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Old 01-13-2009, 10:56 PM   #1
baller1523
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Default Raps as the 8th seed?

every year there are certain teams that other teams can't beat or the game always goto the wire. some teams have have other teams games on check

for example when GSW beat the MAVS in the playoffs

Since Boston aquired Ray Allen and KG everytime the played the raps the games have been pretty close.

If the raps make the playoffs do u think they can compete with celtics rather then the Magics or the CAVS
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:58 PM   #2
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Default Re: Raps as the 8th seed?

Vs Boston or Cleveland? Sweep.
Vs Orlando? Lose 4-1.

How often does an 8 beat a 1? It's possible but not likely. At this point, I'm rooting for the lottery to get some much needed talent on this team.
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:00 PM   #3
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Default Re: Raps as the 8th seed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by baller1523
every year there are certain teams that other teams can't beat or the game always goto the wire. some teams have have other teams games on check

for example when GSW beat the MAVS in the playoffs

Since Boston aquired Ray Allen and KG everytime the played the raps the games have been pretty close.

If the raps make the playoffs do u think they can compete with celtics rather then the Magics or the CAVS

We compete but we cannot hold leads in the 4th and it usually ends in a loss. That's what separates the good teams from mediocre ones. Other team's wing players just bury us late in games. (Pierce, Allen, Lebron.. even Turkoglu and Lewis)
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:03 PM   #4
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Default Re: Raps as the 8th seed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Vs Boston or Cleveland? Sweep.
Vs Orlando? Lose 4-1.

How often does an 8 beat a 1? It's possible but not likely. At this point, I'm rooting for the lottery to get some much needed talent on this team.

If we don't get Griffin or Harden (Which we won't), then what's the point. The draft isn't exactly very strong this year. How can you root for your team to lose? That's just brutal. I'd rather package some players with those picks and get some higher quality talent on the team to be competitive NOW. Not in 4-5 years when Bosh is long gone and we have nobody but young inconsistent talent.
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: Raps as the 8th seed?

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Originally Posted by Toni
If we don't get Griffin or Harden (Which we won't), then what's the point. The draft isn't exactly very strong this year. How can you root for your team to lose? That's just brutal. I'd rather package some players with those picks and get some higher quality talent on the team to be competitive NOW. Not in 4-5 years when Bosh is long gone and we have nobody but young inconsistent talent.
What's the point of making the playoffs and being destroyed quickly in the 1st round? I'd rather have a pick that's a couple slots higher. Give me a #10 pick over a #15 pick and a 1st round exit any day.

Not only does it increase the Raptors chances of getting a good player in the draft but also increases the value of the pick in any trades. And exactly what players are you going to package with the pick to get a legit long-term piece? The Raptors aren't very deep when it comes to trade assets.
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:09 PM   #6
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Default Re: Raps as the 8th seed?

I don't see it as rooting for your team to lose, it's more of a rooting for them to improve. The way I see it, especially with this Raptors team, things are going to get worse before they get better, it's almost inevitable. We don't have enough trading pieces to make a huge deal that would significantly improve our roster. I'm willing to watch the Raptors lose for a while if it means good draft picks, and add to that the millions of dollars that come off the books once JO expires? Maybe two years in the lottery and some free agent signings is our best bet.
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:11 PM   #7
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Default Re: Raps as the 8th seed?

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Originally Posted by Chamberlain
I don't see it as rooting for your team to lose, it's more of a rooting for them to improve. The way I see it, especially with this Raptors team, things are going to get worse before they get better, it's almost inevitable. We don't have enough trading pieces to make a huge deal that would significantly improve our roster. I'm willing to watch the Raptors lose for a while if it means good draft picks, and add to that the millions of dollars that come off the books once JO expires? Maybe two years in the lottery and some free agent signings is our best bet.

Yes I can totally see where both of you are coming from. But I really don't want to watch this team be a cellar dwellar again. I don't really want to wait another 2 years to be competitive again. Waiting those 2 years and being in the lottery also guarantees Bosh to leave as well IMO.
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: Raps as the 8th seed?

You have a point about Bosh, but the fact remains, we don't have the right pieces to make a good trade.

And just to clarify, I don't WANT the Raptors to keep losing games and fail, but I'm saying it seems like the way this team is going, and even though the losing sucks, most, if not all, teams have to go through the losing period at some time.
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: Raps as the 8th seed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
What's the point of making the playoffs and being destroyed quickly in the 1st round? I'd rather have a pick that's a couple slots higher. Give me a #10 pick over a #15 pick and a 1st round exit any day.

Not only does it increase the Raptors chances of getting a good player in the draft but also increases the value of the pick in any trades. And exactly what players are you going to package with the pick to get a legit long-term piece? The Raptors aren't very deep when it comes to trade assets.


This is where the Raps are in a hard spot. IMO, a #10 pick is as valuable as a #15, as any of the guys you get at that either of those spots will not be good enough to impact your team in the near future, and often become role players. It's an interchangeable pick. All of the high-end and talent is gone. Obviously there are some are diamonds on the rough, but that's the odd few. This team has enough mid-level talent and role players. This team isn't bad enough to be a high lottery team, but they're not good enough to get out of the first round. It's some kind of NBA dead zone (does the team have a first round pick this year?), and in my mind there's no point in rooting for the team to lose, other than to be negative and contrarian.

IMO, this team has to improve externally through a trade, whether it be throughout the year, or in the off season. I admit this will be difficult given the team's lack of tradeable assets, but it's the only way I see it happening. A draft pick won't cut it. Either way, I think we're stuck this year with a team destined for 7-8th place, and first round exit. Might as well root for wins, the continued development of guys like Bargnani and Ukic, and maybe some defensive improvement from everyone's favourite Spaniard.

Just my opinion.
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: Raps as the 8th seed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni
If we don't get Griffin or Harden (Which we won't), then what's the point. The draft isn't exactly very strong this year. How can you root for your team to lose? That's just brutal. I'd rather package some players with those picks and get some higher quality talent on the team to be competitive NOW. Not in 4-5 years when Bosh is long gone and we have nobody but young inconsistent talent.


That's my point exactly.
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:22 PM   #11
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Default Re: Raps as the 8th seed?

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IMO, a #10 pick is as valuable as a #15, as any of the guys you get at that either of those spots will not be good enough to impact your team in the near future, and often become role players. It's an interchangeable pick.
It's close but I don't necessarily agree. I'd be willing to bet that there have been more impact players chosen at spots 10-14 than 15+. There are steals out there every draft but just by common sense, you'll have more players available to you at pick #10. It all comes down to the GM making the right choice.

I just think the Raptors would benefit more from a higher pick than a 1st round slaughter. What I care the most about is for the Raptors to one day (and hopefully soon) have a chance at being a GREAT team. One that can contend for the East and possible the title. Great players like Bosh aren't exactly an easy and common thing to acquire. The Raptors need to get something going while he's here. I do believe he will re-sign in 2010 but you can expect trade demands soon after if the Raptors are still a "1st round exit at best" team.
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:26 PM   #12
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Default Re: Raps as the 8th seed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
It's close but I don't necessarily agree. I'd be willing to bet that there have been more impact players chosen at spots 10-14 than 15+. There are steals out there every draft but just by common sense, you'll have more players available to you at pick #10. It all comes down to the GM making the right choice.


Just to add to this point, we see every year it seems that some players get overlooked from the 4-9 spot and those picks are used on "potential" players (Hoffa?!) that never really pan out. That leaves some other people between 10-15 (Brook Lopez, Al Thornton, Thaddeus Young, etc.) who slip through no fault of their own. Those are the players that the Raptors could take advantage of if other teams scoop up these busts in the lottery.
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:26 PM   #13
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Default Re: Raps as the 8th seed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaininThrees
This is where the Raps are in a hard spot. IMO, a #10 pick is as valuable as a #15, as any of the guys you get at that either of those spots will not be good enough to impact your team in the near future, and often become role players. It's an interchangeable pick. All of the high-end and talent is gone. Obviously there are some are diamonds on the rough, but that's the odd few. This team has enough mid-level talent and role players. This team isn't bad enough to be a high lottery team, but they're not good enough to get out of the first round. It's some kind of NBA dead zone (does the team have a first round pick this year?), and in my mind there's no point in rooting for the team to lose, other than to be negative and contrarian.

IMO, this team has to improve externally through a trade, whether it be throughout the year, or in the off season. I admit this will be difficult given the team's lack of tradeable assets, but it's the only way I see it happening. A draft pick won't cut it. Either way, I think we're stuck this year with a team destined for 7-8th place, and first round exit. Might as well root for wins, the continued development of guys like Bargnani and Ukic, and maybe some defensive improvement from everyone's favourite Spaniard.

Just my opinion.

I agree that we're in the deadzone and probably won't improve much with the #10-15 role players that will come out of those draft spots. A trade is necessary, and at this point I'm willing to give up Calderon and O'Neal for shorter contracts or better talent (Package with a Pick(s)). Pretty much everyone but Bosh, Bargnani and Ukic should be dealt or attempted to be dealt this season for us to be competitive sooner in 2009, therefore keeping Bosh in town. I believe that the source of all our problems is O'Neal's contract. We're paying a guy half of our team's payroll to sit at home with fluid in his knee while we have few good players and a bunch of D-Leaguers basically because we do not have any money left to spend on free agents or cap space to make trades. Trade O'Neal for Marbury and tank the season. Marbury walks after this year and we save 23M in cap room for next year. If this happens, we will probably get a high draft pick anyways assuming we actually keep that draft pick. Or it goes the other way, and Marbury returns to form making Jose expendible to trade for a wing and we can re-sign Starbury to a much cheaper contract this summer. Nobody ever agrees with my scenarios but we really need to rid ourselves of JO's contract. That is our first step of getting out of this mediocrity for the 2009 season.

Last edited by Toni : 01-13-2009 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:26 PM   #14
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Default Re: Raps as the 8th seed?

I think if we start losing games this year than Bosh will probally leave.
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:31 PM   #15
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Default Re: Raps as the 8th seed?

START losing games? With this roster I can't see the Raptors doing any worse. The roster isn't great by any means, but it should definitely be a team seeded 6-8, and it looks like (although this mini-streak gives us hope) were going to finish on the outside looking in.

As much as it would hurt, we can't worry too much about if Bosh leaves or not right now. We have to take the necessary steps to ensure the future success of the franchise, assuming Bosh is going to be in a Raptor uniform. If he leaves, it's just another unfortunate setback that the staff is going to have to deal with.
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