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Old 05-19-2009, 04:09 PM   #1
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Default Draft

Unless things change, the Sixers do not currently have a second round pick. I hope they remedy that and pick up a second rounder from someone - preferably for cash. Their first round pick is 17th. Who do you hope the Sixers get?

I think our biggest need at this point is at point guard (I for one do not want to see the 33 year old Andre Miller re-signed because of his declining defense, lack of shooting, advanced age, and poor chemistry with the current roster of Brand, Young and Iguodala as starters).

There likely will be 11 point guards taken in the first round. In all likelihood, guys like Rubio, Holiday and Jennings will be long gone. As the current projections stand, Curry, Maynor and Lawson will likely be gone as well, although it's possible that one or two might still be available at 17. Other prospective first round PGs include Flynn, Teague, Mills, Calathes, and Collison.

Personally, after Rubio and Holiday, I like Maynor and Calathes the best. Everyone on the list has warts - there are no Deron Williams, Chris Paul type prospects. However, several of these kids project to be decent NBA point guards.

I'm not a big fan of Teague, as I don't see him as an NBA point guard - he looks like a better version of Lou Williams - a third guard who can come off the bench, get his own shot, and put up points in a hurry.

I think Mills is a back up point guard who had a few nice games in the Olympics. He's fast, but he can't shoot and he's not a real point guard.

Flynn is one of those guys who has a lot of heart, but he has serious size limitations and he's not a great shooter.

I think Maynor will end up going higher than 17, although I'd probably prefer him to Calathes. Collison also seems like a kid who might end up being a decent pro - not unlike Mario Chalmers. He's not as big as Chalmers and he certainly lacks strength. However, he's faster end to end and is a far better shooter. He has a slow release, which will prevent him from getting good shots off the dribble, but he can be a good spot up shooter and solid perimeter defender who can execute the pick and roll.

I would also like to see the Sixers think outside the box a bit, buy a second round pick, and draft a kid from Europe - someone like Rudy Mbemba, Nando De Colo, or the kid I like the best - Sergio Llull from Real Madrid, and let them stay in Europe for a few seasons and see if we end up getting a steal.

Other guys I'd consider at 17 include Chase Budinger and BJ Mullens.

I'd also look at Lee Cummard if we buy a late second round pick. He's 24 and lacks athleticism,but he reminds me quite a bit of Kyle Korver, but with a better all around game. He doesn't have the quick release Korver does, but he's probably the best 3 point shooter in this draft.

Second round picks I'd consider to stash in Europe include Victor Claver and Vladimir Dasic at forward, and possibly Rodrigue Beaubois.

Finally, I don't think he gets drafted, but I'd invite Dionte Christmas to play for our Summer League team and see whether or not he has the game to be an NBA SG.
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:22 PM   #2
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Default Re: Draft

Interesting night with the lottery. Blake Griffin must be taking out every insurance known to man right now. Clippers now will have two starting power forwards and two starting centers. Camby has an expiring contract and will be easy to move. Zach Randolph? Not so much.

The first mock draft has the Sixers landing Maynor. Would love to see that, but still think he will end up going before 17.
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Old 05-20-2009, 01:27 PM   #3
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Default Re: Draft

Who knows who goes where. Drafts can be tricky. There is always a prospect that a team reaches for vs a prospect who slide. A PG prospect that you said will be long gone is Jrue Holliday. Most NBA draft sites have him around the Sixers range if not later. I dont think he will be gone but its possible come draft day he goes higher than most draft sites projected him.

Jay Bilas doesnt have him going high either. Said he is a top 20 talent but a work in progress much like Westbrook was/is. Think he has Jrue overall player rank at 15 or 16. Not sure. But a handful of PGs were rated over him by Bilas. A prospect that wasnt in his top 10 was B.Jennings.

Chase Budinger is slow as mollasses for a guy claimed to be so athletic. Not impressed by him at Zona. Never really stood out after his first year there. Very inconsistent.

PG and SG are two positions I'd key in on prospect wise. This draft has a bunch of guys on even levels i think. Not much seperating each of them.

Take PG for example

Jennings, Teague, Holliday, Maynor, Flynn, Lawson you can even add Curry

Same level imo...some are stronger scorers, stronger shooting, stronger playmakers. Eh

With no 2nd round pick Sixers really need to strike gold. If need be and guys are going like fast trade up and package a Willie Green or Reggie Evans with 17.
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Old 05-21-2009, 11:28 AM   #4
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Default Re: Draft

In fact, most websites, including RealGm, ESPN, *********, etc., have Holiday going in the top 8. You used Westbrook as an example of a similar player - he went 4th last year. If there is a PG out there other than Rubio who barring injury, is certain not to be there at 17, it's Holiday. RealGm has him going 4th. He probably won't go as high, nor should he - he's not as good a player or athlete as Westbrook, but his age and his tantalizing potential will ensure that he goes in the top 15 (baring injury) and I'm willing to bet you on that.

Budinger is certainly not slow, although he doesn't have great lateral movement. He is a great shooter, not a great player. If the Sixers are looking for a shooter, he's one of the top 3 shooters in this draft. How fast is Derrick Fisher and Sasha Vujacic for the Lakers? How fast is Wally World in Cleveland? How fast was Korver here? How fast is Kapono? He's not a point guard who sets the tempo and there is no expectation of landing a super star player at 17. If the Sixers are looking for a shooter, he'll be under consideration. He was a good player at Arizona, but he never really improved over his freshman season and expectations were perhaps too high. That doesn't mean that he won't be a productive NBA player. One thing you can't teach however, is heart, and there are questions about his desire and love of the game. That part is for the Sixers brass to decide through background checks, interviews, watching workouts, etc. Remember, questions about heart and desire is the reason Speights dropped to the Sixers last season.

You can't package Willie Green or Reggie Evans with a pick unless the intent is to get rid of the pick for nothing, in order for someone to take their contracts. They have negative net value in the NBA as role players with terrible, long term contracts over market value. We had to give up a first round pick last season just to get Minnesota to take a 24 year old, promising, recent first round pick on an expiring contract - Rodney Carney. You honestly think that you will be throwing in Willie Green or Reggie Evans and someone will not only take them off your hands, but let you move up in the draft? I doubt there is a team in the league who will take the 17th pick off our hands, along with Green or Evans in exchange for nothing, let alone allow us to move up.

As for PGs after Rubio and Holiday, you are right - none really stand out as great all around players. Jennings has the most upside and talent, but he struggled to play the point in Europe and struggled shooting. He is probably a year or two away from being able to contribute on the NBA level. Teague just doesn't look like a guy who can be a full time PG on the NBA level. He is a very good shooter off the dribble, but not very good spotting up, very turnover prone, plays little defense, and doesn't seem like a pure PG.

I don't like Curry or Flynn. Flynn looks like a spark plug back up PG to me. Tiny guys who can't shoot rarely have great success in the NBA. Curry lacks great athletic ability and just isn't a PG. He too seems like a kid who should be able to be a decent third guard off the bench - a designated shooter, but not a starting NBA PG. I think he drops on draft night.

Lawson and Collins have size issues. Lawson is the more talented player and is much stronger and more physical than Collins. He is also the more consistent shooter and the better pure PG. He is however listed at 5-11 and is likely closer to 5-9 or 5-10. Collins has a slow release and is a very weak 165 pounds. He doesn't seem outstanding, but he is a guy, who if he is capable of putting on 15 pounds of muscle without losing speed, can be a Mario Chalmers type of player in the NBA. As for Lawson, I think he goes before 17.

Collins, Maynor and Calathes stand out to me as the best fits for the Sixers. Maynor is a developing shooter and is a pure PG. He has good size, but needs to add a lot of strength. I have concerns about the competition he faced in college - sure he played great in a few big games, but it's a lot easier to save up for a big match up once every 15 games than to do it on a nightly basis like you do in the NBA. Calathes is still young, but he loves the game, has great size for the position, is a gifted passer, and a solid shooter (although maybe not yet from NBA range 3). He struggles on defense against quick guards, but again, so did Andre Miller.
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Old 05-21-2009, 02:56 PM   #5
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Default Re: Draft

Wasnt Lou Williams pretty decent with running the pick and roll with Speights...I think we should atleast give Lou a shot at being the starting point guard .
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Old 05-21-2009, 05:29 PM   #6
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Default Re: Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by SixersFan76
In fact, most websites, including RealGm, ESPN, *********, etc., have Holiday going in the top 8.

If you acknowledge realgm then why not nbadraft.net?

Draftexpress.com is a very good source.

cbssports has him at 12

ISH has him at 16

h00pz hipe.com (y instead of i but this board censors that site) has him at 18.

Yahoo has him going 18

Foxsports doesnt have him in thier top 14


I'm not seeing where he is projected top 8 here.

Quote:
You used Westbrook as an example of a similar player - he went 4th last year.


R.Westbrook didnt come out in a PG heavy draft. This draft is PG heavy.


Quote:
If there is a PG out there other than Rubio who barring injury, is certain not to be there at 17, it's Holiday.

Holliday could go higher than projected. Always possible in a draft. But i dont see where you are getting this projection of him being top 8. And this idea he will not be there at 17.

Quote:
RealGm has him going 4th.


meh at them.

Quote:
He probably won't go as high, nor should he - he's not as good a player or athlete as Westbrook, but his age and his tantalizing potential will ensure that he goes in the top 15 (baring injury) and I'm willing to bet you on that.


Betting draft spots after the top 3 prospects is risky business. Every draft a guy projected high falls and a guy projected low goes high. Draft full of surprises.

My argument is projection prior to draft. Where are you getting this idea he is going top 8 on your sources? The kid hasnt even hired an agent.

Ben Howland
What kind of feedback did you get from the general managers?
‘’That he was definitely a first round pick. It was wide – some would say 10 to 15, others would say 15 to 25. But a lot of that, you’re seeing who else is going in the draft, and so that changes on a regular basis. Jrue and his family elected to sign a sheet where they will get feedback from the NBA – they have a committee run by Stu Jackson that constantly is changing week to week based on who’s in. But the main thing is Jrue is going to work out for a number of teams and=2 0will get feedback to his family as to what they think. It’s a win-win. He will always have the option of coming back here to open arms, but if he elects


Jrue Holliday
Was there a deciding factor?
‘’No, and again, it’s not like I’m going to the NBA. I haven’t signed with an agent. It’s just testing the waters, to see what it’s going to be like at these camps, at these workouts, if I can handle the drills, which I’m positive that I can, and I feel really comfortable going in.


Quote:
Budinger is certainly not slow, although he doesn't have great lateral movement.


Hes about as fast as Kyle Korver. Yet Chase was supposed to be this super athlete. He's not slow as in the literal sense. Just not impressed with his speed and quickness given that its talked up a bit.

Quote:
He's not a point guard who sets the tempo and there is no expectation of landing a super star player at 17. If the Sixers are looking for a shooter, he'll be under consideration. He was a good player at Arizona, but he never really improved over his freshman season and expectations were perhaps too high. That doesn't mean that he won't be a productive NBA player. One thing you can't teach however, is heart, and there are questions about his desire and love of the game. That part is for the Sixers brass to decide through background checks, interviews, watching workouts, etc. Remember, questions about heart and desire is the reason Speights dropped to the Sixers last season.

He'll get a look but i got a list of prospects rated over him. Hopefully they are gone by time Chase is available.

Quote:
You can't package Willie Green or Reggie Evans with a pick unless the intent is to get rid of the pick for nothing, in order for someone to take their contracts. They have negative net value in the NBA as role players with terrible, long term contracts over market value.


The thing about this draft is picking at 17 isnt much different than 7,8,9. Might not need to move up to strike gold.

R.Evans has 2yrs worth $10mil
W.Green has 2yrs worth $8mil

Rough estimates. Terrible long contracts? Ok.

Quote:
We had to give up a first round pick last season just to get Minnesota to take a 24 year old, promising, recent first round pick on an expiring contract - Rodney Carney.

Philadelphia 76ers President and General Manager Ed Stefanski announced today that the team has traded Calvin Booth, Rodney Carney, cash considerations and the rights to a conditional first-round pick received from Utah (acquired from the Jazz last December) to the Minnesota Timberwolves in exchange for a protected second-round pick in 2010.

Deal was done so we could land Elton Brand.

Quote:
You honestly think that you will be throwing in Willie Green or Reggie Evans and someone will not only take them off your hands, but let you move up in the draft? I doubt there is a team in the league who will take the 17th pick off our hands, along with Green or Evans in exchange for nothing, let alone allow us to move up.

If a team ahead of us has thier prospect taken before they pick? They could not be impressed with whats left. Meaning they could get the guy they want at 17 instead of taking him at 14? But you get back a decent bench player? Might be appealing.

This draft is so on par after the top 3 prospects. You're not passing up the next Durant to move down. You are passing up a player you might still be able to land moving down while adding something.

Not saying it will happen. Not out of the realm of possibilities is all. But like i said Sixers may not even need to move up at 17 given the talent in this draft.


Quote:
Collins, Maynor and Calathes stand out to me as the best fits for the Sixers. Maynor is a developing shooter and is a pure PG. He has good size, but needs to add a lot of strength. I have concerns about the competition he faced in college - sure he played great in a few big games, but it's a lot easier to save up for a big match up once every 15 games than to do it on a nightly basis like you do in the NBA. Calathes is still young, but he loves the game, has great size for the position, is a gifted passer, and a solid shooter (although maybe not yet from NBA range 3). He struggles on defense against quick guards, but again, so did Andre Miller.

I'm sold on Eric Maynor. I was on the Flynn/Lawson wagon but now I'm on Maynors. Perfect fit and nice value at 17.
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Old 05-22-2009, 10:58 PM   #7
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Default Re: Draft

Green and Evans have negative value in the NBA. That's a stone cold fact. No one is absorbing their terrible contracts. They are guys who should be making the minimum on one year deals.

ESPN is the preeminent sports website. Hollinger and Chad Ford have the most respected draft threads as they have actual access to personnel and get invited to attend workouts. No one else has that access so their mock drafts are worthless - just like ours would be. Holiday will go in the lottery.

I like Calathes the best I think and Maynor the second best out of the guys expected to be there and it's close between the two. Would have to read more about the workouts.
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Old 05-23-2009, 12:19 PM   #8
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Default Re: Draft

espn is bogus no better than draftexpress. Whether Holliday goes lottery or not is up for debate. He could. But I'm not seeing where he is protected top 8. I think you overreacted to what realgm had or something.

And explain how Willie Green and Reggie Evans contracts are terrible.
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Old 05-23-2009, 02:10 PM   #9
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Default Re: Draft

Chad Ford isn't respected by anybody. He goes by what he hears more than what he sees. Even Bill Simmons thinks he's a joke. Remember when Darko was being hyped up by every fan out there? It was because they were reading Chad Ford's blogs. He also overrated Bargnani and Skitishvili (I'm not even going to bother looking up the spelling) as if they were the next big things. He has a love affair with foreign talent.

And even now he's only a part-timer at ESPN. It's not his full-time work. He's only a contributor these days.
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Old 05-23-2009, 04:37 PM   #10
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Default Re: Draft

Jonathon Givony from Draftexpress is the one whose opinion I respect the most with regards to scouting and NBA draft news.

As for the draft, it'll all depend on whether or not we let Andre Miller walk. If he does, we'll have plenty of options. I don't think we'll be able to land Jennings, Curry, Flynn, or Holiday so our options are:
Jeff Teague
Eric Maynor
Ty Lawson
Nick Calathes
Patrick Mills
Darren Collison

I like Teague the best but I'm not convinced he's a pure point guard, I wouldn't mind getting Lawson or Patty Mills either.

If we keep Miller, I think we look for a backup shooting guard/wing player. I like Chase Budinger and Terrence Williams best out this crop.
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Old 05-23-2009, 04:48 PM   #11
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Default Re: Draft

i want patrick mills.
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Old 05-24-2009, 07:59 PM   #12
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Default Re: Draft

Really good thread, the pg situation is for sure the interesting part of this draft- there are a lot of good posts in this thread and some good anylisis

I really believe holiday is a top 3-8 pick and don't see a way he gets past both gs and ny at 7 and 8-

I also think teague is much better than he is getting credit for- either #4 or 5 pg in this draft imo

as far as the little guys I like mills better than lawson and maybe flynn and thought mills was a good shooter
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Old 05-24-2009, 09:16 PM   #13
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Default Re: Draft

we could go on forever about this draft until it happens. lets be grateful it is point guard loaded. the sixers are usually solid in picking out players in the mid lottery as we have had a ton of experince of being mediocre enough to draft there time and time again it's the top ten territory we struggle with.

YES. we need a second rounder.
YES. we need a point guard.
lets just put some ol' faith into an alright drafting front office.

if i was stefanski i'd pay isiah thomas a consulting fee and ask him his honest opinion on draft day just to make sure we pick the best value available because 14 to 17 is no biggie in talent difference.

i have read somewhere that some gm said this was one of the worst drafts ever. so im not going to put to much weight or thought into this draft if we bomb the living shyt out of this pick. i'd feel better if we had a 2nd rounder or two.
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Old 05-24-2009, 09:34 PM   #14
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Default Re: Draft

not sure if it was mentioned but cross Calathes off our board, he's gonna play in Greece
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Old 05-24-2009, 11:49 PM   #15
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Default Re: Draft

ESPN's mock drafts are regularly better than anyone else's out there. Holiday is a lock to go in the lottery baring injury.

Green and Evans have terrible contracts. They have negative value. You couldn't get another team to take those two if you gave them a first round pick. They are more than one year and more than the minimum for guys who should be making the league minimum on a one year contract. Not a single team in the NBA would take them for nothing if you offered them. That's a stone cold fact - just like Holiday going in the lottery.

As for Chad Ford and Hollinger, we're not talking about their GM acumen - we're talking about their contacts and access to teams and players - their reporting is far better than anything else you'll find out there. Ford by the way is part time for a reason - he gets paid a whole lot of money to work with players on their games - it's not because he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Bargniani is going to be an all-star by the way and Darko Milicic went number 2 overall not because a writer on ESPN hyped him up, but because NBA GM's, including Joe Dumars - one of the best in the business, believed he would be a star. Ford was right to report Milicic will go top 3 when many others didn't know who the guy was.
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