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-   -   Kirk Hinrich? (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106422)

Qwyjibo 10-20-2008 01:28 AM

Kirk Hinrich?
 
I've been pushing that the Raptors need serious backcourt help for a while now. Mike Miller has been my #1 option as a trade target but just today I thought, why not Kirk Hinrich be another top target?

- Hinrich is 6'3 and has shown be to a competent (sometimes quite good) defensive player at PG and SG.

- He has 4 years left on his contract at prices:$10,000,000, $9,500,000, $9,000,000, $8,000,000. That might be a bit long but the Raptors should not be giving up much in any deal here.

- Chicago already has Rose at PG and Gordon and Sefolosha at SG. Yes they might lose Gordon but a trade here might give them more room to keep him.

- Parker is gone after this season. I guarantee he will get a better offer somewhere overseas.

- I would start a backcourt of Calderon and Hinrich. You do lose offensive efficiency with Hinrich over Parker but you get younger, you gain more creativity and playmaking (something I think is a big need for the Raptors), and, if needed, you get someone else who can play PG.


So what to trade for him? Some combination of my usual trade assets:

Parker - $4.5 million expirer

Graham - $2.5 million expirer

Kapono - $5.8mil, $6.2mil, $6.41mil. You push for the Bulls to take him off your hands but I doubt that happens. Kapono's contract stinks.

Future 1st rounder - around $1.5 million assuming Raptors pick around #20.

Bargnani - $5.1mil, $6.5mil. I'd prefer to trade Bargnani for something else though.


It's not a move that turns the Raptors into instant contenders but gives them a decent younger long-term option at SG and PG without breaking the bank.

brwnman 10-20-2008 02:20 AM

Re: Kirk Hinrich?
 
I am not in favour of this. Hinrich is a bad shooter, he is foul prone and lacks size. He is a good defender, but is only effective against PGs and if we are to be contending for a championship, he can't be the answer. This move would automatically mean Kapono starting (We'd need him, if not AP must be there) which is a good move, but leaves us with nothing on the bench - less nothing than what we have now. Hinrich can be his own enemy many of nights because of the constant foul trouble he gets himself into. I would rather have Gordon coming off the bench for us for a season, but that's another topic.

Also, reports from Chicago have him struggling to find his niche sharing the PG duties and playing SG, something he is doing particularly well. He is throwing up his bricks, and his contract is not good. When he signed it, I thought he was gonna get better, but he has gotten worse...

Qwyjibo 10-20-2008 03:20 AM

Re: Kirk Hinrich?
 
He's definitely not as good of a shooter as Parker but Hinrich still is a career 38% 3pt shooter which is good. I'd still keep Moon in the starting lineup over Kapono. I think the flexibility he would give the starting lineup in terms of playmaking and passing while also getting younger and better defensively is worth the drop in offensive efficiency.

For all the people that wanted Jamal Crawford earlier, Hinrich is a slightly better shooter, better passer, a bit younger, and a better defensive player. He's not an ideal 2-guard but would be a solid option for the next several years. That is assuming he can return to his career averages rather than the down year he had last season.

The reason I brought him up is that he might be available for cheap in a trade.

bballnoob 10-20-2008 03:28 PM

Re: Kirk Hinrich?
 
I'd be hesitant to do this deal unless Parker forces BC's hand by ****ting the bed. This pretty much robs us of most if not all assets to aquire someone and to have Kirk Hinrich to show for it is pretty "meh". At the same time, Toronto would be locked into Kirk for a significant amount of money and years.

Obviously, if you can get Hinrich by dumping Parker and Kapono, go for it. But when you start throwing picks and Bargnani (if you classify him as having value), this move isn't a huge upgrade except for the fact that we can plug someone in at the 2 next year.

Hopefully as you mentioned, the more premier guys at that position will become more attainable. If the market pans out and Hinrich is the best we can get, then I wouldn't be furious if it happened.

Qwyjibo 10-20-2008 05:28 PM

Re: Kirk Hinrich?
 
Well I wouldn't want to trade Bargnani for him either. Bargnani needs to be saved for another trade. There is no way he'll ever start in Toronto and the Raptors don't need to be paying $8+ million (his qualifying offer) for a backup.

But Parker is gone after this year. Even if he wants to stay with the Raptors, there is no way you can count on him being a 30 minutes per game starter. The 82 game seasons definitely wear on him a bit and his defense seems to be just getting worse.

A 1st rounder though? I wouldn't hesitate to trade. The Raptors are probably going to be a top 12 team in the league so a pick between 18-22 will almost never yield a player like Hinrich.

brwnman 10-20-2008 06:30 PM

Re: Kirk Hinrich?
 
Kirk Hinrich is too expensive and his contract runs too long. I wasn't the one for Crawford and I am not the one for Hinrich either. Hinrich might be a good 3 point shooter, but his overall offensive game isn't that good. Also, I think you're missing the point where he has admitted that he doesn't like playing SG and is having trouble adjusting to it. This risk with Hinrich is too expensive...

craigthomasb 10-20-2008 06:37 PM

Re: Kirk Hinrich?
 
if were going to make a move on chicago i'd rather have ben gordon off them, i dont think they want to pay him, so he will go after the season, if the raps offer anthony parker and a 2 1st rounders for him, i think they'd be happy, we then get a SG who can take over back up PG duties as well, theres no way hinrich is going to accept a back up role in toronto and we cant afford a $10 million player getting 20 mins a night

Jalen5 10-20-2008 06:59 PM

Re: Kirk Hinrich?
 
Yea that contract is terrible i think that's why they havn't made any trade yet, gordan on the other hand will probably give bulls some nice returns but nothing from us.

Burgz 10-20-2008 07:17 PM

Re: Kirk Hinrich?
 
heinrich thrives in an ESTABLISHED defense system, based on on physicality and help defense. He is a great team defender, however, Sam Mitchell's defensive philosophy has always been kind of suspect with me. I would love Heinrich, but it is hard for me to imagine him fitting in to an almost non-existent defensive philosophy

bballnoob 10-20-2008 08:44 PM

Re: Kirk Hinrich?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Burgz
heinrich thrives in an ESTABLISHED defense system, based on on physicality and help defense. He is a great team defender, however, Sam Mitchell's defensive philosophy has always been kind of suspect with me. I would love Heinrich, but it is hard for me to imagine him fitting in to an almost non-existent defensive philosophy


What makes you think Mitchell does not have a defensive philosophy? During his tenure, when has he had the personnel to put together an above average offense? There are other reasons not to like the deal other than that.

Quote:

if were going to make a move on chicago i'd rather have ben gordon off them

Gordon's going to become a big pain in the ass next offseason. He (or his agent) really overestimates his value and if Toronto trades for him, it's going to be a rental for sure.

danumber88 10-20-2008 08:48 PM

Re: Kirk Hinrich?
 
Mike Miller would be dream, provides you boards, points and high %

Qwyjibo 10-20-2008 10:08 PM

Re: Kirk Hinrich?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by danumber88
Mike Miller would be dream, provides you boards, points and high %

Well that's always the optimal choice. He's a good playmaker too. I think some people don't realize how having another decent playmaker in the lineup would take some of the pressure off of Calderon and make the offense even more smooth than we have seen.


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