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Old 05-17-2007, 07:04 PM   #1
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Default Important NOTICE: Mainstream Media spin has gone out of control

Ron Paul.

This man is a true conservative. He is a traditionalist by every sense of the word and he lives and dies by the US constitution.

Never heard of him? Don't worry, that's normal if you focus on mainstream media or only partially pay attention to politics. He's only the guy that's dominating in the polls and only gets ignored, quotes completely distorted, irrationally bashed for being a "conspiracy nut" when he never has agreed with one, and frequently laughed at by fat white guys that call him a "silly anarchist".

I'm now positive, without a shadow of a doubt, the media, especially Fox News, is controlled and run by neo-con fascists.

Oh, evidence? You think I'm spouting "tin foil hat" conspiracies? You may think that, but you'd be pretty far off. All you have to do for evidence is look at Ron Paul in Tuesday's republican debate:

Ron Paul was questioned about why he disagreed with the rest of the mindless sh*t spattering republicans. Ron Paul, clearly stated to anyone with the brain size larger than a pea, that the US policies against the middle east was a contributing factor in 9/11; lot's of Arabs were angry at the USA and explained how it wasn't "conservative" to police the world and kills hundreds of thousands of innocent Arabs. Paul was then asked if he said the US was responsible for what happened on 9/11, which he promptly responded with "No, US policy..."

Rudy Giuliani, a brainless talking head, immediately interrupted Paul, and claimed "I've heard tons of theories on 9/11, but one who thinks that the US was for responsible for the attacks, I've never heard something that ridiculous before, and I ask Ron Paul to withdraw that statement"

(The prescreened Pro-bush audience then applauded and screamed for Rudi's blatant misquotation)

Paul after immediately shot down that childish remark by Rudy.

However, proceeding the debate, neo-cons from every angle had to come in and take his shot at Ron; from Michael Steele considering him a "fake" candidate, Carl Cameron calling Rudy's blatant lie about Paul a "slapdown", To Michelle Malkin and John Gibson double team him and falsely accuse him of siding with 9/11 "conspiracy tin foil hat wearers". (URL's include video proof)

The interesting, yet funny point is: despite all the smearing the mainstream media has done to Ron Paul, most intelligent American's aren't buying the neo-con act!

Here's a little photo from Fox News' own poll about who won the debate:


Wow, despite that "smackdown" Rudy apparently gave Paul, he is still WON the debate according to the people. Of course, Sean Hannity, as you saw on the picture above the pole, tried to rationalize the poll results by saying "he didn't send in his text.

Furthermore, did anyone see the first republican debate on MSNBC? Do you know who won it? Sure, the media claimed "McCain", but not according to the American people: Let's look at the polls again, shall we?



Of course, this means nothing, as CNN tells us, according to "their polls", they say Ron Paul has less than 1% of the polls.


The Media is f*cked, please if you're a real republican, you must boycott fox news.
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Old 05-17-2007, 07:06 PM   #2
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Default Re: Important NOTICE: Mainstream Media spin has gone out of control

And that MSNBC poll? Yes, that screenshot was taken early, but 20,000 votes after, Paul leads by an even greater margin.
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Old 05-17-2007, 07:08 PM   #3
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Default Re: Important NOTICE: Mainstream Media spin has gone out of control

there's this section of this board called Off Topic, you'll probably get better response there...
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Old 05-17-2007, 07:09 PM   #4
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Default Re: Important NOTICE: Mainstream Media spin has gone out of control

Are you looking where you're posting? you're there.
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Old 05-17-2007, 07:41 PM   #5
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Default Re: Important NOTICE: Mainstream Media spin has gone out of control

Can I get one rebuttal or response?
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Old 05-17-2007, 08:02 PM   #6
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Default Re: Important NOTICE: Mainstream Media spin has gone out of control

Quote:
Originally Posted by XxNeXuSxX
Can I get one rebuttal or response?
Never heard of him but I'm reading about him now. Give me time.
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Old 05-18-2007, 07:39 AM   #7
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Default Re: Important NOTICE: Mainstream Media spin has gone out of control

bump
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Old 05-18-2007, 10:37 AM   #8
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Default Re: Important NOTICE: Mainstream Media spin has gone out of control

Damn. That's some interesting stuff. Doesnt Ron Paul want to GET RID of the IRS though? I am not sure if that is such a great idea.

But his stance on issues doesnt seem to be that bad.

http://www.ontheissues.org/TX/Ron_Paul.htm

But there isnt anything to dispute really because I know the media twists stuff around.

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Old 05-18-2007, 11:02 AM   #9
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Default Re: Important NOTICE: Mainstream Media spin has gone out of control

Nexus, your not getting a rebuttal cause you are right.
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Old 05-18-2007, 11:09 AM   #10
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Default Re: Important NOTICE: Mainstream Media spin has gone out of control

Well, that's all nice and good but the "Polls" that Fox took were not scientific at all, God knows how many Liberals were voting. We're looking for a CONSERVATIVE Candidate, not a Liberal dressed like one.

Point blank, I considered Ron Paul a while back and didn't like what I saw. He is NOT a Conservative by any stretch of the imagination. He is an isolationist that wants us to run away from tough problems and ignore them, HOPING they don't come here. That's not Conservative but more importantly that's irresponsible.

After watching the answers from Ron Paul I can firmly state that he's an idiot and will never draw a cent of my money nor can he be counted on for a vote. If he is the Republican candidate at the end of the day, I'll give up and stay home on election day. As much as I won't vote for any of the Democrats that are currently running, neither will I vote for an idiot that refuses to accept life after horses. Things have changed in this world and isolationism was proven ineffective in the 40's. No reason at ALL to think that it will work today.

We, as in Conservatives, not idiotic isolationist and pro-drug Libertarians.
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Old 05-18-2007, 11:13 AM   #11
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Default Re: Important NOTICE: Mainstream Media spin has gone out of control

Let's see..

Ron Paul on the issues...

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/html/Issues_fx.html

Debt and Taxes:

Wants to cut taxes and spending. A good thing. Wants to sieze control of the Federal Reserve from private banks and put it in Government hands... ok, I thought Government control was bad to him?? Regardless of how he wants to do the Federal Reserve, getting back to Constitutional spending would be a good thing. I give him a B+.

American Independance and Sovereignty.

Close the borders.. ok.. HOW? Wants out of the UN, however much I hate them, this is a very negative thing. At least right now we have some control and some say. Give up our right to Veto and we lose a lot of international power, of course he would rather us be a nation that doesn't protect foreign interests at all apparently. Wants us out of all trade agreements and I'm sorry but that would hurt this economy far worse than it would help. I give him a C-, only because he wants to do the impossible and close our borders. He gets the effort points for that but other than closing the borders I would give him an F on this.

War and Foreign policy.

The first thing I noticed is that he uses the fear mongering of the draft. That's complete and total BS and he knows it. It's there to SCARE people to your way of thinking. The second thing I noticed is apparently he knows squat about the Constitution because it DOES NOT REQUIRE A FORMAL DECLARATION OF WAR in order to take action to protect our interests. That is a talking point that is dead wrong and any idiot that believes it needs to sit down and READ the damn Constitution. Then after saying that we won't protect foreign interests with force, he ignorantly states that we need to trade with other nations and have diplomacy with them. How in the HELL do we accomplish this? If we're not willing to DEFEND our interests abroad and we're not willing to help defend our friends, then what's the point? He's living in a freaking dream world. I give him an F on this issue.. F-. He gets a damn 0.

Border security and imigration reform:

Step 1 in his plan is physically impossible. We would spend BILLIONS and essentially lock down this nation to try to accomplish this task. It's freaking insane to believe that we can "Secure" the following. It is a DREAM and would require restrictions that no one will tolerate. We have to fix the PROBLEM instead of trying to fix the things that are impossible to fix.

Quote:
The United States has 5,525 miles of border with Canada and 1,989 miles with Mexico. Our maritime border includes 95,000 miles of shoreline, and a 3.4 million square mile exclusive economic zone. Each year, more than 500 million people cross the borders into the United States, some 330 million of whom are non-citizens.

I'm with him on fixing imigration but again, I'm not as paranoid about imigration as he seems to be. This nation was built from imigrants and it is WHO WE ARE so talking about stopping imigration is just idiotic.

Privacy and personal liberty.

He's a paranoid schitzo on this issue. We must stop the movement towards a national ID? What the **** do you think Social Security cards are? The Patriot Act is another issue he's paranoid about and reading far too much into. He claims it's allowing searches without oversight but he is wrong. Any warrant issued without SEALED information is reviewed after the fact and any violations are dealt with. It is simply STUPID to handicap the law enforcement when you're trying to deal with issues that involve terrorism that could result in thousands of deaths due to the nature of how warrants are obtained. It needed to be modified and they did that. I cannot find ONE SINGLE CASE of abuse as of yet and if done as the Patriot Act requires you won't hear of one. Again, trying to stop abuses of a law is no reason to ban that law.

We lost the national ID battle somewhere around 1935. We lost it further with drivers license. We lost it further with a State ID card. We lost it further when people started using your Social Security number for credit ratings. If you're concerned about a national ID as you claim, then you'll push for the abolishment of Social Security. Christ, you can't even WORK without that little card. I hate to tell you this but the Government has access to just about EVERYTHING that you do thanks to TAXES. They know how much I make. They know how much my house was. They know what I have in retirement. They know how much my car was. They know where I live and to be honest it would shock me if they didn't know how many times a week I used the bathroom.

Bush didn't create Social Security and frankly it's really getting old to blame him for everything.

Sorry, your little Libbie dressed up like a Conservative isn't worth voting for. He is out of touch with reality, though on paper a lot of what he says would be great. In reality it will not work. The ONLY thing he has to offer that I agree with is spending cuts and smaller tax bills.


More on his site reveal that he's bought into the Nafta super highway as ending American freedom.

Sorry but he's too paranoid to be serving as my President. He is no where CLOSE to having what it takes to obtain my vote. Drop the paranoid crap, stop blaming US for terrorist attacks and start pushing things that make SENSE and I'll vote for him. Until then, he's just another paranoid Libertarian and that I cannot vote for.

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Old 05-18-2007, 12:15 PM   #12
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Default Re: Important NOTICE: Mainstream Media spin has gone out of control

WOw heilige you got owned in that one thread but I like your stance on this subject.
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Old 05-18-2007, 02:15 PM   #13
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Default Re: Important NOTICE: Mainstream Media spin has gone out of control

A lot of Paul's views are anachronistic and unfeasible.

But your point remains, and it is disturbing. The fact that any Conservative that dares go against the Neo-con grain, and mind you this guy is far from Liberal and closer to 19th century Isolationist Conservative, is immediately character assassinated and ridiculed throughout a supposedly unbiased media is disgusting.

also, when the Fox News team + Rudy got outraged and furious over the suggestion that 9/11 miiiight have possibly been fueled by our constant military intervention in the Middle East rather than those god damn ignorant mooslims being jealous of our awesome minivans and starbucks frappachinos, it was ****in hilarious.
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Old 05-18-2007, 02:48 PM   #14
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Default Re: Important NOTICE: Mainstream Media spin has gone out of control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombles
A lot of Paul's views are anachronistic and unfeasible.

But your point remains, and it is disturbing. The fact that any Conservative that dares go against the Neo-con grain, and mind you this guy is far from Liberal and closer to 19th century Isolationist Conservative, is immediately character assassinated and ridiculed throughout a supposedly unbiased media is disgusting.

also, when the Fox News team + Rudy got outraged and furious over the suggestion that 9/11 miiiight have possibly been fueled by our constant military intervention in the Middle East rather than those god damn ignorant mooslims being jealous of our awesome minivans and starbucks frappachinos, it was ****in hilarious.


Right.

It's got nothing to do with Saudi Arabia giving license to hateful and evil imams that deflect the anger of the populace onto Israel and the United States - or the 39,000 madrassahs teaching hate in Pakistan, and the ones that were teaching hate in Afghanistan. It's got nothing to do with the fact that Islam in the middle east has been at war with western society since its inception. It's got nothing to do with Palestinians sending their children to summer camp to learn how to murder Jews. It's got nothing to do with the fact that Mohammed raped, burned, and pillaged his way across the Arabian Peninsula, and extremists are living out his example. It's got nothing to do with the Islamists' goal of a global caliphate. It's got nothing to do with any of that. It's all our foreign policy.

How wonderfully naive of you.
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Old 05-18-2007, 03:10 PM   #15
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Default Re: Important NOTICE: Mainstream Media spin has gone out of control

Ever notice how when a terrorist organization achieves one or more of their stated goals, they keep on fighting anyway?

For an individual who thinks for themselves, this indicates that the reasons they gave for fighting were "pretext" i.e. lies to cover an ulterior motive.

Sure, bin Laden wants us out of Saudi Arabia. He hated us long before we were there, and will continue to hate us should we ever leave.

If you think you can give the terrorist what they want and expect them to stop hating you, then you really are hopeless.

Here...enlighten yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb

Stop being intellectually lazy. Stop applying an American mentality to a Middle East mindset.

Naivety and ignorance are people such as yourself who don't know the first thing about middle east history, nitpicking one speech OBL gave and trying to somehow surmise from your tiny knowledge the true motivations of the Islamists.

The Islamist movement far outdates Israel or our involvement in the middle east. Go look up the history of the Muslim Brotherhood...you can start there.

Saudia Arabia is hated because they are considered a secular government by Islamist standards, particularly Salafi standards. They are what Qutbists and the Muslim Brotherhood deem a "near evil." Has nothing to do with the US.

I suppose you are unaware of the massive amounts of foriegn aid we give Arab nations (Egypt is #2), and are comfortable with Paul's 9/11 and other conspiracies.

Or the fact that we went to war to save Muslims from genocide (Kosovo).

Islamists don't care about the billions in dollars we give to them, or the lives of our soldiers we gave to defend them in the Balkans.


Do you understand the concept of Jahiliyya? Do you know who Sayyid Qutb is? You realize that both Bin Laden and Zawahiri are products of the Qutbist mentality. Islamists are not a reactionary force, they have declared, quite publicly, that in order to defeat the far evil, the near evil must first be toppled. The near evil is not Israel either. It is secular arab governments.

Its the Muslim Brotherhood...seriously, stop letting people tell you what to think, and start doing your own research.

People like to believe that 9-11 happened because of something we did. Its an easy answer and an easy fix. In this mentality, America can just change their ways and the Islamists will stop. How cute.


Thomas Friedman:

"After every major terrorist incident, the excuse makers come out to tell us...why the terrorists acted. These excuse makers are just one notch less despicable than the terrorists and also deserve to be exposed. When you live in an open society like London, where anyone with a grievance can publish an article, run for office or start a political movement, the notion that blowing up a busload of innocent civilians in response to Iraq is somehow "understandable" is outrageous. "

The Muslim Brotherhood was a movement based after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire. The arabs, once noble and proud, searched for reasons as to why the Ottoman Empire had been so soundly defeated in WWI. The answer the Muslim Brotherhood perpetuated was: because teh arab world had strayed from Allah, they moved towards secular governments and forgotten what Muhammad had taught them. THe only way to recapture their glory, they surmised, was to return to the unadulterated, pure Islam (which is every bit as much political as it is religious.)

When you call terrorism a reactionary force, which is what you do when you say 9-11 happened because of our bombing of Iraq, you try and make it "understandable." Worse, you move the focus away from the reality...that the Islamists want to recapture the height of the Islamic Empires.

Netanyahu has stated, and backed up his assertion, that Israel is attacked because it is perceived as Little America, not the other way around.

Now, admittedly, Netanyahu has an agenda, and I don't know if I completely buy that...but one thing is clear and sure:

BEFORE there ever was a state of Israel, Sayyid Qutb was railing against the US as a source of Jahiliyya in the world, and saying that no muslim could be a good muslim with America's decadent and corrupt culture present in the world.

You just don't realize that the Islamists attack us to drive us out so they will have a clear battlefield on which to build the world conquering Caliphate. Yes, our foriegn policy is to support moderate and friendly regimes in the ME, because it's in our own national security interest to do so. We fight the little manageable war now, so we don't have to fight the world encompassing conflagration they envision later. If we return to our pre WWII non-interventionist stance, we will be doing nothing but inviting the next world war. Ron and the Paulettes need to get passed 1939, it's over.


Look, I'm not saying American Foreign Policy has been spectacular over the past 50 years in the ME. In fact, I think our foreign policy has played into the hands of the Islamists, until now. (Iraq has been a complete reverse of our previous foreign policy, and the Islamists are scared as hell.) But regardless, the Islamist movement is NOT a reaction to our foreign policy...only intellectually lazy people make those assertions.

The problem Bush faces is that there are no easy solutions to this problem. Its not really just WWIII. Its a "perfect storm" per se. You have an Islamist movement, the end of the cold war, our failed foreign policy in the region over the past 50 years, an enabling UN, a truly GLOBAL Economy, a globalized world which is much smaller (one in which 19 ticked off youth can get on a plane and be on the other side of the world in a day.), a technological revolution, and a real time world (where something one world leader says can be heard around the world within 5 minutes.)

The battelfield is different because the world is different. And there are no easy answers, and Bush knows this. Look at this thread...so many people just want easy answers, and most are too lazy to snap out of their cocoon to take a look around. Isn't it ironic that in an information age, there are so many ignorant people. How can more people not know about Sayyid Qutb while we're in the midst of an information boom?

We're moving into a different period of civilization. And quite frankly, the isolationist crowd scares me just as much as the peacenik crowd does.

Our FP is what it is because it is in our interest for it to be that way. Supporting Israel was in our interest, so we did. Supporting the Arab regimes in the 80's and early 90's was in our interst so we did. The 8 years of Clinton were a big nothing which neither built on past policy nor lent anything useful to a new one, more or less a time of drift. It attempte to support Moderate Arab regimes and molify terrorist, dumbass didn't realize you can't do both. The result was a growing extremist movement (due to its success with Clinton) at the same time secular Arab regimes were moderating and becoming less militant. bad mix. The Bush policy of introducing and spreading liberty in the ME is the only long term solution with any chance of success in building a lasting peace.


Our FP was in the context of a cold war. (Which people always forget) THe ME was going to be the battleground between us and USSR.

I tend to agree with Friedman on the point, our foreign policy to the arab regimes was "Leave Israel alone and keep the oil flowing, and we'll turn a blind eye as to what you have to do to get that done." Again, context is everything, and we had bigger concerns than Islamists at the time...but that type of foreign policy did get us in trouble.

For the arab street (not the Islamists who have a whole other agenda), they saw their regimes butchering them, and they saw America as supporting their regimes. So it made them prone to the brainwashing by the Islamists.

I believe that you defeat an enemy by destroying its resources. Islamists resources are impoverished, hopeless youth. By going into Iraq, not only do we correct our own wrongs from yesterday, but we can give those youth hope for a better future. And people with hope don't strap bombs onto their chest.

Pulling out of Iraq would be disastrous, and would indeed fuel the fire already raging.

London is interesting. Did you know that's where Islamists from all over the world come to buy and trade Islamist videos and propaganda? Islamists videos and propaganda are not allowed in most ME countries, so the propagandists set up shop in London and use London's freedom of speech to perpetuate the hatred and violence.

In all honesty, London is another incident of what's happening. "the West's Last Chance" by Blankley talks about what's happening in Europe, and Mark Steyn's "America Alone," elaborates. That is where the Clash of Civilizations is being fought. Muslims are immigrating into Europe at unprecedented speed, and are demanding that Europe change who it is to cater to the Islamist ideology.

Yes...again, seriously, look up Muslim Brotherhood, Sayyid Qutb and Jahiliyya...its all there.

You want to find a conspiracy theory, start by asking yourself why these three things are not more widely known in America.
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