OP is the biggest LeBron stan i've ever seen.
And you dont have to like someone to Stan them, it usual starts off as love and grows to hate.
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OP is the biggest LeBron stan i've ever seen.
And you dont have to like someone to Stan them, it usual starts off as love and grows to hate.
Gotta trade Westbrook for Rondo.
LeBron vs. 2008 Celtics, 2009 Magic, 2010 Celtics >> Kobe vs. 2008 Celtics, 2009 Magic, and 2010 Celtics.
[QUOTE=Lebron23]LeBron vs. 2008 Celtics, 2009 Magic, 2010 Celtics >> Kobe vs. 2008 Celtics, 2009 Magic, and 2010 Celtics.[/QUOTE]
Why? because Lebron ran iso's for 45 min. and racked up numbers.
"The only stats that matters are winning stats" - Charlie Rosen
[QUOTE=Magic 32]Why? because Lebron ran iso's for 45 min. and racked up numbers.
"The only stats that matters are winning stats" - Charlie Rosen[/QUOTE]
Kobe's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th scoring options. Gasol, Lamar Odom, and Bynum
Lebron's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th scoring options Mo Williams, Past His Prime Shaq, and Antawn Jamison.
[QUOTE=Lebron23]Kobe's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th scoring options. Gasol,[B][SIZE="5"] Lamar Odom, and Bynum
[/SIZE][/B]
Lebron's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th scoring options Mo Williams, Past His Prime Shaq, and Antawn Jamison.[/QUOTE]
and?
Shaq and Jamison were much better options thyen Bynum and odom...
The natural evolution of a thread on ISH....let one drag on past 2 or 3 pages, and it will always turn into a LeBron/Kobe thread.
[QUOTE=LBJ 23]I don't usually read your posts but I've read through this thread and cuz you're obsessed with Lebron let me tell you this....
Lebron was doing all this what Durant is doing right now, and much more in Cleveland with even weaker teams than OKC is right now without Westbrook. And you know what you and your kind of breed were saying? It's just ''empty stats'', ''Lebron ball'' etc,....
First one that comes to mind is that Magic series where he put up like 38-8-8, but his team lost the series and it was called ''empty stat padding''. Now, when Durant puts up crazy stats but his team loses we sing different song than we did with Lebron eh? We should respect this ''empty stats padding'' now with Durant right ripthekik? Even if his team lost?
I don't really think about Durant what I wrote above(of course we should respect him and he should get praise for the way he has been playing lately), I just want to show the double standards and hypocrisy by the retards like ripthekik when it comes to Lebron.[/QUOTE]
Word. :applause:
[QUOTE=Magic 32]Durant vs Grizz g1-2 = 35.5 pts, 13 reb, 7.5 ast.
Lebron vs Magic g1-2 = 42pts, 5 reb, 8 ast.
Durant is playing the better team. And after these 2 games, Lebron shot 42% for the rest of the series.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure the 2009 Magic are better than the Grizzlies, they almost beat the most stacked team of the league that year in the finals.
[QUOTE]Lebron was doing all this what Durant is doing right now, and much more in Cleveland with even weaker teams than OKC is right now without Westbrook. And you know what you and your kind of breed were saying? It's just ''empty stats'', ''Lebron ball'' etc,....
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I don't know about that part. OKC, without Westbrook, is very comparable to LeBron's Cavs teams.
[QUOTE=Solefade]Pretty sure the 2009 Magic are better than the Grizzlies, they almost beat the most stacked team of the league that year in the finals.[/QUOTE]
At the absolute best it's debatable. Orlando only won 3 more games that year than the Grizzlies this year, and the East was just as weak then as it is right now. Orlando was a 101.9 DRtg team and the Grizzlies are a 100.3 DRtg team. Orlando had the better defensive anchor, but Memphis has better perimeter and team defense in my opinion.
[QUOTE=Solefade]Pretty sure the 2009 Magic are better than the Grizzlies, they almost beat the most stacked team of the league that year in the finals.[/QUOTE]
Lakers had 2 allstars....Cavs had 2 allstars.....
Cavs had a much better bench so once again...
April 2013
[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]Lakers had 2 allstars....Cavs had 2 allstars.....
Cavs had a much better bench so once again...
April 2013[/QUOTE]
Yeah...cause it's that simple. Mo Williams = Pau Gasol.
[QUOTE=KG215]Yeah, I don't know about that part. OKC, without Westbrook, is very comparable to LeBron's Cavs teams.[/QUOTE]
Martin is better second option than Mo Wilimas and Ibaka as the best shotblocker in the league is way better as any big Lebron played with. Of course, not looking just at the last 2-3 games to evaluate Ibaka and Martin.
God this thread is awful. Your obsession with Lebron's legacy is ridiculous OP.
[QUOTE=LBJ 23]Martin is better second option than Mo Wilimas[/QUOTE]
No, he's not. Not at this point in his career.
[QUOTE]And Ibaka as the best shotblocker in the league is way better as any big Lebron played with. Of course, not looking just at the last 2-3 games to evaluate Ibaka and Martin.[/QUOTE]
Ibaka I'll give you, because he's not as bad as he's been playing the last few games. But I don't see how anyone can definitively say Kevin Martin is better than Mo Williams was in 2009 and 2010. And with Ibaka, he played really well off Westbrook. This is the first time in his you career he's having to play without Russ, someone who he's pretty reliant on to get him a lot of his easier shots, and it's showing.
[QUOTE=KG215]No, he's not. Not at this point in his career.
Ibaka I'll give you, because he's not as bad as he's been playing the last few games. But I don't see how anyone can definitively say Kevin Martin is better than Mo Williams was in 2009 and 2010. And with Ibaka, he played really well off Westbrook. This is the first time in his you career he's having to play without Russ, someone who he's pretty reliant on to get him a lot of his easier shots, and it's showing.[/QUOTE]
he's a better scorer/shooter than Mo Williams, they both are pretty useless on defense....I'll take Kevin Martin
[QUOTE=KG215]No, he's not. Not at this point in his career.
[/QUOTE]
You're right, statistically-wise Mo was slightly better.
[QUOTE=Lebron23]Kobe's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th scoring options. Gasol, Lamar Odom, and [B]Bynum[/B]
Lebron's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th scoring options Mo Williams, Past His Prime Shaq, and Antawn Jamison.[/QUOTE]
You do realize that Bynum averaged 6 points per game and 8 points per game in the playoffs during their b2b championship runs.
Not really what i'd call a scoring option
[QUOTE=aburre21]he's a better scorer/shooter than Mo Williams, they both are pretty useless on defense....I'll take Kevin Martin[/QUOTE]
And Mo Williams was a better ball-handler, playmaker, and could somewhat create offense off the bounce.
[QUOTE=KG215]Yeah...cause it's that simple. Mo Williams = Pau Gasol.[/QUOTE]
Sure, Mo Williams and Antwan Jamison weren't superstar co-runners and the Cavs roster didn't look great on paper outside of LeBron, but they were always a top defensive and top rebounding team under Mike Brown and in LeBron's last two years, one of the top 3 point shooting teams. They assembled a well built team with appropriate pieces that fit and complimented Lebron's game, strengths and playing style.
It's pretty much the same formula in Miami: surround LeBron with shooters and hustlers, scrappy defenders/rebounders, guys that don't need the ball in their hands to be productive and let LeBron control the offense. Only (and big) difference is he has another superstar who can get his own shot anytime in Wade and not to mention a stretch 4 who was the face of a franchise that would be the best player on most other teams in the league and is a freaking 3rd option.
[QUOTE=Ne 1]Sure, Mo Williams and Antwan Jamison weren't superstar co-runners and the Cavs roster didn't look great on paper outside of LeBron, but they were always but they were always a top defensive and top rebounding team under Mike Brown and in LeBron's last two years, one of the top 3 point shooting teams. They assembled a well built team with appropriate pieces that fit and complimented Lebron's game, strengths and playing style.
It's pretty much the same formula in Miami: surround LeBron with shooters and hustlers, scrappy defenders/rebounders, guys that don't need the ball in their hands to be productive and let LeBron control the offense. [B]Only (and big) difference is he has another superstar who can get his own shot anytime[/B] in Wade and not to mention a stretch 4 who was the face of a franchise that would be the best player on most other teams in the league and is a freaking 3rd option.[/QUOTE]
Which is HUGE in the playoffs.
[QUOTE=Ne 1]Sure, Mo Williams and Antwan Jamison weren't superstar co-runners and the Cavs roster didn't look great on paper outside of LeBron, but they were always but they were always a top defensive and top rebounding team under Mike Brown and in LeBron's last two years, one of the top 3 point shooting teams. They assembled a well built team with appropriate pieces that fit and complimented Lebron's game, strengths and playing style.
It's pretty much the same formula in Miami: surround LeBron with shooters and hustlers, scrappy defenders/rebounders, guys that don't need the ball in their hands to be productive and let LeBron control the offense. Only (and big) difference is he has another superstar who can get his own shot anytime in Wade and not to mention a stretch 4 who was the face of a franchise that would be the best player on most other teams in the league and is a freaking 3rd option.[/QUOTE]
Lol they actually have a real system in Miami instead of LeBron iso at the top of the key. Come on now man. And Also, Mo Williams wasn't even considered at All-Star let alone a superstar lol.
[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]Lakers had 2 allstars....Cavs had 2 allstars.....
Cavs had a much better bench so once again...
April 2013[/QUOTE]
When did Cavs have two all-stars? Oh you mean after 2-3 players got injured before All-star weekend and Mo finally got the call?
Dumb Kobe stan.
[QUOTE=aburre21]he's a better scorer/shooter than Mo Williams, they both are pretty useless on defense....I'll take Kevin Martin[/QUOTE]
I'd take Kevin Martin, it was frustrating as **** to watch Mo play most nights because he was so inconsistent. K-Mart doesn't do anything else besides score but at least he's consistent. Averaging 14-15ppg as a 3rd option is nothing to sneeze at even at this point in his career.
[QUOTE=Solefade]I'd take Kevin Martin, it was frustrating as **** to watch Mo play most nights because he was so inconsistent. [B]K-Mart doesn't do anything else besides score but at least he's consistent.[/B] Averaging 14-15ppg as a 3rd option is nothing to sneeze at even at this point in his career.[/QUOTE]
Well, at least you've confirmed you haven't been watching any OKC playoff games. And hell, he wasn't all that consistent the second half of the season either.
[QUOTE=LBJ 23]You're right, statistically-wise Mo was slightly better.[/QUOTE]
As much as LeBron fan boys like to disparage him, if you watched him in Milwaukee Mo was much more than a stationery catch and shoot jump shooter...but that's what LeBron (and Mike Brown's system) made him, he actually scored and assisted more than he did in Cleveland (partly because LeBron is so ball-dominant, he needs the ball in his hands to dominate, especially in the half court) Jamison was averaging 20 a game on 45-46% shooting for 10 straight years, but suddenly in Cleveland he forgot how to score and was a scrub?
It goes on and on...
It just amazes me that after a series loss to Boston (a team that was 5 points from the title) every guy expect for LeBron that was on what was believed to be the best and deepest team in the league was then considered to be a worthless scrub, :lol
Durant's trying to flop OKC into the Finals.
[QUOTE=KG215]Well, at least you've confirmed you haven't been watching any OKC playoff games. And hell, he wasn't all that consistent the second half of the season either.[/QUOTE]
I've already acknowledged they've been underperforming as of late but by no means from just a raw talent stand point are they worse than the former Cavs squads. You take LeBron off that team and they automatically drop to the lottery. There's still evidence of how shitty that squad was from the day he left until now even with Kyrie on that team.
[QUOTE=Ne 1]
It just amazes me that after a series loss to Boston (a team that was 5 points from the title) every guy expect for LeBron that was on what was believed to be the best and deepest team in the league was then considered to be a worthless scrub, :lol[/QUOTE]
It showed the following year when he left ... these guys collectively became the worst team in the league.
Inrefutable proof that no amount of smiley faces can deny.
[QUOTE=Solefade]I've already acknowledged they've been underperforming as of late but by no means from just a raw talent stand point are they worse than the former Cavs squads. You take LeBron off that team and they automatically drop to the lottery. There's still evidence of how shitty that squad was from the day he left until now.[/QUOTE]
And where the hell do you think this team is if you remove Durant? And I mean the team right now, without Westbrook, too. They're sure as hell not a playoff team. They might be one of the 5 worst teams in the league.
And a team having more raw talent doesn't mean they're better. And the only player that gives OKC the "raw talent" advantage is a 23 year old with a very raw offensive game who feeds off the one player on the team that's out for the rest of the year.
[QUOTE=KG215]And where the hell do you think this team is if you remove Durant? And I mean the team right now, without Westbrook, too. They're sure as hell not a playoff team. They might be one of the 5 worst teams in the league.
And a team having more raw talent doesn't mean they're better. And the only player that gives OKC the "raw talent" advantage is a 23 year old with a very raw offensive game who feeds off the one player on the team that's out for the rest of the year.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure with guys like Ibaka, Perk, Reg Jackson, K-Mart, Thabo, Collison, they might be a borderline 8th seed in the west rather than a definite lottery team like the Cavs after LeBron left.
I'm not sure why you're reaching so far to try to prove that this Thunder team is just as bad or worse than those Cavs squad because to me, it's quite obvious just like how KD isn't as good as LeBron in the sense that he doesn't impact every single play defense or offense.
[QUOTE=chosen_wun]It showed the following year when he left ... these guys collectively became the worst team in the league.
Inrefutable proof that no amount of smiley faces can deny.[/QUOTE]
No, it's not "inrefutable" proof, because it wasn't the same team sans-LeBron in 2011. And inrefutable isn't a word.
Mo Williams got traded before the deadline; Antawn missed around 20 games; Shaq was gone; Delonte was gone; and Varejao missed like 50 games.
The only main playoff contributor from 2010 that played almost the whole season in 2011 was Anthony Parker was was in his mid-30's and I'm pretty sure that was his last season in the NBA.
[QUOTE=Solefade]Pretty sure with guys like Ibaka, Perk, Reg Jackson, K-Mart, Thabo, Collison, they might be a borderline 8th seed in the west rather than a definite lottery team like the Cavs after LeBron left.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, we're done here. You've clearly proven you're clueless.
Ibaka, Perk, Reggie Jackson, Kevin Martin, Thabo, and Collison would be a "borderline 8th seed in the West" where it would take 45+ wins most years to get the 8-seed. :roll: :roll:
[QUOTE=chosen_wun]It showed the following year when he left ... these guys collectively became the worst team in the league.
Inrefutable proof that no amount of smiley faces can deny.[/QUOTE]
This is disingenuous. That Cavs team that lost 26 straight games had starting line ups during the year of Alonzo Gee/JJ Hickson/Anthony Parker/Ramon Sessions/Samardo Samuels and Christian Eyenga/JJ Hickson/Anthony Parker/Antawn Jamison/Manny Harris and Byron Scott as the head coach. How is that any reflection of LeBron James or the 2010 Cavs? Please explain this rationale.
The team the following year was riddled with injuries. Not to mention the loss of Shaq and Big Z, they would been a significant improvement over the undersized front court they had. They didn't even have a legitimate replacement for LeBron. And aside from losing LeBron the team was without the previous year starting center, backup center and combo-guard playmaker off the bench.
Even the 2011 Cavs when healthy had a ready made team for a superstar. Shooters, and hustlers, all that was missing was a player get their own shot or create their own offense. That was their problem. They basically assembled a team that was catered to LeBrons strengths and playing style or any superstar wing for that matter.
Also it's actually not uncommon that a team will struggle without their star player. In 1997 the Spurs were a lottery team without David Robinson. Look at the Magic without Dwight Howard IMO. The problem isn't solely because of LeBron leaving. It's the team they built, they were pretty much a one man show on offense. Similar to the 2001 Sixers with Iverson. That doesn't mean they were playing with a bunch of bums, it was just the team they built around them. The Cavs plan was clear. Surround LeBron with defenders/rebounders, shooters and hustlers, guys that don't need the ball in their hands to be productive.
Not as good as Jeremy Lin though, right Chang? :lol
[QUOTE=KG215]Yeah, we're done here. You've clearly proven you're clueless.
Ibaka, Perk, Reggie Jackson, Kevin Martin, Thabo, and Collison would be a "borderline 8th seed in the West" where it would take 45+ wins most years to get the 8-seed. :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
Despite their respective conferences, the main point is this team is already better on paper than a Cavs "Mo Williams-led" squad. There's really no debate.
[QUOTE=Solefade]Despite their respective conferences, the main point is this team is already better on paper than a Cavs "Mo Williams-led" squad. There's really no debate.[/QUOTE]
There absolutely is a debate. I'm not saying OKC is clearly worse, but your insinuation that the Cavs sans-LeBron are easily, irrefutably, indisputably, worse than this Thunder team without Durant is hilarious. Either you're trolling or just incredibly stupid. There's really no other option.
[QUOTE=Ne 1]This is disingenuous. That Cavs team that lost 26 straight games had starting line ups during the year of Alonzo Gee/JJ Hickson/Anthony Parker/Ramon Sessions/Samardo Samuels and Christian Eyenga/JJ Hickson/Anthony Parker/Antawn Jamison/Manny Harris and Byron Scott as the head coach. How is that any reflection of LeBron James or the 2010 Cavs? Please explain this rationale.
The team the following year was riddled with injuries. Not to mention the loss of Shaq and Big Z, they would been a significant improvement over the undersized front court they had. They didn't even have a legitimate replacement for LeBron. And aside from losing LeBron the team was without the previous year starting center, backup center and combo-guard playmaker off the bench.
[B]Even the 2011 Cavs when healthy had a ready made team for a superstar. Shooters, and hustlers, all that was missing was a player get their own shot or create their own offense. That was their problem. They basically assembled a team that was catered to LeBrons strengths and playing style or any superstar wing for that matter. [/B]
Also it's actually not uncommon that a team will struggle without their star player. In 1997 the Spurs were a lottery team without David Robinson. Look at the Magic without Dwight Howard IMO. The problem isn't solely because of LeBron leaving. It's the team they built, they were pretty much a one man show on offense. Similar to the 2001 Sixers with Iverson. That doesn't mean they were playing with a bunch of bums, it was just the team they built around them. The Cavs plan was clear. Surround LeBron with defenders/rebounders, shooters and hustlers, guys that don't need the ball in their hands to be productive.[/QUOTE]
Lol LeBron is one of the easiest superstars to adapt to because of his unselfishness and great passing skills. I'm not sure what you're talking about.
So Kyrie who joined the team couldn't take them out of the lottery in 2011-12. What does that mean then?
Basically just providing a strawman arguments ok. Whether Jamison was active or not, the team was still terrible with and without him. They were trash with Williams in the line-up, even if he stayed pass the dead line they would have continued to be trash. Shaq and Big Z are not impact players anymore at that point, Hickson and Varaejo were their best big men regardless. Like c'mon now...
Williams
Parker
--------
Jamison
Andy
would have been a bottom feeder even if they played all 82 games together.