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-   -   Let's talk Charlie V (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198480)

DetroitPiston 11-23-2010 02:04 PM

Let's talk Charlie V
 
Has done well recently. Put up a double double against the Wizards, has been scoring consistently and all that. I thought he got a lot of unfair stick last year because of two things: 1. Not playing well despite being injured while just about everyone else was injured and 2. not being a stereotypical Pistons forward.

He keeps performing like he has, I wouldn't be averse to him starting.

boozehound 11-23-2010 03:06 PM

Re: Let's talk Charlie V
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DetroitPiston
Has done well recently. Put up a double double against the Wizards, has been scoring consistently and all that. I thought he got a lot of unfair stick last year because of two things: 1. Not playing well despite being injured while just about everyone else was injured and 2. not being a stereotypical Pistons forward.

He keeps performing like he has, I wouldn't be averse to him starting.

although I like maxiell starting, I do think CV needs to start over daye. that was a mistake from the get go. Daye is a good young player, but expecting him to come out and start out of position and give you the best chance to win? nah.


CV will be solid this year. he is attacking the basket more, rebounding at a decent rate and his shot is more on than off. his D will always be subpar, but its not like Daye is gonna be a great defender at the 4 either.

Nastradamus 11-23-2010 05:37 PM

Re: Let's talk Charlie V
 
I don't regret his deal for a second. He's an enigma to some degree, but a talent like him for 7 million is always worth the gamble to me. I see him like a young Odom(though his game compares to Sheed obviously), a guy who was a bit off with his mental stuff, his preparation and such, but who is loaded with talent and could really put it together as he gets older.

ZMonkey11 11-27-2010 12:20 PM

Re: Let's talk Charlie V
 
He is still a soft PF with little defensive skill on a team full of shooters. It is beyond me how he hasn't secured the starting lineup job yet. He is competing against an undersized powerforward in Maxiell, a SG in a SF body who wants to be a PF in Daye, and a mistake ridden rookie in Monroe.

Some games he goes missing. (case in point, the Mavericks game that just passed.)

This dude has been in the league for 5 yrs and still hasn't figured it out.

Signing of him and Gordon are still piss poor and a shadow that looms over the Pistons organization.

insidehoops 11-28-2010 05:55 AM

Re: Let's talk Charlie V
 
"I'm not known for that, diving for loose balls, I just want to win games." Villanueva said, laughing. "Last year was a tough year for all of us. Now I'm just doing whatever it takes, man, whatever it takes." That mantra didn't just start at training camp. It began this past April, at arguably Villanueva's lowest point as a Piston. He and Austin Daye missed the team flight to Philadelphia. Detroit News

Once he arrived after flying commercial, Kuester and Pistons President Joe Dumars were waiting at the team hotel and they had a long chat. In short, Dumars told him another season like 2009-10 was unacceptable. Villanueva, who said he looks at Dumars like a father figure, took the words to heart. "Yeah, last year I was out of my character," said Villanueva, citing nagging injuries that limited him and the frustration of losing. "Joe brought me back into focus." Detroit News

"My brother, he's family so he got in my ear, too," said Charlie, who signed a five-year, $35 million deal in July 2009. "It was just honest, it was no malicious intent. They all told me what they felt about it. They truly care for me." Detroit News

Read more: http://www.insidehoops.com/nba_rumor...#ixzz16ZN9Tpuo

dd24 11-29-2010 02:08 PM

Re: Let's talk Charlie V
 
Charlie can be decent. His problem is his inconsistency. I understand he had injury issues last season, but he still failed to lock up the starting spot this season. The bottom line is Daye did perform better in the preseason. Now Charlie is stepping up a bit and he's the one playing better basketball. If he can keep it up that spot will be his. The other part of the equation is how Kuester has been using his talent on the team. He doesn't really take people's strengths into his game strategy. It's something I don't really like about what he's been doing.

Stuckey 12-01-2010 02:03 AM

Re: Let's talk Charlie V
 
he's been a great spot up 3 pt shooter, he's uncomfortable driving to the hole, and i dont trust his pull up shooting

obviously cant play in the post

Nastradamus 12-01-2010 08:57 PM

Re: Let's talk Charlie V
 
I think Charlie is kind of "getting it" this year. If he keeps this attitude up for he next 3 years of his deal too, he will be looked at as a huge bargain. He's not a premiere offensive player, but he can score in multiple ways and will always probably fall in the 15-18 ppg area. He's improving defensively and is a solid to strong, but not elite rebounder.

I see his role long term with us as being Antonio Mcdyess like(not that they are the same player). A backup 4 with Monroe starting and getting 10-15 minutes at C. Charlie isn't a starter probably, but is better than a backup. 25 minute type, hopefully kind of our Odom. With those 2 in the mix, the C should be a Gortat or Vareajo type who brings mostly size,defense and energy. Jerebko and Daye can fight over the 3 spot and get spot minutes at the 4 with Summers probably ranking 3rd as far as that role goes. Prince and TMac will walk, Rip probably gets dealt but we'll see. Rip for Caron Butler would be nice, just to dump the contract I mean. Dallas could use Rip actually. Stuckey could be moved in a trade or at least to a combo guard off the bench role. Bynum is trade bait in that scenario, otherwise remains in the backup PG role. He's better in that role if A). the PG is someone other than Stuckey and B). Gordon is starting so Bynum can come out and just kind of attack and have the ball in his hands.

Stuckey,Prince,Ben,1st for Nelson and Gortat?

Kombo 05-11-2011 03:24 PM

Re: Let's talk Charlie V
 
I think that, with a healthy Jerebko, Charlie V will not have much value to this team anymore.

Monroe is developing well and offers everything (less 3pt shooting) that Charlie V brings to the table at a much higher level. He can't stretch the court to the 3pt line, but he can hit midrange shots which we haven't asked of him yet.

I think Charlie is a good rotational player, I just don't think we need him anymore.

If only we could somehow trade him straight up for Gortat... lol

dd24 05-11-2011 04:04 PM

Re: Let's talk Charlie V
 
There's a few things that could change his role a bit.... The first is if the Pistons resign Chris Wilcox. He was starting over Charlie so if he comes back he's going to take away some of those minutes.

Secondly, if they draft another big man that will eat up some minutes too.

Third, with JJ coming back that could hurt his playing time too. Of course if they don't match an offer for Wilcox then it would just be a flush.

Fourth, a new coach might have a different depth chart too....

Really the draft is what could change his role the most I think. If Detroit somehow ends up with Vessely or Kanter then I think Charlie is in for a long year. If they get a guy like Knight I think his role will be the same for the most part, a big guy to come in a stretch the court. Jerebko is a pretty good outside shooter too though, so I think the Pistons will probably try to package CV with Rip or Tay (in a sign & trade). The weird thing is the guys that teams seem to want are BG and CV so why not make one of them part of a package deal? Rip will have a lot of value as a trading chip now too. He's an expirer and in 2012 there's going to be some good FA's that teams will want to go after.

Nastradamus 05-11-2011 04:08 PM

Re: Let's talk Charlie V
 
Charlie can bring firepower off the bench that a guy like JJ can't, so he may have a role, but I'd love to trade him if possible.

I've long been upset that we never got Gortat. I bet we could have stolen him before the big trade to Phoenix for something like Prince(and maybe a pick or even Daye for christ's sake) for Pietrus/Gortat. They might have even wanted CV in the right deal

Nastradamus 05-11-2011 04:09 PM

Re: Let's talk Charlie V
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dd24
There's a few things that could change his role a bit.... The first is if the Pistons resign Chris Wilcox. He was starting over Charlie so if he comes back he's going to take away some of those minutes.

Secondly, if they draft another big man that will eat up some minutes too.

Third, with JJ coming back that could hurt his playing time too. Of course if they don't match an offer for Wilcox then it would just be a flush.

Fourth, a new coach might have a different depth chart too....

Really the draft is what could change his role the most I think. If Detroit somehow ends up with Vessely or Kanter then I think Charlie is in for a long year. If they get a guy like Knight I think his role will be the same for the most part, a big guy to come in a stretch the court. Jerebko is a pretty good outside shooter too though, so I think the Pistons will probably try to package CV with Rip or Tay (in a sign & trade). The weird thing is the guys that teams seem to want are BG and CV so why not make one of them part of a package deal? Rip will have a lot of value as a trading chip now too. He's an expirer and in 2012 there's going to be some good FA's that teams will want to go after.


Rip has 2 more years after this one, he's not an expirer.

dd24 05-11-2011 05:20 PM

Re: Let's talk Charlie V
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nastradamus
Rip has 2 more years after this one, he's not an expirer.


You're right, I did goof that up. There goes that wishful thinking....

dd24 05-11-2011 05:30 PM

Re: Let's talk Charlie V
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nastradamus
Charlie can bring firepower off the bench that a guy like JJ can't, so he may have a role, but I'd love to trade him if possible.

I've long been upset that we never got Gortat. I bet we could have stolen him before the big trade to Phoenix for something like Prince(and maybe a pick or even Daye for christ's sake) for Pietrus/Gortat. They might have even wanted CV in the right deal


I would have liked to traded for Gortat too, just at the right price. I think Prince is better than Richardson or Turkoglu which is certainly would have caught the attention of the Magic. I think they really wanted to move Carter though so it probably would have needed to be a trade like Hamilton & Prince for Gortat & Carter (with whatever other fillers). I think the Magic would have been better off but that wouldn't have necessarily helped us right away.

The other side of it too is the Magic went to a finals with Turkoglu as a main piece and they already had a good relationship with him. Phoenix was forced to trade Richardson after he started nailing Nash's wife (allegedly). It was either him or Nash that had to go and of course they wanted to keep Nash.

Nastradamus 05-13-2011 02:06 PM

Re: Let's talk Charlie V
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dd24
I would have liked to traded for Gortat too, just at the right price. I think Prince is better than Richardson or Turkoglu which is certainly would have caught the attention of the Magic. I think they really wanted to move Carter though so it probably would have needed to be a trade like Hamilton & Prince for Gortat & Carter (with whatever other fillers). I think the Magic would have been better off but that wouldn't have necessarily helped us right away.

The other side of it too is the Magic went to a finals with Turkoglu as a main piece and they already had a good relationship with him. Phoenix was forced to trade Richardson after he started nailing Nash's wife (allegedly). It was either him or Nash that had to go and of course they wanted to keep Nash.


While they did like Turk, Rip and Prince are less of a commitment and less of a risk arguably. Both are a little better at playing roles, playing off the ball etc. Rip,Prince,Wallace(Orlando could have used him last year as a vet backup C adn Ben deserved to be on a contender) for Gortat and Carter would have been awesome. Screw CArter, but it would have gotten us out of Rip's deal, given us cap space and legit starting C. Monroe would go to a Horford/Pau like role between both spots. Oh well, that's over.


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