which franchise is the 2nd worst since the Clippers will never be topped.
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which franchise is the 2nd worst since the Clippers will never be topped.
In b4 Knick haters.
Hornets. For not letting us have Gordon. :mad:
In terms of history, its Bobcats hands down but they have not really been in the league a long time. Wolves would probably be next, they have been around bout 25 years now so that's long enough for the argument.
Heat coz they have The Choker One..
San Diego clippers
[QUOTE=bagelred]In b4 Knick haters.[/QUOTE]
Two titles keeps them out of the running imo.
Every single thing OP posts is dogshit. It's amazing. You'd think at least one decent post would slip out by accident.
[QUOTE=SpecialQue]Every single thing OP posts is dogshit. It's amazing. You'd think at least one decent post would slip out by accident.[/QUOTE]
No one is forcing you to post, f.aggot
Kings
Knicks.. Being that bad for such a long time with the location and money they got is pretty impressive actually
other franchises have had less sucsess, but you couldnt expect much more from them
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]No one is forcing you to post, f.aggot[/QUOTE]
:coleman:
Orlando Magic :confusedshrug:
Wolves
[QUOTE=kurple]Knicks.. Being that bad for such a long time with the location and money they got is pretty impressive actually
other franchises have had less sucsess, but you couldnt expect much more from them[/QUOTE]
Location and money have nothing to do with winning.
Denver went 8 years without making the playoffs, and had never gotten past the second round before Carmelo Anthony showed up.
My vote goes to the Milwaukee Bucks though. Probably the most forgotten franchise in the NBA.
Had they never gotten Melo, the Nuggets would be the Clips.
[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Location and money have nothing to do with winning.
Denver went 8 years without making the playoffs, and had never gotten past the second round before Carmelo Anthony showed up.
My vote goes to the Milwaukee Bucks though. Probably the most forgotten franchise in the NBA.[/QUOTE]
Having a large market, ensures that you can spend as much as you want and incur the luxury tax and still be profitable. NY is a location, and many players would want the fame and accolades that go along with succeeding in NY. It's amazing the Knicks arent up there with the lakers.
Raptors when we drafted Bargani and im from Toronto
[QUOTE=MavsSuperFan]Having a large market, ensures that you can spend as much as you want and incur the luxury tax and still be profitable. NY is a location, and many players would want the fame and accolades that go along with succeeding in NY. It's amazing the Knicks arent up there with the lakers.[/QUOTE]
Kind of like the Clippers, right? Big market = winning franchise. :facepalm
The NBA's CBA is built specifically to prevent the large markets from flexing their wallets. Otherwise how would a team like the Spurs or Thunder ever have success?
[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Location and money have nothing to do with winning.
Denver went 8 years without making the playoffs, and had never gotten past the second round before Carmelo Anthony showed up.
My vote goes to the Milwaukee Bucks though. Probably the most forgotten franchise in the NBA.[/QUOTE]
Yeah Dolan being willing to spend whatever means nothing. Melo wanting to go play for NY instead of wanting to play for Milwaukee means nothing. Not like NY showed they were winners anytime recently. Good management is far more important than location, but different teams have different budgets and certain players will always prefer a certain location over others.
PHX couldn't do what the Lakers are doing right now. They wouldn't be paying Nash, Kobe, Howard, Pau with the new lux tax rules.
[QUOTE=NuggetsFan]Yeah Dolan being willing to spend whatever means nothing. Melo wanting to go play for NY instead of wanting to play for Milwaukee means nothing. Not like NY showed they were winners anytime recently. Good management is far more important than location, but different teams have different budgets and certain players will always prefer a certain location over others.
PHX couldn't do what the Lakers are doing right now. They wouldn't be paying Nash, Kobe, Howard, Pau with the new lux tax rules.[/QUOTE]
Did the Rockets not just sign Jeremy Lin away from the Knicks, and did the Knicks decide not to match because of a poison pill payment?
What happened to "spend whatever"?
Phoenix couldn't do what the Lakers are doing, but Portland could. Is Portland big?
[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Kind of like the Clippers, right? Big market = winning franchise. :facepalm
The NBA's CBA is built specifically to prevent the large markets from flexing their wallets. Otherwise how would a team like the Spurs or Thunder ever have success?[/QUOTE]
Dude it's pretty simple. Why was Melo asking for a trade to NY and not Indiana? Why was Howard asking to go to L.A or Brooklyn instead of Denver or Milwaukee?
Certain players will always prefer to play in the bigger, more popular markets than the smaller ones. Forget living in New York instead of Minny, but they simply make more money off endorsements. Won't happen 10\10 times but it's still an advantage.
[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Did the Rockets not just sign Jeremy Lin away from the Knicks, and did the Knicks decide not to match because of a poison pill payment?
What happened to "spend whatever"?[/QUOTE]
Clearly you just started watching the New York Knicks. Probably didn't match Lin because they've seen what happens when you just throw money at unproven players or risky guy's. That's good management, which I've already said is waaaaay more important than market.
Kidding yourself if the move was 100% money. NY will go into lux tax way before a team like PHX will. They won't sell their draft picks off or not re-sign players like other owners have shown.
I don't get why people get so upset over this. It's not a huge deal, but there's an advantage. You can overcome it with a good FO like S.A and OKC have done, mainly with hitting on your picks and getting those big time players. Minnesota won't attract players like New York, that's a fact. If both teams are run to perfection .. a guy like Carmelo wants NY 10\10 over Minny.
[QUOTE=NuggetsFan]Dude it's pretty simple. Why was Melo asking for a trade to NY and not Indiana? Why was Howard asking to go to L.A or Brooklyn instead of Denver or Milwaukee?
Certain players will always prefer to play in the bigger, more popular markets than the smaller ones. Forget living in New York instead of Minny, but they simply make more money off endorsements. Won't happen 10\10 times but it's still an advantage.[/QUOTE]
Anecdotal evidence does not prove that all stars want to play in big markets.
For every Melo or Dwight, there is a Duncan or Durant.
[QUOTE=NuggetsFan]Clearly you just started watching the New York Knicks. Probably didn't match Lin because they've seen what happens when you just throw money at unproven players or risky guy's. That's good management, which I've already said is waaaaay more important than market.
Kidding yourself if the move was 100% money. NY will go into lux tax way before a team like PHX will. They won't sell their draft picks off or not re-sign players like other owners have shown.
I don't get why people get so upset over this. It's not a huge deal, but there's an advantage. You can overcome it with a good FO like S.A and OKC have done, mainly with hitting on your picks and getting those big time players. Minnesota won't attract players like New York, that's a fact. If both teams are run to perfection .. a guy like Carmelo wants NY 10\10 over Minny.[/QUOTE]
Signing Lin would have made ZERO impact on the cap, and their ability to sign other players. The decision to not sign him was purely financial, and had to do with not wanting to pay $50 million in luxury tax on him. The Knicks are over the cap till 2014, and that is when his contract would have been through. Again, signing him would have no effect on any other players.
I'd like to think that most of the time athletes will stay on a team with smart management that at least tries to make them a contender. How often has a player walked away from a title contender just because they were in a small market?
[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Anecdotal evidence does not prove that all stars want to play in big markets.
For every Melo or Dwight, there is a Duncan or Durant.[/QUOTE]
Duncan or Durant haven't forced a trade tho? I don't get it. Some players will simply not do what Melo or Dwight did, not because of market. I'm not saying every single player wants to play in a big market. I've never heard of a player forcing his way to Minny tho.
Whatever. NY has no advantage. Having an owner who has showed that money isn't an option. Playing in one of the best cities in the entire world doesn't matter one bit. Making waaaay more money off endorsements\having your popularity skyrocket doesn't mean anything. Wasn't Nate Robinson in top 10 for jersey sales when he played for NY? That's f*cking crazy.
Not everything is an extreme example, and good FO is far more important than anything else and market size isn't a reason why a team will fail or succeed. Doesn't mean they don't get a little push for time to time. Denver Nuggets haven't had a superstar saying I only want to play for you guy's trade me there. NY has. That alone shows NY has had one advantage due to market.
All the money from jersey sales is evenly distributed to all 30 teams.
How many times has Grant Hill talked to the Knicks about signing, and then signed elsewhere? I can't even keep count anymore.
[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Signing Lin would have made ZERO impact on the cap, and their ability to sign other players. The decision to not sign him was purely financial, and had to do with not wanting to pay $50 million in luxury tax on him. The Knicks are over the cap till 2014, and that is when his contract would have been through. Again, signing him would have no effect on any other players.[/QUOTE]
Except for when your paying a guy a ridiculous contract for half a season worth of good play? I don't understand why NY didn't sign him for the reasons listed but James Dolan isn't afraid of opening up his check book. Maybe NY's FO just didn't think he was worth it and walked away from a contract for the first time in their life :confusedshrug:
Either way are you seriously trying to argue with me NY wouldn't pay the lux tax or that they wouldn't spend more money than a team like PHX? Seriously are you that f*cking stupid? .. New York Knicks, been saving money since '01 :oldlol:
[QUOTE=NuggetsFan]Duncan or Durant haven't forced a trade tho? I don't get it. Some players will simply not do what Melo or Dwight did, not because of market. I'm not saying every single player wants to play in a big market. I've never heard of a player forcing his way to Minny tho.
Whatever. NY has no advantage. Having an owner who has showed that money isn't an option. Playing in one of the best cities in the entire world doesn't matter one bit. Making waaaay more money off endorsements\having your popularity skyrocket doesn't mean anything. Wasn't Nate Robinson in top 10 for jersey sales when he played for NY? That's f*cking crazy.
Not everything is an extreme example, and good FO is far more important than anything else and market size isn't a reason why a team will fail or succeed. Doesn't mean they don't get a little push for time to time. Denver Nuggets haven't had a superstar saying I only want to play for you guy's trade me there. NY has. That alone shows NY has had one advantage due to market.[/QUOTE]
Melo ONLY wanted to go to the Knicks because they cleared so much space by tanking for TWO years, and had Amar'e Stoudemire.
He never made any mention of his desire to play in NY before any of that happened.
[QUOTE=Sarcastic]All the money from jersey sales is evenly distributed to all 30 teams.
How many times has Grant Hill talked to the Knicks about signing, and then signed elsewhere? I can't even keep count anymore.[/QUOTE]
Popularity. Having your jersey be in the top 10? Might not net you cash but sure as shit will get you more endorsement looks.
Once again. I'm not talking in extremes. Not every player will want to play for NY. That can't happen. There is advantages that SOMETIMES happen for the bigger markets in the league that others don't get.
I agree a good FO is probably 99% of it. There's that 1% that market def helps with tho. Atleast 0.1111% because I've witnessed it first hand with my favorite team, so it's atleast happened once so not sure what your arguing.
[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Melo ONLY wanted to go to the Knicks because they cleared so much space by tanking for TWO years, and had Amar'e Stoudemire.
He never made any mention of his desire to play in NY before any of that happened.[/QUOTE]
lol k. Melo wanted NY for their GREAT FO. I'm coming home, had nothing to do with it. His wife wanting to be in New York or L.A for her career had nothing to do with it.
If your not going to accept Melo had NY on his list of teams 100% because of there market than there's really no point in discussing it with you. It's a fact. Melo would probably admit that he wanted to play for New York, because it's New York.
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]which franchise is the 2nd worst since the Clippers will never be topped.[/QUOTE]
Clippers have redeemed themselves quite a bit and they have had good playoff teams......very rarely but what they have done lately takes them off this list.
Worst, I say Bobcats. If you took all the Bobcats top 10 draft picks in their prime and put them on 1 team you wouldn't win a game :facepalm :oldlol:
[QUOTE=NuggetsFan]lol k. Melo wanted NY for their GREAT FO. I'm coming home, had nothing to do with it. His wife wanting to be in New York or L.A for her career had nothing to do with it.
If your not going to accept Melo had NY on his list of teams 100% because of there market than there's really no point in discussing it with you. It's a fact. Melo would probably admit that he wanted to play for New York, because it's New York.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure his wife had something to do with it too.
Does every player have a wife from NY? If so, then I can see why you think NY would have an advantage.
[QUOTE=NuggetsFan]Popularity. Having your jersey be in the top 10? Might not net you cash but sure as shit will get you more endorsement looks.
Once again. I'm not talking in extremes. Not every player will want to play for NY. That can't happen. There is advantages that SOMETIMES happen for the bigger markets in the league that others don't get.
I agree a good FO is probably 99% of it. There's that 1% that market def helps with tho. Atleast 0.1111% because I've witnessed it first hand with my favorite team, so it's atleast happened once so not sure what your arguing.[/QUOTE]
Being a superstar gets you endorsements, not being in a big market. David Robinson and Tim Duncan have had national endorsements from San Antonio.
How many endorsements does JR Smith have? How many did Starks have? Or Charles Oakley?
[QUOTE=Sarcastic]I'm pretty sure his wife had something to do with it too.
Does every player have a wife from NY? If so, then I can see why you think NY would have an advantage.[/QUOTE]
First off I don't think NY has this massive advantage that you can't match. They don't. That's why they've been awful for so long. Just saying they have some, let's call it appeal that others don't. How much that helps? I have no idea. I know it's helped atleast once. I know NY doesn't sell draft picks like PHX. I know NY is far more willing to spend in the last 10 years than alot of others teams.
Really good FO and ping pong balls decide more than anything.
[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Being a superstar gets you endorsements, not being in a big market. David Robinson and Tim Duncan have had national endorsements from San Antonio.
How many endorsements does JR Smith have? How many did Starks have? Or Charles Oakley?[/QUOTE]
Nate Robinson shouldn't have been in the top 10 for jersey sales. That's a direct reflection of playing in NY.
I've seen you argue you this, alot of the links you posted I read and it's actually where I got some of the you make more money in NY :oldlol:
So there. Superstars make more money in NY! That's an advantage. I have no clue how big of one, or it even matters like I've been saying. NY can pitch that. Minnesota can't. Check Webster my friend, that's the definition of an advantage :oldlol:
[QUOTE=NuggetsFan]Nate Robinson shouldn't have been in the top 10 for jersey sales. That's a direct reflection of playing in NY.
I've seen you argue you this, alot of the links you posted I read and it's actually where I got some of the you make more money in NY :oldlol:
So there. Superstars make more money in NY! That's an advantage. I have no clue how big of one, or it even matters like I've been saying. NY can pitch that. Minnesota can't. Check Webster my friend, that's the definition of an advantage :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Whatever advantage there is, it's probably smaller than the advantage that states with no state tax have.
In the end, I think that market, or no state tax come far behind the chance to win, when a player is picking his future team.
Historically the Wolves have been horrendous.
[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Whatever advantage there is, it's probably smaller than the advantage that states with no state tax have.
In the end, I think that market, or no state tax come far behind the chance to win, when a player is picking his future team.[/QUOTE]
Maybe. I won't argue that. Market clearly doesn't even decide if a team succeeds or fails. FO, coaching etc. all do. I'm not naive enough to believe that every team plays by the same rules. Owners checkbook decides alot and when your team makes alot more money and has crazy TV contracts your obviously be willing to spend more unless your Donald Sterling, which he even started to do now.
PHX sold a few really good players. Cheap owner. Doesn't happen if Cuban owns the team or Dolan. No superstar forced his way to Minnesota. Even a team like Toronto, NBA players don't seem to like playing in Canada. Might not happen alot, it's happened atleast once or twice tho. Dwight\Melo being the examples of that. Extremely small size, but still there.