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-   -   I think it's time (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118649)

drummer44 01-30-2009 11:14 PM

I think it's time
 
This team is getting very hard to root for.

We have Shaq and Amare *****ing about touches

We have three technicals from our leaders last night. I don't care if the refs were screwing us. Quit your damn *****ing and play ball. Every time you complain, the other team is headed in the other direction with a layup.

We got a PG that looks at the ref and *****es every time he gets himself into a double team or throws the ball away.

We have a 5 that plays hard and shines whenever he chooses to, which is about 2 games out of every 5. This same power forward has more talent than about 95% of the other power forwards out there but has more heart than only about 5% of them.

We have a coach that's clueless. This guy amazes me he got to be a head coach of our team. Either he's that bad, or our team has totally tuned him out. I think it's a combination of both.

If I were management, I'd keep Shaq, Hill, JRich, Barbs, Lou and send the rest of them packing out of here. Get what we can for Amare and Nash and rebuild around the rest of these starters and role players. Nash and Amare just have such a horrible vibe these days it's hard to watch this team play.

Time to clean house. The only reason I say keep Shaq is cause he's playing well and his numbers come off the books next year. Get what we can for Nash and Amare, Shaq comes off the books and look towards 2010. We could also trade shaq at the deadline next season to a contender for the future.

nmsunsfan 01-31-2009 04:00 AM

Re: I think it's time
 
While I agree with some of your points, I say leave the team be. They played awesome last night. If it weren't for nearly 20 more FT attempts, the Spurs lose that game. The Suns beat them at everything other than getting questionable calls.

Yeah yeah I know, a Suns fan crying about the refs... but good god it's just ridiculous sometimes. I thought a bunch of the replays on the overhead looked like BS. Countless fans were going absolutely ape****. Then I get back to the hotel and see the boxscore and it's just madness. The Spurs shot 44 fts. FOURTY FOUR. Yes the Suns still had their chances. Yes the Suns still lost. This team is better than a lot of you are giving them credit for though.

You want to see tons of regular season wins like the Suns usually produce, and so do I... but geez give it some more time. Some of you seem like all of this stuff is just supposed to work right off the bat with no issues, or else we have to blow it up AGAIN. :no:

Call me crazy if you will, but I say they just need to figure a few more things out. They have shown signs of greatness, mixed in with signs of not knowing wtf they are doing. Yes, Porter isn't perfect. Yes, the team has room for improvement and leaves something to be desired... like massive winning streaks. Hard to root for though? :rolleyes: Simply stop rooting for them then... I'm sure the Lakers bandwagon still has room. :confusedshrug:

drummer44 01-31-2009 03:58 PM

Re: I think it's time
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nmsunsfan
While I agree with some of your points, I say leave the team be. They played awesome last night. If it weren't for nearly 20 more FT attempts, the Spurs lose that game. The Suns beat them at everything other than getting questionable calls.

Yeah yeah I know, a Suns fan crying about the refs... but good god it's just ridiculous sometimes. I thought a bunch of the replays on the overhead looked like BS. Countless fans were going absolutely ape****. Then I get back to the hotel and see the boxscore and it's just madness. The Spurs shot 44 fts. FOURTY FOUR. Yes the Suns still had their chances. Yes the Suns still lost. This team is better than a lot of you are giving them credit for though.

You want to see tons of regular season wins like the Suns usually produce, and so do I... but geez give it some more time. Some of you seem like all of this stuff is just supposed to work right off the bat with no issues, or else we have to blow it up AGAIN. :no:

Call me crazy if you will, but I say they just need to figure a few more things out. They have shown signs of greatness, mixed in with signs of not knowing wtf they are doing. Yes, Porter isn't perfect. Yes, the team has room for improvement and leaves something to be desired... like massive winning streaks. Hard to root for though? :rolleyes: Simply stop rooting for them then... I'm sure the Lakers bandwagon still has room. :confusedshrug:


It's just getting hard to root for a team that has long faces, even when they're playing well. The team doesn't seem to gel at all to me. I think there's too many on this team that wants theirs instead of thinking about team, they think about themselves.

We also whine and complain way too much. It's getting old. I have a feeling the refs are sick of it also.

There were a few bad calls in the Spurs game, but there always is. I've seen our team get away with things plenty of times also. We just notice more when it's called against us. I remember when Shaq played for the other team and I thought he ran over people. Now I think he's getting mugged while he plays for us. It's just the nba, it'll never change.

In regards to being a bandwagon fan, I've been a diehard suns fan for 22 yrs, since I moved here. I have always loved the suns, but this year is hard to watch. Not because they're losing. Their whole demeanor just sucks.

Hate to say it, but this team is done. Time to start to re-tool. Is it too early to say that? Possibly, but I've been a basketball fan...Played ball in High School, love College, NBA and I get a good feel for the game. This team just has too many hurdles to be a contender. Wish I was wrong but don't think so.

Oh yea..... Screw the Luckers

ThyGreatOne 01-31-2009 04:49 PM

Re: I think it's time
 
you know, i read the points of both you's guys and one sounds like it's time to blow this thing up and the other sounds like they need more time, i think you both fall in line with how the Suns management feels right now, give it time? break it up?

personally i think, its painfully obvious to me that Amare (either cant, or wont) play with Shaq on the team, most nights Amare seems to have simply "given up" on the season, he reminds me of an uninspired Boris Diaw, i mean c'mon, we'd be all over Diaw for putting up some of the numbers Amare has, 3 points, 1 rebound, 3 rebounds, 12 points, 5 rebounds, this cat is a model of inconsistency now, its like he took the "Boris Diaw" approach to playing all the sudden.

Amare needs to check the ego at the door, stop telling everyone what he is "going to do" and get out there and just do it, i am tired of hearing about his gorilla game, his tenacious D, or whatever else he thinks he is doing, on a side note, nice job to the NBA for putting Amare in the all star game cuz there is no way he deserves it, not with as many nights as he has seem to "take" off this season.

bottom line, i keep hearing they need more time they need more time, fact is they are STRUGGLING to be a 7th or 8th seed, at this rate they will face the Lakers or Spurs in the first round and both them teams will beat the Suns in 5, the Suns management needs to make a decision, ride this out till 2010 when the larger contracts come off the books, or, decide who's team this is, is it Shaq's team, or Amare's team, then trade one or the other. Amare looks lost out there, he cant play in a half court set, or he refuses to, Shaq cant run and gun, so you gotta make a decision, personally i am sick of hearing about the Run and Gun, big deal it was fun to watch and won a lot of regular season games, fact is it never and has never produced a title, the Suns need to distance them self from that hair-brain philosophy and trade anyone that cant seem to let go of it.

i dont know what the answer is, you know if we trade Amare he will kill on another team, look at Diaw, he is a beast in Charlotte, but he wasnt doing anything for years out here. i remember how Diaw seem incapable of playing with Amare in the lineup now it seems the same thing has happen to Amare when Shaq is in the lineup. i dont get it, on paper this team should be a lot better, but its not, they got no chemistry at all, that is proven by the amount of turnovers they average, they all are trying to do it on their own and not do it as a team. i dont know if they can do it as a team, or if they even want to, and coach Porter, i said from the jump off he was the wrong coach for this team, he coached the Bucks (eastern team) and then had his hands on Detroit (eastern team) he has no coaching experience in the West, and they dont play the same style over here as over there, we all know the eastern teams are historically better on D and the western teams are usually better on offense, and the Suns bring in a defensive guy to coach a team that aint played an ounce of D in what 4 years?

you know, i keep watching, cheering, and going to the Suns games, i keep waiting for this thing to turn around, for it to gel for it to finally all come together, i just hope while waiting for all this we dont "miss the bus" you know? it seems after every game that something needs to change, but what? is it the players that need to be traded? is it the coach that needs to be fired? maybe Kerr is the problem? heck Starver might even be to blame hahaha, ok in all seriousness i'd hate to be in Suns management and have to try and figure this mess out.

nmsunsfan 01-31-2009 10:01 PM

Re: I think it's time
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drummer44
It's just getting hard to root for a team that has long faces, even when they're playing well. The team doesn't seem to gel at all to me. I think there's too many on this team that wants theirs instead of thinking about team, they think about themselves.


I really just don't see that. They want to win above all else. Yeah I have heard shaq and amare both complain about touches a couple times a piece, but in my opinion everyone will come around as the playoffs get closer. My only fear is that they will have shot themselves completely out of the running if they don't shape up soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummer44
We also whine and complain way too much. It's getting old. I have a feeling the refs are sick of it also.



This one is simple. If the refs would stop blatantly ripping us off in these games that are decided by less than 10 points, I would have nothing to complain about. If the Suns get blown out and the refs sucked the whole game, who cares? But when I watch the other team get HANDED something like 14 points over the course of a single period, it pisses me the **** off when the game is then real close down the stretch. The times that those "bad calls" DIRECTLY influence the outcome of a game are infuriating. The only thing that makes it worse is that there is absolutely ZERO recourse for this garbage. The league doesn't even recognize it. Make a bad call in the NFL, your *** is suspended and fined. Same goes for just about every other sport I can think of. Happens in the NBA, it's more or less just "get over it you crybaby fans".

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummer44
There were a few bad calls in the Spurs game, but there always is. I've seen our team get away with things plenty of times also. We just notice more when it's called against us. I remember when Shaq played for the other team and I thought he ran over people. Now I think he's getting mugged while he plays for us. It's just the nba, it'll never change.



I will wait til I get back home and watch the DVR before commenting much further on this.... However, seeing the replays on the overhead made me sick. Ginobili in particular. Dude flops every single time and they reward him for it. Then the Spurs get away with whatever they want on the other side. Makes me feel like this **** is just flat out rigged sometimes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummer44
In regards to being a bandwagon fan, I've been a diehard suns fan for 22 yrs, since I moved here. I have always loved the suns, but this year is hard to watch. Not because they're losing. Their whole demeanor just sucks.



Sorry bro I wasn't trying to imply that YOU are a bandwagon fan at all with that comment. I was just saying that if the team pisses you off and you no longer enjoy watching them, simply don't. :cheers: I do hear you though man... I am also coming up on 20 years, saw my first game in the old coliseum in 1990. I still watched them when they were a sub 500 team for many years after chuck was gone. I have seen them way worse than they are right now, in every single measurable way. Maybe I am just foolishly optimistic, but I think they can go deep into the postseason without making a single move.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummer44
Hate to say it, but this team is done. Time to start to re-tool. Is it too early to say that? Possibly, but I've been a basketball fan...Played ball in High School, love College, NBA and I get a good feel for the game. This team just has too many hurdles to be a contender. Wish I was wrong but don't think so.


I think you are wrong. When the Suns dominate the playoffs, I'll have to rub it in with a "told ya so".

Ok that one even made me :oldlol: a little... but still, I think they are going to come together in time. What would you rather?... watch them kinda suck for awhile longer, with the chance of being great when they actually DO gel?... or watch them blow this team up and then have them completely suck for another 10 years?

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummer44
Oh yea..... Screw the Luckers


Amen.

bassy500 01-31-2009 10:46 PM

Re: I think it's time
 
I 100% agree with ThyGreatOne.
I think the points he made are right on the money.
Also the orginal post is right, the time has come and its time to rebuild.
Im so over hearing "just abit more time", thats bull**** excuse to justify the mass amount of money we have on the books for our players in a team that is clinging onto the 8th seed.
Amare and Nash need to go, nash cant play in any system expect the run and gun and those days are gone so y waste ne more time with himl, get what we can now for him. And aside from fact amare clearly doesnt want to play with shaq, amare isnt happy unless hes winning, and suns are doing that often enuff so anyone with half a brain can see that in 2010 amare is gonna leave in free agency so we should get as much him as we can now to.

Agreed Porter is an idiot and i think hes a crap coach who clearly cant earn the respect of the players, but our GM Kerr is also an idiot and those 2 happen to be friends so i dnt see Porter going anywhere.
I think the finger pointing for the suns decline needs to pointed in Kerrs direction alot more, have a look at what hes done since he took over as GM of this club, we have gotten so much worse and at a alarmingly fast rate.

Everytime we lose the spurs its always the refs fault, such a load of bull.
Yes ill agree there probz has been a game or so where theyve gotten a better deal but they beat us everytym, the spurs know exactly how to stop the suns.

nmsunsfan if you cant see on the players faces there lack of enthusiam to play as a team, read some articles getting around, nash and amare have quite openly expressed there unhappniess with the team as it is.

And as for the "dominate the playoffs" call, the suns will be lucky to make playoffs and i know its grim but i actually dnt see us making the playoffs at all.
And for the amount of money on our payroll and we cant even make 8th seed you know its all wrong and a big change has to happen.

Y be mediocore and slowly continue getting worse for next 2 years? We should open our eyes and start the rebuild now cuz its gonna have to happen 2010 anyways, so y waste 2 years?

drummer44 02-02-2009 02:21 PM

Re: I think it's time
 
The all star game couldn't come at a better time. Maybe it will stop the bleeding and help turn things around.

Here's what I would do if I were management. I'd ride this thing out until the trade deadline. If we're not even remotely clicking on all cylinders by that time it's time to start rebuild.

Personally, I don't think we're going to cut it this year so here's my plan.

Make roster moves with Nash, Amare and Shaq and Hill. Throw in anyone else on the team other than Jrich, Barbosa and sweet Lou. Shaq would probably be hard to move with that contract but he's really playing well. Any teams out there need him? Nash and Amare would be easy to trade.

Tank next season

Keep JRich, Barbosa, Lou, and start to rebuild for 2010. Start all over. I don't think I'd build a team around Amare. That's a tough decision. There's just something about him, I don't think he's a leader.

Also find another coach. Porter just doesn't seem to have leadership qualities that's needed in the nba.


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