Originally Posted by kshutts1
I guess I just never bought into the whole... "Guy A with great stats was hugely important whereas Guy B was not". What's to say that Peyton (last year) didn't have a better team around him than Brees? And that if you took Peyton off the team, they would win 3-5 games, whereas if Brees was gone, the Saints go 0-16? It's so subjective...
IMO, any QB that puts up the numbers either of those guys has/is putting up is ridiculously valuable. You can quote records all you want, but keep in mind it's a team game, and you're rewarding a player an individual award for his team's accomplishments.
KG on the TWolves was a perfect example... you really mean to tell me that Duncan meant more to his team than KG? Garnett led his team in ppg, rpg, apg, spg, bpg.... sounds like he was more valuable than Duncan. Did the great stats translate into as many wins? No, because the team around him was poor... but his value was up there with anyone's.
Edit -- To further enhance my argument, last season the Saints were a mediocre-to-good team, and Brees got consideration, but never really stood a chance of winning MVP. This year, when his playmakers are healthy, and his defense is stepping it up big time, the TEAM is having more success, and suddenly he's a contender for MVP, if not the favorite.
I would also like to cite Pau Gasol. Post-Shaq Kobe Bryant kept the Lakers relevant, but never a title contender, as the players around him just weren't that good. Suddenly he gets an All-Star, and Kobe is the MVP? I won't argue with Kobe getting MVP, even though I thought Wade deserved it most last year, but that's my argument in a nutshell. Team accomplishments are weighted too heavily when it comes to player awards (ALL player awards, except strictly defensive ones), without regard to the quality of the teammates.
Manning won the MVP last year because he literally carried the Colts on his back to a 12-4 record. The running game? Weak. The Colts won ugly but it was at the hands of Manning, arm rather that did it. When you break down the Colts season and look for impact players. Who had the bigger impact in these wins? It'll point to Manning which is why he won vs Drew Brees. You can say defense, special teams and go that route with the argument. By then you are just making an argument to eliminate MVP since its a "team" game so how can 1 man be more valuable if not to thier team but in the league.
Drew Brees numbers were great but how he arrived to getting those numbers could be in question. And by examining the season, the offense the Saints in 2008 you conclude great production but he really wasnt as valuable as Manning was to his team. This season you can say whats the difference? That the Saints defense is stopping teams instead of keeping the offense on the field to rack up stats? Yeah and the fact Drew Brees has delivered in big games both at home but more importantly on the road.
There is a criteria for MVP, OPOY, DPOY. MVP can be tricky, but OPOY is pretty much cut and dry as far as how one wins it.
The team arguments you present isnt a bad one. It in fact it is what leads us to arguing who is more valuable than others in nba/nfl.
Like Wade didnt win MVP last season yet if Miami "team"
were to improve the team lets say and he had a similar season he would probably win it.