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Old 02-11-2013, 06:20 AM   #1
Money 23
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Default Ranking the Batman Movie Franchise

1) The Dark Knight - 10 / 10 (the very best)
2) Batman Begins - 9 / 10
3) TDK Rises - 8.5 / 10

4) Batman 1989 - 8 / 10 (most important / most fun)

5) Batman '66 - 7 / 10
6) Batman Returns - 6 / 10 (the most polarizing)

7) Batman Forever - 4 / 10
8) Batman and Robin - 2 / 10 (the most hated)

Animated Films

1) Batman: Mask of the Phantasm: 10 / 10
2) Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker: 9 / 10
3) DC comics The Dark Knight Returns : 9 / 10

4) DC comics Batman: Under the Red Hood: 8 / 10
5) DC comics Batman: Year One: 7 / 10
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:06 AM   #2
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Default Re: Ranking the Batman Movie Franchise

Live action:
1. TDK - 10/10
2. TDKR - 10/10
3. B89 - 9/10
4. BB - 8/10
5. BR - 5/10
6. BF - 4/10
7. B&R - 3/10
8. B66 - 2/10

Last edited by D-Wade316 : 02-11-2013 at 07:27 AM.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:26 AM   #3
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Default Re: Ranking the Batman Movie Franchise

tdkr is not better than begins, tdk, batman and batman forever. nothing but batman version of the transformers.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: Ranking the Batman Movie Franchise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rysio
tdkr is not better than begins, tdk, batman and batman forever. nothing but batman version of the transformers.
You're dumb as phuck. Future neg.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:36 AM   #5
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Default Re: Ranking the Batman Movie Franchise

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Wade316
Live action:
1. TDK
2. TDKR
3. B89
4. BB
5. BF
6. B&R
7. B66
Nice list, but as a Batman enthusiast, and fellow D-Wade fan I must ask you a few questions ...

What's with the criminal underrating of Batman '66? It's essentially acknowledged it is tongue in cheek, and on those merits it can't be taken remotely seriously, so don't you think it's a fun movie on some levels?

The biggest question, I was wondering why you consider B89 to be better than BEGINS? I often tossed and turned over this. As it pertains to BEGINS, it was the first legit great FILM in the series. It was the first film where Bruce Wayne is the main character and protagonist, and we the audience have pathos for him since the film is through his eyes. It has great Batman iconography and probably the greatest comic book origin film this side of Superman: TM (which was slightly tongue in cheek, same for B89) and Iron Man.

I used to toss and turn because for me B89 is just so nostalgic. It was such an important film. Not just for Batman, not just for the re-invention of the character as he would be seen by the masses, but also for comic book movies and blockbusters in general. Without it's success, we wouldn't have got Nolan's series, we may not have possibly got the comic book film genre boom of the 2000s. It's importance outweighed it's actual worth as a film.

But it did have iconic interpretations of both Batman and the Joker, it followed the characterization of the very first Bob Kane comics of the late 30s. I enjoyed the stylistic, Gothic approach. It was a triumph of style over substance, but it was a surreal Gotham City that fit the material. It was a movie that delivered the darkness of the character and mythos, without losing sight of it being a comic book and having fun with the material. You could argue it has less respect for the source (especially given the changes to the material) but some would argue Nolan's version takes the character too seriously, making it melodrama, and forgetting the inherent fun and quirky nature of it being a comic book about a man dressing up as a giant bat to fight crime. Even if the material was more shallow, Keaton and Nicholson's performances were mesmerizing. Keaton's Batman was particularly nuanced and subtle.

I used to prefer it over BEGINS specifically because a) Nicholson's Joker as the antagonist b) the stylized feel and the slightly less grounded approach.

But I'm wondering why you prefer it. Obviously you don't have to write a novel like I just did, but I'd be interested to see how you feel. I think BEGINS is the better movie, and even though it was important in setting the trend for grounded superhero movies and setting a new trend of the re-boot which could erase a franchises mistakes in previous films ... B89 is ultimately a bigger, and even more important trend setter. What it lacks in BEGINS heady, smart realism and motivations, it makes up for in sheer fun for all ages, a kid's film in adult clothing. Where as the Nolan films are adult films, in kid film clothing or appeal (superheroes)
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:06 AM   #6
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Default Re: Ranking the Batman Movie Franchise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Money 23
Nice list, but as a Batman enthusiast, and fellow D-Wade fan I must ask you a few questions ...

What's with the criminal underrating of Batman '66? It's essentially acknowledged it is tongue in cheek, and on those merits it can't be taken remotely seriously, so don't you think it's a fun movie on some levels?
The jokes never worked for me.
Quote:
The biggest question, I was wondering why you consider B89 to be better than BEGINS?

BB is Nolan's first blockbuster and the results show how much refinement his directorial talents needed. B89 has the best art direction of all live Batman films. I can't praise it enough. The art direction literally turned Gotham City into a character. It has an epic scope. BB on the other hand feels limited, mainly because of the decision to shoot the Narrows on an obviously fake stage. I would have preferred a real world setting over it. Detroit's slums for example. Or maybe even New York's. The tone drastically shifts after Batman's first appearance.

Keaton is better than Bale. He doesn't bring the physicality that Bale does but he nails Bruce's obsession with the mask. Vicki is better than Rachel(no explanation needed). Jack is better than Liam. Ra's' exposition at the mansion explored nothing but theme speak. Nolan is lambasted for too much exposition and BB is where he is most guilty of(I've seen all of his films). And most importantly the script is better. Nothing of the stupid plot device. TDKR improved on this leap and bounds.

You probably chose BB because it builds ideas. Ideas that evolved through the series. Batman now has meaning and purpose. But the execution is messy because of the reasons stated above.
Quote:
I often tossed and turned over this. As it pertains to BEGINS, it was the first legit great FILM in the series. It was the first film where Bruce Wayne is the main character and protagonist, and we the audience have pathos for him since the film is through his eyes. It has great Batman iconography and probably the greatest comic book origin film this side of Superman: TM (which was slightly tongue in cheek, same for B89) and Iron Man.
I disagree. The Burton films, heck even BF and B&R, are deeply personal. The character arc is so subtle, chances are you won't even notice it. B89 dealt with Bruce's need for revenge. He further sinks into isolation and obsession in BR. Batman is who he is. Without the mask he's nothing.

BF then addressed this issue as he finally realizes revenge only consumed and brought him to a deeper pit in life. He said it outright to Robin that if you kill Harvey, there's gonna be another Harvey, and more Harvey, ad infinitum. He now has a purpose for the mask. He dons the mask because he wants to protect people. B&R is the conclusion of the arc as he becomes a philanthropist. The opposite of where he was at the beginning of B89 who the media didn't even recognize.
Quote:
I used to toss and turn because for me B89 is just so nostalgic. It was such an important film. Not just for Batman, not just for the re-invention of the character as he would be seen by the masses, but also for comic book movies and blockbusters in general. Without it's success, we wouldn't have got Nolan's series, we may not have possibly got the comic book film genre boom of the 2000s. It's importance outweighed it's actual worth as a film.

But it did have iconic interpretations of both Batman and the Joker, it followed the characterization of the very first Bob Kane comics of the late 30s. I enjoyed the stylistic, Gothic approach. It was a triumph of style over substance, but it was a surreal Gotham City that fit the material. It was a movie that delivered the darkness of the character and mythos, without losing sight of it being a comic book and having fun with the material. You could argue it has less respect for the source (especially given the changes to the material) but some would argue Nolan's version takes the character too seriously, making it melodrama, and forgetting the inherent fun and quirky nature of it being a comic book about a man dressing up as a giant bat to fight crime. Even if the material was more shallow, Keaton and Nicholson's performances were mesmerizing. Keaton's Batman was particularly nuanced and subtle.

I used to prefer it over BEGINS specifically because a) Nicholson's Joker as the antagonist b) the stylized feel and the slightly less grounded approach.

But I'm wondering why you prefer it. Obviously you don't have to write a novel like I just did, but I'd be interested to see how you feel. I think BEGINS is the better movie, and even though it was important in setting the trend for grounded superhero movies and setting a new trend of the re-boot which could erase a franchises mistakes in previous films ... B89 is ultimately a bigger, and even more important trend setter. What it lacks in BEGINS heady, smart realism and motivations, it makes up for in sheer fun for all ages, a kid's film in adult clothing. Where as the Nolan films are adult films, in kid film clothing or appeal (superheroes)
I'm with you. The films are nostalgic. I think both versions will last because they offer a different interpretation. I just happen to prefer B89 over BB. We'll just have to agree and disagree from there.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:14 AM   #7
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Default Re: Ranking the Batman Movie Franchise

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Wade316
You're dumb as phuck. Future neg.
gtfo fanboy
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:30 PM   #8
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Default Re: Ranking the Batman Movie Franchise

Live action:
1. The Dark Knight - 10/10
2. Batman Begins - 9/10
3. Batman (1989) - 8.5/10
4. Batman Returns - 7.51/10
5. Dark Knight Rises - 7.50/10 (this seems to go down for me every time I think about it)
6. Batman (1966) - 6.5/10
7. Batman Forever - 6/10
8. Batman & Robin - 2.5/10


2. TDKR - 10/10
3. B89 - 9/10
4. BB - 8/10
5. BR - 5/10
6. BF - 4/10
7. B&R - 3/10
8. B66 - 2/10
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:53 PM   #9
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Default Re: Ranking the Batman Movie Franchise

1. The Dark Knight - 9.5/10
2. Batman '89 - 9.4/10
3. Batman Begins - 8/10
4. Batman Returns - 7/10
5. Dark Knight Rises - 7/10
7. Batman Forever - 5/10 (silly but fun, did enjoy as a kid)
8. Batman & Robin - 3/10

Haven't seen the '66 one.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:59 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ranking the Batman Movie Franchise

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller-time
1. The Dark Knight - 9.5/10
2. Batman '89 - 9.4/10
3. Batman Begins - 8/10
4. Batman Returns - 7/10
5. Dark Knight Rises - 7/10
7. Batman Forever - 5/10 (silly but fun, did enjoy as a kid)
8. Batman & Robin - 3/10

Haven't seen the '66 one.

Pretty close to how mine was ranked above
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:02 PM   #11
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Default Re: Ranking the Batman Movie Franchise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
Pretty close to how mine was ranked above

I actually copied your template because it required the least amount of work lol.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: Ranking the Batman Movie Franchise

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller-time
I actually copied your template because it required the least amount of work lol.

I actually used D-Wade316's format

But I switched up my ratings and order more.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:20 PM   #13
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Default Re: Ranking the Batman Movie Franchise

I actually like Rises more than The Dark Knight
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:02 AM   #14
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Default Re: Ranking the Batman Movie Franchise

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWade316
B89 has the best art direction of all live Batman films.
I agree. A lot needs to be credited to Anton Furst and films like "Metropolis" as inspiration for the look and feel of Gotham City. But absolutely they made a city that was a character itself.

I enjoy the differences in vision. In the Nolan Trilogy, Gotham is an American City needing to be saved from depression, oppression, and terrorism. It is a physical representation of Wayne's father's legacy.

In Burton's film, it is a hell hole, seemingly rotten for centuries and Batman is fighting the very nature of the city itself. It's an interesting take.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWade316
It has an epic scope. BB on the other hand feels limited, mainly because of the decision to shoot the Narrows on an obviously fake stage.
This, no offense is where you are COMPLETELY wrong.

B89 was filmed entirely on an England outdoor stage. You can notice the one street they built being seen over and over again in every scene outdoors. They also used models and matte paintings.

BEGINS just used a closed set for the Narrows scenes. Which is a small part of the actual movie. Countless scenes were filmed on location, in Iceland for the outer perspective of Gotham, and the majority of the film was shot in Chicago. I should know, I was on set for much of it.

Including an epic car chase through the streets of downtown and on lower whacker drive. As opposed to the B89 chase that was filmed on a small stage, and then sped up. No where is their a sense of SCALE and EPIC SCOPE of BEGINS in B89.

B89, like Returns (even smaller set) feel miniscule and small in comparison. Those movies are on confined looped outdoor sets that diminish scale, but give a very fairy tale, Gothic, otherworld type feel. BEGINS is very much a gritty, 70's esque American City. Plus, the fact in all Nolan's films Bruce travels outside the country, giving his world more plausibility and scope.

BEGINS was the first Batman movie to film ON LOCATION and not exclusively in England or on a Hollywood sound stage. They used real buildings and images from American Cities and blended them together.

That opening shot of Gotham in B89 looks surreal, that vast shot of a sprawling American metropolis in BEGINS when he returns from his training is gran, and epic in execution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWade316
tone drastically shifts after Batman's first appearance.
Agreed, but that's because after Batman's first appearance at the docks, the film Nolan set out to make ends, and the Hollywood action movie / superhero movie cliches begin. Even if it's done better than it's contemporaries, it's bound to it's genre limitations in the 3rd act the way the two sequels to this film didn't feel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWade316
Keaton is better than Bale.
You could argue one's potrayl of Batman over the other. Depending on preference. Keaton's Batman was his true personality, thus the more comfortable mannerisms and nuance. That's why he sleeps upside down when w/ Viki. He's literally Batman.

Bale's Batman is a persona, meant as the channeling of aggression and a deliberate THEATRICAL endeavor. Thus the voice, which people don't understand ... makes complete sense given what Bruce is aiming to do. He's not intending to sound natural.

Their Bruce Wayne performances however, is a no contest for Bale. Keaton isn't given much to play with, but he basically plays Keaton as an odd ball. Where as Bale carries the weight of two movies on his chops alone (Begins and Rises) and is the backbone of TDK. He gives so much nuance, and range in his performances in these three films as Wayne, there isn't much of a contest here. Bale wins the Wayne department in a land slide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWade316
He doesn't bring the physicality that Bale does but he nails Bruce's obsession with the mask.
But that physicality is a must for the character. I get the reason for casting Keaton, and it worked. Especially for it's time. The odd casting choice created audience immersion. But it's still ultimately flawed. He's just way too meager of a physical presence. Bale brings the same emotional intensity, while also being physically intimidating.

Wrong. Bale's Bruce Wayne is portrayed as an obsessive. A high functioning mentally ill person. Keaton's Wayne is portrayed as a neurotic and flat out crazy man. Burton's intent was to say anyone who does this is just as crazy as the guy he's fighting (the Joker)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWade316
Vicki is better than Rachel(no explanation needed).
Not really. Viki screams and is an action movie cliche. Her character is pointless, kind of a bitch, and serves no true purpose.

Katie Holme's Rachel is the only weak link acting wise, but her character serves true purpose and brings insight into the Bruce Wayne character.

That Knox character? Even more useless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWade316
Jack is better than Liam.
Agreed, but BEGINS is less about Batman v.s. ____ villain, and more about the idea of creating symbols, a lost young man seeking to find purpose, looks to create a legend, and destroys himself in the process. It's tragic, but brilliant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWade316
Ra's' exposition at the mansion explored nothing but theme speak. Nolan is lambasted for too much exposition and BB is where he is most guilty of(I've seen all of his films). And most importantly the script is better. Nothing of the stupid plot device. TDKR improved on this leap and bounds.
Agreed, that cliched 3rd act and plot device. I'm glad TDK Rises went all out and finally made the plot device I've been waiting for in a superhero film. An actual disaster film with the use of a dirty bomb.

BB has weak elements of the script because it was written by Goyer, and Nolan just helped. In the two sequels, Nolan and his brother did the actual script, and Goyer just helped with the outline and keeping things in tune to the source material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWade316
you probably chose BB because it builds ideas. Ideas that evolved through the series. Batman now has meaning and purpose. But the execution is messy because of the reasons stated above.
I don't think so. And you didn't explain why it's messy. All things considered, it's well done. Think you're criminally underrating this film.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWade316
I disagree. The Burton films, heck even BF and B&R, are deeply personal.
Oh come on. You call BEGINS execution sloppy, and then give these films credit calling them personal?

We see Bruce, finally in BEGINS, from a young age w/ his family before their death. We see him angry, and lost. We see the transition. We see the link to his father through surrogate figures like Alfred, Fox, Ducard, and Gordon.

There is WAY more heart in the Nolan films. Burton's films had good characterization of Batman (B89 did at least) but it wasn't about character development like Nolan's series. They weren't films about Bruce Wayne. B89 plot wise isn't much about anything, Burton so much admitted it. In fact he calls it boring. Returns is a Burton film first, Batman film second, and it's about typical Burton circle jerk stuff like being a freak, and an outcast.

In the process warped the characters of Batman, Penguin, and Catwoman to fit his agenda.

Returns took Batman down a path that was furtherest from his character from the comics, and frankly didn't make sense. They then had loose continuity in his character arc in the next two films. But they were lightly touched upon because they were looking for a reason to brighten the material up. Make it less moody, and dark visually.

I think B89 is the better visual eye candy. It's the more important film. It's arguably the more fun film. But it is by no means better acted, better scripted, better action, or better directed. It's a testament to the production team and marketing team more so than it is a story, or character piece.

I get you prefer the vision. But it's odd considering how highly you rate TDK and RISES, and BEGINS is the foundation for those films. I think you're a little too hard on BEGINS.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:08 AM   #15
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Default Re: Ranking the Batman Movie Franchise

People that didn't like TDKR are fu**ing nuts . Myth every time I think about it I like it MORE, not less. In fact I saw it a second time and notice subtleties I previously didn't appreciate enough and it made me like the movie more.
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