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Old 11-16-2012, 02:35 AM   #123
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Default Re: Romney says Obama won by showering black, Latino & young voters with big gifts.

Originally Posted by DonDadda59
I'm going to sleep now, so I won't get into the rest of your post until possibly tomorrow, but please make sure to watch the short vid I just posted above.

Just wanted to get some explanation for your statement I quoted. Please show me any data that says tax cuts for the rich is 'good for the economy'. Everything I've seen in terms of hard data and facts shows that high GDP, job creation, and overall economic growth correlates positively to times when the top tax rate was higher. I'm not interested in theory (which we've seen fail over the last decade). Show me evidence.

I'll be looking forward seeing that in the morning. Have a great night

An explanation for what I said requires theory to understand. There is evidence to back it up, but evidence can be very misleading. That's something I've learned 1,000 times over on this site alone. I see the Great Depression as evidence of central banking failure, government stimulus failure, and I see the wonderful year we had in 1946 (when government finally cut spending) as great evidence that the government needs to cut spending today.

But do other people see that? No. If they're predisposed to economic beliefs like yours, they see the exact opposite. The Great Depression is evidence that the free market inevitably causes economic chaos, and that government stimulus of all kinds is good for the economy. What the hell is up with that? Two entirely opposite conclusions drawn from the same evidence.

So how can you know which of these two viewpoints is correct? You need theory. You need a solid theory first, and then you re-examine the facts through the prism of your theory. Your theory is your flashlight in the dark hallways of "evidence."

I'll give you what I consider good evidence for why lower taxes is good for the economy. America in the 19th century. America became an economic superpower in the 19th century, with zero income taxes for most of the century (some income taxes were levied to fund war, but much less than today and not for as long a period). The 19th century saw tremendous rises in living standards for Americans, as we transformed our economy from agricultural to industrial. It was this century that saw the invention of the Steamboat, the price of steel drop tremendously, Railroads enabled country-wide travel, the invention of the sewing machine, and the telegraph. Gas stoves become more common than ever.

What spurred on these inventions was the low amount of regulations and taxes, which enabled entrepreneurs to easily start new businesses. This created the first batch of "retail workers" in America. Instead of farming, you could work the payment booth for the Railroad. You could get a job as a clerk for a local grocery store. This new division of workers is what created the American middle class. Instead of either being born into royalty or being a sustenance farmer, there was something inbetween. And instead of being born a farmer and dying a farmer, there were chances for promotion. If you worked hard, you could become a manager. You could earn a pay raise.

We take these things for granted today, but prior to the 18th-19th century, that simply was not how the world worked. 99% of the people were born poor, they worked their asses off just to survive, and then they died.

Now clearly, 19th century Americans lived much less luxuriously than we do today. They worked in sometimes dangerous conditions, with low pay compared to today's standards. But compared to prior centuries, the truly relevant measure, life had never been better. People moved to the cities, industry boomed, and immigrants flooded our borders in droves- searching for economic freedom that they could only find in the US. Unlike the rest of the world, anyone could become rich here. The governments role wasn't to expropriate and control the people, but to protect them, and otherwise leave them alone.

I have watched the first video you posted, I may get to the second one later but I need to rest my brain a little. I took some notes so I won't forget my thoughts so far.

Now, I've given you what I believe is evidence for lower taxes creating prosperity. In return, explain to me theoretically why higher taxes on the rich would work?

Last edited by joe : 11-16-2012 at 03:02 AM.
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