Nick Wright is liar - "90's East weak" but 6 team in 97 East had 54+ win and 2 had 60

[Axe]

International players are better now. Obviously Americans were the best source of players back in the day...because they were the only ones who played the sport

If Jokic, SGA, Luka, and Giannis didn't exist maybe Ant has two 27ppg titles and is talked about differently.

The earth has a lot of people outside of the US, and they care more about basketball than they did 30-40 years ago. Is what it is and it's not a bad thing.

Well, the sport wasn't even invented by an american in the first place. Lol.

[Hey Yo]

I've done this 100 times on here before, I'm not doing it again. Do your own ****ing research.

Plus anyone using the term "weak expansion era" has an agenda and mindset that isn't going to be changed by any link that I could post.

You made the claim, chico.... it's up to you to back it up.

[3ba11]

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APPLES TO APPLES


Back-to-Back Runs to the WCF at 22-23 Years Old - KJ vs ANT

Regular Season

89' and 90' KJ'.......... 21.5 per... 0.191 ws/48... 4.6 obpm... 0.0 dbpm... 59.1 ts (53.7 league avg)
24' and 25' ANT........ 19.9 per... 0.135 ws/48... 3.6 obpm... 0.2 dbpm... 58.5 ts (57.8 league avg)


Playoffs

89' and 90' KJ'.......... 21.4 per... 0.169 ws/48... 5.2 obpm... 0.6 dbpm... 58.2 ts (54.1 league avg)
24' and 25' ANT........ 21.3 per... 0.163 ws/48... 4.7 obpm... 1.7 dbpm... 58.1 ts (56.6 league avg)

If Jokic, SGA, Luka, and Giannis didn't exist maybe Ant has two 27ppg titles and is talked about differently.

A league with better Americans like MJ, Magic, Bird, (or Kobe, KD, Duncan and Lebron) is tougher than a league where the best American is worse than KJ (above)..

Since Americans are still the majority of the NBA, and since American basketball has devolved from MJ to less than KJ, we know that today's NBA player is worse on average than previous eras.. Hope this has helped improve your rudimentary understanding of this issue.

[AussieSteve]

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APPLES TO APPLES


Back-to-Back Runs to the WCF at 22-23 Years Old - KJ vs ANT

Regular Season

89' and 90' KJ'.......... 21.5 per... 0.191 ws/48... 4.6 obpm... 0.0 dbpm... 59.1 ts (53.7 league avg)
24' and 25' ANT........ 19.9 per... 0.135 ws/48... 3.6 obpm... 0.2 dbpm... 58.5 ts (57.8 league avg)


Playoffs

89' and 90' KJ'.......... 21.4 per... 0.169 ws/48... 5.2 obpm... 0.6 dbpm... 58.2 ts (54.1 league avg)
24' and 25' ANT........ 21.3 per... 0.163 ws/48... 4.7 obpm... 1.7 dbpm... 58.1 ts (56.6 league avg)

A league with better Americans like MJ, Magic, Bird, (or Kobe, KD, Duncan and Lebron) is tougher than a league where the best American is worse than KJ (above)..

Since Americans are still the majority of the NBA, and since American basketball has devolved from MJ to less than KJ, we know that today's NBA player is worse on average than previous eras.. Hope this has helped improve your rudimentary understanding of this issue.

You keep comparing KJ and Ant stats like it means something. It doesn't prove that he's better, it proves the rest of the league was worse... Because we know that he wasn't better.

A worse player can get better stats if his competition isn't as good. Does that not compute with you?

[Axe]

You keep comparing KJ and Ant stats like it means something. It doesn't prove that he's better, it proves the rest of the league was worse... Because we know that he wasn't better.

A worse player can get better stats if his competition isn't as good. Does that not compute with you?

I'm a bit hesitant to use this as an example to what you're trying to point out here. But doesn't that one sound similar to saying that lebron shines best and does great playing on a team full of scrubs?

[3ba11]

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Shaq/Penny Magic were formidable in 96', while the 93' Knicks won 60 games and were the 1 seed with homecourt.. The 97' Heat won 60 games, and the Bad Boys were 2-time defending champs in 91' with Isiah/Dumars/Rodman at 29/27/29 years old.. Cavs won 57 games and had 3 all-stars in 92'.

Facts gonna facts

[AussieSteve]

Facts gonna facts

A league with better international players like Jokic, Giannis, Donkic and SGA is tougher than a league where the best inrernationals are worse than and OG and Zubac (Kukoc and Longley).

[3ba11]

A league with better international players like Jokic, Giannis, Donkic and SGA is tougher than a league where the best inrernationals are worse than and OG and Zubac (Kukoc and Longley).

International players are the minority though, so the increase of the minority's caliber can't offset the cratering of the majority's caliber (MJ to KJ)

[AussieSteve]

International players are the minority though, so the increase of the minority's caliber can't offset the cratering of the majority's caliber (MJ to KJ)

The minority that is made up by international players today was made of player's promoted from the CBA in '96, who weren't good enough to make the NBA a few years earlier.

[3ba11]

The minority that is made up by international players today was made of player's promoted from the CBA in '96, who weren't good enough to make the NBA a few years earlier.

the only reason many international players can make today's NBA is because Americans have cratered from MJ to KJ - this allows more international players in

[Axe]

Do you usually just spew bullshit out of mouth through your fingertips onto you keyboard?

[AussieSteve]

the only reason many international players can make today's NBA is because Americans have cratered from MJ to KJ - this allows more international players in

This is something that you claim without any possible way to validate it.

An much more plausible argument is that IF American players seem to be not as good today, it's because the rest of the world has caught up is. There is no reason why the standard of US players would have declined, but a clear reason for why international players have gotten better.

Something that doesn't need to be validated, because it's manifestly obvious, is that the only reason many players, who would have been sub-NBA level in the late 80s, made the NBA in the late 90s is that the league opened up 25% more roster spots, without increasing the talent pool from which it sourced players.

By extension, superstars in the late 90s were more frequently matched up on players who would not have made the NBA in any other period, post-merger. And more frequently playing against teams who's franchise players would have been a 2nd option in any other period.

[3ba11]

This is something that you claim without any possible way to validate it.

An much more plausible argument is that IF American players seem to be not as good today, it's because the rest of the world has caught up is. There is no reason why the standard of US players would have declined, but a clear reason for why international players have gotten better.

Something that doesn't need to be validated, because it's manifestly obvious, is that the only reason many players, who would have been sub-NBA level in the late 80s, made the NBA in the late 90s is that the league opened up 25% more roster spots, without increasing the talent pool from which it sourced players.

By extension, superstars in the late 90s were more frequently matched up on players who would not have made the NBA in any other period, post-merger. And more frequently playing against teams who's franchise players would have been a 2nd option in any other period.

The international game catching up has nothing to do with Ant and Ja being nothing compared to Shaq and MJ... Americans are simply much worse than prior eras

So the only reason many international players can make today's NBA is because Americans have cratered from MJ to KJ - this allows more international players in

[AussieSteve]

The international game catching up has nothing to do with Ant and Ja being nothing compared to Shaq and MJ... Americans are simply much worse than prior eras

So the only reason many international players can make today's NBA is because Americans have cratered from MJ to KJ - this allows more international players in

Yeah sorry. This argument makes no sense. When basketball participation rates globally have skyrocketed in the last 30 years, it's obvious that the rest of the world would produce more and better talent.

There's no coherent reason why Americans would have got worse, and there is no coherent reason that the rest of the world would not have got better despite the increase in participation.

Your argument is completely transparent. It's reverse engineered to ensure that MJ played in a strong era. It's not based in reality.

All you have is stats to support your ramblings. But stats are an indication performance relative to team mates and competiton. If a players team mates and competition are, on average, worse, their stats will be better... so this is a non argument.

[3ba11]

Yeah sorry. This argument makes no sense. When basketball participation rates globally have skyrocketed in the last 30 years, it's obvious that the rest of the world would produce more and better talent.

There's no coherent reason why Americans would have got worse, and there is no coherent reason that the rest of the world would not have got better despite the increase in participation.

Your argument is completely transparent. It's reverse engineered to ensure that MJ played in a strong era. It's not based in reality.

All you have is stats to support your ramblings. But stats are an indication performance relative to team mates and competiton. If a players team mates and competition are, on average, worse, their stats will be better... so this is a non argument.

"No coherent reason why Americans got worse?"

There are many coherent reasons... Adam Silver reduced the NBA format to a hands-off, spaced-out beginner format with an open paint, which doesn't produce the best players anymore... So all the best players come from tougher formats overseas that have more physicality and less spacing, thus producing superior hoops instinct and skill..

So again, regardless of the international game going bonkers like you say, Americans are still the majority of the NBA, so their cratering conclusively confirms that today's NBA player is worse overall, or on average...

And btw, we mentioned earlier how the 4 thru 7 spots on OKC are undecorated, 3-point robots - that's what Silver's beginner format has done, while also dumbing down the hoops instinct of our most talented stars (Ant, Ja, Tatum)... In contrast to the 3-pt robots that permeate today's benches, the 4 thru 7 spots on Jordan's Finals opponents were decorated resumes of all-star, all-defense and/or 20 ppg.. This is obvious just by comparing the bench of today's game (3-pt robots) to previous eras (diverse scorers).