Patrick Beverley is NOT a good defender

[QUOTE=UK2K]Westbrook 6/17 5 TOs
Lillard 7/13 7 TOs
Hill 2/5 1 TO

Not including the Bulls game. That was an anomaly, they looked tired after the past two weeks and everyone played poorly.

But other than that, hes done pretty well against other pretty good point guards. Lillard was even complaining about him. You have guys complaining about you in SI, then you're doing something right.

Not saying hes the best defender, but he disrupts the other teams offense. Thats his only job. Disrupt the offense.[/QUOTE]
LOL at bringing up Lillard who owned his skinny ass till beverley flopped him out of the game.
why dont you do it like that.
Bev vs Lillard: 12 points vs 21 points before fouling out on a flop
Bev vs Westbrook: 2 points vs 24 points and Westbrook only had bad percentage because Failerley fouled him twice on 3 point attempts.
Houston fans just overrate the shit out of him because they follow their media like sheep

[QUOTE=KungFuJoe]Agreed...I think it's just a matter of time before someone retaliates against him.

He really seems to have embraced his role, though...but I guess he knows that it's his one ticket to a lasting career.

I just can't imagine any other team, besides the Rockets, that would START the guy. He seems PERFECT as the energy guy off the bench to spell the starting PG.[/QUOTE]

Which was my point that it seems that Daryl Morey purposely signed him specifically to do this. It looks obvious. He was known as the dirtiest player in Europe. There were many many better point guards in Europe than him.

The Rockets GREATLY overpaid for him. He does not even have basic point guard skills other than dribbling. I mean he can't even pass or play make.

Then he comes in to the team and immediately plays mid season and plays ever since then, even if he does not produce, he plays in a team where the GM is obsessed with all the production stats.

It looks like it could not be any more clear that Morey was hiring a thug and that Beverley seemingly knew that was what he was being hired for.

And to make it worse, he's not even being fined or suspended for all this stuff he's doing.

I am sure also that when the first serious injury happens it will just all be an accident no matter how it looks. And Morey and Beverley will never be held accountable for anything.

It's definite psychopathic behavior though.

[QUOTE=Marlo_Stanfield]this
what he did to westbrook the other night was shameful.
there you denied a guy of a possible finals appearance last playoffs and what do you do?? trying to go at him again after he called a timeout, the exact same thing that got him injured last year:wtf: :wtf: :biggums: :coleman:[/QUOTE]

That WAS a punk move, and I lost some respect for Beverley because of it.

Look...I know he wasn't TRYING to hurt Westbrook on that play...he kinda just grabbed him. But he was trying to say, "Hey...remember when I injured your knee?" as to remind him...and that is pretty damn low.

If it was me, I'd have walked up to Westbrook before the game and apologized, offered a hand, whatever. Not to be a *****, but c'mon...you TOOK AWAY the guy's playoffs and hope for a ring. That's some HUGE shit...show a little respect, you know? These guys are all playing the same game...the game they love.

But, I'm also not scraping by, hoping I don't get cut and trying to find a way to belong in the league.

If Lin was in the perfect place/time for Linsanity, Beverley was in the perfect place/time for Bevsanity (or whatever).

Beverley was going to start in front of Lin (ANYONE was going to) regardless of his reputation as a thug (which is something he really wasn't known for until this season). McHale just doesn't want Lin starting, period. If Tony Douglas was on the team, he'd be starting in front of Lin.

No other team in the NBA starts Beverley. None. And especially not a high ranked team like Houston. I doubt Morey wanted his 25 million dollar guy riding the bench so I imagine McHale and Morey had to compromise in SOME way.

[QUOTE=Marlo_Stanfield]LOL at bringing up Lillard who owned his skinny ass till beverley flopped him out of the game.
why dont you do it like that.
Bev vs Lillard: 12 points vs 21 points before fouling out on a flop
Bev vs Westbrook: 2 points vs 24 points and Westbrook only had bad percentage because Failerley fouled him twice on 3 point attempts.
Houston fans just overrate the shit out of him because they follow their media like sheep[/QUOTE]
The fact your comparing scoring totals with Lillard and Westbrook in a thread YOU created downplaying BeverD's defense tells me....
A) You lost the argument already
B) This isnt about BeverD's defense at all
C) Youre on a one man crusade to justify Lin to the world

Again, Lin is garbo. He'd be good for Milwaukee or the Jazz, but not on a team where you have two top 3 players at their position. BeverD has played ONE full season in the NBA so far. ONE.

I hope Lin gets traded just so I dont have to see you post anymore about him not getting PT over someone who meshes with the team better. Go to ClutchFans, there is a thread using statistical analysis that shows BeverD fits in better.

Go away.

[QUOTE=Euroleague]He was somehow always just injuring or almost injuring guys all the time in Europe on these "accident" plays and the SAME thing ever since he came to the NBA.

How many freaking times does this have to happen before fans stop pretending?

This guy is the dirtiest player in a LONG time. It's like he's trying to be remembered as the dirtiest player ever.

The point is, at some point, someone is going to get seriously hurt, and this psychopath isn't even going to care.

There is no place for guys like this in the NBA or any other league for that matter.[/QUOTE]


I agree with you except I truly believe he doesn't want to hurt people, it's just the way he plays that hurts people.

He has poor defensive instincts (watch his games) but excellent hustle and determination. He consistently plays harder on the defensive end than any other player I've seen, but it still doesn't make him a good defender. His constant effort on defense and aggressiveness I believe gets into some players heads, sometimes. I truly believe that this is also why he hurts people.

That play on Westbrook was uncalled for. If Westbrook didn't have his guard down, I don't think he would have been severely injured.

I don't think he belongs in the NBA because he's going to end up hurting a lot of players, but I think coaches just love his effort.

[QUOTE=Marlo_Stanfield]LOL at bringing up Lillard who owned his skinny ass till beverley flopped him out of the game.
why dont you do it like that.
Bev vs Lillard: 12 points vs 21 points before fouling out on a flop
Bev vs Westbrook: 2 points vs 24 points and[B] Westbrook only had bad percentage because Failerley fouled him twice on 3 point attempts.[B][/B][B][/B][/B]
Houston fans just overrate the shit out of him because they follow their media like sheep[/QUOTE]
I didnt even bother to read your post all the way cause I know youre a dumbass...

But missed FG's when getting fouled dont count as a missed FG.

So BeverD fouling him on three's had absolutely NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS SHOOTING %.

How old are you? Do you even know the rules of basketball?

[QUOTE=UK2K]The fact your comparing scoring totals with Lillard and Westbrook in a thread YOU created downplaying BeverD's defense tells me....
A) You lost the argument already
B) This isnt about BeverD's defense at all
C) Youre on a one man crusade to justify Lin to the world

Again, Lin is garbo. He'd be good for Milwaukee or the Jazz, but not on a team where you have two top 3 players at their position. BeverD has played ONE full season in the NBA so far. ONE.

I hope Lin gets traded just so I dont have to see you post anymore about him not getting PT over [B]someone who meshes with the team better.[/B] [B]Go to ClutchFans[/B], there is a thread using statistical analysis that shows BeverD fits in better.

Go away.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://cdn.niketalk.com/2/2f/350x700px-LL-2ff5111e_michael-jordan-laughing.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://media2.giphy.com/media/n8LOaQyDyiEhi/giphy.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=UK2K]I didnt even bother to read your post all the way cause I know youre a dumbass...

But missed FG's when getting fouled dont count as a missed FG.

So BeverD fouling him on three's had absolutely NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS SHOOTING %.

How old are you? Do you even know the rules of basketball?[/QUOTE]
he would have made both so he would have had a better FG percentage

[QUOTE=UK2K]Westbrook 6/17 5 TOs
Lillard 7/13 7 TOs
Hill 2/5 1 TO

Not including the Bulls game. That was an anomaly, they looked tired after the past two weeks and everyone played poorly.

But other than that, hes done pretty well against other pretty good point guards. Lillard was even complaining about him. You have guys complaining about you in SI, then you're doing something right.

Not saying hes the best defender, but he disrupts the other teams offense. Thats his only job. Disrupt the offense.[/QUOTE]

If you're job is to be a troll who is putting others in harms way...then you aren't a very good player. All the dude does is play hyper aggressive and troll people. He fouls a lot, gets beat of the dribble, and does his best to plant the thought that he might you in the back of everyone's mind.

[QUOTE=Jailblazers7]If you're job is to be a troll who is putting others in harms way...then you aren't a very good player. All the dude does is play hyper aggressive and troll people. He fouls a lot, gets beat of the dribble, and does his best to plant the thought that he might you in the back of everyone's mind.[/QUOTE]
he got repeatedly BURNED by Krick freaking Heinrich yesterday... i mean common u serious:wtf:

[QUOTE=Marlo_Stanfield]he would have made both so he would have had a better FG percentage[/QUOTE]
Would he? Would he have made both?

Hypothetically Bev should have shot 30 shots cause he would have made all of them too.

You dont even know the rules of basketball yet you are arguing against statistical proof that the Rockets offense and defense is better with BeverD playing more minutes...

What else ya got?

[QUOTE=UK2K]Would he? Would he have made both?

Hypothetically Bev should have shot 30 shots cause he would have made all of them too.

You dont even know the rules of basketball yet you are arguing against statistical proof that the Rockets offense and defense is better with BeverD playing more minutes...

What else ya got?[/QUOTE]
okay you are a troll.
how do i not know the rules of basketball.:biggums: :wtf:

QUOTE=Marlo_Stanfield]okay you are a troll.
how do i not know the rules of basketball.:biggums: :wtf:[/QUOTE]
You argued Westbrook FG% would have been higher had he not gotten fouled, not knowing missed FGs on fouls dont count as a missed FG in the box score.


He swiped the ball a career-high five times against the*Cleveland Cavaliers*on Feb. 1 and has had three or more steals in 11 of his 46 games this season. He’s had 12 steals, including two against the Thunder, over his past five games.*

BeverD is 4th in the league in steal/TO ratio. That's his job. Play defense. Take care of the ball. Thats what he does.

And you still have yet to defend the statistical argument for playing Bev over Lin. Argue the numbers. Tell me the rockets are better with him and show me the numbers.

[QUOTE=UK2K]QUOTE=Marlo_Stanfield]okay you are a troll.
how do i not know the rules of basketball.:biggums: :wtf:[/QUOTE]
You argued Westbrook FG% would have been higher had he not gotten fouled, not knowing missed FGs on fouls dont count as a missed FG in the box score.


He swiped the ball a career-high five times against the*Cleveland Cavaliers*on Feb. 1 and has had three or more steals in 11 of his 46 games this season. He

[QUOTE=Marlo_Stanfield]
Jeremy Lin showed he can completely shut down opposing PGs this season, did it even in multiple consecutive games.
[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://replygif.net/i/160.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Burgz V2][IMG]http://replygif.net/i/160.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
its true.
keep denying doe:applause: :applause:

[QUOTE=Marlo_Stanfield]You argued Westbrook FG% would have been higher had he not gotten fouled, not knowing missed FGs on fouls dont count as a missed FG in the box score.


He swiped the ball a career-high five times against the*Cleveland Cavaliers*on Feb. 1 and has had three or more steals in 11 of his 46 games this season. He

[QUOTE=UK2K]okay for a tard like you i will do it.
If Lin takes more than 11 shots(that usually happens when he starts) the Rockets are 16-2 (16-1 before last games no show by everyone)
when he plays more than 30 minutes( usually when he starts) Rockets are 17-6.
at one point of the season, not so far ago the Rockets where 10-10 when beverley plays more than 30 minutes.
those are all UNDISPUTABLE facts, not even talking about how he is B>Y FAR their best passer and the guy who showed greatest Chemistry with Dwight when he was allowed to play real PnR Pointguard.
What you say now doe:coleman:[/QUOTE]

[B]Lin takes more then 11 shots when were crushing teams by 30 which happens more and more frequently. [/B]

Look I'm not saying Bev is better, im saying hes better for THIS team.[B] Lin needs to go to Milwaukee[/B].[/QUOTE]
showing your retardation and CLEAR bias against Lin while ignoring the stats i posted who were consistent through the whole season.
only stat that got better was bevs win ratio when he plays more than 30 minutes during that last winning streak of the Rockets which was somewhat overrated if you consider everyone they beat was in a losing streak.
those stats i posted are a solid PROOF that he HAS TO start.
dont make me post his way better defensive rating than beverleys too:roll: :roll:
stay mad doe

I'm from Houston, and I love the Rockets to death but Mario Stanfield I'm not sure if your a rockets fan or just a really really big Jeremy Lin fan ..? Either way, you push out the same agenda in every thread I've seen you post in..I understand your frustration with McHale and Lins playing time but it's getting old already.

Anyways, on topic Beverley is a good defender, I got comcast and I've seen almost every rockets game for the past 5 years or so? He does tend to gamble but that's what makes you great is when you take risks. He's had multiple game changing defensive plays, which is why McHale loves him. McHale was a great defender in his day(multiple all defensive selections) , and he has Lin coming off the bench because he's better suited for it, he is basically Harden just not as good. You can't have 2 players like that on the starting lineup so you keep the better one in and have the other one play the role off the bench. Both great off the PnR, Lin a better defender, harden a better scorer, it works especially because of Lins chemistry with Asik and Cisco already off the bench.

[QUOTE=Marlo_Stanfield][B]Lin takes more then 11 shots when were crushing teams by 30 which happens more and more frequently. [/B]

Look I'm not saying Bev is better, im saying hes better for THIS team.[B] Lin needs to go to Milwaukee[/B].[/QUOTE]
showing your retardation and CLEAR bias against Lin while ignoring the stats i posted who were consistent through the whole season.
only stat that got better was bevs win ratio when he plays more than 30 minutes during that last winning streak of the Rockets which was somewhat overrated if you consider everyone they beat was in a losing streak.
those stats i posted are a solid PROOF that he HAS TO start.
dont make me post his way better defensive rating than beverleys too:roll: :roll:
stay mad doe[/QUOTE]
Lin's 108 DRtg vs Bev's 107?

Way better. Steals? Steals per 48? Steal/TO ratio? TO per 48?

You like stats. Post those too.

[QUOTE=ABfor3]I'm from Houston, and I love the Rockets to death but Mario Stanfield I'm not sure if your a rockets fan or just a really really big Jeremy Lin fan ..? Either way, you push out the same agenda in every thread I've seen you post in..I understand your frustration with McHale and Lins playing time but it's getting old already.

Anyways, on topic Beverley is a good defender, I got comcast and I've seen almost every rockets game for the past 5 years or so? He does tend to gamble but that's what makes you great is when you take risks. He's had multiple game changing defensive plays, which is why McHale loves him. McHale was a great defender in his day(multiple all defensive selections) , and he has Lin coming off the bench because he's better suited for it, he is basically Harden just not as good. You can't have 2 players like that on the starting lineup so you keep the better one in and have the other one play the role off the bench. Both great off the PnR, Lin a better defender, harden a better scorer, it works especially because of Lins chemistry with Asik and Cisco already off the bench.[/QUOTE]come on lin and Harden should start and BOTH do PnR with Howard no silly post ups. both are GREAt PnR guys.
Harden looks to score off it while Lin gets EVERYONE involved especially the big fella.
both Lin and Harden can spot up and play off the ball as well, harden is just not willing too even tho hes GREAT at spot up threes( would say his bigest strenght even).
Parsons shouldnt handle the ball, like at all. he should start playing defense again, rebound and play off the ball and cut and slash. hes insanely good at that and nearly unguardable while he SUCKS at playmaking.
then Dmo should start and space the floor as well as occasional post ups.
Houston would freaking dominate like that. they would have no weakness and would be unguardable.
you can still start beverley for D-Mo in some match ups.
Houstons offense is soo predicable with beverley out there and Harden and Parsons playmaking.
watch them get exposed in the playoffs.

[QUOTE=UK2K]showing your retardation and CLEAR bias against Lin while ignoring the stats i posted who were consistent through the whole season.
only stat that got better was bevs win ratio when he plays more than 30 minutes during that last winning streak of the Rockets which was somewhat overrated if you consider everyone they beat was in a losing streak.
those stats i posted are a solid PROOF that he HAS TO start.
dont make me post his way better defensive rating than beverleys too:roll: :roll:
stay mad doe[/QUOTE]
Lin's 108 DRtg vs Bev's 107?

Way better. Steals? Steals per 48? Steal/TO ratio? TO per 48?

You like stats. Post those too.[/QUOTE]
LOL at bringing up TO. everyone on Houston is allowed to turn it over but lin?? Beverley doesnt have many TO because he doesnt playmake.
Howard and Harden both have way higher TO than Lin. Parsons is close to as a SF.
Beverley gets more steals but not much more and Harden is one of the top guys in steals. i wouldnt call him a good defender:roll: :roll:
Lin is just better in everything than beverley. simple as that:coleman:

[QUOTE=ABfor3]I'm from Houston, and I love the Rockets to death but Mario Stanfield I'm not sure if your a rockets fan or just a really really big Jeremy Lin fan ..? Either way, you push out the same agenda in every thread I've seen you post in..I understand your frustration with McHale and Lins playing time but it's getting old already.

Anyways, on topic Beverley is a good defender, I got comcast and I've seen almost every rockets game for the past 5 years or so? He does tend to gamble but that's what makes you great is when you take risks. He's had multiple game changing defensive plays, which is why McHale loves him. McHale was a great defender in his day(multiple all defensive selections) , and he has Lin coming off the bench because he's better suited for it, he is basically Harden just not as good. You can't have 2 players like that on the starting lineup so you keep the better one in and have the other one play the role off the bench. Both great off the PnR, Lin a better defender, harden a better scorer, it works especially because of Lins chemistry with Asik and Cisco already off the bench.[/QUOTE]

Beverley is a good defender, but that's not why he starts over Lin. Beverley is not that much better (I think they are on par, defensively) than Lin on the defensive end to offset his lack of offensive production.

I still think McHale doesn't start Lin because of personal reasons (he DID cut him, after all) or because he doesn't like Lin's style of play (high risk/reward).

The whole thing about Lin leading the second unit is completely false. With all the minutes Harden gets, it's rare that Lin is out there when Harden isn't.

Last night, against the Bulls, the best unit was Lin/Garcia/DMo (and Casspi thrown in as well) and McHale only played that unit for a little bit in the 2nd. That was when they cut into the lead. McHale went back to the same crappy starting lineup to start the 2nd half and he left them in, pretty much the rest of the game until he threw in the towel with 8 minutes left in the 4th.

McHale is still a crappy coach and Houston's record is in SPITE of that.

[QUOTE=Marlo_Stanfield]Lin's 108 DRtg vs Bev's 107?

Way better. Steals? Steals per 48? Steal/TO ratio? TO per 48?

You like stats. Post those too.[/QUOTE]
LOL at bringing up TO. everyone on Houston is allowed to turn it over but lin?? Beverley doesnt have many TO because he doesnt playmake.
Howard and Harden both have way higher TO than Lin. Parsons is close to as a SF.
Beverley gets more steals but not much more and Harden is one of the top guys in steals. i wouldnt call him a good defender:roll: :roll:
Lin is just better in everything than beverley. simple as that:coleman:[/QUOTE]

take a look at defensive rapm if you are going the stats route...that certainly is a better metric than individual defensive rating.

Beverly has a plus 2.5 defensive rapm. Which is better than just about any other pg in the league. Better than Paul, better than Conley, better than George Hill, better than Westbrook, better than Wall, better than Chalmers...

[QUOTE=KungFuJoe]That WAS a punk move, and I lost some respect for Beverley because of it.

Look...I know he wasn't TRYING to hurt Westbrook on that play...he kinda just grabbed him. But he was trying to say, "Hey...remember when I injured your knee?" as to remind him...and that is pretty damn low.

If it was me, I'd have walked up to Westbrook before the game and apologized, offered a hand, whatever. Not to be a *****, but c'mon...you TOOK AWAY the guy's playoffs and hope for a ring. That's some HUGE shit...show a little respect, you know? These guys are all playing the same game...the game they love.

But, I'm also not scraping by, hoping I don't get cut and trying to find a way to belong in the league.[/QUOTE]
Agree with this post and most of what you posted in this thread. It was bad sportsmanship to do what he did that game considering that he injured Westbrook in the first place, not the the other way around. Gotta respect your opponent...

Overall, Beverley is a good role player to have on your team, good teammate, always gives his best effort. His defense is pretty good, but maybe a little overrated because he seems so active. He needs to play a bit more cerebral on defense as he still fouls too much.
Bev disrupts opponents offense though for sure and his hustle boosts his teammates. He's a very active defender compared to Lin, but for some matchups Lin does better with his size advantage. Lin is an underrated defender, he contests shots pretty damn well, even if he doesn't look as active as Beverley.

[url]http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1992331-is-patrick-beverley-the-houston-rockets-x-factor[/url]

Self explanatory.

watch ncaa big ten games to see good defense. pbev is bottom of the barrel

See Patrick Bev's journey from the NBA to the EL, then back to the NBA, and then to the Eurocup where he finally excelled, and then back to the NBA again.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Beverley-[/url]

Bev is capable of injuring any star on the opposing team from 1 to 5

[QUOTE=KungFuJoe]Beverley is a good defender, but that's not why he starts over Lin. Beverley is not that much better (I think they are on par, defensively) than Lin on the defensive end to offset his lack of offensive production.

I still think McHale doesn't start Lin because of personal reasons (he DID cut him, after all) or because he doesn't like Lin's style of play (high risk/reward).

The whole thing about Lin leading the second unit is completely false. With all the minutes Harden gets, it's rare that Lin is out there when Harden isn't.

Last night, against the Bulls, the best unit was Lin/Garcia/DMo (and Casspi thrown in as well) and McHale only played that unit for a little bit in the 2nd. That was when they cut into the lead. McHale went back to the same crappy starting lineup to start the 2nd half and he left them in, pretty much the rest of the game until he threw in the towel with 8 minutes left in the 4th.

McHale is still a crappy coach and Houston's record is in SPITE of that.[/QUOTE]
Personal reasons? You know if Lin had personal problems with McHale he wouldn't have came back to Houston especially after all the success he's had in NY. Lin got cut because he wasn't better than Dragic and Lowry.

[QUOTE=Dr.J4ever][url]http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1992331-is-patrick-beverley-the-houston-rockets-x-factor[/url]

Self explanatory.[/QUOTE]
Great article.

One thing it Pointe out was Bev has been shooting 40% from deep in the past two months. Thats huge, because the Rockets like shooters as oh shit valves.

[QUOTE=STATUTORY]Bev is capable of injuring any star on the opposing team from 1 to 5[/QUOTE]
:roll: He's injured 1 player his whole career. People act like he injured 10 guys

[QUOTE=UK2K]Great article.

One thing it Pointe out was Bev has been shooting 40% from deep in the past two months. Thats huge, because the Rockets like shooters as oh shit valves.[/QUOTE]

It's a horrible article.

Beverley is built for the playoffs? LOL he's played one series his entire ****ing career! :roll:

All I know is when Lin comes in the game against Westbrook and CP3, they seem to have easier time scoring

[QUOTE=Smook A.]:roll: He's injured 1 player his whole career. People act like he injured 10 guys[/QUOTE]

You might be right he only injured one player, it's the guys attitude that makes people look down on him. I mean WTF was his deal going for Westbrook's knee after the whistle again? That **** wasn't funny... not to mention he's gets way up on people to the point they can't land safely after a jumpshot. I've seen him creep up on Curry and (seemingly) stick his feet out underneath. Not cool.

[QUOTE=JohnMax]All I know is when Lin comes in the game against Westbrook and CP3, they seem to have easier time scoring[/QUOTE]
yeah thats why Westbrook was held to 0-5 against Lin and 6-9 on Beverley+ 2 fouls on threepoint attempts:roll: :roll:

that dudes garbage

[QUOTE=AnaheimLakers24]that dudes garbage[/QUOTE]
:applause: :applause:

A lot of people saying Beverley is a dirty player.

Show me. I want evidence. I'll wait.