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-   -   The elephant in the room (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=255395)

franchize 03-12-2012 08:44 AM

The elephant in the room
 
Question of the day:
What gets you fired nowadays as a coach? As many of you know, I'm a Jets fan. You also robably know I utterly loathe Brian Schottenheimer for obvious reasons. Yet, the Jets seemed to love him despite year after year of mediocre offensive play. Mike D'Antoni is the equivalent in basketball.

98-99 Den 14-36 Missed Playoffs
03-04 Phx 21-40 Missed Playoffs
04-05 Phx 62-20 Lost in Conf Finals
05-06 Phx 54-28 Lost in Conf Finals
06-07 Phx 61-21 Lost in Conf Semis
07-08 Phx 55-27 Lost in 1st round
08-09 NYK 32-50 Missed Playoffs
09-10 NYK 29-53 Missed Playoffs
10-11 NYK 42-40 Lost in 1st round (got swept)
This year...losing record so far.

Are we holding on to the 2 conference finals from 04-06? Is that Mike D'Antoni's claim to fame? Is that a valid excuse for the reason our defensive philosophies have been embarassing and every star we've had here has played their worse basketball under Mike? Your thoughts

Sarcastic 03-12-2012 09:23 AM

Re: The elephant in the room
 
He's made more out of a conference finals appearance than any other coach in the history of sports.

If his system is so good, how come no one else uses it? :confusedshrug:

Jasi 03-12-2012 09:27 AM

Re: The elephant in the room
 
If it was up to me, I would have fired MDA long ago.

Our FO will not fire him until the season is over, pretending that the problem with the team is too many injuries and too little time to gel.

knickballer 03-12-2012 12:14 PM

Re: The elephant in the room
 
I'm so fed up with the MDA talk.. Right now he isn't the greatest coach but I can't put all the blame as this roster is poorly assembled. It's great on paper but it doesn't mesh together and a horrible match of players.

#1 option- Melo, pure scoring/iso forward
#2 option- Amare, perimeter scoring forward
#3 option- Lin, perimeter/slashing guard prone to turnovers
#4 option- Chandler, inside scoring mostly from putbacks or dunks
JR Smith, Steve Novak- Perimeter players, shooters
etc..

We don't have a player that can distribute the ball, we don't have a low post scorer, we either have too much long range shooters on too little on a court at a given time. Melo needs to be on a team where he is the man and the other players are built around him sorta like Lebron with the Cavs. Melo can't handle the responsibility of sharing the ball, he doesn't make anyone else better. Dolan forced the trade for Melo which I don't think MDA wanted

Last year we played better as we had an identity.
#1 option Amare Primary all-around scorer
#2 option Felton Primary ball handler/distributor
#3 option Gallo, Slashing, 3point
#4 option Fields, garbage points, energy
#5 option Williams- 3 point shooting
etc

Sarcastic 03-12-2012 12:38 PM

Re: The elephant in the room
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by knickballer
I'm so fed up with the MDA talk.. Right now he isn't the greatest coach but I can't put all the blame as this roster is poorly assembled. It's great on paper but it doesn't mesh together and a horrible match of players.

#1 option- Melo, pure scoring/iso forward
#2 option- Amare, perimeter scoring forward
#3 option- Lin, perimeter/slashing guard prone to turnovers
#4 option- Chandler, inside scoring mostly from putbacks or dunks
JR Smith, Steve Novak- Perimeter players, shooters
etc..

We don't have a player that can distribute the ball, we don't have a low post scorer, we either have too much long range shooters on too little on a court at a given time. Melo needs to be on a team where he is the man and the other players are built around him sorta like Lebron with the Cavs. Melo can't handle the responsibility of sharing the ball, he doesn't make anyone else better. Dolan forced the trade for Melo which I don't think MDA wanted

Last year we played better as we had an identity.
#1 option Amare Primary all-around scorer
#2 option Felton Primary ball handler/distributor
#3 option Gallo, Slashing, 3point
#4 option Fields, garbage points, energy
#5 option Williams- 3 point shooting
etc



You just admitted they are great on paper. It's up to the coach to make them mesh. MDA is the worst coach in the history of basketball. Do you watch the press conferences? They keep on asking what is happening, and all he can say is "I don't know".

Jasi 03-12-2012 12:40 PM

Re: The elephant in the room
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarcastic
You just admitted they are great on paper. It's up to the coach to make them mesh. MDA is the worst coach in the history of basketball. Do you watch the press conferences? They keep on asking what is happening, and all he can say is "I don't know".


I think he meant "on paper they're great individually".

But I agree with you on all the rest.

franchize 03-12-2012 12:41 PM

Re: The elephant in the room
 
The team you described from last year was a 6th seed team. Once again, is that what we're striving for? Nobody is saying to put ALL the blame on Mike. You just don't want to put ANY of the blame on him.:oldlol: He's a terrible coach, Period. He needs to go. Last years team would have lost in the 1st round also. You don't win in the playoffs without defense and it starts with his philosophy...or lack there of.

I've said it time and time again. One of the main goals on offense is to create mismatches. When you automatically switch without being forced to, you do the offense's job for them. We could have the best defensive players in the world. It wouldn't make much difference. When you switch all the time, your always caught guarding someone you shouldn't.

knickballer 03-12-2012 05:22 PM

Re: The elephant in the room
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by franchize
The team you described from last year was a 6th seed team. Once again, is that what we're striving for? Nobody is saying to put ALL the blame on Mike. You just don't want to put ANY of the blame on him.:oldlol: He's a terrible coach, Period. He needs to go. Last years team would have lost in the 1st round also. You don't win in the playoffs without defense and it starts with his philosophy...or lack there of.

I've said it time and time again. One of the main goals on offense is to create mismatches. When you automatically switch without being forced to, you do the offense's job for them. We could have the best defensive players in the world. It wouldn't make much difference. When you switch all the time, your always caught guarding someone you shouldn't.


No, I never said we should strive for the 6th seed but that squad is still better than this current knick squads as it's more balanced and has a identity with less cap and picks. If we would have continued to build the team the correct team instead of mortgaging the future we would have improved even better. What if we were to sign Chandler in the offseason or traded for Dwight, etc..

franchize 03-12-2012 07:42 PM

Re: The elephant in the room
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by knickballer
No, I never said we should strive for the 6th seed but that squad is still better than this current knick squads as it's more balanced and has a identity with less cap and picks. If we would have continued to build the team the correct team instead of mortgaging the future we would have improved even better. What if we were to sign Chandler in the offseason or traded for Dwight, etc..


Traded who for Dwight? Bare in mind that GS offered Monta Ellis and David Lee for Dwight and Orlando said no. The package we gave Denver for Melo probably would not get Dwight out of Orlando. So yea, who are we trading for Dwight?

Rameek 03-12-2012 11:52 PM

Re: The elephant in the room
 
Really guys this is getting sad.

You are quoting this dudes record with the Knicks when they tanked to get a superstar and failed. They turnover the roster at least 6 times in his regime.

Like I said before I doubt any credible and legit coach would want to come here after all this.

There was a lockout and no legit camp, dumped Billups for Chandler then added boomdizzle and JR.

What impressions do you think this makes in the coaching circle?


I really doubt he gets fired he'll probably is done at the end of the year.

hito da god 03-13-2012 12:08 AM

Re: The elephant in the room
 
i never understood why people thought the pairing of melo and amar'e could work. look at the wade and lebron pairing in miami. the reason they work is because in wade and lebron you have the two best passers at their position on the same team... and even they took time to gel.

in amar'e and stat you have essentially the same thing - two one-dimensional players who are horrific passers. how is that supposed to work again?

i think you can get by having one black hole on your team (personally i prefer melo).

but two? that'll never work in this game.

Scoooter 03-13-2012 12:10 AM

Re: The elephant in the room
 
It will only work if you have an elite, transcendant, pass-first alpha male leader at point to distribute the touches and make sure everything flows properly.

Nash at the deadline.

franchize 03-13-2012 12:11 AM

Re: The elephant in the room
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hito da god
i never understood why people thought the pairing of melo and amar'e could work. look at the wade and lebron pairing in miami. the reason they work is because in wade and lebron you have the two best passers at their position on the same team... and even they took time to gel.

in amar'e and stat you have essentially the same thing - two one-dimensional players who are horrific passers. how is that supposed to work again?

i think you can get by having one black hole on your team (personally i prefer melo).

but two? that'll never work in this game.


So why isn't our team allowed "time to gel"? They've been playing together for less time than the Heat has. Furthermore, it's been a carousel at pg and theres been moving parts all over the place. Also, the Thunder have 2 guys who are primary scorers and they have one of the best records in the league. Just curious about your thoughts on that

Scoooter 03-13-2012 12:13 AM

Re: The elephant in the room
 
The "time to gel" thing only applies to players, not coaches, right?

hito da god 03-13-2012 12:22 AM

Re: The elephant in the room
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by franchize
So why isn't our team allowed "time to gel"? They've been playing together for less time than the Heat has. Furthermore, it's been a carousel at pg and theres been moving parts all over the place. Also, the Thunder have 2 guys who are primary scorers and they have one of the best records in the league. Just curious about your thoughts on that

westbrook might take a bunch of shots but he's a good passer. a zebra can't change its stripes - neither melo nor stat are gonna wake up tomorrow and be good passers. the reason the heat can work is because wade and lebron are great passers... that has potential to work, two guys who need the ball and can't make others around them better don't have a high ceiling.


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