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Old 08-26-2007, 08:03 AM   #1
adamcz
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Default Franchise Players

A franchise player is a player worth building around, because they can possibly help you win a championship one day. Making personnel decisions around one guy is something NBA teams don't (or shouldn't) take lightly, because the moment you factor in team needs in a draft pick or trade, you're accepting the fact that you won't get the best talent available. Not every team has a franchise player. If you can be reasonably sure that the player will never lead the team to a title, he is not a franchise player. So by definition, the guy must be young and improving, or if he's old, already good enough to maybe win a title.

The veterans who are championship level guys right now:

Duncan
Kobe
Dirk
KG
Lebron

The guys who have a chance to get there

Wade
Yao
Oden
Durant
Amare
Howard
Bosh
Jefferson
Anthony

Guys who are good players but will never lead a team to a title, and are thus not franchise players:

Redd
Arenas
Pierce
Gasol
Brand
Marion
Curry
Kidd
Johnson
McGrady

Please add to the lists. My point is that you shouldn't build around players who are not franchise players, and lots of teams don't have one.
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Old 08-26-2007, 08:15 AM   #2
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Default Re: Franchise Players

If players like Oden, Amare, Howard, Jefferson and Anthony have a chance to get there, so does Okafor.

Also, I guess you could put Kobe and KG up there, but I wouldn't. They weren't that good this last season.

And Nash deserves a mention in the bottom list at least.
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Old 08-26-2007, 08:18 AM   #3
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Default Re: Franchise Players

As much as I hate to admit it, Gasol is in the right list. He puts up decent numbers but not championship calibur numbers and that just isn't good enough, especially since he has a pretty poor team around him.
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Old 08-26-2007, 08:22 AM   #4
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Default Re: Franchise Players

Kobe is not a franchise player. Chicago do not have a franchise player and have built a (reasonably) balanced roster of excellent role players. If we got Kobe, I would be devistated.
I also don't see building around one player as the best way to go. There is plenty of time to cop a season ending injury in the NBA, and if everything is revolving around one player and he can't suit up, you're almost definately screwed.

BTW, interesting thread
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Old 08-26-2007, 08:35 AM   #5
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Default Re: Franchise Players

Im curious how Lebron is is the top list, yet Wade is in the bottom half.

I highly doubt the Cavs will be back in the ECF not only this year, but for many years to come. I do agree he can be built around, but I think Cle. has yet to add players to compliment his play.

And is Wade in the bottom half due to his injury? Otherwise Id say he's already Championship level.
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Old 08-26-2007, 08:38 AM   #6
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Default Re: Franchise Players

For replies and already two people saying that Kobe is not a franchise player. Are you guys kidding, or just trolls trying to turn every thread into a Kobe debate?
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Old 08-26-2007, 08:47 AM   #7
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Default Re: Franchise Players

Where would Nash fall on your list. I don't see him up ther now, so it makes me think where should he go? He is getting old now so I think the chances of him winning a title are getting smaller by the season. But he definitly isn't out of the talk just yet, so I think he should be just in between the 2nd and 3rd category.
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Old 08-26-2007, 08:51 AM   #8
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Default Re: Franchise Players

Nash isn't getting any better in the future, so he has to be either in the first or third category. I'm not sure what the answer is, and he's one of my favorite players. When you look at the guys in the past who have won titles - Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, Jordan, Bird, Magic.... he's not one of those guys. But paired up with two or three other all-stars? The Suns seem like a legit contendor to me. I guess I've got no problem putting Nash up top.
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Old 08-26-2007, 10:27 AM   #9
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Default Re: Franchise Players

Not a troll at all, I respect Kobes abilities, but he can't seem to carry a team, is a constant disruption with his trade demands due to lack of team success, and he hasn't made his teammates better. He is an excellent second-fiddle, but as of yet (this may change as he is now reaching his true prime), he hasn't been able to carry anything. You mentioned Kidd as a good player, but not a franchise player and this is where I see Kobe. Kidd is an all time great, as will be Kobe, but I think they are both players that are better off being pieces of a larger puzzle. Stockton would not be half as great without Malone, Jordan didn't win anything until Pippen emerged, Kidd and Kobe need some decent help, then they will be franchise players. Strictly MY opinion.
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Old 08-26-2007, 10:32 AM   #10
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Default Re: Franchise Players

Nash = Leader
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Old 08-26-2007, 10:40 AM   #11
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Default Re: Franchise Players

What has Bryant done to show himself to be a franchise player for a Champ? Shaq was the main man on that Laker three-peat and since he's been gone it's been first round or nothing. At least Wade won a Finals MVP over O'Neal.
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Old 08-26-2007, 11:13 AM   #12
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Default Re: Franchise Players

Just because a player doesn't get to the championship doesn't mean they are not a franchise player. How is Kidd not a franchise player? Close running-up MVP, made it to the Finals twice in a row, and has never been on a losing team. He was franchise gold. Would you say Reggie Miller wasn't a franchise player, or Karl or Stock? The only reason the Nets didn't win was because the opposing teams just flat out player better basketball, not because Kidd wasn't a franchise player. And how does Amare have a shot of getting there, Marion doesn't, and Nash, who's the leader of their title contention team, is not even on the list? I don't get it. But if you ask me, I don't think I could build a team around any of those three guys, but they just happen to fall in the right situation with the trade a few years ago.

Lebron is a definate franchise player. Any GM would be a fool not to built a team with him getting as much room to lead as possible.

Wade is another one up there now. He's come into his own as a franchise player. I think it will be necessary, too, because I think the Heat will have to revamp their cast soon.

KG and Duncan were always franchise players, period.

Dirk and Yao also have developed into legit frachise players. I think they both have the ability to lead a lead team with the right cast (c'mon Dirk), McGrady's also now in that conversation.

Bosh is a great player to build around. His game keeps inproving and he keep proving himself gradually as a leader. Hopefully he will draw in a title contending team in the future.

Melo is also a great player to built around. He's a player who will be player at the level he's at now for a number of years. He has a good cast now, but will need chemisty work in order to make a title run.

Those I think are the best frachise players today.

Sidenote: @ Steve Francis's old nickname, "Franchise".
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Old 08-26-2007, 11:17 AM   #13
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Default Re: Franchise Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawsey6
Just because a player doesn't get to the championship doesn't mean they are not a franchise player. How is Kidd not a franchise player? Close running-up MVP, made it to the Finals twice in a row, and has never been on a losing team. He was franchise gold. Would you say Reggie Miller wasn't a franchise player, or Karl or Stock? The only reason the Nets didn't win was because the opposing teams just flat out player better basketball, not because Kidd wasn't a franchise player. And how does Amare have a shot of getting there, Marion doesn't, and Nash, who's the leader of their title contention team, is not even on the list? I don't get it. But if you ask me, I don't think I could build a team around any of those three guys, but they just happen to fall in the right situation with the trade a few years ago.

Lebron is a definate franchise player. Any GM would be a fool not to built a team with him getting as much room to lead as possible.

Wade is another one up there now. He's come into his own as a franchise player. I think it will be necessary, too, because I think the Heat will have to revamp their cast soon.

KG and Duncan were always franchise players, period.

Dirk and Yao also have developed into legit frachise players. I think they both have the ability to lead a lead team with the right cast (c'mon Dirk), McGrady's also now in that conversation.

Bosh is a great player to build around. His game keeps inproving and he keep proving himself gradually as a leader. Hopefully he will draw in a title contending team in the future.

Melo is also a great player to built around. He's a player who will be player at the level he's at now for a number of years. He has a good cast now, but will need chemisty work in order to make a title run.

Those I think are the best frachise players today.

Sidenote: @ Steve Francis's old nickname, "Franchise".

Agreed with everything there.
Damn, it kinda sucks that AI is not a franchise player no more. He'll still be doin his thing in denver i guess.
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Old 08-26-2007, 11:26 AM   #14
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Default Re: Franchise Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodonpa
Agreed with everything there.
Damn, it kinda sucks that AI is not a franchise player no more. He'll still be doin his thing in denver i guess.

He definately was one, based on his overall abilities, but he's getting into the fit of the role player, which i excepted him to around this time, I was just wondering what team...
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Old 08-26-2007, 11:32 AM   #15
adamcz
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Default Re: Franchise Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
What has Bryant done to show himself to be a franchise player for a Champ? Shaq was the main man on that Laker three-peat and since he's been gone it's been first round or nothing. At least Wade won a Finals MVP over O'Neal.
Don't be dumb. Kobe is the best or second best player on earth, and everybody and their mother knows it. People complain about the number of "Person X says Kobe is the best" threads we have, but apparently we don't have enough of them, since many don't think he's even a franchise player. When Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Lebron James, etc, etc think you're the best player alive, then you get to be on my list of franchise players. I can't believe this is a point of debate whith anybody who considers themself a basketball fan.

So those of you who are sick of threads saying that Kobe is a great player - use this thread as exhibit A as to why they're neccesary.
Quote:
How is Kidd not a franchise player? Close running-up MVP, made it to the Finals twice in a row, and has never been on a losing team.
Kidd certainly was a franchise player, but I wouldn't call him that anymore. He won't win you the title this year, and he's just too old to build around. If you're the Nets brass, you don't make any decisions based on who fits in well with Kidd, unless they have really short contracts, because time is basically out.
Quote:
Would you say Reggie Miller wasn't a franchise player, or Karl or Stock?
Don't know about Miller and Stockton, but Malone was certainly a franchise player. He was undebatebly the kind of guy who could have won it all. It's smart to build around guys like that.
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