Lebron is GOAT but don't spew this stupid narrative or people will think you're retarded.

[SATAN]

Jordan is literally one of the most ambidextrous guards ever. He was a beast at finishing with his left.

And as for not being able to shoot, Jordan is arguably the GOAT midrange shooter and an above average 3pt shooter.

"We're done with the 90's" is just sheer stupidity that went viral because most fans are ignorant and don't know any better because they started watching basketball in the last 10 years. And honestly you can think Lebron is GOAT but don't spew this stupid narrative or people will think you're retarded.

You created a poll then proceeded to exclud votes favorable towards LeBron. WE DONE WIT DA 90S!!

[warriorfan]

Jordan is literally one of the most ambidextrous guards ever. He was a beast at finishing with his left.

And as for not being able to shoot, Jordan is arguably the GOAT midrange shooter and an above average 3pt shooter.

"We're done with the 90's" is just sheer stupidity that went viral because most fans are ignorant and don't know any better because they started watching basketball in the last 10 years. And honestly you can think Lebron is GOAT but don't spew this stupid narrative or people will think you're retarded.

i’ve taken it as an ironic meme

i’m pretty sure that’s what it is?

just from the few videos of that guy there…it’s fairly obvious he isn’t serious. the guy is joking around. if anything he’s doing satire on zoomers

[warriorfan]

You created a poll then proceeded to exclud votes favorable towards LeBron. WE DONE WIT DA 90S!!

lol, you are so pathetic

kill yourself

[Kblaze8855]

Jordan is literally one of the most ambidextrous guards ever. He was a beast at finishing with his left.

And as for not being able to shoot, Jordan is arguably the GOAT midrange shooter and an above average 3pt shooter.

"We're done with the 90's" is just sheer stupidity that went viral because most fans are ignorant and don't know any better because they started watching basketball in the last 10 years. And honestly you can think Lebron is GOAT but don't spew this stupid narrative or people will think you're retarded.

it went viral because it’s hilarious. Not everything funny has to be accurate. It’s unfortunate people believe it’s accurate, but there’s nothing to be done about that. The people who need to hear it won’t believe the people who know better.

in every era, the older fans are the ones who have seen enough of both times to have an informed opinion, but young fans are always turned off by nostalgia more than they’re interested in information they don’t have.

Considering some of the shit I thought in the 80s and early 90s about earlier generations I’m in no position to criticize. I was more respectful about it but it is what it is. I was around to watch Doctor J play live, and I didn’t think he was that special even while I was trying to steal all of his moves because I could palm a ball a little bit as I got older. I really let old retiring doc, influence my opinion on how good he was in his prime because I wasn’t around to see it. I wasn’t watching the ABA. You would figure that would make me listen to people who did, but that isn’t how it works with young people.

It will never end.

[TheMan]

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLLDVaBq/
Lol, getting ridiculous. BTW, those we done wit da 80s/90s videos are so over the top that they are obviously joking yet some younger fans actually taking them serious :roll:

[rawimpact]

90s and early 2000s were the best, and it's not nostalgia sorry.

Positions meant something

Besides shooting there were other showcased skillsets

It is very one dimensional now... yes the shooting is significantly better today, but that's thanks to years of rule changes that oppressed defense.

[tpols]

We know it's satire but it's still pretty funny. Watching some of the games guys really did sag hard into the paint and then they'd get physical with you if you forced a drive. But that wouldn't fly in this era with today's long range shooting.

Its much easier to play defense when you can sag into the paint and are surrounded by goons to your left and right because offensive players largely refused to take the open 3pt shots.

I mean Xiao watched that era and he even said Sloan would bench a guy for taking a 3 too many times even if he could shoot. That was a prevalent mentality back then MJ even said he didn't like 3s because he thought they were bad shots.

[SATAN]

90s and early 2000s were the best, and it's not nostalgia sorry.

Positions meant something

Besides shooting there were other showcased skillsets

It is very one dimensional now...

Denisovan level take.

[dankok8]

it went viral because it’s hilarious. Not everything funny has to be accurate. It’s unfortunate people believe it’s accurate, but there’s nothing to be done about that. The people who need to hear it won’t believe the people who know better.

in every era, the older fans are the ones who have seen enough of both times to have an informed opinion, but young fans are always turned off by nostalgia more than they’re interested in information they don’t have.

Considering some of the shit I thought in the 80s and early 90s about earlier generations I’m in no position to criticize. I was more respectful about it but it is what it is. I was around to watch Doctor J play live, and I didn’t think he was that special even while I was trying to steal all of his moves because I could palm a ball a little bit as I got older. I really let old retiring doc, influence my opinion on how good he was in his prime because I wasn’t around to see it. I wasn’t watching the ABA. You would figure that would make me listen to people who did, but that isn’t how it works with young people.

It will never end.

Well I only started watching the NBA live in 1996-97 but that's doesn't mean I won't respect past legends. And neither do you from what I've seen.

Besides, when I watch these older eras, I really don't see inferior basketball. Honestly the game is not really better or worse to me. Just different.

But yea, young people who are just tuning into the NBA will start saying Jokic > Lebron. In fact it's already slowly happening and it's funny to see. It's a never ending cycle indeed.

[Airupthere]

Wait 'til you see the payback on this generation from future generations

[RRR3]

Jordan is literally one of the most ambidextrous guards ever. He was a beast at finishing with his left.

And as for not being able to shoot, Jordan is arguably the GOAT midrange shooter and an above average 3pt shooter.

"We're done with the 90's" is just sheer stupidity that went viral because most fans are ignorant and don't know any better because they started watching basketball in the last 10 years. And honestly you can think Lebron is GOAT but don't spew this stupid narrative or people will think you're retarded.
:roll:

Shit like this is exactly why gen z is starting this trend.

[Soundwave]

:roll:

Shit like this is exactly why gen z is starting this trend.

They don't understand the context behind some of those stats though, for example I believe someone showed in games where Jordan shot a higher number of 3s, the percentage was pretty much in line with a lot of modern players. Of course when you don't shoot a lot, it's harder to get a rhythm.

But if you're a Gen Z, you're not really going to know any of that stuff.

Jordan's shot release, shot mechanics are fantastic.

[RRR3]

Jordan was below league average (not the league today, the league during when he played) every season of his career besides 2 when he had the normal 3PT line. Many of those seasons he was far below average. It’s insane to claim he was above average at 3s even for his era.

If he was capable of shooting 3s well but chose not to he’s an idiot. So it’s more likely he just took more 3s those two seasons because his shot was working.

[Soundwave]

Jordan was below league average (not the league today, the league during when he played) every season of his career besides 2 when he had the normal 3PT line. Many of those seasons he was far below average. It’s insane to claim he was above average at 3s even for his era.

If he was capable of shooting 3s well but chose not to he’s an idiot. So it’s more likely he just took more 3s those two seasons because his shot was working.

Yeah ok, basketball genius, the reason Jordan didn't take many 3s is his mid-range and attacking the hoop game was ridiculously efficient.

At the time the game was different, the thought process was always to try and get a high quality look from the mid range and even better yet at the rim. Now you can argue and kick and scream all you want, but that was how basketball was played then and coached then. You look for the best quality shot first and that generally meant closer to the basket.

We have a version of Jordan that shoots more threes ... that would be Kobe Bryant, there are downsides to that approach too. He was a less efficient player overall.

The other fact is Jordan is such a spectacular athlete that especially earlier in his career it simply would have been dumb to not attack the basket and dunk or finish at the rim, quite often getting a third point anyway from an and 1 situation.

In 20-30 years you'll have some dumb kid also saying how teams played basketball in the 2010s/2020s was stupid too, lol, that's the nature of these things.

Also I believe you are misunderstanding the stat I was citing, it was in games were Jordan shot more than something like 3 3s, his percentage was pretty comparable to modern players.

[tpols]

I dont think many people doubt if MJ practiced 3s more and took more he could shoot them like most stars of today. Although it wouldn't be entirely necessary since the spacing today is so ridiculous he'd have a field day running at the rim.

But from a larger perspective a lot of 90s guys act like it was the hand checking that made games so low scoring, when in actuality it was the fact 3 or 4 players in every starting lineup couldn't shoot long distance at all and were left wide open on the perimeter. Which left the paints packed and made it harder to drive or score.



Even if you look at the 72 win GOAT Bulls... Scottie Pippen took and made the most 3s on that team! :lol Pippen was the best long range shooter on the Bulls most winning team. Think about that.

Harper was a full time starter and was trash at 3s. Luc Longley and Rodman were full time starters and didn't hit a single 3 all season between the two of them. Trash spacing. MJ shot amazing at 43 3pt%.

It's not MJ that was trash or others superstars. It was the other guys that couldn't space the floor at all and it led to anemic offenses.

[Soundwave]

I dont think many people doubt if MJ practiced 3s more and took more he could shoot them like most stars of today. Although it wouldn't be entirely necessary since the spacing today is so ridiculous he'd have a field day running at the rim.

But from a larger perspective a lot of 90s guys act like it was the hand checking that made games so low scoring, when in actuality it was the fact 3 or 4 players in every starting lineup couldn't shoot long distance at all and were left wide open on the perimeter. Which left the paints packed and made it harder to drive or score.



Even if you look at the 72 win GOAT Bulls... Scottie Pippen took and made the most 3s on that team! :lol Pippen was the best long range shooter on the Bulls most winning team. Think about that.

Harper was a full time starter and was trash at 3s. Luc Longley and Rodman were full time starters and didn't hit a single 3 all season between the two of them. Trash spacing. MJ shot amazing at 43 3pt%.

It's not MJ that was trash or others superstars. It was the other guys that couldn't space the floor at all and it led to anemic offenses.


Like I said someone posted this stat but in games where Jordan shot more 3s, his percentage was quite respectable/comparable to a modern day player. Hard to get in a rhythm in a night where you only shoot like 2 threes. It just wasn't common in that era to shoot so many of them unless you were basically a "3 point specialist".

That's in game stats too, not just "well this season he was feeling it", it's by the game.

Prime Jordan would cook today's league either way (2s, 3s, doesn't even matter) as you said, the idea of anyone in the modern league trying to stop a prime Jordan at the rim is a laugh. Just drive to the rim every time and dunk or finish, these soft defenses and their "6'8 centers" aren't going to do sh*t.

[NuggetsFan]

It’s because of how the NBA is marketed IMO. Individual players are above the team. You don’t see this stuff at the same level with sports like MLB/NHL/NFL. You have a % of fans who care more about MJ than the Bulls or even the NBA. Same with LeBron. You’ll see it with the younger generation as well. LeBron vs Kobe hit about 100x time harder than Brady vs Peyton at its peak or Sid vs Ovy etc. There’s gunna be crazy narratives by some people for every generation.

You can pick apart any generation. As the talent level continues to grow and the game becomes more global you’ll be seeing the same thing about this era in 20 years. Just how things go. The 16 year old kid doesn’t think Jordan had a left hand and the 45 year old guy doesn’t think LeBron could survive in the 90s. Both sides are delusional.

[Soundwave]

It’s because of how the NBA is marketed IMO. Individual players are above the team. You don’t see this stuff at the same level with sports like MLB/NHL/NFL. You have a % of fans who care more about MJ than the Bulls or even the NBA. Same with LeBron. You’ll see it with the younger generation as well. LeBron vs Kobe hit about 100x time harder than Brady vs Peyton at its peak or Sid vs Ovy etc. There’s gunna be crazy narratives by some people for every generation.

You can pick apart any generation. As the talent level continues to grow and the game becomes more global you’ll be seeing the same thing about this era in 20 years. Just how things go. The 16 year old kid doesn’t think Jordan had a left hand and the 45 year old guy doesn’t think LeBron could survive in the 90s. Both sides are delusional.

The left thing is so stupid too, lol, literally many of Jordan's most iconic moments are driving left.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ca/79/c5/ca79c5a7e7fb25185d625dcb5920d7d4.gif

https://gifdb.com/images/high/michael-jordan-nba-slam-dunk-e2ni66suog5lgqyz.gif

https://i0.wp.com/sneakerhistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/michael-jordan-the-shot.gif?resize=330%2C185&ssl=1

https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-16-2015/MO0JsQ.gif

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ff/8d/8c/ff8d8ca46b8390fe0163d5e665d216c7.gif

Put down the soy lattes and Fortnite gen Z, that's a brain dead take. This guy had near Iverson like quickness in a 6'6 body with explosive leaping ability in his peak/prime, he can go anywhere he wants on a basketball court and no one is gonna do a damn thing to stop him.

[FKAri]

Wait 'til you see the payback on this generation from future generations
Happens every generation. If basketball goes on long enough we'll redefine the "modern era" again. Like nowadays we have markers like shot clock era or the merger. And for most arguments we just pretend that everyone from before then was trash and not worth discussing.

[TheMan]

Yeah ok, basketball genius, the reason Jordan didn't take many 3s is his mid-range and attacking the hoop game was ridiculously efficient.

At the time the game was different, the thought process was always to try and get a high quality look from the mid range and even better yet at the rim. Now you can argue and kick and scream all you want, but that was how basketball was played then and coached then. You look for the best quality shot first and that generally meant closer to the basket.

We have a version of Jordan that shoots more threes ... that would be Kobe Bryant, there are downsides to that approach too. He was a less efficient player overall.

The other fact is Jordan is such a spectacular athlete that especially earlier in his career it simply would have been dumb to not attack the basket and dunk or finish at the rim, quite often getting a third point anyway from an and 1 situation.

In 20-30 years you'll have some dumb kid also saying how teams played basketball in the 2010s/2020s was stupid too, lol, that's the nature of these things.

Also I believe you are misunderstanding the stat I was citing, it was in games were Jordan shot more than something like 3 3s, his percentage was pretty comparable to modern players.
Yep, game was totally different. It was an inside out game and taking threes back then was seen as not putting pressure on the defense.

[Soundwave]

Yep, game was totally different. It was an inside out game and taking threes back then was seen as not putting pressure on the defense.

Most people who make these arguments never have played the game at any kind of competitive level, even in high school I remember if you just came down the court and chucked up a 3, you'd get your ass benched for that by just about any kind of coach.

The whole thinking then was you come down, you make 2-3 passes, look to feed the post player and try to get the high quality shot, which generally meant someone cutting to the rim.

[dankok8]

Jordan was below league average (not the league today, the league during when he played) every season of his career besides 2 when he had the normal 3PT line. Many of those seasons he was far below average. It’s insane to claim he was above average at 3s even for his era.

If he was capable of shooting 3s well but chose not to he’s an idiot. So it’s more likely he just took more 3s those two seasons because his shot was working.

That's true in the regular season. I was mainly thinking about his playoff 3pt shooting where he was comfortably above average.

[dankok8]

I dont think many people doubt if MJ practiced 3s more and took more he could shoot them like most stars of today. Although it wouldn't be entirely necessary since the spacing today is so ridiculous he'd have a field day running at the rim.

But from a larger perspective a lot of 90s guys act like it was the hand checking that made games so low scoring, when in actuality it was the fact 3 or 4 players in every starting lineup couldn't shoot long distance at all and were left wide open on the perimeter. Which left the paints packed and made it harder to drive or score.



Even if you look at the 72 win GOAT Bulls... Scottie Pippen took and made the most 3s on that team! :lol Pippen was the best long range shooter on the Bulls most winning team. Think about that.

Harper was a full time starter and was trash at 3s. Luc Longley and Rodman were full time starters and didn't hit a single 3 all season between the two of them. Trash spacing. MJ shot amazing at 43 3pt%.

It's not MJ that was trash or others superstars. It was the other guys that couldn't space the floor at all and it led to anemic offenses.

Scoring was lower due to less spacing. You're right about that. However there are other factors including hand checking, lack of 3 second rule, and lower pace which all made that era be low scoring compared to today.

[RRR3]

That's true in the regular season. I was mainly thinking about his playoff 3pt shooting where he was comfortably above average.
He shot 33.2% from 3 on low volume in the playoffs :biggums:

[dankok8]

He shot 33.2% from 3 on low volume in the playoffs :biggums:

His last two postseasons bring his average down a lot.

From 1985-1996, MJ shot 36.3% from 3pt range in the playoffs which is 4% above league average.

[RRR3]

His last two postseasons bring his average down a lot.

From 1985-1996, MJ shot 36.3% from 3pt range in the playoffs which is 4% above league average.
"If you don't include the times he shot bad, he did good"

:roll:

[Soundwave]

His last two postseasons bring his average down a lot.

From 1985-1996, MJ shot 36.3% from 3pt range in the playoffs which is 4% above league average.

36.3% in the modern game would about the same as many star players today in the playoffs.

People thinking all these dudes are putting up 40% in the playoffs probably need a reality check.

[tpols]

Scoring was lower due to less spacing. You're right about that. However there are other factors including hand checking, lack of 3 second rule, and lower pace which all made that era be low scoring compared to today.

The pace was low because of the lack of shooting. Teams were non stop trying to work the ball closer to the rim and into a crowded paint because of how post oriented offense was back then. Nobody was pulling up from deep right off the jump even if they were WIDE open because it was considered bad offense.

And maybe it was bad offense back then... but with the %'s even mediocre shooters today can hit it at? It's not a bad shot at all. Expending little energy to get a 3 point play. And it allows star players more room to operate with a 2pt motive when role players have to be tightly guard out to 25 feet.

I'm watching some of these old school games and it's insane how much even guards got sagged off of. Everybody was trying to post or slash. Nobody was willing to pull up and get hot from 3.

[Soundwave]

The pace was low because of the lack of shooting. Teams were non stop trying to work the ball closer to the rim and into a crowded paint because of how post oriented offense was back then. Nobody was pulling up from deep right off the jump even if they were WIDE open because it was considered bad offense.

And maybe it was bad offense back then... but with the %'s even mediocre shooters today can hit it at? It's not a bad shot at all. Expending little energy to get a 3 point play. And it allows star players more room to operate with a 2pt motive when role players have to be tightly guard out to 25 feet.

I'm watching some of these old school games and it's insane how much even guards got sagged off of. Everybody was trying to post or slash. Nobody was willing to pull up and get hot from 3.

All that really boils down to though is Jordan would score more in the current NBA, not less. 30 ppg in the late 90s would be more like 34-35 ppg today if not more.

His talent level was held back by an era that was still built around catering to big men.

Anyone who's played organized basketball at any reasonable level probably even knows this drill or rule ... a coach says you have to make 3 passes before you're allowed to take a shot.

The thinking was passing and rotating the ball around would get defenses slightly off their coverage and you had to go look and see if your post player had an easy post opportunity near the rim.

That doesn't mean it was "bad", it's just things were different before Steph Curry started jacking 3s from 5 feet behind the 3 point line and that being considered a good shot. It made sense in the past that you would want your post player to get a touch and see if you could get an easier basket first.

[FKAri]

Scoring was lower due to less spacing. You're right about that. However there are other factors including hand checking, lack of 3 second rule, and lower pace which all made that era be low scoring compared to today.

I think zone is also an underrated factor. With zone it's much easier to bother a big and force them to pick up their dribble. Defender don't have to full commit. He can stand in no man's land and keep feinting like he's going to come double. It's why passing is so much more valuable for a big compared to the past.

[Soundwave]

There are pros that go the other way too.

Jordan not being as dependent as modern players on the 3 point shot meant his higher efficiency mid-range/rim attack game was a work of art. He completely mastered the fundamentals of killing you at the rim and then as he matured as a player, in the mid-range too.

Kobe shot a lot more 3s, but it also led to him being a less efficient player that Jordan.

If your game is heavily built around a 3 point shot, yes it can be deadly when you are on, but the flipside to that coin is when the 3 isn't going as well, we see guys like even Steph and Durant get a lot less effective and that's led to their teams get bounced out of the playoffs. You could see Kobe shot himself out of games chasing a 3 point heater too. Jordan would just adjust and find more efficient ways to score.

You can see it with the Warriors too ... Steph is still a top offensive player, but the Warriors are barely a .500 team which is embarrassing, you put any version of Jordan still near his peak/prime on a team that has a fair bit of talent (Wiggins, Klay, Kuminga, CP3, etc.) on the roster and no way would be they be chugging along .500 barely, sometimes under.

[tpols]

All that really boils down to though is Jordan would score more in the current NBA, not less. 30 ppg in the late 90s would be more like 34-35 ppg today if not more.

His talent level was held back by an era that was still built around catering to big men.

Anyone who's played organized basketball at any reasonable level probably even knows this drill or rule ... a coach says you have to make 3 passes before you're allowed to take a shot.

The thinking was passing and rotating the ball around would get defenses slightly off their coverage and you had to go look and see if your post player had an easy post opportunity near the rim.

That doesn't mean it was "bad", it's just things were different before Steph Curry started jacking 3s from 5 feet behind the 3 point line and that being considered a good shot. It made sense in the past that you would want your post player to get a touch and see if you could get an easier basket first.

Nobodies arguing MJ wouldn't dominate today. He'd be even MORE dominant today. These videos are satire. The guy is literally running a comedy routine. Offenses back then weren't as prolific not because of MJ or Scottie but because guys like Rodman, Longley, and Harper were trash long range shooters and provided 0 spacing to their star teammates.

[dankok8]

The pace was low because of the lack of shooting. Teams were non stop trying to work the ball closer to the rim and into a crowded paint because of how post oriented offense was back then. Nobody was pulling up from deep right off the jump even if they were WIDE open because it was considered bad offense.

And maybe it was bad offense back then... but with the %'s even mediocre shooters today can hit it at? It's not a bad shot at all. Expending little energy to get a 3 point play. And it allows star players more room to operate with a 2pt motive when role players have to be tightly guard out to 25 feet.

I'm watching some of these old school games and it's insane how much even guards got sagged off of. Everybody was trying to post or slash. Nobody was willing to pull up and get hot from 3.

It's a tactical difference. Every team back then had a few guys that could hit threes but they just didn't take many.

Besides, the tactical shift towards so many threes didn't really start happening till about 10 years ago. The 1996 and 2012 NBA took about the same number of threes.

[Soundwave]

Even by 2005-2010 the conventional thought even on boards like this was "you can't win playing Steve Nash Phoenix Suns basketball". The thinking was their pace was too high and they were a shrimpy little team with a small ass center trying to shoot 3s tot a title.

[tpols]

Steve Nash and the Suns would've won a title if Robert Horry didn't go0n Steve Nash into the scorers table and get the whole team suspended on a bullshit technicality.

And that isn't basketball.

You guys played g0on ball because you couldn't play basketball. That's BIG trash!

[Soundwave]

Gen Z: "Just let Jordan go left"

https://i.gifer.com/MZ75.gif

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fc/5f/fc/fc5ffc547bcd7578a99d06ec0021ca6a.gif

https://j.gifs.com/yooobW.gif

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b5/c0/95/b5c095d186855dd1496b2a0df87d3c84.gif


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDq0mgUnMUQ

https://media.tenor.com/aqWYkmGPhUcAAAAi/you-sure-about-that-i-think-you-should-leave-with-tim-robinson.gif

This dude would murder this era and every other era.

[tpols]

The crazy thing about those top 3 gifs you posted is Jordan finished with his right hand every single time. You're almost making the satire seem true. :lol

Watch it close fellas... it's true.

[Soundwave]

The crazy thing about those top 3 gifs you posted is Jordan finished with his right hand every single time. You're almost making the satire seem true. :lol

Watch it close fellas... it's true.

That's just dumb, who cares which hand you shoot with, the point was somehow you force him to the left side of the court and it's some kind of magic formula.

Here's a pro-tip you get dunked on and no one gives a shit which hand you got dunked on with.

Jordan would murder this sorry sap league with it's optional defense and 6'8 centers and 130 points gifted out like free Halloween candy. He'd average 35 easy, go up from there in peak years (37/38/40+).

I'll just also say it ... there's no one in the league as entertaining today as that. Some of his plays are just sheer works of art, today some guys can jump high, but they can't do much of this shit in game, don't have the agility, dexterity, explosive first step, no one like that in the game today, no one ever really.

[tpols]

You just added a 4th gif where he used his right hand again. :lol

[Soundwave]

You just added a 4th gif where he used his right hand again. :lol

Are there extra points for dunking with your left hand? Or did you just magically invent that criteria as if it means anything.

I honestly wonder sometimes like what percentage of this board actually has even played basketball at a high school level even.

"Make the player go left" is like something you learn in 5th or 6th grade, it's the first defensive strategy almost any coach will tell you, it's laughable people think that somehow that's some secret formula for stopping the greatest scorer that ever played the game.

No one is staying in front of Michael Jordan in any era, he's simply too fast, he has speed damn near an Allen Iverson but in a 6'6 body with explosive vertical leap and hang time, huge hands, exceptional basketball I.Q. too so he simply doesn't take many low quality shots. You can't stay in front of him, he's not going to beat himself, and he'll dunk over anyone at the rim, picture perfect pull up shot too, great post game. Gets better in the clutch moments. There's no defensive scheme that's doing shit to this guy.

[tpols]

Gen Z: "Just let Jordan go left"

https://i.gifer.com/MZ75.gif

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fc/5f/fc/fc5ffc547bcd7578a99d06ec0021ca6a.gif

https://j.gifs.com/yooobW.gif

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b5/c0/95/b5c095d186855dd1496b2a0df87d3c84.gif




That's just dumb, who cares which hand you shoot with.



We talking about left hand versus right hand.

EVERY single highlight gif you posted was using the right hand. You know what that is relative to today where we have athletes who can go both ways? That's GARBAGE.

And this isn't entirely satirical on my end like it is the youtuber. Why was MJ so weak finishing with his left hand outside the one layup vs the Lakers? :lol

Guy was honestly BIG trash.

[Soundwave]

We talking about left hand versus right hand.

EVERY single highlight gif you posted was using the right hand. You know what that is relative to today where we have athletes who can go both ways? That's GARBAGE.

And this isn't entirely satirical on my end like it is the youtuber. Why was MJ so weak finishing with his left hand outside the one layup vs the Lakers? :lol

Guy was honestly BIG trash.

The context of the "debate" (stupid as it is) is about GOING LEFT on the basketball court. As in off the dribble. No one cares what hand you finish with.

From a coaching perspective you should generally try and dunk with your stronger hand, you have more control and more power on the finish making it harder to block/disrupt. That's true of today, 99% of in game dunks are from the player's dominant hand, doesn't matter if it's Shaq or Jordan or LeBron or Vince Carter or Giannis or Durant or whoever. Unless you are at a weird angle or would be blocked otherwise there's no reason to dunk with your off hand.

Again though that's something people who can't dunk or never really have tried to dunk in a game probably won't understand.

Any freaking 8th grader can do a left handed layup, lol, there's nothing impressive about that.

[Xiao Yao You]

The context of the "debate" (stupid as it is) is about GOING LEFT on the basketball court. As in off the dribble. No one cares what hand you finish with.

From a coaching perspective you should generally try and dunk with your stronger hand, you have more control and more power on the finish making it harder to block/disrupt. That's true of today, 99% of in game dunks are from the player's dominant hand, doesn't matter if it's Shaq or Jordan or LeBron or Vince Carter or Giannis or whoever.

Any freaking 8th grader can do a left handed layup, lol, there's nothing impressive about that.

ideally you finish with the hand opposite the defender but rarely do you even see guys that can lay it up that way properly anymore despite how highly skilled they all are

[SATAN]

"If you don't include the times he shot bad, he did good"

:roll:

dankok is easily the most disingenuous poster on ish. Guy acts like he's the authority on basketball yet started watching in '96. What a surprise he's an MJ stan. :oldlol:

[Soundwave]

ideally you finish with the hand opposite the defender but rarely do you even see guys that can lay it up that way properly anymore despite how highly skilled they all are

Lay up is different, any one can lay up a ball with either hand in the NBA, some dumb soy latte drinking child saying they can't is being a moron. Even the worst NBA player would dummy them 1 on 1.

A dunk though generally most players if it's a one handed dunk (which 90% of dunks are), the player will dunk with their stronger arm. Which they should. It's harder to disrupt, you have usually better control over the ball, and more power on the finish. No one really dunks with their off hand unless there's a reason to do it (ie: you would be blocked otherwise).

James Harden is a lefty he dunks mostly with his left hand, that doesn't magically mean he's the best player ever, lol.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/80/7e/77/807e776cdf4bce44720af68ef8c9429b.gif

[paksat]

people that watch players shoot 3's all day are surprised no one shot 3's in the 90s..

this dumb generation

..

guess what kids, none of your big men besides 2 people can do anything in the paint back then either.

[Soundwave]

people that watch players shoot 3's all day are surprised no one shot 3's in the 90s..

this dumb generation

..

guess what kids, none of your big men besides 2 people can do anything in the paint back then either.

People don't really understand for the majority of the history of basketball, the game was designed around the post player being dominant (center or power forward) and the offense running through that kind of player.

Jordan really changed the sport by becoming effectively the first player to completely dominate the sport from a wing position.

Since then the league has gone completely the other way to a soft, no post players, no rim protection, shoot 3s all day league. The league and what is it today would be easier for Jordan, not harder.

[RRR3]

people that watch players shoot 3's all day are surprised no one shot 3's in the 90s..

this dumb generation

..

guess what kids, none of your big men besides 2 people can do anything in the paint back then either.
You can’t fool us anymore, the videos being posted show 90s players were constantly missing open layups. Players today are just better on average. Deal with it nostalgia boy.

[paksat]

We talking about left hand versus right hand.

EVERY single highlight gif you posted was using the right hand. You know what that is relative to today where we have athletes who can go both ways? That's GARBAGE.

And this isn't entirely satirical on my end like it is the youtuber. Why was MJ so weak finishing with his left hand outside the one layup vs the Lakers? :lol

Guy was honestly BIG trash.

this guy right here right now lmao

iverson is someone that couldn't go left, guy was BIG trash apparently in your book too. He did that going against the most talented guards of any era: kobe, mcgrady, wade, vince, ray allen etc.

even tier 2 guards could light you up like finley, arenas

didn't matter dude dropped 33 ppg in his 30's going against real talent in the back court WITH real talent in the front court to back them up

I feel like you're just trying to piss jordan fans off. Dude dropped 30 ppg going against the best forwards/centers in the most physical era of the game WHILE shooting over 50% and not needing a 3 point shot, AND apparently not needing a left hand.

[paksat]

You can’t fool us anymore, the videos being posted show 90s players were constantly missing open layups. Players today are just better on average. Deal with it nostalgia boy.

oh you got me, hold up let me turn the tv on and watch your top of the line players take 5 steps on every layup while also palming the ball each time down. Can't miss out on this greatness

[RRR3]

That's just dumb, who cares which hand you shoot with, the point was somehow you force him to the left side of the court and it's some kind of magic formula.

Here's a pro-tip you get dunked on and no one gives a shit which hand you got dunked on with.

Jordan would murder this sorry sap league with it's optional defense and 6'8 centers and 130 points gifted out like free Halloween candy. He'd average 35 easy, go up from there in peak years (37/38/40+).

I'll just also say it ... there's no one in the league as entertaining today as that. Some of his plays are just sheer works of art, today some guys can jump high, but they can't do much of this shit in game, don't have the agility, dexterity, explosive first step, no one like that in the game today, no one ever really.
Jordan averaging 40 is absolutely hysterical. No team would allow him to shoot enough shots or play enough minutes to average that, it would be detrimental to his team. Jordan was an unreal shot jacker, people complain about Luka but he takes far less of his teams total shots. Luka takes 23.2% of his teams shots. In 1987, MJ took 31.9% of his teams shots :roll: Which would be the equivalent of Luka taking well over THIRTY-TWO shots a game. Combine that with the fact that Luka is good at 3s and MJ was not, the math simply doesn’t add up. He wouldn’t be allowed to average 40, it would simply be bad basketball. He’d average 35 max.

[RRR3]

oh you got me, hold up let me turn the tv on and watch your top of the line players take 5 steps on every layup while also palming the ball each time down. Can't miss out on this greatness
Crying into your Jordan pjs because your low skill era got exposed. Time for a nap and a bottle of warm milk, gramps, you’re getting all riled up.

[Nowoco]

A point a lot of people seem to gloss over or miss is that it's much harder to defend these days. Every guy is athletic and nearly everyone on the floor can shoot. The quick ball movement to find the wide open three ball is hard to slow down, let alone stop. Guys shoot from anywhere and have quick releases. It's less physical and you can make a case that they don't put as much effort on D as they used to but dont pretend that stopping long range marksmen isn't significantly more difficult than stopping a guy down low who takes 10 seconds to shoot after backing down. Basically there is no good way to stop a barrage of three pointers. It wasnt a problem years ago because few teams could shoot them well consistently. Now, a team can score 20 points in a couple of minutes and comebacks of 20+ happen almost every night. A 20 point lead in the 90s was basically game over.

[Street Hunger]

As the guy above said, the biggest differences players today are insanely insanely insanely athletic compared to the old days

[Xiao Yao You]

Lay up is different, any one can lay up a ball with either hand in the NBA, some dumb soy latte drinking child saying they can't is being a moron. Even the worst NBA player would dummy them 1 on 1.

A dunk though generally most players if it's a one handed dunk (which 90% of dunks are), the player will dunk with their stronger arm. Which they should. It's harder to disrupt, you have usually better control over the ball, and more power on the finish. No one really dunks with their off hand unless there's a reason to do it (ie: you would be blocked otherwise).

James Harden is a lefty he dunks mostly with his left hand, that doesn't magically mean he's the best player ever, lol.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/80/7e/77/807e776cdf4bce44720af68ef8c9429b.gif

how do you know anyone can lay it up with either hand? They rarely use anything but their dominant hand regardless of which side of the basket they are on and lay ups are an adventure for some

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AiFS1iLphM

[SATAN]

iverson is someone that couldn't go left

Interesting.

https://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/001/022/739/aiMJ_original.gif?1377199678

lol@MJ stans that act like he was the best defender ever. :oldlol:

Seriously, look at that weak low IQ defense. What the hell is that? :oldlol:

[tpols]

this guy right here right now lmao

iverson is someone that couldn't go left, guy was BIG trash apparently in your book too. He did that going against the most talented guards of any era: kobe, mcgrady, wade, vince, ray allen etc.

even tier 2 guards could light you up like finley, arenas

didn't matter dude dropped 33 ppg in his 30's going against real talent in the back court WITH real talent in the front court to back them up

I feel like you're just trying to piss jordan fans off. Dude dropped 30 ppg going against the best forwards/centers in the most physical era of the game WHILE shooting over 50% and not needing a 3 point shot, AND apparently not needing a left hand.

Don't you DARE threaten me with a good time pakdass. :lol

Cuz you know I'm about it.

:crazysam:

[TheMan]

You can’t fool us anymore, the videos being posted show 90s players were constantly missing open layups. Players today are just better on average. Deal with it nostalgia boy.

A great shooting game is when a team shoots almost 50%, that means they missed half their shots, a lot of them gimme attempts too. Any dude can make a video of any modern game, show all the misses and claim this era is garbage, and only idiots would believe it.

[TheMan]

BTW, it's now open war :lol


https://youtu.be/B16S663JY0k?si=NsU1hQdbgklgCcWG

[TheMan]

Interesting.

https://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/001/022/739/aiMJ_original.gif?1377199678

lol@MJ stans that act like he was the best defender ever. :oldlol:

Seriously, look at that weak low IQ defense. What the hell is that? :oldlol:

Iverson said in a later interview that he gave MJ his best crossover move and that he was surprised MJ recovered quick enough to almost block his shot, and this was a past his prime MJ.


https://www.basketballnetwork.net/latest-news/allen-iverson-gives-a-different-take-on-the-iconic-crossover-against-jordan

At least MJ tried on defense as an old man, unlike your mancrush whose been a turnstile on D going on to almost a decade now :lol

[RRR3]

TheStan crying into his Jordan Jammies :roll:

[tpols]

BTW, it's now open war :lol


https://youtu.be/B16S663JY0k?si=NsU1hQdbgklgCcWG

This is just so corny.

And I'm white. Not that white people cant be funny George Carlin and Bill Burr are two of my favorite comics.

That bit is just so dry and has no humor in it. It's autistic pretty much.

It's... garbage.

[SATAN]

Iverson said in a later interview that he gave MJ his best crossover move and that he was surprised MJ recovered quick enough to almost block his shot, and this was a past his prime MJ.




You seemingly missed the point of why I posted it. As expected.

[SATAN]

TheStan crying into his Jordan Jammies :roll:

:oldlol:

[TheMan]

This is just so corny.

And I'm white. Not that white people cant be funny George Carlin and Bill Burr are two of my favorite comics.

That bit is just so dry and has no humor in it. It's autistic pretty much.

It's... garbage.
Bill Burr on Steph Curry lol, from a few years back...


https://youtu.be/TEOAkuZcl40?si=FBKSYMuPMiyJudKP

[TheMan]

You seemingly missed the point of why I posted it. As expected.

G'ahead and enlighten me, why did you post that? You said that was a low IQ defensive attempt, AI later said he was surprised MJ recovered quick enough to almost block his shot :facepalm

[SATAN]

You still don't get it.

[dankok8]

Enjoy! I thought he could only score with his right...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr2G8Vg5dfM

[dankok8]

dankok is easily the most disingenuous poster on ish. Guy acts like he's the authority on basketball yet started watching in '96. What a surprise he's an MJ stan. :oldlol:

So just because I started following the NBA in 1996, that means I couldn't have possibly watched games before that?

[Soundwave]

Jordan averaging 40 is absolutely hysterical. No team would allow him to shoot enough shots or play enough minutes to average that, it would be detrimental to his team. Jordan was an unreal shot jacker, people complain about Luka but he takes far less of his teams total shots. Luka takes 23.2% of his teams shots. In 1987, MJ took 31.9% of his teams shots :roll: Which would be the equivalent of Luka taking well over THIRTY-TWO shots a game. Combine that with the fact that Luka is good at 3s and MJ was not, the math simply doesn’t add up. He wouldn’t be allowed to average 40, it would simply be bad basketball. He’d average 35 max.

You have to be willing to shoot if you want to score big numbers, so what. Luka isn't in the shape Jordan was at that age, Jordan would outscore him without much fuss.

Luke isn't even on Jordan's planet athletically if you're talking about any version of Jordan in his 20s or early 30s. Not even close.

He'd murder this current league. You know you'd absolutely dominate when even the people trying to pour cold water on the subject admit he'd average 35 in the current league, lol.

There is no era, no version of the NBA where he wouldn't dominate, just is what it is.

The current NBA is ridiculously lop sided in favor of guards and wing players, it wasn't when Jordan played, he IS a big part of the reason the entire sport shifted away from being center/post dominant for it's entire previous history. Jordan would benefit from that, not the other way around.

[warriorfan]

Jordan averaging 40 is absolutely hysterical. No team would allow him to shoot enough shots or play enough minutes to average that, it would be detrimental to his team. Jordan was an unreal shot jacker, people complain about Luka but he takes far less of his teams total shots. Luka takes 23.2% of his teams shots. In 1987, MJ took 31.9% of his teams shots :roll: Which would be the equivalent of Luka taking well over THIRTY-TWO shots a game. Combine that with the fact that Luka is good at 3s and MJ was not, the math simply doesn’t add up. He wouldn’t be allowed to average 40, it would simply be bad basketball. He’d average 35 max.

how many full mj games have you watched?

[1987_Lakers]

If you transport MJ in today's league the only way he averages 40 is if he's on a bad team, but even that is stretching it. Maybe if he had a 3 point shot he would, but we know he didn't.

[RRR3]

If you transport MJ in today's league the only way he averages 40 is if he's on a bad team, but even that is stretching it. Maybe if he had a 3 point shot he would, but we know he didn't.
He’d have to take 30+ shots a game to get 40 the way he played. No coach is allowing that or the necessary minutes either. The most we’ve seen any guard average without a great 3 recently is 31ish by SGA, and even he is a better 3pt shooter than MJ. 35 max is perfectly reasonable only stans who sleep in space jam pjs think otherwise. On a contender he probably is around 30/7/8. If we’re transporting MJ we’re transporting him as he was not a hypothetical where he can shoot 3s well. Which means him averaging 40 is not remotely viable. Not even close.

[Soundwave]

He’d have to take 30+ shots a game to get 40 the way he played. No coach is allowing that or the necessary minutes either. The most we’ve seen any guard average without a great 3 recently is 31ish by SGA, and even he is a better 3pt shooter than MJ. 35 max is perfectly reasonable only stans who sleep in space jam pjs think otherwise.

He could average more than that if he wanted to, he was averaging 30 ppg still in the dead ball late 90s in his mid-30s.

A 27/28 year old Jordan in a league where there's 115 ppg scored *on average*, lol, that's 20% increase from the 1997/98. If he takes 37-38 ppg off 115 ppg, that's still plenty of points for the rest of the team. And 115 ppg is *an average* amount in today's no defense garbage setup, lol, Jordan by virtue of being on any team would likely elevate them above 115 ppg because I doubt they would be just average offensively.

The current NBA is ridiculously slanted towards guards, the league even in the 90s was still in the midst of being played the same way it had been for decades prior.

He'd be the best player in the league by a country mile, Luka Doncic ... LOL. Luka has maybe 1/15th of the athleticism of a Michael Jordan at his age and I like Luka, but lets get real.

[RRR3]

You have to be willing to shoot if you want to score big numbers, so what. Luka isn't in the shape Jordan was at that age, Jordan would outscore him without much fuss.

Luke isn't even on Jordan's planet athletically if you're talking about any version of Jordan in his 20s or early 30s. Not even close.

He'd murder this current league. You know you'd absolutely dominate when even the people trying to pour cold water on the subject admit he'd average 35 in the current league, lol.

There is no era, no version of the NBA where he wouldn't dominate, just is what it is.

The current NBA is ridiculously lop sided in favor of guards and wing players, it wasn't when Jordan played, he IS a big part of the reason the entire sport shifted away from being center/post dominant for it's entire previous history. Jordan would benefit from that, not the other way around.
The most 3PM per game he ever averaged with the real line is 1.1. In 39 MPG. He’s not being allowed to play 39 MPG today so at most he’s making 1 3 a game. This isn’t some hypothetical “what if MJ grew up in todays era” you are taking him as is because that’s the guy you said would average 40 not imaginary MJ who was a great 3pt shooter. Let’s be generous and say he makes 1 3 a game in 35-37 MPG or whatever he’s allowed to play. That’s 3 points right there. He’s probably taking 20-21 2pt shots then. Let’s be generous and say he averages 12 2PT makes a night. That’s 27 points total. He probably gets to the a bit under 10 times a game and makes around 8. That puts us at 35 PPG. That’s me being generous too. There simply isn’t rational math for him averaging 40 in 35-37 MPG with only 1 made 3 a night. On the volume of shots he’d be allowed to take he’d have to convert well over 70% of his 2PT shots. That isn’t coming close to happening even Giannis is far for from that.

[RRR3]

You have to be willing to shoot if you want to score big numbers, so what. Luka isn't in the shape Jordan was at that age, Jordan would outscore him without much fuss.

Luke isn't even on Jordan's planet athletically if you're talking about any version of Jordan in his 20s or early 30s. Not even close.

He'd murder this current league. You know you'd absolutely dominate when even the people trying to pour cold water on the subject admit he'd average 35 in the current league, lol.

There is no era, no version of the NBA where he wouldn't dominate, just is what it is.

The current NBA is ridiculously lop sided in favor of guards and wing players, it wasn't when Jordan played, he IS a big part of the reason the entire sport shifted away from being center/post dominant for it's entire previous history. Jordan would benefit from that, not the other way around.
The most 3PM per game he ever averaged with the real line is 1.1. In 39 MPG. He’s not being allowed to play 39 MPG today so at most he’s making 1 3 a game. This isn’t some hypothetical “what if MJ grew up in todays era” you are taking him as is because that’s the guy you said would average 40 not imaginary MJ who was a great 3pt shooter. Let’s be generous and say he makes 1 3 a game in 35-37 MPG or whatever he’s allowed to play. That’s 3 points right there. He’s probably taking 20-21 2pt shots then. Let’s be generous and say he averages 12 2PT makes a night. That’s 27 points total. He probably gets to the a bit under 10 times a game and makes around 8. That puts us at 35 PPG. That’s me being generous too. There simply isn’t rational math for him averaging 40 in 35-37 MPG with only 1 made 3 a night. On the volume of shots he’d be allowed to take he’d have to convert well over 70% of his 2PT shots. That isn’t coming close to happening even Giannis is far for from that.

[1987_Lakers]

He could average more than that if he wanted to, he was averaging 30 ppg still in the dead ball late 90s in his mid-30s.

A 27/28 year old Jordan in a league where there's 115 ppg scored *on average*, lol, that's 20% increase from the 1997/98.

It's a bit more complicated than that.

Hakeem averaged more points in the 90's compared to the 80's despite the 80's being more offensive friendly.

Karl Malone averaged 28 ppg in '88 when teams averaged 108 ppg

Malone averaged 27 ppg in '97 in a much slower pace era where teams averaged 97 ppg.

[tpols]

You guys realize Kobe averaged 35+ ppg on a team that averaged less than 100 points per game right?

If Kobe could do that it's entirely feasible MJ could do 40 when teams nowadays are averaging between 115 and 120 points per game.

[1987_Lakers]

You guys realize Kobe averaged 35+ ppg on a team that averaged less than 100 points per game right?

If Kobe could do that it's entirely feasible MJ could do 40 when teams nowadays are averaging between 115 and 120 points per game.

He did that on a pretty bad team. Once he got Gasol he never averaged 30 again.

[tpols]

He did that on a pretty bad team. Once he got Gasol he never averaged 30 again.

Kobe had averaged 30 with prime Shaq on GOAT Laker teams before in super slow era so that doesn't really add up.

2006 Lakers finished 45-37, they weren't some lotto team. Of course Kobe carried them to that but MJ was a rich clone of Kobe so what you're saying doesn't make any sense that Jordan couldn't do an extra couple points per game when teams today are scoring way more points per game.

[1987_Lakers]

Kobe had averaged 30 with prime Shaq on GOAT Laker teams before in super slow era so that doesn't really add up.

2006 Lakers finished 45-37, they weren't some lotto team. Of course Kobe carried them to that but MJ was a rich clone of Kobe so what you're saying doesn't make any sense that Jordan couldn't do an extra couple points per game when teams today are scoring way more points per game.

Determining what a player would average just based on how offensive friendly an era is just doesn't work. 80's and 90's were two different eras in terms of how teams scored. 80's had high scoring games and the 90's was more slow paced, yet you didn't see stars average less points in the 90's.

[FKAri]

He could average more than that if he wanted to, he was averaging 30 ppg still in the dead ball late 90s in his mid-30s.

A 27/28 year old Jordan in a league where there's 115 ppg scored *on average*, lol, that's 20% increase from the 1997/98. If he takes 37-38 ppg off 115 ppg, that's still plenty of points for the rest of the team. And 115 ppg is *an average* amount in today's no defense garbage setup, lol, Jordan by virtue of being on any team would likely elevate them above 115 ppg because I doubt they would be just average offensively.

The current NBA is ridiculously slanted towards guards, the league even in the 90s was still in the midst of being played the same way it had been for decades prior.

He'd be the best player in the league by a country mile, Luka Doncic ... LOL. Luka has maybe 1/15th of the athleticism of a Michael Jordan at his age and I like Luka, but lets get real.

What kind of cartoon logic are you guys using in this thread? "if he's 13.73% better that means he'd average 13.73% more points!". Why would MJ be averaging 40 today? How bad is this team that it needs a guy to put up 30 something shots a night and tire himself out over the course of a season. Shot jacking is less viable today than in the past although ball domination is more viable. So while MJ's not getting to 40 points he'll be racking up assists like in 89.

I think you put him in today's league and sure he'd be great but he wouldn't stand out in the regular season the way he did in his time. The way defenses operate in the regular season don't provide enough resistance to really challenge the elite scorers so they all hover around a similar level in the regular season. A lot of pretenders can put up big numbers too. But in the playoffs the separation between MJ and every other scorer would really be apparent.

[Im so nba'd out]

The good thing about this trend on TikTok is it brought one of my favorite YouTube channels out of retirement



https://youtu.be/d1pELGsSfWc?si=HishRN5K2ft3s5Mc



Thank you gen z :cheers::banana::hammertime::party:

[Soundwave]

What kind of cartoon logic are you guys using in this thread? "if he's 13.73% better that means he'd average 13.73% more points!". Why would MJ be averaging 40 today? How bad is this team that it needs a guy to put up 30 something shots a night and tire himself out over the course of a season. Shot jacking is less viable today than in the past although ball domination is more viable. So while MJ's not getting to 40 points he'll be racking up assists like in 89.

I think you put him in today's league and sure he'd be great but he wouldn't stand out in the regular season the way he did in his time. The way defenses operate in the regular season don't provide enough resistance to really challenge the elite scorers so they all hover around a similar level in the regular season. A lot of pretenders can put up big numbers too. But in the playoffs the separation between MJ and every other scorer would really be apparent.

lol, he'd stand out and dominate because Jordan would make it a point to do so, he won every scoring title every full season he played in from his second full season onwards not by accident but because he was proving a point that he was the best. It would be no different in today's game except his scoring numbers would be even higher than they were back then.

If you're scoring 120 points a game as a team, as a coach you'd be a moron to not let Jordan have 35-38+ points of that pie easy, who the **** else are you running plays for? You really gonna run shit for a Terry Rozier or Kuminga tier player over a 20-something Michael Jordan? lulz. At 38 ppg even, there's still comfortably enough for a 2nd option to get their 20 ppg in, a third option at 15-16 ppg, and a couple of role players at around 10 ppg no sweat and some gravy for your bench guys.

In a league that gifts out points like a grandma giving out free Halloween candy, there's plenty for everyone to go around.

[Xiao Yao You]

Ball Don’t Lie: “I said the same thing about the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s. It’s cute.” (https://*********.com/social/) Shaquille O’Neal to @VinceGoodwill on the ‘We done with the 90’s’ trend 👀 pic.twitter.com/ltv1Q5v1o7

[TheMan]

Ball Don’t Lie: “I said the same thing about the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s. It’s cute.” (https://*********.com/social/) Shaquille O’Neal to @VinceGoodwill on the ‘We done with the 90’s’ trend �� pic.twitter.com/ltv1Q5v1o7

Dead link

[Xiao Yao You]

I was always amazed at what Wilt, Russell, Big O, etc. had done myself

[dankok8]

On a contender MJ averages 33/7/7 but on a bad team 40/8/8 isn't out of the question. MJ would be impossible to stop from getting to the rim in today's NBA. He probably gets 6-7 dunks or easy lay ups per game and like 15 FTA. From that alone he's already close to 30 ppg.

[SATAN]

:facepalm

[Phoenix]

The most MJ could average in this era isn't really all that important. Really its about what he would average within the context of a championship team and system, and anywhere from 30-33 is likely. Most of these all-time scorers could average more than we've seen in the right situation. KD hasn't hit 32 since 2014 and he's considered what, a top 3 perimeter scorer ever? Really think he couldn't average 35 all these years? Luka is dropping 35 now but I guarantee you if he ever sniffs a chip, shave 3-4 points off that.

[RRR3]

On a contender MJ averages 33/7/7 but on a bad team 40/8/8 isn't out of the question. MJ would be impossible to stop from getting to the rim in today's NBA. He probably gets 6-7 dunks or easy lay ups per game and like 15 FTA. From that alone he's already close to 30 ppg.
This is really the mind of Mikey mythologists :oldlol:


15 fta :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Baller234]

What you gotta consider about Jordan playing in today's league is that he wouldn't be burdened with having to score all of his team's points, because any team he's on is going to have A LOT of open threes.

He easily COULD average 40 a game today, but I don't think he would. Maybe if he were on a total shit team.

[dankok8]

This is really the mind of Mikey mythologists :oldlol:

15 fta :roll: :roll: :roll:

Of course. Most teams in the league today play with little shotblocking presence and the spacing means that MJ can go one on one with defenders who can't touch him. Not to mention the faster pace so more fast break opportunities.

The only thing stopping MJ from getting to the rim every time is stamina but young MJ had an insane motor.

For the record, I also think prime Lebron could easily average 35 ppg in this era.

[Reggie43]

He was already averaging 33 a game in the playoffs back then Im pretty sure he could do better than that in a much faster paced league with rule changes that favor the offense.

[Baller234]

He was already averaging 33 a game in the playoffs back then Im pretty sure he could do better than that in a much faster paced league with rule changes that favor the offense.

He had a lot less help on offense back then though. He HAD to score more points.

Teams are loaded with offense now. Spacing. Shooting in every direction.

He would be a lot more prone to kick out after collapsing the D.

[RRR3]

Of course. Most teams in the league today play with little shotblocking presence and the spacing means that MJ can go one on one with defenders who can't touch him. Not to mention the faster pace so more fast break opportunities.

The only thing stopping MJ from getting to the rim every time is stamina but young MJ had an insane motor.

For the record, I also think prime Lebron could easily average 35 ppg in this era.
So he’s getting 3 more free throw attempts per game than GIANNIS?????? He could average 35 with a weak supporting cast. 40 is absurd and not happening.

[dankok8]

So he’s getting 3 more free throw attempts per game than GIANNIS?????? He could average 35 with a weak supporting cast. 40 is absurd and not happening.

Prime MJ had a quicker first step, better handle and better stamina than Giannis to keep attacking the rim so yea..

[Xiao Yao You]

He averaged 37 in '87. Who could slow him down today?

[Reggie43]

He had a lot less help on offense back then though. He HAD to score more points.

Teams are loaded with offense now. Spacing. Shooting in every direction.

He would be a lot more prone to kick out after collapsing the D.

Or he could drive to the basket more because of the aforementioned spacing and shooting thus scoring more points.

[SATAN]

The only thing stopping MJ from getting to the rim every time is stamina

You are better than this.

[SATAN]

Or he could drive to the basket more because of the aforementioned spacing and shooting thus scoring more points.

The defense usually moves in on guys like that. He would be kicking it out more imo. It's not man on man no more. People are completely oversimplifying the game itself.

[Reggie43]

The defense usually moves in on guys like that. He would be kicking it out more imo. It's not man on man no more. People are completely oversimplifying the game itself.

You really think a modern era defense would deter Jordan from going to the rim?

[SATAN]

I'm saying he'd probably be kicking it out more and he'd likely be shooting more 3s himself if he played in this era. What's taking it to the rim over and over again against a firing prime Warriors or something going to achieve?

[Soundwave]

So he’s getting 3 more free throw attempts per game than GIANNIS?????? He could average 35 with a weak supporting cast. 40 is absurd and not happening.

40 ppg on 120 point scoring team (lets say, 115 ppg is the average right now, a team with a young Jordan likely would be above average offensively) isn't really that much different from scoring 30-32 ppg on a team averaging 96-99 ppg.

Would he want to do that? I don't know, if he was motivated to do it for whatever reason I wouldn't exactly fall out of my chair. There's no way knowing what we know about how Jordan thinks that he'd let a Luka Doncic win a scoring title away from him.

He averaged 37 ppg in a lower scoring, lower pace league that was still designed almost exclusively around center-based offensive structure.

A league that is designed almost exclusively for scoring guards/wings would help him, not hinder him.

[Phoenix]

Has anyone ever considered that the bigger increase in MJs numbers would be assists? If hes playing in a modern offense he's gonna have 3 point guys on the wings that he'd be kicking it to that he didnt have access to. In general hes gonna have more scoring weapons around him.

You guys are so fixated on whether he scores 32, 35, 40, whatever...I'm inclined to think he's averaging 8 assists plus every year moreso that the mental gymnastics I see arguing over what he scores. And that's just taking MJ as he was and putting him in 2024, not all these hypothetical 'well MJ would work on the 3 more and get 15 free threes etc etc'. All of that is hypothetical/ theoretical and may or may not be true to varying degrees, but he is easily going to have higher assist numbers especially since he wont be in an assist capping offense like the Triangle, and no mental fukkery required to support that claim.

[tpols]

A lot of old heads love to talk about hand checking.

Watch this video @ 1:00 mark.


https://youtu.be/m_TmYDGEM3I?si=pCGIAuocTH2AZOXJ

They called that a foul??? :facepalm

The announcer even said "that looked like a handcheck on the replay" to try and justify it. I thought that was legal? And if that's a handcheck that's some weak ass shit.

[Carbine]

Didn't James Harden average 37 recently?

If Jordan had it as a goal of his to get 40 points per game he could absolutely do it. He averaged 33.4 ppg in the playoffs for his career, not hard to see him doing 40 a game in a soft regular season if that was his sole focus

[Kblaze8855]

A lot of old heads love to talk about hand checking.

Watch this video @ 1:00 mark.


https://youtu.be/m_TmYDGEM3I?si=pCGIAuocTH2AZOXJ

They called that a foul??? :facepalm

The announcer even said "that looked like a handcheck on the replay" to try and justify it. I thought that was legal? And if that's a handcheck that's some weak ass shit.

legal in the way carrying is legal now. Just a different emphasis on rules they don’t bother to fully rewrite. They banned it entirely in 2005 outside the post.

[tpols]

legal in the way carrying is legal now. Just a different emphasis on rules they don’t bother to fully rewrite. They banned it entirely in 2005 outside the post.


Man... did you watch that tape? All the defender did was slide in front and shield himself with his left arm on the contact from Jordan. He played the drive perfect on D. Guessed correct 100% in his slide. And they blew the whistle and put him in foul trouble.

If you called something like that on the playground even today you'd be laughed at and called a *****. And that's what they were handing out in the 90s to Mr. Golden Boy MJ?

WE DONE WITH THE 90s.

[RRR3]

Didn't James Harden average 37 recently?

If Jordan had it as a goal of his to get 40 points per game he could absolutely do it. He averaged 33.4 ppg in the playoffs for his career, not hard to see him doing 40 a game in a soft regular season if that was his sole focus
Harden is an elite 3PT shooter. How is MJ scoring 40 making 1 3 a game max? It would take him so many shots a coach wouldn’t allow it.

[Norcaliblunt]

Gen Z needs their corporate idols too.

Gods come and go then are recycled again.

Jordan? Lebron? Same shit different year.

[tpols]

Gen Z needs their corporate idols too.

Gods come and go then are recycled again.

Jordan? Lebron? Same shit different year.

NBA aka WWE.

Been saying this since before these videos ever surfaced.

[warriorfan]

Harden is an elite 3PT shooter. How is MJ scoring 40 making 1 3 a game max? It would take him so many shots a coach wouldn’t allow it.

I think you may have not read this post. Read it.


40 ppg on 120 point scoring team (lets say, 115 ppg is the average right now, a team with a young Jordan likely would be above average offensively) isn't really that much different from scoring 30-32 ppg on a team averaging 96-99 ppg.

Would he want to do that? I don't know, if he was motivated to do it for whatever reason I wouldn't exactly fall out of my chair. There's no way knowing what we know about how Jordan thinks that he'd let a Luka Doncic win a scoring title away from him.

He averaged 37 ppg in a lower scoring, lower pace league that was still designed almost exclusively around center-based offensive structure.

A league that is designed almost exclusively for scoring guards/wings would help him, not hinder him.

[Norcaliblunt]

NBA aka WWE.

Been saying this since before these videos ever surfaced.

Yeah it’s obviously manipulated. From the game itself all the way to the media’s representation.

I bet the numbers and money is rigged too.

Nothing adds up.

[1987_Lakers]

This is getting crazy. :oldlol:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPZ_HlpI8x8

[90sgoat]

This is getting crazy. :oldlol:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPZ_HlpI8x8

This is a dumb vid.

If players today are better, why are they losing all the time to Australia and Europe?

Basketball is not NBA2K but the NBA players play like it, they can only carry-dribble and hit open 3s.

[90sgoat]

Has anyone ever considered that the bigger increase in MJs numbers would be assists? If hes playing in a modern offense he's gonna have 3 point guys on the wings that he'd be kicking it to that he didnt have access to. In general hes gonna have more scoring weapons around him.

You guys are so fixated on whether he scores 32, 35, 40, whatever...I'm inclined to think he's averaging 8 assists plus every year moreso that the mental gymnastics I see arguing over what he scores. And that's just taking MJ as he was and putting him in 2024, not all these hypothetical 'well MJ would work on the 3 more and get 15 free threes etc etc'. All of that is hypothetical/ theoretical and may or may not be true to varying degrees, but he is easily going to have higher assist numbers especially since he wont be in an assist capping offense like the Triangle, and no mental fukkery required to support that claim.

I think MJ averages a triple double pretty easily.

He was a very good rebounder for his size, remember he already averaged 32-8-8 in the late 80s and got 6 rebounds at age 39 in 2002.

He definitely would average 10+ rebounds today and like you say 8-10 assists pr. game should be rather easy.

I could see him averaging a trip dup for his career if he came into the league now.

[1987_Lakers]

I think MJ averages a triple double pretty easily.

https://media.tenor.com/rmtvkkGm7xYAAAAM/laugh-cant-hold-it-in.gif

[1987_Lakers]

This is a dumb vid.

If players today are better, why are they losing all the time to Australia and Europe?

Basketball is not NBA2K but the NBA players play like it, they can only carry-dribble and hit open 3s.

You obviously didn't watch the entire vid. He defends the 90's, just says the average player today is better than they were 30 years ago.

[90sgoat]

You obviously didn't watch the entire vid. He defends the 90's, just says the average player today is better than they were 30 years ago.

The average player is not better.

The average player is a clone of a 3-and-D guard. Their bag is actually very limited. They can shoot open corner 3s and some of them can carry-dribble on the spot for 10 seconds to get half the separation that MJ got with a headfake.

I've watched Mavs the last 5 years. I've watched "the average player" like Dorian Finney-Smith who could not take two dribbles with travelling, Reggie Bullock who could not dribble at all, Dwight Howard who had literally no game but catching a lob.

The average player today is trash. The average player today is just a cardio machine that can hit corner 3s. That's it.

[RRR3]

I think you may have not read this post. Read it.
I already answered this :facepalm



The most 3PM per game he ever averaged with the real line is 1.1. In 39 MPG. He’s not being allowed to play 39 MPG today so at most he’s making 1 3 a game. This isn’t some hypothetical “what if MJ grew up in todays era” you are taking him as is because that’s the guy you said would average 40 not imaginary MJ who was a great 3pt shooter. Let’s be generous and say he makes 1 3 a game in 35-37 MPG or whatever he’s allowed to play. That’s 3 points right there. He’s probably taking 20-21 2pt shots then. Let’s be generous and say he averages 12 2PT makes a night. That’s 27 points total. He probably gets to the a bit under 10 times a game and makes around 8. That puts us at 35 PPG. That’s me being generous too. There simply isn’t rational math for him averaging 40 in 35-37 MPG with only 1 made 3 a night. On the volume of shots he’d be allowed to take he’d have to convert well over 70% of his 2PT shots. That isn’t coming close to happening even Giannis is far for from that.

He's not averaging 40 unless some coach lets him to the detriment of the team. No coach is allowing him that many minutes or shots.

[1987_Lakers]

The average player is not better.

The average player is a clone of a 3-and-D guard.

And the average player in the 90's was a bruiser power forward with limited offensive skills who wouldn't even make a team today.

[90sgoat]

And the average player in the 90's was a bruiser power forward with limited offensive skills who wouldn't even make a team today.

Nope, that was the average power forward, because back then there was diversity in playstyle and position game. It was a game that had a variety of body types and playstyles. It was teams having the freedom to find uses for different types of players. It didn't try to fit every player into a boring 3-and-D wing, which is literally 90% of the game today.

[Xiao Yao You]

And the average player in the 90's was a bruiser power forward with limited offensive skills who wouldn't even make a team today.

A lot of good bruising 4's. They still be around they'd probably be playing the 5 though

[1987_Lakers]

A lot of good bruising 4's. They still be around they'd probably be playing the 5 though

Good luck having A.C. Green as your main rim protector.

[RRR3]

Good luck having A.C. Green as your main rim protector.
Yeah there were a lot of 4s like that who didn't block shots at all but would have to be 5s today. Delusional old boomers can't admit their era was worse. Sad.

[Xiao Yao You]

Good luck having A.C. Green as your main rim protector.

why would he be your main rim protector? He could shoot and run the floor. Not hard to imagine him playing today

[1987_Lakers]

why would he be your main rim protector? He could shoot and run the floor. Not hard to imagine him playing today

Considering you just said he would play the 5. :oldlol:

[Xiao Yao You]

Considering you just said he would play the 5. :oldlol:

I never mentioned him or that he was starting

[Xiao Yao You]

He was all D 2nd team one year

[1987_Lakers]

Nope, that was the average power forward, because back then there was diversity in playstyle and position game. It was a game that had a variety of body types and playstyles. It was teams having the freedom to find uses for different types of players. It didn't try to fit every player into a boring 3-and-D wing, which is literally 90% of the game today.

Diversity in playstyle? 90's was full of ISO ball, mainly because of the "illegal defense" rule. Go watch those Bulls-Jazz Finals. It was basically MJ ISO with everybody else on the other side of the court and vice versa for Malone, very little creativity. Once the NBA took out that rule and zone was allowed, ISO wasn't as successful, offenses eventually caught up and realized you need shooters to keep defenders honest. This is why the bruiser PF with no offensive game is basically extinct in today's league. The league has evolved.

And teams/coaches back then didn't value the 3 point shot. History has shown that they were stupid to feel this way, it's pretty insane to think what would happen if you put a team from today back in 1997 with a short 3 point line. :oldlol:

[RRR3]

Diversity in playstyle? 90's was full of ISO ball, mainly because of the "illegal defense" rule. Go watch those Bulls-Jazz Finals. It was basically MJ ISO with everybody else on the other side of the court and vice versa for Malone, very little creativity. Once the NBA took out that rule and zone was allowed, ISO wasn't as successful, offenses eventually caught up and realized you need shooters to keep defenders honest. This is why the bruiser PF with no offensive game is basically extinct in today's league. The league has evolved.

And teams/coaches back then didn't value the 3 point shot. History has shown that they were stupid to feel this way, it's pretty insane to think what would happen if you put a team from today back in 1997 with a short 3 point line. :oldlol:
The Sacramento Kings would obliterate the league if you put them into 1997 for instance. Teams were just bad at math back then.

[Xiao Yao You]

Diversity in playstyle? 90's was full of ISO ball, mainly because of the "illegal defense" rule. Go watch those Bulls-Jazz Finals. It was basically MJ ISO with everybody else on the other side of the court and vice versa for Malone, very little creativity. Once the NBA took out that rule and zone was allowed, ISO wasn't as successful, offenses eventually caught up and realized you need shooters to keep defenders honest. This is why the bruiser PF with no offensive game is basically extinct in today's league. The league has evolved.

And teams/coaches back then didn't value the 3 point shot. History has shown that they were stupid to feel this way, it's pretty insane to think what would happen if you put a team from today back in 1997 with a short 3 point line. :oldlol:

who are these bruisers with no offensive game you're talking about? Rodman and? Malone didn't iso. Jazz played as a team. The Bum wouldn't have got on the floor.

[1987_Lakers]

who are these bruisers with no offensive game you're talking about? Rodman and? Malone didn't iso. Jazz played as a team. The Bum wouldn't have got on the floor.

:facepalm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9axxv6FqFo

[dankok8]

The same logic y'all are using against the 90's having less shooting applies to the NBA until around 2012. If you look at the best teams in the NBA from 2000-2012, few of them had more than 1-2 good 3pt shooters. It's only in 2013 that the process of teams piling up shooters started and even then it took a few years until 2016 or 2017 to really become prevalent and 3pt shooting radically changed the NBA.

And another thing that keeps going past your heads. Changes can be tactical and not skill-based. For example, say hypothetically the NBA removed the 3pt line. Suddenly there'd be a lot of bigs playing in the post because that would be by far the most efficient shot. Y'all would say that the players are more talented in the post when it's just the nature of the game that led to tactical changes.

[1987_Lakers]

The same logic y'all are using against the 90's having less shooting applies to the NBA until around 2012. If you look at the best teams in the NBA from 2000-2012, few of them had more than 1-2 good 3pt shooters. It's only in 2013 that the process of teams piling up shooters started and even then it took a few years until 2016 or 2017 to really become prevalent and 3pt shooting radically changed the NBA.
I don't think anyone denies this. Spacing was pretty shitty around that time, even when the Lakers won back to back titles with Kobe-Gasol, they didn't really have 3 point shooters. It was the Miami LeBron teams that started to play a bit more modern, once the Warriors arrived they took it to another level and the league followed.

One of the reasons why Phil Jackson failed in New York as a GM is because he was still stuck in his old ways while the rest of the league finally realized you need more shooting.

[Xiao Yao You]

:facepalm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9axxv6FqFo

a post up is an iso now?

[1987_Lakers]

a post up is an iso now?

Yes, it's a one on one play. :facepalm

[dankok8]

I don't think anyone denies this. Spacing was pretty shitty around that time, even when the Lakers won back to back titles with Kobe-Gasol, they didn't really have 3 point shooters. It was the Miami LeBron teams that started to play a bit more modern, once the Warriors arrived they took it to another level and the league followed.

One of the reasons why Phil Jackson failed in New York as a GM is because he was still stuck in his old ways while the rest of the league finally realized you need more shooting.

Right.

But in 2012, the NBA had Lebron, Durant, CP3, Westbrook, Curry etc. all in their primes or seriously coming up. All of those players adapted and thrived in the modern 3pt shooting NBA so why wouldn't the 90's stars?

[1987_Lakers]

Right.

But in 2012, the NBA had Lebron, Durant, CP3, Westbrook, Curry etc. all in their primes or seriously coming up. All of those players adapted and thrived in the modern 3pt shooting NBA so why wouldn't the 90's stars?

I don't think the current discussion is about if they would thrive, of course they would thrive today, but when you have people saying MJ would average 40 and another poster saying he would easily average a triple double, that is when shit gets cringe.

The 40 ppg part I can kinda see even if I don't believe it, but the triple double part? This is why people laugh at old heads.

[90sgoat]

Diversity in playstyle? 90's was full of ISO ball, mainly because of the "illegal defense" rule. Go watch those Bulls-Jazz Finals. It was basically MJ ISO with everybody else on the other side of the court and vice versa for Malone, very little creativity.

MJ rarely iso'ed in the 90s, maybe you confuse posting up in the triangle offense with isoing.

Bulls in the 90s were an motion offense, everybody touching the ball.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYe7ce4hFlI

Motion offense.

Then you have a team like Indiana with Reggie Miller running off screens, Rik Smits spacing the floor. Nobody on that team can iso.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI5Efv4qQ4w

Hakeem playing a modern game of 4 guys out who can hit the 3 pointer. Stockton and Malone with the pick and roll. Supersonics with the absolutely insane defense and the fastbreaks. Trailblazers with Sabonis looking like Jokic, lots of high post passing.

Much more variety.

I really can't remember a true 90s team that played iso heavy, the most likely culprit probably Grant Hill in Detroit or maybe Penny at times with Shaq.

It was only when they changed the rules in the early 00s that McGrady, Iverson, Arenas, Francis, Davis etc began pounding the ball. McGrady was the first of the pound the ball guards.

[1987_Lakers]

MJ rarely iso'ed in the 90s,

https://media.tenor.com/rmtvkkGm7xYAAAAM/laugh-cant-hold-it-in.gif

[dankok8]

I don't think the current discussion is about if they would thrive, of course they would thrive today, but when you have people saying MJ would average 40 and another poster saying he would easily average a triple double, that is when shit gets cringe.

The 40 ppg part I can kinda see even if I don't believe it, but the triple double part? This is why people laugh at old heads.

I also think MJ could average 40 today. It's just too easy to get to and score at the rim. All great scorers like prime Lebron/Kobe/KD could do 35 easily...

Triple double for MJ seems unlikely because of rebounds in particular but double digit assists are very doable if he has a bunch of shooters on his team. A lot of players COULD average a triple double but MJ likely wouldn't chase the rebounds. Westbrook averaged a triple double for four seasons. Luka is very close to a 35-point triple double now. And we all know Lebron could have easily averaged a triple double if he wanted to.

[SATAN]

If players today are better, why are they losing all the time to Australia and Europe?



Because players today are better? In general the floor has raised. The lower tier guys are more skilled. The best guys from Australia and Europe and playing against Austin Reaves ffs.

[warriorfan]

It’s pretty interesting that the anti 90’s guys weren’t even alive during the era they are supposedly experts on. :oldlol:

[Micku]

I also think MJ could average 40 today. It's just too easy to get to and score at the rim. All great scorers like prime Lebron/Kobe/KD could do 35 easily...

Triple double for MJ seems unlikely because of rebounds in particular but double digit assists are very doable if he has a bunch of shooters on his team. A lot of players COULD average a triple double but MJ likely wouldn't chase the rebounds. Westbrook averaged a triple double for four seasons. Luka is very close to a 35-point triple double now. And we all know Lebron could have easily averaged a triple double if he wanted to.

I don't know about easy, but I think if MJ wanted to go for the triple double, it could get close. Especially under the right system. James Harden averaged 29/8/11 in 17. I would imagine MJ could do something similar to that but with more ppg. He would have to change his playstyle to be more ball dominant to do that. I don't think it's far fetched for MJ to reach close to a triple double in this era. It's doable, but doubt it would be organic and good enough to win games at a championship contender lvl team.

[Phoenix]

I think MJ averages a triple double pretty easily.

He was a very good rebounder for his size, remember he already averaged 32-8-8 in the late 80s and got 6 rebounds at age 39 in 2002.

He definitely would average 10+ rebounds today and like you say 8-10 assists pr. game should be rather easy.

I could see him averaging a trip dup for his career if he came into the league now.

Averaging a triple dub for a career is a bridge too far. I could see a handful of seasons and probably some 32-9-8 type shit most years. But that's less that what Luka does now, you say(34-10-9) off the top of my head. I would assume MJ is going to put some degree of effort into defense unlike Luka. It's also strategic for Luka to board at the level he does because he initiates the break as the main ballhandler. Same thing for Westbrook years ago, there's no reason he should have averaged more boards than like Steven Adams for example, but because of his athleticism/motor the bigs often got out of his way so that he could grab the rebound and then he's going downhill 100 miles an hour on the break.

There are also different versions of MJ that are of course capable of different things. He had a great motor but the 93 version didn't have 89s motor, but the 93 version was also a better shooter. Of course the 89 version is going to be impossible to keep from the rim. Soooooo.... there's needs to be some give and take. 90/91 MJ is probably the one where you say he had the motor, 98% of his 80's athleticism, better jumper, better game IQ and run wild with what that version does. What I suspect is an annual duplication of his 89 stat line give or take, and he'll have a couple of triple double years and a few 35-37ppg seasons. Of course, the offense and team personnel plays a role. We have no idea who's on his team in 2024. MJ was a more skilled scorer in 92 averaging 30 than he was in 87 averaging 37. The difference was his teammates in the 90s were better and he was in a system intended to take the ball out of his hands and finish plays, acting moreso like an insurance policy for the offense. You go back and watch some of those championship seasons, he barely did anything in the first quarter alot of games because the key for keeping the engine well-greased was making sure the rest of the team was engaged. Scottie is facilitating the triangle and he'll get a few shots off. Give Cartwright/Longley a few touches in the post. Get Horace a few garbage baskets off penetration dump-offs, get him open for a 15 footer. Get Paxson or BJ a few catch and shoots. MJ could always go get his when push came to shove.

Sorry, bit of a morning ramble. Still on my first coffee lol..

[Spurs m8]

It’s pretty interesting that the anti 90’s guys weren’t even alive during the era they are supposedly experts on. :oldlol:

Yep.


They're also weak little manlets, like 1987, who can't appreciate a league with defense....terrified of REAL sport.

Today is a weak attempt at entertainment, produced by skinny pencil necked losers such as Adam Silver...who is also bald and has an inverted c0ck.

Weak

[Phoenix]

What I really find weird about NBA discourse, is the disrespect amongst players for other generations. The trendsetters allowing guys to earn now $50m per annum get shit on for primitive skillsets, and the older heads shit on the new generation for being soft and coddled and 'we would have averaged 40 and 20 if I were playing today' with the rules being what they are. Really weird culture....

[Kblaze8855]

It’s pretty interesting that the anti 90’s guys weren’t even alive during the era they are supposedly experts on. :oldlol:

there are so many people on the Internet who are incredibly uninformed, but have really really tightly held opinions. For the most part, I just have to ignore it. Several people in this topic are that type. Like this:




Diversity in playstyle?




The only way to argue against the idea the 80s and 90s offenses were more diverse is to just…not know what you’re talking about. That or lie.

They just were. Several teams played entirely different. The most different teams you can imagine today are still fundamentally looking for the same shots.

You had teams back then with 4 post players at a time playing teams with all jump shooters and a 3 playing the 5. Pick and roll based offenses. Princeton. Full triangle. Paul Westhead basically being a maniac in college with His system he brought to the Nuggets who scored 120 points while giving up 130 without threes(relative to today). You had guys like Pitino come in deciding to play full court press. Vastly different defensive systems between like…the Jazz and Sonics. Both offense and defense had a lot more variety. Even if you were of the opinionated that everyone simply got smarter and realized the right shots to take, and how to get them, the fact remains it’s all much more streamlined in approach.

But people can’t grant even that because of a straight up lack of knowledge. There comes a point you can’t even talk to people about these things. You’re just telling them the truth, and they take their beliefs and decide that you who are factually more informed than they are is just nostalgic, so why bother?

90% of the conversations on here about the 90s is somebody who doesn’t have any ****ing idea what they’re talking about telling me something is true when I know it isn’t. I don’t tell people who watched the 60s how basketball was played in the 60s because I watch highlights and a couple games. But people have no issue doing that talking about the 80s and 90s.

The whole process is just so dishonest. People will actually tell you they aren’t cherry picking bad plays then show a couple consecutive ugly plays in a game that had 240 points scored they don’t show a single made basket from.

I was watching one about the Celtics being slow and terrible that had a couple bird turnovers and an ugly missed shot but bird had like 30/10 that game and they won a blowout. I know some of the people know it’s just trolling, but there’s a curious number of people actually stupid enough to believe it all.

You can’t talk them out of it. So it’s best to ignore it. Just laugh when it’s funny.

[1987_Lakers]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/16Cw_FbWxCo/maxresdefault.jpg
https://cdn2.sbnation.com/assets/4183421/Screen_Shot_2014-03-24_at_9.38.27_PM.png

Stupid illegal defense rules which basically outlawed help defense.

:oldlol:

And Perimeter defenders sagging on offensive players like...

https://thefunambulist.net/app/uploads/fly-images/1022152/Funambulist-Darnell-Pritchard-1-668x668.jpg

:oldlol:

WE DONE WITH THE 90s!

[dankok8]

I don't know about easy, but I think if MJ wanted to go for the triple double, it could get close. Especially under the right system. James Harden averaged 29/8/11 in 17. I would imagine MJ could do something similar to that but with more ppg. He would have to change his playstyle to be more ball dominant to do that. I don't think it's far fetched for MJ to reach close to a triple double in this era. It's doable, but doubt it would be organic and good enough to win games at a championship contender lvl team.

I agree.

If MJ was averaging a triple double and getting 10+ rebounds in particular, that team wouldn't be very successful.

[dankok8]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/16Cw_FbWxCo/maxresdefault.jpg
https://cdn2.sbnation.com/assets/4183421/Screen_Shot_2014-03-24_at_9.38.27_PM.png

Stupid illegal defense rules which basically outlawed help defense.

:oldlol:

And Perimeter defenders sagging on offensive players like...

https://thefunambulist.net/app/uploads/fly-images/1022152/Funambulist-Darnell-Pritchard-1-668x668.jpg

:oldlol:

WE DONE WITH THE 90s!

Actually... 90's teams played plenty of zone. The Bad Boy Pistons did it, the Bulls did it, Riley's Knicks did it. Sometimes the refs will make an illegal defense call and very rarely they'd call it a second time where the other team gets a technical free throw. Refs didn't want to call it consistently because the game would be full of technical free throws.

Watch some games and you'll see there was plenty of zone. For instance this random video (technically 1989).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79AEcctiOzU

Both Pistons and Bulls have players roaming who are neither double-teaming nor defending man to man on almost every possession.

[tpols]

This one pretty funny roasting mo cheeks for smoking crack. :lol


https://youtu.be/n55J-Y-RVjQ?si=OsKiXHR-W9_MWy2f

It is well known though that a lot of 80s and 90s players from the NBA and NFL used to do a lot of cocaine and crack. Michael Irvin used to throw big crack and hooker yacht parties with the team and some top NBA prospects even died from it. Players today don't do hard drugs.

Players back then did seem to lack muscle tone to a degree. The average non center today looks more muscular.

[1987_Lakers]

“If teams were able to play zone defenses, I never would've had the career I had." - MJ

[tpols]

Like watching 80s Lakers vs Celtics... did these guys never lift? There's not a single dude with any muscular definition on either team. Even Larry look doughy and thin and he was supposedly the strongest one. That's big trash!

[1987_Lakers]

Like watching 80s Lakers vs Celtics... did these guys never lift? There's not a single dude with any muscular definition on either team. Even Larry look doughy and thin and he was supposedly the strongest one. That's big trash!

Michael Cooper sure didn't.

[Phoenix]

I can't wait for the dialogue on this two in 20 years based on appearance:

https://basketnews.com/image-402454-any818x650.jpg

[tpols]

I just looked it up the highest weight on the Lakers was Kareem @ 225 and on the Celtics Parish @ 230. Bird and Magic only weighed 220 at 6'9 a piece. That's weak weight.

Meanwhile Luka is like 240 and Jokic is like 300 lbs. These 80s dudes would get bodied. How you gonna be 7'2 and weigh only 225 lbs? :facepalm Grandpa Kareem.

[90sgoat]

Averaging a triple dub for a career is a bridge too far. I could see a handful of seasons and probably some 32-9-8 type shit most years. But that's less that what Luka does now, you say(34-10-9) off the top of my head. I would assume MJ is going to put some degree of effort into defense unlike Luka. It's also strategic for Luka to board at the level he does because he initiates the break as the main ballhandler. Same thing for Westbrook years ago, there's no reason he should have averaged more boards than like Steven Adams for example, but because of his athleticism/motor the bigs often got out of his way so that he could grab the rebound and then he's going downhill 100 miles an hour on the break.

Yeah I was thinking about Westbrook, because young MJ up until around 1989 would definitely be very much like Westbrook in terms of grabbing the board and racing down the court.

MJ was so quick down the court back then. Remember that iconic dunk on Laimbeer in the open court basically from almost free throw line? That would happen a lot.

[Phoenix]

The thing is ultimately, I 'think' the highest season PPG on a team that won the chip is MJ's 32.6 in 93. For all of Wilts crazy ass numbers he averaged 24 in 67 when he won his first title, not 50 or 37 or 35. Lebron and Kobe's chips were all won with them averaging under 30 for the year. Kareem averaged 32 on the 71 Bucks. History shows us there's no real advantage to a guy consuming 35-40 points of the offense. Yes, obviously MJ has lots of 35-40ppg playoff series but those are limited samples. I'm saying over the course of a year, you're not gonna build the chemistry needed for a champion with one guy going batshit insane on offense just to hit a certain scoring number. MJ's 37 got him bounced in the first round. Same for Kobe's 35. Hardens 36 in 2019 got him to the 2nd round. It's just...not the way its done. Which is why I say if Luka ever wins its not gonna be off what he's averaging now in the season.

[Kblaze8855]

I just looked it up the highest weight on the Lakers was Kareem @ 225 and on the Celtics Parish @ 230. Bird and Magic only weighed 220 at 6'9 a piece. That's weak weight.

Meanwhile Luka is like 240 and Jokic is like 300 lbs. These 80s dudes would get bodied. How you gonna be 7'2 and weigh only 225 lbs? :facepalm Grandpa Kareem.


I realize you’re leaning into the thing, but Kareem got around 270 in the mid 80s. He was around 250 before that. Historical players are always listed by rookie weight, which is what the NBA kept track of for years. There were no updates like they do now. Shaq was 289 coming out of LSU and 303 the day of the combine. If you listed that his entire career, it would obviously be dozens of pounds off at any time.

[Im Still Ballin]

Kareem had some pretty strong and muscular thighs. I think it was after 1985 or 1986 that he started lifting weights to supplement his Bikram yoga.

[90sgoat]

Kareem is definitely not 220 lbs lol, he'd look like Porzingis if he did.

Probably closer to 300 lbs at his late career. Very tall people don't get huge unless they use roids.

[warriorfan]

there are so many people on the Internet who are incredibly uninformed, but have really really tightly held opinions. For the most part, I just have to ignore it. Several people in this topic are that type. Like this:





The only way to argue against the idea the 80s and 90s offenses were more diverse is to just…not know what you’re talking about. That or lie.

They just were. Several teams played entirely different. The most different teams you can imagine today are still fundamentally looking for the same shots.

You had teams back then with 4 post players at a time playing teams with all jump shooters and a 3 playing the 5. Pick and roll based offenses. Princeton. Full triangle. Paul Westhead basically being a maniac in college with His system he brought to the Nuggets who scored 120 points while giving up 130 without threes(relative to today). You had guys like Pitino come in deciding to play full court press. Vastly different defensive systems between like…the Jazz and Sonics. Both offense and defense had a lot more variety. Even if you were of the opinionated that everyone simply got smarter and realized the right shots to take, and how to get them, the fact remains it’s all much more streamlined in approach.

But people can’t grant even that because of a straight up lack of knowledge. There comes a point you can’t even talk to people about these things. You’re just telling them the truth, and they take their beliefs and decide that you who are factually more informed than they are is just nostalgic, so why bother?

90% of the conversations on here about the 90s is somebody who doesn’t have any ****ing idea what they’re talking about telling me something is true when I know it isn’t. I don’t tell people who watched the 60s how basketball was played in the 60s because I watch highlights and a couple games. But people have no issue doing that talking about the 80s and 90s.

The whole process is just so dishonest. People will actually tell you they aren’t cherry picking bad plays then show a couple consecutive ugly plays in a game that had 240 points scored they don’t show a single made basket from.

I was watching one about the Celtics being slow and terrible that had a couple bird turnovers and an ugly missed shot but bird had like 30/10 that game and they won a blowout. I know some of the people know it’s just trolling, but there’s a curious number of people actually stupid enough to believe it all.

You can’t talk them out of it. So it’s best to ignore it. Just laugh when it’s funny.

I agree. If you are speaking on an era you didn’t watch at all, you better have done your research in a major way and know a lot about the game. Even then you will be missing part of the picture.

It’s pretty obvious from listening to these guys try to articulate themselves in this thread…they are snitching on themselves about they don’t really know what they are talking about.

They haven’t done much research or know much about the game in general. Any research they have done has been heavily biased. You will look for what you are finding when you come into a topic with a strong bias. Something tells me these guys aren’t watching full games and making objective observations on it. Seems like they are curating highlights from curated highlights (by highlights I mean low lights, blooper plays, shaqtin a cool, etc etc.

We all know how you can take a bad game from someone and create a good highlight film for it.

You can do the opposite with the shaqtin the fool type reels. As KBlaze said players having legendary games will have a few mistakes.

Reeling together tons of mistakes and representing them as normal every possession play is as dishonest as it gets. It’s pretty transparent too.

What’s funny is the whole “we done with the 90’s” guy knows he’s being an absurd troll, he knows he isn’t being serious

But we have some posters here who are hopping onto this bandwagon not realizing the guy is being ironic.

All you gotta do at this point is sit back and let these guys keep talking. The more they do the more they bury themselves by displaying their blatant lack of knowledge.

[tpols]

Kareem is definitely not 220 lbs lol, he'd look like Porzingis if he did.

Probably closer to 300 lbs at his late career. Very tall people don't get huge unless they use roids.

This is 300?

https://www.si.com/.image/t_share/MTY4MTI1ODk0NTgyNjA5Mjgw/1985-kareem-abdul-jabbar-magic-johnson-05772101jpg.jpg

No way. Not even close. Dude was a stick figure. With hips wider than his shoulders.

Guys in the 80s were skinny as hell. The 90s guys looked like they bulked up. 80s physiques were garbage. Big trash. :lol:facepalm

[Phoenix]

I agree. If you are speaking on an era you didn’t watch at all, you better have done your research in a major way and know a lot about the game. Even then you will be missing part of the picture.

It’s pretty obvious from listening to these guys try to articulate themselves in this thread…they are snitching on themselves about they don’t really know what they are talking about.

They haven’t done much research or know much about the game in general. Any research they have done has been heavily biased. You will look for what you are finding when you come into a topic with a strong bias. Something tells me these guys aren’t watching full games and making objective observations on it. Seems like they are curating highlights from curated highlights (by highlights I mean low lights, blooper plays, shaqtin a cool, etc etc.

We all know how you can take a bad game from someone and create a good highlight film for it.

You can do the opposite with the shaqtin the fool type reels. As KBlaze said players having legendary games will have a few mistakes.

Reeling together tons of mistakes and representing them as normal every possession play is as dishonest as it gets. It’s pretty transparent too.

What’s funny is the whole “we done with the 90’s” guy knows he’s being an absurd troll, he knows he isn’t being serious

But we have some posters here who are hopping onto this bandwagon not realizing the guy is being ironic.

All you gotta do at this point is sit back and let these guys keep talking. The more they do the more they bury themselves by displaying their blatant lack of knowledge.

Generally it's why I don't opinionate on anything before the Magic/Bird era. There was a poster on here that very obviously grew up on Wilt( Jabbar?). I wouldn't even begin to argue with him about the 60s and 70s because I only would have the context of youtube highlight vids and stat websites. I don't consider that enough to be informed on the topic to the degree of debating those who watched it night in, night out. Like I can clearly analyze a full 70s game off youtube around what I'm seeing, but I still consider myself largely ill-informed. But we have a generation of people who've grown up on the internet who thinks having access to shit in retrospect via clips and verbal/written testimony is all that's needed. It's like someone born in 1970 trying to debate what WW2 was like with someone who was going through the shit in real-time.

[90sgoat]

This is 300?

https://www.si.com/.image/t_share/MTY4MTI1ODk0NTgyNjA5Mjgw/1985-kareem-abdul-jabbar-magic-johnson-05772101jpg.jpg

No way. Not even close. Dude was a stick figure. With hips wider than his shoulders.

Guys in the 80s were skinny as hell. The 90s guys looked like they bulked up. 80s physiques were garbage. Big trash. :lol:facepalm

First of all, Kareem was 7'2'' he's an absolute giant and that's why those bones will weigh a lot, particularly the legs and Kareem was long legged and had strong legs. He absolutely wasn't a twig like Porzingis.

Porzingis is the same height and he is currently listed at 240 lbs and Kareem is significantly more muscular and robust than Porzingis:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b7/dd/ef/b7ddef7cca2d8d962c4e6132f4a61cae.jpg

[Kblaze8855]

This is 300?

https://www.si.com/.image/t_share/MTY4MTI1ODk0NTgyNjA5Mjgw/1985-kareem-abdul-jabbar-magic-johnson-05772101jpg.jpg

No way. Not even close. Dude was a stick figure. With hips wider than his shoulders.

Guys in the 80s were skinny as hell. The 90s guys looked like they bulked up. 80s physiques were garbage. Big trash. :lol:facepalm

Goggles balding Kareem was about 270. There’s an la times article on him raising his playing weight one off season when he needed to be stronger to offset slowing down. He had of all things…a female bodybuilding friend who helped him put on weight.

[tpols]

First of all, Kareem was 7'2'' he's an absolute giant and that's why those bones will weigh a lot, particularly the legs and Kareem was long legged and had strong legs. He absolutely wasn't a twig like Porzingis.

Porzingis is the same height and he is currently listed at 240 lbs and Kareem is significantly more muscular and robust than Porzingis:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b7/dd/ef/b7ddef7cca2d8d962c4e6132f4a61cae.jpg

Bucks Kareem looked bigger for sure. But we talking about the 80s here when he was bald, wearing goggles like he was about to go swimming, and super skinny slenderman looking dude. And he was the heaviest guy on the 80s Laker dynasty.

For reference to today, Rudy gobert looks like a body builder compared to 80s Kareem.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pw_Yo8OiqA4/maxresdefault.jpg

[Carbine]

Tpols is such a troll.

We are months off him calling Kareem "thick ree trunk legs" and now's he's a skinny bitch.

Come on now.

[tpols]

Tpols is such a troll.

We are months off him calling Kareem "thick ree trunk legs" and now's he's a skinny bitch.

Come on now.

It's not hard to see that Bucks Kareem had way bigger deltoid and trap muscles. In the 80s with the goggles and bald spot he was bird chested and upper body like a twig. I mean I just showed a picture showing it clear as day.

But Gilbert Arenas made an interesting point on a podcast that I mentioned a page or two ago. When people talk about the 80s they only talk about the same top 6 superstars. They don't talk about the other 200 guys in the league who were coked out and mediocre or trash.


https://youtu.be/LNtGK0trDoE?si=UNM7Cxshlrapbyiv

And if you watch the old clips it's so evident how bad most of the league was outside its main superstars.

[Kblaze8855]

It's not hard to see that Bucks Kareem had way bigger deltoid and trap muscles. In the 80s with the goggles and bald spot he was bird chested and upper body like a twig. I mean I just showed a picture showing it clear as day.

But Gilbert Arenas made an interesting point on a podcast that I mentioned a page or two ago. When people talk about the 80s they only talk about the same top 6 superstars. They don't talk about the other 200 guys in the league who were coked out and mediocre or trash.


https://youtu.be/LNtGK0trDoE?si=UNM7Cxshlrapbyiv

And if you watch the old clips it's so evident how bad most of the league was outside its main superstars.


Troll all you like he factually peaked in weight in the mid 80s. 1986 to be exact




Working out with a female body-builder friend this summer, Abdul-Jabbar gained 13 pounds while dropping 5% of his body fat. Abdul-Jabbar, who played in the 240- to 250-pound range for most of his career, now tips the scales at close to 270.
Now, don’t come to the Forum expecting to see Arnold Schwarzenegger.

“My physique is so long and narrow that it looks the same to everybody,” Abdul-Jabbar said. “But the people who know me real well can tell a difference.”
So can the Laker coaches.
“It’s obvious,” Laker assistant Bill Bertka said. “He’s positioning himself around the defensive and offensive boards with much more force and stability than he has in the past.”
Abdul-Jabbar has followed a variety of conditioning programs in the past: swimming, biking and, in the last couple of years, yoga. This, however, was the first time he ever used free weights.

“My game has always been agility and speed and quickness,” he said. “Now that I’m a lot heavier, getting up and down the court requires more effort. But holding my position under the basket takes less effort. It’s a trade-off.”




He didn’t lift till then. Feel free to pivot to him not lifting being embarrassing instead.

[tpols]

I dont need to pivot when we have photo proof. His legs look thicker in the 80s. His upper body sure as hell looks skinnier. Legs weigh a lot more than arms so that may be the reason for the weight difference but you guys acting like 80s Kareem was strong looking is wild. Look at the picture posted man. Do you think that was photo shopped?

Players nowadays to be make the NBA been lifting since they were in middle or high school. Not waiting til they had a bald spot and looked like a grandpa.

[Xiao Yao You]

It's not hard to see that Bucks Kareem had way bigger deltoid and trap muscles. In the 80s with the goggles and bald spot he was bird chested and upper body like a twig. I mean I just showed a picture showing it clear as day.

But Gilbert Arenas made an interesting point on a podcast that I mentioned a page or two ago. When people talk about the 80s they only talk about the same top 6 superstars. They don't talk about the other 200 guys in the league who were coked out and mediocre or trash.


https://youtu.be/LNtGK0trDoE?si=UNM7Cxshlrapbyiv

And if you watch the old clips it's so evident how bad most of the league was outside its main superstars.

I talk about them but what's the point if ya'll think they were plumbers or average unskilled 4's :facepalm

[tpols]

I talk about them but what's the point if ya'll think they were plumbers or average unskilled 4's :facepalm

Did the 80s NBA not have a crack cocaine problem?

[Nowoco]

Absolutely no chance was Kareem ever 300lbs.

[Xiao Yao You]

Did the 80s NBA not have a crack cocaine problem?

they had a cocaine problem. Don't remember them saying it was crack so much other than when Len Bias died. We had The Drug Slinger get banned here. He could definitely fill it up though!

https://sportsecyclopedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/DrewUt.jpg

[90sgoat]

Players nowadays to be make the NBA been lifting since they were in middle or high school. Not waiting til they had a bald spot and looked like a grandpa.

Lol.

Bol Bol and Zingis are doing quite well for themselves as is Derrick Lively.

[tpols]

Zingis is one of the most toothpick players in the league and he STILL look bigger than 80s Kareem tbh.

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/By_6NWrPccUcpc1lX-QlFUgJeog=/0x0:3300x2515/1200x800/filters:focal(1646x162:2174x690)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/72797567/1757110124.0.jpg

His legs are skinnier but his shoulder breadth is wider and arms bigger.

Then again you're the dude telling us old Kareem was 300 lbs. That kind of invalidates your perception on other people's weight and size.

[SATAN]

Yeah I was thinking about Westbrook, because young MJ up until around 1989 would definitely be very much like Westbrook in terms of grabbing the board and racing down the court.

MJ was so quick down the court back then. Remember that iconic dunk on Laimbeer in the open court basically from almost free throw line? That would happen a lot.


"Thirty years ago, that's me," he said of Westbrook. "The attitude, trying to prove myself, showing so much passion for the game of basketball. You see it in his play. You can tell he loves the game, he plays with energy and flair."

This certainly wasn't the first time Westbrook had been compared to a young Jordan.

Jordan doesn't say that kind of thing lightly. Yes, Westbrook is a Jordan Brand athlete, but Jordan is not a man who doles out empty praise. A couple of years ago, he told ESPN's Wright Thompson that only four modern players -- LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan and Dirk Nowitzki -- could be nearly as successful in his era.


:coleman:

[SATAN]

tpols...hilarious, man. Keep up the good work. :oldlol: :applause:

[Kblaze8855]

I dont need to pivot when we have photo proof. His legs look thicker in the 80s. His upper body sure as hell looks skinnier. Legs weigh a lot more than arms so that may be the reason for the weight difference but you guys acting like 80s Kareem was strong looking is wild. Look at the picture posted man. Do you think that was photo shopped?

Players nowadays to be make the NBA been lifting since they were in middle or high school. Not waiting til they had a bald spot and looked like a grandpa.



What you think anyone looks like is irrelevant. He was a lot larger than the weight you listed. Riley was and still is a maniac about fitness and he tracked such things. Kareem was bigger in the mid 80s than he was before that and you feeling otherwise based on a picture doesn’t matter. You not realizing how often rookie weights get listed for life is just another example of you being absolutely sure about things you just dont keep up with.

[Wardell Curry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsoWfuruHmo

:roll:

[Wardell Curry]

I dont need to pivot when we have photo proof. His legs look thicker in the 80s. His upper body sure as hell looks skinnier. Legs weigh a lot more than arms so that may be the reason for the weight difference but you guys acting like 80s Kareem was strong looking is wild. Look at the picture posted man. Do you think that was photo shopped?

Players nowadays to be make the NBA been lifting since they were in middle or high school. Not waiting til they had a bald spot and looked like a grandpa.

Today's players are all on PEDs and it mainly started in the 90s.

[90sgoat]

Today's players are all on PEDs and it mainly started in the 90s.

Today's players are on peds, but it doesn't seem to be the good juice look big back in the 90s, more EPO less steroids.

Players in the 90s were way more explosive, stronger, better dunkers. Players today are mostly good for running.

Physique wise there's also a big different. Players today are more of the lanky long legged types, typical in long distance running. In the 90s, there were more stockily and explosive built players. Makes sense in the way the game changed. Back then it was half court, need to explode or be strong. Today it's running, running, running. It's more of an endurance sport.

[tpols]

What you think anyone looks like is irrelevant. He was a lot larger than the weight you listed. Riley was and still is a maniac about fitness and he tracked such things. Kareem was bigger in the mid 80s than he was before that and you feeling otherwise based on a picture doesn’t matter. You not realizing how often rookie weights get listed for life is just another example of you being absolutely sure about things you just dont keep up with.

Man you bragging about 80s Kareem being swole is a BIG lie. On some we don't believe you you need more people shit. These guys were straight up bone skinny...

And I used to get made fun of for being too thin in my youth I was 6'4 160 lbs in college and used to GET BEAT UP. By bigger dudes. Know what I did? I didn't make no excuses. I started eating more food and drinking beer like your boy Rick Mahorn and now I'm a solid 215.

I dont know exactly where im going with this but the only thing I can tell you is your toothpick era was GARBAGE!

[HoopsNY]

Man you bragging about 80s Kareem being swole is a BIG lie. On some we don't believe you you need more people shit. These guys were straight up bone skinny...

And I used to get made fun of for being too thin in my youth I was 6'4 160 lbs in college and used to GET BEAT UP. By bigger dudes. Know what I did? I didn't make no excuses. I started eating more food and drinking beer like your boy Rick Mahorn and now I'm a solid 215.

I dont know exactly where im going with this but the only thing I can tell you is your toothpick era was GARBAGE!

270 lbs seems unlikely, even though it was reported back then. But even if it's wrong, Kareem wasn't 220 lbs for his career.

[HoopsNY]

I don't think the current discussion is about if they would thrive, of course they would thrive today, but when you have people saying MJ would average 40 and another poster saying he would easily average a triple double, that is when shit gets cringe.

The 40 ppg part I can kinda see even if I don't believe it, but the triple double part? This is why people laugh at old heads.

Mj averaging 40 is unlikely, though possible. All of the factors would have to fall into place for that to happen. For one, he'd have to be a complete ball hog to do it. It wouldn't be a winning formula.

Given that he did average 37 without shooting threes, I suppose it is possible he could probably replicate that with shooting threes, even minimally at 4-5 per game.

I also think he would shoot the ball at a higher clip than he did in '87. He shot 48% then. I think he shoots closer to 50% now, threes included.

As for triple doubles, then that's probably more likely than the 40 PPG, but he would have to want to do that like he did during the 25 game stretch in '89. But him doing say, 33/9/8 is certainly not just possible, but likely. At that point, it's splitting hairs. Luka is doing slightly higher than that, minus the IQ and athleticism, so what's MJ doing?

[RRR3]

33/8/8 is reasonable, 40 PPG would only happen if 3ball was his coach (and the team would be abysmal)

[SATAN]

Mj averaging 40 is unlikely, though possible. All of the factors would have to fall into place for that to happen. For one, he'd have to be a complete ball hog to do it. It wouldn't be a winning formula.

Given that he did average 37 without shooting threes,

Who needs 3s when your being gifted 12 free throws per game? (More than when everyone complained about the Harden foul baiting btw.)

[SATAN]

MJ shot 18% from 3 that season. :biggums:

[warriorfan]

existence is pain

[HoopsNY]

33/8/8 is reasonable, 40 PPG would only happen if 3ball was his coach (and the team would be abysmal)

Yea, though I could see a mix of averages. If we're looking at a spread of say, 10 years, or even 5, then it's not outlandish to imagine one or two of those years looking like 35/9/9 or 34/10/7...something like that.

I think peak LeBron could score 40 in this era if he had wanted to as well. Actually, a lot of guys could.

[dankok8]

33/8/8 is reasonable, 40 PPG would only happen if 3ball was his coach (and the team would be abysmal)

Ok. Now you're shifting goal posts.

No one on in this thread insisted that MJ would average 40 ppg on a championship team.

[RRR3]

Yea, though I could see a mix of averages. If we're looking at a spread of say, 10 years, or even 5, then it's not outlandish to imagine one or two of those years looking like 35/9/9 or 34/10/7...something like that.

I think peak LeBron could score 40 in this era if he had wanted to as well. Actually, a lot of guys could.
Eh...No player in history could average 40 in today's era unless the coach specifically set out with that goal in mind. That would be a pretty bad coach.

[HoopsNY]

Eh...No player in history could average 40 in today's era unless the coach specifically set out with that goal in mind. That would be a pretty bad coach.

I guess that's the point. It's not a winning formula. It's not something that would stick. It's just not good basketball. However, guys are capable of it. If you let Harden do it in 2019, I think he would have.

[HoopsNY]

Just realized Luka is doing 34/9/10. Westbrook averaged a triple double for multiple seasons, four to be exact. LeBron had numerous years of 28/9/9. I don't see what the big deal here is? What's so crazy about MJ doing 34/9/9 or something like that? Triple double (like) numbers are literally being done all the time.

[Phoenix]

Just realized Luka is doing 34/9/10. Westbrook averaged a triple double for multiple seasons, four to be exact. LeBron had numerous years of 28/9/9. I don't see what the big deal here is? What's so crazy about MJ doing 34/9/9 or something like that? Triple double (like) numbers are literally being done all the time.

You and I fall on the same line of thinking here. Give a ten year period starting from like 2020 and drop 23 year old MJ there, he's gonna have some 35/9/8 years, maybe a 37/8/7, mostly 33-4/8/8 type stuff. When you look at it compared to like Luka and say well why can't MJ at minimum replicate that, Luka completely dominates the ball at a historic rate. MJ would likely replicate the stats of what you're seeing from Luka now, but without the excessively high usage and he'll have any entirely other dynamic to his game: defense. Or at least, defense as best as he could play it under modern rules.

Perhaps an even better proximity for MJ may be SGA. This year he's dropping 31/6/6. That's like....91 MJs statline. While shooting 3.5 threes at 38% and 9 free throws at 87%. MJ will probably be on the line 12 times in this era. His field goal percentage will easily be over 50%; SGA is at 54% this season. The more contentious argument on this site is how many 3s he takes and on what percentages, as it becomes speculation as to the degree he develops that shot and volume. But he very obviously drops 30+ without heavy reliance on it.