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Old 07-09-2006, 12:18 AM   #1
Bricklayer
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Default Do shooting guards belong in Jazz system?

I've been thinking... is there really a point to having a shooting guard under Sloan's regime? Before y'all fire at me and say, "Duh, did you forget Horny?" let me say Jeff Hornacek was a perfect role player and great shooter. But was he athletic? ha! no. If you look back on all the shooting guards we've had under Sloan, none of them knock your socks off. At all. Jim Les? David Benoit? Bobby Hansen? Pavlovic? Chris Morris anyone? And you've got some decent ones... B-Russ, Raja Bell, Shandon Anderson, Deshawn, Jeff Malone (who had his prime in Philly, not here), and most recently, Snyder. But none of those guys blossomed. Kirk was fairly athletic, but certainly no Kobe. Or even Richard Hamilton. I wonder if we somehow landed a Grant Hill, or T-Mac, or Richard Jefferson, or Paul Pierce... would Sloan make them share the ball and in effect, keep them from playing their individual games? Sloan's philosophy seems to be: the closer the shot, the only shot. Thus, the focus to score is placed more on the big guys. And I worry if Brewer's fate as another average 2 guard on the Jazz was sealed the moment we selected him...
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Old 07-09-2006, 12:57 PM   #2
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I think it is time for Sloan to retire
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Old 07-09-2006, 01:15 PM   #3
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Athleticism is over-rated. I'd rather have a fundamentally sound player who can shoot, hints the name "shooting guard." Hornacek was a great shooting guard for the Jazz. Malone and Bell were good and Harpring is now their listed shooting guard (he's a natural small forward), but is solid. They did rely on the "Mailman's" scoring down low, but never had anyone else along side him who could score. During the trade deadline in 1998 (the 2nd yr. they made the finals) they had a proposed deal of trading Chris Morris and Greg Foster to Orlando for Rony Seikaly. Seikaly failed his physical and Utah canceled the deal. They should have went through with that deal regardless, and if so they would have probably won the finals that year. Seikaly would have gave them their other low post scoring threat (17.3 ppg during that half of the year) and would have taken the double teams away from Malone. I know that was off topic, but I wanted to get that off my chest. As for Sloan, I think he is a great coach. He has a proven resume and is tough. Just because he is old school and runs the team his way doesn't mean he has to retire. The players should listen to him, because he knows exactly what he is doing. I'm not saying athleticism is a bad thing, but it is over-emphasized and fundamentals are under-emphasized. The Jazz will be fine at shooting guard with Harpring and Brewer.
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Old 07-09-2006, 03:34 PM   #4
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Sorry - it was late at night when I started this thread... i forgot to add another crucial part about the kind of shooting guard (the ONLY kind) that does work in the Jazz system. He just has to shoot. That's why Horny was so effective. He never had to take his man one on one. He was a curl-around-the-screen, catch-and-shoot player. Sloan is not the type to isolate his shooting guards for one on one action and let everyone else clear out of the way. He tried that with Kirilenko a few times last year and wasn't too pleased for the most part. This is why i think Redick would've been a better fit than Brewer. Even if Brewer may become the better player on any other team.
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Old 07-10-2006, 03:28 AM   #5
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Sloan wants DEFENCE first. As for Hornacek as I remember, he did more than just spot up and shoot.
He could take guys to the hoop, left or right, put up floaters and shoot off the dribble with one foot.
Athletism is more than just dunking and smarts is a helluva lot more valuable.
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Old 07-10-2006, 12:32 PM   #6
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the Jazz are going no where.
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Old 07-10-2006, 02:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VCDrivesAPorscheToWork
the Jazz are going no where.

Dude... i think it's great you're trying to spark some life into this forum, even if you have to rile us up a bit. But aren't you an intern at some law firm? I thought you guys were supposed to back up outrageous claims. ha. I'd love to hear why you think the Jazz aren't going anywhere tho... especially since we were one of the most improved teams last year and stand a good chance to improve as much this year.
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Old 07-11-2006, 02:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VCDrivesAPorscheToWork
the Jazz are going no where.

Yeah, and I'd take the Jazz frontcourt over the nets anyday. Shoot, I wouldn't want your OLD backcourt either.
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Old 07-11-2006, 07:22 AM   #9
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The JAZZ are going to the play-offs!
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Old 07-11-2006, 11:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bricklayer
Sorry - it was late at night when I started this thread... i forgot to add another crucial part about the kind of shooting guard (the ONLY kind) that does work in the Jazz system. He just has to shoot. That's why Horny was so effective. He never had to take his man one on one. He was a curl-around-the-screen, catch-and-shoot player. Sloan is not the type to isolate his shooting guards for one on one action and let everyone else clear out of the way. He tried that with Kirilenko a few times last year and wasn't too pleased for the most part. This is why i think Redick would've been a better fit than Brewer. Even if Brewer may become the better player on any other team.

I'm not sure about how Brewer will fit in Utah, but I do think that you make a strong point here. The biggest issue that I've seen in the past two years have been with our lack of mid to long range shooters. Sure, there's a few guys who can take and make a spot up 3, but where's the guy that will consistently drop that 20 footer? Giricek should be that guy, but instead he is overwhelmed with the idea that he's going to slash his way to the basket. That would be great if he could somehow manage to hold on to the ball while he did it. I've never seen someone successfully cut to the hoop if they can't continue to dribble while he does it. One hope I have for Brewer as well as possibly Dee Brown is that these guys will be able to accept the role of a shooter, and possibly add some slash in/kick out opportunities.
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Old 07-11-2006, 12:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seldom.Seen
........... I've never seen someone successfully cut to the hoop if they can't continue to dribble while he does it. One hope I have for Brewer as well as possibly Dee Brown is that these guys will be able to accept the role of a shooter, and possibly add some slash in/kick out opportunities.


I think both of those guys have the ability to do that and it would be a sound addition to the Jazz 'offense'. I believe if Stockton was a little more aggressive with his shots, there would be at least one championship banner in the Delta Center.
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