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Old 09-04-2006, 10:49 AM   #1
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Default Yet another one of Babcocks mistakes...

Is anyone else still pissed by the selection of Joey Graham in last years draft, specifically ONE SPOT before Danny Grainger???

I know I definitely am. Another move by Babcock the total idiot.

Here we are with an improved roster. However, we're still not certain about who will be in our starting rotation along with TJ/Mo/Bosh and Rasho. Will Parker play along with Mo? Maybe go smaller with Fred Jones? This discussion is still going on, while Joey Graham sits on our pine. We're wondering if PJ Tucker will also be stealing Joey's mins.

Had we taken Grainger, like all Raptor fans though we should, but I guess it made too much sense, we would have our starting SF for the next 12 years!!! He is exactly what we need. Gritty, defensive, athletic but not inept on offense. This guy will be starting for the Pacers this year, helping them to try and win a playoff series. Us? Well, we're still searching for our starting SF.

I love that Raps, and I really hope BC can turn this ship around. But Babcock just killed us in so many ways. BC opted for Bargs this year, instead of filling the hole on the wing, which is fine....but just imagine we had Grainger up front for the next 10 years with Bosh and Bargs.....!!!!!! TJ running the point. All we need is a dead eye marksman at the 2 and we would be very solid.
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Old 09-04-2006, 10:59 AM   #2
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Joey is still developing so i aint gonna say this is a mistake yet, waiting for the upcoming season so he can prove y the Raptors picked him and hopefully he'll produce
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Old 09-04-2006, 11:01 AM   #3
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Joey is still developing so i aint gonna say this is a mistake yet, waiting for the upcoming season so he can prove y the Raptors picked him and hopefully he'll produce

Joey needs to develop a hell of a lot more to be in the same class as Grainger...that is all I am saying. Nobody has confidence that Joey Graham will be our SF for the next 10+ years....Grainger yes. I understand being optimistic, but come on here. Joey Graham or Danny Gainger!? man....

Joey has to fight with like 4 guys for mins, because none are clear cut starters. If Grainger was on the roster, every would know who the SF is. IMO.
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Old 09-04-2006, 11:08 AM   #4
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All his moves are inter-connected...

lets just review...

Hoffa - horrible (but drafted Roko Ukic, signed Jose Calderon, and got Uros Slokar, also Pape Sow, so all those moves make up for Hoffa)
Rafer Signing - bad, traded for Mike James - good... so a washout
Carter trade - bad but because of that trade we were able to get Villanueva, if we don't trade carter for the pick from NJ (16th pick overall) we are looking at taking a SF/SG with the #7 pick because of the team at that time... now having that extra pick allowed Villanueva to be here, a potential all-star...

so in hindsight, babcock made some bad moves but also made good moves along with it, but they always get over-looked with Hoffa and Carter... which in my opinion shouldn't be the case... I wanted Rob Babcock here and I agreed with his plan of building step by step and having cap space when needed, like the Chicago Bulls... but we got a more proven GM in Bryan Colangelo so I am not really pissed about it, but we still won't make the playoffs this year...

I liked what Mike Wilner (yes the baseball guy) said on the Fan590, he said that you have to look at the move when it was first made and what were the reactions... he continued on by saying that when the Raptors gave out the huge contracts to JYD, Alvin, Carter, AD, people were praising Glen Grunwald and saying he should be the executive of the year... but the moves didn't pay off but lets be honest, every single raptor fan agreed with that move at the time... we were all wrong on it... but the moral of the story is, that you have to look at the scenario on when that move was made, and not when its all said and done... People still keep saying we coulda had Kobe, and Iguodala, but so can 29 other teams in different scenarios...
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Old 09-04-2006, 11:10 AM   #5
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another thing, stop calling him grainger, its granger...

Granger was suppose to be a lottery pick (on most mocks, top 10) but alot of teams backed off of him because of his knee which had some problem to it... so Raptors went with the safest pick... so I don't blame them...
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Old 09-04-2006, 11:26 AM   #6
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I liked what Mike Wilner (yes the baseball guy) said on the Fan590, he said that you have to look at the move when it was first made and what were the reactions... he continued on by saying that when the Raptors gave out the huge contracts to JYD, Alvin, Carter, AD, people were praising Glen Grunwald and saying he should be the executive of the year... but the moves didn't pay off but lets be honest, every single raptor fan agreed with that move at the time... we were all wrong on it... but the moral of the story is, that you have to look at the scenario on when that move was made, and not when its all said and done... People still keep saying we coulda had Kobe, and Iguodala, but so can 29 other teams in different scenarios...

I agree that you have to look at the big picture and you can't say things like we should have taken Kobe etc etc. Some things a lot of teams missed out on. However, we SHOULD have taken iggy and we should have taken Granger (sorry for adding the 'i'....hopefully you're ok). Would Indy deal Granger for Joey? Not a chance. I would say that the majority of the Raptor fans on this board were a bit shocked by the Graham pick, when Granger was available, and our thoughts have been proven correct.

As for the signings by Grunwald, I personally NEVER thought giving an aging mediocre vet like Antonio Davis a freakin' MAX was a good move. In addition, signing a crippled Alvin Williams (he was hurting then) to a 6 year deal was also a crazy move.

I also can't support the Hoffa pick in any way, regardless of what moves had to be made later. The fact is a free agent signing of Jose and draft Ukic who won't come over and Slokar who will be a marginal player for us, doesn't make up for us taking Hoffa, at all. And they are also unrelated. I also don't think anything good came from the Rafer deal and the subsequent Mike James trade, who later walked for nothing. Finally, the VC deal, no matter how you slice it, was disgusting.

Last edited by RapsFan : 09-04-2006 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 09-04-2006, 11:30 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brwnman
another thing, stop calling him grainger, its granger...

Granger was suppose to be a lottery pick (on most mocks, top 10) but alot of teams backed off of him because of his knee which had some problem to it... so Raptors went with the safest pick... so I don't blame them...

Just about to say...Granger's knee could blow up any time and have issues for the rest of his career unike Graham who is one of the most durable and athletic players in the leauge and don't forget Granger was one of the most NBA rdy players in that draft compared to Joey who is still fine tuning some of his skills... there was plenty of other GM's, GOOD GM's who also passed on Granger.
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Old 09-04-2006, 11:36 AM   #8
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Just about to say...Granger's knee could blow up any time and have issues for the rest of his career unike Graham who is one of the most durable and athletic players in the leauge and don't forget Granger was one of the most NBA rdy players in that draft compared to Joey who is still fine tuning some of his skills... there was plenty of other GM's, GOOD GM's who also passed on Granger.

I always love the comments about player A having a career ending injury. How Joey Graham can be considered one of the most durable players in the league is beyond me. One year in the league. The fact is, any player could get hurt at any time. I also find it strange when people refer to a polished player like it's a bad thing. Maybe he's just a better player? I read someone on this board say that Adam Morrison has peaked!! The guy hasn't yet played a min. in the NBA. Did you know that Granger is also younger the Graham? So he's young and more NBA ready...but that's bad?

Anyway, I don't see how Granger on the Raps isn't a better situation then Graham on the Raps battling for mins. But it is what it is and time will tell.
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Old 09-04-2006, 11:46 AM   #9
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One year in the NBA yes, but he aslo had 4 years of college experience.... And by the way the WORST possible injuries to a basketball player are to his knee's and is even worse when they happen to a kid when he is still in college and developing his body, that stuff lingers and it could blow anytime and ruin careers, look at our boy Alvin and countless others...
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Old 09-04-2006, 11:56 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by RapsFan
I agree that you have to look at the big picture and you can't say things like we should have taken Kobe etc etc. Some things a lot of teams missed out on. However, we SHOULD have taken iggy and we should have taken Granger (sorry for adding the 'i'....hopefully you're ok). Would Indy deal Granger for Joey? Not a chance. I would say that the majority of the Raptor fans on this board were a bit shocked by the Graham pick, when Granger was available, and our thoughts have been proven correct.

As for the signings by Grunwald, I personally NEVER thought giving an aging mediocre vet like Antonio Davis a freakin' MAX was a good move. In addition, signing a crippled Alvin Williams (he was hurting then) to a 6 year deal was also a crazy move.

I also can't support the Hoffa pick in any way, regardless of what moves had to be made later. The fact is a free agent signing of Jose and draft Ukic who won't come over and Slokar who will be a marginal player for us, doesn't make up for us taking Hoffa, at all. And they are also unrelated. I also don't think anything good came from the Rafer deal and the subsequent Mike James trade, who later walked for nothing. Finally, the VC deal, no matter how you slice it, was disgusting.

with the grainger and granger thing, my bad because everything I write seems to be rude (it was even to me when I read my own post), so my bad on that part...

c'mon man you serious about the Alvin and AD part? everyone was just enthused about those moves... well I think you may have been the only one seeing that far ahead... considering AD was a big man (C/PF) and he was a good one at the time, consistent double double type guy... people thought that was a great move... and Alvin was suppose to be the leader at point, but his knees just gave out to early... no-one expected that, except when we traded him and he failed his physical... that shoulda been a sign... I know Hoffa move is bad now, but again at the time, people said Hoffa is a nba ready center... early pick but it was the raptors' need and he will fit the bill... it didn't work out that way... Roko will come to NBA next year... and the VC move, it just looks bad... but lemme ask you, would you have capspace right now and joey graham, or capspace 2007, villanueva and graham...
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Old 09-04-2006, 12:10 PM   #11
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but lemme ask you, would you have capspace right now and joey graham, or capspace 2007, villanueva and graham...

Just so I am clear, what is the difference here? The Jalen Rose deal? Are you asking would I have liked to have done the Jalen deal or not?

I would have rather kept Rose and our second 1st rounder this year (could have been a number of solid players), and had the Cap space next season where there are way more big free agents and there won't be many teams able to pay. We still make the TJ Ford deal. We could have signed Parker with our MLE. We get a 2007 pick and have a boat load of cap space in 2007. That is my answer, you? Potentially we move Mo Pete mid season or let him walk. We have TJ/Parker/Bosh/Bargs/Rasho, a 2007 Lotto pick, $10+ mill in cap space to toss at a legit player (not unproven NBA talents). Of course we still have Graham, Tucker, Humphries, Calderon. But we also have that 2nd 2006 first rounder (pick 20). To me, that is a better situation then having Garbajosa and Fred Jones. Next year there are TONS of big free agents. Some will say BC wouldn't have come, but I disagree. He doesn't have tunnel vision and he could see the potential for 2007.

Not sure if I answered your question or not.

Last edited by RapsFan : 09-04-2006 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 09-04-2006, 04:06 PM   #12
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I still don't really understand that Rose deal....
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Old 09-04-2006, 04:22 PM   #13
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the move for tj ford alone guarantees a good off season.He is gonna electrify toronto.
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Old 09-04-2006, 04:52 PM   #14
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one of the reason why so many teams passed on Granger was because he was supposed to have some sort of knee problem, which didnt show up. I guess the Pacers took a shot at him, and it worked out, especially with the whole Ron Artest situation, they needed another SF that can come in and play defense
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Old 09-04-2006, 04:57 PM   #15
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one of the reason why so many teams passed on Granger was because he was supposed to have some sort of knee problem, which didnt show up. I guess the Pacers took a shot at him, and it worked out, especially with the whole Ron Artest situation, they needed another SF that can come in and play defense

people seem not to be reading my post about granger's knee that I already stated...
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