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Old 08-16-2007, 03:34 PM   #1
Phenom
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Default if you think that the Mavs would be better off

Without Dirk? State your argument here.
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Old 08-16-2007, 08:41 PM   #2
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Default Re: if you think that the Mavs would be better off

Well Bats, I'm not ready to give up on him yet. I know that's not what you're looking for here. But I still think the team is better with him. A center that's not a liability on offense. And a shooting guard that can defend the perimeter as well as consistantly hit the open shot and most won't even think of getting rid of him. This is not to bash the other players, but to say they really could use help in a couple of areas.
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Old 08-17-2007, 02:31 PM   #3
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Default Re: if you think that the Mavs would be better off

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Originally Posted by Silent Mav
Well Bats, I'm not ready to give up on him yet. I know that's not what you're looking for here. But I still think the team is better with him. A center that's not a liability on offense. And a shooting guard that can defend the perimeter as well as consistantly hit the open shot and most won't even think of getting rid of him. This is not to bash the other players, but to say they really could use help in a couple of areas.

I think between Terry, Howard, and Stack we have the perimeter shooters. Howard, EJ, George and Harris should be fine playing defense on the perimeter also. I think the offensive center would put us over the top.
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:52 PM   #4
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Default Re: if you think that the Mavs would be better off

Good to see that we still have a faithful few who doesn't want the captain to walk the plank. Here! Here!
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Old 08-18-2007, 01:51 PM   #5
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Default Re: if you think that the Mavs would be better off

But you see Al, I'd like one player who can do both. And the only one you have listed like that is Howard. And he's the sf. I also wish Josh would get back to attacking the basket more. I'm afraid he's starting to fall in love with the jumper. I don't want him to stop taking them, just go inside more like he used to. Ager really needs to step it up. He didn't show much last year. And I thought he should've done more in the summer league. Rayshawn Terry intrigues me. But knowing how Avery doesn't like to give rookies much burn. I don't have much hope of seeing what he can do this year.
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Old 08-19-2007, 10:57 PM   #6
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Default Re: if you think that the Mavs would be better off

better off? Like if he traded him or released him
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Old 08-20-2007, 10:15 AM   #7
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Default Re: if you think that the Mavs would be better off

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Originally Posted by Silent Mav
But you see Al, I'd like one player who can do both. And the only one you have listed like that is Howard. And he's the sf. I also wish Josh would get back to attacking the basket more. I'm afraid he's starting to fall in love with the jumper. I don't want him to stop taking them, just go inside more like he used to. Ager really needs to step it up. He didn't show much last year. And I thought he should've done more in the summer league. Rayshawn Terry intrigues me. But knowing how Avery doesn't like to give rookies much burn. I don't have much hope of seeing what he can do this year.

When you say you would like a player who can do both, what exactly do you mean? A shooter that can defend the perimeter or a center that can score?

I think we have good defensive shooters in JHo, EJ, and Terry (and Harris is coming along on his shot and can play D).

Centers that can score (significant scoring ~15+ ) are rare and would require giving up Dirk or JHo. If we give up JHo then we weaken the shooter/perimeter defense, if we give up Dirk, we better get an MVP caliber center and I just don't see those available.

Instead, we could get a more offensive minded center that could give us around 8-10 pts a game and probably keep both JHo and Dirk. Damp was supposed to be this person but we all see how that has panned out thus far. Maybe we will catch lightning in a bottle this year and Damp will return to his old Golden State-contract year ways.
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Old 08-20-2007, 05:11 PM   #8
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Default Re: if you think that the Mavs would be better off

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Originally Posted by BigAl
I think we have good defensive shooters in JHo, EJ, and Terry (and Harris is coming along on his shot and can play D).


Terry is a terrible defender. He can't keep his man in front of him to save his life and he also has a lot of trouble fighting though screens. He is also a streaky shooter and doesn't run offense well. If his shots aren't falling, he is fairly useless on the court. he should be a 6th man, not the #3 scoring option.

Jones is old and well past his prime. His D is about Buckners level. He is a smarter offensive player though so that should help a little. He was awful for Memphis last year though. Was the one burst in Miami in the regular season all he had left?

Josh has been slipping on D IMO. He is actually really starting to remind me of how Finley developed. A good defender that attacked the basket that started slacking and fell in love with the jumper. He still has issues with his shot selection and his decision making on the break has not improved at all. Despite these faults, he is a very good player that I'm happy to have. Hopefully he improves his overall game this year and takes that step.


However, those weaknesses would be tempered if the Mavs could get a legit staring SG. Say Ricky Davis for example. A dude that slashes, defends big Gs and can hit the 3 is what they need. Howard needs a defensive tag parter. Its not gonna be Dirk or Damp helping him on the perimeter and the Terry/Harris combo is death for the Mavs defensively against teams with big guards. They must get a proper SG.
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Old 08-20-2007, 06:06 PM   #9
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Default Re: if you think that the Mavs would be better off

Kent pretty much sums up what I was going to say. I'd like a shooting guard that can play perimeter D. Ricky Davis would be nice to put in that role. With the glut of players the Wolves have, I wonder if any inquiries have been made. Even looking into Mo Pete would've been nice. With Brand out and the Clipps season pretty much in the tank, I'd ask about Maggette as well.

It would be nice to have someone with more consistant offense when paired with Devin's defense, that could also defend when in with Jet. Because Jet's defense looks worse each season. And it wasn't good to start with.

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Old 08-20-2007, 10:45 PM   #10
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Default Re: if you think that the Mavs would be better off

But isn't this thread about the concept of trading Dirk to further the team?


Someone mentioned getting a more offensive minded center....but I dont think there are any available for Dirk. You guys are stating to get more perimeter defender/shooters. So we give up Dirk for which one(s)?

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Old 08-21-2007, 09:25 AM   #11
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Default Re: if you think that the Mavs would be better off

I'm not one of those that thinks we need to trade Dirk. So I hijacked Phenom's thread with what I'd like to do and keep him. If I was going to trade Dirk, it would have to be for a lot more than a swingman and offensive center. Unless they were some really big names.
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Old 08-21-2007, 09:57 AM   #12
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Default Re: if you think that the Mavs would be better off

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Originally Posted by Silent Mav
I'm not one of those that thinks we need to trade Dirk. So I hijacked Phenom's thread with what I'd like to do and keep him. If I was going to trade Dirk, it would have to be for a lot more than a swingman and offensive center. Unless they were some really big names.

I definitely agree with this. I think it would be nice to have an offensive center and another swingman, but not at the cost of Dirk....unless the names were VERY significant.

Having said this, I think this is why PJ Brown and Webber are on the radar. Low-post scoring that doesn't break the bank.
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:09 AM   #13
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Default Re: if you think that the Mavs would be better off

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Originally Posted by Silent Mav
I'm not one of those that thinks we need to trade Dirk. So I hijacked Phenom's thread with what I'd like to do and keep him. If I was going to trade Dirk, it would have to be for a lot more than a swingman and offensive center. Unless they were some really big names.

I wouldn't trade Dirk for Michael Redd and Andrew Bogut. That's how highly I think of Dirk. I just really wish Avery would unleash him on offense more. Kobe may be the best offensive player in the game, but Dirk is pretty much unstoppable from an opponent's standpoint once he has it going.
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Old 08-22-2007, 04:39 AM   #14
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Default Re: if you think that the Mavs would be better off

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I wouldn't trade Dirk for Michael Redd and Andrew Bogut. That's how highly I think of Dirk.
People who dont think highly of Dirk wouldnt do that
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:17 PM   #15
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Default Re: if you think that the Mavs would be better off

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People who dont think highly of Dirk wouldnt do that

That's the only big man/All Star worthy guard combo I could think of off the top of my head.

I wouldn't trade him for Tim Duncan and Tony Parker. Just for the simple fact I'd hate to see Parker in a Mavericks jersey.
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