i hope this is a joke thread
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i hope this is a joke thread
[quote=Gifted Mind]Of course for many it could depend on if we are comparing their careers or their respective primes.[/quote]Either way, it isn't close.
maybe CAJ was more dominant but he couldn't do half of things Hakeem could.
with CAJ it was same boring s@%t all over again but i only watched him in late '80,maybe he could dribble or shoot from the range
[QUOTE=PHILA]Either way, it isn't close.[/QUOTE]
this. Kareem is so underrated on this board.
[QUOTE=Laimbeer_Rodman]maybe CAJ was more dominant but he couldn't do half of things Hakeem could.
with CAJ it was same boring s@%t all over again but i only watched him in late '80,maybe he could dribble or shoot from the range[/QUOTE]
this is a new one. Careem? Caream? Cream?
Further evidence that the ignorant always identify themselves with their inability to spell the names of the players they critique.
Prime KAJ was a 30 pt/14 reb/4 ast/4 blk/57% FG/60% TS player and upped that to like 33/15/4/57% in the playoffs. Hakeem isn't even close. Stop overrating him.
[QUOTE=G.O.A.T]this is a new one. Careem? Caream? Cream? Further evidence that the ignorant always identify themselves with their inability to spell the names of the players they critique.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps he heard the old joke too many times:
[I]Q: Why don't the Lakers have coffee anymore?
A: Cause Kareem left![/I]
:hammerhead:
[QUOTE=PHILA]Either way, it isn't close.[/QUOTE]
Peak to peak, '93-'95 Hakeem is there with anyone. Maybe not better but lol @ "it isn't close".
[QUOTE=Fatal9]Peak to peak, '93-'95 Hakeem is there with anyone. Maybe not better but lol @ "it isn't close".[/QUOTE]
he really isn't. And yes, it isn't close. It is a sizable difference, no cogent argument can be made for Hakeem.
[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]Prime KAJ was a 30 pt/14 reb/4 ast/4 blk/57% FG/60% TS player and upped that to like 33/15/4/57% in the playoffs. Hakeem isn't even close. Stop overrating him.[/QUOTE]
Hakeem isn't close?
It wasn't Hakeem's fault that it was Kareem and not him that first played with Oscar Robertson and Dandridge when he won his first chip, and then had the benifit to play with the best PG by all-time and the prime Worthy. It's not even funny how much better supporting cast Kareem had, he had 10 years playing beside the best point guard EVER!
Hakeem had his best years blown away while playing with scrubs and when he finally won he did it first with Kenny Smith, Otis Thorpe, Vernon Maxwell and Robert Horry and the year after he got a non-prime but still good Drexler with trading away Otis Thorpe.
Kareem won while with the Bucks playing with Dandridge and Robertson and then he didn't win smack for 9 years until Magic was drafted and before that he still had good players by his side like Wilkes, Dantley, Nixon, Goodrich, Allen etc..
When Kareem won with the Lakers he had prime Magic who is the best PG ever, Wilkes at the beginning of his stint with great scoring abilities, after 83 had on of the best SF's ever in Worthy by his side and with that he had great role players like Cooper and Scott by his side.
Kareem had so much better players by his side that it's not even funny, of course he won alot more than Hakeem, if not it would just be silly..
And talking about playoffs, Hakeem still had better playoff-stats. Hakeem averaged more points per game than any center ever (including Wilt, Shaq and Kareem) in the playoffs. His other stats are also superior to Kareem's in the playoffs.
Kareem averaged:
Points: 24.3/game
Rebounds: 10.5/game
Assists: 3.2/game
Hakeem averaged:
Points: 25.9/game
Rebounds: 11.2/game
Assists: 3.2/game
And Hakeem also averaged more steals and blocks in the playoffs..
With this said I'm not trying to say that Hakeem is better than Kareem, I'm just saying that some of you are taking alot away from Hakeem, it's closer than many of you are trying to imply.
[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]Prime KAJ was a 30 pt/14 reb/4 ast/4 blk/57% FG/60% TS player and upped that to like 33/15/4/57% in the playoffs. Hakeem isn't even close. Stop overrating him.[/QUOTE]
Adjust for pace, and Kareem will hardly have an edge over Dream scoring and rebounding wise. Even with higher pace Kareem's best was similar or worse than Dream's best in the Playoffs. Speaking of which, Kareem had pretty memorable meltdowns, and didnt had All-time great performance to remember. How sophomore Dream beat Showtime Lakers was more impressive than Kareem's best, and thats before getting to '94 Championship. Give Hakeem Oscar and super stacked Lakers with Magic, and he would probably have more rings than Kareem.
Above I mentioned scoring and rebounding (hardly any advantage for Kareem adjusting pace), how about defense? Hakeem was clearly better, and I mean [B]clearly[/B].
Kareem is ranked higher due to accolades and longevity, which is perfectly fine. But if I would have to choose prime Kareem or Hakeem, I'm betting on Dream.
[QUOTE=Harison]Adjust for pace, and Kareem will hardly have an edge over Dream scoring and rebounding wise. [B]Even with higher pace Kareem's best was similar or worse than Dream's best in the Playoffs. [/B]Speaking of which, Kareem had pretty memorable meltdowns, and didnt had All-time great performance to remember. How sophomore Dream beat Showtime Lakers was more impressive than Kareem's best, and thats before getting to '94 Championship. Give Hakeem Oscar and super stacked Lakers with Magic, and he would probably have more rings than Kareem.
Above I mentioned scoring and rebounding (hardly any advantage for Kareem adjusting pace), how about defense? Hakeem was clearly better, and I mean [B]clearly[/B].
Kareem is ranked higher due to accolades and longevity, which is perfectly fine. But if I would have to choose prime Kareem or Hakeem, I'm betting on Dream.[/QUOTE]
What exactly is your argument? that "Kareem's best was similar or worst" than Hakeems best in the playoffs? That's it.
Kareem won 6 regular season MVP awards. The is an unprecedented amount of dominance. You can adjust for pace all you want, Kareem was simple considered just better than everyone else in the league.
Hakeem wasnt considered better than the other great centers until the season he won titles. Lets not retroactively act like he was considered better than David Robinson because of what happen in that 1 series.
[QUOTE=millwad][B]Hakeem had his best years blown away while playing with scrubs [/B]and when he finally won he did it first with Kenny Smith, Otis Thorpe, Vernon Maxwell and Robert Horry and the year after he got a non-prime but still good Drexler with trading away Otis Thorpe.[/QUOTE]
Uh...and so were Kareem's after about '74 and even then many of the years where it looked like he could take his cast to a championship, his "second option" usually got hurt in or before the playoffs (Oscar in '72, Lucius Allen in '74, Lucius Allen and others in '77). Hakeem had it rough after '86 too though, things looked so promising but injuries and drugs killed what was a very talented core.
[QUOTE=Fatal9]Uh...and so were Kareem's after about '74 and even then many of the years where it looked like he could take his cast to a championship, his "second option" usually got hurt in or before the playoffs (Oscar in '72, Lucius Allen in '74, Lucius Allen and others in '77). Hakeem had it rough after '86 too though, things looked so promising but injuries and drugs killed what was a very talented core.[/QUOTE]
What I said was that Kareem had amazingly more talent on his teams, even during those years he didn't win smack than Hakeem did. Talentwise there are teams he played for that didn't do any noise at all that had more talent in them than Hakeem had in 94, that's a fact.
In some of those years you mention I think he had just as good or better players by his side than Hakeem had in 94 and 95. I'm not gonna mention his Lakers-period since everyone knows that he played with prime Magic and prime Worthy..
[QUOTE=IGOTGAME]What exactly is your argument? that "Kareem's best was similar or worst" than Hakeems best in the playoffs? That's it. [/QUOTE]
How Kareem's best Playoffs 34.6/17.7/4.1 on higher pace is better than Dream's 37.5/16.8/1.8? How many All-time great Kareem series do you remember? Not so many, none of them more memorable than Dream's. I could remind you of Kareem epic meltdowns, how many do you know by Dream?
[QUOTE=IGOTGAME]
Kareem won 6 regular season MVP awards. The is an unprecedented amount of dominance. You can adjust for pace all you want, Kareem was simple considered just better than everyone else in the league.[/QUOTE]
Kareem was winning over Jerry West, old Wilt, losing to Dave Cowens, McAdoo, etc. Not exactly super stacked competition, isnt? Plus MVP voting is usually tied to better record, better team = more MVPs for its star player.
Hakeem was fighting for MVP with prime Larry Bird, prime Magic, prime Jordan, Malone, DRob, young Shaq, etc. [B]and did it with a crap team.[/B] No love from voters.
As I said, swap those players, and Dream would have as much if not more MVPs, rings, and a couple of extra DPOYs as well.
[QUOTE=IGOTGAME]
Hakeem wasnt considered better than the other great centers until the season he won titles. Lets not retroactively act like he was considered better than David Robinson because of what happen in that 1 series.[/QUOTE]
DRob was fantastic player, better than Duncan, but Playoffs really harmed Robinsons image. If Kareem didnt had super stacked Lakers with Magic along, how we would view Kareem today? Losing as 1st seed to 8th seed, plenty of other upsets, getting outplayed by direct competitors. Thats not exactly stellar resume.