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Old 12-30-2008, 03:12 PM   #1
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Default Surprisingly, a John Hollinger article that makes perfect sense.

It's somewhat old, Dec. 4 around the time that Smitch was fired.. And I was reading it, all of his points were right on the money.

I picked out some of the main ones but here's the link: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/column...ng elo-081203

Quote:
1. The greatest reason Toronto changed generals Wednesday is the fact that general manager Bryan Colangelo essentially painted himself into a corner. The Raps already played their trump card this summer by trading T.J. Ford, the expiring contract of Rasho Nesterovic and a first-round pick to Indiana for Jermaine O'Neal. Minus those three assets, the Raps have no tradable pieces left unless they want to nuke the Chris Bosh-Jose Calderon-Andrea Bargnani-O'Neal core they hoped would push them to a deep playoff run this season.

2. The firing speaks as much to Colangelo's performance as it does to Mitchell's, having come about partly because several personnel moves (Bargnani, Jason Kapono, Roko Ukic, arguably O'Neal) have flopped. As such, the honeymoon phase of his stewardship of the Raptors officially ended Wednesday.

As much as Colangelo might hope that Mitchell was simply misusing his roster, the GM's tenure has contained enough questionable decisions to raise considerable doubt as to whether the next coach can fare any better. The Raps have no wing players who can create a shot, no backup point guard, only one promising young player and just three players you could say would start for a majority of the league's teams.

3. Toronto has to stop granting unearned minutes to players in whom Colangelo invested heavily until those players actually perform on the court. Bargnani is the prime example; he's been granted far too much playing time based on potential future returns rather than current performance, and for a team in win-now mode, it's been puzzling to see him continue to have such a prominent role. The same goes for Kapono.

4. While he's at it, Triano should beg his boss to make a call to the D-League and get somebody, anybody, to replace the comically ineffective duo of Will Solomon and Ukic that Colangelo imported to back up Calderon.

5. The larger question, though, is whether this roster can be salvaged. The Raps have less than two years to convince Bosh that it's better to stick around than to pair up with somebody like LeBron or Amare in New York, and they're not exactly making a compelling case so far.


Thus, although Mitchell took the bullet Wednesday, Colangelo is the one who must bear the brunt of the blame for the Raptors' sluggish start. This move says more about his performance than about Mitchell's.

My thoughts are that although I feel Smitch was the wrong coach for this team, he was still the scapegoat. Colangelo's first instinct to deflect the blame from himself was to fire the coach when he's just as much if not more to blame. Our roster problems are glaringly obvious and these minor moves for bench warmers that BC likes to make do nothing but tie up more money. Something's gotta give.
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Old 12-30-2008, 05:25 PM   #2
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Default Re: Surprisingly, a John Hollinger article that makes perfect sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
It's somewhat old, Dec. 4 around the time that Smitch was fired.. And I was reading it, all of his points were right on the money.

I picked out some of the main ones but here's the link: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/column...ng elo-081203



My thoughts are that although I feel Smitch was the wrong coach for this team, he was still the scapegoat. Colangelo's first instinct to deflect the blame from himself was to fire the coach when he's just as much if not more to blame. Our roster problems are glaringly obvious and these minor moves for bench warmers that BC likes to make do nothing but tie up more money. Something's gotta give.

How i see it, do whatever is necessary to WIN NOW forget about the future because CHRIS BOSH is our future. you guys do realize that we have in our hands one of the BEST players in the league and if we want to win it's going to be right now! Find ways to get some decent supporting cast for Chris Bosh before it's too late ....... we can't wait for Bargnani forever and he can get us that missing Wing player we need right now to win ........ just think about all this ......
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Old 12-30-2008, 06:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: Surprisingly, a John Hollinger article that makes perfect sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrcp3
How i see it, do whatever is necessary to WIN NOW forget about the future because CHRIS BOSH is our future. you guys do realize that we have in our hands one of the BEST players in the league and if we want to win it's going to be right now! Find ways to get some decent supporting cast for Chris Bosh before it's too late ....... we can't wait for Bargnani forever and he can get us that missing Wing player we need right now to win ........ just think about all this ......

I agree we need are missing wing and all this but say we just fix the pieces for now, what's going to be the future. JO doesn't have much left we do need to trade Bargs but when JO is gone were gonna have a PF a PG and maybe a SF or SG (depends who we trade for bargs) and a scrub C, will be more out rebounded than ever you pointed this out too, 'cause you always like to start a threads about the obvious. We aren't a lottery team we wont get any high picks we wont have any young stars. Where going to be where we were last year with no inside presence just bosh. So it looks like are only chances of winging right now is trading bargs but think about two years from now, when were right back where we were before and maybe without bosh.
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Old 12-30-2008, 06:53 PM   #4
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Default Re: Surprisingly, a John Hollinger article that makes perfect sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jc23
I agree we need are missing wing and all this but say we just fix the pieces for now, what's going to be the future. JO doesn't have much left we do need to trade Bargs but when JO is gone were gonna have a PF a PG and maybe a SF or SG (depends who we trade for bargs) and a scrub C, will be more out rebounded than ever you pointed this out too, 'cause you always like to start a threads about the obvious. We aren't a lottery team we wont get any high picks we wont have any young stars. Where going to be where we were last year with no inside presence just bosh. So it looks like are only chances of winging right now is trading bargs but think about two years from now, when were right back where we were before and maybe without bosh.

So stay mediocre, probably miss the playoffs, so we can have another mediocre team 2 years from now? We aren't a lottery team....we certainly are looking like it now.

If you're not going to win, or aren't going in that direction, blow it up. Who cares if you have Chris Bosh if you suck. I would rather cheer for a roster like OCK (young talent, cap room, picks etc) then a team like ours.
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Old 12-30-2008, 07:20 PM   #5
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Default Re: Surprisingly, a John Hollinger article that makes perfect sense.

I recently found out GSW won 9 games, and to think they were a scare to this team. Actually it feels like every game even a team .500 scares me, it seems like they exploit the Raptors off the bounce to easily and they found out their weakness.
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Old 12-30-2008, 07:38 PM   #6
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Default Re: Surprisingly, a John Hollinger article that makes perfect sense.

Story of the Raptors season so far-

---------

*Raptors heading for a third straight playoff appearance with potentially by far their best team in years*

'Fire Sam Mitchell! Fire Sam Mitchell!'

*Raptors listen to the calls and fire Sam Mitchell, predictably replacing him with a nobody and going downhill fast*

'Now what?'

'Now we tank!'

-----------

Extremely disappointing so far. A roster with Bosh, Calderon and O'Neal should be tweakable to be a threat to anyone bar a superteam in the playoffs. That, presumably, is why Colagelo gambled on bringing O'Neal in. But despite that, we can the recent COTY and now what do we have to look forward to? Blowing it up? FFS.

We aren't even in a good position to do that. Tanking is an insult to the fans and a stupid, stupid move for a franchise whose goal must be to convince Bosh to stay a year and a half from now (not least because there's no guarantee, in fact no likelihood, that we'd be able to actually improve the roster by doing that.)

**** tanking. Colangelo- keep Bosh, keep Calderon, keep O'Neal unless someone decides to offer something spectacular for him, do not let Bargnani go unless you get something very good in return, immediately sack Triano if a top coach becomes available, put everyone else on sale and do everything you can right now to bring in the extra quality player(s) this team needs.

Difficult? Yeah, sure. But you're a two-time executive of the year. You're paid to make difficult moves. At the moment, the state of the roster under your leadership is nowhere near good enough.
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:00 PM   #7
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Default Re: Surprisingly, a John Hollinger article that makes perfect sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapsFan
So stay mediocre, probably miss the playoffs, so we can have another mediocre team 2 years from now? We aren't a lottery team....we certainly are looking like it now.

If you're not going to win, or aren't going in that direction, blow it up.
Who cares if you have Chris Bosh if you suck. I would rather cheer for a roster like OCK (young talent, cap room, picks etc) then a team like ours.

YOU DONT UNDERSTAND RapsFan ..... we are just one piece away ( Wing Player ) from being up there with the top teams in the east, Colangelo has to grow some balls and trade Bargnani for our wing and were set.

If not Bargnani than Kapono/Moon and all them, THIS IS WHY WE HIRED COLANGELO TO MAKE US BETTER AND GET THOSE SPECIAL DEALS LIKE HE DID IN PHX! ****ing Babcock could of signed Jose to a long term deal and trade 1 health injury risk players for each other ......
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: Surprisingly, a John Hollinger article that makes perfect sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keantona
Story of the Raptors season so far-

---------

*Raptors heading for a third straight playoff appearance with potentially by far their best team in years*

'Fire Sam Mitchell! Fire Sam Mitchell!'

*Raptors listen to the calls and fire Sam Mitchell, predictably replacing him with a nobody and going downhill fast*

'Now what?'

'Now we tank!'

-----------

Extremely disappointing so far. A roster with Bosh, Calderon and O'Neal should be tweakable to be a threat to anyone bar a superteam in the playoffs. That, presumably, is why Colagelo gambled on bringing O'Neal in. But despite that, we can the recent COTY and now what do we have to look forward to? Blowing it up? FFS.

We aren't even in a good position to do that. Tanking is an insult to the fans and a stupid, stupid move for a franchise whose goal must be to convince Bosh to stay a year and a half from now (not least because there's no guarantee, in fact no likelihood, that we'd be able to actually improve the roster by doing that.)

**** tanking. Colangelo- keep Bosh, keep Calderon, keep O'Neal unless someone decides to offer something spectacular for him, do not let Bargnani go unless you get something very good in return, immediately sack Triano if a top coach becomes available, put everyone else on sale and do everything you can right now to bring in the extra quality player(s) this team needs.

Difficult? Yeah, sure. But you're a two-time executive of the year. You're paid to make difficult moves. At the moment, the state of the roster under your leadership is nowhere near good enough.


That's what i'm saying! What is this man doing, and thinking!
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:03 PM   #9
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Default Re: Surprisingly, a John Hollinger article that makes perfect sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrcp3
YOU DONT UNDERSTAND RapsFan ..... we are just one piece away ( Wing Player ) from being up there with the top teams in the east, Colangelo has to grow some balls and trade Bargnani for our wing and were set.

I TOTALLY agree, it is obvious that we can blow teams away, including the strongs like NO, Orlando, Portland, even Celtics.. we just need to play one strong Wing, and don't play Bargnani.. coz he comes it and messes everything up
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:38 PM   #10
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Default Re: Surprisingly, a John Hollinger article that makes perfect sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrcp3
YOU DONT UNDERSTAND RapsFan ..... we are just one piece away ( Wing Player ) from being up there with the top teams in the east, Colangelo has to grow some balls and trade Bargnani for our wing and were set.

If not Bargnani than Kapono/Moon and all them, THIS IS WHY WE HIRED COLANGELO TO MAKE US BETTER AND GET THOSE SPECIAL DEALS LIKE HE DID IN PHX! ****ing Babcock could of signed Jose to a long term deal and trade 1 health injury risk players for each other ......


Well, unless that Wing player is a legit all star, then that's not the case, and since we have nothing to offer to get that type of player then I don't know where we go from here.
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:40 PM   #11
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Default Re: Surprisingly, a John Hollinger article that makes perfect sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekman
I TOTALLY agree, it is obvious that we can blow teams away, including the strongs like NO, Orlando, Portland, even Celtics.. we just need to play one strong Wing, and don't play Bargnani.. coz he comes it and messes everything up


Just think bosh is getting Doubled or having alittle trouble ..... Throw it to the " WING " he can create for him self and score the basketball OR OR OR create a open shot for bosh ...... like vs Portland and GSW we ran the offensive late in the 4th ALWAYS through bosh because that's all we had ........ couple of players that would fit great would be ....

Mike Miller ( BEST FIT, TOUGH, DEADLY 3 BALL, DRIVE THE LANE )
Gerald Wallace
John Salmons
Josh Howard
JR Smith
Travis Outlaw
Jamal Crawford ( Probably not available )

but ya all those players have been rumored to want or be traded ....... any of those players would help out team ALOT ...... and getting them would be possible i think with the right trades ......
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:28 PM   #12
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Default Re: Surprisingly, a John Hollinger article that makes perfect sense.

Just one wing player away...

and who will be the other winger?
where is the backup PG?
Where is the interior rotation? Graham, Hump and Voshkul? Who will play when JO is injured?

Players unhealthy (O'Neal, also Jawal) or getting old (Parker)
Players not playing as expected (Ukic, Solomon, Kapono)
Players not developing quickly enough (Bargnani)
A bunch of bench warmers (Humphries, Voshkul, Adams, Moon, some of the aformentioned)

Too many failures. The future looks cludy now.
If O'Neal were healthy, if Bargnani were consistent, if Ukic played well in the NBA, if Parker were younger, in Humphries were taller if... but that's not the case and I can't see the Raptors as a top team in the East.
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:44 PM   #13
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Default Re: Surprisingly, a John Hollinger article that makes perfect sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrcp3
we are just one piece away ( Wing Player ) from being up there with the top teams in the east, Colangelo has to grow some balls and trade Bargnani for our wing and were set.


That's what some said about Firing Sam. "Fire Sam! we are a move away from top team in the east"

Seriously, even if we aquired a wing, we will loose pieces to the team making us a more weaker defensive team. The problem to this team is defense. It starts at the pg spot. Calderon needs to step up or I want him out in Raptors.
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:04 PM   #14
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Default Re: Surprisingly, a John Hollinger article that makes perfect sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J000
That's what some said about Firing Sam. "Fire Sam! we are a move away from top team in the east"

Seriously, even if we aquired a wing, we will loose pieces to the team making us a more weaker defensive team. The problem to this team is defense. It starts at the pg spot. Calderon needs to step up or I want him out in Raptors.

Nobody said that about firing Sam... except maybe BC himself. Those of us who didn't support Mitchell (myself included) didn't feel like firing him was THE answer and that we'd suddenly become a top contender in the East. Adding a capable wing would make a world of difference.
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:10 PM   #15
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Default Re: Surprisingly, a John Hollinger article that makes perfect sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
Nobody said that about firing Sam... except maybe BC himself. Those of us who didn't support Mitchell (myself included) didn't feel like firing him was THE answer and that we'd suddenly become a top contender in the East. Adding a capable wing would make a world of difference.

Yup .....

Wing Player does for us .....

1. Becomes 2nd option for Bosh

2. Create shots for EVERYONE ELSE

3. Late in 4th Q can ISO and take man 1 v 1

4. Keep's Defensive honest because Bosh can throw it out to him

5. Can create easier shots for BOSH and O'Neil when he drives .......


Without Wing :

Bosh doesn't all the work, he is the only player who can create shots for everyone ........ Late in 4th Q ISO in the post is hard because the other teams defensive will just collapses and if shooters aren't making shots like vs GSW we are screwed .....
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