Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > Toronto Raptors Forum

Toronto Raptors Forum Toronto Raptors message board - Toronto Raptors forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-09-2012, 02:38 PM   #1
Himan12
On the clouds
 
Himan12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 647
Himan12 has an OK reputation so far
Default Future is bleak

Barring winning the lottery, raptors are once again in a position to draft a player who will be a non factor years from now. And once again I question the point of following a franchise that clearly doesn't have a long term plan or goal outside of making the playoffs. I thought the goal of every franchise was to win a championship or at the very least contend for one.

Say what you want about tanking being dishonorable or how true fans believe and stick with their team through thick and thin. Lets say the then Seattle now okc won a couple of more games and drafted Conley or brewer. Are you telling me that the integrity of winning those extra games were more beneficial than just tanking and securing a superstar? What I m getting at is, it gets tiresome wasting 2-3 hours of your life cheering for a loser.

How can this team change its philosophy? Is it time for raptors fans to close the wallets and boycott this product? Cause clearly management is happy with the situation.

There are some pieces that can be moved, like Calderon, Kleiza, one of Amir or Davis. Would these moves set back the franchise's goal of just making the playoffs? Yes. But the long term outlook of this team getting a number one pick hopefully along with valanciunas, bargs (yes I did include him in with a potential core) and a couple of other high picks can go along way in securing free agents, getting the best out of current players on this roster and giving this team an identity which is much better then keeping those guys.

Tbh, we have gone through scenarios like the above paragraph but year after year things remain the same. I see no hope, no shining light, no savior and no point of watching crap year after year after year.

Last edited by Himan12 : 05-09-2012 at 05:34 PM.
Himan12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2012, 04:39 PM   #2
brwnman
.
 
brwnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,662
brwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputation
Default Re: Future is bleak

there are rumors that if we don't get a top 4-5 pick, we will be trading the pick for a player that will impact the team readily for next year. Treadmill, here we come...
brwnman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2012, 08:41 PM   #3
Prodigy
Diaw Fan
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: VanCity
Posts: 1,758
Prodigy has decent reputation
Default Re: Future is bleak

I hear the Miami Heat bandwagon are always looking for more people.
Prodigy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2012, 10:52 PM   #4
bada bing
College star
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,231
bada bing is a pretty well-respected posterbada bing is a pretty well-respected posterbada bing is a pretty well-respected poster
Default Re: Future is bleak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigy
I hear the Miami Heat bandwagon are always looking for more people.

why do people post such comments here when people share actual concerns of the team?

its very annoying. The OP has posted valid concerns that every die hard fan of this team should have. Maybe you love mediocrity but the rest of us will never be happy as bottom feeders. It is these idiotic dumba$$ fans that the raptor management targets and makes their money from.
bada bing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2012, 11:05 PM   #5
Himan12
On the clouds
 
Himan12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 647
Himan12 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Future is bleak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigy
I hear the Miami Heat bandwagon are always looking for more people.



So because I want this team to win a championship or at the very least go deep in playoffs... I should go cheer for a contender? Wtf is the point of that? I post on the raptors board not the heat.

Are you honestly satisfied with the this team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bada bing
why do people post such comments here when people share actual concerns of the team?

its very annoying. The OP has posted valid concerns that every die hard fan of this team should have. Maybe you love mediocrity but the rest of us will never be happy as bottom feeders. It is these idiotic dumba$$ fans that the raptor management targets and makes their money from.

Sup bing, nice to see you are still up front and brutal.
Himan12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2012, 11:08 PM   #6
Chamberlain
Riggin' for Wiggins!
 
Chamberlain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cape Breton Island
Posts: 4,241
Chamberlain has a terrific reputationChamberlain has a terrific reputationChamberlain has a terrific reputationChamberlain has a terrific reputationChamberlain has a terrific reputation
Default Re: Future is bleak

Great point about Durant vs. Conley/Brewer in OKC.

The NBA is a league where you need a Superstar (at least) to be able to contend for a championship. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule (recently, the Pistons teams), but for the most part, this holds true.

Winning a few extra games and drafting another role player isn't something that will help the club long term, and Toronto isn't a team that can attract high end free agents, so they must rely on the draft to find this superstar.
Chamberlain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2012, 11:39 PM   #7
Prodigy
Diaw Fan
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: VanCity
Posts: 1,758
Prodigy has decent reputation
Default Re: Future is bleak

Quote:
Originally Posted by bada bing
why do people post such comments here when people share actual concerns of the team?

its very annoying. The OP has posted valid concerns that every die hard fan of this team should have. Maybe you love mediocrity but the rest of us will never be happy as bottom feeders. It is these idiotic dumba$$ fans that the raptor management targets and makes their money from.

This bitching and whining has been going on all season long. There is nobody on this board that doesn't agree. But just because we didn't get a top 3 pick everyone's pulling out their hair like it's the end of the world. We could've been bottom 5 but ended up 8th worst because we won a couple of games late in the season with a bunch of d-league scrubs. That's not on the GM or on the coach it's just bad luck. For everyone around here to renounce their 'fandom' just because of a bit of bad luck coming from fluke wins at the end of the season just proves that they're in it for the short-term and want instant-gratification via first overall selections. If you want that then you should go root for the Miami Heat.

Some thing that you've all seem to forgotten is that you can't win a championship with just good management, good coaching staff, and a good core of players. You need lots and lots of luck. Just look at the Blazers, draft a top3 sg and a centre looking to dominate the league and they lose both of them permanently in a couple seasons. The Raptors have never been an organization with good luck so I don't see why you guys are all surprised.

Last edited by Prodigy : 05-09-2012 at 11:45 PM.
Prodigy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2012, 08:28 AM   #8
T-Low
College superstar
 
T-Low's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,652
T-Low is considered somewhat coolT-Low is considered somewhat coolT-Low is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Future is bleak

Once a Raptors fan, always a Raptors fan....
T-Low is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2012, 09:41 AM   #9
clipse
I brick open layups
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 112
clipse has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Future is bleak

Even if the raps did get the number 1 pick and take AD, and we tanked next year and grabbed another top 3 pick, would that even result in us becoming a contender? Even if those guys develop and we get a few key free agents, would that put the raps in a position to beat the likes of the Thunder, Heat, or Bulls in a few years?

I agree that the draft is the best way for the raps to build a foundation for a team, but as someone else said, luck has a lot to do with it as well. Not to mention that in today's NBA, it looks like you would need 2 stars to contend.

I'm just hoping karma kicks in and we are able to get a top 3 pick this year. If the nets end up keeping their top 3 protected pick, I think I'd vomit!
clipse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2012, 11:34 AM   #10
Chamberlain
Riggin' for Wiggins!
 
Chamberlain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cape Breton Island
Posts: 4,241
Chamberlain has a terrific reputationChamberlain has a terrific reputationChamberlain has a terrific reputationChamberlain has a terrific reputationChamberlain has a terrific reputation
Default Re: Future is bleak

Everybody renouncing their fandom? There's a difference between giving up on a team and being pissed off at years of mediocrity. The fact we are still posting here debunks your argument that we are all renouncing our fandom.

@clipse - Maybe. Going back to the Seattle/OKC argument.. I'm sure there were tons of people saying that Kevin Durant wouldn't be able to turn a team into a contender, asking if he would be able to help beat the likes of the Lakers and other powerhouse teams. People questioned whether or not he'd be able to compete with his small/weak frame. Sounds a lot like Anthony Davis.

Sure, Davis could bust and luck is involved, but because of Seattle being able to draft high, they were able to take a player with a higher potential ceiling (Durant) over other players such as Mike Conley and Corey Brewer.

Durant wasn't able to immediately help the team obviously. Another bad year led to Russell Westbrook, and then James Harden. They were able to add excellent complimentary pieces in Ibaka, Sefalosha, Perkins, etc.

With Valanciunas coming over, even if we ended up with a Harisson Barnes or Michael Kidd-Gilchrist and not Davis, we would add another piece to the puzzle. My opinion now is that neither Barnes or MKG will be on a level of Durant, but then again, did most believe that Durant would be on the level of Kobe Bryant? I'd say no.

It comes down to luck, I can agree with that, but there are ways to set yourself up to be in a position where luck is more likely to be on your side.
Chamberlain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2012, 04:42 PM   #11
Toni
The Clumsy Waiter
 
Toni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,497
Toni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Future is bleak

We'll have another top 5 pick this year. Val will come over next season. Calderon will probably get traded in his final year of his contract. The majority of the team will be talented and under 25 years old. Things will start to improve and will become more optimistic in Raptor nation.
Toni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2012, 06:28 PM   #12
bluerap
Local High School Star
 
bluerap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,014
bluerap has decent reputation
Default Re: Future is bleak

The retool I believe BC is working on.

Sign a pretty good pg. Probably Ray Felton
Trade Jose and AB for Amare Stat.
Trade our first rounder and Ed Davis for Wilson Chandler.
Sign Barbosa

Next years lineup

Ray Felton
Demar
Wilson Chandler
Amare
Val

Bench
Amir
Barbosa
Bayless
Gray
JJ
Kleiza


That's good for 8th place, a first-round exit and one injury away from screwing us for the next few years.
bluerap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2012, 07:41 PM   #13
keantona
I hit open 5-footers
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 272
keantona has decent reputation
Default Re: Future is bleak

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluerap
The retool I believe BC is working on.

Sign a pretty good pg. Probably Ray Felton
Trade Jose and AB for Amare Stat.
Trade our first rounder and Ed Davis for Wilson Chandler.
Sign Barbosa

Next years lineup

Ray Felton
Demar
Wilson Chandler
Amare
Val

Bench
Amir
Barbosa
Bayless
Gray
JJ
Kleiza


That's good for 8th place, a first-round exit and one injury away from screwing us for the next few years.

Is it? Personally I doubt it. In fact, I really can't see how on earth the Raptors could make the playoffs next year, or even get really close. Colangelo may well regret putting out the idea that it's playoffs or bust for the Raps next year.
keantona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2012, 07:58 PM   #14
Himan12
On the clouds
 
Himan12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 647
Himan12 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Future is bleak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigy
This bitching and whining has been going on all season long. There is nobody on this board that doesn't agree. But just because we didn't get a top 3 pick everyone's pulling out their hair like it's the end of the world. We could've been bottom 5 but ended up 8th worst because we won a couple of games late in the season with a bunch of d-league scrubs. That's not on the GM or on the coach it's just bad luck. For everyone around here to renounce their 'fandom' just because of a bit of bad luck coming from fluke wins at the end of the season just proves that they're in it for the short-term and want instant-gratification via first overall selections. If you want that then you should go root for the Miami Heat.

Some thing that you've all seem to forgotten is that you can't win a championship with just good management, good coaching staff, and a good core of players. You need lots and lots of luck. Just look at the Blazers, draft a top3 sg and a centre looking to dominate the league and they lose both of them permanently in a couple seasons. The Raptors have never been an organization with good luck so I don't see why you guys are all surprised.

If the raptors were the same situation that the blazers were in, I dont think anyone would be calling out management or anyone else in the organization. Bad luck doesnt take away all the good that the blazers did in drafting/developing such a talented team.

And you are fooling yourself if you dont think management couldnt have done more to secure a top pick.
Himan12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2012, 08:07 PM   #15
Qwyjibo
Yankee.Hotel.Foxtrot
 
Qwyjibo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,414
Qwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Future is bleak

Quote:
Originally Posted by keantona
Is it? Personally I doubt it. In fact, I really can't see how on earth the Raptors could make the playoffs next year, or even get really close. Colangelo may well regret putting out the idea that it's playoffs or bust for the Raps next year.
I think they could. You forget how pathetic the East is. That roster would be a nightmare though. Amare is one of the worst contracts in the league and Felton sucks. I'd rather have Calderon over Felton any day.
Qwyjibo is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:16 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy