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-   -   Bosh vs. Frye (stats) (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29611)

bigdaddybluesman 02-10-2007 01:09 PM

Bosh vs. Frye (stats)
 
Bosh 6-10 230 and to me was very weak and soft coming into the NBA.
Frye 6-11 245 bigger and stronger with a better overall game but soft too.

first year Bosh 33.30 minutes 11.5 points 7.4 rebounds in 75 games
Frye 24.11 minutes 12.3 points 5.8 rebounds in 65 games

second Bosh 37.12 minutes 16.8 points 8.9 rebounds in 81 games
Frye 26.11 minutes 10.4 points 5.5 rebounds in 40 games

Third Bosh 39.17 minutes 22.5 points 9.2 rebounds in 70 games

Fourth Bosh 37.47 minutes 23.5 points 10.7 rebounds in 38 games

Since Frye hasn't had a third or fourth year yet I can't add that. But I think both players are very similar in a lot of ways.

The difference is Toronto let him develop and overtly made him a key piece. Zeke has not made Frye any key part to this team. Like Lee he was expected to just do it. With some guys that works and with some it doesn't. It has nothing to do with the end result.

Look at the minutes and the stats. Bosh was and is not a good defensive player as far as I can remember. I think if Isiah made Frye more important in the scheme of this team he would shine. There is way too much emphasis on Curry.

knickscity 02-10-2007 03:41 PM

Re: Bosh vs. Frye (stats)
 
Hard to gauge like that. Bosh is a post player. Frye is a jumpshooter. I thought Frye bulked up to be in the paint, but I was wrong. Right now Bosh is a premier player. Having Frye as the main focus isn't the way to go. He's too soft for that.

skillswithaz 02-10-2007 06:12 PM

Re: Bosh vs. Frye (stats)
 
Frye doesn't get any chance to prove himself as a low post player. I honestly think that if he got as many touches with the ball as Bosh does, he and the Knicks would thrive. But Curry can't play away the basket so the Knicks need to leave Frye out on the wing to complement Curry. I like what Isiah is doing in putting Frye on the bench for now. He needs some time to play without having Curry in the paint.

bigdaddybluesman 02-10-2007 06:14 PM

Re: Bosh vs. Frye (stats)
 
That was my point, Bosh was a skinny kid who could not hold his own inside.

Look at him now.

You don't have to revolve the whole team around Frye but at least run a few plays to get him involved.

As it stands now he takes a few shots at the beginning of the game and then he's forgotten.

He's expected to make his own shots and plays, like Lee does and he's not that kind of player. Neither is Curry........he's fed the ball consistently.

Zeke is making a mistake with this kid and he's going to end up a big player for someone else. I feel Lee is too........they both are just bidding their time until their contracts run out and off they go.

I think Isiah is giving them a raw deal and they are too much of a team player to say something. Kudos to them both........

knickscity 02-10-2007 08:14 PM

Re: Bosh vs. Frye (stats)
 
Players should adjust and let the games come to them. What's wrong with being the junkyard dog? If Lee can scrap up a double double with no plays ran for him at all, I don't see why Frye can't do it. Even though last year shouldn't be used as any gauge LB played Frye while he didn't hardly play the other rooks. And Frye was a 14/7 guy. True, he was a rookie then, but Frye had the ball quite a bit then and to me wasn't spectacular at all. I don't think Bosh should be compared to Frye. Bosh is a franchise player. You can build around him. He isn't just a piece. He is a goto guy who can deliver. he prides defense first and he stick within himself. As evident by his scoring tear of late. Frye is not that guy, no matter how hard we may want him to be. I know Zeke has his ultimatum to fill, but he should have traded Frye last year when he had value. As of right now Frye is merely a 6-11 shooting guard with minimal defense. I realize that most don't want to hear that, but that is my assessment of the two so far. As of now Frye is a disappointment.

skillswithaz 02-10-2007 09:05 PM

Re: Bosh vs. Frye (stats)
 
You're assessing him with what you've seen and I don't think we've seen the best Frye has to offer the Knicks. He's a versatile player who's been reduced to a 6'11'' shooting guard.

knickscity 02-11-2007 02:16 AM

Re: Bosh vs. Frye (stats)
 
I seriously doubt he is forced to take jumpers. I hate Channing Frye as much as people hate Jerome James. Frye's game is gonna have to be brought out by CHANNING FRYE. He lost his starting job because he refused to stay down low and he even was praising himself over the summer for gaining a jumper. A jumpshot was the last thing he needed to worl on. He needed post aggression, which he clearly lacks. And in my opinion he would have as much opportunity to put up David Lee type numbers if he gave the one thing that I hate to see a player lack. E-F-F-O-R-T. He won't rebound because he is never in position to do so. He is basically a fouling, 6-11 shooting guard. I won't say it's all his fault, but I'm pretty sure the coaching staff and players can't see why Frye hovers around 15-20 feet from the rim shooting J's. To the bench you go son.

bigdaddybluesman 02-11-2007 05:32 AM

Re: Bosh vs. Frye (stats)
 
Yes he really pissed me off during the game. I watched him closely.

He doesn't want to play around the rim. He runs away from the boards as fast as possible. Never makes an offensive rebound. I guess he was told it's Curry's job....he used to do that until he had words with Curry during a game when they both fought for a rebound.

This kid is so screwed up he doesn't know which way is his own basket.

Good job developing young talent Zeke.

So far you sunk Nate into oblivion, took Jefferies confidence away, told Lee no matter how good you are you will always be a bench player, stopped using Balkman and confused Frye to the point of total indecision.

Great job Isiah......

So he goes back to using Jerome James, now Stevie Franchise killer.

That was great watching him turn the ball over and over again. It's bad enough to have a turnover waiting to happen in Crawford. At least Crawford puts more points up. But Crawford is a ball hog sometimes.

knickscity 02-11-2007 08:37 AM

Re: Bosh vs. Frye (stats)
 
Frye really hasn't been the same since he injured his knee. He banged it in the paint, so may he has a phobia now.:roll: . But anyways the guy shooting jumpers from 20 feet out is insane on his part.. I can relate to myself that the best way to get your offense going is to make a good defensive sequence. Frye has to make something happen down low. True, I base Frye on what I've seen. Anything else would be a guess or dream. I don't see Curry being a shotblocker, neither do I see Frye. I'm not really high on Frye at all especially now. I know I'm going all out with this, but he reminds me of John Wallace. And that dude sucked. but at least he tried to look good, but wasn't. Look how long his career lasted. A few years and done. Frye is on his way. So sad. We can blame Zeke all we want, but Zeke isn't the guy who bulked up over the summer to shoot 20-footers out there. Just my opinion Jerome James= Jared Jeffries=Channing Frye. I never thought I would do that but man I hate them all. No effort=no playing time.

bigdaddybluesman 02-11-2007 10:35 AM

Re: Bosh vs. Frye (stats)
 
Jerome James is a loser.

Frye and Jefferies are not, they are just lost.

They lost their confidence and direction.

Who's fault that is, we can only guess.

Lee is starting to look lost a bit too. If you watched last night after a free throw miss by Utah he held his position under the basket and looked over at Curry. He was like, are you going to cover the guy who just rebounded the ball. Curry didn't move and Lee was late, the guy scored.

I have seen this a few times with Curry, he's clueless on those things.

So Zeke has to tell the team you all have to cover your man and Curry's too. Anytime you expect Curry to rotate, box out or move forget it and just go with the idea he won't. If he does than great maybe it will work out.

That is not the kind of player I would revolve my team around.

I think the whole philosophy Isiah has with this team has hurt other players.

I wish I could be more specific but it just seems that way from what I see.

knickscity 02-11-2007 11:06 AM

Re: Bosh vs. Frye (stats)
 
I saw that with Lee also. It was kind of funny. He really just watched Curry just stand there. Jeffries wasn't an offensive player anyway so how did he lose confidence on defense? Zeke did nothing but praise the dude all summer. Then he got injured and Zeke was still praising him. Then he got healthy and played like crap every game. Zeke got a little short fused with him I agree, but defense doesn't require sets. It just has to be in you. Zeke thought it was in him and it's not so now he knows why the Wiz didn't match. But of course that has nothing to do with Frye. Bosh> Frye not because of tutoring, just skill on both ends of the court.

bigdaddybluesman 02-11-2007 02:31 PM

Re: Bosh vs. Frye (stats)
 
I think the skills are there with Frye.

Were his head is I don't know that's anybodies guess. My guess is that his head is up his butt.

Jefferies should not have been praised, no reason to. Isiah has no clue how to use him.

So now we have three amigos on the bench who have no clue how to play basketball other than the ball is round.

Nate, Jefferies and Frye. I'm sure another competent coach could add a SG and SF to that three and have a competitive starting 5.

LouV 02-11-2007 05:48 PM

Re: Bosh vs. Frye (stats)
 
Isiah recently said starting James will allow Frye to be in the game on the second unit, when Curry isn't there, and therefore allow Frye to post up. He said he wants Frye to be more than a jumpshooter, and that Frye can't post up if Curry is already there posting up. He said it was their (his) fault that they had turned Frye into a jumpshooter, because Curry was the man in the post.

Frye seems to have a lot of skills, great jumpshot, heads' up play, and can get the occasional rebound. He's long and can play some good defense, and will get better defensively as he gets older.

But he's a bit soft and skinny. And he played like crap early this year. He lost his job of his own doing. He's got to 'bring' it more. I mean really 'bring' it. He didn't do that early this year. Isiah gave him a chance, but then eventually pared down his playing time.

Bosh has improved his rebounding. Let's see Frye do that.


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