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Old 10-15-2012, 02:46 AM   #29
Frank Foley
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Default Re: IF Kobe gets Ring #6

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Originally Posted by lakerfreak
You're making claims that compare different generations of basketball. The game has evolved to the degree that these old guys you have mentioned literally might have to re-learn so to speak.

Mr. Logo came from a time where dribbling skills were non-existent, there were no zone defenses, which are more difficult than a physical hand checking man to man by the way. You put Kobe in that time frame, and its a walk in the park for him every night.

It was also an era where fouls were harder to come by, where people driving into the lane got bodychecked and suffered the occasional broken bone without getting the whistle. It's notable that Kobe really struggled with his shooting and turnovers in the year just prior to the rule banning handchecks on the perimeter--a rule, btw, that was a complete boon to explosive perimeter scorers across the league. You think Logo wouldn't appreciate having people back off an inch or two because they couldn't grab and push him while he was driving past them? With his jumper?

Look, Kobe would be great in any era, but it's fallacious to just assume he'd be that much better in the '70s after you just implied that you can't compare different eras.

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Magic and Kareem were great, with Magic taking the cake on careers.

Um. Kareem has a strong case for not just having the better career, but being the greatest player of all time.

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Lets talk about Magic and Kobe. Magic was the most unselfish and it made it better for him that all the surrounding role players were extremely talented and athletic. It was the true definition of team basketball and no team will ever be the same.

Lets talk about Kobe. He made himself such an unguardable player. If you take away one side, he'll simply take advantage of whatever is open. Additionally, his attitude as a leader has made his teammates work on their weaknesses, and nearly perfect them. He may not be a pass first guard that inflates the stats of his players, rather they learn to adapt to him, and they sacrifice for the greater good of the team.

Kobe is unguardable in the sense that he has a ridiculously high skillset and shoots the ball a ton. So, either way, he's gonna get his, but it may not be at high efficiency. His career shooting percentage is barely above the league average. He shot 45% during his 35 ppg season, which is incredible given the difficulty of his shots and the burden he took on every night, but let's not make believe that he was doing whatever he wanted out there. Even though scoring efficiency was higher in the '80's Magic (and Jordan, if you wanna throw him into the discussion) still shot the ball at a level far higher than that of their peers.


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Answer: after the departure of Shaq from this team, Kobe came in setting so many individual records. When Phil returned, Kobe averaged an outstanding 35.4 points for the game, and was even in MVP consideration when his team was mediocre. Not to mention his 62 points in three quarters against the mavericks, and his famous and unforgettable 81 point game against toronto, when they nearly creamed the lakers that game.

When Kobe was at his apex, he was about as good as anyone who ever lived. But night in, night out? There are a handful of players I'd take over him for continued, consistent excellence, including Magic and Kareem.

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2) Can Kobe win without Shaq?

Answer: He's reached the finals 3 times, winning in two of them as the number one guy. Has the potential, to win a 3rd championship this season. If they play their cards right, Kobe might even finish with 7 championships.

This shows that not only Kobe could win a championship without Shaq, but Shaq couldn't win a championship without Kobe, or some elite level guard. Shaq is in discussion for being one of the GOAT. If these facts do prove that Kobe was better than Shaq, which responds to your claim that Kobe "is not there yet". He is there, and he still has some games left in him to prove that
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Shaq couldn't win without an elite guard, sure, but Kobe couldn't win without an elite center. Pau gets a lot of grief on this site for being soft, but he and Odom (and Drew, to a far lesser extent) made up the best frontcourt in the entire league for a few years.

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I have never seen a player like Kobe Bryant, who generates so many "off-court" discussions, come back with such a strong fire and bring greatness to a team that expects nothing less. The fact that he meets expectations, and surpasses them by a mile, shows that Kobe is in fact the greatest laker of all time, and he's not done.

Magic generated a MFT of discussion earlier in his career. Google "Tragic Johnson" and "Paul Westhead Lakers," and you'll see that it wasn't all ice cream and candy during the '80's. He overcame his fair share of adversity as well.

I think everyone is entitled to believe what they want to believe about Kobe, but I don't think enough of us are giving Magic a fair shot. This is just my opinion, but there's a holy trinity of perimeter players (Jordan, Bird, Magic), and a holy trinity of centers (Wilt, Russell, Kareem). To break into either of those groups (again, in my personal opinion), you have to be something really special across the board--passing, rebounding, shooting, winning, defense, efficiency. Kobe's great, but to me, he didn't do enough to break into that group.

Last edited by Frank Foley : 10-15-2012 at 02:50 AM.
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