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Old 02-09-2013, 11:19 PM   #61
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Default Re: Ketchup vs Mustard 2/9/2013 Cavaliers @ Nuggets OGT

Good game, Denver fans. Very nice looking team, right there. They may not have that one flashy superstar, but they also have no discernible weaknesses. Just a very solid all-around team. They make you pay for mistakes... Great at running after turnovers.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:20 PM   #62
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Default Re: Ketchup vs Mustard 2/9/2013 Cavaliers @ Nuggets OGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixer6ad
It's sad to watch Denver play this well, win 9 in a row, and look great - yet realize there's absolutely no way they are an elite team and will make a run at the WC championship.

Same old...same old.

No doubt. As a fan you hold out hope for the miracle run tho. Right now I'm hoping we finish with HC and win out in the 1st round. Upset somebody in the 2nd round and close my eyes and pray for the rest
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:21 PM   #63
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Default Re: Ketchup vs Mustard 2/9/2013 Cavaliers @ Nuggets OGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixer6ad
Would you please, one time as a poster on ISH say one thing that makes any sense?

Why don't you - one damn time - make a post on here that legitimately demonstrates at least a partial understanding of this game we love, and stay away from just waiting for people to make a mistake and then pouncing.

Have any of your own thoughts?

Go to bed and leave this for the adults.
OK, sorry if I have offended you
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:21 PM   #64
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Default Re: Ketchup vs Mustard 2/9/2013 Cavaliers @ Nuggets OGT

I don't know... I think this Denver team, if it stays totally healthy, could really surprise some people come playoff time.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:27 PM   #65
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Default Re: Ketchup vs Mustard 2/9/2013 Cavaliers @ Nuggets OGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
I don't know... I think this Denver team, if it stays totally healthy, could really surprise some people come playoff time.

Hope so. They have some of the ingredients to do so but at the same time go through defensive struggles. Awful FT shooting and they are without a doubt a team that needs to get calls to win because all they do is attack the paint. Same question always arises about closing out games too, if Denver can win in those situations without a "closer" or "superstar".

Home court is key and after that I really don't have a clue. Besides teams like OKC, Miami and maybe the Spurs is anybody else really favored? Seems like it's those guy's and than everybody else. Maybe the Knicks because I'm sure some don't have Miami 100% coming out the East. Doubtful Denver ever gets thrown into that elite category, and rightfully so if you're talking 3-4 teams in the league who are favorites to win the championship.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:34 PM   #66
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Default Re: Ketchup vs Mustard 2/9/2013 Cavaliers @ Nuggets OGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
Hope so. They have some of the ingredients to do so but at the same time go through defensive struggles. Awful FT shooting and they are without a doubt a team that needs to get calls to win because all they do is attack the paint. Same question always arises about closing out games too, if Denver can win in those situations without a "closer" or "superstar".

Home court is key and after that I really don't have a clue. Besides teams like OKC, Miami and maybe the Spurs is anybody else really favored? Seems like it's those guy's and than everybody else. Maybe the Knicks because I'm sure some don't have Miami 100% coming out the East. Doubtful Denver ever gets thrown into that elite category, and rightfully so if you're talking 3-4 teams in the league who are favorites to win the championship.
Yes, having a "closer" is important come playoff time... But, at the same time, Iggy had his moments in Philly. Teams led by him routinely took some great Boston teams to the limit. I'm not sure if he is the X-factor it will take come playoff time, but the rest of the team is so damn solid, he doesn't have to be a one-man show.

There are lots of guys on that roster who can create for themselves or playmake for others. That is what you need in the postseason.

The free throw shooting is a concern. Maybe there is a move or two which can be made at the deadline to help fix it? It feels like this team is on the brink and maybe one really great move could put it over the top.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:36 PM   #67
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Default Re: Ketchup vs Mustard 2/9/2013 Cavaliers @ Nuggets OGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
Cav fans getting screwed again but I suppose having two players in the past 8 years who were good enough for people to jockey and fight about is a pretty good problem to have

Such a young team in the middle of developing you'd think the whole fighting thing would wait until the playoffs. Have to go through people shitting on there players around Irving while they rebuild
It started REALLY early this time around. I guess that is because Irving's stunning play at such an early stage in his career. We've already got the Irving fanboys, which are irritating both real Cavs fans and fans of other teams/players and the detractors, usually player fans of other point guards in the league who aren't happy that Irving is this good this soon.

Not a horrible problem to have, but annoying nonetheless.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:40 PM   #68
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Default Re: Ketchup vs Mustard 2/9/2013 Cavaliers @ Nuggets OGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack

Not a horrible problem to have, but annoying nonetheless.

No doubt, esp for real Cavs fans who probably like the rest of there young core just as much. Irving is amazing no doubt but probably sucks to see everyone else get thrown under the bus to the general public in the basketball world
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:04 AM   #69
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Default Re: Ketchup vs Mustard 2/9/2013 Cavaliers @ Nuggets OGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
No doubt, esp for real Cavs fans who probably like the rest of there young core just as much. Irving is amazing no doubt but probably sucks to see everyone else get thrown under the bus to the general public in the basketball world
The new Irving fanboys have been really annoying me on that end of it.

"His assists would be higher if he had any decent teammates."

"Don't worry, he'll leave after his rookie contract."

etc.

I've had to confront several of them, which is odd. Whether you are a Cavs fan or an Irving fan, we should all be on the same side. But, promoting their guy isn't good enough. They have to go after the rest of the team and franchise.

Tristan Thompson is averaging a double-double this year at 21 years old and 15/11 since Varejao was injured 24 games ago. He should be getting recognition for that.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:53 AM   #70
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Default Re: Ketchup vs Mustard 2/9/2013 Cavaliers @ Nuggets OGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by noob cake
Post made sense until a known Irving hater/Westbrook homer posted it. Cavs sucks.

No one outside of Irving is a rotation player on a championships team. Waiters, Speight, Gee, Thompson are decent players. Everyone else sucks.


And you're a Duke fan who I'm starting to think doesn't know shit about basketball. You praise and even over praise all things Duke and that's pretty much it. How the hell do you know what type of player Waiters and Thompson are going to become? One's a 21 year old rookie and one is a 21 year old second year player.
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:27 AM   #71
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Default Re: Ketchup vs Mustard 2/9/2013 Cavaliers @ Nuggets OGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by KG215


And you're a Duke fan who I'm starting to think doesn't know shit about basketball. You praise and even over praise all things Duke and that's pretty much it. How the hell do you know what type of player Waiters and Thompson are going to become? One's a 21 year old rookie and one is a 21 year old second year player.
Pay him no mind. Fanboys' jobs are to do whatever it takes to prop their chosen guy up, teammates be damned.
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:44 AM   #72
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Default Re: Ketchup vs Mustard 2/9/2013 Cavaliers @ Nuggets OGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Pay him no mind. Fanboys' jobs are to do whatever it takes to prop their chosen guy up, teammates be damned.
What's your feelings about what will probably be the team's core going forward? I don't see how you can't think Thompson won't be a very good starting PF. Maybe a player with 12-15 PPG 8-10 RPG prime potential. I'm not sure Waiters is someone who will develop into "second best player on championship contender" status, but it's not out of the question; and besides, if he reaches his full potential, you could do a lot worse for a third best player on a playoff team, especially when that team's best player is someone as good as Kyrie. I mean that's three pretty damn good pieces to build around in my opinion.

I'm a UNC fan, but I'm not going to pretend Zeller will become a solid starting center, although I don't think you can just write that possibility off because of a bad two or three week stretch 40+ games into his rookie year. Especially when he's been thrust into a starting role he's clearly not ready for and at a time when a lot of rookies hit the rookie wall. At the very least, I think you've got the beginning of what could be a very good second unit in Speights, Ellington, and Zeller if you keep all of them.

I don't know, I just think Cleveland has some very good pieces in place, and are on the right track of at least building a good playoff caliber team.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:49 AM   #73
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Default Re: Ketchup vs Mustard 2/9/2013 Cavaliers @ Nuggets OGT

i didnt think denver could be that good defensively, forced tons of turnovers, and just played with great energy. especially lawson, he was really a pest all game long, and set up plenty of fast break opportunities.

the cavs offense (as AC pointed out numerous times) looked really aimless, with very little movement. it looked like there was very little structure, and very few actual plays being ran. kinda discouraging.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:00 PM   #74
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Default Re: Ketchup vs Mustard 2/9/2013 Cavaliers @ Nuggets OGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixer6ad
It's sad to watch Denver play this well, win 9 in a row, and look great - yet realize there's absolutely no way they are an elite team and will make a run at the WC championship.

Same old...same old.

Things fans say after their team loses
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:54 PM   #75
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Default Re: Ketchup vs Mustard 2/9/2013 Cavaliers @ Nuggets OGT

Quote:
Originally Posted by KG215
What's your feelings about what will probably be the team's core going forward? I don't see how you can't think Thompson won't be a very good starting PF. Maybe a player with 12-15 PPG 8-10 RPG prime potential. I'm not sure Waiters is someone who will develop into "second best player on championship contender" status, but it's not out of the question; and besides, if he reaches his full potential, you could do a lot worse for a third best player on a playoff team, especially when that team's best player is someone as good as Kyrie. I mean that's three pretty damn good pieces to build around in my opinion.

I'm a UNC fan, but I'm not going to pretend Zeller will become a solid starting center, although I don't think you can just write that possibility off because of a bad two or three week stretch 40+ games into his rookie year. Especially when he's been thrust into a starting role he's clearly not ready for and at a time when a lot of rookies hit the rookie wall. At the very least, I think you've got the beginning of what could be a very good second unit in Speights, Ellington, and Zeller if you keep all of them.

I don't know, I just think Cleveland has some very good pieces in place, and are on the right track of at least building a good playoff caliber team.
I've been saying it all year... I think the Cavs are in a tremendous position to build back into a contender WAY faster than anyone ever imagined (myself included).

The hard part is already done. Finding your franchise player can take decades for some franchises. We've been lucky enough to have two in the span of eight years.

The second phase is also nearing its completion... Surround that superstar, franchise guy with a core of young talent. I am very excited about the way Tristan has grown since Andy went down and Waiters has all of the talent in the world. Considering both guys are barely passed 20, I think they can grow into key pieces on a good team.

Zeller is probably more of a good bench guy/role player. I have confidence that he can build into that. I'm not all that discouraged with his recent bad play. For the first 20 games, he was doing well. It was just a case of him being thrust into a starting center role with tons of minutes before he was ready.

I feel like this coming draft will probably be the last time we have a high lottery pick. So, there will probably be one more young guy who is added to this core through the draft.

I think, next year, Grant and Gilbert will begin using all of that cap space to fill out the roster with solid players... Maybe even a big signing or trade that no one sees coming.

So...

Phase 1 - Find your franchise guy (done)
Phase 2 - Build around him through the draft (almost done)
Phase 3 - Use cap space and/or draft picks to add talent
Phase 4 - Add veterans to complete the roster

I'd say this team is currently in-between phases 2 and 3. And, I couldn't be happier with the way things are going since 2010.
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