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Old 01-08-2009, 10:18 AM   #1
baller03
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Default Healthy Jermaine O'Neil Vs. The current play of Bargnani

What you guys think. Bargs is putting up some impressive numbers over the last 6-7 games when starting at C. I say when JO comes he comes off the bench. Keep the ball rolling with Bargs !
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Old 01-08-2009, 10:21 AM   #2
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Default Re: Healthy Jermaine O'Neil Vs. The current play of Bargnani

Obviously the raps have to start bargs and give him at least 35 mins/game. O'neil can come in off the bench and sub off Bosh and Bargs and get 20+ mins. With JO's age and knees this is the smartest route for the raps to keep him healthy and use him as a trading chip come next years trade deadline.
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:19 PM   #3
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Default Re: Healthy Jermaine O'Neil Vs. The current play of Bargnani

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodTrade
Obviously the raps have to start bargs and give him at least 35 mins/game. O'neil can come in off the bench and sub off Bosh and Bargs and get 20+ mins. With JO's age and knees this is the smartest route for the raps to keep him healthy and use him as a trading chip come next years trade deadline.

Agreed ...even this trading deadline if possible...lol He just hasn't worked out the way we hoped he's no longer mobile enough to run the floor in this offence. Time to trade him for an athletic wing and/or mobile 7fter.
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:42 PM   #4
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Default Re: Healthy Jermaine O'Neil Vs. The current play of Bargnani

I agree it makes sense, J.O was brought here mostly for the playoffs, games that his grit and experience really count for something. To spend J.O's time here and not develop Bargnani to the fullest would severly hurt the franchise in the long run. Bargs is a young, big man, not only do they take longer to develop, but they are capable of enduring a ton of minutes on the floor, without tiring. It should now be obvious he excells when given those minutes and mostly at the 5 position. This has to be the teams primary focus. Also to those who say he can't rebound, watch him closely, he blocks out opponents very effectively now, often two at a time. This often means you are not the one getting the rebound, but the one creating the opportunity for your teamate to do so. Not co-incidently the Raps have only been outrebounded once in the last 6 games. When is the last time we could say that about a Raps team! As you guys mentioned it may also conserve J.O for the playoffs.
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:53 PM   #5
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Default Re: Healthy Jermaine O'Neil Vs. The current play of Bargnani

Quote:
Originally Posted by antonaki1
I agree it makes sense, J.O was brought here mostly for the playoffs, games that his grit and experience really count for something. To spend J.O's time here and not develop Bargnani to the fullest would severly hurt the franchise in the long run. Bargs is a young, big man, not only do they take longer to develop, but they are capable of enduring a ton of minutes on the floor, without tiring. It should now be obvious he excells when given those minutes and mostly at the 5 position. This has to be the teams primary focus. Also to those who say he can't rebound, watch him closely, he blocks out opponents very effectively now, often two at a time. This often means you are not the one getting the rebound, but the one creating the opportunity for your teamate to do so. Not co-incidently the Raps have only been outrebounded once in the last 6 games. When is the last time we could say that about a Raps team! As you guys mentioned it may also conserve J.O for the playoffs.


He also pull the opposing bigman away from the basket, which allow the Raps to offensively rebound a lot easier.
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Old 01-08-2009, 02:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: Healthy Jermaine O'Neil Vs. The current play of Bargnani

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valliant13
He also pull the opposing bigman away from the basket, which allow the Raps to offensively rebound a lot easier.


From Smith's blog today, regarding Bargnani's rebounding woes:

"Yes, we all have noticed that Andrea Bargnani, as an individual, is more Neville Chamberlain than Wilt Chamberlain when it comes to rebounding a basketball.

But it is probably worth noting that, as bad as many think he is, in the five games heís started over the last week or so, Toronto has out-rebounded the opponent on three occasions and never been beaten by more than six on the boards.

Bargnaniís occupying his man, boxing out better, taking his man away from the basket and while those things donít show up in the boxscore, they help. "
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Old 01-08-2009, 02:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: Healthy Jermaine O'Neil Vs. The current play of Bargnani

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaininThrees
From Smith's blog today, regarding Bargnani's rebounding woes:

"Yes, we all have noticed that Andrea Bargnani, as an individual, is more Neville Chamberlain than Wilt Chamberlain when it comes to rebounding a basketball.

But it is probably worth noting that, as bad as many think he is, in the five games heís started over the last week or so, Toronto has out-rebounded the opponent on three occasions and never been beaten by more than six on the boards.

Bargnaniís occupying his man, boxing out better, taking his man away from the basket and while those things donít show up in the boxscore, they help. "

Interesting if you look at the rebound differential. Toronto is third worst. Orlando is 19th in the league yet they have one of the better records in the league. Toronto is not the third worst team in the league. Obviously there is more to winning than rebounding but that is not to say it is not important.

If Bargnani can improve his rebounding to 8 per game and their 2/3 positions can improve say by 1 or 2 a game that is huge. If as a team you give up 1.5 less offensive rebounds a game then that is theoretically 1.5 more defensive rebounds per game. The differential closes by 3. In terms of their 2/3 positions maybe a trade is the way the rebounding will improve. The one thing about having a guy who can slash is that effects the offensive rebounding numbers. If he penetrates then defensive players have to move and help out and if the slasher misses there is a better chance for a offensive rebound by a teammate. Just as it is a detriment if as a team you allow penetration there is a better chance of the opponent getting offensive rebounds.

Of course easier said than done. Rebounding is about getting in the correct position, it is about desire and concentrating on the man you need to box out. For some reason at times the Raptors seem to forget about getting into position and concentrate on keeping their man away from the boards.
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Old 01-08-2009, 03:33 PM   #8
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Default Re: Healthy Jermaine O'Neil Vs. The current play of Bargnani

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaininThrees
From Smith's blog today, regarding Bargnani's rebounding woes:

"Yes, we all have noticed that Andrea Bargnani, as an individual, is more Neville Chamberlain than Wilt Chamberlain when it comes to rebounding a basketball.

But it is probably worth noting that, as bad as many think he is, in the five games heís started over the last week or so, Toronto has out-rebounded the opponent on three occasions and never been beaten by more than six on the boards.

Bargnaniís occupying his man, boxing out better, taking his man away from the basket and while those things donít show up in the boxscore, they help. "
It should also be noted that he was rebounded by Nene/K-mart/Anderson, Yao Ming, Dwight Howard, and that Milwaukee and Washington were both missing their starting center. So that rebounding advantage had less to do with Bargnani than one might think.
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:06 PM   #9
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Default Re: Healthy Jermaine O'Neil Vs. The current play of Bargnani

This is interesting - found it in a Mike Ulmer blog.

He starts off talking about Bargnani's past 4-5 games, and then he asks the reason for the change, and the response is:
Quote:
Ask him the difference between his play when he starts and when he comes off the bench: “There is no difference, I’m just playing more minutes, he said.”
“It’s more easy (as a starter) to get confidence,” he said. “You make a mistake and you stay on the court.”

Bargnani has averaged 33 minutes as a starter, 21.8 as a sub. In those 12 extra minutes, he has averaged an additional 6.7 points.

He shoots better as a starter, .455 to .410. His three-point-shooting (.452, .351) improves radically when he starts. Even his free throw shooting (.913 as a starter, .829 as a sub) changes dramatically when he is in the starting lineup.

Then, he goes on to say this:
Quote:
O’Neal will not be ready but when he does return, Bargnani expects to be relegated back to the bench.

“J.O. is a great player, for sure he’s going to start,” he said. “The second thing is it’s not my job to worry about these things.”

In fact, the player least impressed with Andrea Bargnani seems to be Andrea Bargnani.

“It’s just five games,” he said. “I’m happy we won three out of four. I’m very happy about that.”

I remember Calderon saying something similar about TJ Ford and look how that turned out.
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:20 PM   #10
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Default Re: Healthy Jermaine O'Neil Vs. The current play of Bargnani

omg....its TJ vs Jose all over again

I hope the media doesn't make a big deal out of this.....
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:30 PM   #11
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Default Re: Healthy Jermaine O'Neil Vs. The current play of Bargnani

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beebo
omg....its TJ vs Jose all over again

I hope the media doesn't make a big deal out of this.....
Oh you know it's gonna be a hot topic.. especially if Bargnani starts slumping again.
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Old 01-08-2009, 10:06 PM   #12
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Default Re: Healthy Jermaine O'Neil Vs. The current play of Bargnani

Bargnani needs to rebound better. He's playing very well offensively and is boxing out for the most part, but sometimes you just gotta get the ball especially since our wings are inept of boxing out their man...
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:41 PM   #13
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Default Re: Healthy Jermaine O'Neil Vs. The current play of Bargnani

Coheed and Camrbia is an awesome band. Listen to them.



I'm currently not interested in debating anything to do with JO or Bargnani.


Seriously though, Coheed and Cambria...
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Old 01-09-2009, 03:44 PM   #14
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Default Re: Healthy Jermaine O'Neil Vs. The current play of Bargnani

Overall JO. Offense as of right now? I'll go with Bargnani simply because he is shooting lights out, like lights out..
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Old 01-09-2009, 04:01 PM   #15
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Default Re: Healthy Jermaine O'Neil Vs. The current play of Bargnani

lol how long can Bargnani keep up shooting 5/6, 4/5, etc. from three though?
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