calling fouls

doesn't anyone else think it's especially bitchmade to call fouls in a pick up game?

I always thought it was on the defender. The most I'll do when someone mugs me is stare at them like... u know u mugged me.

Nothing ****s up a pick up game more than a guy who keeps calling fouls.

I played ball with some guy today who was calling hand checks and called me for a foul for bumping him when he was cutting. It's like ogod.

edit: oops wrong forum.

-Smak

well, sometimes the games get intense. im a skinny guy so dudes take advantage of that shit and hack every play. i dont usually call too many fouls, but if i have to i will. otherwise i might give a hard foul too for payback. sometimes i get heated even as the smallest guy on the court :lol

[QUOTE=imdaman99]well, sometimes the games get intense. im a skinny guy so dudes take advantage of that shit and hack every play. i dont usually call too many fouls, but [B]if i have to i will[/B]. otherwise i might give a hard foul too for payback. sometimes i get heated even as the smallest guy on the court :lol[/QUOTE]

The bolded part I agree with. Some guys just refuse to believe they fouled somebody, so you have to do it for yourself because they are giving themselves a major advantage. Especially when they do it repeatedly and never call themselves for a foul. This is true whether they are trying to get away with something or if they honestly don't know that what they are doing is a foul. It has to actually effect me though to call it myself (like a guy hits my elbow and I end up air balling it, yet he doesn't call it himself).

I've found over the years the pick-up fouling concept varies greatly from city to city, region to region, and country to country. Some people believe no fouls should ever be called, some believe the offensive player is responsible, and some believe only the defender can make the call. The concept of counting a basket taken while being fouled only further complicates matters at times.

Personally, I think fouls are necessary. As other posters have said, I think most players understand and believe pick-up games should be looser on the foul calls. However, I feel overly physical fouls that affect the game are always going to take place and will always need to be called to keep the game running at a fair and functional pace.

In my regions, fouls are fouls and the real ones never really draw issue when they're called, whether it's the offensive player making the call or the defensive. There's always shlubs who cross the line and call everything (or beat the hell out of offensive players with no intent of playing real defense) so there's always the potential for things to get weird, but for the most part, I've never had issue with folks calling fouls if they're clear, obvious, and affected their play.

Basically, I play through most random slaps and hacks and whatnot. But truly, if a defender decides their only way to stop me is to take me out or cause me to miss because they literally grabbed my arm away from the ball, I'm going to call a foul. The solution, if they're looking for a smoother running game, is not to break the rules and attempt to gain a significant advantage through an illegal play. Here, sometimes an apologetic defender will call his own foul, but more times than not, it's up to the offensive player.

I don't call fouls (I play with my back to the basket, 75% on offense. I play like a big.) UNLESS, the dude is just racking me obviously, in order to get that b.tich to stop.

OR

if its game point, and they fouled me and I miss. Shit is hilarious, I go the whole game not calling foul, when I'm clearly getting a LOT OF contact (I'm physical so, that helps) and at the end of the game, We are at game point and i miss? F.uck that. I'm calling it. lol

[QUOTE=MJ(Mean John)]I don't call fouls (I play with my back to the basket, 75% on offense. I play like a big.) UNLESS, the dude is just racking me obviously, in order to get that b.tich to stop.

OR

if its game point, and they fouled me and I miss. Shit is hilarious, I go the whole game not calling foul, when I'm clearly getting a LOT OF contact (I'm physical so, that helps) and at the end of the game, We are at game point and i miss? F.uck that. I'm calling it. lol[/QUOTE]

It's funny because that'd make it look like you were calling a weak foul at game point. haha.

I dunno, like I said. I still think calling fouls is wack. I think you're supposed to give the foul. I think, as I said in the NBA forum, the closer you get to the basket the more contact you should get.

I've never seen someone get upset by getting bumped when he was cutting or call a forearm on his side when he was driving. That's why I had to lay him out with a pick on a fast break. haha. It's like that's a foul young son.

I feel like I'm Dennis Rodman when I'm out there playing, even though I'm short. I'll check anyone. I am surprised I don't get in fights, but for the most part people accept my defense as solid and aggressive. Only 50 year old white guys get upset.

-Smak

When we play we call fouls all the time. Of course not as strict as in a real game. We don't call moving screens, handchecks or stuff like that, but if somebody goes to the basket or shoots a jumper and gets fouled he calls it or the defener calls it. We don't argue about the call either. Even if you think it wasn't a foul you just keep your mouth shut and play on. (unless somebody repeatedly makes bad calls) Like that we hardly ever have arguments on the court and all the games are peaceful. But as somebody mentioned, it probably depends on where you play. I guess for some this seems like a very "soft" way of playing streetball but personally I prefer this way because the game doesn't get out of control (revenge fouls and stuff like that)

[QUOTE=2swift4u]When we play we call fouls all the time. Of course not as strict as in a real game. We don't call moving screens, handchecks or stuff like that, but if somebody goes to the basket or shoots a jumper and gets fouled he calls it or the defener calls it. We don't argue about the call either. Even if you think it wasn't a foul you just keep your mouth shut and play on. (unless somebody repeatedly makes bad calls) Like that we hardly ever have arguments on the court and all the games are peaceful. But as somebody mentioned, it probably depends on where you play. I guess for some this seems like a very "soft" way of playing streetball but personally I prefer this way because the game doesn't get out of control (revenge fouls and stuff like that)[/QUOTE]

I'd say revenge fouls are pretty rare unless you are being a total dick. If you are going to foul someone, you have to do it with your body. If you come down on people and karate chop them in the face while they are shooting, then you deserve to get knocked out.

That's how I feel about pick up games, you can be physical... you can put your body on someone. That doesn't mean you can't say "and1" though haha.

-Smak

We always play offender (usually defensive player) calls the foul. If I'm getting hacked and its not being called I tend to play more aggressive and physical.

[QUOTE=2swift4u]When we play we call fouls all the time. Of course not as strict as in a real game. We don't call moving screens, handchecks or stuff like that, but if somebody goes to the basket or shoots a jumper and gets fouled he calls it or the defener calls it. We don't argue about the call either. Even if you think it wasn't a foul you just keep your mouth shut and play on. (unless somebody repeatedly makes bad calls) Like that we hardly ever have arguments on the court and all the games are peaceful. But as somebody mentioned, it probably depends on where you play. I guess for some this seems like a very "soft" way of playing streetball but personally I prefer this way because the game doesn't get out of control (revenge fouls and stuff like that)[/QUOTE]I can't say our court is [i]always[/i] peaceful but for the most part, it seems we play similar to you. There's definitely some times where a player makes a questionable call and there's definitely times where an opponent will object to that call, but we almost always respect it and check up. As you said, one of the few objections occurs when a player repeatedly makes just absolutely terrible calls to mask his own mistakes. At that point, he's likely getting called out. But those moments are quite rare.

I believe no matter how the foul system's set up, it'll be reliant upon honor and a certain degree of truth to succeed. Just as offensive players can take advantage by making bogus calls, if the onus to call fouls is on the defender, they could just as well take advantage by committing clear playground fouls and refusing to call them.

I think most of the time, arguing is likely going to pop up in a pickup game one way or another. Considering basketball players make a habit out of arguing with real, actual, certified referees, it's not terribly surprising to imagine they're not going to agree with a fellow player making the call at times.

[QUOTE=01amberfirewv]We always play offender (usually defensive player) calls the foul. If I'm getting hacked and its not being called I tend to play more aggressive and physical.[/QUOTE]Yep, I'd venture to say most pick-up ball will help any given player learn to play better through contact. Even the ticky-tack foul guys often have to find a way to assimilate themselves into the system and pull the reins on their quick trigger foul calling a little bit.

[QUOTE=Rake2204]
Yep, I'd venture to say most pick-up ball will help any given player learn to play better through contact. Even the ticky-tack foul guys often have to find a way to assimilate themselves into the system and pull the reins on their quick trigger foul calling a little bit.[/QUOTE]


It helps me for sure. I tend to play pretty soft despite probably being the strongest player on the court. It takes a few good hits before I start playing more aggressive.

I don't call unless, I get hacked hard, or smacked i the face. Pretty much I call it when you can hear the smack away from the play. I general I don't call too many, I sometimes even don't call anything, when it was an obvious foul just because I'm used to not calling anything.

And as a defender, I call fouls on myself if it's warranted. I'm honest on that stuff, not going to act like i didn't hit you in the face.

[QUOTE=Rake2204]I can't say our court is [i]always[/i] peaceful but for the most part, it seems we play similar to you. There's definitely some times where a player makes a questionable call and there's definitely times where an opponent will object to that call, but we almost always respect it and check up. As you said, one of the few objections occurs when a player repeatedly makes just absolutely terrible calls to mask his own mistakes. At that point, he's likely getting called out. But those moments are quite rare.

I believe no matter how the foul system's set up, it'll be reliant upon honor and a certain degree of truth to succeed. Just as offensive players can take advantage by making bogus calls, if the onus to call fouls is on the defender, they could just as well take advantage by committing clear playground fouls and refusing to call them.

I think most of the time, arguing is likely going to pop up in a pickup game one way or another. Considering basketball players make a habit out of arguing with real, actual, certified referees, it's not terribly surprising to imagine they're not going to agree with a fellow player making the call at times.

Yep, I'd venture to say most pick-up ball will help any given player learn to play better through contact. Even the ticky-tack foul guys often have to find a way to assimilate themselves into the system and pull the reins on their quick trigger foul calling a little bit.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I also think that calling fouls in some cases is important because some players do not even realize that they're constantly comitting fouls. So at times it's important to make them aware of the fact that they do something illegal. Same is true for travelling etc. Of course that only makes sense for players that play frequently. If I realize that somebody doesn't know much about basketball and doesn't play very often, then I let them get away with a travel or a foul. But if somebody acts like a serious baller then he should know when he does something wrong.

[QUOTE=2swift4u]I agree. I also think that calling fouls in some cases is important because some players do not even realize that they're constantly comitting fouls. So at times it's important to make them aware of the fact that they do something illegal. [B]Same is true for travelling etc[/B]. Of course that only makes sense for players that play frequently. If I realize that somebody doesn't know much about basketball and doesn't play very often, then I let them get away with a travel or a foul. But if somebody acts like a serious baller then he should know when he does something wrong.[/QUOTE]

Traveling is a whole other issue. I guess it depends on who's rules your following though but a lot of the younger guys who play with us like to catch and take two steps into their shot which is technique a walk because your supposed to be picking it up on the first step. There are also guys who carry the ball by rotating their hand under the ball while dribbling but it's pretty common and makes me look like a chump if I call it. I have a few "street" moves that I like to do but they are always called because they are somewhat flashy

the pick up runs i play at has a no and1 rule, people call foul way less if they think they are going to make the shot with that rule

in general if i get hit on the arm or hand and im not in ashooting motion, i dont call foul. usually only call it when its obvious

[QUOTE=Burgz V2]the pick up runs i play at has a no and1 rule, people call foul way less if they think they are going to make the shot with that rule

in general if i get hit on the arm or hand and im not in ashooting motion, i dont call foul. usually only call it when its obvious[/QUOTE]I've played in areas that had that rule too and I've never personally been a fan. I figure if fouls are going to be part of a pick-up game, then so should And1's. Without the And1, calling fouls just becomes one big game of chance. It's almost like, why would I ever call a foul while I'm shooting if it's just going to nullify anything I might be able to pull off through the contact? And if I don't ever call fouls, why wouldn't the defense just hammer away?

I suppose my biggest issue with not having And1's is the lack of reward for an offensive player in comparison to a lack of reason for the defense to [i]not[/i] blast an offensive player anytime they step into the paint. There's been times where I've slashed to the rack, been absolutely pummeled, and still somehow managed to finish the shot, only I called a foul mid-shot because... well... I call fouls when they happen... and thus the basket I've rightfully earned is wiped off the board.

And sure, the solution to such a dilemma always seems to be, "Well then don't call a foul." And again, in that case, the game often eventually degenerates into one of us driving, taking a hit (a clear foul, even in streetball), then some people stopping because they're assuming a foul's going to be called, but it's not, but then some people are still playing while some aren't, and people get confused, then we check the ball up anyway.

I think like any other part of the playground fouling system, And1's work best when players are honorable. If someone's just calling fouls all the time, whether we have And1's or not, it's going to be a problem. But if someone is just out there playing ball and they drive against me, and I clearly foul them, they call it, and they [i]still[/i] finish? I give them my respect, I count the bucket, and we head the other way. It just seems counter-intuitive to punish a player for calling a foul when he feels it and is still able to finish regardless. Players should be rewarded for such plays in my opinion.

[QUOTE=Burgz V2]the pick up runs i play at has a no and1 rule, people call foul way less if they think they are going to make the shot with that rule

in general if i get hit on the arm or hand and im not in ashooting motion, i dont call foul. usually only call it when its obvious[/QUOTE]

We play call your own foul and there are times guys are too quick to call the foul. If I get hit on the arm during a shot and miss then call it but if you bump me when I'm dribbling around you for a layup the foul didn't change the outcome of the play

At my "homecourt" we play offense calls and usually it's that way on every other court I played so far. When some defender does some platant foul they usually call it, too.
I usually only call fouls that really alter my shot, like hitting my shooting arm on a jumper, or anything that has no business in any kind of basketball like shoving from the back.

If some guy calls too much fouls, that barely are fouls, I start to call every "official" foul to the point the guy gets annoyed by it.

We play And1, but only if defense is up. Meaning if you drive to the rim get hit on your 2 steps call foul and the guy doing the help stops his defense it's no and1. Never had problems with that.