+2800 roster and sidekick < Hornacek, so 73 wins means CURRY is goat-like, not lebron

[3ba11]

.
Regular Season

Hornacek'.... 17.7 PER.. 2.9 bpm.. 0.153 ws/48.. 42.1 vorp.. 15/3/5 on 58.2 ts
Klay............ 16.4 PER.. 0.7 bpm.. 0.110 ws/48.. 14.4 vorp.. 19/3/2 on 57.5 ts


Playoffs

Hornacek'.... 16.5 PER.. 3.1 bpm.. 0.145 ws/48.. 14.1 vorp.. 15/4/4 on 57.5 ts
Klay............ 14.4 PER.. 0.7 bpm.. 0.091 ws/48.... 3.1 vorp.. 19/3/2 on 56.0 ts


the CONSENSUS was that the 15' Warriors weren't a good roster, such as +2800 preseason odds and a lower producer than Hornacek at 2nd option.. So the 67 and 73 wins means that Curry did a goat thing, not Lebron.. Lebron doesn't deserve props for beating a 1-man team with the only "big 3" super-team in the league and the preseason favorite.

Lebron also had unprecedented help with a 2nd option outplaying the MVP - that's like Mathurin outplaying SGA or Pippen outplaying MVP Barkley - it's impossible to lose in this scenario. yet Lebron needed 7 games because he wet the bed through 4 games (24 and 6 TO's).. So Lebron shouldn't get MORE credit for coming back, since a dominant performance or knockout is better than having to get off the canvas and basically get lucky.

[sdot_thadon]

Hornacek isn't close to Klay man stfu.

[3ba11]

Hornacek isn't close to Klay man stfu.

Not according to PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP, FTA, or APG

Btw, weaker scorers like Klay or Pippen can't be franchise players because teams led by them lack capacity to add talent, i.e. any decent scorer will surpass them as 1st option.. Accordingly, franchise players are reserved for dominant producers like Love, KAT, or AD, and their obvious dominance means that they don't need playoff success to make All-NBA...

Otoh, secondary producers like Klay or Pippen needed titles to make All-NBA, similar to Manu, Parker, Pau, Dumars or Worthy - they needed winning spotlight to be seen as All-NBA.. And no one got more winning spotlight than Pippen - he never played above a Larry Nance or Iguodala caliber, but the winning spotlight inflated him to all-time status and media accolade - he's simply the most overrated player ever.

[warriorfan]

Good thread

Sthot never saw Hornacek so his opinion is immediately discarded

[1987_Lakers]

PER doesn't take into account defense, and Klay was one of the best man defenders in the league during his prime.

I like Hornacek though, underrated playmaker, but Utah Hornacek doesn't come close to the player prime Klay was.

[warriorfan]

PER doesn't take into account defense, and Klay was one of the best man defenders in the league during his prime.

I like Hornacek though, underrated playmaker, but Utah Hornacek doesn't come close to the player prime Klay was.

Klay Thompson is the most overrated defender in the modern era.

He was decent but he was no where near some lock down elite perimeter guy.

[1987_Lakers]

Klay Thompson is the most overrated defender in the modern era.

He was decent but he was no where near some lock down elite perimeter guy.

Disagree, his man defense in particular was top notch. In particular, I remember him playing stick glue defense on every one of his assignments during the '17 postseason.

[1987_Lakers]

Where you could give Klay shit is the other aspects of his defense, in particular off ball, team/help defense. He wasn't particularly great in those areas which limited his defensive impact (it shows in the advanced stats).

But as a man defender, I've never seen a pure shooter as good as Klay.

[warriorfan]

Got some data to back up your stuff? Or is this just a “trust me bro”

[tpols]

Hornacek isn't close to Klay man stfu.

Actually the playoff data says Hornacek was slightly better over signifigant sample size. Welcome to reality.

[Lebron23]

Hornacek and John Stockton averaged 10 ppg and 9.7 ppg in the 1998 NBA finals. The 2020 miami heat have out of their 5 players averaged more points than Hornacek and Stockton. Jordan had terrible competition in the 1990's.

[Full Court]

No question Curry is the best player of his generation.

Curry is everything that Bronie fans wish Lebron was, and is not.

[sdot_thadon]

Actually the playoff data says Hornacek was slightly better over signifigant sample size. Welcome to reality.

So the end all be all criteria of "scoring .matters most" ....."uh uh eye test"...."uhh uhh rangz" goes out the window depending on which way we want to bend? Because I guarantee Klay annihilates Hornacek as a scorer without looking at a single stat. And as a defender? Kinda laughable comparison and that's not to say Jeff was some pushover, he was a very good player but Klay was a borderline great player even if we're being modest. Amd i actively disliked both players but by the standards the actors in this thread use in other threads, there's no way to have this conversation and put Jeff anywhere near Klay.

[Lebron23]

No question Curry is the best player of his generation.

Curry is everything that Bronie fans wish Lebron was, and is not.

Nope
4x NBA MVP 4x finals mvp is better than 1 NBA finals mvp and 2 finals MVP.

[tpols]

So the end all be all criteria of "scoring .matters most" ....."uh uh eye test"...."uhh uhh rangz" goes out the window depending on which way we want to bend? Because I guarantee Klay annihilates Hornacek as a scorer without looking at a single stat. And as a defender? Kinda laughable comparison and that's not to say Jeff was some pushover, he was a very good player but Klay was a borderline great player even if we're being modest. Amd i actively disliked both players but by the standards the actors in this thread use in other threads, there's no way to have this conversation and put Jeff anywhere near Klay.

No its not just scoring. Jeff was better in almost every advanced stat. Way better playmaker and dynamic offensive player while also shooting more efficiently than Klay. Klay is a better defender which lessens the gap but perhaps not by enough to overtake him. Hornacek was an above average defender as well and Klays defense is vastly overrated. He was a basic man defender with average help defense and defensive rebounding. Even then he wasnt even the best man defender on his own team. That would be iggy or dray.

So what youre saying doesn't make sense. Its impossible for somebody to beat you in every advanced stat and you're not even close to them. Doesn't add up.