Charles Barkley says the NBA lies about player heights, so does DraftExpress:

[QUOTE=NumberSix]There's no such thing. It's not like there is a universal sole thickness for shoes. Every model of shoe is different. If I remember correctly, a pair of Air jordan IV's have soles that are about 1.75 inches thick. I'm a little over 6'3.5 barefoot, but in a pair of sneakers with thick soles like that, I'm well over 6'5.[/QUOTE]

Like I said, they don't list accurate shoe heights.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Euroleague stop being so butthurt, it's sad. I make a thread that flat out calls the NBA liars about listing heights which you should be thrilled about, yet your clearly so mad at my Anthony Parker statue poster
that you've felt it is necessary to try and disparage my thread about the independent-of-the-NBA draft entity that measures and archives detailed player measurements down to the precise decimal :facepalm

Only the Draftexpress.com draft data entries that were acquired 2nd hand (and therefore can not be guaranteed to be accurate) are questionable and all of those submissions are [I]fully acknowledged by the Draft Express organization[/I]. The explanation to that is actually in the original post I made if you'd have actually cared to read it. I'll spell it out for you, this is their 2nd hand data entries:

*International player heights, which they assume are mostly true for some players but as with everything, they predict there are exceptions - basically what they are saying is "we didn't put the tape up to them, someone else did so take it with a grain of salt".

*Player heights that pre-date ~ the past 10 years or so that the D/E has been recording + entering the data. You'll notice almost none of the vintage player heights are accurate to the decimal. This is because that data was not taken by the D/E.


Example? Shaq on draftexpress is listed 7'1 303

In truth he was 7'0.88 in 1992 - to be precise. If you ask me, that should be the number they use but they can't change it until somebody submits the original source which I am actually apt to do at some point. I've collected a lot of player measurements and identified some of those vintage draft data innacuracies. But players from the past decade that D/E actually put the tape too themselves? :facepalm They actually measured those guys, it isn't second hand. Go fap to some AP highlights and stop trying to discredit the thread with your unsubstantiated nonsense.[/QUOTE]

Then they need to say at the player's profile pages that the measurements might not be accurate and official. But the way they do it it just makes it seem official.

I mean damn, they have Romain Sato listed at 6-2 and just make it seem like it is official. Anyone that has ever seen Romain Sato knows there is no way in hell that he is only 6-2.

The heights for guys like Vougioukas, Sato, and Hines are flat out wrong, yet they claim them to be official, as measured by the "NBA officially". So draftexpress.com also is questionable and cannot be trusted either.

Holy shit their jaws look like they expanded a few inches since they got into the league. They look like goddam chipmunks.

[quote=Lebron23]LeBron looks 4.25" taller than Wade.

[URL="http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/dwyane-wade-and-lebron-james-of-the-miami-heat-poses-for-news-photo/138100882?esource=linkconn&aid=39902&asid=94532"]http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/dwyane-wade-and-lebron-james-of-the-miami-heat-poses-for-news-photo/138100882?esource=linkconn&aid=39902&asid=94532[/URL]

[URL="http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/dwyane-wade-and-lebron-james-of-the-miami-heat-poses-for-news-photo/138100881?esource=linkconn&aid=39902&asid=94532"]http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/dwyane-wade-and-lebron-james-of-the-miami-heat-poses-for-news-photo/138100881?esource=linkconn&aid=39902&asid=94532[/URL]

[URL="http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/dwyane-wade-and-lebron-james-of-the-miami-heat-poses-for-news-photo/138100888?esource=linkconn&aid=39902&asid=94532"]http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/dwyane-wade-and-lebron-james-of-the-miami-heat-poses-for-news-photo/138100888?esource=linkconn&aid=39902&asid=94532[/URL][/quote]

[QUOTE=kumquat]Holy shit their jaws look like they expanded a few inches since they got into the league. They look like goddam chipmunks.[/QUOTE]

oh no.

surely we are not talking about steroids and the recent jaws-ish-ness of D-WYANE WADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[img]http://www.cryosites.com/shared/img/a/alvin_9gspb.jpeg[/img]


Oh na brah that can't be steroidal growth brah that's just da natral progression of da evolution of NBA athe le tes brah

Well... Wikipedia has started adding a note to players listed height in their info box:

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_Bryant"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_Bryant[/URL]

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Barkley"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Barkley[/URL]

Guess it's the start of something....

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]
Example? Shaq on draftexpress is listed 7'1 303

In truth he was 7'0.88 in 1992 - to be precise. If you ask me, that should be the number they use but they can't change it until somebody submits the original source which I am actually apt to do at some point. I've collected a lot of player measurements and identified some of those vintage draft data innacuracies. But players from the past decade that D/E actually put the tape too themselves? :facepalm They actually measured those guys, it isn't second hand. Go fap to some AP highlights and stop trying to discredit the thread with your unsubstantiated nonsense.[/QUOTE]

I don't think they list as specific as 7'0.88 and rounded to the nearest quarter inch, that's 7'1". Getting more precise than a quarter inch is pretty pointless so that's not an inaccurate listing.

By the way, where exactly is your source for such a precise figure? I seriously doubt they listed players that precise.

[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]I don't think they list as specific as 7'0.88 and rounded to the nearest quarter inch, that's 7'1". Getting more precise than a quarter inch is pretty pointless so that's not an inaccurate listing.

By the way, where exactly is your source for such a precise figure? I seriously doubt they listed players that precise.[/QUOTE]

They definitely do go that precise when they use fractions of an inch - I'll try to dig up that Shaq article I got it from a newspaper clip from the time he was being drafted - he was measured twice within a matter of 2 weeks or something

First measurement 7-0 and 5/8ths @ 301lbs

Second measurement 7-0 and 7/8ths @ 303lbs

They simply rounded those figures up to 7-1 for print - and used his 303lb weigh in for his initial rookie listing / draft info.

5/8ths is 0.63
7/8ths is 0.88

hence he technically measured 7-0.88"

Jabbar is cited as 7-1 and 7/8ths in 1970's newspapers, the same way Wilt is cited 7-1 and 1/16th - etc. So when fractions of inches are given, that's how I get the precision up to the decimal point

[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]I don't think they list as specific as 7'0.88 and rounded to the nearest quarter inch, that's 7'1". Getting more precise than a quarter inch is pretty pointless so that's not an inaccurate listing.

By the way, where exactly is your source for such a precise figure? I seriously doubt they listed players that precise.[/QUOTE]
The dude has an an agenda to make it look like Wilt is close to as big as Shaq. Sorry OP, Wilt looks like a teenager next to the man Shaq.

Draftexpress definitely LIES about player's heights. They list some players way taller barefoot than they really are and list some way shorter barefoot than they really are.

That whole website is an absolute joke.

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]The dude has an an agenda to make it look like Wilt is close to as big as Shaq. Sorry OP, Wilt looks like a teenager next to the man Shaq.[/QUOTE]
I really wish Jlauber was here for you to harass but I seriously think you killed him already. Your not supposed to make old people with high blood pressure frustrated beyond belief. Mid-essay a couple of months back now, I fear that he croaked upon seeing one of your routine anti-Wilt threads :(

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]They definitely do go that precise when they use fractions of an inch - I'll try to dig up that Shaq article I got it from a newspaper clip from the time he was being drafted - he was measured twice within a matter of 2 weeks or something

First measurement 7-0 and 5/8ths @ 301lbs

Second measurement 7-0 and 7/8ths @ 303lbs

They simply rounded those figures up to 7-1 for print - and used his 303lb weigh in for his initial rookie listing / draft info.

5/8ths is 0.63
7/8ths is 0.88

hence he technically measured 7-0.88"

Jabbar is cited as 7-1 and 7/8ths in 1970's newspapers, the same way Wilt is cited 7-1 and 1/16th - etc. So when fractions of inches are given, that's how I get the precision up to the decimal point[/QUOTE]

Wilt claimed the 7'1 1/16" figure himself. I read it in a book about him that it use to puzzle people that he claimed such a precise figure. Some thought he was taller than that, by the way.

And the earlier precise figures, like the one you posted for Bill Russell don't seem like they come from the draft camp(did they even have one back then?) Seems like the players themselves claim them. You sure Shaq didn't claim it? Because again whenever I see the draft camp results, seems like they just measure to the closest quarter inch so it'd be bizarre to me if they listed more precise.

I couldn't find anything in an archive search for '92 either.

[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Wilt claimed the 7'1 1/16" figure himself. I read it in a book about him that it use to puzzle people that he claimed such a precise figure. Some thought he was taller than that, by the way.

And the earlier precise figures, like the one you posted for Bill Russell don't seem like they come from the draft camp(did they even have one back then?) Seems like the players themselves claim them. You sure Shaq didn't claim it? Because again whenever I see the draft camp results, seems like they just measure to the closest quarter inch so it'd be bizarre to me if they listed more precise.

I couldn't find anything in an archive search for '92 either.[/QUOTE]
He may have said it himself but so did his doctor - who claims they came up with it through a special measuring device or w/e they built for Wilt in the late 50's. Again, I will find these figures and the source articles. They don't just come from "books" and they aren't lies out of Wilt's mouth etc. I know the routine, nobody likes to believe anything if Wilt said it. Therefore I never use info that started straight from Wilt's mouth.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]I really wish Jlauber was here for you to harass but I seriously think you killed him already. Your not supposed to make old people with high blood pressure frustrated beyond belief. Mid-essay a couple of months back now, I fear that he croaked upon seeing one of your routine anti-Wilt threads :([/QUOTE]
Jeff Lauber is alive. He made a post on a different forum about a week ago. I asked him what happened to his account but he hasn't replied. It is the big mystery on ISH as to what happened to his account. You can't even go to his profile page...

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]He may have said it himself but so did his doctor - who claims they came up with it through a special measuring device or w/e they built for Wilt in the late 50's. Again, I will find these figures and the source articles. They don't just come from "books" and they aren't lies out of Wilt's mouth etc. I know the routine, nobody likes to believe anything if Wilt said it. Therefore I never use info that started straight from Wilt's mouth.[/QUOTE]

I've read on numerous occasions that Wilt liked to claim that figure itself, but iirc, I read in a Wilt book that he was measured at that height on a device at Temple University in the 60's so I think I at least read one of the sources you did. Not a draft camp like where Shaq would get measured. I don't question the sources for Wilt, I've heard those numerous times, but like I said, I don't see anything like that for Shaq and have never seen the draft camp so precise.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]They definitely do go that precise when they use fractions of an inch - I'll try to dig up that Shaq article I got it from a newspaper clip from the time he was being drafted - he was measured twice within a matter of 2 weeks or something

First measurement 7-0 and 5/8ths @ 301lbs

Second measurement 7-0 and 7/8ths @ 303lbs

They simply rounded those figures up to 7-1 for print - and used his 303lb weigh in for his initial rookie listing / draft info.

5/8ths is 0.63
7/8ths is 0.88

hence he technically measured 7-0.88"

Jabbar is cited as 7-1 and 7/8ths in 1970's newspapers, the same way Wilt is cited 7-1 and 1/16th - etc. So when fractions of inches are given, that's how I get the precision up to the decimal point[/QUOTE]May I ask, once more, why you believe it would be necessary to list players so specifically? I admit maybe I misinterpreted what you're saying so I'm open to clarification. But it sounds like you're saying you believe Shaquille O'Neal should be officially referred to as being 7-0.88. Do you mean this is what it should say in programs, websites, tv shows, message boards, etc.? If so, why so precise?

I understand creating a relatively uniform measuring process (i.e. measuring everyone barefoot) for the sake of scouting and general information. But I still am unsure of the importance of requiring teams to list players down to eighths of an inch. I'm not sure what we'd do with that information. If someone tells me two players are both 6'4'', I say "Alright". And if someone tells me those same two players are actually 6'3'' and 6/8ths and 6'3'' and 7/8ths, respectively, I don't envision my response being any different. In fact, all I'd likely take from those listings is "6'3''", which wouldn't really hit me any differently than if they were called 6'4''.

I am in favor of there being officially scientific listings somewhere because, why not? It's always nice to have official readings somewhere. But I do not feel there's really anything important enough about heights (aside from message board arguments) that should require teams to only list the most specific height possible. To be completely honest, when going over a game program, it's a little easier to comprehend information when it's dealing with solid numbers (6'5'', 210 lbs) as opposed to the ultra precise (6'4'' and 7/8ths, 207 lbs), particularly when taking in numerous recordings at once and attempting to draw just the loosest of comparisons.

Also, I apologize in advance for presenting a somewhat dissenting view on two of your topics in one day. I do not mean anything malicious about it.