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Old 07-20-2012, 05:23 AM   #142
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Default Re: Barkley: I'm better than Malone

Originally Posted by Shep
you could probably score 23ppg on a team in which was playing in its first ever season.

Tripucka also averaged 20 ppg on a 46-36 Piston team right before coming to Utah.

stockton easily dominated more games than barkley, and at a more consistent rate. give stockton moses malone, erving, hawkins, majerle, manning, olajuwon, drexler, and pippen and i'm sure he wins multiple championships.

Stockton rarely dominated games, but you have a history of overrating point guards, especially high assist guys such as Rondo.

Stockton did a great job running the offense, was a pesky defender, and would score here or there, but he almost always failed to step up, assert himself offensively and take over a game with scoring when Utah needed it.

And you're talking about help with Stockton? You're listing players who were either past their primes when they were with Barkley, or Barkley was not in his prime(or remotely close in some cases). Stockton on the otherhand played in his prime with Karl Malone who was one of the best players in the league for Stockton's entire prime, and Eaton, Jeff Malone, Thurl Bailey and Jeff Hornacek in or near Stockton's own prime while those players were around their primes.

emtpy stats on the second fastest paced team in the league, meanwhile cleveland had the third slowest pace in the league.

Drexler was the better scorer, shooter, rebounder and passer, that makes it obvious that he was better than Ron Harper.

first of all price wasn't even in the cavs top 2 best players of the regular season

at Price not being a top 2 player on the team, and yeah, Jordan was great, but the Bulls were still largely a 1 man team, the Cavs on the otherhand had at least 4 all-star caliber players.

terry porter could get to the line at will and love mixing it up with the big boys inside. he also had a great post up game and was awesome in transition too on top of being a fantastic defender either on the perimeter or in transition.

Porter is underrated, but his impact was primarily as a scoring and shooting point guard. Price's creativity, ability to split traps and his pure shooting ability make him more than comparable in that regard, though I'd say Porter was more likely to go off for big scoring nights. With Price being the better shooter, ball-handler and passer as well as a comparable scorer, I just can't say Porter was a better player.

price was one of my favourite players, and this was probably his peak season, but he did get outplayed by brad daugherty after being the cavs best player in the regular season. the regular season has porter over price by the smallest of margins, but the playoffs make it clear who was the better player between the two after porter helps the blazers into the nba finals. porter had that massive game 7 to close out david robinson and the san antonio spurs with 36 points on 9/18fg, 4/9 from downtown, and 14/16 from the free throw line, along with 4 rebounds 9 assists and 2 steals.

Porter did have a knack for raising his game in the playoffs, and he was often the Blazer taking the big shot. He did step up more than Clyde through the first 3 rounds, but while the Blazers were more of a stacked team, they were Clyde's team. Team success between a team's best and second best player isn't a fair comparison, imo. Great playoff run or not, I've seen both play, and Price's skill set just made him the better player.

so if hawkins won finals mvp over barkley had they made the finals...he won the finals, who cares?

I didn't care when Duncan wasn't voted Finals MVP in '07 and KG wasn't in '08 among several other examples.

yeh he played well in those playoffs. good enough for 9th best in the league.

3rd best behind Michael and Magic.

yeh kareem ranks higher all-time. he is top 2.

Well, it appears we have the same top 2 at least.

and 1982 was magic's second best year in the nba, ofcourse it is in his prime.

His top 5 years are easy to put in order. '87, '90, '89, '88 and '91.

Players are rarely in their prime at 22 years old, and especially in just their 3rd season, and Magic definitely wasn't one of them considering how much he added to his game later, and how much more his impact increased with added responsibility.

it means you've got great anticipation. and i lol at they had to "hide" him defensively. he was outstanding at forcing turnovers and was an above average defender overall.

They had to hide him because he couldn't guard quick players and he'd get burned by good shooters.

Originally Posted by Shep
kareem was a nice player, top 2 in the league infact..but magic was just plain better.on the previous season alone, his numbers took a significant nose dive his free throw percent dropped from 77 to 71, he only managed to get to the free throw line only 5.8 times per game, points were down 26.2 to 23.9, he recorded single digits in rebounds per game for the first time in his career and halved what he averaged just 6 years earlier 10.3 to 8.7, assists went down 3.4 to 3, and blocks went down 2.9 to 2.7. in all, it was obvious that kareem could not produce at the level he did in the 70's and 1980

Kareem may have been top 2 behind Moses.

He did decline a bit in '82, there was the ankle injury that kept him out 6 games, Pat Riley's short-lived experiment to have him focus on defense/rebounding and score less, and a midseason slump that had some wondering if he was done. But he finished the season strong, here's what Pat Riley said after Kareem had 41 points, 19 rebounds, 3 assists and 5 blocks on 17/27 shooting including the free throws to send the game into OT, 4 of the 6 Laker points in the 1st OT and 5 of the 11 Laker points in the 2nd OT.

Originally Posted by Pat Riley
"Kareem, the guy never left, he's never going anywhere," said Los Angeles coach Pat Riley. "It was a difficult game Thursday night. For him to come back tonight showed me the guy's got just about everything he always had."

And here's what Robert Parish said after Kareem scored 35 on 16/20 shooting including 12 in the 4th quarter to help the Lakers come back from down 20 without Magic.

Originally Posted by Robert Parish
"There's not much you can do when Kareem gets the ball down there. You just try to deny him position, but that's easier said than done," said Celtics center Robert Parish,

Kareem had numerous other big 4th quarters. This was an example of how great the difference was between them as scorers. Kareem was almost always the guy they went to late in games, that usually isn't a case with centers who are easier to double, but Kareem was also a solid foul shooter for his position. Here's Bernard King talking about his team being able to play man to man defense with Kareem out of the lineup.

Originally Posted by Bernard King
"Sure, having Kareem out of there made a difference," said Bernard King, who scored 20 of his game-high 33 points in the first half for the Warriors. "With him out we could play real strong man-to-man defense."

That's what I was talking about, despite the Lakers talented, he was still the only Laker who would consistently draw double teams.

And here's Magic talking about where they also missed him.

Originally Posted by Magic Johnson
"They could do a lot of different things when they didn't have to worry about the big guy in there," said the Lakers' Magic Johnson. "They took advantage of that situation by running hard, getting inside and taking advantage of some mismatches."

That's what the 3rd best shot blocker in the league does. There's no way to understate Kareem's advantages as a scorer and defensive player.

The statistical decline isn't that great either. Minutes dropped, scoring was equal to '78 and barely lower than '80. The Lakers were a much better rebounding team in '82 than '81, and assist and block declines were insignificant. His scoring was boosted in '81 by the 45 games when Magic was out and he averaged 28.8 vs the 37 games with Magic when he averaged 22.9. And he was averaging over 25 with Westhead in '82 before Magic cried about Westhead's half court offense and got him fired.

and it was now magic johnson's team.

It's common knowledge that it was Kareem's team until the '86-'87 season.

although he might not have had the outside shot, magic still had a solid post up game in 1982. and making your point guard first option is not a good idea on most occasions due to the fact that the point guard should be the one setting people up, not setting himself up.

Magic did not have a post game yet, that's just a false. Most of the teams that have won a championship with a point guard as their best player have also won with them as their 1st option.

kareem went from 24ppg to 20, and only led the lakers in scoring in the finals 1 game.

The Lakers had a lot of balance, especially with McAdoo playing so well.

4.2 should have been increased to 8-10 without the greatest scorer of our time around.

He stepped up more than enough considering how much his team exceeded even his coaches expectations. Averaging 26-28 just wasn't his game at any point.

those rankings didn't take postseason play into much consideration, which was wrong. these are now the correct rankings.

That explains why those are closer to being accurate, the playoffs have to be considered, but you now go way overboard when comparing to an 82 game season.

david robinson also turned avery johnson from a peice of trash into a top 4 point guard in '95

at you acting like David Robinson was Steve Nash when it comes to making players better.
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