John Wall's "official" COMBINE NUMBERS are in

John Wall

Wall: ..... [B]No Step Vertical = 30"[/B]

Wall: ..... [B]Max Vertical = 39"[/B]

Wall: ..... [B]Sprint = 3.14[/B]



By comparison Derrick Rose

Rose: .... [B]No Step Vertical = 34.5"[/B]

Rose: .... [B]Max Vertical = 40"[/B] ......... (now 43/44)

Rose: ..... [B]Sprint = 3.05[/B]:eek: .......... Blazing fast!!!



Okay, can we now put the Wall to Rose comparisons to rest??? Wall is no Rose. And no, Wall is not the greatest athlete ever at the point guard position as some have [B]hyped[/B] him to be. Rose is. Rose beat Wall in all the measureables in which explosiveness and athleticism are typically measured. Rose jumps higher and runs faster. And, in fact, it is not even close.

Wall was hyped all year as being "sooooo fast!" Game in and game out, all we kept hearing about was how John Wall was possibly the fastest player ever at the point guard position. In the sprint, it wasn't even close. Not only would Rose beat Wall.... Rose would dust Wall!

Rose is a blurr:bowdown: And he has springs for legs.

Wall is a good athlete. But he is no Rose.


Still, Wall could end up being a great basketball player. But the debate who is the best athlete at the point guard position is now settled. And that title belongs to DRose baby. :pimp:

Pretty similar #'s
With the ball though, Wall is considerably faster then Rose.

I have a hard time beliveing your vertical increasing 9 inches from max to no step

Good point, the verticals obviously makes Rose the better player. Nothing else has to do with it and this should definitely quite the talks of Wall being better or as good.

So in a non-game environment, Rose jumped higher than Wall and sprinted faster. Therefore, Derek Rose is a better basketball player.

This makes perfect sense.

[IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CqDk4jAv_Y4/S_f9Vgi9MvI/AAAAAAAADX4/RboDr34TzJ0/s1600/JohnWall.jpg[/IMG]

I still can't believe that Sonny Weems posted a 2.96 in the sprint.


Lol@people saying Wall is CONSIDERABLY faster with the ball than Rose.


I saw Rose play in Utah his rookie season and he got a loose ball with the rest of the field a step or two behind him.

One dribble [long] dribble and you could tell no one had a shot at catching him.

Wall is fast too...I'm sick of people saying Rose is faster or Wall is faster or Harris, or Lawson because A. you can't tell by just eyeballing B. It doesn't matter that much in the grand scheme.

The OP is right though. Wall is a special athlete but not the best ever at the PG position like advertised.

The combination of his length and athleticism is a good sign for his career though....once his hops and speed diminish he can still fall back on his great length and skill with the ball.

[QUOTE=Derka]So in a non-game environment, Rose jumped higher than Wall and sprinted faster. Therefore, Derek Rose is a better basketball player.

This makes perfect sense.[/QUOTE]


Please read carefully.

The OP had nothing to do with who is a better player the OP has to do with the hype surrounding Wall's athleticism.

With that logic Jordan Farmar, with a 42inch vertical, is better than Rose.

/thread

[QUOTE=Foster5k]With that logic Jordan Farmar, with a 42inch vertical, is better than Rose.

/thread[/QUOTE]


No one said anything about being a better player man be serious.

Wall has the potential to be an all-time great...saying that he's not the best athlete ever at the PG position has nothing to do with his game and more to do with his hype.

Lets have a look at the best combine numbers since 2001:

No Step Vert:
Nick Young (2007) - 39.5 inches

Max Vert:
Kenny Gregory (2001) - 45.5 inches.

Sprint:
Cookie Belcher (2001) - 2.91 seconds

Agility Test:
Jamison Brewer (2001) - 9.65 seconds

Bench:
Jason Keep (2003) - 27 repetitions

Unless someone wants to argue that those 5 are superstars, perhaps we should look at something other than combine numbers to determine who's the best player ? :banghead:

And yes, there really was a player named Cookie Belcher (worst name ever ?).

[QUOTE=BigTicket]Lets have a look at the best combine numbers since 2001:

No Step Vert:
Nick Young (2007) - 39.5 inches

Max Vert:
Kenny Gregory (2001) - 45.5 inches.

Sprint:
Cookie Belcher (2001) - 2.91 seconds

Agility Test:
Jamison Brewer (2001) - 9.65 seconds

Bench:
Jason Keep (2003) - 27 repetitions

Unless someone wants to argue that those 5 are superstars, perhaps we should look at something other than combine numbers to determine who's the best player ? :banghead:

And yes, there really was a player named Cookie Belcher (worst name ever ?).[/QUOTE]


Yet another poster who cannot comprehend what they read.

[QUOTE=TheTruth11]John Wall

Wall: ..... [B]No Step Vertical = 30"[/B]

Wall: ..... [B]Max Vertical = 39"[/B]

Wall: ..... [B]Sprint = 3.14[/B]



By comparison Derrick Rose

Rose: .... [B]No Step Vertical = 34.5"[/B]

Rose: .... [B]Max Vertical = 40"[/B] ......... (now 43/44)

Rose: ..... [B]Sprint = 3.05[/B]:eek: .......... Blazing fast!!!



seriously, except for the no step vertical the numbers are pretty close. Wall has almost 2 inches on Rose and also a longer wingspan. Also sprint times aren't necessary relate to how fast one is on the court. Wall is fast with the ball period.

I would say those two would become comapred alot in the NBA.

Dwyane Wade recorded a quicker sprint time than John Wall, though there is no way in hell he's quicker than Wall with or without the ball.
He must have just had a bad run, or in all honesty, just doesn't want to go to the Wizards.

[QUOTE=plowking]Dwyane Wade recorded a quicker sprint time than John Wall, though there is no way in hell he's quicker than Wall with or without the ball.
He must have just had a bad run, or in all honesty, just doesn't want to go to the Wizards.[/QUOTE]


You can't really tel how fast someone is by sight. Some people run faster than they are given credit for particularly "long-striders"...they get under estimated compared to those "piston leg" runners.

H. Bolt doesn't look like he's [B][I]that[/I][/B] fast until you put a clock on the bottom of the screen and runner beside him.

Another thing, why are people saying that he had a "bad comdine." Did anyone watch it?

I mean he could have had one in all honesty I didn't catch it but from what I heard he was pleased with his performance [yet ppl are saying he had a bad no step/sprint showing--for him].

We could say that Rose was fatigued [from playing more basketball than any player his age for three straight years and injured [tendinitis] or at least not at the top of his game.

I've converted. I reluctantly boarded the bandwagon.

However I'm not going to sweat the stats or the hype...I'm going to give the kid an honest chance/eval.

John wall has the edge in the physical measurements while Rose has a slight edge in the athletic drills (namely no step vertical, others were similar). Therefore i consider them pretty equivalent athletes.

Can't wait till Washington vs Chicago, rivalry for the future.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]Another thing, why are people saying that he had a "bad comdine." Did anyone watch it?

I mean he could have had one in all honesty I didn't catch it but from what I heard he was pleased with his performance [yet ppl are saying he had a bad no step/sprint showing--for him].

We could say that Rose was fatigued [from playing more basketball than any player his age for three straight years and injured [tendinitis] or at least not at the top of his game.

I've converted. I reluctantly boarded the bandwagon.

However I'm not going to sweat the stats or the hype...I'm going to give the kid an honest chance/eval.[/QUOTE]


I don't know if he had a "bad combine" or not, but his no-step vertical is somewhat artificially depressed by his horrendous technique in the drill IMO (as I outlined in Posterize'sDraft profile thread*, which btw, is an excellent read, and my favorite thread on these boards fwiw.) With better technique, he could have easily added multiple inches to his leap. His other numbers (39 max vert, 10.84 agility and 3.14 sprint) were all very solid to very good, and when you combine those athletic numbers with his physical attributes (his excellent height for the position, his extremely long arms and his solid frame that has plenty of room for growth (he's 196 currently), you have a physical specimen that few at his projected position can match (Rose is probably his only true equal, with Russell Westbrook slightly behind both.)

It's important to note that both Wall and Rose PLAY UP TO THEIR ATHLETIC NUMBERS (actually, they both probably play above their combine numbers.) These testing numbers should only AFFIRM what you see on tape. You should never give the testing results more weight than you do on court prowess (like the OP does.) To say that John Wall "has no bounce" is probably one of the dumber things I've read in my short time on these boards (I've been a reader for a few months; a poster for about a week.)


* [url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4416371&postcount=68[/url]


Also, this is another exchange that I had with the Truth11 that outlines the simple correction in technique that would have increased Wall's no step (and by extension, explains the disparity between his no step and his max vert.)

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4419840&postcount=6[/url]

[QUOTE=Go Getter]I still can't believe that Sonny Weems posted a 2.96 in the sprint.
[/QUOTE]

I know this is off topic and about a week old, but Weems had close to a 4.4 forty in high school. With his leaping ability, height, and speed, he could have probably made a good football player. He was a very good high school football player and had some offers to play in college. He's very quick and fast for someone who is 6'6".

Yeah Wall is slightly overrated as a prospect, people acting like he's the greatest PG of this generation or something.... just ridiculous.

Rose will be better than Wall and so far I've seen nothing from Wall to suggest that he can ever be a tier 1 PG.

[QUOTE=KG215]I know this is off topic and about a week old, but Weems had close to a 4.4 forty in high school. With his leaping ability, height, and speed, he could have probably made a good football player. He was a very good high school football player and had some offers to play in college. He's very quick and fast for someone who is 6'6".[/QUOTE]


We [the Bulls] should have kept him.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]We [the Bulls] should have kept him.[/QUOTE]

Maybe so, but Chicago needs a shooter at the 2 guard spot. Weems doesn't fit that mold. He's a freakish athlete who has developed into a very solid player, but at the same time I'm not sure he's ever going to develop into a starting SG on a contender. I think his ceiling is a reliable 6th or 7th man who's capable of coming in and locking down on defense for 3-5 minute stretches (ala Tony Allen) or being a scoring spark off the bench who can come in on any given night and give his team 15-20. If he continues to develop his shot and can become a 35-38 percent three point shooter then his stock will go way up. He's already developed a very good mid-range jumper.

[QUOTE=KG215]Maybe so, but Chicago needs a shooter at the 2 guard spot. Weems doesn't fit that mold. He's a freakish athlete who has developed into a very solid player, but at the same time I'm not sure he's ever going to develop into a starting SG on a contender. I think his ceiling is a reliable 6th or 7th man who's capable of coming in and locking down on defense for 3-5 minute stretches (ala Tony Allen) or being a scoring spark off the bench who can come in on any given night and give his team 15-20. If he continues to develop his shot and can become a 35-38 percent three point shooter then his stock will go way up. He's already developed a very good mid-range jumper.[/QUOTE]


If we get a legit 2 in FA or in the draft Kirk can be the backup PG...Weems would have been [could have been] a solid backup 2...I mean with Thibs on board looks like we are going the route of a defensive team and Weems would fit [maybe].

*Hopefully Kirk finds his stroke this summer*:bowdown:

Oh well....just sucks to see a kid that you drafted become a venerable player for another squad.

Go Getter + TheTruth11= Same person