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[QUOTE=Borderlands]I definitely think that John Wall needs to be higher on everyone's lists. If you look at CP3's stats rookie year versus Wall's rookie year, they are pretty much similar. Wall is a mix of DRose and CP3 in a couple of years.
The top 4 point guards are:
Rose, CP3, DWill, and Wall[/QUOTE]
Wall is not that similar to CP3. He is crazy athletic but he does not play with the intelligence that Paul plays with . . .
Ast/Turnover I dont think Wall will ever be like Paul. Wall isnt the better three point shooter either. But I was saying that he is a mix of Rose (who is more TO prone)and Paul. Another category I think Wall will improve on is steals.
As to the winning percentage, Wall isnt going to improve his team as much as Paul. I think Wall doesnt run the pick and roll as effectively as Paul but then again the Wizards didnt have Tyson Chandler and David West (an allstar). I havent seen many Wizards games but getting 8-9 assists/game shows a lot of court vision especially as a rookie. I dont think any rookie point guard has averaged that recently except for Paul in '05 (if I remember correctly). Will Wall ever be dubbed "neither a shoot first nor pass first point guard" which Paul is so often called, not really. But surround him with the right players, like Rose in Chicago, and you have a team that is playoff bound.
1. Chris Paul-Hopefully he'll repeat his post-season play
2. Derrick Rose-Not a conventional PG but a great player none the less
3. Derrick Williams-Kind of sad about the trade, but he's a great player wherever he is.
4. Steve Nash-Doesn't show any signs of slowing down. Rooting for him to get a ring.
5. Rajon Rando-Engineers the Boston offense brilliantly.
6. Tony Parker- In my opinion MVP of the great Spurs team.
7. Ty Lawson- Ready to explode into his role as a star point guard.
8. John Wall- Looking to see improvement on an already incredible player.
9. Russel Westbrook- I know, this is very low but honestly I don't think he's much without Durant and his post season showed his bad side.
10. Jason Kidd- I think this'll be his last productive season, but he'll be good.
1. Steve Nash - GOAT shooter, Top passer, Keep his body in incredible health, amazing passion, great leader. Place him on a better team and he will win them a championship. Best PG in the league until he retires.
2. Chris Paul
3. Deron Williams
4. Derrick Rose
5. Stephen Curry
6. Tony Parker
7. Russell Westbrook
8. Rajon Rondo
9. Jrue Holiday
10. Andre Miller
[QUOTE=SunsCaptain]1. Steve Nash - GOAT shooter, Top passer, Keep his body in incredible health, amazing passion, great leader. Place him on a better team and he will win them a championship. Best PG in the league until he retires.
2. Chris Paul
3. Deron Williams
4. Derrick Rose
5. Stephen Curry
6. Tony Parker
7. Russell Westbrook
8. Rajon Rondo
9. Jrue Holiday
10. Andre Miller[/QUOTE]
Curry is up to high and miller shouldn't be on your list
[QUOTE=SunsCaptain]1. [B]Steve Nash[/B] - GOAT shooter, Top passer, Keep his body in incredible health, amazing passion, great leader. Place him on a better team and he will win them a championship. Best PG in the league until he retires.
2. Chris Paul
3. Deron Williams
4. Derrick Rose
5. [B]Stephen Curry [/B]
6. [B]Tony Parker[/B]
7. Russell Westbrook
8. Rajon Rondo
9. Jrue Holiday
10. Andre Miller[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
1. Andre Miller
2. Steve Nash
3. Deron Williams
4. Chris Paul
5. Stephen Curry
6. Russell Westbrick
7. Patty Mills
8. Rajon Rondo
9. Jrue Holiday
10. Steve Blake
1. Raymond Felton
2. Steve Nash
3. Andre Miller
4. Chris Paul
5. Nolan Smith
6. Russell Westbrick
7. Patty Mills
8. Deron Williams
9. Jrue Holiday
10. Armon Johnson
How in the world did I forget Raymond Felton? Silly me. Only a man with such great knowledge of the game can correct me. Thank you Mike.
[QUOTE=Mike Rice]How in the world did I forget Raymond Felton? Silly me. Only a man with such great knowledge of the game can correct me. Thank you Mike.[/QUOTE]
No problem Mike. You were fairly accurate with your list though. Great job partner.
[QUOTE=ballerz]Curry is up to high and miller shouldn't be on your list[/QUOTE]
Curry is not up to high. Its my list anyways.... :rolleyes:
CP3 is the best hands down
Paul is one of my favorite players but he shouldn't be #1 in anyone's list. I think he gets too much love for his playoff performance against the Lakers since pretty much everyone was missing the old CP3. He hasn't been playing like the old CP3 since he got injured which was 2 years ago. Yes, he played great against the Lakers but he was guarded by players like Fisher and Blake. Also, same Lakers team got swept in the next round. He might come back next season and keep playing like the way he did against the Lakers but it's not very realistic based on how he performed in the last 2 years. Don't get me wrong he's still one of the best but simply not #1.
I'm not gonna make a list but I think Derrick Rose is the best PG in the league. See why and tell me what you think about it.
1)Derrick Rose
Best scorer & most explosive PG in the league. Also the fastest, strongest, and most athletic PG. Best ball handler PG with Paul. His ability to drive in and finish at the rim is unmatched among the best PGs. He developed a good mid-range game. Demonstrates strong leadership skills. Not afraid to take big shots.
Things that he needs to improve :
1) Passing - Good but not elite
2) Court vision - Good but not elite
3) Shooting - Improved a little but still needs to work on it
4) Being smarter and not taking bad shots
Crazy thing is he's only 22. He has lot's of time to improve. That's why I think he is and will be the best PG in the league.
Edit: Again, if Paul comes back next season and plays like he did against the Lakers then I would put him at #1 in a heartbeat but let's wait and see if that happens.
1) Passing - Good but not elite
2) Court vision - Good but not elite
3) Shooting - Improved a little but still needs to work on it
4) Being smarter and not taking bad shots
and how is he then the best pg in the league?This 4 things are what I want from my PG
Nash-best passer in the NBA(2nd best ever-just not far behind Magic-IMHO he's beter than magic in half court passing-and yeah he led the NBA last year in APG with his 2nd best player in Gortat),best court vision,best shooter among PG's ever(top 5 all time shooter),highest basketball IQ in the league,50% fg shooter when healthy,he can finish with both hand equaly good at the rim,good ballhandler,clutch,one of the best leaders in the NBA
but yes he is 38,white,short,slow,can't jump and can't dunk -but he was like than when he was 31
[QUOTE=SteveNashMVPcro]1) Passing - Good but not elite
2) Court vision - Good but not elite
3) Shooting - Improved a little but still needs to work on it
4) Being smarter and not taking bad shots
and how is he then the best pg in the league?This 4 things are what I want from my PG
Nash-best passer in the NBA(2nd best ever-just not far behind Magic-IMHO he's beter than magic in half court passing-and yeah he led the NBA last year in APG with his 2nd best player in Gortat),best court vision,best shooter among PG's ever(top 5 all time shooter),highest basketball IQ in the league,50% fg shooter when healthy,he can finish with both hand equaly good at the rim,good ballhandler,clutch,one of the best leaders in the NBA
but yes he is 38,white,short,slow,can't jump and can't dunk -but he was like than when he was 31[/QUOTE]
Are those really the only things you want from your PG? I don't think so. Those might be what you would like from a pass-first PG but not from an all around PG.
1-2)Let's be real. His court vision and passing aren't as bad as some of you say. If Nash is 10/10 at those two things then Rose is 7/10 and he will get better. I'm not saying Rose will be as good as Nash at those two things when he improves but improvement is improvement.
3)His shooting is bad compared to Nash but it's good enough compared to other top PGs. Also, this is something he can improve by little and little each year. He sure got better at it each and every year since he came into the league.
4)Well most of his bad shots are due to not having another player who can create his own shot on the team. I think once the Bulls get a player who can create for himself and others this problem of taking bad shots will mostly be solved. He will take bad shots every now and then but pretty much every superstar does that.
Why is he the best PG in the league? Because he is the most dominant one. No other PG affects/changes the game like Rose does. Again, he has things that he needs to improve. If it was another superstar, then I would say ehh..he's not gonna get any better from here but since Rose is very humble and hardworking I'm expecting another jump from him.
On a side note that's what I keep hearing about Wall(being humble and hardworking) so I think he will be one of the best in the future too. It'll be really fun to watch these two guys.
I agree with you completely on the points you made about Nash. I would put him at #4 if I had to make a list right now. Would put at #2 if this list wasn't focused on the future.
[QUOTE=SteveNashMVPcro]1) Passing - Good but not elite
2) Court vision - Good but not elite
3) Shooting - Improved a little but still needs to work on it
4) Being smarter and not taking bad shots
and how is he then the best pg in the league?This 4 things are what I want from my PG
Nash-best passer in the NBA(2nd best ever-just not far behind Magic-IMHO he's beter than magic in half court passing-and yeah he led the NBA last year in APG with his 2nd best player in Gortat),best court vision,best shooter among PG's ever(top 5 all time shooter),highest basketball IQ in the league,50% fg shooter when healthy,he can finish with both hand equaly good at the rim,good ballhandler,clutch,one of the best leaders in the NBA
but yes he is 38,white,short,slow,can't jump and can't dunk -but he was like than when he was 31[/QUOTE]
Steve Nash isnt slow and he has hops and CAN dunk. But he stated he never would. It is utterly pointless to do for a PG especially one with Nash's scoring and passing ability. If you watch Steve Nash play he like to run base line and then maybe curl into the center of the key looking for passing options if none are available he will take a simple lay-up or short fadeaway. To dunk as a PG means you are thinking in your head the whole time "I am going to dunk it" You put your head down and crash to the rim and try to get the ball in the hoop for personal glory. Thats not how Nash plays. He doesnt care about looking good even if he has a wide open lane he wont dunk it. He just likes to be efficient. Remember leaving your feet is bad for passing...So Nash makes the defense looks stupid as he runs circles on them in the paint and has the option for a lay-up. Also Dunks are pointless for a PG because it is a risk for injury that is not needed. :banghead:
[QUOTE=Mike Barrett]1. Raymond Felton 2. Steve Nash 3. Andre Miller 4. Chris Paul 5. Nolan Smith 6. Russell Westbrick 7. Patty Mills 8. Deron Williams 9. Jrue Holiday 10. Armon Johnson[/QUOTE]
Actually don't have a problem with this list other then Russell Westbroke.
also feel that Mike Conley, Jr needs some consideration in these top 10 lists.
[QUOTE=Batz][B]1.[/B] Deron Williams - Definately the best all around point guard in the league. He can destroy defenses in so many ways and then hold his own on the other end. Definately for me the complete package as far as a franchise-run point guard.
[B]2.[/B] Chris Paul - Don't get me wrong, Paul here is one of my most favorite players, he's the complete package aswell, but with crappy bubble wrap. We saw how late in the Lakers series, he became almost completely ineffective when the LA took away the Hornet's PNR team. He faded and didn't even bother to adjust. A healthy Paul probably would've done better yes, but till I see otherwise, right now he's just not the best point guard in the NBA.
[B]3.[/B] Derrick Rose - I placed the MVP, and my top 3 favorite player at 3 simply because I don't believe he's a better point guard when comparing to Deron and Paul. Though I do think he is more dominant, however his defensive short comings, low efficiency, lack of a consistent shooting touch, aswell as an inferior passing skill set when comparing to the two guys above, are the reasons why I put Rose at 3rd place.
[B]4.[/B] Steve Nash - I hate putting this guy so low, but his defense is completely atrocious. And I'm Canadian, aswell as a huge Nash fan. An elite shooter, arguably the best, great passer with unique and out of this world court vision and the unmatched durability - puts the [I]old man[/I] at 4th place.
[B]5.[/B] Russel Westbrook - He definitely, definitely, the best all around player on the list given, definitely the best defender.. He can do just about everything, maybe except shooting threes, but there's also another flaw, his point guard skills. He can pass, but not that well. We saw him exposed in the playoffs continuously, whether it be screwing up the pass or play, or simply not passing/running the play at all. He tries to run the show too much, not that great of a shot selection, and his court vision is noticeably blurred. He's a point guard, but at random times, he's not.
[B]6.[/B] Rajan Rondo - Never liked the guy but he's good. Really good defender, unmatched hustle, and play making abilities to the likes of Steve Nash, and doesn't need an offensive system to flourish in, despite what some people try to negatively shove down your throat. Though he does not have a jump shot, nor does he have the free throw touch. Which is a must in a point guard, especially when a jump shot is what holding Rondo from being a poor mans Steve Nash to possibly the best and most unique guard in the league today.
[B]7.[/B] Tony Parker - A scoring point guard who still has the traditional point guard skill set in him. I always believed he could've been more than 20/7 type player, even before his 55 point eruption. I don't know why he didn't live up to such potential maybe a more consistent jumper? No one held him back, atleast that's what it seemed. Though a really talented scorer, especially in the paint, 7th place is fitting for a former finals MVP.
[B]
8.[/B] Jason Kidd - The old man is very underrated. As if he has camouflaged with the hardwood. Still is the same player, just at a much slower pace, minus the scoring - for the greater good. One thing that still stands out about him other than his elite passing ability and sudden shooting touch is his defense. It startles me when I don't see people pointing out that somehow this grandpa is holding his ground against players like Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade. Especially in Finals, I saw him on several possessions make Wade struggle. This guy is still a top 10 point guard for me. And should be for everyone.
[B]9.[/B] Chauncey Billups - A healthy Billups can turn a team around, we've all seen it happen, and I do believe it would be the same for knicks. If he didn't make a pullup transition three his #1 move in the arsenal, he could've been higher. But his defense, leadership and clutchness keeps him in my top
[B]10. [/B]John Wall - A bright, bright future. Honestly, the guy is experience and a jump shot away from being in the status of the likes of Rose. It's almost undeniable. Though I hate putting him here just out of potential, as you could've put someone like Curry here aswell. I just believe that Wall will infact have a better and more successful career.
[B][I]Dead Last. [/I][/B]Jose Calderon - Seriously sickens me how much this guy sucks.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGmOlANxMig[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Jn87CTrJUU&NR=1[/url]
How the f*ck does that happen? :facepalm[/QUOTE]
Excellent post!!!
My Top 6 matches yours. After that it's really a toss up for vets like Kidd, Parker, Wall and so forth.
Wall will be in the top 5 after next season
[QUOTE=SunsCaptain]Steve Nash isnt slow and he has hops and CAN dunk. But he stated he never would. It is utterly pointless to do for a PG especially one with Nash's scoring and passing ability. If you watch Steve Nash play he like to run base line and then maybe curl into the center of the key looking for passing options if none are available he will take a simple lay-up or short fadeaway. To dunk as a PG means you are thinking in your head the whole time "I am going to dunk it" You put your head down and crash to the rim and try to get the ball in the hoop for personal glory. Thats not how Nash plays. He doesnt care about looking good even if he has a wide open lane he wont dunk it. He just likes to be efficient. Remember leaving your feet is bad for passing...So Nash makes the defense looks stupid as he runs circles on them in the paint and has the option for a lay-up. Also Dunks are pointless for a PG because it is a risk for injury that is not needed. :banghead:[/QUOTE]
:roll:
Paul
Williams
Nash
Rose
Westbrook
[QUOTE=28renyoy]Paul
Williams
Nash
Rose
Westbrook[/QUOTE]
Rose>Nash