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Old 04-26-2013, 07:54 PM   #1
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Default Gender and Advertising

Well done video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=HaB2b1w52yE

We can have a discussion too if you'd like, but I just felt like sharing the video.
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:04 PM   #2
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Default Re: Gender and Advertising

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
Well done video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=HaB2b1w52yE

We can have a discussion too if you'd like, but I just felt like sharing the video.

Really cool, especially when they switched the gender roles.. really gives you a sense of how annoying that's got to be for the ladies.

I always seen ladies as the victim of advertising more than men, but it didn't occur to me that constant hyper-masculine imagery could degrade your view of yourself as a man. Makes sense though.

There are also commercials that show men as being emasculated, for instance the one where the guy is carrying the baby around on the chest-strap. So this video might not be an accurate representation of the general attitudes of advertisements.

I've had a girlfriend with an eating disorder and I always wondered how much of that was straight up caused by advertising. The perception that woman are supposed to be so beautiful, perfect 10 models, etc.

Cool video!
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:27 PM   #3
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Default Re: Gender and Advertising

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
Really cool, especially when they switched the gender roles.. really gives you a sense of how annoying that's got to be for the ladies.

The switched roles was entertaining, but I think it lost some of the message by choosing overweight men for the most part (presumably for comedic effect) rather than sticking to model-esque men.

Also, it doesn't take more than a glance to see his stuff on ISH. How many threads do we have objectifying women (I'm not complaining, but that is likely because I have been conditioned to drool over women for their physical beauty), and how often do we see people calling each other gay and implying they aren't manly enough.

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Old 04-26-2013, 08:50 PM   #4
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Default Re: Gender and Advertising

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
Really cool, especially when they switched the gender roles.. really gives you a sense of how annoying that's got to be for the ladies.

I always seen ladies as the victim of advertising more than men, but it didn't occur to me that constant hyper-masculine imagery could degrade your view of yourself as a man. Makes sense though.

There are also commercials that show men as being emasculated, for instance the one where the guy is carrying the baby around on the chest-strap. So this video might not be an accurate representation of the general attitudes of advertisements.

I've had a girlfriend with an eating disorder and I always wondered how much of that was straight up caused by advertising. The perception that woman are supposed to be so beautiful, perfect 10 models, etc.

Cool video!



Ehh.

A million years of evolution is what has caused women to be measured by beauty, and men to be measured by achievement.

Marketing, advertising, media etc. is simply a mirror being held up to the attitudes we've been ingrained with for our entire existence as a species. Sure, it can perpetuate these attitudes further to a degree. But it exists because the attitudes were already in place. That's why its been proven to work. The day after TV was invented, the guy who invented commercials did not say "we live in a world where gender is viewed as equal and symmetrical. my goal is to change that"

come on now.

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Old 04-26-2013, 08:52 PM   #5
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Default Re: Gender and Advertising

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
but that is likely because I have been conditioned to drool over women for their physical beauty)

You have not been "conditioned" by any external forces. That is your brain chemistry.

If we were conditioned to value beautiful women because of the advertising we see, gay men would not exist.
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:59 PM   #6
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Default Re: Gender and Advertising

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSkoolball#52
You have not been "conditioned" by any external forces. That is your brain chemistry.

If we were conditioned to value beautiful women because of the advertising we see, gay men would not exist.

I think there is truth to both. Nature and nurture co-exist. I think the extra objectifying of women, and certain aspects that we objectify and to what extent are definitely influenced by marketing and society. That is why there has been an increase in augmentation, eating disorders, etc.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:08 PM   #7
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Default Re: Gender and Advertising

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
That is why there has been an increase in augmentation, eating disorders, etc.


Ehh, don't agree its as simple as "that is why.."

augmentation is safer and more affordable than it used to be. statistics on eating disorders probably werent kept as accurately, if at all, 50 years ago. things like depression were seen as an excuse not a disorder before generation x.

we've quickly gone from a culture where anything bad that happens to an individual was seen as in some way being their own fault or something they deserved (even to ridiculous and extreme degrees like natural disasters or witch burnings), to a culture where an individual bears NO responsibility for the consequences of their actions, and is the result of 'society' 'government' 'media' or some sort of larger institution who picked on poor lil ol individual (the gen x, spoiled society, democrat propelled victim machine mindset).


It's amazing how quickly the pendulum swings. Was there ever even a decade where we had the right balance?

Last edited by OldSkoolball#52 : 04-26-2013 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:19 PM   #8
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Default Re: Gender and Advertising

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSkoolball#52
Ehh, don't agree its as simple as "that is why.."

augmentation is safer and more affordable than it used to be. statistics on eating disorders probably werent kept as accurately, if at all, 50 years ago. things like depression were seen as an excuse not a disorder before generation x.

we've quickly gone from a culture where anything bad that happens to an individual was seen as in some way being their own fault or something they deserved (even to ridiculous and extreme degrees like natural disasters or witch burnings), to a culture where an individual bears NO responsibility for the consequences of their actions, and is the result of 'society' 'government' 'media' or some sort of larger institution who picked on poor lil ol individual (the gen x, spoiled society, democrat propelled victim machine).


It's amazing how quickly the pendulum swings. Was there ever even a decade where we had the right balance?

It isn't as simple as that, you are right. In fact, after I typed that, I hesitated because I knew I just typed an absolute, but I figured "eh, they will understand what I mean," because it certainly has been an influence.

And in no way am I trying to say society is to blame and the individual has no responsibility. If so, I would have become a sociologist rather than a psychologist.

Either way, I think it is important that we aren't dismissing the influence that society and marketing has on gender. For example, it is one thing for men to be naturally more aggressive than women. But when 1 man is less aggressive, that should not be such a damning thing, but society does mistreat people for not falling into gender norms and will call these men wimps, p*ssies, f@ggots, etc, which is teaching that person it is not OK to be who they as an individual naturally are. Commercials like these play a major role in continuing to accentuate gender expectations. Another obvious one is the eating disorder stuff. It has been shoved down the throats of women that they should be thin. Even when they are beautiful, they often see models who are rail thin and are convinced this is the goal they should be striving for, and a healthy beautiful woman may be influenced into thinking she is not good enough, and men seeing the same images and expressing desire for that increases that message to women.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:21 PM   #9
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Default Re: Gender and Advertising

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSkoolball#52

It's amazing how quickly the pendulum swings. Was there ever even a decade where we had the right balance?

Probably not. We are continuously improving society in some aspects (social justice for race, gender, sexual orientation equality) while decreasing it in others (the idea that women should be ultra skinny has increased throughout the 1900s)
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:50 PM   #10
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Default Re: Gender and Advertising

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
Another obvious one is the eating disorder stuff. It has been shoved down the throats of women that they should be thin. Even when they are beautiful, they often see models who are rail thin and are convinced this is the goal they should be striving for, and a healthy beautiful woman may be influenced into thinking she is not good enough, and men seeing the same images and expressing desire for that increases that message to women.

They're pretty stupid then. It's stupid to ruin your own health just to get some more guys to like you.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:57 PM   #11
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Default Re: Gender and Advertising

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
For example, it is one thing for men to be naturally more aggressive than women. But when 1 man is less aggressive, that should not be such a damning thing, but society does mistreat people for not falling into gender norms and will call these men wimps, p*ssies, f@ggots, etc, which is teaching that person it is not OK to be who they as an individual naturally are. Commercials like these play a major role in continuing to accentuate gender expectations.

I agree with some of this, but at the same time I believe the commercials work because the average person, regardless of how they view themself, is inclined to see a fit woman as hot, and a dominant dude as cool. The advertisers have no actual intent to affect gender identities, they're simply trying to get eyeballs, and playing up how people already feel. They also do things for shock, like put a woman with a beard on a billboard. It's not about an agenda of reinforcing anything. That's really just collateral damage from the goal of creating attention.

For instance, if you had a big nose but did not own a mirror in your home, you'd probably catch a glimpse of it now and then, but not really fixate on it very much because its mostly out of sight and out of mind. Put a mirror in your home, and suddenly your big nose becomes a much bigger preoccupation. The mirror itself is not forcing you to think any particular way. It's basically just a picture of reality, really. How you choose to focus on it is your deal.

People have a perception that news/advertisers/media etc are trying to implant their personal beliefs into you. They don't have time for that. They are trying to make money. They are taking the beliefs you already have, and selling them back to you. It's much quicker that way. So in that sense, I don't think these ads are really even propelling gender stereotypes. They just remind us of them more often because there's more media now. Look how much more equality women have now than in 19-whenever-tv-was-invented. If it was that big of an affect, howd all that progress get made? People think its a big deal now that women believe they're supposed to be pretty? Women were taught to believe that in 1930 as well, but they were also taught they shouldnt drive cars, or they were worthless if they cant cook a decent meal. So to me, this is like "gangsta rap causes violence". Well, violence was a problem before gangsta rap. Gangsta rap was written BECAUSE of the violence people already saw. It may influence a faction of individuals I admit, but it sort of pales in comparison to other factors. And obviously, it doesn't have to be just one thing as you mentioned.


But to me, people make the media a scapegoat too often. Every time a kid goes out there picture is gonna be put up on Facebook for the world to look at whenever they want. No wonder they're more self conscious, or getting boob jobs etc. That's not the media's fault. We're just over-exposed, and over-connected in my opinion. Everything is magnified. So to me, its not about media creating or furthering gender stereotypes. Its basically just 24/7 exposure to the ones that have existed for all of life.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:01 PM   #12
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Default Re: Gender and Advertising

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
Probably not. We are continuously improving society in some aspects (social justice for race, gender, sexual orientation equality) while decreasing it in others (the idea that women should be ultra skinny has increased throughout the 1900s)


Agreed. Not to mention we enable people more these days. Fast food and prescription pills have become America's drugs of choice instead of hard work and church (im not religious, but hard work and church were your only options in 1800, along with alcohol). But hey, let's not hold anyone accountable for the massive cost of Americans' reckless abuse of their own health. Free healthcare for self-desctructives!

Etc. etc.
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:49 AM   #13
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Default Re: Gender and Advertising

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSkoolball#52
I agree with some of this, but at the same time I believe the commercials work because the average person, regardless of how they view themself, is inclined to see a fit woman as hot, and a dominant dude as cool. The advertisers have no actual intent to affect gender identities, they're simply trying to get eyeballs, and playing up how people already feel. They also do things for shock, like put a woman with a beard on a billboard. It's not about an agenda of reinforcing anything. That's really just collateral damage from the goal of creating attention.

For instance, if you had a big nose but did not own a mirror in your home, you'd probably catch a glimpse of it now and then, but not really fixate on it very much because its mostly out of sight and out of mind. Put a mirror in your home, and suddenly your big nose becomes a much bigger preoccupation. The mirror itself is not forcing you to think any particular way. It's basically just a picture of reality, really. How you choose to focus on it is your deal.

People have a perception that news/advertisers/media etc are trying to implant their personal beliefs into you. They don't have time for that. They are trying to make money. They are taking the beliefs you already have, and selling them back to you. It's much quicker that way. So in that sense, I don't think these ads are really even propelling gender stereotypes. They just remind us of them more often because there's more media now. Look how much more equality women have now than in 19-whenever-tv-was-invented. If it was that big of an affect, howd all that progress get made? People think its a big deal now that women believe they're supposed to be pretty? Women were taught to believe that in 1930 as well, but they were also taught they shouldnt drive cars, or they were worthless if they cant cook a decent meal. So to me, this is like "gangsta rap causes violence". Well, violence was a problem before gangsta rap. Gangsta rap was written BECAUSE of the violence people already saw. It may influence a faction of individuals I admit, but it sort of pales in comparison to other factors. And obviously, it doesn't have to be just one thing as you mentioned.


But to me, people make the media a scapegoat too often. Every time a kid goes out there picture is gonna be put up on Facebook for the world to look at whenever they want. No wonder they're more self conscious, or getting boob jobs etc. That's not the media's fault. We're just over-exposed, and over-connected in my opinion. Everything is magnified. So to me, its not about media creating or furthering gender stereotypes. Its basically just 24/7 exposure to the ones that have existed for all of life.


I really like your post, though I think there is an extent where I show more sympathy than you. I'm as big a believer in personal responsibility as anyone, but I can't help but feel bad for girls who are constantly bombarded with gender stereotypes/model looking girls in advertising. Do I want advertising banned, do I want a law to be passed against certain things? No. But to me it's a little distasteful. Just like all these sitcoms with stupid male husbands, or where the black guy is always the cool kid, or where the guy with glasses is the nerd. At some point it becomes a little sickening. Distasteful is really the word that sums up my feelings on it more than anything. Of course these companies are looking to make money, and they don't care if it's tasteful if the ad moves products. I understand that too.
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Old 04-27-2013, 06:43 AM   #14
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Default Re: Gender and Advertising

Just random things I've thought reading this.

Hyper romantic/ Hyper sexualized people/ perceptions of romance are VERY different than they were 50 years ago. Those are different than from 100 years ago. It's not a PROGRESS thing. We're constantly forgetting and re-realizing things that were written and thought of long ago.

To me, history is more of a chaos. We're playing with new instruments that radically alter the way people interact with eachother (like mass media and internet.) I think that's the reality. Seeing modern times as any sort of culmination or final product of anything (history, thought, relationships, GENDER NORMS (that's for Old School 52)) other than new technology is wrong. And tech doesnt change any of the truths that endure through history -- it has REALLY obscured alot of them. People live like now is new. It is sort of but its also not at all.
I think that has alot to do with culture and media.

If you read history, now just seems like chaotic echoes of then.
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Old 04-27-2013, 07:31 AM   #15
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Default Re: Gender and Advertising

It's a really easy case to make, but yet the ads chosen in the video was nit-picked... in order to make a better case in the second part of the video, which I liked.

I think the ads where stereotypical presentation of women as body/object is most prominent in fashion ads (as in the vid, no example of cleaning/housework products pushed by those surreal women), and fashion ads are the area by itself. It presents sort of surreal, not practical world that supposedly is the driving force in consuming, but everybody understands it is not real and not how it is supposed to be. It's strictly club culture, which is not a part of regular life. It's magical how such standards are able to sell products, while being unreal.

However, it might be that some people live in the club culture, and I suspect they become the same carricatures as those ads are.
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