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Old 02-21-2011, 10:57 PM   #1
bokes15
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Default The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

For Carmelo Anthony and Billups basically the Nuggets got:

Raymond Felton
Wilson Chandler
Gallinari
Mozgov
Eddy Curry (11M Expirer)
Knicks 1st round pick
2 second round picks via Golden State
3 million in cash considerations


For Bosh we got:
- reaquired our own 1st rounder which we gave to them initially
- got Miami's 1st rounder (which will be a very late 1st round pick)
- trade exception (which may or may not get used)

I was saying all along that we should've got a lot more out of Bosh. The situation should've been handled prior to the trade deadline rather than keeping him around all that time just to have someone to blame when we fail and having him walk for next to nothing. Denver RAPED NY's front office with that trade. That's what a good GM with a little bit of savvy and patience can do for you.

Last edited by bokes15 : 02-21-2011 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

Denver did very well...but they still are now going to suck. NY got the guy they wanted and now have big cap space to sign yet another guy they want. NY did very well also.

And I totally agree with the Bosh thing. Made no sense no to deal him at the deadline.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:07 PM   #3
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

Denver's Gm was BC's assistant in Toronto....................
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:08 PM   #4
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapsFan
Denver did very well...but they still are now going to suck. NY got the guy they wanted and now have big cap space to sign yet another guy they want. NY did very well also.

And I totally agree with the Bosh thing. Made no sense no to deal him at the deadline.
It doesn't matter if they suck. They got some solid young players + draft picks + cap space. They won that deal by a wide margin. NY on the other hand originally wanted to trade Chandler and keep Gallinari. Felton was off limits. And in the end they ended up giving up all 3 because they just wanted Melo that badly. Now i see them as being in Miami's situation with a talented 3 but not a lot of depth.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:13 PM   #5
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

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Originally Posted by bokes15
It doesn't matter if they suck. They got some solid young players + draft picks + cap space. They won that deal by a wide margin. NY on the other hand originally wanted to trade Chandler and keep Gallinari. Felton was off limits. And in the end they ended up giving up all 3 because they just wanted Melo that badly. Now i see them as being in Miami's situation with a talented 3 but not a lot of depth.


NY gave up a lot, but they are still in pretty good shape. Ability to add CP or Dwill in the offseason, regardless of depth, pretty good haul given where they came from. As for Denver, meh.....a bunch of solid guys I guess, not sure about the cap space, haven't look too deeply. Seems like one of those situations where you get a bunch of guys, all solid, warrant decent contracts, and then before you know it, you're over the cap and missing the playoffs and you best player is Danilo Gallinari. That is the ONLY reason I was happy to let Bosh just walk, but then we of course went on and gave away the contracts to Kleiza, Amir etc.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

Ok, I guess in some sense you could call it a win-win if you're looking beyond this season, but my point of the thread was that they got a lot more for Melo than we did for Bosh. And they handled it the right way.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:22 PM   #7
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

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Originally Posted by RapsFan
That is the ONLY reason I was happy to let Bosh just walk, but then we of course went on and gave away the contracts to Kleiza, Amir etc.



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Old 02-22-2011, 12:22 AM   #8
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

Chandler and Gallinari are solid but they both play the same position. The rest of the deal is quantity over quality for Denver. I'm honestly not that impressed. Hopefully Denver is smart enough to give Lawson a real shot and see what he has rather than playing Felton.

Not that I'm defending BC or anything, he's an awful GM. I just don't think Denver's haul is that impressive personnel-wise.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:49 AM   #9
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

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Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Chandler and Gallinari are solid but they both play the same position. The rest of the deal is quantity over quality for Denver. I'm honestly not that impressed. Hopefully Denver is smart enough to give Lawson a real shot and see what he has rather than playing Felton.

Not that I'm defending BC or anything, he's an awful GM. I just don't think Denver's haul is that impressive personnel-wise.

Chandler is small forward. Gallo is tall enough to play power forward. Toronto would do well to get these guys from Denver. Denver is looking to unload some of these players. Act now Toronto. They aren't stars but they are good pieces to put around Bargnani.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:55 AM   #10
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

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Chandler is small forward. Gallo is tall enough to play power forward. Toronto would do well to get these guys from Denver. Denver is looking to unload some of these players. Act now Toronto. They aren't stars but they are good pieces to put around Bargnani.
Being "tall enough" doesn't mean anything when you don't do anything required of that position. I'd take either Chandler or Gallianri at SF. Solid but unspectacular players. Neither will probably ever sniff an All-Star game.

Oh and you don't put pieces around Bargnani. Bargnani is one of the pieces you could look to put around a couple All-Stars.
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:30 AM   #11
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

Quote:
But he [Carmelo] could have quite easily given the Knicks considerably more leverage by being more transparent in his absolute reluctance to sign an extension with the Nets. The deal made by the Knicks isn't an outright bloodbath, but they are trading away considerably more than what would have been necessary otherwise.

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/article...x zz1Eh4HLWFY
This quote sums up what I think.
If I were a superstar in my last season of a contract I would have two things clear in my mind:
(1) My current team can trade my current contract, but they have no right at all to negotiate with my next contract.
(2) If I want to play for a contender, I have to look after my next team's interests, not my current team's.

Even if NY can get another superstar, they will be as depleted as my Miami was.
BUT, Chris Paul/DWilliams + Carmelo + Amare are not comparable at all to Wade + Lebron + Bosh. Lebron>>>Carmelo makes the difference.
Carmelo has screwed up his own future as a player. He won't ever play in the Finals in his prime.
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:59 AM   #12
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
Ok, I guess in some sense you could call it a win-win if you're looking beyond this season, but my point of the thread was that they got a lot more for Melo than we did for Bosh. And they handled it the right way.

That is a fair thing to say and an accurate point.

Though subject to "betting the farm on one guy to resign" or "moving before he screws you" debates.

Generally I like the job that BC has done. I know many disagree.

Bottom line is BC gambled all his eggs in resigning Bosh. The whole negotiating posture was "we can pay him more and we are commited to building a elite franchise around him". There was no plan B.

The Denver way is perhaps plan A1 or B1 depending on you point of view.

Ironically in Toronto BCs moves exactly mirrors the whole Vince Carter era here as well. CB4s mom didnt have free parking ; but elsewise it seems Bosh was being let into long term plans on player aquisition etc etc. We tried to surround him with his peeps (Jarret Jack) much as we catered to Vince.

Denvers way is maybe more comparable to the Pistons loosing their franchise player Grant Hill. Dumars took those pieces and made a 1 and done NBA championship team.

As of today Denver has pieces , Toronto has pieces, Cavs have pieces.

Be interesting to watch who emerges first.

Last edited by Jballer : 02-22-2011 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:05 AM   #13
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jballer
That is a fair thing to say and an accurate point.

Though subject to "betting the farm on one guy to resign" or "moving before he screws you" debates.

Generally I like the job that BC has done. I know many disagree.

Bottom line is BC gambled all his eggs in resigning Bosh. The whole negotiating posture was "we can pay him more and we are commited to building a elite franchise around him". There was no plan B.

The Denver way is perhaps plan A1 or B1 depending on you point of view.

Ironically in Toronto BCs moves exactly mirrors the whole Vince Carter era here as well. CB4s mom didnt have free parking ; but elsewise it seems Bosh was being let into long term plans on player aquisition etc etc. We tried to surround him with his peeps (Jarret Jack) much as we catered to Vince.

As of today Denver has pieces , Toronto has pieces, Cavs have pieces.

Be interesting to watch who emerges first.

The other thing to consider is that Melo was upfront and honest with Denver.
CB was not and neither was Lebron.

But I still hold BC accountable.
As I have said many times, including last year, we should have traded cb because we only had at best a 50/50 shot at signing him and those are not good odds.

We could have had some really decent pieces for him.

This package may not be spectacular, but it is WAY better than what we got and I think Denver will be fine.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:41 AM   #14
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluerap
The other thing to consider is that Melo was upfront and honest with Denver.
CB was not and neither was Lebron.
.
I prefer to say that CB and Lebron played their cards correctly (media shows aside), considering the business that it is, and Carmelo gave up to external pressures.
What I don't buy is that, while franchises trade players whenever they want, players are considered to owe something to their franchises.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:49 AM   #15
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Default Re: The Melo trade instantly made me think about BC

Now I'm far from a fan of BC but in his defense last year at the trade deadline there were talks that we might overtake Boston to win the Atlantic division, everyone was still under the impression that a successful season might be enough to keep Bosh and he had in no way provided us with the same clear-cut "There's no way in hell I'm resigning here" message that Melo did in an effort to try and salvage his relationship with what would be his former home (unbeknownst to us at the time).

Besides given that apparently all along Bosh wanted to go and join the superfriends in Miami, which resulted in not one but two S&T's I don't see how BC could have done much better in terms of getting a package for a guy when he'd either be shipped to a place that needed to hold assets to pick up Lebron as well or to a team that would have no assurance that he'd be more than a rental and therefore would be less likely to sell the farm for him.
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