Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > Off the Court Lounge

Off the Court Lounge Basketball fans talk about everything EXCEPT basketball here

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-20-2009, 11:19 AM   #1
Sanity
I know from experience
 
Sanity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,838
Sanity has a near all-star reputation hereSanity has a near all-star reputation hereSanity has a near all-star reputation hereSanity has a near all-star reputation hereSanity has a near all-star reputation hereSanity has a near all-star reputation here
Default Debunking the myths of Columbine, 10 years later

Quote:
What do you remember about April 20, 1999?

If you recall that two unpopular teenage boys from the Trench Coat Mafia sought revenge against the jocks by shooting up Columbine High School, you're wrong.

But you're not alone.

Ten years after the massacre in Littleton, Colorado, there's still a collective memory of two Goth-obsessed loners, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, who went on a shooting rampage and killed 12 of their classmates and a teacher, injured 23 others and then turned their guns on themselves.

Journalist and author Dave Cullen was one of the first to take on what he calls the myths of Columbine. He kept at it for a decade, challenging what the media and law enforcement officials reported.

"Kids had never been attacked in this kind of way until Columbine," he recently told CNN. "I just had to find out what happened to those kids."

Cullen's book,"Columbine," was released this month -- just in time for today's 10th anniversary of the shooting at the Colorado high school. While tackling popular misconceptions, Cullen also gives a riveting account of what happened that day and how the survivors view the event that marked their lives forever.

Cullen concluded that the killers weren't part of the Trench Coat Mafia, that they weren't bullied by other students and that they didn't target popular jocks, African-Americans or any other group. A school shooting wasn't their initial intent, he said. They wanted to bomb their school in an attack they hoped would make them more infamous than Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh.

The Columbine tragedy left a lasting mark on many Americans, largely because of the media's around-the-clock coverage in the days and weeks following the shooting. Columbine was named the top news story of 1999 with nearly 70 percent of Americans saying they "followed [Columbine] very closely," according to a Pew Research Center study.

When media coverage faded, reporters and investigators soon learned that some of the initial reports were wrong. Cullen writes about the misperceptions: "Facts rush in, the fog lifts, an accurate picture solidifies. The public accepts this, but the final portrait is the farthest from the truth."

Officials at the Jefferson County Sheriff's office agreed that the Trench Coat Mafia, among other myths, were false. Lead investigator Kate Battan said the 10-year anniversary offers a chance to clear up the misconceptions.

"It was the first big event where cell phones were around, and I had witnesses giving information to the media before I even got to it," she said. "A lot of that information was wrong."

For example, many in the media initially reported that 17-year-old Cassie Bernall, a Christian, answered "yes" when asked if she believed in God before she was shot to death. She became a poster child for the Evangelical movement after her death. But investigators and student witnesses later told Cullen that it was another student, Valeen Schnurr, who avowed her belief in God as she was shot. Schnurr survived.

Cullen's first book reading was in Denver, Colorado, a few weeks ago. He said most of the 150 guests, despite their close proximity to Littleton and the shootings, still believed that Harris and Klebold targeted certain classmates, among many other misperceptions.

Today, after carefully combing through the boy's diaries, school assignments and police documents, journalists and investigators agree there is no evidence the killers singled out the jocks in a hit list. In fact, their victims varied in race, popularity, religion and age.

Cullen said the myths were so widely reported that they were hard to take back later.

"You would have to go through a lot of corrections," Cullen said. "You would need to have something blockbuster to shake them [the public] up and say 'Everything you know about Columbine, let it go.'"

Psychologists who study memory say people tend to remember first impressions. In the case of Columbine, what the public first saw and heard in the news tended to stick with them.

Professor Elizabeth Loftus at the University of California-Irvine, who specializes in memory, said myths continue to be validated when people start talking with others about an event. Once memories are embedded, people resist changing their minds, experts say.

"Memories often fade and get more distorted as time passes," Loftus said

Five months after Columbine, Cullen wrote an article published on Salon.com revealing that most members of a group dubbed the Trench Coat Mafia had graduated years earlier.

The Trench Coat Mafia was a nonviolent school group of computer gamers established a few years before the shooting, Cullen said. They feuded with the jocks and wore black trench coats. Harris and Klebold were not members, Cullen concluded after talking to students at the school and analyzing police documents. Neither boy appeared in the Trench Coat Mafia's yearbook group photo in 1998.

The two killers were far from normal teens. Harris was a psychopath and Klebold battled depression, according to psychologists cited in the book. Even so, they also weren't the extreme social outcasts and loners depicted in the early days of media coverage.

Records released later by the Jefferson County Sheriff's office showed that Harris and Klebold had their own circle of friends. Klebold took a date to the prom, riding with a dozen friends in a limo, just days before the shooting.

"I don't believe bullying caused Columbine," Jeff Kass, who covered the story for the Rocky Mountain News, told CNN. "My key reason for that is they never mentioned it in their diaries."

After a decade of research, including hundreds of interviews and relentless requests for evidence and documents, Kass also released a book this month called "Columbine: A True Crime Story." It provides comprehensive profiles of the killers and their motives.

Kass was able to get Klebold's college application essay through public records requests. The essay indicated he was a complex teen, who acknowledged hanging with the wrong crowd during his sophomore and junior years.

Cullen, the original Columbine debunker, theorizes that the public was afraid to believe Harris and Klebold weren't total outcasts. By identifying them as goth loners who were "weird" or "oddballs," it was easier to set them apart from other students and for schools to distinguish future potential shooters, he said.

"The bombs were inconsistent with what we remember," Cullen said. "We dropped the one that was true and kept the myth."

Kirsten Kreiling, president of the Columbine Memorial Foundation, said she believed the initial reports that the killers were in the Trench Coat Mafia and targeted jocks. So did many other people in the community. Ten years later, Kreiling, who has diligently kept up with news reports on Columbine, knows those initial reports were false.
advertisement

She realizes many people still accept the myths and hopes the truth of what happened at Columbine will some day replace the popular misconceptions.

"Understanding what happened can help us try to prevent these things from happening again in the future," she said. "If you don't understand history, you are doomed to repeat it."

Link

Its amazing how many times the story has changed. The blame was placed on Manson, South Park, bullying, Megadeath, The Trench Coat Mafia and many other things. Maybe we can come together and understand some people have mental problems and need help at the first sign of showing it. That way massacres like this can maybe be prevented.
Sanity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 11:33 AM   #2
Randy
NBA sixth man of the year
 
Randy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,857
Randy is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRandy is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRandy is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRandy is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRandy is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRandy is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRandy is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRandy is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRandy is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Debunking the myths of Columbine, 10 years later

Ah yes, the updated, "real" motivation and mission of two sick individuals should take priority over the memory of the kids and teachers that were murdered while GOING TO FUCKING SCHOOL. Fuck outta here with bullshit article.
Randy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 11:46 AM   #3
boozehound
An uglier Lamar Doom
 
boozehound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 24,104
boozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Debunking the myths of Columbine, 10 years later

that article basically says nothing. so, they had a hit list of students, but it wasnt just jocks and blacks. so what? they specifically targeted people they had beef with.

Im sure they were picked on, all kids like that are at the very least passively picked on (excluded from ****, etc). this article seems like a promotional excerpt to sell that douche's book.

so they werent TCM, but maybe they looked up to them? Since it no longer was active while they were students. regardless, all this **** is nitpicky little crap that changes nothing about the event.
boozehound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 11:54 AM   #4
Sanity
I know from experience
 
Sanity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,838
Sanity has a near all-star reputation hereSanity has a near all-star reputation hereSanity has a near all-star reputation hereSanity has a near all-star reputation hereSanity has a near all-star reputation hereSanity has a near all-star reputation here
Default Re: Debunking the myths of Columbine, 10 years later

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
Ah yes, the updated, "real" motivation and mission of two sick individuals should take priority over the memory of the kids and teachers that were murdered while GOING TO FUCKING SCHOOL. Fuck outta here with bullshit article.

The point is these 2 idiots had problems that weren't addressed early on. Because of this lives were eventually taken and instead of addressing the issue everyone started pointing fingers. Things like these could possibly be prevented in the future. The 2 individuals are just examples of issue at at hand
Sanity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 12:17 PM   #5
boozehound
An uglier Lamar Doom
 
boozehound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 24,104
boozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableboozehound is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Debunking the myths of Columbine, 10 years later

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanity
The point is these 2 idiots had problems that weren't addressed early on. Because of this lives were eventually taken and instead of addressing the issue everyone started pointing fingers. Things like these could possibly be prevented in the future. The 2 individuals are just examples of issue at at hand
i agree with this as well as your OP statement. I just think this article doesnt really address that, but is more a "want the inside scoop? read the book" kind of BS promotional news you see all the time these days. who wants to bet that the newspaper and book publisher are owned by the same media conglomerate? Just like the american POWs in Columbia who wrote a book and then went on the air all over their conglomerates media fronts to promote it. except it was presented as news, not an ad.


as to detecting this, its possible, but I dont think anything is likely to change. many people are distant or socially limited but not all of them have the potential to do this. are you suggesting we have some sort of testing in the school system? What about personal freedom (arent you a libretarian?)? More big government mandates on the local tax burden.
boozehound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 12:25 PM   #6
Bush4Ever
Local High School Star
 
Bush4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,074
Bush4Ever has decent reputation
Default Re: Debunking the myths of Columbine, 10 years later

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanity
The point is these 2 idiots had problems that weren't addressed early on. Because of this lives were eventually taken and instead of addressing the issue everyone started pointing fingers. Things like these could possibly be prevented in the future. The 2 individuals are just examples of issue at at hand

Stopping relatively random acts of violence on a massive scale is virtually impossible without severely restricting our personal freedoms.
Bush4Ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 01:46 PM   #7
johndeeregreen
Oh yeah, Mitch Kramer?
 
johndeeregreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,599
johndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Debunking the myths of Columbine, 10 years later

Stop giving those two little fucks any attention. I'm doing my best to let them fade into obscurity.
johndeeregreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 04:36 PM   #8
RainierBeachPoet
NEVER forget da SONICS
 
RainierBeachPoet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: seattle
Posts: 6,877
RainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRainierBeachPoet is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Debunking the myths of Columbine, 10 years later

it speaks to tendency of members of our society to want to either make heroes or to demonize people into black and white little boxes and our collectively inability to accept more complex information about people

it is the reason we have the pat tillman situation as well as the death penalty among others.


i like the point about how it is our first impression that get imbedded into our brains instead of the facts
RainierBeachPoet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 04:37 PM   #9
MarloStanfield
My Name Is My Name
 
MarloStanfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,607
MarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Debunking the myths of Columbine, 10 years later

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
Ah yes, the updated, "real" motivation and mission of two sick individuals should take priority over the memory of the kids and teachers that were murdered while GOING TO FUCKING SCHOOL. Fuck outta here with bullshit article.
trust sanity to always post some garbage right wing rhetoric. pretty predictable.
MarloStanfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 05:03 PM   #10
Sanity
I know from experience
 
Sanity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,838
Sanity has a near all-star reputation hereSanity has a near all-star reputation hereSanity has a near all-star reputation hereSanity has a near all-star reputation hereSanity has a near all-star reputation hereSanity has a near all-star reputation here
Default Re: Debunking the myths of Columbine, 10 years later

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarloStanfield
trust sanity to always post some garbage right wing rhetoric. pretty predictable.

Its anti Right-wing moron. Stick to your tranny planet
Sanity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 05:32 PM   #11
johndeeregreen
Oh yeah, Mitch Kramer?
 
johndeeregreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,599
johndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Debunking the myths of Columbine, 10 years later

I've been reading through this crap in this thread and I have one last thing to say:

Fuck that garbage. I think we've all been picked on in our life. What's more, there are a LOT of kids that were probably treated worse than those two pansies and the thought of ordering a couple scatterguns and blowing away a bunch of kids never crossed their minds. Fuck those kids and fuck the apologists.
johndeeregreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 05:37 PM   #12
InspiredLebowski
Roy Hibbert Super Star
 
InspiredLebowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Birthplace of basketball
Posts: 26,274
InspiredLebowski is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableInspiredLebowski is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableInspiredLebowski is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableInspiredLebowski is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableInspiredLebowski is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableInspiredLebowski is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableInspiredLebowski is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableInspiredLebowski is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableInspiredLebowski is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableInspiredLebowski is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableInspiredLebowski is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Debunking the myths of Columbine, 10 years later

I know it's in the name of the almighty dollar and taking advantage of our meddlesome nature, but do they really think dragging out the memory of those pieces of garbage is going to do anything but encourage your next mass murderer?
InspiredLebowski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 05:41 PM   #13
johndeeregreen
Oh yeah, Mitch Kramer?
 
johndeeregreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,599
johndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Debunking the myths of Columbine, 10 years later

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspiredLebowski
I know it's in the name of the almighty dollar and taking advantage of our meddlesome nature, but do they really think dragging out the memory of those pieces of garbage is going to do anything but encourage your next mass murderer?
That's exactly the problem.

Even when it happened, more attention was focused to the "why did these kids do it?" as opposed to actual sympathy for the victims and their families. The fact that the nat'l media pretty much put in their bid to make these psychotics seem like good kids that wandered off the right path and we should all be accepting and forgiving is a f'ing joke.
johndeeregreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 06:06 PM   #14
Sanity
I know from experience
 
Sanity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,838
Sanity has a near all-star reputation hereSanity has a near all-star reputation hereSanity has a near all-star reputation hereSanity has a near all-star reputation hereSanity has a near all-star reputation hereSanity has a near all-star reputation here
Default Re: Debunking the myths of Columbine, 10 years later

The whole point that I was making is that these guys were deeply disturbed. The media used the massacre to push their agendas. I'm saying stuff like this can possibly be prevented if we take severely depressed people seriously. I mean their parents found a video of these kids with guns basically saying what they planned to do. I would hope most parents would see that and step in immediately. Lives could have been saved, you guys are giving to much attention to the actual article. I'm going after the media and their garbage
Sanity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 06:11 PM   #15
MarloStanfield
My Name Is My Name
 
MarloStanfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,607
MarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMarloStanfield is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Debunking the myths of Columbine, 10 years later

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanity
The whole point that I was making is that these guys were deeply disturbed. The media used the massacre to push their agendas. I'm saying stuff like this can possibly be prevented if we take severely depressed people seriously. I mean their parents found a video of these kids with guns basically saying what they planned to do. I would hope most parents would see that and step in immediately. Lives could have been saved, you guys are giving to much attention to the actual article. I'm going after the media and their garbage
@ severely depressed people being dangerous.

What do you propose to do with all the "severely depressed dangerous people"?
MarloStanfield is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:18 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy