Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > Off the Court Lounge

Off the Court Lounge Basketball fans talk about everything EXCEPT basketball here

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-21-2006, 05:12 PM   #1
rezznor
Nosetradamus
 
rezznor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tonga
Posts: 16,554
rezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default ot: rap lyrics used as evidence..

what do you guys think?


Rap lyrics bring poetic justice, prosecutors say
POSTED: 11:54 a.m. EST, December 21, 2006
Adjust font size:
NEW YORK (AP) -- When police arrested Ronell Wilson, his pockets were stuffed with the type of violent poetry that boys have been scribbling in notebooks since the advent of gangsta rap.

In his lyrics, Wilson called himself "Rated R," warned any challengers to wear a bulletproof vest, and boasted of leaving .45-caliber slugs in the heads of his enemies.

The clumsy verses may never land Wilson a record deal, but to prosecutors, they were solid gold.

Wilson went on trial in federal court in Brooklyn this month on charges he murdered two undercover police officers, and the government presented the lyrics to a jury as evidence that the 23-year-old is a remorseless killer.

Prosecutor Morris J. Fodeman asked jurors to take special note of one stanza: "Ain't goin' stop to I'm dead."

The jury convicted Wilson on Wednesday, and he now faces a possible death sentence.

The use of rap lyrics at trial is a tactic that has been embraced by prosecutors across the country in recent years.

In cases ranging from small-time robberies to high-profile murders, investigators have discovered that the lead suspects are also wannabe rappers who have written ultra-violent fantasies about murdering and raping their way through life.

Violent lyrics have not been central to the cases, which were built on such evidence as confessions, eyewitness testimony and DNA and other forensic findings. But prosecutors have used rap lyrics to help establish motives and shed light on defendants' characters. Some have brought up the lyrics only during sentencing.

Introducing such writings into evidence is not always easy. But in many instances, there is enough of a resemblance between art and life to persuade a judge to say yes.

The result can be disaster for defendants.

In October, a jury convicted a reputed gang member of murdering a 17-year-old boy in Chico, California, after hearing two tracks from a rap CD he had co-written under the street name "Young Saint." The recording warned that rivals would die "looking at my barrel with your very last breath."

In February, an 18-year-old was convicted of a murder near Staunton, Virginia, after the prosecution brought up a rap he composed in jail that referred to the killing.

Last year, a jury in Alabama sentenced a man named Nathaniel Woods to death for his role in the murder of three Birmingham police officers after prosecutors showed the jury rap lyrics and drawings he kept in jail that glorified the slayings.

"In our case, they gave him the death penalty because he had such a terrible mouth," said Rita Briles, one of Woods' attorneys.

The growing use of lyrics in court has predictably bothered some defense attorneys, who worry about prosecutors introducing violent, curse-filled verses simply to make a defendant look bad in front of a middle-class jury.

"The fallacy of it is that it confuses art with fact," said Bruce Rogow, who defended the Florida rap group 2 Live Crew on obscenity charges in the 1990s. "What you see are prosecutors reaching for anything they can to try to paint bad character."

Philadelphia defense attorney Michael Coard, who also teaches a class on hip hop at Temple University, said attempting to use rap as a window into a defendant's mind is especially problematic, given rap's tradition of overtly ridiculous braggadocio.

"It's about boasting. It's about exaggerating. ... It's about acting," he said. "If Robert De Niro, or Al Pacino or Marlon Brando are charged with shooting somebody, are they going to be playing clips from `The Godfather' in court?"

Judges occasionally agree.

When rap star Beanie Sigel was sentenced on gun charges in Philadelphia in 2004, a federal prosecutor quoted Sigel lyrics about pouring acid on children and raping pregnant women.

The judge was dismissive, saying that Sigel was simply playing a character for his fans. Sigel, who has a long rap sheet, was later acquitted of attempted murder in an unrelated case.

The rapper's attorney, Fortunato Perri Jr., said he has had a tougher time downplaying the significance of rap lyrics written by other, less-famous clients.

"If we have to deal with it at trial, the argument in front of a jury is that it is just kids goofing off, imitating things that they hear from world renowned artists," Perri said.

In September, a prosecutor in Richmond, California, held up cardboard signs bearing rap lyrics as he made his closing argument against a teenager accused of murdering a high school football player. The teen, Darren Pratcher, had written a rap in which he had warned: "If you ain't from our part of town, you're a (expletive) target."

Prosecutor David Brown told jurors Pratcher was simply acting out that philosophy when he gunned down his victim, who was not from the neighborhood.

The jury voted to convict.

"They were words of his soul," Brown said of the teen's writings. "It was my understanding from his lyrics that he knew exactly who he was shooting."

Pratcher, who was 15 at the time of the shooting, could get life in prison
rezznor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2006, 05:13 PM   #2
GOBB
Sixers|Eagles|Phillies
 
GOBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Illadelph live 215
Posts: 51,202
GOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default

Really dumb.
GOBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2006, 05:15 PM   #3
AppleNader
Cornell Basketball=#1
 
AppleNader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,307
AppleNader has a terrific reputationAppleNader has a terrific reputationAppleNader has a terrific reputationAppleNader has a terrific reputationAppleNader has a terrific reputation
Default

If George W. Bush wasn't in office, this wouldn't have happened because there would have been more money for social programs that could've saved this young man's future.
AppleNader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2006, 05:16 PM   #4
rezznor
Nosetradamus
 
rezznor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tonga
Posts: 16,554
rezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
Really dumb.


the prosecution, or the wannabee rappers?
rezznor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2006, 05:23 PM   #5
BradMiller52
Kings fan
 
BradMiller52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: I wanna get paid like Mikki
Posts: 2,724
BradMiller52 has an OK reputation so far
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezznor
In October, a jury convicted a reputed gang member of murdering a 17-year-old boy in Chico, California, after hearing two tracks from a rap CD he had co-written under the street name "Young Saint." The recording warned that rivals would die "looking at my barrel with your very last breath."


Wow I live by there.
BradMiller52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2006, 05:25 PM   #6
allball
National High School Star
 
allball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Spring, TX (H-town)
Posts: 2,112
allball has decent reputationallball has decent reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleNader
If George W. Bush wasn't in office, this wouldn't have happened because there would have been more money for social programs that could've saved this young man's future.

so did those social programs exist in Clinton's administration? ever heard of Tipper Gore? no copouts please.
allball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2006, 05:32 PM   #7
geeWiz15
Quality Posts™
 
geeWiz15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: limbo
Posts: 5,765
geeWiz15 has a near all-star reputation heregeeWiz15 has a near all-star reputation heregeeWiz15 has a near all-star reputation heregeeWiz15 has a near all-star reputation heregeeWiz15 has a near all-star reputation heregeeWiz15 has a near all-star reputation here
Default

Quote:
If George W. Bush wasn't in office, this wouldn't have happened because there would have been more money for social programs that could've saved this young man's future.
yeah. because everyone knows the President makes laws.

you think Kerry's persuading a Republican congress in "a time of war" to spend all their time on social problems? especially with a huge pivotal election looming? leave it to Mr. Charisma?

blaming the problems of our contry on one person is pretty much the worst thing an educated American can do
geeWiz15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2006, 05:34 PM   #8
AppleNader
Cornell Basketball=#1
 
AppleNader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,307
AppleNader has a terrific reputationAppleNader has a terrific reputationAppleNader has a terrific reputationAppleNader has a terrific reputationAppleNader has a terrific reputation
Default

do any of you artards know what satire is?

maybe I should've made it more clear: : : : :
AppleNader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2006, 05:37 PM   #9
MaxFly
Stylin' on you
 
MaxFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 8,393
MaxFly is popular on this boardMaxFly is popular on this boardMaxFly is popular on this boardMaxFly is popular on this boardMaxFly is popular on this board
Default

This isn't the first time I've heard of rap lyrics helping to catch and/or put away criminals. Some people are just dumb.
MaxFly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2006, 05:38 PM   #10
Smokee
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,285
Smokee is a pretty well-respected posterSmokee is a pretty well-respected posterSmokee is a pretty well-respected posterSmokee is a pretty well-respected poster
Default

how the **** would a social program save this dude? if you want to be a gangsta and go robbing and shootin people no social program is going to save you. Social programs are more or less a waste of government money on skewed statistics to make someone in office look good.

I still laff at how people think its everyone elses fault for what an individual decides to do. All this inner city pity acting like none of them have opportunities anywhere to learn or the resources is just stupid. Reality is if you want to learn, want a job, want to become somebody on the right track its on you. The dude who wants to live like a rapper, with quick cash right away slingin dope and robbin people did it to themself.
Smokee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2006, 06:05 PM   #11
rezznor
Nosetradamus
 
rezznor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tonga
Posts: 16,554
rezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerezznor is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokee
how the **** would a social program save this dude? if you want to be a gangsta and go robbing and shootin people no social program is going to save you. Social programs are more or less a waste of government money on skewed statistics to make someone in office look good.

I still laff at how people think its everyone elses fault for what an individual decides to do. All this inner city pity acting like none of them have opportunities anywhere to learn or the resources is just stupid. Reality is if you want to learn, want a job, want to become somebody on the right track its on you. The dude who wants to live like a rapper, with quick cash right away slingin dope and robbin people did it to themself.


wow i actually agree with smokee. the apocalypse is nigh!
rezznor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2006, 06:22 PM   #12
GOBB
Sixers|Eagles|Phillies
 
GOBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Illadelph live 215
Posts: 51,202
GOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezznor
the prosecution, or the wannabee rappers?

Both.
GOBB is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:17 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy