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-   -   Lebron through 6 seasons compared to other top 10 of all-time players (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=165169)

Roundball_Rock 02-24-2010 03:15 PM

Lebron through 6 seasons compared to other top 10 of all-time players
 
A lot of people criticize Lebron for what he has not done yet but let's look at what other top 10 of all-time players did at this stage in their careers, that is after 6 seasons in order to have a context to compare Lebron in. Is Lebron lagging far behind?

A few things have to be noted at the outset:

*Lebron came out of high school, unlike everyone else on the list except for Kobe so comparing strictly based on number of seasons is not fair in his case
*Lebron joined a 17 win team--easily the worst team any of these legends started with. The next worst were Kareem, Jordan joining 27 win teams, Bird a 29 win team and Wilt a 32 win team. As you can see, no one was close to 17 wins

The key is to look at relative talent, though. In absolute talent even the 10' Lakers would get killed in the 60's since the league was far less diluted then. However, in relative terms at minimum Lebron's teams are as bad as everyone else on the list and arguably he had the worst squads through 6 seasons, although Lebron does have a good team around him now in his 7th season. The one time he missed time with injury his team went 0-8 without him. This was the same team that Lebron took the 66 win champion Celtics to the final minute of Game 7 in the second round.

Anyway, here are the raw numbers. Make of them what you will.

Championships

Russell 5
Magic 3
Bird 2
Duncan 2
Kobe 2
Kareem 1
Lebron 0
Shaq 0
Hakeem 0
Jordan 0

MVP's

Kareem 3
Bird 2
Duncan 2
Lebron 1
Russell 1
Jordan 1
Wilt 1
Shaq 0
Kobe 0
Hakeem 0

NBA finals

Russell 6
Magic 5
Bird 3
Duncan 2
Kareem 2
Kobe 2
Lebron 1
Wilt 1
Shaq 1
Hakeem 1
Jordan 0

Conference finals

Russell 6
Magic 5
Bird 5
Kareem 4
Wilt 4
Shaq 3
Duncan 3
Kobe 3
Lebron 2
Jordan 2
Hakeem 1

As you can see, Lebron is not tearing it up but he is not underachieving at this point either as some allege. He is on track for a 2nd MVP through 7 seasons and his team has the best record in the league.

Dave3 02-24-2010 03:27 PM

Re: Lebron through 6 seasons compared to other top 10 of all-time players
 
1. Mo Williams was an all star last year. Yes he was a double injury replacement, yes he choked in the playoffs, yada yada yada...but he was an All star.

2. Which all star did Jordan play with in his first 6 years?

ctown4eva 02-24-2010 03:28 PM

Re: Lebron through 6 seasons compared to other top 10 of all-time players
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave3
1. Mo Williams was an all star last year. Yes he was a double injury replacement, yes he choked in the playoffs, yada yada yada...but he was an All star.

2. Which all star did Jordan play with in his first 6 years?


For LeBron haters, why is Mo Williams an All Star...only when it suits your argument?

Dave3 02-24-2010 03:30 PM

Re: Lebron through 6 seasons compared to other top 10 of all-time players
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ctown4eva
For LeBron haters, why is Mo Williams an All Star...only when it suits your argument?

Mo Williams is always an all star when talking about 2009. I don't know who goes back and forth with that fact, but he is. He didn't deserve to be one? Probably. He didn't play even close to one in the playoffs? Definitely! Did he play in the All star game? YES

Batchoy 02-24-2010 03:30 PM

Re: Lebron through 6 seasons compared to other top 10 of all-time players
 
True. LeBron's almost as bad as Shaq and Jordan were, through their first 6 seasons too.

pete's montreux 02-24-2010 03:30 PM

Re: Lebron through 6 seasons compared to other top 10 of all-time players
 
Mo being an all star just proves that the all star game that year was terrible.

dr8ked 02-24-2010 03:30 PM

Re: Lebron through 6 seasons compared to other top 10 of all-time players
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave3
1. Mo Williams was an all star last year. Yes he was a double injury replacement, yes he choked in the playoffs, yada yada yada...but he was an All star.

2. Which all star did Jordan play with in his first 6 years?



he was an allstar replacement, :D That is different.

Amil23 02-24-2010 03:31 PM

Re: Lebron through 6 seasons compared to other top 10 of all-time players
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ctown4eva
For LeBron haters, why is Mo Williams an All Star...only when it suits your argument?

+1

Roundball_Rock 02-24-2010 03:42 PM

Re: Lebron through 6 seasons compared to other top 10 of all-time players
 
Quote:

2. Which all star did Jordan play with in his first 6 years?

Pippen (90', MJ's 6th season). Jordan also had the #12 scorer in the league on his team as a rookie, but Woolridge was not an all-star.

Thanks for the correction, folks. I forgot about Mo. :oldlol: I edited the OP to take that comment out.

Quote:

LeBron's almost as bad as Shaq and Jordan were, through their first 6 seasons too.

Yes--and what did they do after that? Lebron is more than capable of going on a tear like Jordan and Shaq did in the middle of their careers.

DukeDelonte13 02-24-2010 03:45 PM

Re: Lebron through 6 seasons compared to other top 10 of all-time players
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dr8ked
he was an allstar replacement, :D That is different.



actually a replacement for a replacement methinks.

BigTicket 02-24-2010 03:48 PM

Re: Lebron through 6 seasons compared to other top 10 of all-time players
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave3
1. Mo Williams was an all star last year. Yes he was a double injury replacement, yes he choked in the playoffs, yada yada yada...but he was an All star.

2. Which all star did Jordan play with in his first 6 years?


Pippen was an allstar in Jordans 6th year.

Oh and Ilgauskas was an allstar in Lebrons 2nd year.

DukeDelonte13 02-24-2010 03:49 PM

Re: Lebron through 6 seasons compared to other top 10 of all-time players
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTicket
Pippen was an allstar in Jordans 6th year.

Oh and Ilgauskas was an allstar in Lebrons 2nd year.



also a replacement.

dr8ked 02-24-2010 03:51 PM

Re: Lebron through 6 seasons compared to other top 10 of all-time players
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeDelonte13
actually a replacement for a replacement methinks.



wow, a replacement of a replacement. :roll: :roll: thats not an all star.

Roundball_Rock 02-24-2010 03:52 PM

Re: Lebron through 6 seasons compared to other top 10 of all-time players
 
So we have Big Z and Mo Williams. Shall we compare those "all-stars" to the all-stars the other players on the list had? :D For the record, I do consider Jamison a legit all-star but we can talk about that in June when we compare these players through 7 seasons.

BigTicket 02-24-2010 03:52 PM

Re: Lebron through 6 seasons compared to other top 10 of all-time players
 
Btw Lebron might not have been without an allstar teammate as you originally claimed, but he was the only one who didnt play with a Hall of Famer in his first 6 seasons.

Edit: Strike that, Hakeem didn't either.


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