where do you rank jack johnson among the great black men
dude was getting arrested for smuggling white women across the border before any of the black heroes times. and plus he was heavyweight champ so he could batter mother ****ers
Re: where do you rank jack johnson among the great black men
I watched an HBO special on Joe Louis...amazing watch, he was much more of an icon for black people than both Jack Johnson (who white people hated) and Muhammadi Ali (who he hated because he viewed the Black Panthers and all that as useless violence)....
Joe Louis was hated by white people at the begining of his career, but when he boxed that guy from Germany (forget his name, RBA would know) he became a hero in the United States to everyone, black or white...
Joe Louis may have been the first black athlete that was idolized by white people everywhere...
I may be wrong about this but I think Hitler himself even attended some of his fights before the war got serious...
Joe Louis was a true American Icon when we needed one the most...
from what I know about Jack he flawnted his money in front of everyone and went after white women and was in a way hated by both whites and blacks...
I think he went broke and things turned bad for him after a while...
Re: where do you rank jack johnson among the great black men
If you rank by acheivment and accomplishment then being the first black heavyweight champion is pretty historical could be compared to Jackie crossing the barrier.
If you rank on achievement and affluence, Jack doesn't make the cut because he went for notoriety to the point where he lost respect.
Quote:
Once, when he was pulled over for a $50 speeding ticket (a large sum at the time), he gave the officer a $100 bill, telling him to keep the change as he was going to make his return trip at the same speed.
Re: where do you rank jack johnson among the great black men
Joe louis was a robot working through the poor white contenders, and occasionally have bigtimer trouble with them. schmeling landed the right hand at will. Beating up aryans was cool but jack johnsons social implications make him MUCH more interesting to me
I don't get a vibe that joe louis cared about anything other then what his handlers put in front of him to be honest. Just don't like that guy. He was before his time but anyone sonny liston and on blows him out ion the first or second round. Beyond his time punching + no chin + no defense = blow outs
Re: where do you rank jack johnson among the great black men
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kute
Joe louis was a robot working through the poor white contenders, and occasionally have bigtimer trouble with them. schmeling landed the right hand at will. Beating up aryans was cool but jack johnsons social implications make him MUCH more interesting to me
I don't get a vibe that joe louis cared about anything other then what his handlers put in front of him to be honest. Just don't like that guy. He was before his time but anyone sonny liston and on blows him out ion the first or second round. Beyond his time punching + no chin + no defense = blow outs
well as a fighter...whatever
as a "black icon"...Joe Louis = GOAT
Jack may have been the first, but the way that he conducted himself made things really bad for him...
Joe Louis probably ment even more than Jackie as far as crossing the race barrier goes...
Re: where do you rank jack johnson among the great black men
Quote:
Originally Posted by -primetime-
I watched an HBO special on Joe Louis...amazing watch, he was much more of an icon for black people than both Jack Johnson (who white people hated) and Muhammadi Ali (who he hated because he viewed the Black Panthers and all that as useless violence)....
Joe Louis was hated by white people at the begining of his career, but when he boxed that guy from Germany (forget his name, RBA would know) he became a hero in the United States to everyone, black or white...
Joe Louis may have been the first black athlete that was idolized by white people everywhere...
I may be wrong about this but I think Hitler himself even attended some of his fights before the war got serious...
Joe Louis was a true American Icon when we needed one the most...
from what I know about Jack he flawnted his money in front of everyone and went after white women and was in a way hated by both whites and blacks...
I think he went broke and things turned bad for him after a while...
lol i saw this same special one saturday morning as well..
Re: where do you rank jack johnson among the great black men
Quote:
Originally Posted by -primetime-
It was GOOD AS HELL wasn't it???
I now view Joe Louis as more of an "iconic figure" than even Ali was...
Look man, Joe Louis was just making money. That's all. He died a crackhead
Ali... wanted anything an everything. Ali can't stop in a fight. Doesn't matter the punches he was taking, or if he was underprepared, or just not his night... dude had no off button.
Re: where do you rank jack johnson among the great black men
Eh, Jack was alright. I don't think of him much when I think of great brothers. For the record I don't think much of Joe Louis. Neither of them rate high with me, but if I were to rank them against each other, I would put Jack ahead of him. Jack. I respect Jack's willingness to not back down, when it seemed as if every white person, excepting their women of course, seemed to want his head. Additional points awarded for inspiring both The Great White Hope, and The Great White Hype, two excellent movies, for completely different reasons. Additional points for providing an example to Barry Bonds on how to give the media the kissoff.
Oh yeah, **** Jack London.
Edit:I put him somewhere in the low 90s. Jack has his place, but he really did not work to advance the cause of the negro, but then again he did not have to do that if he did not want to. He was the prototype black rebel. You can see a lot of him in Huey Newton, Muhammad Ali, Jim Brown, Paul Mooney, and Cornel West.
Re: where do you rank jack johnson among the great black men
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kute
Look man, Joe Louis was just making money. That's all. He died a crackhead
Ali... wanted anything an everything. Ali can't stop in a fight. Doesn't matter the punches he was taking, or if he was underprepared, or just not his night... dude had no off button.
Tyson blows them both out.
That last sentence pretty much kills any credibility you may have had in evaluating fighters. If I see one more person compare Mike f#cking Tyson to the greatest boxers in the history of the sport, I'm going to puke.
Dasher,
It would have been really difficult for Johnson to make any headway as advancing black America in the 1910s. The guy faced the kind of racism that Jackie Robinson could only dream of. There were still public lynchings of blacks when Johnson was ruling the heavyweight division.
When the white man couldn't beat him with fists, they used the law. They got him on the Mann Act of transporting an underage girl across state lines for immoral purposes... A completely trumped up charge.
He didn't just beat his opponents in the ring... He completely embarrassed them... And taunted all-white crowds of 100,000+ in the process. This was a time when whites believed that they were superior to blacks in every aspect, including in athletic endeavors. It must have been quite a jolt to their egos to have a black man, not only beating up every white that stepped forward, but to pretty much toy with them.
That is why, for me, Johnson may be the most interesting sports figure of all-time. The common thinking is that he didn't do much to advance the black cause, but just showing whites, at that time, that they were not superior was a huge stepping stone.
I was always amazed that Johnson did what he did in the time that he did it and racist whites did not act violently. Johnson beat white people up, embarrassed them, openly dated white women (and married one), drove fast cars... Just was completely flamboyant and unapologetic. He was a fascinating character.
Joe Louis was a different kind of black icon that contributed in his own way in a different time. I don't think it is fair to compare the two simply because America was a different place in the 30s and 40s compared to the 1910s. By Louis' time, whites were getting used to the idea that a black man could compete against a white man and come out on top.
Re: where do you rank jack johnson among the great black men
I know the wheels fell off the tyson train pretty quick but he ko'd the greatest light heavyweight in 30 seconds, ko'd the former champ, and cleaned out the division making a half a dozen title defenses as the youngest heavyweight champ. he has a place amongst the great heavyweights and at 5'11 220 and inhumanly fast I think he has a pretty easy fight against the old ones. Come on in divisions where guys like Tony Galento and Dan Cockell were fighting... throw a guy like razor ruddock in with those old timers and he'd be a ****ing menace
where do you rank jack johnson among the great black men
