Does Shai EVER score off the ball?

I can't recall ever seeing him simply cut back door and get a layup or come off a pin down and just rise and shoot.

I don't see him even work much off the ball when he gets off it.

He's so proficient playing the style he plays I don't think anyone even really notices, but ultimately it's suboptimal basketball from a team perspective.

I think it's a huge part of why the Thunder are so pedestrian in the half court, along with the fact that Jdubb also plays the same way.

I notice the same thing with Luka Doncic, it's a big part of the reason why I knew him and LeBron weren't going to do anything together.

Is it a lack of ability, low motor, just the style of modern NBA basketball?

Outside of Steph and Dwade I can't think of any superstar players that were GREAT off the ball in the last 15 or so seasons.

Kevin Durant

[QUOTE=GOBB;15014671]Kevin Durant[/QUOTE]

Ehhhh, he's a mostly wing iso dude, he's good off the ball I don't think he's prolific.

No Shai is the ultimate killer. He never gets the pleasure of having the game easier for him.

He rarely calls for a guard to guard screen to get a easier match up

He rarely calls for a PnR.

He almost never gets off-ball screens or plays ran for him to get him an easy bucket.


He does it "[U]the embiid way[/U]". The toughest way! Against a loaded up defense and with the strongest defender on him at all times. If Joel simply pivots after catching the ball. The entire defense will shift and pivot with him like a conductor manipulating his orchestra. Shai doesn't have the pleasure of a triangle offense or motion offense or any other way to lessen his burden.

They throw him the ball (while he is normally being denied) or he brings the ball up himself through a full court press(94 feet of hell). Then has to beat not only his man but the 3 defenders waiting to constantly help and rotate behind him (in a never ending shuffle of help & rotate). He does this every single time down the court. Usually, with bad spacing on top of all this.

Through rain, sleet, or snow. No matter how tired he is (because they play on both ends) he has to perform for his team to have a chance. If he doesn't, its all on him. He gets 100% blame. and no respect or credit (if he wins) because he doesnt play the game in an aesthetically pleasing way. Lucky for him, he has had incredible health his entire career. He's very blessed.

He is a killer. There are not many left in the league. A true killa, through and through.

[QUOTE=Mask the Embiid;15014874]No Shai is the ultimate killer. He never gets the pleasure of having the game easier for him.

He rarely calls for a guard to guard screen to get a easier match up

He rarely calls for a PnR.

He almost never gets off-ball screens or plays ran for him to get him an easy bucket.


He does it "[U]the embiid way[/U]". The toughest way! Against a loaded up defense and with the strongest defender on him at all times. If Joel simply pivots after catching the ball. The entire defense will shift and pivot with him like a conductor manipulating his orchestra. Shai doesn't have the pleasure of a triangle offense or motion offense or any other way to lessen his burden.

They throw him the ball (while he is normally being denied) or he brings the ball up himself through a full court press(94 feet of hell). Then has to beat not only his man but the 3 defenders waiting to constantly help and rotate behind him (in a never ending shuffle of help & rotate). He does this every single time down the court. Usually, with bad spacing on top of all this.

Through rain, sleet, or snow. No matter how tired he is (because they play on both ends) he has to perform for his team to have a chance. If he doesn't, its all on him. He gets 100% blame. and no respect or credit (if he wins) because he doesnt play the game in an aesthetically pleasing way. Lucky for him, he has had incredible health his entire career. He's very blessed.

He is a killer. There are not many left in the league. A true killa, through and through.[/QUOTE]

How old are you if you don't mind me asking?

In a league of ball-dominators, one of them must win

That's the only reason that Shai will become the first high-scoring primary ball-handler, aka "ball-dominator" to win with "normal" roster of 1 franchise player... However, Jaylen Williams has elite scoring ability and will ascend to franchise player status.

Regardless, it's a testament to how weak the NBA's brand of ball is that a ball-dominator will win for the first time without a super-team of multiple franchise players on 1 team.

There are no more ball movement teams like the Spurs, Warriors, or Mavs to consistently destroy Shai like they did Lebron.

SGA about to make 3ball look dead wrong like he usually does :(

I really don't care if he is a ball-dominator or off ball player, the results speak for themselves.

I'm just enjoying SGA prove 3ball wrong the entire postseason. He thought Jokic would beat him, but was wrong. When Indiana was up 2-1 he was certain SGA's ball dominant style would lose.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15015341]SGA about to make 3ball look dead wrong like he usually does :([/QUOTE]


How exactly... Do tell

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15015341]SGA about to make 3ball look dead wrong like he usually does :([/QUOTE]


How exactly?... Do tell.

Lebron already won as a ball-dominator, but he needed to join opposing franchise players to do it - his weak chemistry needed unprecedented help...

I suspect that SGA's vastly superior scoring and clutch ability allowed him to need less help than Lebron and win with a more normal roster, plus he's also facing less ball movement opponents than ever before.

[QUOTE=3ba11;15015374]How exactly?... Do tell.

Lebron already won as a ball-dominator, but he needed to join opposing franchise players to do it - his weak chemistry needed unprecedented help...

I suspect that SGA's vastly superior scoring and clutch ability allowed him to need less help than Lebron and win with a more normal roster, plus he's also facing less ball movement opponents than ever before.[/QUOTE]

Ah so now the pacers and nuggets are non ball movement teams.

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT;15015377]Ah so now the pacers and nuggets are non ball movement teams.[/QUOTE]


they're far from elite - they aren't exactly the spurs, warriors, or even the late 90's Jazz, for example... in addition to weaker brand of ball, sga is beating dogcrap, accolade-less 1-man rosters

[QUOTE=Akhenaten;15014931]How old are you if you don't mind me asking?[/QUOTE]

who the hell are u? and why are u asking



I know that it triggers a lot of you that shai is pretty much a guard version of Embiid and he's going to win an nba championship. a 6'7 Embiid, except with impeccable health. nothing will stop the embiid's from sweeping all championships this year (world, nba,)


Skills through the roof
footwork through the roof
3-level-scoring ability through the roof
Intangibles through the roof
2 way ability through the roof

[QUOTE=3ba11;15015338]In a league of ball-dominators, one of them must win
[/QUOTE]

Gotta have that back-up plan :lol

[QUOTE=3ba11;15015382]they're far from elite - they aren't exactly the spurs, warriors, or even the late 90's Jazz, for example... in addition to weaker brand of ball, sga is beating dogcrap, accolade-less 1-man rosters[/QUOTE]

The pacers were compared to the spurs right after the ecf. What 1 man roster, the pacers have 2 stars in Haliburton and siakam. Ik you’ve made threads on how Murray scores more than and is a better sidekick than pippen but now Denver is a 1 man roster. You always try to have it both ways and you should be challenged every time you do

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT;15015387]The pacers were compared to the spurs right after the ecf. What 1 man roster, the pacers have 2 stars in Haliburton and siakam. Ik you’ve made threads on how Murray scores more than and is a better sidekick than pippen but now Denver is a 1 man roster. You always try to have it both ways and you should be challenged every time you do[/QUOTE]


The Spurs were always top 5 SRS and 60 win teams, while these Pacers are 13th and barely won 50... There's no comparison.

And Murray had one-off playoff runs and otherwise is garbage...

Btw, Siakam basically IS pippen, except he's actually a lot better because his 20 ppg is legit points that attracted defensive attention - he isn't a system player, while Pippen was a system player and wasn't capable of 15 outside the system.. Regardless, Pippen (I mean Siakam) isn't nearly enough scoring help - Jordan would be required to win with this Pacers team.

[QUOTE=Mask the Embiid;15015383]who the hell are u? and why are u asking



I know that it triggers a lot of you that shai is pretty much a guard version of Embiid [/QUOTE]


SGA actually plays a full season and doesn't wet the bed in the playoffs.

[QUOTE=Mask the Embiid;15015383]who the hell are u? and why are u asking



I know that it triggers a lot of you that shai is pretty much a guard version of Embiid and he's going to win an nba championship. a 6'7 Embiid, except with impeccable health. nothing will stop the embiid's from sweeping all championships this year (world, nba,)


Skills through the roof
footwork through the roof
3-level-scoring ability through the roof
Intangibles through the roof
2 way ability through the roof[/QUOTE]
Harden is the guard version of Embiid, but even he made it past the 2nd round.